Hope Barry doesn't get this wealth distribution idea in his head!

[wonatthewire1]

You'd think that the US of A would put a stop to a scheme where money was just being handed out in the street to people! What are these dudes thinking?

How are we going to get our money back if it is just going to be given to people on the street? So much for the admin's idea that the oil money was going to come back to the citizens of the US of A - I guess the Bushwacking buds got all of theirs so the American people can pay for the war and the upkeep of Iraq!

As I asked Grey Fox a couple of days ago - what politician has never flip-flopped? Not going to get an answer and our out-going who-gives-a-sh*t administration isn't going to be held accountable!

Oh well - our march toward socialism continues - thanks Prez Bush!

Carry on men!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080712/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_money_as_weapon

[Greyfox]

How are we going to get our money back if it is just going to be given to people on the street?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080712/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_money_as_weapon

The U.S.A. Govt is not going to get any money back from Iraq from what I can see. Probably not a nickel in reimbursements. Companies like Haliburton and other insider capitalists get the money.

[Tom]

If one were to read the first post, the word "distribution" is operative here, not "redistibution.

A feeble attempt to compare stealing money from those who earned it here at home to a very unique and different situation.

The time of pouring billions a month into Iraq is far past due to stop, but even though the Prez keeps asking for it, it is the 9% MORONS who keep voing to continue. The idea of taking money from successful people just supercedes anything if you are a damndem.

[Boris]

The time of pouring billions a month into Iraq is far past due to stop, but even though the Prez keeps asking for it, it is the 9% MORONS who keep voing to continue. The idea of taking money from successful people just supercedes anything if you are a damndem.

Stay tuned Tom. The "We Can't Afford This War" crowd will morph into "We Can Take The Money We Spend On The War And Spend It On X" crowd. Not spending it is a thought BHO will never entertain.

[wonatthewire1]

A feeble attempt to compare stealing money from those who earned it here at home to a very unique and different situation.


Depends on how much was skimmed off the top - before being redistributed...

As an American, who pays a crap load in taxes, it is a hollow feeling to see the oil money that our Prez promised would pay for the war first, go freely to anyone walking along the street.

And worse yet, the French didn't even help with the Coalition of the Willing and got a free no bid slice of the pie (Total Petro). That Sarkorsky sure is a smart one.

I guess the Bushwackers knew that the end was near for their 1,000 year reign (where did you go Karl Rove?) and wanted to get as much as they could. Can't blame them there - sort of like Gore being a capitalist - if its there for the taking...take it!

:ThmbUp:

[Moyers Pond]

The US needs to slap a windfall tax on oil companies profits.

The only real beneficiary of the war in Iraq are oil companies. The US military cleared the way, and now they are all moving in to make a killing.

But I am sure the idiots that believe George Bush went to Iraq to liberate people will say the billions oil companies are going to make in Iraq should stay in their pockets instead of paying for the war. This way US taxpayers just pay for everything and oil companies make billions.

Separately, the Iraqi government is finalizing at least five short-term no-bid service contracts with major U.S. and European companies. Iraqi Oil Ministry (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Iraqi+Ministry+of+Oil?tid=informline) officials said Monday that the firms were selected because most had extensive experience in Iraq's oil industry before nationalization. The precursors of Exxon Mobil (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Exxon+Mobil+Corporation?tid=informline), Royal Dutch Shell (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Royal+Dutch+Shell+plc?tid=informline), BP and Total were part of the Iraq Petroleum Co., which ran Iraq's oil industry for half a century. BP has information dating to the 1920s on Iraq's oil reservoirs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/07/01/ST2008070100705.html

[wonatthewire1]

The US needs to slap a windfall tax on oil companies profits.

The only real beneficiary of the war in Iraq are oil companies. The US military cleared the way, and now they are all moving in to make a killing.

But I am sure the idiots that believe George Bush went to Iraq to liberate people will say the billions oil companies are going to make in Iraq should stay in their pockets instead of paying for the war. This way US taxpayers just pay for everything and oil companies make billions.

Separately, the Iraqi government is finalizing at least five short-term no-bid service contracts with major U.S. and European companies. Iraqi Oil Ministry (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Iraqi+Ministry+of+Oil?tid=informline) officials said Monday that the firms were selected because most had extensive experience in Iraq's oil industry before nationalization. The precursors of Exxon Mobil (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Exxon+Mobil+Corporation?tid=informline), Royal Dutch Shell (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Royal+Dutch+Shell+plc?tid=informline), BP and Total were part of the Iraq Petroleum Co., which ran Iraq's oil industry for half a century. BP has information dating to the 1920s on Iraq's oil reservoirs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/07/01/ST2008070100705.html


Hi Moyers,

Interesting point, sort of like the taxpayers bailing out everybody in a fake "free market" economy - we've been Socialist so long, whining Americans are used to it!

[Tom]

Stay tuned Tom. The "We Can't Afford This War" crowd will morph into "We Can Take The Money We Spend On The War And Spend It On X" crowd. Not spending it is a thought BHO will never entertain.

We have already heard that talk - the libs are not at all upset over the massive spending - they are pissed off that THEY are not spending it. No dem will ever vote to cut the spending and lower our taxes........and anyone who says he will is a liar. Scary how there are virtually no candidates at any level that qualify as real AMERICANS.

[JustRalph]

The US needs to slap a windfall tax on oil companies profits.


This is the one thing they should not do.
Corporations don't pay taxes!!!!

How many times do you have to hear that?

Corporations pass their tax burdens on to their customers. 100% of the time!!!!

Anybody who has ever run a small business knows this. BTW, we tried this back in the 70's and it didn't work. Here is some older data........but still relevent

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1168.html

Highlights:
CRS also found the windfall profits tax had the effect of decreasing domestic production by 3 percent to 6 percent, thereby increasing American dependence on foreign oil sources by 8 percent to 16 percent. A side effect was declining, not increasing, tax collections. Figure 1 clearly shows that while the tax raised considerable revenue in the initial years following its enactment, those revenues declined to almost nothing as the domestic industry collapsed.

The 1980 windfall profits tax was also found to be highly burdensome for the industry to comply with and for the Internal Revenue Service to administer, especially in years when no revenue was raised. It seems unlikely that a new tax could be designed in a less burdensome fashion. Tax Foundation economists estimate that U.S. companies currently spend nearly $150 billion annually to comply with the federal income tax alone. Enacting a new windfall profits tax would add an additional layer of complexity to the federal tax system.

according to the Congressional Research Service (CRS), is that the 1980s windfall profits tax depressed the domestic production and extraction industry and furthered our dependence on foreign sources of oil

[prospector]

anybody with half a brain knows that corporations pass costs on to the consumer...i did..i maintained my profit margins at all times...if my cost went up, so did the charges to the customers...
corporations exist only to make a profit...no profit, shut the doors..

[Suff]

anybody with half a brain knows that corporations pass costs on to the consumer...i did..i maintained my profit margins at all times...if my cost went up, so did the charges to the customers...
corporations exist only to make a profit...no profit, shut the doors..

I have a half a brain? Taxes have little to do with an American firms financial statements any longer. As far as any cost increases?, Corps's digest those any number of ways. Raising prices, internal efficiencies, lower profit, lower dividends, lower costs, economies of scale (growth).


But, forget all that. Except for mom & pop business's , in America business's are valued by EBIDTA now, and they have been for a few years. In 2004 EBIDTA took over as the benchmark for a companies core operations.

Taxes never see the P & L, Nor the income statement, and free cash flow is measured pre-tax.

For most CEO's and CFO's , an increase in taxes (which are a non-core expense), is more favorable than rises in core expenses that go directly to the P & L, and ultimately the balance sheet.

Where are all the Stock Market guys on PA? They'll tell you......Its all about EBIDTA in 2008.

Once upon a time, most companies treated revenues, cash flow, and net income as the sacred measures of performance -- the numbers on which investors should focus. Then about a decade ago, media and technology outfits adopted their own performance benchmark -- a variation on cash flow known as EBITDA, or earnings before interest expense, taxes, depreciation, and amortization. Telecoms followed suit, and over the years the industries that embraced EBITDA began to promote it as a more appropriate measure of earnings than net income.

Bear in mind, all of the larger business transactions in America are Business to Business, not business to Consumer. And raw goods are used across many verticals, most of which are maximizing revenue at their current pricing models. Its not as easy as it sounds to transfer costs to other business's. Most times you must find internal efficiencies.

If you want to find out how something that sounds so simple can be verified then reverse engineer it. If we raise Corporate tax 10%, you say Corps's will raise prices 10%?. Then the reverse should hold true, if we lower taxes 10% corps's will immediately pass that money back to you? No?

Corporations pay taxes. They are the countries 3rd largest source of revenu e.

[prospector]

okay suff...i'll give you times have changed since i retired...
i used to do pre tax records 3 months before and estimate what we'd have to pay to the taxman...then i'd spend half of it into our profit sharing and throwing a conference in vegas for our paid up accounts..that way i gave the profits to the ones who made it for me..employees and customers..
just my opinion, buts thats what business should do..
i find it hard to read about some of the salaries of ceo's...shameful
i had a hard rule that my salary could never be more than 10 times the lowest fulltime salary...
okay..i admit i took a bonus, but everyone got bonus..

[Suff]

okay suff...i'll give you times have changed since i retired...
i used to do pre tax records 3 months before and estimate what we'd have to pay to the taxman...then i'd spend half of it into our profit sharing and throwing a conference in vegas for our paid up accounts..that way i gave the profits to the ones who made it for me..employees and customers..
just my opinion, buts thats what business should do..
i find it hard to read about some of the salaries of ceo's...shameful
i had a hard rule that my salary could never be more than 10 times the lowest fulltime salary...
okay..i admit i took a bonus, but everyone got bonus..

My dad owned an exterminating company. monthly contracts for subway stations, schools, and buses and trains.
Anyway.....About 50% of our family expenses came out of the business. His Car, My mothers car, Gasoline, lunches, dinners, Vacations ( Biz Trips).... so I know how small business opertates.

But taxes in general? My view of the world is we are taxing incorrectly and perhaps over taxing. I'd like to see Government benefit from its contribution to commerce. For example, microwave ovens, cell phones, all sorts of medical discoveries all came from NASA's space research. Since we financed the reasearch should'nt we get a piece of the action?


Tomorrow morning I have a call with the IRS. They levied me about 18 months ago and put a lien on me about 6 months ago. They threw out exemptions I took in one partial and three full years of returns, and said I owed them $22,000 and with fees and penalties $46,000.

I filed an appeal and I have call with an appeals officer tommorrow at 9.:lol:

I already have it in my mind that if I have to pay its ok because America is the greatest country on earth and 'the greatest" anything is expensive.

One more view of the world. This past 18 months I bought 7 implants at $3000 per, one bridge , two bone grafts, a root canal and $12,000 worth of crowns for my front teeth ,tops and bottoms. By Christmas I will be done.

My point being is the country, just like a life, has bills, and choices, and those bills and choices require deep sacrifice. I'm 47, I want a nice functioning set of teeth so when I get older I don't have to eat apple sauce. So I'm blowing big money. I put the first 10 grand on my credit cards, when it was time for the next ten grand I had the cards clear and when this wraps up this winter I'll need another 15,000 clear on my cards.
Its hard, I gave up alot for my future well being. If i get an extra $50 I throw it at one of my cards. 100% of my expendibale money is going to my teeth.




I think America needs new teeth.

[prospector]

"I think America needs new teeth"
comeon suff...congress bites us in the azz every session...i'm always glad to see them go on vacation (as if they do any serious work)
good luck with the appeals officer...only the i.r.s considers you guilty first..

[JustRalph]

I have a half a brain? Taxes have little to do with an American firms financial statements any longer. As far as any cost increases?, Corps's digest those any number of ways. Raising prices, internal efficiencies, lower profit, lower dividends, lower costs, economies of scale (growth).

So you agree with me. Great..............

[hcap]

Interesting point, sort of like the taxpayers bailing out everybody in a fake "free market" economy - we've been Socialist so long, whining Americans are used to it!

Hi guys. COMMIE/PINKO/TERRORIST SYMPATHIZER/SOCIALIST/AMERICA HATING/CAPITALISM HATING/EX OFF TOPIC DOMINATOR
Here again :jump:

Hows about some more socialism instead? Deregulation up the kazoo without the proper oversight allowed greed to prevail. Like "Greed is Good" ala Gordon Gecko.

Fake "free market economy" ? Maybe we should fire up the way-back machine and re-live the golden age of laissez-faire Capitalism-say late 1800s when kids worked the mines 14 hours a day, and maybe build some more of them ole' time glorious company stores?. Adam Smiths' invisible hand grew a conscience shortly after the robber barons reigned free. Yes conscience is difficult to legislate, but the alternative is worse

Economic Lesson 1: balance greed with social conscience.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/10/AR2008071002264.html

Capitalism's Reality Check

By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Friday, July 11, 2008; Page A17

The biggest political story of 2008 is getting little coverage. It involves the collapse of assumptions that have dominated our economic debate for three decades.

Since the Reagan years, free-market cliches have passed for sophisticated economic analysis. But in the current crisis, these ideas are falling, one by one, as even conservatives recognize that capitalism is ailing.

You know the talking points: Regulation is the problem and deregulation is the solution. The distribution of income and wealth doesn't matter. Providing incentives for the investors of capital to "grow the pie" is the only policy that counts. Free trade produces well-distributed economic growth, and any dissent from this orthodoxy is "protectionism."

[Tom]

Yes, hcap, terrible that a democrat congress has allowed this to continue for almost two years now while doing nothing. Just terrible.

Or, in a more friendly fomrat:
Just terrible ++++++++++65%
Terrible +++++++++22%
Just ++++++10%

:sleeping: ++3 %

[lsbets]

Of course the Dems allowed it to happen Tom, they were bought off by the mortgage companies - lots of of key dems, including their golden boy nominee. Just more of that Dem culture of corruption. :lol: :lol:

[hcap]

Read the article I linked to. Excessive deregulation composed and enacted by conservatives throughout our history. Greed is not always good Mr.and Mrs. Gecko.

Can't blame this on the dem slight majority controlling congress-with a legislating blocking, filibuster making knuckle dragging obstructionist repug minority.

But having said that, I will agree that dems are no doubt ball-less. :eek:

[hcap]

Of course the Dems allowed it to happen Tom, they were bought off by the mortgage companies - lots of of key dems, including their golden boy nominee. Just more of that Dem culture of corruption. :lol: :lol:
Dem culture of corruption? Gimme a break. Repugs ruled the 3 branches of government for most of the last 8 years.

Oh yeah maybe if McSame gets the nod, Dr Phill will save the day :lol:

[lsbets]

HCap, all the key Senators related to finance were given sweetheart mortgages. Dislike the reps all you want, the Dems were bought off.

Corrupt. Yes. Crooked. Absolutely. Criminal? Probably, including Barry double my wife's salary I'll give you an earmark Obama.

Open your eyes Hcap - the Dems in control now are as crooked and corrupt as the Delay gang was. They make millions praises and whine that they can't do anything because those mean Reps won't let them. And they go to bed at night laughing their asses off at the fools who buy their crap. Seriously Hcap, you're smarter than that. You know they are crooked as hell.

[hcap]

Facts would help your argument.
Care to link to something other than WND or the NY Post?

My view is yes the Dems are not lily white by any means, but they also are not the main culprits for the financial screwup. Excessive deregulation started way back mostly under repug rule. After all your man Grover Norquist wants to drown government in a bathtub. It is one of the main talking points of this right wing (Pa is wrong) dominated off topic board.

[Tom]

Ball-less, huh?
Sounds like Jesse has been at it again! :lol:

BTW, Obama bought his kids a dog. Jesse called and said he would neuter it for them.

[hcap]

Jesse would also have to matriculate to learn to do back surgery.

Spine removal ain't easy :cool:

Also looks like the "straight talk express is driverless.
Kidnapped by Dem operatives was he?

[lsbets]

Facts would help your argument.
Care to link to something other than WND or the NY Post?

My view is yes the Dems are not lily white by any means, but they also are not the main culprits for the financial screwup. Excessive deregulation started way back mostly under repug rule. After all your man Grover Norquist wants to drown government in a bathtub. It is one of the main talking points of this right wing (Pa is wrong) dominated off topic board.

Here ya go Hcap:

Michelle Obama's compensation at work:

In 2006, the Chicago Tribune reported that Mrs. Obama’s compensation at the University of Chicago Hospital, where she is a vice president for community affairs, jumped from $121,910 in 2004, just before her husband was elected to the Senate, to $316,962 in 2005, just after he took office."

Obama's earmark for her employer:

Senator Barack Obama on Thursday released a list of $740 million in earmarked spending requests that he had made over the last three years, and his campaign challenged Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to do the same.

The list included $1 million for a hospital where Mr. Obama’s wife works,

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/us/politics/14campaign.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

New kind of politician my ass.

How about mortgages:

Countrywide made two loans at special rates to Dodd in 2003 to refinance homes in Washington and East Haddam, Conn.

The loans were reportedly part of a "V.I.P." program that gave preferential rates to "friends" of the company's chairman and chief executive, Angelo Mozilo. Several other notable politicians were participants in the program, the magazine said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/23/dodd-repeats-denial-of-mo_n_108725.html

Of course Dodd says he did nothing wrong. You might even believe him. Several other prominent Dems got sweetheart deals on mortgages, and don't forget the real estate favors Obama got from Rezko. And now those same Dems are sending our money to bail out the mortgage companies who took care of them.

Keep dreaming that they are not corrupt Hcap. The most unpopular Congress ever might even be the most corrupt. You must be one of the 9 percenters. :lol: :lol:

[boxcar]

Economic Lesson 1: balance greed with social conscience.

And Economic Lesson 2: Balance "social conscience" with common sense and above all -- moral, principled clarity.

Reality Check: #2 ain't never gonna happen because the Socialists in this country are only interested in buying the votes of their poor, downtrodden, opportunity-challenged, uneducated or undereducated constituents through entitlement programs.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Economic lesson #3 - They ALL lie and the they ALL are thieves.
Economic lesson #4 - Us chosing sides enables them ALL to get away with it.

Our only common ground is that the entire government is our enemy and we must- both sides - accept that and literally go to war with them.

[boxcar]

Economic lesson #3 - They ALL lie and the they ALL are thieves.
Economic lesson #4 - Us chosing sides enables them ALL to get away with it.

Our only common ground is that the entire government is our enemy and we must- both sides - accept that and literally go to war with them.

Amen, brother! Pass the musket and keep the powder dry!

This nation was found on the foremost principle of limited government because the Founders knew no human government could or even should be trusted.

Boxcar

[delayjf]

Excessive deregulation started way back mostly under repug rule. Would this country have experienced the economic boom of the 80's, 90's and until recently the 00 with the excessive regulation you advocate?

[hcap]

Here ya go Hcap:

How about mortgages:

Countrywide made two loans at special rates to Dodd in 2003 to refinance homes in Washington and East Haddam, Conn.

The loans were reportedly part of a "V.I.P." program that gave preferential rates to "friends" of the company's chairman and chief executive, Angelo Mozilo. Several other notable politicians were participants in the program, the magazine said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/23/dodd-repeats-denial-of-mo_n_108725.html

Of course Dodd says he did nothing wrong. You might even believe him. Several other prominent Dems got sweetheart deals on mortgages, and don't forget the real estate favors Obama got from Rezko. And now those same Dems are sending our money to bail out the mortgage companies who took care of them.
From the same huffington piece you linked........

"A large bipartisan coalition in the Senate last week beat back Republican efforts to gut legislation drafted by Dodd's Banking Committee calling for a massive foreclosure rescue.

The package includes $4 billion to help states buy and rehabilitate foreclosed properties, and would have government-sponsored mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pay for the rescue.

House and Senate Republicans voiced reservations about the bill in light of the mortgage allegations against Dodd and others.

Dodd told the Chamber of Commerce on Monday that the housing crises, particularly increasing foreclosures, are at the heart of the nation's economic problems.

"This cannot go on," he said. "We've got to step up to do something to stem this hemorrhaging."

.................................................. ..............

So you think the repugs aren't obstructionist and that Dodd getting preferential-but not illegal treatment demonstrates ALL dems are corrupt?

Pales in comparison to the repug scandals and more importantly does not demonstrate that deregulation historically a repug philosophy, is somehow of dem origin and primarily a dem issue .

From the EJ Dionne article I linked

The old script is in rewrite. "We are in a worldwide crisis now because of excessive deregulation," Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said in an interview.

He noted that in 1999 when Congress replaced the New Deal-era Glass-Steagall Act with a set of looser banking rules, "we let investment banks get into a much wider range of activities without regulation." This helped create the subprime mortgage mess and the cascading calamity in banking.

While Frank is a liberal, the same cannot be said of Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve. Yet in a speech on Tuesday, Bernanke sounded like a born-again New Dealer in calling for "a more robust framework for the prudential supervision of investment banks and other large securities dealers."

Bernanke said the Fed needed more authority to get inside "the structure and workings of financial markets" because "recent experience has clearly illustrated the importance, for the purpose of promoting financial stability, of having detailed information about money markets and the activities of borrowers and lenders in those markets."

....This is the third time in 100 years that support for taken-for-granted economic ideas has crumbled. The Great Depression discredited the radical laissez-faire doctrines of the Coolidge era. Stagflation in the 1970s and early '80s undermined New Deal ideas and called forth a rebirth of radical free-market notions. What's becoming the Panic of 2008 will mean an end to the latest Capital Rules era.

What's striking is that conservatives who revere capitalism are offering their own criticisms of the way the system is working. Irwin Stelzer, director of the Center for Economic Policy Studies at the Hudson Institute, says the subprime crisis arose in part because lenders quickly sold their mortgages to others and bore no risk if the loans went bad.

"You have to have the person who's writing the risk bearing the risk," he says. "That means a whole host of regulations. There's no way around that."

While some conservatives now worry about the social and economic impact of growing inequalities, Stelzer isn't one of them. But he is highly critical of "the process that produces inequality."

"I don't like three of your friends on a board voting you a zillion dollars," Stelzer, who is also a business consultant, told me. "A cozy boardroom back-scratching operation offends me." He argues that "the preservation of the capitalist system" requires finding new ways of "linking compensation to performance."

[hcap]

Economic lesson #3 - They ALL lie and the they ALL are thieves.
Economic lesson #4 - Us chosing sides enables them ALL to get away with it.

Our only common ground is that the entire government is our enemy and we must- both sides - accept that and literally go to war with them.Anarchy. The last refuge of a disgruntled repug bitching about how his repug controlled 3 branches of government screwed up royally.

[hcap]

Would this country have experienced the economic boom of the 80's, 90's and until recently the 00 with the excessive regulation you advocate?
Not sure, but we dfidn't do too badly under dem leadership.

http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2007/08/comparing-presidents-rankings-of.html

BTW, under all measures George W Churchill comes in ta-da dead last.

"So what do we get from this? Well, the economy performed best under Clinton, then JFK/LBJ. Then Carter, and since he’s almost as good, we’ll call Reagan a tie for third. Then Nixon/Ford, with Ike and GW tied for sixth, and GHW bringing up the rear. And in terms of parties, there is no contest… the economy as a whole seems to grow faster under Democrats. Giving Reagan the benefit of the doubt, he’s the only the Republican that does as well as the worst Democratic President. 100% of Democratic administrations in the sample get at least a bronze medal."

[hcap]

A bit more.

"And before anything else, lets cover the excuses that come up time and again... Its not that Republicans inherit problems from Democratic administrations -even leaving out the first two years of each administration, growth is quite a bit faster under Democratic Presidents. It’s not control of Congress – growth is faster under Democratic Congresses than under Republican Congresses. It also is not the case that Democrats are elected when times are good and Republicans are elected when times are bad. And lags don’t explain it either. Its not the Fed – among Democratic Presidents, only JFK/LBJ got more favorable monetary policy than Republican Presidents, and Carter and Clinton were treated much more shabbily than Republican administrations."

[lsbets]

Holy crap Hcap - we have the chairman of the banking committee drafting legislation not to save homeowners, but to rescue the same companies that gave him and his buddies sweetheart mortgages with our money and you brush it off as preferential but not illegal? Throw on top of that your messiah trading a million of our dollars for a raise for his wife and your ignoring that, and all I can say is your head is so far in lala land that there isn't much point in arguing with you. Enjoy fantasy island, 91% of the country has figured out that your Congress sucks, but if all you do is brush off their obvious corruption with repsdidtoo. Pretty lame considering how hard you jump on anyone who brings up Clinton, and then you do the same thing in the present. Maybe a cartoon will come out to help you, Tatoo doesn't seem to be spotting the plane for you on this.

[Tom]

I love it when he goes ballistic and serial posts.
Three things are certain, death, taxes, and hcap the confirmed lemming. Lock-stepping through the internet, looking for opinions. :lol:

Over a year and a half, hcap...when are the dems going to do anything beside screw up everything they touch?