Who's going to Pinnacle tomorrow....

[Mag]

...for opening day? I want a full report when you get home! :cool:

I don't think I can get back up there until next summer.

[Mag]

Okay, somebody had to have gone. I saw the video, there was a lot of people there. Besides some glitches, particularly with the starting gate, how is the place looking?

[Marlin]

I was there. It is a construction site. You can see the future and if they go all the way it will be amazing. For now it is a work in progress.

[thruncy]

No teletimers visible. Proceed at your own risk. Where's Bryan Krantz? He'll fix it.

[Otis11]

...for opening day? I want a full report when you get home! :cool:

I don't think I can get back up there until next summer.
I was there. It was fantastic. I'm still in shock that we have live racing in the Detroit area again. Never thought I'd see the day.

Arrived just after noon. Place was already packed. By 1230 there was a line of cars extending all the way back to Sibley Road. By 2:30 or so we heard the Fire Marshall or police shut the parking lot down and were not allowing anymore people in. Read an estimate that said at least 9,500 people showed up.

The negatives, but keep in mine these are temporary because it's still a work in progress:
- Sound system. Can't hear anything from the rail and the grandstand it was barely audible.
- Infield tote doesn't show payoffs
- No shade for the grandstand.
- Starting gate issues.

The positives.
- There's live racing in Southeast Michigan!!!
- Pavillion is fantastic. It's a beautiful facility.
- (Sexism alert) Whoever hired the staff hand picked some very nice looking young ladies.
- Flat screen televisions are everywhere
- Nice menu inside the pavillion and they had a buffett outside near the grandstand.

[Otis11]

I noticed along the track, on each side, every half furlong there were some poles in place with what appeared to be an antennae at the top. They were about four feet high. Could these be in place for some kind of trackus system?

[Mag]

Did they have a beer tent? LOL!

Detroit News has published a couple of articles, and their gallery has 39 pictures, and a couple of videos. The opening day crowd exceeded all expectations, so it's deemed a success.

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080719/OPINION03/807190391/1004

I'm really happy for them...when I'm back in Michigan next summer, I'm definitely going to the races there!

[Otis11]

Did they have a beer tent? LOL!!
Not just a beer tent but a really nice buffet tent as well. The crowd overwhelmed them a bit since they ran out of bottled beer in the granstand area. Also, it seemed as if the prices changed a few times.

I'm really happy for them...when I'm back in Michigan next summer, I'm definitely going to the races there!
On the way home we stopped at a bar near Novi. People overheard us talking about the track and they were all looking forward to going. Most popular phrase was how they do not like going to the Detroit casinos and would rather visit the track. Keep in mind there has been little to no publicity, aside from the news articles, and there is a buzz around town. I just hope there isn't negative press after the parking debacle.

[TrackManSam]

I attended opening day at Pinnacle, and the only positive of the day I thought was the fact that there was racing again in Detroit.

A. The beer and food were WAY overpriced.
B. Unless your in the pavilion there is no relief from the weather elements.
C. The parking lot was way to small.
D. The camera crew is probably the worst in the country at this point. You could not watch a race on a TV monitor without getting seasick.
E. The lines to the bathroom forget about it, just go under the bleechers.
F. The lines to bet forget about it.
G. Food and Beer lines forget about it.
H. The starting crew is DEFINITLY the worst in the country.
I. You could not hear Matt Hook the announcer hardly anywhere.
J. No matter how many "positive" articles they want to write in the paper, I heard alot of negative response from the customers, including the fact you have to walk a mile to get in the joint.

With all this being said, I am thrilled as hell that the flats are back to my area. Also, these kinks will be worked out as time goes on and the permenant facility is built. I just hope that they didn't make to many people upset and turned them away for good. Like I said, no matter what you read in the paper, there were ALOT of upset and angry people there yesterday. I hope the phrase "you only get one chance to make a good impression" is not true in this case. I really hope Great Lakes East succeeds.

[Mag]

So how much was a beer?

Didn't everyone know things weren't at all finished?

[Wiley]

So how much was a beer?

I paid $4 at the outside tent by the grandstand for around a 12 ounce draft. I stayed outside by the open grandstand near the finish line and an immediate concern to me is the need for more outside wagering windows, with only 4 outside it was difficult to place a bet in the large crowd though I understand normal days will have much fewer patrons and maybe the pavillion was better for betting but it does not sound like it.

As Otis said it is nice to have live TB racing here again and overall I enjoyed myself for that fact and I did expect a pretty primitive setting with glitches given how fast this all came together. I do see a lot of potential with the track and hopefully as expected there will be improvements in access, parking, PA system, tote board, starters and cover for the outside grandstand.

[Mag]

Maybe it was a good thing the place was jammed and a mess....Ficano was there, maybe he'll cough up some road access improvements.

I would bet they had smaller numbers today, it rained up there, didn't it? And I see they're having a 'twilight' card Sunday....don't don't have lights yet so I hope the sky is clear for them. Last race goes at 7:30 pm.

They could throw in a couple of QH races if they need to fill up a card....

[Otis11]

Ficano was there, maybe he'll cough up some road access improvements.
Sibley Road, the main artery into the place is being widened. I heard today that the county put up a chunk of money for infrastrucure improvements. It wasn't the road access that was the issue. They were just plain over capacity.


I would bet they had smaller numbers today, it rained up there, didn't it?
Yes it did raid today.

And I see they're having a 'twilight' card Sunday....don't don't have lights yet so I hope the sky is clear for them. Last race goes at 7:30 pm.
I plan on going Sunday. Keep in mind, it doesn't get really dark up here until after 9:30 so baring any major incidents they should be able to get the card in.

They could throw in a couple of QH races if they need to fill up a card....
Rumor has it there are only about 300 horses on site. Once again, this is just rumor, but Tuesday's card is looking doubtful.

[BombsAway Bob]

with Saratoga opening Wednesday(and the simulcast biz that comes with it),
the best thing Pinnacle could do:cancel the card on a super-slow simo Tuesday,
& save those entries for the second weekend of live racing!
Suffolk Downs this year made the smart move of going to
three-day weeks their opening month;
the result was bigger fields, better handle, a win/win.

[Whitehos]

I live within walking distance of the Track. They are not charging admission this year so there is no record of attendance. The mutual handle has been pathetic. Lots of people opening day but no betting. Only 4 outside betting windows and no long lines. Our governor will not let me bet on the internet so myb wagers will go off shore, and only for the reason that the TRINITY is back. Mata, Doser and Houghton. I can make a living off them again if only Mary can get it together.

The turns are sharp and the times have been unbelievably slow. They have mule racing in California. Maybe it will go over in Michigan.

The guy that built this track is not known to be stupid. He got the County to pay for the infrastructure and then bought 25% of the bankrupt Greektown Casino. If he dosen't get slots he'sw outta here.

[Otis11]

They are not charging admission this year so there is no record of attendance..
Revised attendance estimates for Friday are now above 12,000. Saturday was estimated between 4,500 and 5,000. Pretty good considering that there has been zero publicity outside of news reports.

The mutual handle has been pathetic.
It's a brand new track. Give it some time.

Lots of people opening day but no betting.
Most of us were too busy partying and celebrating the return of real horse racing in the Detroit area.

Only 4 outside betting windows and no long lines.
The tellers near the grandstand had ten deep lines with 5 minutes to post for nearly every race. The pavillion tellers had deep lines the few times I ventured inside. Noticed that there was not a lot of activity on the few SAM's.

Our governor will not let me bet on the internet
If you're going to blame a governor, blame Engler who was in charge when that stupid law was put into place. I had it explained to me that the harness tracks wanted the ban to encourage live track attendance. Go figure.

The turns are sharp and the times have been unbelievably slow.
I've read several articles where the trainers were just loving the track. It's dirt, so where are all the anti-poly people? One thing I noticed was that while standing along the rail the horses didn't make much noise when they ran past as compared to TDN or pre poly Arlington. Could it be the cusion is deeper thus causing slower times?

The guy that built this track is not known to be stupid. He got the County to pay for the infrastructure and then bought 25% of the bankrupt Greektown Casino. If he dosen't get slots he'sw outta here.
With the way the laws are in Michigan it will be interesting to see how his stake in Greektown affects Pinnacle. Does his ownership in G'Town give him license to put gaming at the track? Will he use his G'Town clout to help overturn the law?

Personally, I hope they don't get slots. Don't want the focus to change from racing to slots like it has at Philly, Presque Isle, and to a lesser extent MTR. I could see a poker room, that would go over great. I really hope they push to lift that Internet wagering ban. If I lived in the U.P. how in the world does preventing me from wagering online encourage me to visit the track live??? Also, they should stream racing live to the bars over the Keno network during live racing.

[RichieP]

41 horses entered today for 8 races.

Hey I know let's build more tracks!!!!!!!!!!
:bang::bang:

[Otis11]

41 horses entered today for 8 races.

Hey I know let's build more tracks!!!!!!!!!!

Well, technically, this isn't adding one more track to the list since GLD closed. Pinnacle, is essentially a replacement for GLD. And, rumor has it TDN will not be open next year unless they get slots.

Still, I think the low horse counts are their biggest concern for this opening meet. I heard there are only about 300 horses on site right now.

[RichieP]

this isn't adding one more track to the list since GLD closed. And, rumor has it TDN will not be open next year unless they get slots.


There is a reason for this Otis imo. This is not a growth business. These tracks are supposed to close. This is what happens in a market economy and would be happening much much quicker if not for the racinos.

Pinnacle was dead before it opened its doors. Even if they do get the miracle cure (slots). Talk about an unappetizing product on a menu.

[Whitehos]

HEY OTTIS MY GOOD NEIGHBOR

Track success is based on Mutual Handle. If there were 12000 unpaid patrons on opening day who wagered a total of $10.00 each (120,000) they must plan on staying open selling a lot of $4.50 beer and $12.00 buffets.

Check out the Governess" campaign contributations back to when she was Attorney General. Hartman and Tyner own her. I bet Muskegon on the internet when they first opened....Then came Jennifer.

This is a great experience for Mich. based outfits to live home and race their horses. It does nothing for the "sport".

Remember the Trinity

[Otis11]

Sheesh!!! You guys are putting the nail in the coffin and they haven't even been open for a whole week yet.:)

This year, and for the most part next, will be the building phase. They aren't doing a real grand opening until 2010.

Okay, accuse me of being overly optimistic here. Maybe other tracks are failing because they have lost site of their objective. I read comments on this board how as players we are treated like cattle and how much better the casinos treat their customers, etc. What would happen if a track started treating the customers better then any other track? Why does a track have to be destined for failure? Wouldn't a smart manager look at why all these other places are failing and do just the opposite?

It boggles my mind. Here we have a guy who is promising us a first class facility, dirt track, fan friendly, FAMILY friendly, entertainment destination and we still immediately write him off.

You'll have to pardon my ignorance Hos on the whole 90's law change, 90's politics in the State, and HP/Northville. I was living in South Carolina for most of the late 80's through 96. I'm assuming Tyner and Hartman are connected with HP and N'ville. What is/was the purpose of the ban on in State online wagering? It just doesn't make sense. Assuming the Governor is more friendly to the harness crowd how does that affect Pinnacle in your opinion?

As a Michigan resident what are my online wagering options? I want to play into the track pool so most off shore books are out of the question, right? Do I get an Ohio address, call Twinspires and tell them I "moved"? Any other options?

[Mag]

I am optimistic about Pinnacle. Sooner or later, horseracing has got to get something right. I'm sure Mr. Campbell knows this. And I'm not believing it will need slots to survive. A product should be able to survive on its own merits. If it can't, improve it until it does. If it still can't survive, then it needs to die, just remove the life support already. These are not the same folks running it as DRC, HP, Northville, Magna, etc. Mr. Campbell did not get to where he is today by doing dumb stuff. Give him a shot at this.

I used Philly Phone Bet when I lived in Michigan, prior to 2000.

[TrackManSam]

Dont think for one minute Campbell doesnt have a method behind his madness. He knows there is ZERO CHANCE for this to last as a Pari-mutuel facility only. I will give it two years before he goes to Lansing on his knees threatning to pull the plug unless he gets expanded gaming. They handled $62,000 live on Sunday. $130,000 opening day, and 90,000 Saturday. And it's NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER. And with as smart of a business man as Campbell is, he knew the numbers would be in this range. For christ sake they are getting outhandled by Jackson Harness. I do believe Campbell when he says he is going to build a world calss facility, but not without slots and never with these numbers alone. Something is in the works.

[Otis11]

Dont think for one minute Campbell doesnt have a method behind his madness.Agree with you 100% here.

He knows there is ZERO CHANCE for this to last as a Pari-mutuel facility only.Been following him since his involvement with possibly taking over DRC and then opening GLD. You and I part ways with this statement.

I will give it two years before he goes to Lansing on his knees threatning to pull the plug unless he gets expanded gaming.There is absolutely NOTHING anyone in Lansing can do NOW to grant anybody outside of an existing Detroit casino or Indian Tribe additional, non pari mutuel, gaming. The citizens of this State amended the constitution saying the only way somebody other then an existing Detroit casino or Indian Tribe can get gaming is to put it up for both a State wide and local vote. Going to Lansing would be a waste of time.

They handled $62,000 live on Sunday. $130,000 opening day, and 90,000 Saturday. And it's NOT GOING TO GET ANY BETTER.It's the first week of a track going through a "soft opening". The real opeing will not occur until 2010. This year, and next for the most part, are to just get the dates in so the TB crowd does not lose the State purse fund. If Pinnacle is still pulling in these dismal numbers in 2011 then I'll stand corrected and agree that the place will not last. But, until 2010, I don't think we can really judge any success yet.

Something is in the works.This is the thing that makes me nervous about Mr. Campbell. He built up his bank only to sell it off at a great profit. He started GLD and sold it soon after at a nice profit. The skeptical side of me says he has something in the works with Pinnacle as well. The optimistic side says this one freaking ENORMOUS present to his wife and THEY are in it for the long haul...

[Mag]

It's interesting his wife used to be his trainer's wife, and he still has the same trainer. Guess it's good they all still get along.

They shouldn't run Tuesdays until they get more horses on the grounds.

[TrackManSam]

Otis, We have to go to Pinnacle and have a good discussion over the state of Michigan Racing over a few Cold ones LOL we'd have a lot of fun.

IMO, Jesus Christ himself could not build a pari-mutuel facility that would survive in Southeast Michigan. If you take the numbers that Pinnacle has done right now, and ask yourself how much better can they do. With a godlike facility, WIFI, Flat Screens, Self Terminals, Free backrubs with every bet, etc....I mean how much better can Pinnacle do then these current numbers??

The answer is, if they are going to survive, they better do in the neighborhood of 4 - 5 times better, and in this current economy with the current competition (Hazel, Northville, and 4 Major Casinos + Windsor Raceway + Lottery) That aint happenin. Only a fool would base Pinnacles success off of DRC numbers 10 years ago.

The good news is this. Jerry C knows it. Jerry C never expected numbers better then these. Jerry C also is in tight with Mr Ficano, who according to my sources (as week as they are), has a backdoor plan to "unconstitutionalize" Proposal 1. Prop 1 according to federal law creates an unfair monopoly for the casinos. Those of us that are close to racing in Michigan already know that BUT Jerry C supposedly has the connects deep within to overturn it.

The further good news is, if Jerry C DOES get his gaming facility, I guarantee it will turn into one of the best racetracks in America. Because Jerry does care about horse racing, unlike Harrah's, Mohegan Sun, and other slot parlors with racing in their backyard. Jerry will make sure that the race in racino is prevelant. So I wish Jerry nothing but the best of luck in his endeavor, and even though I thought alot of negatives took place in their first few days, you will be able to find me at the finish line.

Sam

[Otis11]

Otis, We have to go to Pinnacle and have a good discussion over the state of Michigan Racing over a few Cold ones LOL we'd have a lot of fun.You sound like a fountain of knowledge. I would love to take you up on this offer someday. Would be great hearing all the scoop and dirt that's been going on for the past 10 or 20 years.

The good news is this. . . Jerry C also is in tight with Mr Ficano, who according to my sources (as week as they are), has a backdoor plan to "unconstitutionalize" Proposal 1. Prop 1 according to federal law creates an unfair monopoly for the casinos. Those of us that are close to racing in Michigan already know that BUT Jerry C supposedly has the connects deep within to overturn it.You know, that is some great speculating. I do remember hearing about a lawsuit HP & N'ville brought up suing the Governor or the State over Prop1. Haven't heard anything about that in a while. I've also wondered about the Ficano connection. Ficano has an enormous stake in the survival of the track in order to see his "aerotropolis" dream come true. Last, is there a connection between G'town casino and the track since J. Campell is a 30% owner.

So I wish Jerry nothing but the best of luck in his endeavor, and even though I thought alot of negatives took place in their first few days, you will be able to find me at the finish line.Same here. You have to admit, it is nice having live TB racing back in the area. Even if it lasts only one season I'm a happy guy now since I didn't get a chance to hit DRC much before they closed.

Will be there Saturday, most likely with my daughter. Look for a guy pushing a stroller with the incredibly cute baby.
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