Actually Pick Curlins next race here...

[TheGhost]

http://www.stonestreetfarms.com/

Gets the fans involved which is great I think.

[joanied]

http://www.stonestreetfarms.com/

Gets the fans involved which is great I think.

I think it's agreat thing to do also... especially since we'll probably never see Curlin race again after this year. I see most votes are to keep him on the green stuff... anyone votes to have him retired is a stick in the mud...why in hell would anyone want to see this horse retire...geeze!!

Anyway...my hat is off to Mr. Jackson... if 'they' ever do the right thing and elect a racing commissioner for all US racing...Mr. Jackson might be the right guy for the job.

[TheGhost]

Yeah I know,who votes to retire? Insane. I say stay on turf and conquer those guys. He's beaten everyone on the dirt.

[Spendabuck85]

Yeah I know,who votes to retire?

IEAH and Dutrow?

[joanied]

Yeah I know,who votes to retire? Insane. I say stay on turf and conquer those guys. He's beaten everyone on the dirt.

Don't know if he's beat everyone on the dirt...we have a few 3 yr olds might want to try him...crazy, but always worth a shot!!!

[HolyBull29]

The crop of 3yo's are pretty bad this year. Can't really think of one who could beat him.

[46zilzal]

The crop of 3yo's are pretty bad this year. Can't really think of one who could beat him.
Depends on the distance. Hrlem Rocker could give him a run at 8.5 and under.

[joanied]

Depends on the distance. Hrlem Rocker could give him a run at 8.5 and under.

Yep, it would depend on distance and several other factors... I did say in my post it would probably be crazy...but worth a shot...as we all know, there ain't no such thing as a sure thing, and as they said in 'Let it Ride'... ya never know!!!
But besides Harlem Rocker, there IS Big Brown...and can't really rule out BB as a challenge for Curlin until we see how he runs in the Haskell. And don't forget Casino Drive... he's on his way back to America as soon as he's outta quarentine in Japan.
Let's see...hell, there has to be a few more...hhmmmmm:confused: A filly/mare :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

Based on recent Beyer speed figures, it would appear Big Brown could be a formidable opponent for Curlin should BB return to the races in top form.

I know to some it's bordering on blasphemy to state this, but take BB's top figures from the Fla. Derby and Ky Derby and Curlins recent numbers, and the two aren't all that far apart. Should BB show any natural improvement as he matures, and Curlin starts to backpedal a bit from the overseas trips, the surface switches, etc., it's certainly something to consider.

[joanied]

Based on recent Beyer speed figures, it would appear Big Brown could be a formidable opponent for Curlin should BB return to the races in top form.

I know to some it's bordering on blasphemy to state this, but take BB's top figures from the Fla. Derby and Ky Derby and Curlins recent numbers, and the two aren't all that far apart. Should BB show any natural improvement as he matures, and Curlin starts to backpedal a bit from the overseas trips, the surface switches, etc., it's certainly something to consider.

Right on, PA... and man, oh, man, what a race that would be...talk about getting a good crowd...these two would draw fans from outta the woodwork!!
I would loooooove to see it:jump:

[whyhorseofcourse]

He should run on the poly.
Get him ready from the breeders cup.

[joanied]

He should run on the poly.
Get him ready from the breeders cup.

Which one...Curlin or BB? They both need to try poly... Curlin should take to it OK, since he did pretty good on turf (although on the TV, the grass for the MOW looked awful 'firm' to me....like concrete...could have just been the TV view)...
but if Curlin's crew opt out of the Arc... I'd think they'd want to try back to back Classics to tie with Tiznow. And if BB wins the Haskell and continues on, the Classic will be pretty much a 'have to' if they want to try getting an Eclipse award for him.

Sure are a lot of "if's, and's or but's"..."shoulda, woulda, coulda" !!

[Vinman]

Although Curlin ran what be could be called a "creditable" race in his Turf debut vs Red Rocks, the question that needs to be asked is this.....what kind of barometer is Red Rocks anyway in terms of Curlin's chances in the Arc?

I don't have Red Rocks pp's in front of me from the year he won the BC Turf, but my recollection is that he had a mediocre record in nondescript Euro stakes and did not go off at short odds in those races, suggesting to me that he'd have gotten his butt kicked against true Arc horses that year. Maybe that's why they opted for the BC Turf.

Now here's Red Rocks, two years older and presumably not as good as when he won the BC Turf, and he beats Curlin fair & square. Yeah, maybe Curlin lost more ground in the Man 'o War and earned a better "Sheet" number than Red Rocks, but if Curlin was going to win this year's Arc, or any Arc, he should have "inhaled" Red Rocks in the Man 'o War.

I say if Curlin goes in the Arc, he gets his butt kicked. You heard it here first.
He'd be much better off pointing for the BC Classic and a possible "Race for the Ages" versus Big Brown over what will be the new "Pro Ride" surface at the Great Race Place.

[Cratos]

If I owned Curlin his next race would be back on the turf with either the BC Turf or the Arc his last career start. I would only give entering him in the Arc with serious consideration if Curlin ran an exceptional race against a stellar field and even then his Arc entry would be problematic.

By the way to run Big Brown against Curlin would be a man against a boy with Curlin being the man.

[PaceAdvantage]

By the way to run Big Brown against Curlin would be a man against a boy with Curlin being the man.If you say so...remember though, boys tend to grow up quickly into men, especially 3yo colts heading into the fall....

[Cratos]

If you say so...remember though, boys tend to grow up quickly into men, especially 3yo colts heading into the fall....

Yes, boys do grow up and become men, but the great Secretariat in his first race against older horses was beaten, Seattle Slew won against older horses in his first two starts at the allowance level, but lost in his first start against older horses in stakes company, and Affirmed was a loser in his initial start against older horses.

This is not to say that every highly touted 3yo will lose against older horse in its first start because Spectacular Bid had a sensational win in his fist start, but it does say or least I say that Big Brown and Curlin is farther enough apart for me to believe that if they ran against each other, Curlin would win.

By the way why Curlin? Why not try Big Brown against Well Armed?

[PaceAdvantage]

All I was saying was it's not out of the realm of possibility. Hell, they all get beat (well, most of them) sometime.

Nobody is even sure if BB is going to race again, let alone regain his top form. If he does regain top form, he could easily give Curlin a nice run in the fall, if the two should happen to meet up.

Right now, it is my opinion that Curlin is slightly overrated by the masses, and Big Brown is massively underrated by same. The difference is, Curlin has little left to prove, and BB has everything left to prove. That's a tall order for the latter.

[HolyBull29]

If he comes back to his top and matures a bit more. Yes he might give Curlin a run. Wait and see.

[Cratos]

All I was saying was it's not out of the realm of possibility. Hell, they all get beat (well, most of them) sometime.

Nobody is even sure if BB is going to race again, let alone regain his top form. If he does regain top form, he could easily give Curlin a nice run in the fall, if the two should happen to meet up.

Right now, it is my opinion that Curlin is slightly overrated by the masses, and Big Brown is massively underrated by same. The difference is, Curlin has little left to prove, and BB has everything left to prove. That's a tall order for the latter.

I am an ardent fan of Curlin, but in all due apologies by what measure is Curlin overrated? Is it because his connections want to try him on grass in hope that he does well enough to go the Arc? I would vehemently conclude that is a challenge worth thinking about if not trying because at 78 years of age, Jess Jackson might never have a colt of this caliber again.

Additionally, to say that Big Brown is underrated is also an inane statement because Big Brown has been applauded by most, but his dismal showing in the Belmont Stakes tainted his image. However I believe he is a very good colt, but not an exceptional colt and definitely not in the class with Curlin.

[joanied]

We all might be jumping the gun on this anyway...we'll know better after the Haskell is run...don't ya think?

[PaceAdvantage]

I am an ardent fan of Curlin, but in all due apologies by what measure is Curlin overrated? Is it because his connections want to try him on grass in hope that he does well enough to go the Arc? I would vehemently conclude that is a challenge worth thinking about if not trying because at 78 years of age, Jess Jackson might never have a colt of this caliber again.

Additionally, to say that Big Brown is underrated is also an inane statement because Big Brown has been applauded by most, but his dismal showing in the Belmont Stakes tainted his image. However I believe he is a very good colt, but not an exceptional colt and definitely not in the class with Curlin.When I say that I believe Curlin is slightly overrated, I mean right now...current ability, not overall accomplishments.

I'm not convinced that the Dubai trip didn't take a significant chunk out of the lemon, so to speak.

That's why I think he is more vulnerable than many would think.

Most of the opinions I see and hear out there concerning Big Brown mention things such as he was some sort of walking chemistry set, unable to compete without his 'roids, beat up on a bunch of nothings, will never make it back to the races at all, never mind win again.....

If that's not underrated, I don't know what is....although some would correct me and say it's accurate, not underrated...:lol:

[Cratos]

When I say that I believe Curlin is slightly overrated, I mean right now...current ability, not overall accomplishments.

I'm not convinced that the Dubai trip didn't take a significant chunk out of the lemon, so to speak.

That's why I think he is more vulnerable than many would think.

Most of the opinions I see and hear out there concerning Big Brown mention things such as he was some sort of walking chemistry set, unable to compete without his 'roids, beat up on a bunch of nothings, will never make it back to the races at all, never mind win again.....

If that's not underrated, I don't know what is....although some would correct me and say it's accurate, not underrated...:lol:

I make a clear and concise distinction between a horse being “overrated” and it being “vulnerable.” However I do agree that Curlin is vulnerable at this time in his racing career, but not because of having raced in Dubai, but because his connections are not sure of what they want to do with him and his training might be a bit erratic.

Yes, there were people on this forum, other Internet forums, and the print media who labeled Big Brown as a horse on ‘roids and underrates him with the assertion that without them he wouldn’t be the same horse.

However I don’t subscribe to that conclusion because I believe that Big Brown is a very good horse who is trained by a trainer whose reputation for “doping” horses is widely known in thoroughbred racing and that reputation has unfairly made Big Brown a ‘roid freak by association.

Furthermore, show me the next best 3yo and what has it done to indicated that the “playing field” is now level given that Big Brown is not on ‘roids (if he ever was). That 3yo doesn’t exist from this year’s crop and a well rested; and in form Big Brown is still the best of a mediocre crop of 3yos.

[samyn on the green]

When Curlin comes back he is going to blast them on the grass. Do not let one second place finish completely dominate your opinion on the horse. He was asked to do something completely foreign to him last out and he did quite well against Grade I comp. Next out you may ever see 2-1 in the Arlington Million and it will be romp city.

[Bubbles]

I say give Curlin one more shot on the grass. The G1 Sword Dancer at Saratoga would be a great spot. It's a 12-furlong Grade 1 that should bring in some quality horses. If he wins and does so well enough to send him to Paris, then great. If he doesn't, then regroup, send him in the Jockey Club or Goodwood, and go from there.