I may be being too hard on DRF for trainer name differences

[takeout]

This latest one puzzles me as I had always assumed that the wrong trainer names were coming from DRF into the BRIS files. But, if so, how to explain this most recent example? Looks like BRIS didn’t get the message on this one, although the bigger picture might be that there is actually 3 different ways the name is displayed even though it’s obvious that it’s the same person in 2 of them.

Item: CT, 7-13-08, race 1. The #10 horse, “Inside The Parker”, has its trainer listed as, (last name first):

TSN data file has - Lively Rachael Lynn
Paper DRF has - Lively Rachael L
BRIS data file has – Walsh Rachael L

How come BRIS is different? Don’t they use info from DRF charts?

Trainer (and owner) names sorely need to be standardized and presented the same way within the entire data industry. I notice this type of thing too often and it’s a good reason not to mix files from different vendors, especially, if like me, you don’t have the wherewithal to fix the “garbage in”.

[njcurveball]

Baseball is the same way. Did you hear that C (period) C (period) Sabathia now wants to just be called CC. I guess he has lost his periods. :lol:

And how bout Bucky Dent?

In school he was Russell Earl O'Dey

than after his Mom married he was Russell Dent!

His friends called him Bucky

and in Yankee Stadium he was Bucky Dent

but in Boston after a hanging breaking ball by Mike Torres he will forever be known as

Bucky F$&*$&n Dent! :lol:

[takeout]

Maybe it’s time to lip tattoo the PEOPLE in the game. :D

[jotb]

This latest one puzzles me as I had always assumed that the wrong trainer names were coming from DRF into the BRIS files. But, if so, how to explain this most recent example? Looks like BRIS didn’t get the message on this one, although the bigger picture might be that there is actually 3 different ways the name is displayed even though it’s obvious that it’s the same person in 2 of them.

Item: CT, 7-13-08, race 1. The #10 horse, “Inside The Parker”, has its trainer listed as, (last name first):

TSN data file has - Lively Rachael Lynn
Paper DRF has - Lively Rachael L
BRIS data file has – Walsh Rachael L

How come BRIS is different? Don’t they use info from DRF charts?

Trainer (and owner) names sorely need to be standardized and presented the same way within the entire data industry. I notice this type of thing too often and it’s a good reason not to mix files from different vendors, especially, if like me, you don’t have the wherewithal to fix the “garbage in”.

The reason that happened is because prior to the CT race the horse was entered and scr. at CNL on 7-8-2008. The trainer was Rachael Lynn Lively but the owner was Rachael L Walsh- Lively. All other races for the horse have been Rachael Lynn Lively owner/trainer.

Joe

[takeout]

Maybe I’m missing something but I still don’t get why BRIS would have a different last name than TSN and DRF do for this trainer. Whatever the name really is, it ought to be the same in all of the re-sellers’ files. Everyone starts out with the same Equibase data so how does this happen?

[Tom]

Quality Control! :lol::lol::lol:

[OTM Al]

Could have to do with licensing? Perhaps the name must be listed exactly as on the training license?

[jotb]

Maybe I’m missing something but I still don’t get why BRIS would have a different last name than TSN and DRF do for this trainer. Whatever the name really is, it ought to be the same in all of the re-sellers’ files. Everyone starts out with the same Equibase data so how does this happen?

I went to the entries for BRIS on 7-8-08 at CNL and they have the same name Lively Rachael Lynn. Maybe there was a mistake with the owner. Like I said earlier, this horse was entered and scr on 7-8-08 and the owner difference was the owners name had changed from previous races. The CNL race has Walsh as the owner. Maybe takeout can furnish us with the file for the CT race. If I see the file then I can answer why this might have happened.

Joe

[takeout]

I went to the entries for BRIS on 7-8-08 at CNL and they have the same name Lively Rachael Lynn. Wow that’s really weird. They have it right in their entries and wrong in their pps.

I went back to the horse’s previous race in the pps (CT , 6-19-08, race 1) and checked it. BRIS has Walsh as trainer in that file too. Evidently it’s been wrong for some time. The races before that are in Del and Md and I don’t have files for those. Wonder if it’s been wrong since day one in the BRIS pps? Inside The Parker’s very first race was on 4-12-08 at Lrl. If anyone has that BRIS file I would be curious to know. BRIS may have had Walsh listed as trainer for the horse’s whole career.

[takeout]

There seems to be some disconnect when it comes to names of trainers and owners in pps. If Equibase has a trainer’s name as, say, “John J. Jones” then why doesn’t it appear in every re-seller’s files as exactly that and exactly that way?

Joe – I’d be happy to put up the file but I’m not sure if it’s kosher (would need a ruling from the PA stews) and I don't know how. It’s a .DRF data file from BRIS that you run through their PP Generator. Tried to copy just that part from the display in the PP Generator so I could paste it up here and of course that didn’t work, so now I’m stymied. I’m pretty weak with the computer stuff.

[Tom]

I think Equibase does it intentionally, to trip up "databasers!" :lol::lol::lol:

[jotb]

There seems to be some disconnect when it comes to names of trainers and owners in pps. If Equibase has a trainer’s name as, say, “John J. Jones” then why doesn’t it appear in every re-seller’s files as exactly that and exactly that way?

Joe – I’d be happy to put up the file but I’m not sure if it’s kosher (would need a ruling from the PA stews) and I don't know how. It’s a .DRF data file from BRIS that you run through their PP Generator. Tried to copy just that part from the display in the PP Generator so I could paste it up here and of course that didn’t work, so now I’m stymied. I’m pretty weak with the computer stuff.

Hello Takeout:

It comes down to the license. Many trainers have several licenses at different racetracks. Some use a middle name or use just a middle initial. I've noticed that Rachael Lynn Lively's name is used for all the horses she ran in 2008. Rachael Lively's name is used for all her races in 2006. In the same year (2006) Rachael Walsh Lively (probably the same person) also ran horses. In the years 2003, 2004, and 2005 the name used (and probably the same person) was Rachael L. Walsh. It's very possible Rachael L. Walsh got married and then used "LIVELY" as her last name.

The first time "Inside the parker" ran the trainers name used was Rachael Lynn Lively but the owner was Lisa Richardson. I agree with you that if the trainers name is "John J. Jones" then it should read that way in the re-seller's files. Maybe it has to do with the preliminary entries. In the preliminary entries the trainers last name is used first but once early scr. and morning odds are done then the program has the trainers name in order.

Joe

[takeout]

Thanks, Joe, for all of the detective work. :ThmbUp:

This looks to me like another area in racing that could use some serious uniform rules. Maybe I’m just being dense but I still don’t see how BRIS could be the only one that has a different last name for this trainer. Even if a trainer is licensed under several different names it would seem to me that all of the re-sellers would have the name that Equibase sent them for any particular start. Whether or not they turn out to be all wrong or all right, they should still be all the same.

It appears that everyone is going their own way with the names. You can see them presented differently in the different result charts. This seems VERY strange to me since Equibase is the only one actually making any result charts. Example:

Equibase chart – Allen, Jeffery
DRF chart – Allen Jeff
BRIS chart – Allen Jeffery S.

(example taken from CT, 7-12-08, race 3)

:confused:

[MooseDog]

Equibase name resolution has been a problem for years. The DRF had a policy of using only unique names. Equibase uses numbers but their system is seriously flawed as every time entries come from a track with a different name it gets assigned a new number until someone at Equibase straightens it out.

So in the example given

Lively, Rachael L
Lively, Rachael Lynn
Lively-Walsh, Rachel L

likely all have different numbers in the Equibase database.

To counter this issue, most vendors have their own name data bases and try their best to use aliases to match up the names, but this is far from exact science.

For those making their own databases, the only solution is to do your own name cleanup.

The DRF system worked, but when Equibase took over as the official data gatherer, the Equibase system was put into place.

[takeout]

Wow. That certainly explains it. Thank you.

Once again the industry amazes me. I could understand if it was some of the value-added stuff that involves guesstimates but when it comes to factual data I would think they would have something better in place.

[The Hawk]

A whole new problem comes into play when a female trainer gets married and changes her name.

[ryesteve]

A whole new problem comes into play when a female trainer gets married and changes her name.But they usually turn into a completely different person anyway, so this shouldn't bias your record-keeping :D