Obama in Germany

[Tom]

Is he running for Chancellor, too?
He is a big hit with the crowds in Germany. One could call him the Fuehrer of Furor!

The last time a speaker ignited crowds like this in Germany was.....1939?
And that speaker was........:eek:

[Greyfox]

Like it or lump it his speech this morning had the birds eating out of his hands. It's clear to me that youth is very much attracted to his message.
John McCain is going to look like an old cluck compared to Obama's eloquence.

McCain may very well be the right man of the two, but Obama is marching to a victory. Youth will be served this time. This man is an orator Philosopher King and will be the first black American President. Whether he can lead or has anything but rhetoric to offer, only time will tell. It's over.
I still think that he's a flip flopper who'se a master at sensing the prevailing winds.

[Tom]

Compare his speech to that of JFK.....JFK was a strong, demtermined president bent on the end of communism in Europe. Obama is a wimp bent of surrender and demeaning our great nation.

…There are many people in the world who really don't understand, or say they don't, what is the great issue between the free world and the Communist world. Let them come to Berlin. There are some who say that communism is the wave of the future. Let them come to Berlin. And there are some who say in Europe and elsewhere we can work with the Communists. Let them come to Berlin. And there are even a few who say that it is true that communism is an evil system, but it permits us to make economic progress. Lass' sie nach Berlin kommen. Let them come to Berlin.

JFK, Brandenburg Gate, June of 1963



Updated to fit Obama:

“…..And there are some who say in Europe and elsewhere we can work with the terrorists. Let them come to Baghdad.



Ich bin ein Narr.”

[Marshall Bennett]

The state of the current youth of this world is frightening , Obama's stronghold .

[RaceBookJoe]

The state of the current youth of this world is frightening , Obama's stronghold .

Even with Mccain gaining in 4 battleground states , it seems that the youth vote is hypnotized by Obama's pro-wrestling catch-phrases. Maybe its all the adhd drugs they are on. Mccain has an uphill battle with the youth vote. rbj

[delayjf]

Agree - its all style over substance.

[Tom]

And yet.....only 1 point difference in the polls today. Interesting.

But as an American, I am embarrassed for Barry. Here he is in Germany, speaking in ENGLISH!!!!!! Just last week he told US we should learn Spainish so as not to embarrass ourselves in Europe.......wassup wit dat????
He is too good to learn a new language? :lol:

And now he is talking about tearing down walls that aren't there. What a clown - a first class clown! :3x:

[RaceBookJoe]

ONly start worrying when he makes a peace agreement between israel and the arab world....then breaks it 3 1/2 yrs later. Remember..."change". haha rbj

[Zman179]

But as an American, I am embarrassed for Barry. Here he is in Germany, speaking in ENGLISH!!!!!! Just last week he told US we should learn Spainish so as not to embarrass ourselves in Europe.......wassup wit dat????
He is too good to learn a new language?

Following protocol, a leader (or in this case someone in the running to be a leader,) will only address a crowd in the official language of the country that he/she represents. Even if Obama and McCain knew ten foreign languages between them, they would always address a crowd in English. There are exemptions such as one-on-one interviews.

The latter also reminds me of an old joke. One day, a boy was talking to another boy. The first boy asks, "What do they call someone who speaks three languages?" The second boy replied, "Trilingual." The first boy then said, "Ok, but what do they call you when you speak only two languages?", to which the second boy replied, "Bilingual." Finally the first boy asked, "Well then, what do they call you when you can only speak one language?", to which the second boy replied, "American."

[JustRalph]

OBama is still going to have to overcome that Electoral College deal..........

you know, The South!!

If he can do that........... ??? Who knows

[DJofSD]

Can we keep him there?

[Marshall Bennett]

He's in Germany but bet if ya gave him a map he couldn't point it out to you .

[dav4463]

He probably thought Germany was one of the 57 states he needed to visit.

[Bubbles]

The state of the current youth of this world is frightening , Obama's stronghold .

Even with Mccain gaining in 4 battleground states , it seems that the youth vote is hypnotized by Obama's pro-wrestling catch-phrases. Maybe its all the adhd drugs they are on. Ya know, I've done what I can to shut up, but I'm getting sick of the axe-grinding with previous generations. I'm not pro-Obama, but I can sure see why people in my age group think we need massive change at the top.

Now if only we could massively change the way older people always see us as bums...

[highnote]

Is he running for Chancellor, too?
He is a big hit with the crowds in Germany. One could call him the Fuehrer of Furor!

The last time a speaker ignited crowds like this in Germany was.....1939?
And that speaker was........:eek:


The difference is that Obama has to win the vote. Whereas, Hitler was NOT voted into the office. Come to think of it, neither was Dubya. :lol:

The state of the current youth of this world is frightening , Obama's stronghold .


Plato said the same thing a thousand years ago. :D

[DJofSD]

Now if only we could massively change the way older people always see us as bums...

Hey, Bubbles, not necessarily directed at you personally but if the younger crowd doesn't want to be considered bums, then pull up your pants and use a belt! :)

[Bubbles]

You mean like you all did in the 60's with bell-bottoms? :bang: ;)

[Marshall Bennett]

You mean like you all did in the 60's with bell-bottoms? :bang: ;)
You know what ? You've made a valid point . I give credit where credit's due . My generation did some of the dumbest stuff , countless government protest , blasting the very establishment that gave us the freedom to stage those protest , I'm ashamed of much of what went on in the 60's and 70's . We were involved in a very unpopular war then just as we are now . As I've grown older I've come to better understand our roll in Viet Nam . I lost my two closest friends there , but Ive come to beleive we truely had a purpose there , as misdirected as some of our leaders may have been . We curbed the spread of communism .
We're in a simular situation now with terrorism . We can not abandon our mission to snuff out this cancer on mankind . Your man Obama is ready and willing to do just that , allow the middle east to collapse under the brutal nature of these cancerous pest . Obama's only hope of completing his mission is to pull in the youth of our country , sell them hopes of " change " . You're obligation as a young voter is to fully understand what " change " he is all about . For the life of me , I don't understand . :)

[DJofSD]

Ugg -- bell bottoms. Never liked them myself. There definetly were some funky clothes and styles back then but I don't recall those days of letting it all hang out meaning your trousers were around you ankles.

[Bubbles]

Like I said earlier, though, I'm not an Obama guy. I think he's a brilliant public speaker, but inexperienced and a guy who alters the key points of his speeches based on who's in the vicinity at the time. Change hasn't been defined yet, and I doubt it will be.

Honestly, I was pulling for Huckabee on the Republican side. He spoke at Cornell, which is across town from Ithaca College, where I go to school. Basically, he said we needed someone who wasn't afraid to go on stage and say, "Look, here's what I believe in, and if you don't like it, vote for someone else." He made a valid point, and while his run may have been doomed from the start because he's not in the Old Boy's Club like McCain and Romney, he impressed me.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if his name starts popping up in VP discussions. In the primary season, McCain and Huckabee didn't attack each other in ads, they strictly focused on Romney. I wouldn't mind a McCain-Huckabee ticket, but hey, anything's better than an Obama-Hillary ticket, which is STILL a possibility.

[JustRalph]

You mean like you all did in the 60's with bell-bottoms? :bang: ;)

Our pants were pulled up because those damn bell bottoms dragged the ground so bad...............


Just think though, you missed out on Disco!!! Shame on you! :lol: :lol:

It was a glorious time. Everything could be cured with Penicillin......and couple days worth of pills........... :ThmbUp: Oh, how good we had it.... :lol:

[HUSKER55]

I had hair back then. Long hair too. I wore bell bottoms, (with a belt) and I did my share of dumb youth pranks. But we always knew what was going on and why. We didn't "swallow the leader" like kids are today.

Obama is not presidential timeber. Had he been running back then he would not have made it to the primaries. But today, youth today swallow the cliches.

Read some of the other posts. He won't cross his heart as our national anthem is played and last time I checked he still won't wear a simple USA tie tack with our flag on it. Does that tell you anything.

Look who he is with. Remember Whitewater and the Clintons or did you conveniently forget?

He can't even control his own house and muzzel his damn wife. How in the hell anybody sees anything in that man is beyond me. He can't control his house but you want him to control this country?

When the world goes to hell after he is elected I expect, no DEMAND, that the stupid youth of this country, who can't even outsmart prison garb, to keep their mouth shut.

Don't you think, that at least the President of the US should have some amount of integrity. I am not asking for much BUT WE KNOW THEM TWO ARE CROOKS. Why else would he hang his hat with Hillary?

Light is on and no-one is home.


I say again that Obama is not presidential material. Did he ever fight for this country? Money says you can't think of anything he has done that qualifies him in any way. Was he ever in any type of military service for the great nation?

I've got friends friends from his native state that to this day can't think of a single thing he has done that qualifies him for anythng. He may have his picture all over the place but like they say, try finding someone whom he really helped, himself.

The youth of today have every right to do the same thing as the generations before. Nothing wrong with. It is part of growing up. But when you vote am I really out of line to expect a little common sense from other voters?

Where oh where is there any substance to this man?

husker55

[chickenhead]

you have to admit the headlines were funny yesterday:

"Obama speaks to 200,000 in Germany"

"McCain visits German restaurant in Ohio"

[boomman]

you have to admit the headlines were funny yesterday:

"Obama speaks to 200,000 in Germany"

"McCain visits German restaurant in Ohio"

Sure the people in Germany like him, THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY THE TAXES HE WOULD RAISE!!!!What a clown this guy is, and I hope folks realize it before it's too late. (Please take a look at his tax proposals, and I can assure you that you won't vote for him) And one of the posters saying that even folks in his own state are trying to figure out what he has done...That's because the "change" has occurred there already:bang:

Boomer

[Bubbles]

I had hair back then. Long hair too. I wore bell bottoms, (with a belt) and I did my share of dumb youth pranks. But we always knew what was going on and why. We didn't "swallow the leader" like kids are today.

Obama is not presidential timeber. Had he been running back then he would not have made it to the primaries. But today, youth today swallow the cliches.

Read some of the other posts. He won't cross his heart as our national anthem is played and last time I checked he still won't wear a simple USA tie tack with our flag on it. Does that tell you anything.

Look who he is with. Remember Whitewater and the Clintons or did you conveniently forget?

He can't even control his own house and muzzel his damn wife. How in the hell anybody sees anything in that man is beyond me. He can't control his house but you want him to control this country?

When the world goes to hell after he is elected I expect, no DEMAND, that the stupid youth of this country, who can't even outsmart prison garb, to keep their mouth shut.

Don't you think, that at least the President of the US should have some amount of integrity. I am not asking for much BUT WE KNOW THEM TWO ARE CROOKS. Why else would he hang his hat with Hillary?

Light is on and no-one is home.


I say again that Obama is not presidential material. Did he ever fight for this country? Money says you can't think of anything he has done that qualifies him in any way. Was he ever in any type of military service for the great nation?

I've got friends friends from his native state that to this day can't think of a single thing he has done that qualifies him for anythng. He may have his picture all over the place but like they say, try finding someone whom he really helped, himself.

The youth of today have every right to do the same thing as the generations before. Nothing wrong with. It is part of growing up. But when you vote am I really out of line to expect a little common sense from other voters?

Where oh where is there any substance to this man?

husker55Husker, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. I do, however, think the mentality goes something like this: We've been getting screwed for X amount of years by the same kind of people. Maybe it's time to get screwed by someone else.

For the third time, though, just because I'm barely old enough to vote doesn't mean I'm pro-Obama. See my previous posts for my thoughts on that.

[JustRalph]

you have to admit the headlines were funny yesterday:

"Obama speaks to 200,000 in Germany"

"McCain visits German restaurant in Ohio"

And that place McCain was at, Long past its prime........the Food Sucks!

although I haven't eaten there in years...........

[Greyfox]

In Berlin, Obama said:

"The walls between the countries with the most and those with the least cannot stand.

....these now are the walls we must tear down. So history reminds us that walls can be torn down..."

Okay. What implications does that speech and those ideas have for:

1. San Diego

2. The U.S.A. - Mexico border

[Tom]

It means just what it says - Obama will not respect nor defend the sovereignty of this country. He is already pandering for the latino vote, and that is far more important to him than this nation. The man feeds off attention...he is a primna dona, and whe will throw anyone under the bus to get people to cheer him. He has not one care about our country - not one.

Look, Obama is a liberal.....that is all one need know about him. NO LIBERAL is fit to lead this nation.....NONE. Liberalism is anit- American 100%. Liberals are all about big governement and total control of every facet of our lives.
A vote for Obama is a vote to end America.

[DJofSD]

A vote for Obama is a vote to end America.

Or at least the America that got us to this point.

One of these days, he'll grow up a realize, just like his parents, the America that got us here is not stupid and nothing to be ashamed of. Like parents that do the best they can for the family, the US did what it had to do. And there's no shame in that.

[Marshall Bennett]

He's a classless act . His chances are about as good as another one , Richard Nixon .... scarry !!

[Greyfox]

Okay, he said that walls must come down between countries that have the most and have the least? Could that be the U.S.A. and Mexico.
But the speech had more:

"This is the moment when we must renew the goal of a world without nuclear weapons. The two superpowers that faced each other across the wall of this city came too close too often to destroying all we have built and all that we love. With that wall gone, we need not stand idly by and watch the further spread of the deadly atom. It is time to secure all loose nuclear materials; to stop the spread of nuclear weapons; and to reduce the arsenals from another era. This is the moment to begin the work of seeking the peace of a world without nuclear weapons."

Hey, I don't like the idea of nuclear weapons either.
But they are a reality and from here until kingdom come (which could happen if a nuclear war were to take place), nuclear weapons are a reality.

It's one thing to put out this rhetoric.
He doesn't say how he is going to develop a world without nuclear weapons.
And that's the scarey part. He will be Commander in Chief if elected.

He's an idealist for sure. But realism keeps us safe, today.
America carrys the biggest stick. It doesn't sound that he's happy about that.
As Commander in Chief this man will have the power to say to the military,
"turn the other cheek. If it is God's wish that we be nuked so be it."

What are the implications of the Berlin speech re:

1. tear down the walls
2. a world without nuclear weapons

[Tom]

Tear down what walls?
The walls between Jews and Araba?
The walls between India and Pakistan?
The walls between islamic facism and civilization?

No nukes?
Pipe dream, NEVER happen.
Only a total fool like Barry HUSSEIN and people who follow him believe that.
Remember the last fool lib we elected?
Gutted the military, intelligence, allowed AlQeda to flourish?
You want more of the same, vote for this fool.
It take a lot more that a smooth talker wtih a scripted monitor to lead the free world. Obama can't even manage to go to church. He is the anti-christ.

[JustRalph]

Watch it here

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=507768&postcount=42

[Greyfox]

I knew it. I knew that I had heard that speech before.

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

[Valuist]

Ya know, I've done what I can to shut up, but I'm getting sick of the axe-grinding with previous generations. I'm not pro-Obama, but I can sure see why people in my age group think we need massive change at the top.

Now if only we could massively change the way older people always see us as bums...

I think you are right. There are some bums in the younger generation but the baby boomer generation isn't perfect by any means. I'm at the tail end of the BB generation and there has never been a more greedy, self serving group and they are the first to look down upon the younger generation.

[Tom]

I knew it. I knew that I had heard that speech before.

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try


They killed him, too. It's a bad world out there - dreams are great as long as they are backed up by guns. Only a fool - and that explains B. HUSSEIN - would trust anyone saying they got rid of their nukes. Only that fool would get rid of ours. Maybe B. HUSSEIN should go to MoTown and cut an album and leave government to those qualified.

[Greyfox]

They killed him, too. It's a bad world out there - dreams are great as long as they are backed up by guns. Only a fool - and that explains B. HUSSEIN - would trust anyone saying they got rid of their nukes. Only that fool would get rid of ours. Maybe B. HUSSEIN should go to MoTown and cut an album and leave government to those qualified.

Lennon was brilliant.
Re: The Maharishi possibly, and possibly a President or Prime Minister.

Was the hill Capital Hill ?

They sang:
Day after day,
Alone on a hill,
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him,
They can see that he's just a fool,
And he never gives an answer,


But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning 'round.

Well on the way,
Head in a cloud,
The man of a 1000 voices talking perfectly loud

But nobody ever hears him,
Or the sound he appears to make,
And he never seems to notice,

But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning 'round.

And nobody seems to like him,
They can tell what he wants to do,
And he never shows his feelings,


But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning 'round.

Ooh, ooh,
Round and round and round.

And he never listens to them,
He knows that they're the fools
They don't like him,

The fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning 'round.

Ooh,
Round and round and round

[dav4463]

If we are quoting songs, here is my song for all the "going green" crowd....

"I don't care about pollution, I'm an air-conditioned gypsy. That's my solution.......

[JustRalph]

They killed him, too. It's a bad world out there - dreams are great as long as they are backed up by guns. Only a fool - and that explains B. HUSSEIN - would trust anyone saying they got rid of their nukes. Only that fool would get rid of ours. Maybe B. HUSSEIN should go to MoTown and cut an album and leave government to those qualified.

Peace Through Strength
Ronald Reagan

[highnote]

Ugg -- bell bottoms. Never liked them myself. There definetly were some funky clothes and styles back then but I don't recall those days of letting it all hang out meaning your trousers were around you ankles.


Yeah. No kidding. We just cut to the chase and got naked at places like Woodstock. :D

[DJofSD]

Ev'rywhere I hear the sound of marching, charging feet, boy
'Cause summer's here and the time is right for fighting in the street, boy
But what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock 'n' roll band
'Cause in sleepy London town
There's just no place for a street fighting man
No

Hey! Think the time is right for a palace revolution
'Cauce where I live the game to play is compromise solution
Well, then what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock 'n' roll band
'Cause in sleepy London town
There's no place for a street fighting man
No

Hey! Said my name is called disturbance
I'll shout and scream, I'll kill the king, I'll rail at all his servants
Well, what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock 'n' roll band
'Cause in sleepy London town
There's no place for a street fighting man
No

[highnote]

Here are a couple of my favorite Bob Dylan lyrics:

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead


--------------------


The Times They are a-Changing

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'.
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

[Greyfox]

--------------------


The Times They are a-Changing


'.

:ThmbUp: Yes, the times they are a changing. Good selection.
Unfortunately, youth is going to vote in a man who we know little about.
What little we know is that he will turn on a dime and throw those closest to him under a bus. We also know that he favours tearing down walls and nuclear disarmament. Yes the times they are a changing.

[Tom]

The time are not changing. The characters are.
The same times that brought us 9-11 and repeated attacks on the US are still out there. Only now we consider putting in a dope who will not stand strong and do what it takes to protect our nation. All the respect we had world-wide during Clinton's reign of terror (literally) did us no good at all. We were hit repeatedly world-wide and at home. We were not assitened by most in our war on terror. Let's face it, Europe is no longer relevant and offers nothing worth worrying about. OR saving again, it it came to that.

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And tell that moron
get his ass back home

And accept it that soon
There'll be wolves at the door.
If your ass to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start thinkin'
Or they'll throw you a bone
For the times they are not a-changin'.

[Greyfox]

Let's face it, Europe is no longer relevant and offers nothing worth worrying about. OR saving again, it it came to that.

Normally your arguments are cogent. Not this time.
We know that you've never been to Europe.
To conclude whether or not it's relevant without being there is a premature ejaculation, err...I mean prejudicial conclusion.

I love Europe. I think that it's very relevant.

[DJofSD]

To conclude whether or not it's relevant without being there is...

So, because I've never smoked cigarettes, I can't tell my son they're bad for him and he should never, ever smoke?

I've never been imprisoned in the Black Hole of Calcutta, so, I can't tell you it's too be avoided at all cost?

I guess in you way of thinking, there's no such thing as moral high ground?

[Tom]

Normally your arguments are cogent. Not this time.
We know that you've never been to Europe.
To conclude whether or not it's relevant without being there is a premature ejaculation, err...I mean prejudicial conclusion.

I love Europe. I think that it's very relevant.

Being there and loving it is irrelevant. What does Europe offer that we need?
Can you imagine needing anyting from the French?
England might offer a wide market for dentucreme, and Spain is there is you need null's ears.
Other than those, what is the benefit of Euorpe to us? All we really needed them for in WWII was a foothold. England and Russia were helpful, but the rest of Europe was Hilter's doormat, being bascially worthless nations unable to defend themselves and depending on the kindness of stragners. The Dutch ain't much, you know.

[Greyfox]

I guess in you way of thinking, there's no such thing as moral high ground?

DJofSD I'm disappointed. I gave you more credit for abstract thinking than you've shown here. Of course one doesn't have to commit murder to make a judgement on a murderer. Of course one can have opinions on what to do and what to avoid in an a priori fashion.

The problem that I am addressing with Tom's post re:Europe, is the same mistake that Obama is making in his Berlin speech.

The mistake that Obama is making in the Berlin speech is that people are never mentioned. People are never given credit for tearing down the walls, for the airlift, for stopping world war II and on it goes.

You and Tom are responding as though Europe is a continent. And for sure it is. But Europe is also a series of peoples. I refuse to buy into the argument that any group of people whose ancestors led us out of the Dark Ages is irrelevant. People are relevant. Always have been and always will be.
And if you read Obama's speech closer you'll see what I mean about the errors he is making.

[Valuist]

Current Gallup numbers: Obama 47 McCain 41 give us a better option: 12

I wonder how much Obama would be ahead by if Nancy Pelosi would shut her mouth? She does him more harm than good.

[bigmack]

I refuse to buy into the argument that any group of people whose ancestors led us out of the Dark Ages is irrelevant. People are relevant. Always have been and always will be.
He's talking about the collective weight they pull as an entity. Which ain't much a'tall. Sure individuals make up the collective grouping but you gots to get past that to grasp the discussion.

Lesson 439: Everyone is relevant. The amount of weight that some countries hold in the grand scheme of things, is barely noticeable.

[JustRalph]

Sorry Grey, Europe is has made itself irrelevant. They rely on the United States for their defense. They are the first ones to put up their noses when we make a decision and they have no respect for our decisions.

They have taxed their people into submission and now they are allowing the Radical Elements of the Jihad to take over their court systems.

Don't worry, they make themselves irrelevant more so every day...........

[Greyfox]

With the U.S. dollar in free fall, the "Euro" seems to be holding it's own. You might be surprised who the 9 trillion dollar debt is owed to. And it ain't Bill Gates or the recent owings to China.
At any rate, I have no intention on changing your opinions.
To believe that a significant portion of the globe is irrelevant in a globalized economy, is just plain irrelevant to what really is. Vive La France!

The mainstream here is Obama's speech in Berlin. To venture down a rivlet of this nature is a topic for another thread. I'll comment no further.

[DJofSD]

The mistake that Obama is making in the Berlin speech is that people are never mentioned. People are never given credit for tearing down the walls, for the airlift, for stopping world war II and on it goes.

You and Tom are responding as though Europe is a continent. And for sure it is. But Europe is also a series of peoples. I refuse to buy into the argument that any group of people whose ancestors led us out of the Dark Ages is irrelevant. People are relevant. Always have been and always will be.
And if you read Obama's speech closer you'll see what I mean about the errors he is making.

OK, now that you've stated your position and opposition in a cogent manner, I understand better your prior statements.

I never stated an opinion about the relevance of Europe. And, I don't believe a discussion regarding reductionism v. holism is warrented. But the debate is about BHO's speech and the philisophical underpinnings embodied therein not the opinion of the importance of Europe.

As to the ancestors of a certain group of people that led Europe out of the Dark Ages, look no further than the Irish. I believe the author's name is Cahill and he makes a pretty convincing case in "How the Irish Saved Civilization.'

I'm less concerned about the errors BHO is making at this moment than I am the American voter and the media that seems to act as a press agent instead of objective commuicators of events.

[Greyfox]

I'm less concerned about the errors BHO is making at this moment than I am the American voter and the media that seems to act as a press agent instead of objective commuicators of events.

Absolutely "spot on," as the Irish like to say. :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

OK, then let me clarify what I meant.,
The PEOPLE of Europe are irrelevant.

[Marshall Bennett]

Sorry Grey, Europe is has made itself irrelevant. They rely on the United States for their defense. They are the first ones to put up their noses when we make a decision and they have no respect for our decisions.

They have taxed their people into submission and now they are allowing the Radical Elements of the Jihad to take over their court systems.

Don't worry, they make themselves irrelevant more so every day...........
... and to think of all our soldiers ( including my dad's brother ) that gave their lives to liberate the sorry ungrateful bastards !! I'm not speaking for all of them , but the majority . They owe us the air they breathe !!

[hcap]

The time are not changing. The characters are.
The same times that brought us 9-11 and repeated attacks on the US are still out there. Only now we consider putting in a dope who will not stand strong and do what it takes to protect our nation. All the respect we had world-wide during Clinton's reign of terror (literally) did us no good at all. We were hit repeatedly world-wide and at home. We were not assitened by most in our war on terror. Let's face it, Europe is no longer relevant and offers nothing worth worrying about. OR saving again, it it came to that.

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And tell that moron
get his ass back home

And accept it that soon
There'll be wolves at the door.
If your ass to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start thinkin'
Or they'll throw you a bone
For the times they are not a-changin'.

Tommy boy, Bob is disavowing your mangling of his words as we speak.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4076339.ece

"In an exclusive interview with The Times, published today, Dylan gives a ringing endorsement to Mr Obama, the first ever black presidential candidate, claiming he is "redefining the nature of politics from the ground up"

[bigmack]

Dylan gives a ringing endorsement to Mr Obama
Terrific.

If O'Bomba can secure a nod from Pete Seeger & Joan Baez he'll have a trifecta of a wack, a hack & a sad sack with WAY too much vibrato.

[toetoe]

Gee, this guy must be almost as smart as Tim Robbins.

"RE-de-FINING the na-CHUUUUUUUUUUUUR of POLLA-tics, Mr. Customs Man ... (harmonica break) ... oo-oo-yeah-eah-eah. From the ground, all the way UHUH -HUHUP."

Sounds great; less filling, but what does it MEAN ? Please give the NEW definition, Sir Zim, and I'll get you a vegan dinner date with Bono.

I guess the general policy will be to turn the other cheek, unless the aggrieved party is part of the Mad Bomber Fringe, that bastion of Chicagoland respectability. As the Diggers used to say, "Take it ... it's yours." If bombing and fascism feel good, do 'em.

[hcap]

Terrific.

If O'Bomba can secure a nod from Pete Seeger & Joan Baez he'll have a trifecta of a wack, a hack & a sad sack with WAY too much vibrato.Grandpa needs all the help he can get. I will give him credit tho', met with the Dali Lama.
Who knows maybe it will be Pete, Joan and kumbaya next?

[JustRalph]

another rich limousine liberal endorses Obama? What a surprise!

[highnote]

The time are not changing. The characters are.


You always make a good point. There's a saying, "Same news. Different people." So I agree that things aren't changing all that much.

On the other hand, things are changing somewhat. There does seem to be a big push for Obama. That requires change. I don't think it will be as radical of a change as we saw in the 60's, but if Obama gets elected then the next 4 years are more likely to be different than what we're experiencing now.

However, if McCain wins, it is probably more likely to be 4 more years of pretty much the same thing -- assuming McCain stays healthy enough mentally to lead for 4 more years.

Does anyone know if McCain's wife is into astrology. If he gets Alzheimer's disease will she consult the constellations for guidance on important policy decisions? :D

[wonatthewire1]

And that place McCain was at, Long past its prime........the Food Sucks!

although I haven't eaten there in years...........


JR - shame on you - McCain is a young 70 something - not long past its prime (?), but you might be onto something...

[wonatthewire1]

Being there and loving it is irrelevant. What does Europe offer that we need?
Can you imagine needing anyting from the French?
England might offer a wide market for dentucreme, and Spain is there is you need null's ears.
Other than those, what is the benefit of Euorpe to us? All we really needed them for in WWII was a foothold. England and Russia were helpful, but the rest of Europe was Hilter's doormat, being bascially worthless nations unable to defend themselves and depending on the kindness of stragners. The Dutch ain't much, you know.


LOL - the EU has a big a** economy, look it up sometime

Dang - Tom, pull up the border around upstate will ya?

And try to take VT with ya

:lol:

[Rookies]

The US has elected an imbecile for the past 8 years ( or at least once anyway).

This bottom feeding, of all time President, has this as his epitaph:

1) Americans are far less personally secure than they were 8 years ago, anywhere but inside the continental US;

2) It is debatable that anything this President has done has made Americans more secure inside their borders ( i.e. no walls completed, an infinitesmal amount of foreign persons and property are inspected by anyone for anything;

3) The personal freedoms and liberties of Americans have never been lower;

4) America is a pariah and laughingstock of the world because of this fool and its brave armed forces have twisted in the wind up to the surge- which has only place held the carnage in Iraq with no sign of an end game ;

5) It is in Recession due to a complete mishandling of most economic fundamentals and the burden of this terrible war.

So, if the least Obama offers to the world is hope (and he has way more than that)... this will be a giant step forward to begin to correct the insanity of the past 8 years.

[rastajenk]

Typical Canadian loonacy.

[JustRalph]

personal freedoms are lower? There isn't one thing I can't do now, that I couldn't do before Bushie.

Personally less secure anywhere but the U.S.?
What the hell are you talking about. Americans have been treated like shit by the Euros for years, the terrorist acts against Americans have been going on since prior to Reagan. You ever heard of Leon Klinghoffer (http://americanmemorialsite.com/leon.html) How about this Navy Diver that was killed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_847

America is a pariah and laughingstock of the world ? Yep, that's why thousands crawl across the desert every week to get here. That is why Cubans tear the doors off their houses and try to float 90 miles to get here. That is why billions of dollars are doled out to foreign countries who beg for our "foreign aid" Get real.............

Should I go on? A terrible recession? Get real........were you alive when Jimmy Carter was president? You buying that shit you see on CBC TV?

[DJofSD]

were you alive when Jimmy Carter was president?

As I recall, the so called misery index was well into the 20's.

What is it now, still under 10?

[boxcar]

The US has elected an imbecile for the past 8 years ( or at least once anyway).

This bottom feeding, of all time President, has this as his epitaph:

1) Americans are far less personally secure than they were 8 years ago, anywhere but inside the continental US;

2) It is debatable that anything this President has done has made Americans more secure inside their borders ( i.e. no walls completed, an infinitesmal amount of foreign persons and property are inspected by anyone for anything;

3) The personal freedoms and liberties of Americans have never been lower;

4) America is a pariah and laughingstock of the world because of this fool and its brave armed forces have twisted in the wind up to the surge- which has only place held the carnage in Iraq with no sign of an end game ;

5) It is in Recession due to a complete mishandling of most economic fundamentals and the burden of this terrible war.

So, if the least Obama offers to the world is hope (and he has way more than that)... this will be a giant step forward to begin to correct the insanity of the past 8 years.

When was the last time you were drug tested!? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[dav4463]

I like Bush.

[Tom]

Here' a thought, Rookies - stay the hell out of here and you will be happy. Us too. You are a good excuse for another border fence.

[Greyfox]

Here' a thought, Rookies - stay the hell out of here and you will be happy. Us too. You are a good excuse for another border fence.

Tut. Tut. Tom. President-to-be Obama said in Berlin there will be no more walls.

[Greyfox]

Writing in the Washington Post, pundit Richard Cohen has made the following challenge to Democrats:

"Just tell me one thing Barack Obama has done that you admire," I asked a prominent Democrat.

Cohen wants one thing other than speeches that he's done.

The article is entitled Obama the Unknown and is available on line at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/28/AR2008072802464.html

[Tom]

Tut. Tut. Tom. President-to-be Obama said in Berlin there will be no more walls.

What about holes?
We can dig moats!
And throw Obama in one! :lol:

[delayjf]

Does anyone know if McCain's wife is into astrology. If he gets Alzheimer's disease will she consult the constellations for guidance on important policy decisions?

Personnally I'd rather the next President take advice from the constellations, than Rev Wright and the Moveon crowd.

[delayjf]

another rich limousine liberal endorses Obama? What a surprise!


I wonder what their attitude would be if Obama wanted to take away that limo - they know they've made their money and its safe.

[Greyfox]

Writing in the Washington Post, pundit Richard Cohen has made the following challenge to Democrats:

"Just tell me one thing Barack Obama has done that you admire," I asked a prominent Democrat.

Cohen wants one thing other than speeches that he's done.

The article is entitled Obama the Unknown and is available on line at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/28/AR2008072802464.html

Home from visiting an elderly relative, I still don't see any replies to Richard Cohen's simple question:

"Just tell me one thing Barack Obama has done that you admire,"

[highnote]

Home from visiting an elderly relative, I still don't see any replies to Richard Cohen's simple question:

"Just tell me one thing Barack Obama has done that you admire,"


I admire the book he has written. I'm always impressed by anyone (regardless of political party affiliation) that can sit down and write a book and have it published. I may not like the content of the book, but I appreciate the effort that goes into it.

In Obama's case, I found a lot of very interesting stories in the book. He writes about the way the senate works. Most of the senators don't spend much time on the senate floor, save for the time it takes to vote. Most of the decisions about what bills to call when to call them, about how amendments will be handled, will be worked out well in advance by the majority leader, committee chairman, staffs, etc.

He says it is an efficient process that most senators appreciate given that they work long days.

He says if you stick around you may see one lone senator standing at his desk after the others have left seeking recognition to deliver a statement to the floor. He may deliver his speech with passion, but to a near-empty chamber; just the presiding officer, a few staffers, the senate reporter, and c-span. The speaker finishes. A page gathers the statement for the record and another senator may seek recognition to speak.

"In the world's greatest deliberative body, no one is listening."

[Tom]

Well then, JK Rowling would make a better candidate than B HUSSEIN.:D

[highnote]

Well then, JK Rowling would make a better candidate than B HUSSEIN.:D


I think a lot of people would agree. Too bad she wasn't born in the U.S. :D

[Tom]

OK, John.....how about Mickey Spillane then? :D


"Ladies and Gentlemen...President Mickey!"

[highnote]

OK, John.....how about Mickey Spillane then? :D


"Ladies and Gentlemen...President Mickey!"


He'd probably make a good president considering we keep electing the brain dead. Spillane died July 17, 2006.

It's funny, Spillane sounds a lot like Lefty. Didn't Lefty write detective stories?

Lefty for President. If he got on the ballot I'd vote for him!

[Rookies]

Here' a thought, Rookies - stay the hell out of here and you will be happy. Us too. You are a good excuse for another border fence.

Tom, Tom, Tom... where's the love ?

You disagree with an opinion and immediately you trot out the Monroe Doctrine. That " Us " that you refer to, has that group that agree Dubya isn't an incomptenet rube hit single digits yet ? Look up any polls you want. Even FOX, has had a negative approval of this President from Americans, since 2005.

I'll be heading to the US tomorrow, thanks anyway Tom, for a few days at the Spa. Just to show that I don't stand behind the Internet, I'd come to the American Legion in Canandaiga to share a pint with you, but that's off the beaten path. I did mention American Legion, because of course, someone as sharp as yourself realizes that there is a Canadian Legion to honour Canada's participation in both World Wars, the Korean conflict, Vietnam and now in the place where Dubya should be concentrating against terror- Afghanistan. I am a proud member of the Canadian Legion.

In any case, I will however be at Dinosaur's tomorrow on the way through. By all means- drop by.

After the Spa, my wife and children ( all Americans ) wil be joining me to take a holiday in the Adirondacks. You see Tom, disapproval of the leader of a country, does not in any way, translate intro dislike of the country or its people. I've been coming to America for almost 40 years. Hell, I'm even a Bills season tix holder.

[delayjf]

That' the problem with Liberals, they run their lives by opinion polls wharped by the negitive press that supports their cause. I doubt Obama and especially Hillary would wipe their asses if polling data indicated that the act would be unpopular.

[Greyfox]

So far the responses to Richard Cohen's Challenge about things you admire that Barack Hussein Obama has done is:

1. He wrote a book
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

[Tom]

Tom, Tom, Tom... where's the love ?

Hell, I'm even a Bills season tix holder.

Would you like me to voice my opinion of your government - it isn't very flattering.

Dinosaur - beware - lots of construction when you leave and head over the bridge - DO NOT stray off the detour - lots of murders in Rochester, and that area is no-man's land. Seriously. When do you leave?

Please, take the Bills to Canada with you - we do not that sad sack POS team in our state - welfare for the rich old bastard Wilson is too much. YOU live with the jerk.:rolleyes:

[Rookies]

My government ? I've only once agreed completely with one of them... up to the time it was elected... :lol: I'm not high on many politiicians. I think Obama offers a way to raise America's prestige in the world. He knows too that the faster he distances himself from the overpaid, pork barelling pigs in Congress ( BOTH Democrats & Republicans), is the way to victory. And he has a variety of precepts... particularily self reliance and responsibity for yourself as being part of your role in life, which appeals to every stripe.

I'll be at Dinos tomorrow during the Lunch hour. We went there on the way through last year and had a great time. Shit, we even around the corner to an OTB, that let's say... crickets were singing, when we went through the doors. :D

Never had any problems in Ra-cha-cha or most places in America and I've been to all of the Eastern cities. This surprises me, if you're on the level.

As for the Bills, it is very difficult for the average Bills fan in WNY to understand that the Bills are going... maybe not TO, but they are going once the old man dies. Nobody is ponying up $ 1B to receive a ROI that is negligible. Tix will be $200 per... very hard for them to understand in a blue collar, downsized town.

[Tom]

You are OK during the daytime.....but 4 murders in 3 days last weekend....in that general area, including a cabby.

If it was dinner, I might meet you, but to hard at lunch.

Good luck at the races....My Toga is 10 days away!

[highnote]

So far the responses to Richard Cohen's Challenge about things you admire that Barack Hussein Obama has done is:

1. He wrote a book
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

Politicians are like million dollar yearlings -- it's all about potential. It's not what they've done it's what we hope they're gonna do.

Read my lips, no new taxes. :D

We're going to be in Iraq for 100 years.

We'll have our troops out of Iraq in 16 months.

The guy who said we'll be there for 100 years is probably correct. The guy who says we'll be out of there in 16 months has a more hopeful message.

Which message is more likely to get you elected president and which is the more worthy goal?

[Tom]

The goal is to finish the job, not come home.
It may be enough to get him elected.

Then we know that the average American is too stupid to worry about anymore. I suspect that will be the case.

Wonder what would happen if these with jobs decided to stop going to work, to stop carrying the slaggards? What if we just said screw you all - you want to control the country, go ahead. Without out help. And exposed B HUSSEIN for what he really is.

Could happen.
Some are already planning.

[highnote]

The goal is to finish the job, not come home.

I thought Bush said "Mission Accomplished". :D

Seriously, how does the Bush admin define "finishing the job"?

Is it really going to take 100 years?

[46zilzal]

I thought Bush said "Mission Accomplished". :D

Seriously, how does the Bush admin define "finishing the job"?

Is it really going to take 100 years?

They have, like most other things over the last 8 years, NO IDEA how to do that.

[highnote]

Have any of you read Obama's new book, "The Audacity of Hope"?

If so, what are your thoughts?

[Marshall Bennett]

Have any of you read Obama's new book, "The Audacity of Hope"?

If so, what are your thoughts?
Haven't read it but heard its like a spin-off of " Fun with Dick & Jane " . :D

[highnote]

Haven't read it but heard its like a spin-off of " Fun with Dick & Jane " . :D

More like "Fun with Dick and Dubya". :D

[Tom]

I thought Bush said "Mission Accomplished". :D

Seriously, how does the Bush admin define "finishing the job"?

Is it really going to take 100 years?

When the Iraqi's are able to stand up and take control, we stand down. We are progressing to that end. The 100 years was not an estimate.

[highnote]

Haven't read it but heard its like a spin-off of " Fun with Dick & Jane " . :D

Seriously, has anyone read Obama's new book?

[Tom]

Why would I want to read anything by this jerk?
It's bad enough listening this lying mouth on the news everyday.
He has nothing to say that would interest me or be the truth.:ThmbDown:

[highnote]

Why would I want to read anything by this jerk?
It's bad enough listening this lying mouth on the news everyday.
He has nothing to say that would interest me or be the truth.:ThmbDown:


So I guess your answer is "No"? :D

[highnote]

Seriously, has anyone read Obama's new book?


Someone else asked for someone to name one thing Obama has done.

I'd like to find at least one person who has read his book. Lot's of people have read "Mein Kampf" but don't necessarily agree with Hitler's views.

Has anyone here read Obama's book? Anyone at all?

[hcap]

Why would I want to read anything by this jerk?
It's bad enough listening this lying mouth on the news everyday.
He has nothing to say that would interest me or be the truth.:ThmbDown:Yeah right, instead try reading this.
See if it makes any sense


http://puffin.creighton.edu/phil/Stephens/jpeg%20images/bush_book.jpg

[Tom]

I'd like to find at least one person who has read his book. Lot's of people have read "Mein Kampf" but don't necessarily agree with Hitler's views.


You mean Mein CAMP?

[Jay Trotter]

To answer the question...........yes, I've read this book! I would highly recommend it to all citizens, no matter their leanings.

To answer the second question, "what are some things I admire about what Obama has accomplished".........for one, I admire his rise from a middle class background to earn his way into Harvard Law School, no small feat. Once there, he earned the positon of President of the Harvard Review, again, no small feet.

When I read Obama's words or listen to his oratory, I am inspired. An ability to inspire others is a gift. Not many are blessed with it. If you look back in history, what had some others really accomplished in their lives up until they became renowned leaders.............Joan of Arc, Ghandi, Pope John Paul II and Lech Walesa just to name a few. They inspired people to be their best selves.

What had Ronald Reagan accomplished before he became Governor of California ~ a "B" list actor at best, but he inspired people to follow and work towards a shared goal.

I find it a shame that individuals feel a need to knock one side down in order to build the other side up. Is that what America is about? I think not! John McCain is a patriot, a leader and a gentleman worthy of strong consideration to be elected President, but so too is Obama.

Why don't we focus on the issues and leave the name calling to those who would not respect their neighbors!

[JustRalph]

What had Ronald Reagan accomplished before he became Governor of California ~ a "B" list actor at best, but he inspired people to follow and work towards a shared goal.

As president of the Screen Actors Guild, Reagan became embroiled in disputes over the issue of Communism in the film industry; his political views shifted from liberal to conservative This is where he became aquainted with the workings of Congress and the Fed. Government.

Yep, he was such a lout that all the screen actors elected him their Union Prez. This was in the day of Spencer Tracy, John Wayne, Jimmy Stewart, Bob Hope and Henry Fonda. Real Actors and men. And they were politically active. Not the crap we have today.

He toured the country as a television host, becoming a spokesman for conservatism. In 1966 he was elected Governor of California by a margin of a million votes; he was re-elected in 1970.

At the time California was in the top five largest economies in the world. If you don't think running California isn't some serious experience you are wrong. I suppose running Arkansas was better experience?

No way in hell you can compare Reagan and Obama. Chicago Politics? Come on? 2nd only to New Orleans in corruption. Hell Obama may not have even made it to the Senate if it weren't for the Star Trek Broad being a prude :lol:
http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatch/2008/01/obama-jeri-ryan.html