Ehorsex

[bigmack]

Pardon my ignorance. Could someone explain how to decipher this and how the payout for Pawnee compares to track payout?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/7_30_08_15_40_54.png
Ehorsex payout

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/7_30_08_15_41_26.png
Track payout

[DJofSD]

I think the 10.4 means for $1 offered you get $10.40 back, or, for a $2 win bet your ticket pays $20.80 or more than the on track win.

But then I'm just reading the FAQ page, so what to do know?

[ezrabrooks]

..

[Dave Schwartz]

Are they "legal?" (I assume not.)

Where are they located?

How does one fund such an account?

[DJofSD]

https://www.ehorsex.com/banking_info.html

1st 3 listed says those are the options available for US.

[Charlie D]

Hi bigmack

What you see are the requests of Exhorse clients

10.4
$33

I want to lay the horse at these odds




11.2
$20

I am requesting a back at these odds





The tote price is bettter because of lack of liquidity on the exchange

If it's legal get stuck in, if more people use it, it will create more liquidity, more liquidity creates better prices



Hope this helps

[bigmack]

Hope this helps
It sure does, CD. Thanks to DJ as well.

Much obliged.

[Rook]

The 10.4 is a misleading payout because it does not reflect the commission which starts at 5%. So the conventional pari-mutual odds are 8.88 to 1.

[bigmack]

The 10.4 is a misleading payout because it does not reflect the commission which starts at 5%. So the conventional pari-mutual odds are 8.88 to 1.
Starts or finishes, Rook? From their FAQ:

The exchange makes money by charging a small commission on net winnings on each market. The commission rate is between 1.75% - 5% depending on the amount of risk the customer puts through the exchange. There is never a commission charged on a market with a net loss. Your net profit or net loss on an entrant in a market is displayed beneath the entrant name.

[Charlie D]

This is hours before the race, but here iswhat it could look like if more people used it




If you can and do use it, remember there are cheats out there who will try to take advantage of you


Left side, requests to lay ----- right side, requests to back

[Rook]

Starts or finishes, Rook? From their FAQ:

The exchange makes money by charging a small commission on net winnings on each market. The commission rate is between 1.75% - 5% depending on the amount of risk the customer puts through the exchange. There is never a commission charged on a market with a net loss. Your net profit or net loss on an entrant in a market is displayed beneath the entrant name.

Do the math at how much money you would have to bet in order to get to and keep a 1.75% rate. In order to get to that you would need to earn 20,000 commision points which would require $1 million in bets. While you are working towards that lofty goal, they are lopping off 12% of your points each week. So if you bet $1 million in a week:eek: , you would need to risk $120,000 the 2nd week just to stay at the top level. Good luck with that. 5% is where the vast majority of the people are going to be around especially with their limited liquidity.

[HUSKER55]

I am having trouble following this. Can anybody recommend a book on this topic that I could study? The back, the lay and etc, all of it.

thanks

husker55

[bigmack]

Do the math
The fact remains that it doesn't start @ 5% as you indicated. 5% is the max.

[Rook]

The fact remains that it doesn't start @ 5% as you indicated. 5% is the max.

The fact remains that in order to have a rebate as low as 4%, you have to bet $17,600 a week. I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of people are going to start at a betting pace that is considerably smaller than that. Let us know when you have found the person who is able to get to the 1.75% that you laughably brought up.

[bigmack]

Let us know when you have found the person who is able to get to the 1.75% that you laughably brought up.
Let's review my post:
From their FAQ:

The exchange makes money by charging a small commission on net winnings on each market. The commission rate is between 1.75% - 5% depending on the amount of risk the customer puts through the exchange. There is never a commission charged on a market with a net loss. Your net profit or net loss on an entrant in a market is displayed beneath the entrant name.
It was cut & pasted from Ehorsex FAQ. Laugh loud so they can hear you in Costa Rica as they're the ones "who laughably brought it up".

So we're clear, 5% is the max. It doesn't start there. Why you're jaggin' about 1.75, I haven't a clue.

[Rook]

Laugh loud so they can hear you in Costa Rica as they're the ones "who laughably brought it up".


They didn't bring it up on the PA board. You did. Why you are defending a company that has a hard time writing a cheque for $20k is beyond me. You should know better than to act as a stooge for a Mickey Mouse company by pasting their bogus propaganda.


So we're clear, 5% is the max. It doesn't start there.

So we're clear, 5% is where the vast majority of people are going to be betting when they start getting serious about ehorsex. If you think the typical person is going to be paying less than or equal to 4% of the commission then you better talk to Ian of PTC about what the average weekly handle is for the horseplayer.

I never said 5% is the minimum. I used the word start because that is the rate (give or take a few tenths of a percent) that someone who has spent a few months getting his toes wet is going to be playing at. How do I know? Because I speak from personal experience.

[bigmack]

They didn't bring it up on the PA board. You did. Why you are defending a company that has a hard time writing a cheque for $20k is beyond me. You should know better than to act as a stooge for a Mickey Mouse company by pasting their bogus propaganda.
Uh-huh.

Listen, I'm gonna get back to planet earth now. Have a good voyage. :eek:

[Rook]

Uh-huh.

Listen, I'm gonna get back to planet earth now. Have a good voyage. :eek:

Send word through NASA when you've reached that 1.75% rate. We'll have a party for you.

[bigmack]

Send word through NASA when you've reached that 1.75% rate. We'll have a party for you.
Uh-huh.

Years ago a brokerage firm screwed me out of adult dollars. Shortly thereafter I was at gathering and someone said something good about the firm and quoted the company policy they had read in the newspaper.

I wanted to beat the shit out of 'em, but then I thought.... Nah, I'd be nuts and it's what's commonly referred to as irrational thought.

[Rook]

Uh-huh.

Years ago a brokerage firm screwed me out of adult dollars. Shortly thereafter I was at gathering and someone said something good about the firm and quoted the company policy they had read in the newspaper.

I wanted to beat the shit out of 'em, but then I thought.... Nah, I'd be nuts and it's what's commonly referred to as irrational thought.

Nice to see you made it back safely from your ship.:cool: We were all worried about you. Being alone in space can make people prone to those irrational thoughts.

[highnote]

This is hours before the race, but here iswhat it could look like if more people used it




If you can and do use it, remember there are cheats out there who will try to take advantage of you


Left side, requests to lay ----- right side, requests to back


What do you mean "cheats can take advantage of you"? If a person makes a bet and you take the other side I don't see where there is any cheating? Am I missing something?

[highnote]

Do the math at how much money you would have to bet in order to get to and keep a 1.75% rate. In order to get to that you would need to earn 20,000 commision points which would require $1 million in bets. While you are working towards that lofty goal, they are lopping off 12% of your points each week. So if you bet $1 million in a week:eek: , you would need to risk $120,000 the 2nd week just to stay at the top level. Good luck with that. 5% is where the vast majority of the people are going to be around especially with their limited liquidity.


I haven't done all the math, but intuitively, Rook, it seems like it wouldn't be too hard to qualify for lower commissions.

If a bettor is regularly backing and laying multiple horses in a race throughout the betting period, it is possible to send in a lot of money with very little risk. In fact, the best bettors are able to work themselves into a risk-free arbitrage position before the end of the period. They may have bet a thousand dollars and are guaranteed $10 profit no matter what the outcome, for example. I've done it myself many times.

I know of bettors who bet hundreds of thousands of dollars during the course of a soccer match using in-play betting. They may only make a few hundred at the end of the match, but they've arbed over 100 thousand.

Some bettors do cross exchange arbitrage.

Some bettors have sophisticated software to do the betting for them using technical indicators.

When you're backing and laying and adding to your positions during the course of wagering to increase your profit and lower your risk, it doesn't take long to churn a lot of money.

[Mil Mascaras]

Are they "legal?" (I assume not.)

Where are they located?

How does one fund such an account?

Legal? It depends where you're located. I don't believe it's legal for you in Nevada to even use Youbet or Xpressbet? Remember, there's more to the world than just the United States.

[Mil Mascaras]

I am having trouble following this. Can anybody recommend a book on this topic that I could study? The back, the lay and etc, all of it.

thanks

husker55


Do some searches on BetFair - they are the largest exchange. In the past I've even some videos posted on Youtube about using BetFair.

[Tom Barrister]

The 10.40 and 11.20 are the Buy and Sell prices.

Anybody who wants to play the horse to win can get a total of 10.4 for each unit (dollar), or 9.4-1 odds. Anybody who wants to play the horse to LOSE must lay 11.2 for each unit wagered, or 10.2-1 odds.

I haven't used EHorseX since 2002 or so, but as I remember, the winning wager is subject to a 1.75-5% tax on the winnings (not on the total wager). Therefore, a player betting to win would pay 5% of the 9.4 winnings, effectively getting 8.93-1 odds (9.93 payout). A player betting to lose, would pay 5% on the one unit won, effectively laying 10.2-0.95, or 10.74 to 1 (11.74 payout).

When I played there, EHorseX was loaded with race-fixers, druggists, etc.---especially on the Kentucky tracks (and especially Churchill and Ellis). If you play there, beware of any obvious bargain "lays" (offers to lay odds that are lower than the horse's track odds). If you try to bet the horse on-track, hoping for a nice middle, you'll usually end up with a nice mess, instead. The horse in question usally will end up getting bet way down at the track near post time, and you'll be stuck with a no-win situation.

[Rook]

I haven't done all the math, but intuitively, Rook, it seems like it wouldn't be too hard to qualify for lower commissions.

If a bettor is regularly backing and laying multiple horses in a race throughout the betting period, it is possible to send in a lot of money with very little risk. In fact, the best bettors are able to work themselves into a risk-free arbitrage position before the end of the period. They may have bet a thousand dollars and are guaranteed $10 profit no matter what the outcome, for example.

John, intuition isn't as good as experience or even reading their rules carefully. You don't get lower commissions by following the strategy you described. You only get their points by putting money at risk. If you bet thousands of dollars betting multiple horses with a guaranteed profit, you get 0 discount rate points.

[Cangamble]

John, intuition isn't as good as experience or even reading their rules carefully. You don't get lower commissions by following the strategy you described. You only get their points by putting money at risk. If you bet thousands of dollars betting multiple horses with a guaranteed profit, you get 0 discount rate points.
I got my commission down to 2.5% on Betfair within a month of heavy play.
If I remember correctly, I risked around $4000 a day.

[highnote]

John, intuition isn't as good as experience or even reading their rules carefully. You don't get lower commissions by following the strategy you described. You only get their points by putting money at risk. If you bet thousands of dollars betting multiple horses with a guaranteed profit, you get 0 discount rate points.


It always a good idea to know the rules!

[Mil Mascaras]

Do the math at how much money you would have to bet in order to get to and keep a 1.75% rate. In order to get to that you would need to earn 20,000 commision points which would require $1 million in bets. While you are working towards that lofty goal, they are lopping off 12% of your points each week. So if you bet $1 million in a week:eek: , you would need to risk $120,000 the 2nd week just to stay at the top level. Good luck with that. 5% is where the vast majority of the people are going to be around especially with their limited liquidity.

I would suggest you re-examine the scales upon how points are accumulated and re-do the math. What you've stated above is incorrect.

[Mil Mascaras]

The fact remains that in order to have a rebate as low as 4%, you have to bet $17,600 a week. .


Incorrect "fact".

[highnote]

This link should answer the commission questions.

https://www.ehorsex.com/chart_commission.html

ROOK:
John, intuition isn't as good as experience or even reading their rules carefully. You don't get lower commissions by following the strategy you described. You only get their points by putting money at risk. If you bet thousands of dollars betting multiple horses with a guaranteed profit, you get 0 discount rate points.

So if I come in and provide liquidity to the market by betting thousands per day -- and all my bets are arbitrage bets where my downside is zero -- I earn no commission points to help increase my commission?

Seems to me there should be a reward for providing liquidity. Are you sure there isn't?

[Rook]

I would suggest you re-examine the scales upon how points are accumulated and re-do the math. What you've stated above is incorrect.

Why don't you provide the math about how "easy" it is to get to the 1.75% level? From the ehorsex chart, it requires 20,000 points which takes a million dollars of risk. When you have obtained that 20,000 points, you will lose 2,400 points (12%) the following week which requires $120,000 of risk to earn back.

I was mistaken about the weekly level it would require to maintain 4% however, so we are both 1 of 2.

One thing I think we can all agree on is that ehorsex has a policy that is as clear as mud.

[Rook]

Seems to me there should be a reward for providing liquidity. Are you sure there isn't?

Yes, I am sure there isn't. The key phrase in their rules is: For every $50.00 worth of risk, on any market, you will earn 1 commission point.

[highnote]

One thing I think we can all agree on is that ehorsex has a policy that is as clear as mud.


It is a little confusing and not "intuitive". LOL

But if one is smart enough to win at the ponies then he can probably figure out the incentive scale.

[Rook]

It is a little confusing and not "intuitive". LOL

But if one is smart enough to win at the ponies then he can probably figure out the incentive scale.

One thing I was smart enough to figure out is that this company doesn't have enough money in the bank to be a reliable sportsbook. They delayed payment of my $20k withdrawal like it was the last dime they had. Needless to say, I was relieved when the money finally arrived.

[toetoe]

I'll stick with my Winnie the Pooh porn site --- Eeyoresex. :cool:

[bigmack]

One thing I was smart enough to figure out is that this company doesn't have enough money in the bank to be a reliable sportsbook. They delayed payment of my $20k withdrawal like it was the last dime they had. Needless to say, I was relieved when the money finally arrived.
I can empathize with your ill-will with a book reluctant to pay as I've had it happen. I don't know your circumstances but my withdrawals, which have been 5 figures a number of times, have been prompt. I've had an account with them since '02. They get a B- from SBR: Review (http://www.sportsbookreview.com/SR.aspx?s=ehorse)

I don't hawk for anyone/thing but your experience may have been more of an exception than the rule though your frustration was/is understandable.

[Rook]

They had a grade of C+ when I had problems with them and B- is still not a ringing endorsement. My feeling is if a sportsbook screws around with a customer, they deserve negative publicity. When a company like PTC comes around, they deserve all the praise in the world.

Here is a sample of the sort of excuses I got from ehorse last December:
---------------------------------------------
I checked with accounting and management about your bank wire payout.They tell me you should be getting that by the beginning of January. We have been getting restricted on the amount of wire payouts we can send, that has been the reason for the delay.
Regards
Erick
Customer Service

Thank you for getting back to me. I am disappointed to hear this news. On December 3rd, I was told it would arrive "any day now". I have already waited 32 days for the wire and expecting me to wait another few weeks, really pushes this into an area of terrible customer service. If bank wires are such a problem then certified cheques should be an alternative for customers.

I understand your frustration, but unfortunately we can not send a check for more than $4500
( and that is one check per customer ).
Also by being offshore, we do have restrictions on the amount of payouts via check and bank wire we can send out.
Regards
Erick
---------------------------------
Somehow, as soon as SBR looked into it, these restrictions disappeared. If you have never had to deal with customer service like this, consider yourself fortunate. From my perspective, I stand by my description of them as a Mickey Mouse operation.

[Mil Mascaras]

Why don't you provide the math about how "easy" it is to get to the 1.75% level? From the ehorsex chart, it requires 20,000 points which takes a million dollars of risk. When you have obtained that 20,000 points, you will lose 2,400 points (12%) the following week which requires $120,000 of risk to earn back.

I was mistaken about the weekly level it would require to maintain 4% however, so we are both 1 of 2.

One thing I think we can all agree on is that ehorsex has a policy that is as clear as mud.

I never stated anything about "easy" or getting to the 1.75% level. Perhaps you've confused me with another poster.

I simply said your figures are incorrect. You continually spew that it takes a million dollars of risk to obtain 20,000 points- that is totally incorrect. I suggest you do your homework.

[Rook]

I simply said your figures are incorrect. You continually spew that it takes a million dollars of risk to obtain 20,000 points- that is totally incorrect. I suggest you do your homework.

When I did my homework back in elementary school, I learned that 20,000 times 50 equals 1 million. Perhaps you went to a school that taught "new" math?

[Mil Mascaras]

When I did my homework back in elementary school, I learned that 20,000 times 50 equals 1 million. Perhaps you went to a school that taught "new" math?

Your math is correct it's just the figures you're using are incorrect.

Perhaps someone else may be so kind as to give you the solution.

[Rook]

Your math is correct it's just the figures you're using are incorrect.

Perhaps someone else may be so kind as to give you the solution.

Why should it be someone else? This is your chance to be Sherlock.:jump: If your argument is that ehorse generously provides you with 424 points to start, then I'm going to be disappointed since that is chump change compared to the 2400 they will take away due to "decay".

[Mil Mascaras]

Why should it be someone else? This is your chance to be Sherlock.:jump: If your argument is that ehorse generously provides you with 424 points to start, then I'm going to be disappointed since that is chump change compared to the 2400 they will take away due to "decay".

My argument is not that they provide you with X number of points. If you started out with 0 points the end result is still the same.

I'm already catching enough grief from others on here for even responding to your basic error.

Therefore, it will have to be someone else - because in this game (whether it's pari-mutel, any book or any exchange) it's me vs you. If you can't figure this one out then all the better for those of us that do understand it.

[Rook]

Therefore, it will have to be someone else - because in this game (whether it's pari-mutel, any book or any exchange) it's me vs you. If you can't figure this one out then all the better for those of us that do understand it.

It's of no practical concern to me whether or not I have it figured out since I would never entrust another dime of my money with ehorse.

As far as someone else stepping up to argue your moronic point, it must be pretty sad to sit around and hope that someone comes forth that is both dumb and possesses the tiniest shred of courage which you haven't been able to muster.

[Mil Mascaras]

It's of no practical concern to me whether or not I have it figured out since I would never entrust another dime of my money with ehorse.

As far as someone else stepping up to argue your moronic point, it must be pretty sad to sit around and hope that someone comes forth that is both dumb and possesses the tiniest shred of courage which you haven't been able to muster.


Your personal attacks towards both myself and others are completely unwarranted. Good luck at the races.

[Rook]

Your personal attacks towards both myself and others are completely unwarranted. Good luck at the races.

Anybody that comes on and claims that someone is wrong without providing proof is quite simply a troll. Good luck with all aspects of life.

[Mil Mascaras]

Anybody that comes on and claims that someone is wrong without providing proof is quite simply a troll. Good luck with all aspects of life.

Obviously, I could respond again to the personal attacks with one of my own. It's simply not necessary. Your responses will allow others to make thier own judgements.

This thread has become completely non-productive at this point. Based upon the private messaging I've had with others they understand the error you made in your calcuations. Perhaps that's the reason no one else has contributed to this topic.

Taking any addtional time to explain the process to someone who no longer and has no future plans to utlize the service is a futile task.

FYI, I no longer utilize the service either. I use BetFair.

[Rook]

This thread has become completely non-productive at this point.

This thread became completely non-productive the minute you started asking other people to explain your position. Better luck with your other endeavors.

[ryesteve]

it's me vs you.Not that I'm taking sides in this pissing match, but for someone who would take that mindset to such a trivial extreme, I'm left wondering what their purpose is in participating in a message board.