Should I play smaller purse tracks?

[SupersRFun]

Can I get some opinions on this?

I only have played SA and Hollywood so far (I'm from socal, and new to racing). I have recently started to play Belmont as well.

I have chosen these tracks because they are the bigger/biggest purse tracks and I think the bigger the purses the "more legit". (bad assumption?)

I am thinking about starting to play Mountaineer because it runs at a good time for me to play.

The question is: Is playing smaller purse tracks a bad idea? Is there more cheating/back room shadyness at smaller tracks? I read someones post about Canterbury being totally unplayable because of trainers who are cheating. Would Mountaineer fall under this category as well?

Or does "cheating" happen just as often regardless of purses?

OK so my question is should I play Mountaineer? Why or why not? Should I stick to Belmont/Socal only? I'm not talking synthetic tracks blah blah, just purely on the integrity of playing smaller purse tracks vs. bigger purse tracks? Any insite would be greatly appreciated! I love this forum, have learned alot from you all. :ThmbUp:

Thanks!

[GaryG]

I prefer medium grade tracks, specifically Monmouth, Tampa Bay, Fair Grounds and the California Fairs. I suggest that you prepare well before jumping into a new circuit. Try to learn the nuances of the track and the habits of the local trainers. I find more standout plays at these tracks, but individual tastes vary widely. Best of luck.

[proximity]

imo you are worrying too much about cheating and tracks being "legit"..... since you are relatively new to the game i'd advise playing mnr and as many different tracks as you can so you gain experience in dealing with a wide variety of handicapping situations. over time you will probably find that you deal better with some of these situations than you do with other ones....... this hints at possible areas of specialization............

[BombsAway Bob]

I originally avoided Mountaineer when I added TVG, because when I stayed at the casino & bet the ponies there, I would get crushed..I mean, NOT EVEN in the right area code when they crossed the wire. In the past year or so, spending time watching the streaming video, Frank & Nancy kept pointing out the huge difference there in NW1Y, NW6M, etc., because the pool of horses running there is pretty stagnant. BINGO! It was like, wow, it's in ENGLISH now!
I only bet vertical, & exactas have an OK takeout with fair sized pools. Watch for track bias there, also. My favorite night track by far is...believe it or not..
LOS ALAMITOS! Early Pick-4 pools run $75k to +$100k nightly, & their online PP's include wind speed, flipping halters,& other important QH info. They have the BEST ML oddsmaker in racing(announcer Ed Burgart), who makes putting together Pick-4 tickets for bettors easier; i.e., when a horse is 20/1ML, that horse WILL BE at least 20/1 @ post if the field stays intact. His 2YO & FTS comments are great, & his "Ed Burgart Free Selections" sheet @ www.losalamitos.com (http://www.losalamitos.com/) is an essential supplement to the PP's. I've been keeping entry sheets, Ed's comments, & my play along with Final Furlong figures & comments on all races since April 1st. The only thing beating me regularly is the "De La Torre" :mad: factor that pops up from time to time.. but RBauer has been putting out the Cal. racing boards sanctions, & I'm noting those efforts in the sheets I'm keeping. It's late at night here in Mass. when Los Al runs, so I'm able to really spend more time keeping good notes. I should do it at Suffolk, but they run the same time as NYRA, & I bet more $$ @ NYRA!

[SupersRFun]

Los Al is the track I bet at for simulcasting. Very close to my house. I've never bet Los Al because I haven't touched QH's yet. I'm not quite sure if I want to get into QH's. Maybe I should?

Thanks,

[point given]

Bet on the tracks that you have a good feel for. Do your homework and try making paper bets for a while to see how you do at a particular track. It takes some time to see whether or not you've got a good feel for a particular track. There are idiosyncracies of surface, distance, jocks, trainers. I personnally don''t do well at Mountaineer the few times i played it, didn't have a feel for it or confidence. And while I know the NY tracks and do OK there, there is much less value there than other tracks i play. I like the B level tracks where big bettors donot play because the pools are small, and I can get more value out of my hits in horizontal wagers and trifectas. Thats just me though.

[SupersRFun]

Also,

Anyone know what the takeout is at Mountaineer?

[SupersRFun]

Bet on the tracks that you have a good feel for. Do your homework and try making paper bets for a while to see how you do at a particular track. It takes some time to see whether or not you've got a good feel for a particular track. There are idiosyncracies of surface, distance, jocks, trainers. I personnally don''t do well at Mountaineer the few times i played it, didn't have a feel for it or confidence. And while I know the NY tracks and do OK there, there is much less value there than other tracks i play. I like the B level tracks where big bettors donot play because the pools are small, and I can get more value out of my hits in horizontal wagers and trifectas. Thats just me though.

That's the gist of my question. Play bigger tracks, which I noticed have generally less value, or play smaller tracks? I guess the part about the small tracks that worries me is the "cheating" factor. Do you think I shouldn't worry about "cheating" at small tracks? Does "cheating" happen regardless of big purse or little purse and it's just part of the game regardless of purse/track?

[BombsAway Bob]

Mountaineer Park Track Layout



http://www.drf.com/images/mnr_tc.gif http://www.drf.com/images/mtc.gif Main Track: One mile, oval.

http://www.drf.com/images/itc.gif Turf Course: Seven furlongs.
Distance from last turn to finish line: 905.31 feet.







Post Time 7:00 PM all days; Exotic Wagering Format
$2. Daily Double on 1st and 2nd and last two races.
$1. Perfecta on all races.
$1. Trifecta on all races.
$1. Pick 3 on races 3-5 and 6-8.
$1. Superfecta on 5th and 10th races.(no dimes)

Takeout Information
Win, place, and show: 17.25%
Daily Double and Perfecta Wagering: 19%
Pick 3, Trifecta and Superfecta Wagering: 25%
Website: www.mtrgaming.com (http://www.mtrgaming.com/)

[JustRalph]

New to racing? Thinking of playing MTR? Make sure you are watching Mark and Nancy and hold your wallet tight for a long while............this is the one place where tracking trainers is very, very important.

My first big score came there...........but I rarely play there now. Because I just don't want to invest the time in tracking the trainers.

[point given]

Also,

Anyone know what the takeout is at Mountaineer?

Heres a link for you to keep for all tracks takeout

http://www.bris.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=trktkout&header=off

[SupersRFun]

Mountaineer Park Track Layout



http://www.drf.com/images/mnr_tc.gif http://www.drf.com/images/mtc.gif Main Track: One mile, oval.

http://www.drf.com/images/itc.gif Turf Course: Seven furlongs.
Distance from last turn to finish line: 905.31 feet.







Post Time 7:00 PM all days; Exotic Wagering Format
$2. Daily Double on 1st and 2nd and last two races.
$1. Perfecta on all races.
$1. Trifecta on all races.
$1. Pick 3 on races 3-5 and 6-8.
$1. Superfecta on 5th and 10th races.(no dimes)

Takeout Information
Win, place, and show: 17.25%
Daily Double and Perfecta Wagering: 19%
Pick 3, Trifecta and Superfecta Wagering: 25%
Website: www.mtrgaming.com (http://www.mtrgaming.com/)


Thanks! That was fast!

[SupersRFun]

Heres a link for you to keep for all tracks takeout

http://www.bris.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=trktkout&header=off

Thanks man, thats awesome

[point given]

That's the gist of my question. Play bigger tracks, which I noticed have generally less value, or play smaller tracks? I guess the part about the small tracks that worries me is the "cheating" factor. Do you think I shouldn't worry about "cheating" at small tracks? Does "cheating" happen regardless of big purse or little purse and it's just part of the game regardless of purse/track?
Dont worry about the cheating as theres nothing you can do about it. Sure the low level racing has more of it, but the B level tracks with midsize purses are ok to me. Get some books on handicapping, get the Mazur book on a track you want to play, and spend the time to get to know the circuit you want to play, trainers, distance of races. Like a teacher once told me. " what you put in, you take out " You might also take a look at daily charts for the track you want to play to see whats happening there.

[SupersRFun]

New to racing? Thinking of playing MTR? Make sure you are watching Mark and Nancy and hold your wallet tight for a long while............this is the one place where tracking trainers is very, very important.

My first big score came there...........but I rarely play there now. Because I just don't want to invest the time in tracking the trainers.

Yes, I'm pretty new to racing. How did you know? :D

How does one track a trainer? I'm taking this to mean figure his intentions as to really trying to win or not. How do you figure out if he's trying to win or not without talking to him or being on the inside? Did you try and track the trainers using PP's? Or does this involve something way more complex?

[point given]

Yes, I'm pretty new to racing. How did you know? :D

How does one track a trainer? I'm taking this to mean figure his intentions as to really trying to win or not. How do you figure out if he's trying to win or not without talking to him or being on the inside? Did you try and track the trainers using PP's? Or does this involve something way more complex?


Can i book your bets ! ;)

[JustRalph]

Yes, I'm pretty new to racing. How did you know? :D

How does one track a trainer? I'm taking this to mean figure his intentions as to really trying to win or not. How do you figure out if he's trying to win or not without talking to him or being on the inside? Did you try and track the trainers using PP's? Or does this involve something way more complex?

Keep the charts. Study them every night. Make notes on the trainers in every race. Keep a trainer file and add your notes to that file after each chart. I used to do this in two separate notebooks. Handwrite the notes on the bottom of every chart in one book, with the trainers section separate. The second notebook had a copy of the PP's from every card I had in the other book. When a trainer scores with a price horse, note it on the chart and in the trainers file. Then look at the PP for the horse and start to look for patterns.

example:
Trainer scores with a horse that is shortening up from a mile and 8th to 6f or maybe a mile.

Circumstances:
This is third race off a layoff and the horse went long twice and shortens up after two very mediocre finishes in the routes. He is in at 6f tonight. Wins at a price.

There are multiple angles like this. But it is work to track. You can probably do it on the computer and toss the notebooks. I did this about 5 years back when I first started playing. I made a nice score on the third or fourth time I saw this same trainer do this in about a month and a half. I am old, bad memory. It was the Last race of the night, 5k claimer. Horse wins at 26-1 if memory serves me right. This trainer was doing this in the last race of the night each time. I caught this same angle one other time with the same trainer a few months later. But the price was shorter. A price is a price though.

Interestingly enough, last year when Presque Isle first opened I was looking at the card one night in their first week and saw the same trainer doing it again at Presque Isle. The horse ran second this time, but I got some decent cash in the exotics. After five years....this trainer hadn't changed at all.