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highnote
07-08-2008, 08:42 PM
Thanks to Indulto for posting this in the HANA section.

Here is how one executive at NYRA views horseplayers.
--------------------------------------------------------


http://paulmoranattheraces.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-forum-for-racing-fan.html
A new forum for the racing fan
By Paul Moran July 8, 2008

The evolution of a nontraditional, essentially digital racing media has spawned the Self-appointed Fan Committee …

… This is a welcome and inevitable development resulting from an unfiltered exchange of ideas and opinion among those whose ideas and opinions are valued least by those who steer the course of most racetracks. Where once discourse of this type was limited to those who congregated at racetracks, small groups of the disenfranchised and neglected whose money … fuels the sport and whose tolerance is admirably durable, the Internet has expanded the dialogue among those whose participation is now largely remote to a national and even international stage that somehow those who make decisions that affect directly racing’s core audience continue to ignore.

… Horseplayers, in fact, rank low on the list of priorities at NYRA. Horseplayers, in fact, are regarded openly by at least one executive with contempt

On the night before the Belmont Stakes, while he was extolling the brilliance that resulted in the construction of a large wooden desk in the Belmont Park clubhouse lobby, it was suggested to a high-ranking NYRA executive that the organization has lost sight of the core audience.

What, he asked, was the core audience?

The horseplayers.

“ ------ the horseplayers,” he said, employing a widely used euphemism for copulation.

That’s where you stand in New York.

A forum easily accessible to those with the power to at least take note if not action is a welcome addition to the digital dialogue. The Self-appointed Fan Committee website is a fine place to begin and should (yeah, right) become the home page of every racing executive in the land.

slewis
07-08-2008, 09:55 PM
I dont know of anyone who's more anti-NYRA then I am... but without revealing the name of the executive who said this, as far as I'm concerned, it's flat out bull-shit.

So someone who know's Moran should ask him to come forward with the name.

If he's afraid to say, then he's a nothing but a body part quite often used in copulation!!!!

KMS
07-08-2008, 10:22 PM
True or not, it has the ring of plausibility. Nobody would ever believe Steve Wynn saying that about craps players, but it's easily imaginable that one might hear those words from a NYRA executive. The daily actions of track management (and horsemen too) are all the proof anyone needs of what their attitude is toward the horseplayer, whether they verbalize it or not.

Indulto
07-08-2008, 10:27 PM
I dont know of anyone who's more anti-NYRA then I am... but without revealing the name of the executive who said this, as far as I'm concerned, it's flat out bull-shit.

So someone who know's Moran should ask him to come forward with the name.

If he's afraid to say, then he's a nothing but a body part quite often used in copulation!!!!I was very surprised that, after what they've been through, any NYRA executive would be foolish and arrogant enought to say that. I don't know Moran personally, but I've never found him to be irresponsible before in all the years I've followed him. If I had, as a NYRA supporter, I would have questioned the quote when I posted it.

If you have information that would change my mind, I'd appreciate your providing it.

MickJ26
07-08-2008, 10:31 PM
Thanks to Indulto for posting this in the HANA section.

Here is how one executive at NYRA views horseplayers.
--------------------------------------------------------


http://paulmoranattheraces.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-forum-for-racing-fan.html
A new forum for the racing fan
By Paul Moran July 8, 2008




Anybody who's been to Aqueduct during the IDT meet can probably vouch for this to be true. Then again, all sports treat their fans with the same "give us your money and shut up" routine.

cj
07-08-2008, 10:31 PM
I think the point is that without identifying the person it doesn't provide any real ammunition.

highnote
07-08-2008, 10:35 PM
I think the point is that without identifying the person it doesn't provide any real ammunition.

Moran should have given a name. If the executive was dumb enough to say it, then Moran should not be afraid of publishing his name.

Otherwise, it's just hearsay.

Indulto
07-08-2008, 10:47 PM
Moran should have given a name. If the executive was dumb enough to say it, then Moran should not be afraid of publishing his name.

Otherwise, it's just hearsay.He could be giving the individual the opportunity to come forward on his own or else to see how the organization handles it.

slewis
07-08-2008, 11:06 PM
He could be giving the individual the opportunity to come forward on his own or else to see how the organization handles it.

No way. A couple of years ago a turf writer for the NY Post went to the paddock with a trainer friend of his, the owner and a few of the owner's friends.

Security gave the owner's friends a bit of a hard time, not allowing them into the paddock without proper ID, so the writer for the Post made wrote about the incident the next day in his column citing that he thought the security "threat" was ridiculous.

The Head of security at NYRA went to the press box the next dayafter the column appeared and intimidated the writer telling him not to write such thing's "or else".

The next year, the writer's father, a minor jockey agent, was barred from the grounds, his credentials taken away.

Factual case.

Storm Cadet
07-08-2008, 11:25 PM
I dont know of anyone who's more anti-NYRA then I am... but without revealing the name of the executive who said this, as far as I'm concerned, it's flat out bull-shit.

So someone who know's Moran should ask him to come forward with the name.

If he's afraid to say, then he's a nothing but a body part quite often used in copulation!!!!


Here's Moran's web page and his email address is on lower left side: somebody should ask him!

http://paulmoranattheraces.blogspot.com/

highnote
07-08-2008, 11:52 PM
Power will concede nothing without a fight.

Is it time to fight for a new order?

Charlie D
07-09-2008, 12:15 AM
If a NYRA executive did say it, what action will you take????

the little guy
07-09-2008, 12:19 AM
No way. A couple of years ago a turf writer for the NY Post went to the paddock with a trainer friend of his, the owner and a few of the owner's friends.

Security gave the owner's friends a bit of a hard time, not allowing them into the paddock without proper ID, so the writer for the Post made wrote about the incident the next day in his column citing that he thought the security "threat" was ridiculous.

The Head of security at NYRA went to the press box the next dayafter the column appeared and intimidated the writer telling him not to write such thing's "or else".

The next year, the writer's father, a minor jockey agent, was barred from the grounds, his credentials taken away.

Factual case.


It's not a " factual case " at all......it's heresay as well and I think you know there is way more to the last part of the story.

As far as Moran's piece.....it's pretty interesting how in touch with the horseplayers Paul seems to be considering the amount of time he spent outside of the Press Box over the last 10 or more years in NY ( aside from entering and leaving the track ).

highnote
07-09-2008, 12:27 AM
If a NYRA executive did say it, what action will you take????


The first action is to be even more proactive in getting our organization HANA off the ground.

What would you suggest?

I'm a horseplayer and am extremely disappointed to know that any racing executive has negative sentiments toward the general horseplayer. Why would someone have disdain for the people who buy your product? That's like Quaker Oats saying f--- stay-at-home moms who buy our cereal for their kids. If consumers heard that an executive at Quaker Oats had that sentiment, do you think they'd keep buying Quaker Oats cereal?

From what I've been hearing, publicly and privately, from other horseplayers, and from my own experience, most racetracks have a deep disdain for their betting customers.

If it's true that an executive at NYRA said "f--- the horseplayers" then this fact should be disseminated far and wide and continually. There is no place for this sentiment in today's racing industry. It only drives the wedge further between, racetracks, horsemen, jockeys, owners, horseplayers, etc.

Charlie D
07-09-2008, 01:19 AM
What i do will have little effect, but true or not, i'll not be betting on a NYRA races

F---- the NYRA

Imriledup
07-09-2008, 01:22 AM
Name names. Lets hear who said this. This person deserves to have his name out there if this is true.

Charlie D
07-09-2008, 02:46 AM
The first action is to be even more proactive in getting our organization HANA off the ground.

What would you suggest?

.


Here's a suggestion, go ask your politicians why they place restrictions on your gambling activities

I can bet into US racing pools via https://secure1.racingus.com/ if i wish to, i can bet into US racing pools via UK bookmakers who are in partnership with companies like MEC if i wish to, i can also bet on US racing via the exchanges if i wish to


Land of the free ~ My arse

andicap
07-09-2008, 06:11 AM
It's not a " factual case " at all......it's heresay as well and I think you know there is way more to the last part of the story.

As far as Moran's piece.....it's pretty interesting how in touch with the horseplayers Paul seems to be considering the amount of time he spent outside of the Press Box over the last 10 or more years in NY ( aside from entering and leaving the track ).

But do you believe Moran's piece or that he just made it up? Just because he's really "in touch" with horseplayers has nothing to do with his credibility as a blogger. When he was a reporter, was he ever known for making up quotes like this?

Now I find it hard to believe a "top" NYRA executive would do this -- unless Moran meant some executive who is no longer at NYRA. That would make his piece technically true but incredibily misleading.

And who does he consider a "top" exec?
I seriously doubt the head of NYRA (Charlie ??? his last name escapes me at the moment) would say this -- he's a long-time friend of Steve Crist.

And yes, it is a "bush" journalistic move by Moran to anonymously quote someone while slamming a group. It would never get past most reputable editors' desks.

It's silly to boycott NYRA or take any action at all until we learn more.

Tom
07-09-2008, 07:19 AM
OK, Andy, no boycotts, but I refuse to tip the towel guy in the Men's room at Toga until I get some answers! :rolleyes:

Charlie D
07-09-2008, 07:23 AM
It's silly to boycott NYRA or take any action at all until we learn more.

It's not silly at all imo, as it's your money that pays these people and while you sit back and take the sh1te, they will keep taking the pee out of you, not only by treating with disrespect, but also by ripping you off with thier tote monopoly


These people have an attitude of feck the bettors, he/she wil just carry on losing thier hard earned


Rant over :)

the little guy
07-09-2008, 09:27 AM
While every racetrack should probably do more to cater to the horseplayers, the problem with this blog entry is that is is filled with misguided information. He criticizes NYRA for selling corperate sponsorship? I guess according to Paul they shouldn't have the same rights to earn that every major league sports arena in this country has. Whether or not any of us feel that advertising is ascetically pleasing, this is how organizations can help feed their bottom line, and these same people criticized NYRA for being bankrupt. So, now when they have aggressively found ways to improve their profits, they are being criticized for doing that. Maybe some people are fooled by this....but I'm not.

He is criticizing them for not marketing Curlin's appearance in the Man o War Saturday? Well, considering he wasn't licensed to race in NY until yesterday, what exactly does he think NYRA should have done....place ads all over the NY area saying " Come to Belmont Saturday....Curlin might race! " I can only imagine what Paul would have written had they wrongfully advertised his pending appearance when he didn't get the clearance to run. And, Paul's simply suggesting NYRA won't draw the crowds that he feels Curlin deserves offers no suggestions about how they should go about doing this. It is very easy to sit behind his computer, surely he rarely if ever even ventured around the racetrack when he was there every day, something that is no longer the case, but at least offer ONE idea as to how this could be done.

Then there is the " anonymous " employee. How convenient for him. I wonder why he waited over a month to reveal this earth shattering news. Seems to me if I were really concerned about the horseplayers, and something like this actually happened, I wouldn't have saved it for the final paragraphs of a blog entry four and a half weeks after it happened. But, hey, I spend my days hanging around the horseplayers at Belmont as one of them....unlike Paul Moran.

slewis
07-09-2008, 10:20 AM
It's not a " factual case " at all......it's heresay as well and I think you know there is way more to the last part of the story.

As far as Moran's piece.....it's pretty interesting how in touch with the horseplayers Paul seems to be considering the amount of time he spent outside of the Press Box over the last 10 or more years in NY ( aside from entering and leaving the track ).

Oh my.. what a wangled wittle web we want to weave.

Come to my office and I'll give YOU more of the FACTS of this case since I'm probably more involved then YOU know.

Bottom line to everyone in the free world that reads this posts is the following....
Subject in question DID NOT commit a crime, No police were called, no arrests made... NYRA barred subject from track, posted pictures for security to "arrest on site for tresspassing if seen". Informed subject that there was to be a hearing on a given date regarding his situation. They specifically told him DO NOT BRING YOUR LAWYER with you to this hearing. Subject obeyed (obvious mistake).
Held what I would call a "kangaroo" hearing barring subject from grounds.
Subject takes NYRA to court, judge rules that he can't specifically rule on the case "because NYRA's status as to who actually owns the land was in question, hence the "private property B.S." but tells NYRA it's clear to him that the punishment far exceeds the crime. Judge instructs NYRA to have another hearing and to allow council present.
Another "hearing" occurs with same result.
Want more "facts" Little Guy"????? You know where I sit.

Indulto
07-09-2008, 10:50 AM
While every racetrack should probably do more to cater to the horseplayers, the problem with this blog entry is that is is filled with misguided information. He criticizes NYRA for selling corperate sponsorship? I guess according to Paul they shouldn't have the same rights to earn that every major league sports arena in this country has. Whether or not any of us feel that advertising is ascetically pleasing, this is how organizations can help feed their bottom line, and these same people criticized NYRA for being bankrupt. So, now when they have aggressively found ways to improve their profits, they are being criticized for doing that. Maybe some people are fooled by this....but I'm not.

He is criticizing them for not marketing Curlin's appearance in the Man o War Saturday? Well, considering he wasn't licensed to race in NY until yesterday, what exactly does he think NYRA should have done....place ads all over the NY area saying " Come to Belmont Saturday....Curlin might race! " I can only imagine what Paul would have written had they wrongfully advertised his pending appearance when he didn't get the clearance to run. And, Paul's simply suggesting NYRA won't draw the crowds that he feels Curlin deserves offers no suggestions about how they should go about doing this. It is very easy to sit behind his computer, surely he rarely if ever even ventured around the racetrack when he was there every day, something that is no longer the case, but at least offer ONE idea as to how this could be done.

Then there is the " anonymous " employee. How convenient for him. I wonder why he waited over a month to reveal this earth shattering news. Seems to me if I were really concerned about the horseplayers, and something like this actually happened, I wouldn't have saved it for the final paragraphs of a blog entry four and a half weeks after it happened. But, hey, I spend my days hanging around the horseplayers at Belmont as one of them....unlike Paul Moran.tlg,
"In the interest of full disclosure," Moran was supportive enough of horseplayers to publish my essentially "players vs. horsemen" guest commentary, but I'd be taking his side now even if he had rejected my submission.

The congressional hearings proved that what wasn't said came across louder than what was -- that horseplayers are of no significance to racing's powers that be; something that Crist was among the first to point out.

In the wake of entry/comment discussions to that effect at several racing blogs -- capped off by the launch of the selfappointedfancommittee website -- Moran's piece of information was not only more relevant, but his responsibility to reveal it was more compelling.

And you might consider that by withholding the individual's name he might be protecting a source as well as allowing the individual in question to fall on his own sword; figuratively speaking of course.

There is no question that Moran has been speaking his mind more readily since he retired from Newsday and if you read his blog regularly, you will see that he increasingly says what has to be said. I think his journalistic and literary credentials speak for themselves, and I challenge you to repost the above as a comment to Moran's blog entry and allow him to respond to your innuendo directly.

DeanT
07-09-2008, 11:06 AM
While every racetrack should probably do more to cater to the horseplayers, the problem with this blog entry is that is is filled with misguided information. He criticizes NYRA for selling corperate sponsorship? I guess according to Paul they shouldn't have the same rights to earn that every major league sports arena in this country has. Whether or not any of us feel that advertising is ascetically pleasing, this is how organizations can help feed their bottom line, and these same people criticized NYRA for being bankrupt. So, now when they have aggressively found ways to improve their profits, they are being criticized for doing that. Maybe some people are fooled by this....but I'm not.

He is criticizing them for not marketing Curlin's appearance in the Man o War Saturday? Well, considering he wasn't licensed to race in NY until yesterday, what exactly does he think NYRA should have done....place ads all over the NY area saying " Come to Belmont Saturday....Curlin might race! " I can only imagine what Paul would have written had they wrongfully advertised his pending appearance when he didn't get the clearance to run. And, Paul's simply suggesting NYRA won't draw the crowds that he feels Curlin deserves offers no suggestions about how they should go about doing this. It is very easy to sit behind his computer, surely he rarely if ever even ventured around the racetrack when he was there every day, something that is no longer the case, but at least offer ONE idea as to how this could be done.

Then there is the " anonymous " employee. How convenient for him. I wonder why he waited over a month to reveal this earth shattering news. Seems to me if I were really concerned about the horseplayers, and something like this actually happened, I wouldn't have saved it for the final paragraphs of a blog entry four and a half weeks after it happened. But, hey, I spend my days hanging around the horseplayers at Belmont as one of them....unlike Paul Moran.
Decent point on Curlin.

However, I do not agree with the other points. Marketing of the sport is something that is not done as we should, and Moran said that. He did not say sponsorships were bad. He said sponsorships alone are bad.

And as for an anonymous source, so what? It is a blog, not a newpaper and it is opinion. He was sharing an anecdote.

highnote
07-09-2008, 11:33 AM
I am in favor of as much advertising as possible. Let jockeys wear ads. Put a big fat ad on a horse's rump. Who cares, as long as the ads don't slow the horses down?

Ads don't seem to affect the speed of NASCAR race cars. In fact, they're probably faster. Ad revenue and sponsorship money can be poured into research.

Ad revenue on a horse could benefit owners and perhaps even make it profitable for more people to own horses. Perhaps a share of the ad revenue could go to purse money?

Maybe the owner pays a $15 dollar fee to the purse fund whenever a horse wears an ad? Maybe a jockey pays a $5 fee to a purse fund whenever he/she wears an ad?

Maybe a $1 fee is paid by an owner who runs any horse wearing an ad or by a jockey wearing an ad? The fee would go to a general equine medicine fund or equine retirement fund.

cj
07-09-2008, 11:38 AM
I don't see any problem with ads. Soccer, the biggest sport in the world, has every player wearing an ad as the main feature on their jersey. I found it strange at first, but once you see it a few times, you forget about it.

highnote
07-09-2008, 11:52 AM
I don't see any problem with ads. Soccer, the biggest sport in the world, has every player wearing an ad as the main feature on their jersey. I found it strange at first, but once you see it a few times, you forget about it.


I couldn't agree more. Who prohibits jockeys and horses from wearing ads? Racetracks.

I'm surprised jockeys tolerate this.

Tom
07-09-2008, 12:35 PM
Don't the owners control the silks?
I would think that with all the money it costs to bring a horse to a race, the owner should have the say as to what covers up his silks.

George Sands
07-09-2008, 12:36 PM
It's not a " factual case " at all......it's heresay as well ).

What the hell is "heresay"? Is that like a new legal term or something?

cj
07-09-2008, 12:38 PM
Don't the owners control the silks?
I would think that with all the money it costs to bring a horse to a race, the owner should have the say as to what covers up his silks.

In the past, they have put ads on their pants. Now, I am not sure who would be dumb enough to buy advertising on a jockeys pants, but it was done.

Cangamble
07-09-2008, 01:06 PM
Decent point on Curlin.

However, I do not agree with the other points. Marketing of the sport is something that is not done as we should, and Moran said that. He did not say sponsorships were bad. He said sponsorships alone are bad.

And as for an anonymous source, so what? It is a blog, not a newpaper and it is opinion. He was sharing an anecdote.
Personally, I don't care who said it. I'm sure that there are enough racing execs who feel the same way as that yo yo. That is all that really matters.
Now more people know what they think thanks to Moran.

Tom
07-09-2008, 01:43 PM
In the past, they have put ads on their pants. Now, I am not sure who would be dumb enough to buy advertising on a jockeys pants, but it was done.\

Preperation H maybe.

DJofSD
07-09-2008, 03:15 PM
Preperation H maybe.

Close. It's Cash Call.

andicap
07-09-2008, 06:44 PM
What the hell is "heresay"? Is that like a new legal term or something?

You're joking about the typo right? I'm sure he meant "hearsay" evidence.

andicap
07-09-2008, 06:54 PM
And as for an anonymous source, so what? It is a blog, not a newpaper and it is opinion. He was sharing an anecdote.

Blogs are subject to the same libel laws as newspapers and since credibility is at the heart of any type of non-fiction printed material, any good blogger or journalist must be careful using anonymous quotes.

I am a former editor and reporter, still a free-lance writer and let me tell you no reputable blog -- ones put out by "credible" journalistic sources -- will make up its own rules for reporting the news. For that's what Moran was doing -- he was "reporting" some news about what NYRA execs think of horseplayers.

Journalists use anonymous sources all the time. That's true. I did so every day. Otherwise you could not report what was really going on. But no good editor would let that quote go into a publication because there is a huge difference between reporting a fact, "according to sources close to the situation," and hiding behind anonymous quotes to attack a person or group.

The Wall Street Journal (to use a publication we all respect) might say that something to the effect of "privately some NYRA executives speak disparingly of horseplayers saying they will bet on the races no matter how they are treated."

But the Journal would not report -- even on a blog -- the incident in the way Moran did. You just dont attack people or a group by hiding behind anoymous quotes.


.

andicap
07-09-2008, 06:55 PM
It's not silly at all imo, as it's your money that pays these people and while you sit back and take the sh1te, they will keep taking the pee out of you, not only by treating with disrespect, but also by ripping you off with thier tote monopoly


These people have an attitude of feck the bettors, he/she wil just carry on losing thier hard earned


Rant over :)

Agreed, but why single out NYRA? Doesn't almost every track treat horseplayers like dirt? Why single out NYRA on the basis of a very flimsy anonymous quote?

mannyberrios
07-09-2008, 07:09 PM
Agreed, but why single out NYRA? Doesn't almost every track treat horseplayers like dirt? Why single out NYRA on the basis of a very flimsy anonymous quote?Sounds about right!:bang:

the little guy
07-09-2008, 10:04 PM
tlg,
"In the interest of full disclosure," Moran was supportive enough of horseplayers to publish my essentially "players vs. horsemen" guest commentary, but I'd be taking his side now even if he had rejected my submission.

The congressional hearings proved that what wasn't said came across louder than what was -- that horseplayers are of no significance to racing's powers that be; something that Crist was among the first to point out.

In the wake of entry/comment discussions to that effect at several racing blogs -- capped off by the launch of the selfappointedfancommittee website -- Moran's piece of information was not only more relevant, but his responsibility to reveal it was more compelling.

And you might consider that by withholding the individual's name he might be protecting a source as well as allowing the individual in question to fall on his own sword; figuratively speaking of course.

There is no question that Moran has been speaking his mind more readily since he retired from Newsday and if you read his blog regularly, you will see that he increasingly says what has to be said. I think his journalistic and literary credentials speak for themselves, and I challenge you to repost the above as a comment to Moran's blog entry and allow him to respond to your innuendo directly.


You seem to think I said, or meant, a lot of things I didn't. First of all, Paul Moran is an EXCELLENT writer, and I am glad that he seems to have refound his voice on his blog ( aside from reprinting NYRA press releases a little too often ).

My points were simple....IMO his claiming an anonymous NYRA executive said that has no credibility. I stand by that. If you disagree, fine, but I that's what I strongly believe. I also do not agree with him about NYRA earning money by selling sponsorships. In fact, it would be irresponsible of them not to attempt to earn what they can. And, finally, I believe his comments about how NYRA should be marketing Curlin's appearance are poorly thought out and feel to be a means to an end for him.

I would have no problem discussing all this with Paul, and imagine we will cross paths at some time in the near future. I am glad he is talking about racing, and writing about it, but I also do not agree with some of his opinions here. And, I don't think I disagreed unfairly in any manner.

Take care. I am done with this discussion.

Indulto
07-10-2008, 03:55 AM
It's not a " factual case " at all......it's heresay as well and I think you know there is way more to the last part of the story.

As far as Moran's piece.....it's pretty interesting how in touch with the horseplayers Paul seems to be considering the amount of time he spent outside of the Press Box over the last 10 or more years in NY ( aside from entering and leaving the track ).While every racetrack should probably do more to cater to the horseplayers, the problem with this blog entry is that is is filled with misguided information. He criticizes NYRA for selling corperate sponsorship? I guess according to Paul they shouldn't have the same rights to earn that every major league sports arena in this country has. Whether or not any of us feel that advertising is ascetically pleasing, this is how organizations can help feed their bottom line, and these same people criticized NYRA for being bankrupt. So, now when they have aggressively found ways to improve their profits, they are being criticized for doing that. Maybe some people are fooled by this....but I'm not.

He is criticizing them for not marketing Curlin's appearance in the Man o War Saturday? Well, considering he wasn't licensed to race in NY until yesterday, what exactly does he think NYRA should have done....place ads all over the NY area saying " Come to Belmont Saturday....Curlin might race! " I can only imagine what Paul would have written had they wrongfully advertised his pending appearance when he didn't get the clearance to run. And, Paul's simply suggesting NYRA won't draw the crowds that he feels Curlin deserves offers no suggestions about how they should go about doing this. It is very easy to sit behind his computer, surely he rarely if ever even ventured around the racetrack when he was there every day, something that is no longer the case, but at least offer ONE idea as to how this could be done.

Then there is the " anonymous " employee. How convenient for him. I wonder why he waited over a month to reveal this earth shattering news. Seems to me if I were really concerned about the horseplayers, and something like this actually happened, I wouldn't have saved it for the final paragraphs of a blog entry four and a half weeks after it happened. But, hey, I spend my days hanging around the horseplayers at Belmont as one of them....unlike Paul Moran.You seem to think I said, or meant, a lot of things I didn't. First of all, Paul Moran is an EXCELLENT writer, and I am glad that he seems to have refound his voice on his blog ( aside from reprinting NYRA press releases a little too often ).

My points were simple....IMO his claiming an anonymous NYRA executive said that has no credibility. I stand by that. If you disagree, fine, but I that's what I strongly believe. I also do not agree with him about NYRA earning money by selling sponsorships. In fact, it would be irresponsible of them not to attempt to earn what they can. And, finally, I believe his comments about how NYRA should be marketing Curlin's appearance are poorly thought out and feel to be a means to an end for him.

I would have no problem discussing all this with Paul, and imagine we will cross paths at some time in the near future. I am glad he is talking about racing, and writing about it, but I also do not agree with some of his opinions here. And, I don't think I disagreed unfairly in any manner.

Take care. I am done with this discussion.I think it was your second not so subtle inference that Moran wanted no contact with horseplayers -- other than those he worked and bet with in the press box -- that suggested to me that you were sowing seeds of suspicion that his support for horseplayers was as sudden as it was surprising. Is it now your contention that “hanging around the horseplayers at Belmont as one of them,” in the clubhouse boxes secures your own status as being at one with the “disenfranchised” players?

If I weren’t sure it was just you being you, I might have thought it was a hatchet job to discredit a critic of one’s cronies.

Take care.

YokohamaMary
07-10-2008, 05:04 AM
They should sell ads on jockey silks and the people who manufacture lasix should be encouraged to advertise. After all, lasix is great for inhibiting the deduction of all sorts of narcotics, stimulants and you name it in horses. We all know the average NY player gets as high as a kite and undergoes periodic testing in his workplace. He can just pop some lasix and appear clean right?

Imriledup
07-10-2008, 07:56 AM
[QUOTE=andicap]Agreed, but why single out NYRA?

Because we have to start somewhere.

takeout
07-10-2008, 09:32 AM
The daily actions of track management (and horsemen too) are all the proof anyone needs of what their attitude is toward the horseplayer, whether they verbalize it or not.
You nailed it!

Charlie D
07-10-2008, 12:25 PM
Agreed, but why single out NYRA? Doesn't almost every track treat horseplayers like dirt? Why single out NYRA on the basis of a very flimsy anonymous quote?



It may be flimsy andicap, but i think there may be something to it and until i find out otherwise, it's F--- the NYRA


Customer power is all i have and i will use it when i think i'm being shafted by those inside racing


My money will spend anywhere, be it at a another track in US, a UK track, Aussie, track using UK bookmakers or Betfair

The NYRA needs customers like me, but i don't need the NYRA

Charlie D
07-10-2008, 01:14 PM
Here's UK customer power

Race 1 Belmont

25 thousand US dollars traded


Stop Betfair putting markets up like Calafornia have and that money just goes elsewhere


Who is losing out?? the NYRA, Calafornia racing, the horsemen and US goverment

Bruddah
07-10-2008, 01:40 PM
It may be flimsy andicap, but i think there may be something to it and until i find out otherwise, it's F--- the NYRA


Customer power is all i have and i will use it when i think i'm being shafted by those inside racing

My money will spend anywhere, be it at a another track in US, a UK track, Aussie, track using UK bookmakers or Betfair

The NYRA needs customers like me, but i don't need the NYRA

I haven't bet NYRA races for over 3 years because I was tired of all the scandals and obvious thieves which ran the place. We all decide as consumers where we spend our dollars. As individuals we aren't missed when we boycott, but when United we do have an impact. Unfortunately, most who follow the horses are degenerate gamblers and can't miss a day or week of action. Just like the hoity toity's running this industry know and scoff at. :mad:

Charlie D
07-10-2008, 01:49 PM
A good post Bruddah imo

Mon R3

69 thousand US dollars traded


Racings rulers , Horsemen and US goverment all missing out on the Cash Cow that is Exchange betting


Do you think they should negotiate for a piece of the cake or let Betfair carry on making thousands of dollars????

TheGhost
07-10-2008, 04:43 PM
If anyone thinks NYRA cares about its fans,they are nuts :D . They could care less and anyone who's been to the tracks knows this. That "F the horseplayers" is no shock.

Imriledup
07-10-2008, 04:45 PM
If anyone thinks NYRA cares about its fans,they are nuts :D . They could care less and anyone who's been to the tracks knows this. That "F the horseplayers" is no shock.

Wouldn't you just LOVE to know who said it?

TheGhost
07-10-2008, 04:50 PM
"Would'nt you love to know who said it?"

No not really. They all think that way. They ALL say it. What's the shock? Anyone who's been around NY tracks can easily see that they think the fans are idiots and treats them as so. Shame.

Indulto
07-10-2008, 05:17 PM
Blogs are subject to the same libel laws as newspapers and since credibility is at the heart of any type of non-fiction printed material, any good blogger or journalist must be careful using anonymous quotes.

I am a former editor and reporter, still a free-lance writer and let me tell you no reputable blog -- ones put out by "credible" journalistic sources -- will make up its own rules for reporting the news. For that's what Moran was doing -- he was "reporting" some news about what NYRA execs think of horseplayers.

Journalists use anonymous sources all the time. That's true. I did so every day. Otherwise you could not report what was really going on. But no good editor would let that quote go into a publication because there is a huge difference between reporting a fact, "according to sources close to the situation," and hiding behind anonymous quotes to attack a person or group.

The Wall Street Journal (to use a publication we all respect) might say that something to the effect of "privately some NYRA executives speak disparingly of horseplayers saying they will bet on the races no matter how they are treated."

But the Journal would not report -- even on a blog -- the incident in the way Moran did. You just dont attack people or a group by hiding behind anoymous quotes.Dicker of the New York Post does it all the time. Remember his quoting Paterson's remarks re: Bloomberg following the OTB takeover?

So you'd prefer that Moran withhold the full impact of the exec's statement even though nothing short of the actual quote could demonstrate how despised are the customers of this despicable dullard whose decisions determine the depth of the sport's decline?

Are real journalists expected to know when their readers deserve the truth? ;)

andicap
07-10-2008, 06:58 PM
without start a flame-war that would venture into off-topic most reputable journalists would hardly call the NY Post a beacon of journalism. It is a scandal sheet.

Imriledup
07-10-2008, 07:21 PM
"Would'nt you love to know who said it?"

No not really. They all think that way. They ALL say it. What's the shock? Anyone who's been around NY tracks can easily see that they think the fans are idiots and treats them as so. Shame.

Because if they can pin the quote to an actual person, that exec would have to deal with it.

andicap
07-10-2008, 07:23 PM
So which UK county is "God's County?"




A good post Bruddah imo

Mon R3

69 thousand US dollars traded


Racings rulers , Horsemen and US goverment all missing out on the Cash Cow that is Exchange betting


Do you think they should negotiate for a piece of the cake or let Betfair carry on making thousands of dollars????

BombsAway Bob
07-10-2008, 07:50 PM
While every racetrack should probably do more to cater to the horseplayers, the problem with this blog entry is that is is filled with misguided information....Maybe some people are fooled by this....but I'm not.

He is criticizing them for not marketing Curlin's appearance in the Man o War Saturday? Well, considering he wasn't licensed to race in NY until yesterday, what exactly does he think NYRA should have done....place ads all over the NY area saying " Come to Belmont Saturday....Curlin might race! " I can only imagine what Paul would have written had they wrongfully advertised his pending appearance when he didn't get the clearance to run. And, Paul's simply suggesting NYRA won't draw the crowds that he feels Curlin deserves offers no suggestions about how they should go about doing this. It is very easy to sit behind his computer, surely he rarely if ever even ventured around the racetrack when he was there every day, something that is no longer the case, but at least offer ONE idea as to how this could happen. ...But, hey, I spend my days hanging around the horseplayers at Belmont as one of them....unlike Paul Moran.
E-Mail from NYRA today...


http://www.enflyer.com/app/file_root/12011/Images/Curlin_ManOWar_Email.jpg (http://www.enflyer.com/s/r?ib=12011;78334;94711;-1;25496;32519&id=126770)

trigger
07-10-2008, 09:44 PM
without start a flame-war that would venture into off-topic most reputable journalists would hardly call the NY Post a beacon of journalism. It is a scandal sheet.

Hey, the headline writer for the NYPost is great!
Recent good one for an article about the closing of a strip joint that had been around for a while:
"Thanks For The Mammaries"
:D

YokohamaMary
07-10-2008, 09:46 PM
Also I got the below from the NYRA today. Things are looking up folks because the connection to Curlin is obvious (he won't be doped up!


http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-02-23-Mackie.jpg

BombsAway Bob
07-10-2008, 10:28 PM
Also I got the below from the NYRA today. Things are looking up folks because the connection to Curlin is obvious (he won't be doped up!


http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-02-23-Mackie.jpg
"...MMMMKAY!?...." :cool:

highnote
07-10-2008, 10:29 PM
A good post Bruddah imo

Mon R3

69 thousand US dollars traded


Racings rulers , Horsemen and US goverment all missing out on the Cash Cow that is Exchange betting


Do you think they should negotiate for a piece of the cake or let Betfair carry on making thousands of dollars????


The U.S. racing industry will start their own betting exchange at some point. There will be good opportunities to arbitrage between the two markets.

Spendabuck85
09-17-2008, 03:14 PM
Looks like Paul Moran has now identified the NYRA excutive:

Gavin Landry, whose contributions to racing in New York are defined by the buffoonish invention of NYRA Nation, the short-lived and widely ignored mascot Auggie Belmont, the elitist, failed Saratoga “preferred access,” the large piece of wooden furniture now in the clubhouse lobby at Belmont Park and the infamous quote: “ ---- the horseplayers,” is no longer an officer of the New York Racing Association.

http://paulmoranattheraces.blogspot.com/

OTM Al
09-17-2008, 06:12 PM
Just a hint to the accuracy and quality of research on the article, the mascot was named "Augie" not "Auggie Belmont" and was not as some wanted to report, named for Augustus Belmont. There is much more, but I think that item is neutral enough that I feel that I can comment on it. Personally I thought Augie was kind of funny, but unlike some people out there I think I have a sense of humor.....

OTM Al
09-18-2008, 01:34 PM
This was in the press today. Nice to see that some people still show some class, unlike the writer of the previously listed piece

http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2008/sep/18/0918_landry/