View Full Version : The Man O War
TheGhost
07-12-2008, 05:24 PM
Well Curlin did'nt do the same as dirt but ran well.
ONCE again JOhhny V can not ride a horse to save his life. He takes his horse out front into a huge speed duel with a 40-1 and sets suicide fractions and his horse held on pretty well. If he backs off he might've just won. Frankel can not be too happy.
jognlope
07-12-2008, 05:25 PM
I had trifecta with Mission Approved, because Mike Veitch said "don't forget him," with Curlin and Better Talk Now. That was a ridiculous looking race, but Curlin did great considering suicide pace and looked calm and professional. Oh well, only lost $24.
Marshall Bennett
07-12-2008, 05:30 PM
So they've insulted his ability on the turf , guess the Breeder's Cup is next , lets see how much further they can devalue this guy on synthetics . I'll never understand this game ....... IDIOTS !!!!!!!!!
TheGhost
07-12-2008, 05:32 PM
So they've insulted his ability on the turf , guess the Breeder's Cup is next , lets see how much further they can devalue this guy on synthetics . I'll never understand this game ....... IDIOTS !!!!!!!!!
I don't get what you are saying. Curlins people? What did they do wrong?
Should they just run him on dirt and nothing else? Big time horses have on different surfaces. Was Secretariats people idiotic for running on turf up in Canada?
Racehorse times by the top three.
It was an amazing race to watch.
Castellano should be commended for a masterfully timed ride.
Marshall Bennett
07-12-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't get what you are saying. Curlins people? What did they do wrong?
Took him off the dirt ... duh , if it ain't broke don't fix it . This isn't 1970's racing , Its like , I'm Nascar champ , scrap that , lets try Indy racing . Is there really a lot to this logic to understand ?
TheGhost
07-12-2008, 05:44 PM
Took him off the dirt ... duh , if it ain't broke don't fix it . This isn't 1970's racing , Its like , I'm Nascar champ , scrap that , lets try Indy racing . Is there really a lot to this logic to understand ?
What was broke and what did they try to fix? They were just racing Curlin. He has turf breeding why not try dominating on it,and what's the difference between 70's racing and todays?
Was Lava Man's connections idiotic for running him on dirt and turf?
If Curlin wins,it's all, "yeah he kicked everyone's butt,he domiinates turf too!"
JustRalph
07-12-2008, 06:08 PM
I don't think it diminishes him much.........but I don't think anybody is screaming for him to go overseas..............a wash...............
Contessa should get half of the purse..........for his rabbit
TheGhost
07-12-2008, 06:13 PM
Yeah I do not think he embarrassed himself at all.
Marshall Bennett
07-12-2008, 06:24 PM
Yeah , in today's market , his stud value only diminished by lets say , hum , only a few million , thats nothing really . So whats next ? :p
TheGhost
07-12-2008, 06:34 PM
Yeah , in today's market , his stud value only diminished by lets say , hum , only a few million , thats nothing really . So whats next ? :p
He just finished second against some nice horses in a top grass race. Why is his breeding going to lose millions now because of a second place finish in a G1 race? If he finished 2nd in a G1 dirt would he still lose millions?
Marshall Bennett
07-12-2008, 06:51 PM
He just finished second against some nice horses in a top grass race. Why is his breeding going to lose millions now because of a second place finish in a G1 race? If he finished 2nd in a G1 dirt would he still lose millions?
Most definately .
parlay
07-12-2008, 06:52 PM
Yeah , in today's market , his stud value only diminished by lets say , hum , only a few million , thats nothing really . So whats next ? :p
are you on? Owners give the horse a chance on the green
and you complain? You are a very unhappy person!
You must really need something to complain about
and this is a extreme stretch
TheGhost
07-12-2008, 06:57 PM
Yeah,must've lost big money on him no matter what they say they did. He's saying a 2nd in a G1 race to a B.C. Winner is horrible and proves he's npt good on turf and his children will not be.:rolleyes:
Marshall Bennett
07-12-2008, 07:05 PM
Yeah,must've lost big money on him no matter what they say they did. He's saying a 2nd in a G1 race to a B.C. Winner is horrible and proves he's bad on the turf.:rolleyes:
Once again I didn't lose a dime . Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean you have to call me a liar . Maybe you lost . All I'm saying is his value was diminished today. Maybe they'll do it again on the turf , I still won't bet on him , will you ??
OTM Al
07-12-2008, 07:08 PM
Horseplayer Rule #5. No matter how good something is, complain about it.
I would think a Grade 1 placing in a turf race would add to a confirmed dirt horse's value. Versitility proved.
TheGhost
07-12-2008, 07:09 PM
HAHAHA NO I will never bet on a horse who can only run 2nd in a G1 race to a B.C turf winner! What a bad horse! Of course I would! That just proves you have no idea what you are talking about. You are saying betting on a 2nd place finisher in a G1 race in the future is a bad bet. How stupid. I guess you just bet on undefeated horses:D
It does add to his value. He's G1 stakes placed on turf.
Marshall Bennett
07-12-2008, 07:11 PM
Only my opinion , okay , I'm done with Curlin .
Shenanigans
07-12-2008, 07:13 PM
Took him off the dirt ... duh , if it ain't broke don't fix it . This isn't 1970's racing , Its like , I'm Nascar champ , scrap that , lets try Indy racing . Is there really a lot to this logic to understand ?
There is no logic to understand. The horse finish second and wasn't exactly beaten by a nag!
Taking him off the dirt doesn't mean he's staying off the dirt.:rolleyes: There is nothing wrong with trying a "dirt horse" on a turf course. They did that with Secretariat and he won.
JustRalph
07-12-2008, 10:25 PM
After re-watching the race a few times......... I notice more that he wasn't urged much at all really................. maybe a clue as to the plan all along
ghostyapper
07-13-2008, 12:21 AM
After re-watching the race a few times......... I notice more that he wasn't urged much at all really................. maybe a clue as to the plan all along
Yea I noticed that down the stretch as well, albarado wasn't that busy on him.
Yeah , in today's market , his stud value only diminished by lets say , hum , only a few million , thats nothing really . So whats next ? :p
A soild contender for worst post of the year.:rolleyes:
BeatTheChalk
07-13-2008, 12:44 AM
So they've insulted his ability on the turf , guess the Breeder's Cup is next , lets see how much further they can devalue this guy on synthetics . I'll never understand this game ....... IDIOTS !!!!!!!!!
Yup - I kept mumbling all week : Why are they putting this horse on the
Turf ? I banged into walls - didnt feed the dog - kept asking myself :bang:
Everthing to lose and nothing to win. I do indeed ..give up. Even if he won
the damned hand - so what? OK I will stop now - maybe they can run
the hoss over in Argentina or one of those marathons in England.
JustRalph
07-13-2008, 12:50 AM
There's always Steeplechase!!!
Marshall Bennett
07-13-2008, 10:16 AM
A soild contender for worst post of the year.:rolleyes:
What class . Why turn an otherwise opinionated discussion into a hateful conclusion . Post of this sort rank as the worst , simply negative garbage .
cj's dad
07-13-2008, 11:04 AM
Once again I didn't lose a dime . Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean you have to call me a liar . Maybe you lost . All I'm saying is his value was diminished today. Maybe they'll do it again on the turf , I still won't bet on him , will you ??
Actually, his 2nd place finish to a BC winner on the grass 1st attempt may have increased his value. I see no way his value went down.
What class . Why turn an otherwise opinionated discussion into a hateful conclusion . Post of this sort rank as the worst , simply negative garbage .
Your post was factually incorrect and inane.Curlins value a a stud droped not one DIME based on the Man O war result. That post was the real garbage.
jognlope
07-13-2008, 12:25 PM
Asmussen said he got off to a slow start and will try him once more on turf before deciding on sending him to France.
joanied
07-13-2008, 12:28 PM
They may change their minds for the Arc now...unless they try him on turf again and he wins...but to say his stallion value has gone down is wrong, or that he's not as much horse as before the Man O War, IMO, is also wrong.
Marshall Bennet, like anyone esle, is entitled to his opinion...most of us do not agree with it.
I beleive his value is now better than ever...he CAN run on grass, and if he were mine, I'd sure try him on artificial surfaces now...seems to me, since he did run very well on turf, he can sure navigate on poly...and a couple of wins on that surface will also increase his value as a stallion that has done it all. Even if he never runs on grass again, he prooved he can handle it. Getting beat by a horse like Red Rocks (who also had an impeccable ride) is nothing to be ashamed of...Curlin did good. A better break, getting closer to Red Rocks down the backstretch, not going as wide, and the finish may very well have been different.
In any case, this horse is amazing:ThmbUp:
joanied
07-13-2008, 12:36 PM
Asmussen said he got off to a slow start and will try him once more on turf before deciding on sending him to France.
I haven't read anything yet on the race...but it would make sense to try him again on grass... and in a race with some stiff competition, like he had with BTN & RR...no easy spot will tell them what they need to know as far as going to France.
Another thing to consider would be running the wrong way... how will Curlin deal with that, and would there be a way for them to try running him the wrong way a couple of times right here, in the morning. Just a thought.
Observer
07-13-2008, 12:51 PM
Don't think Curlin devalued himself at all. If anything, he proved he's certanly capable of running on turf. He ran with proven, quality turf horses. That just opens the door to more interest in him as a stallion, maybe even to overseas interests.
Those who were interested in him as a stallion before, are certainly not going to back down now because he ran second on the turf.
It's a refreshing change to see connections ambitious with their horse. Would have been great to see him win, but even in defeat it was great to see him run well.
Just the fact that he is even still racing goes against the grain of current trends. Now add the test on turf to prove that he's truely the kind of horse we haven't seen in a long, long time .. it's a wonderful aspect that has been missing from the sport.
Not many top quality horses handle both surfaces. The casual fan, outside of California, likely does not know the name Lava Man. Not many horses have come along to do great things on both surfaces .. Secretariat and John Henry are the quickest to come to mind, and even they didn't win all the time. Curlin's still got time to prove true greatness.
I'd love to see them give him another shot. What's he got left to prove on dirt?? There's not much competition out there, so why get criticized for beating up on weaker competition (Stephen Foster)? He faced a solid group on the grass yesterday .. be nice to see a second try at it.
Marshall Bennett
07-13-2008, 01:06 PM
They may change their minds for the Arc now...unless they try him on turf again and he wins...but to say his stallion value has gone down is wrong, or that he's not as much horse as before the Man O War, IMO, is also wrong.
Marshall Bennet, like anyone esle, is entitled to his opinion...most of us do not agree with it.
I beleive his value is now better than ever...he CAN run on grass, and if he were mine, I'd sure try him on artificial surfaces now...seems to me, since he did run very well on turf, he can sure navigate on poly...and a couple of wins on that surface will also increase his value as a stallion that has done it all. Even if he never runs on grass again, he prooved he can handle it. Getting beat by a horse like Red Rocks (who also had an impeccable ride) is nothing to be ashamed of...Curlin did good. A better break, getting closer to Red Rocks down the backstretch, not going as wide, and the finish may very well have been different.
In any case, this horse is amazing:ThmbUp:
Nice post !! Wish others were as casual in their opinions . I'm done with the subject . Far too many in this forum ready to chop your legs off at the knees if you don't agree with them 100% .
Cratos
07-13-2008, 02:25 PM
They may change their minds for the Arc now...unless they try him on turf again and he wins...but to say his stallion value has gone down is wrong, or that he's not as much horse as before the Man O War, IMO, is also wrong.
Marshall Bennet, like anyone esle, is entitled to his opinion...most of us do not agree with it.
I beleive his value is now better than ever...he CAN run on grass, and if he were mine, I'd sure try him on artificial surfaces now...seems to me, since he did run very well on turf, he can sure navigate on poly...and a couple of wins on that surface will also increase his value as a stallion that has done it all. Even if he never runs on grass again, he prooved he can handle it. Getting beat by a horse like Red Rocks (who also had an impeccable ride) is nothing to be ashamed of...Curlin did good. A better break, getting closer to Red Rocks down the backstretch, not going as wide, and the finish may very well have been different.
In any case, this horse is amazing:ThmbUp:
A very good summation with keen insight on the running of the Man O'War.
classhandicapper
07-13-2008, 02:29 PM
They may change their minds for the Arc now...unless they try him on turf again and he wins...but to say his stallion value has gone down is wrong, or that he's not as much horse as before the Man O War, IMO, is also wrong.
Marshall Bennet, like anyone esle, is entitled to his opinion...most of us do not agree with it.
I beleive his value is now better than ever...he CAN run on grass, and if he were mine, I'd sure try him on artificial surfaces now...seems to me, since he did run very well on turf, he can sure navigate on poly...and a couple of wins on that surface will also increase his value as a stallion that has done it all. Even if he never runs on grass again, he prooved he can handle it. Getting beat by a horse like Red Rocks (who also had an impeccable ride) is nothing to be ashamed of...Curlin did good. A better break, getting closer to Red Rocks down the backstretch, not going as wide, and the finish may very well have been different.
In any case, this horse is amazing:ThmbUp:
I agree.
joanied
07-13-2008, 02:35 PM
Nice post !! Wish others were as casual in their opinions . I'm done with the subject . Far too many in this forum ready to chop your legs off at the knees if you don't agree with them 100% .
I think the rule of thumb here is that we all agree to disagree (whoever thought that one up was brilliant!!)
I thought for a few minutes before I posted, MB, because I did disagree with you. I don't think that race devalued him at all, but you (or anyone) can sure give their opinions without being well, castrated :eek: !!!
If everyone would just think a moment when they post a reply to someone they disagree with, or who's post they don't like, and put themselves in the other guys shoes (so to speak) maybe there wouldn't be so much name calling here...the very person that might reply to someone calling them and/or their post 'stupid', 'ridiculous', or use some other negative words, is probably going to feel just as angry, embarrassed or offended if someone posted that way to them :bang:
I don't know....but I have always been a beleiver in being considerate of the other person, no matter what.
Fact is, no one here is an ;) expert in any way, shape or form, for the most part we're all just a bunch of folks that love horse racing, love Thoroughbreds, enjoy handicapping, are interested in breeding and the state of the racing industry, and the welfare of the horses that give us everything day in and day out. Some are owners, some work at the track ( or have in the past) or on breeding farms, some attend the races nearly every day...but none of that makes anyone an 'expert' or 'perfect'.
Okie-dokie...I'm off :jump: the soap box now and have to find out when HRTV will televise the Poker, Barbaro & Del Hcap.
:)
PaceAdvantage
07-13-2008, 10:57 PM
All I'm saying is his value was diminished today.How was his value diminished? If he was looked upon as one of the top dirt horses of the past number of years going into this TURF race, and he runs a very credible second on TURF, how was his value diminished, if his value was almost 100% DIRT based going into the race?
If anything, his value was ENHANCED by his excellent placing in this GRADE 1 turf event.
Marshall Bennett
07-14-2008, 09:36 AM
How was his value diminished? If he was looked upon as one of the top dirt horses of the past number of years going into this TURF race, and he runs a very credible second on TURF, how was his value diminished, if his value was almost 100% DIRT based going into the race?
If anything, his value was ENHANCED by his excellent placing in this GRADE 1 turf event.
Thats fine . Just take your place in line . I've been beat to death enough already over this subject in here . If there's enough of me left to swing at when its your turn . Go for it !!!!
joanied
07-14-2008, 12:25 PM
Thats fine . Just take your place in line . I've been beat to death enough already over this subject in here . If there's enough of me left to swing at when its your turn . Go for it !!!!
Hey Marshall .... A Big :) HUG!!!
Marshall Bennett
07-14-2008, 01:29 PM
Hey Marshall .... A Big :) HUG!!!
:D Thanks !!
joanied
07-14-2008, 02:56 PM
:D Thanks !!
:) :) :)
Shenanigans
07-14-2008, 05:15 PM
How was his value diminished? If he was looked upon as one of the top dirt horses of the past number of years going into this TURF race, and he runs a very credible second on TURF, how was his value diminished, if his value was almost 100% DIRT based going into the race?
If anything, his value was ENHANCED by his excellent placing in this GRADE 1 turf event.
That's exactly what he did. He enhanced his value. He certainly didn't harm his dirt reputation and his second place finish on the turf first time out has given him even more attention.
PaceAdvantage
07-15-2008, 01:59 AM
Thats fine . Just take your place in line . I've been beat to death enough already over this subject in here .Beat to death? Huh?
I offer some very logical counter-arguments to your theory and you call that being beat to death? Is there no room for debate on here anymore?
Marshall Bennett
07-15-2008, 10:04 AM
Beat to death? Huh?
I offer some very logical counter-arguments to your theory and you call that being beat to death? Is there no room for debate on here anymore?
All I'm saying is you've basically repeated what countless others have said . His value WASN'T diminished . Okay fine , I'm outnumbered and wouldn't be the last time if I'm dead wrong ... and thats fine with me . I've tried to close the subject , ( even as WRONG as I may be ) but some ( yourself included ) can't resist hammering the stake in a bit deeper . As I said before , go for it , to be quite honest " boss man " I could really care less !!!
Marshall,
I don't think his value was diminished.
Marshall Bennett
07-15-2008, 10:44 AM
Marshall,
I don't think his value was diminished.
:bang: okay !!
46zilzal
07-15-2008, 07:06 PM
At the other end of that pace scenario was the "too late" closer listed as message 44 at the reference below. Energy distribution and pace predict the same things.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=553498#post553498
Curlin should get the next step under his belt before they continue or hold back on Paris in October.
HolyBull29
07-17-2008, 06:28 PM
His value went up. That's like saying a top turf horse who's beating everyone goes into the dirt Woodward Stakes at Saratoga and runs second and saying what a bad race he just cost himself millions in breeding. No he just went up in value by proving himself big time in a Grade 1 dirt race. Curlin did great and upped his value.
GlenninOhio
07-17-2008, 08:07 PM
His value went up. That's like saying a top turf horse who's beating everyone goes into the dirt Woodward Stakes at Saratoga and runs second and saying what a bad race he just cost himself millions in breeding. No he just went up in value by proving himself big time in a Grade 1 dirt race. Curlin did great and upped his value.
But according to DRF, Curlin's pre-MOW odds in the Arc were 12-1, and then after the MOW they went up to 16-1.
So did he really "do great" in the MOW by that standard?
http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=96376
Marlin
07-17-2008, 08:22 PM
But according to DRF, Curlin's pre-MOW odds in the Arc were 12-1, and then after the MOW they went up to 16-1.
So did he really "do great" in the MOW by that standard?
http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=96376The reason Curlin was 12-1 and now 16-1 has nothing to do with his ability. His odds are built on his chances of jumping on a plane. His second in the MOW has increased speculation that he will return to dirt. If his connections announced he was 100% in the Arc his odds would plummet. If he makes the gate his odds will be between 3 and 5 -1 IMO.
GlenninOhio
07-17-2008, 08:28 PM
The reason Curlin was 12-1 and now 16-1 has nothing to do with his ability. His odds are built on his chances of jumping on a plane. His second in the MOW has increased speculation that he will return to dirt. If his connections announced he was 100% in the Arc his odds would plummet. If he makes the gate his odds will be between 3 and 5 -1 IMO.
Ok, then let's try another perpsective.
The Arc line makers thought the chances of Curlin jumping on a plane decreased in light of his performance in the MOW.
Seems like this supports the argument that he didn't do so "great" in the MOW?
Marlin
07-17-2008, 08:55 PM
Ok, then let's try another perpsective.
The Arc line makers thought the chances of Curlin jumping on a plane decreased in light of his performance in the MOW.
Seems like this supports the argument that he didn't do so "great" in the MOW?Yes. His MOW was not great.
PaceAdvantage
07-18-2008, 03:40 AM
But according to DRF, Curlin's pre-MOW odds in the Arc were 12-1, and then after the MOW they went up to 16-1.
So did he really "do great" in the MOW by that standard?
http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=96376Even if Curlin had won the MOW, MANY (including myself) still would have given him little chance to win the Arc. I'm also not certain what his ML odds to win the Arc have to do with his stud value going up or down based on his VERY GOOD finish in one of the premier turf races on the US racing calendar.
ArlJim78
07-18-2008, 07:24 AM
The reason Curlin was 12-1 and now 16-1 has nothing to do with his ability. His odds are built on his chances of jumping on a plane. His second in the MOW has increased speculation that he will return to dirt. If his connections announced he was 100% in the Arc his odds would plummet. If he makes the gate his odds will be between 3 and 5 -1 IMO.
i see no chance that he is under 10 to 1 at the starting gate for the arc.
Marlin
07-19-2008, 12:32 AM
i see no chance that he is under 10 to 1 at the starting gate for the arc.I hope you are right.:)
logical deductions can be made about this race.
last furlong run in 11.86- after running 10f Red Rocks ran the last furlong better than 11.86 tells me the early pace of the front runners didnt effect his run and Castellano placed Red Rocks in better position than Curlin.
Albarado offered nothing to help Curlin but a few cracks of the whip. To defeat Red Rocks and better the time of 11.86 a jock with a strong stretch run could have helped Curlin extend his stride (scrub) for a better stretch run. Curlin is a strong muscular horse who needs strong handling down the stretch when placed in nearly impossible situations as in Man O'War...Gomez or JRVelasquez would better suit Curlin, both have the arm strength to get horses extend their strides.
Albarado is only good when Curlin is much the best in a race, when he has to help Curlin, Curlin suffers as in The Belmont, use of the whip will not to get this muscular horse to extend.
joanied
07-21-2008, 11:26 AM
logical deductions can be made about this race.
last furlong run in 11.86- after running 10f Red Rocks ran the last furlong better than 11.86 tells me the early pace of the front runners didnt effect his run and Castellano placed Red Rocks in better position than Curlin.
Albarado offered nothing to help Curlin but a few cracks of the whip. To defeat Red Rocks and better the time of 11.86 a jock with a strong stretch run could have helped Curlin extend his stride (scrub) for a better stretch run. Curlin is a strong muscular horse who needs strong handling down the stretch when placed in nearly impossible situations as in Man O'War...Gomez or JRVelasquez would better suit Curlin, both have the arm strength to get horses extend their strides.
Albarado is only good when Curlin is much the best in a race, when he has to help Curlin, Curlin suffers as in The Belmont, use of the whip will not to get this muscular horse to extend.
Excellent summary of the MOW and Curlin...but, no way will they take Robby off Curlin...for better or worse.
Cratos
07-21-2008, 01:24 PM
logical deductions can be made about this race.
last furlong run in 11.86- after running 10f Red Rocks ran the last furlong better than 11.86 tells me the early pace of the front runners didnt effect his run and Castellano placed Red Rocks in better position than Curlin.
Albarado offered nothing to help Curlin but a few cracks of the whip. To defeat Red Rocks and better the time of 11.86 a jock with a strong stretch run could have helped Curlin extend his stride (scrub) for a better stretch run. Curlin is a strong muscular horse who needs strong handling down the stretch when placed in nearly impossible situations as in Man O'War...Gomez or JRVelasquez would better suit Curlin, both have the arm strength to get horses extend their strides.
Albarado is only good when Curlin is much the best in a race, when he has to help Curlin, Curlin suffers as in The Belmont, use of the whip will not to get this muscular horse to extend.
A good summary and Red Rocks ran his last furlong in the MOW in 11.61 seconds and Curlin's last furlong in the MOW was run in 11.77 seconds.
Excellent summary of the MOW and Curlin...but, no way will they take Robby off Curlin...for better or worse.
Then this horse will never realize his full potential.
joanied
07-22-2008, 07:57 PM
Then this horse will never realize his full potential.
Hope that's wrong... I was going to say a jockey shouldn't be the reason a horse doesn't reach his full potential... but, it has been the case...usually it's one bad ride, one tiny mistake or miscalculation that'll cost a horse a big race and possibly a championship.
That said, Robby would have to mess up big time to loose the mount on Curlin, IMO.
Bruddah
07-22-2008, 10:39 PM
A good summary and Red Rocks ran his last furlong in the MOW in 11.61 seconds and Curlin's last furlong in the MOW was run in 11.77 seconds.
I have played several turf races in my lifetime. Did well in some and not so well in others. So, I really consider myself a novice (non specialist) when it comes to the Turf. If we were talking about any other horse than Curlin, having never run on Turf prior to the MOW and he produced a place against that competition with a last furlong in 11.77, what would the posts on this board be saying? I think most would be saying, that a Turf Star was born in the MOW. I think they would be saying this horse had plenty of "upside" and look forward to seeing him on the lawn again.
That's my take on the MOW and Curlins performance. Just my Humble Handicapping Opinion. :ThmbUp:
joanied
07-23-2008, 04:17 PM
I have played several turf races in my lifetime. Did well in some and not so well in others. So, I really consider myself a novice (non specialist) when it comes to the Turf. If we were talking about any other horse than Curlin, having never run on Turf prior to the MOW and he produced a place against that competition with a last furlong in 11.77, what would the posts on this board be saying? I think most would be saying, that a Turf Star was born in the MOW. I think they would be saying this horse had plenty of "upside" and look forward to seeing him on the lawn again.
That's my take on the MOW and Curlins performance. Just my Humble Handicapping Opinion. :ThmbUp:
Excellent opinion:ThmbUp:
I agree with you Bruddah, I believe he should go in the Arc. Most folk didnt know how to interpret the MOW, except that this monster horse should have won. Put any horse in a mathematical impossible situation (:11 second last furlong to win at 1 3/8) and he looks ordinary.
PaceAdvantage
07-26-2008, 02:49 AM
Does the fact that Curlin & Co. had an insanely aberrant pace to run at have anything to do with the blazing final furlong? Perhaps the final furlong needs to be taken in context with the early setup....
Bruddah
07-26-2008, 05:26 AM
Does the fact that Curlin & Co. had an insanely aberrant pace to run at have anything to do with the blazing final furlong? Perhaps the final furlong needs to be taken in context with the early setup....
However, I thought that is what good TURF horses do.( run fast in closing) Personally, I think there is plenty of upside to Curlin on the lawn. The only thing that bothers me about the Arc, is running to his right. Maybe some of you horsmen/ladies could give us a clue on what it would take to get Curlin educated to do this by October. I just can't see where it would be possible. But, I would like to know what some of you think.
joanied
07-27-2008, 11:05 AM
However, I thought that is what good TURF horses do.( run fast in closing) Personally, I think there is plenty of upside to Curlin on the lawn. The only thing that bothers me about the Arc, is running to his right. Maybe some of you horsmen/ladies could give us a clue on what it would take to get Curlin educated to do this by October. I just can't see where it would be possible. But, I would like to know what some of you think.
I'm curious about that also... I know if they decide to send Curlin over there, they plan on doing it quite some time before the race is run...to get him acclimated, so maybe they would wait til he's there to get him going the wrong way?
I can't imagine what all of a sudden running the wrong way does to a horse mentally... it must be quite confusing.
Marshall Bennett
07-27-2008, 11:14 AM
Hell , horses love to run , they don't care which way they go . May be more of an issue for the jockey . :p
joanied
07-27-2008, 12:26 PM
Hell , horses love to run , they don't care which way they go . May be more of an issue for the jockey . :p
Yes, they do love to run...but they also have a left & right side preferrance...and are creatures of habit...so I don't beleive Curlin, or any horse, will just simply take to running a completely different way just because he loves to run.
But, now that I'm typing this, I guess the Euro horses come here and run OK going the wrong way...
hhmmmm :bang:
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