Curlin in the Man O'War

[MickJ26]

Daily Racing Form is announcing on their website that Curlin has been cleared to run at Belmont in this Saturday's Man O'War. I hope the folks at NYRA promote the hell out of this and maybe get an on track crowd of 20,000 +.
I, for one, will be there rooting on Big Man.

[uncbossfan]

I completely agree. Connections are quoted as saying they want to win the Arc then go for a repeat of the Breeders Cup Classic. They wan him to do something no other horse has ever done.

How can you not get on board with that. I could give a crap where people want to rank him in history. Fact is he is running when everybody else retires after what he's accomplished. He's going to obliterate the career earnings record, he hit the board in all 3 triple crown races with no foundation as a 2 yr old, while winning the Preakness. Attempting to win on Dirt, whatever you want to call Dubai's surface, Turf, and Synthetic - all against the best the ENTIRE WORLD has to throw a him.

I saw him in the Foster at CD and was mesmorized. I wish him all the luck in the world and will be cheering my hear out for him.

[wegoosewe]

i cant wait to see it.. i will watch it over and over again... i really think he has a shot in this won after looking at the entries PP's if he takes to the grass like his dirt efforts he should win in a romp.

[The Hawk]

I hope the folks at NYRA promote the hell out of this and maybe get an on track crowd of 20,000 +.
I, for one, will be there rooting on Big Man.

20,000? They better get those 55 gallon drums ready again...

[46zilzal]

Fingers crossed that he makes a good step forward.......BUT, I might be inclined to bet against him.

[wegoosewe]

Fingers crossed that he makes a good step forward.......BUT, I might be inclined to bet against him.

i can see that.. I mean looking at his pedigree. sire is only a B for turf starts not bad but the broodmare sire is an C for turf starts. But what might help him in this race is his class its hard to ignore that.

[Tom]

I hope Desormouex doesn't ride him! :eek:

[Bruddah]

I don't think they want to wring the horse dry. They (connections) would be happy with a close place or show. If he is competitive, they won't ask him for all in a stretch drive. Just something showing competitiveness at this level on the grass, with room for improvement. Curlin still has a long way to go and a short time to get there. To me, it will be a mile stone to get the horse competitive turning right. His entire life, all he has known is going left and making those leed changes.

A lot to ask of any horse, let alone, at the very top level of Thoroughbred racing in the world. But, I love the attempt by all concerned. They will be hailed as hero's or dunces for trying. (JMHO)

[whyhorseofcourse]

This is a great field.
Honestly if I bet the race I would leave curlin off my ticket.
I am shocked that the connections did not put him in a softer field.

[cj's dad]

I read the DRF article; it didn't give the distance. 1 1/4 ?

[cj's dad]

never mind- found it 1 3/16

[OTM Al]

The field is nothing compared to what he would face in Europe. Red Rocks finished 6th in his latest group 1 start over there. If Curlin cannot beat him, then he stands 0 chance if he goes over there.

[whyhorseofcourse]

The field is nothing compared to what he would face in Europe. Red Rocks finished 6th in his latest group 1 start over there. If Curlin cannot beat him, then he stands 0 chance if he goes over there.

They are still great horses, the connections will either look like geniuses or dunces.

[46zilzal]

Part of being good is having experience. If this first step is a good one, improvement can be down the road.

[joanied]

This is a great field.
Honestly if I bet the race I would leave curlin off my ticket.
I am shocked that the connections did not put him in a softer field.

I went looking for the field..DRF, BloodHorse & NYRA...they have entires for all dates BUt Saturday...besides Grand Courtier, Better Talk Now and Red Rocks...what is the rest of the field?

His connections wanted a tough field so they see how he measures up against some of the better turf horses...a good idea, IMO.

If Red Rocks is right, he's going to be mighty tough. I would love to see BTN run a really good race...the old boy may be up against it, but I love that horse. Don't know much about Grand C...except that Calvin Borel rides.

I see ESPN will televise. I can't wait to see Curlin do his thing on the grass:jump:

[The Hawk]

They are still great horses, the connections will either look like geniuses or dunces.

Not sure I'd say "dunces". You have to give them credit for A) keeping the horse in training in the first place and B) for exploring all avenues. Granted, it may not work, but aren't we all a little curious to see how this works out?

[Cratos]

They are still great horses, the connections will either look like geniuses or dunces.

Curlin has beaten the best horses in the world on dirt in the two top racing venues, the Breeders’ Cup Classic and the Dubai World Cup. He is now the third greatest earner in thoroughbred racing history behind Cigar and Skip Away and he is only 4yo, a young 4yo because never raced at 2yo.

His connections should be applauded for keeping him in training after his 2007 BC Classic win and again for maybe taking him to a place (the Arc) where American horses of his statue and accomplishment typically don’t go because they go to the breeding shed.

[PaceAdvantage]

I see ESPN will televise. I can't wait to see Curlin do his thing on the grass:jump:ESPNews channel will televise it live, not the regular ESPN or ESPN2 channels...

http://www.bloodhorse.com/article/46068/espnews-to-televise-man-o-war-stakes.htm

[joanied]

ESPNews channel will televise it live, not the regular ESPN or ESPN2 channels...

http://www.bloodhorse.com/article/46068/espnews-to-televise-man-o-war-stakes.htm

Holymoly...thanks for the heads up...all I saw was the big black letters ESPN...better go re set my record timer!!
Thanks:)

[cj]

I find it ridiculous that at this time, there are still no DRF PPs available for New York. Why can't New York get the card done sooner like nearly every other track?

[Tom]

ESPNews channel will televise it live, not the regular ESPN or ESPN2 channels...

http://www.bloodhorse.com/article/46068/espnews-to-televise-man-o-war-stakes.htm

What's the matter - Home Shopping Network booked?
How many people get that channel?:rolleyes:

Hope there's no Little League Home Run Derby on that day.

[Burls]

I hope Desormouex doesn't ride him! :eek:I think Robby Albarado will keep riding him. Albarado has already been test riding Curlin on some of the turf workouts at CD.

[Burls]

Fingers crossed that he makes a good step forward.......BUT, I might be inclined to bet against him.
It all depends on odds, doesn't it?
Which brings up the question: What kind of odds would you need to bet on Curlin in the Man O' War?

[joanied]

I find it ridiculous that at this time, there are still no DRF PPs available for New York. Why can't New York get the card done sooner like nearly every other track?

MeToo:mad: But...here ya go...finally got the PP's for the Man O War---

http://www.drf.com/entries/12/eBEL12.html?rn=337733#9

ALL race on Lasix. Look at Curlin's weight assignment... guess he gets a break because it's first time on grass.

I pick em:

Curlin
Better Talk Now
Red Rocks
Grand Couturier

Good luck!!

[46zilzal]

When, THINK HARD, When was the last time the potential for greatness was even entertained let alone attempted???

No matter the outcome, this quest is the essence of Teddy's great statement: "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by
failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt
26th president of US (1858 - 1919)

[PaceAdvantage]

When, THINK HARD, When was the last time the potential for greatness was even entertained let alone attempted???Oh, I don't know....about five weeks ago?

[46zilzal]

Oh, I don't know....about five weeks ago?
Not in the last DECADE and more.....Without historical perspective, and that makes up the majority opinion here, the yardstick for greatness is guesswork

Big Brown Great? not even close to the arena of greatness...Nothing unique or memorable other than a good three year old.

The immortals in racing did the difficult things versus the best and overcame adversity to show their true colors, not this one.

[PaceAdvantage]

Big Brown Great? not even close to the arena of greatness...Nothing unique or memorable other than a good three year old.You said the POTENTIAL for greatness. Winning the triple crown, which BB had a chance to do, set him up for POTENTIAL greatness.

Read your comment again before replying to me with your nonsense.

The ruling from the stewards stand:

The last time the potential for greatness was even entertained let alone attempted was about five weeks ago in the Belmont Stakes.

[Marshall Bennett]

You said the POTENTIAL for greatness. Winning the triple crown, which BB had a chance to do, set him up for POTENTIAL greatness.

Read your comment again before replying to me with your nonsense.

The ruling from the stewards stand:

The last time the potential for greatness was even entertained let alone attempted was about five weeks ago in the Belmont Stakes.
Has a real problem understanding even his own post . Greatness in his eyes is through a mirror , plain & simple . Zilly is one of a kind , at least in this forum .

[sally]

So I figure we're really looking to see who comes in second and third-- if Curlin is as good as he seems he should adapt to turf eh? So, looks like Mission Approved and Sudan go to the front-- I like the running style of Grand Couturier--and I like Borel. Where are Red Rocks recent workouts? If Sudan controls the pace--and Curlin for some reason doesn't show up, I like Grand Couturier...

anyway-- should be fun to watch!! :jump:

[lilmegahertz]

ESPNews channel will televise it live, not the regular ESPN or ESPN2 channels...

http://www.bloodhorse.com/article/46068/espnews-to-televise-man-o-war-stakes.htm

OK with DISH network, what channel is that??? I cannot find it in the listings anywhere. HELP!!! Or do I need to watch TVG or HRTV for the coverage?

[toetoe]

cj's dad,

Correction, please. 1 and 3/8 miles, sir.

sally,

I LOVE Grand Couturier tomorrow. I just don't want fractions of :51, 1:17, 1:42, etc., y'know ?

[Pace Cap'n]

OK with DISH network, what channel is that??? I cannot find it in the listings anywhere. HELP!!! Or do I need to watch TVG or HRTV for the coverage?

Dish Network = 142

[sally]

sally,

I LOVE Grand Couturier tomorrow. I just don't want fractions of :51, 1:17, 1:42, etc., y'know ?

I would if I understood this pace thing better...:( ...:rolleyes:

[cj's dad]

I'm such an idiot at times- Thanks for the correction. BTW- I'm goin g with Better Talk Now- love that guy !!!!cj's dad,

Correction, please. 1 and 3/8 miles, sir.

sally,

I LOVE Grand Couturier tomorrow. I just don't want fractions of :51, 1:17, 1:42, etc., y'know ?

[whyhorseofcourse]

Pretty excited about this race tomorrow.
I guess my opinion on the race came across pretty poorly.
I was thinking the connections would stick him in an allowance race just like War Pass.
Any guesses on post time odds of curlin?

[broadreach]

Pinnacle have him at 1.518

[whyhorseofcourse]

Pinnacle have him at 1.518
1.58/1???
As in 3/2ish??

I think its going to be a lot lower then that.

[Burls]

1.58/1???
As in 3/2ish??

I think its going to be a lot lower then that.The M/L is 3/5.

[broadreach]

1.518 = slightly better than 1/2.

[Tuffmug]

His recent turf work and dirt work don't give me any confidence in him.

[Marshall Bennett]

Never raced on the turf , 3/5 , I'll look elsewhere . Better talk now should come with some value , 50 bucks to win :p

[jonnielu]

Never raced on the turf , 3/5 , I'll look elsewhere . Better talk now should come with some value , 50 bucks to win :p

Curlin is a good horse, best at 10f on the dirt, he is one that has the talent to give you the same even run at that distance every time. But, 1 3/8 miles on the lawn is a little different, and who would want to bet any horse at 3/5 or less?

Grand Courturier is the biggest threat to still this victory from Curlin, but stealing is rarely done on grass at distance with speed, that sneaky Borel would do it ala rags to riches in the great grass race tradition of sticking a nose out at the last second.

jdl

[46zilzal]

Grand Courturier is the biggest threat to still this victory from Curlin, but stealing is rarely done on grass at distance with speed, that sneaky Borel would do it ala rags to riches in the great grass race tradition of sticking a nose out at the last second.

On paper, Grand Couturier can move later, but TOO late as he is a one run closer.....If Curlin even adapts a little, he has the tactical speed to be out close to the lead then move, IF HE ADAPTS.

[Tom]

TVG said they will show it live.

[Cratos]

Curlin is a good horse, best at 10f on the dirt, he is one that has the talent to give you the same even run at that distance every time. But, 1 3/8 miles on the lawn is a little different, and who would want to bet any horse at 3/5 or less?

Grand Courturier is the biggest threat to still this victory from Curlin, but stealing is rarely done on grass at distance with speed, that sneaky Borel would do it ala rags to riches in the great grass race tradition of sticking a nose out at the last second.

jdl

Distance should not be the gating item in Curlin’s defeat on grass in the Man O’War if he should be defeated. It will be his adaptability to the turf surface which he should do because of his breeding and his affinity for the off track.

Additionally, Curlin has ran beyond 10f once in his lifetime and lost to the very good filly, Rags to Riches by a head. But in that race he would run the last quarter in 23.83 seconds which clearly shows that he doesn’t have a stamina problem.

However there are two big “ifs” in the Man O’War that might hamper Curlin and they are “if” Curlin don’t adapt to the turf surface with the same ability that he has shown on dirt and “if” the pace in the Man O’War is not legitimate Curlin might have a problem, but if the “ifs” are not the obstacles, I believe he will win authoritatively and might even threaten the track record.

[JustRalph]

Mission Approved at long odds...........folly? small bets..........

[joanied]

This is a great weekend for races... some are going to be pretty hard to pick a winner...hope you guys that handicap do well with your picks.
I think the most difficult, and maybe a race you wouldn't bet anyway, will be the Delaware H'cap. I am torn between Unbridled Belle & Hysterical Lady. HL's last was a heart breaker, so close, and I know her connections want to retire her. I love both these mares, and the perfect finish for me would be Hysterical Lady by a neck over Unbrideled Belle.
The Delaware Oaks has to be Proud Spell...Jones wouldn't run her if she wasn't 100% off that Mother Goose fiasco... I see her winning with She's All Eltish & African Violet
In the Barbaro, only one horse for me... Micheal Matz' Ready Set...love to see Matz win another Barbaro Stakes...Z Humor & Roman Emperor for place & show.
The Poker should be great...Kip Deville all the way!!
Love to see Col. John take the Swaps, Two Step Salsa will be hard to beat, and because of the Smith/Sheriff's combo, I like Madeo.
Summit of Speed should also be great racing and tons of fun. Gotta love the Canadian Champ, Dancing All Star...I also like Indyanne & Grand Obsession in there.
Carry Back... Lantana Mob, Golden Spikes & Salute the Sarge.
Smile... I think Dutrow will be doing that after this race...I think Rockerfeller will give Benny a run for it, but benny will take down another win.
The Princess Rooney is another toughie, but I'll go with Dream Rush, Mystical Plan & Looky Yonder.
Man O War...still looking for Curlin to win, and still like Red Rocks (despite his poor races recently) and if Curlin can't win...I'd love to see Better Talk Now in the winner's circle...just adore the ol' boy!!

Good :ThmbUp: luck to all and may all the best horses win:jump:

OH...I just had a thought for the Del H'cap...dead heat between UB & HL:)

[Marshall Bennett]

TVG said they will show it live.
:D :D Then I'll beleive it when I see it . The more I watch this network the more my stomach hurts . Without Rich Perloff and Jill Byrne this would be a laughing stock , why they stay there is beyond me ??

[trying2win]

As a Canadian, I don't have access to the live video for the Man O' War Stakes at Belmont Park ....and I can't find any coverage of the race either in the TV listingshttp://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/62.gif...Oh well, what can you do eh? With all the races to handicap yet, probably won't have the time to take a trip to our local racetrack to watch the race on the big screen there.


T2W

[Burls]

Curlin has got a 332 Tomlinson Turf Rating, which is good enough.
He's also got a strong closing style which is nicely suited for turf (and poly, dare I say).
He's got the 7 post which is ideal for him.
He's had 28 days off since the Foster, so 11 furlongs shouldn't be a problem for him.
I'm guessing that:
1) the pace will be around 0:48, 1:12, 1:37, 1:50.
2) Curlin will casually drift to the rail from the 7 spot and let others take the lead.
3) around 9 furlongs he'll make his move so that he'll be abreast with the lead coming 2 or 3 w off the final turn
4) then we'll see Curlin's patented long stride finish put him in the front on grass for the first time.

All in all, things look pretty good for Curlin in this race, I think.
But with a 3/5 M/L which, I'm guessing, will result in 1/2 Post Time odds, I'm going to have to pass this race.
But I'll be cheering Curlin on with no moolah wagered.

[Burls]

But with a 3/5 M/L which, I'm guessing, will result in 1/2 Post Time odds, I'm going to have to pass this race.
Okay, I lied.
I can't resist betting something.
$1 TRI 7/1,6/1,6 = $2
Talk about a shameless chalk bet.
If this TRI comes in, I think it'll pay somewhere in the 4 dollar range.
I'm not sure there's even any value in that bet, but for two bucks I'll throw caution to the wind.

[Yoshiii]

Can't someone post live commentary? :)

[Tom]

I'm betting the three TC winners, just because they are there.
How often can you do that?

(I once boxed two Triple Crown winners - and lost! - to Exceller.) :eek:

[Tom]

Sudan going to the front.....duelling.
Curlin 4th early.

[Tom]

Curlin picking up now.....but no CIGAR

[Tom]

Red Rocks wins.
Curlin second.
BTN third.

Curlin not getting to the winner late.
Not the stretch run you need in the Arc.

[Yoshiii]

Too bad he still got 2nd, place layed him ;) thnx for comm.

[Tom]

Ad of course, TVG couldn't wait to cut away to some "who cares race" from Monmouth." :mad::ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

They never hesitate to delay races while the dipstick yak, but the big race, and Noooooooo, we gotta run...buh-bye.

TVG could not suck more if they tried.

[sally]

Nice pickin' Joanied, you had a couple trifectas today....

[jognlope]

Well then Joanied can start pickin my horses, I ain't pickin none. "ridiculous" and "suicidal" Tom Durkin said of the pace.

[juanepstein]

noticed curlin came out of the gate on the wrong lead which could of put him to far back.

[Burls]

1) the pace will be around 0:48, 1:12, 1:37, 1:50.
2) Curlin will casually drift to the rail from the 7 spot and let others take the lead.
3) around 9 furlongs he'll make his move so that he'll be abreast with the lead coming 2 or 3 w off the final turn
4) then we'll see Curlin's patented long stride finish put him in the front on grass for the first time.
I got 2 and 3 right.
Regarding 1, I didn't count on the two rabbits burning themselves out like that for the early pace lines, but no one was really buying that anyway.
Regarding 4, that is a problem for Curlin. If I was Stevie Wonder, I'd run Curlin in one more turf race before even making the definite committment to take him over to Europe.

Oh, and my two bucks is gone forever.
That's what you get for betting for your heart instead of your head.

[TheGhost]

I got 2 and 3 right.
Regarding 1, I didn't count on the two rabbits burning themselves out like that for the early pace lines, but no one was really buying that anyway.
Regarding 4, that is a problem for Curlin. If I was Stevie Wonder, I'd run Curlin in one more turf race before even making the definite committment to take him over to Europe.

Oh, and my two bucks is gone forever.
That's what you get for betting for your heart instead of your head.

Well Curlin always runs from off the pace and closes to win(usually swinging 2-3 wide). That was no shocker.

[ghostyapper]

Not a bad turf debut especially against 2 BC turf winners but the troubling thing I saw for curlin was how Better Talk Now blew past him after the wire.

What an amazing animal BTN is, still racing at such a high level at 9.

[Marshall Bennett]

I think his performance was not that of a champion . If this were boxing , I'd say he was knocked out !!

[magwell]

I think his performance was not that of a champion . If this were boxing , I'd say he was knocked out !! You must have seen a different race.......:bang:

[TheGhost]

He obviously lost alot of money on Curlin today to be knocking the horse all over the boards. He said on another thread that that G1 2nd place finish just cost Curlins people millions in breeding. Yup Curlin can't run a lick:rolleyes:

[Marshall Bennett]

He obviously lost alot of money on Curlin today to be knocking the horse all over the boards. He said on another thread that that G1 2nd place finish just cost Curlins people millions in breeding.
Cost me nothing . Check the thread where I said I wouldn't bet on him . I didn't bet the race at all ... and I'll stand by my quote on what it cost his owners .

[TheGhost]

Cost me nothing . Check the thread where I said I wouldn't bet on him . I didn't bet the race at all ... and I'll stand by my quote on what it cost his owners .

Yup,a 2nd place finish to Red Rocks(B.C winner) in a G1 turf race is going to cost the owners millions in breeding money! Boy,Curlin sure proved today that he can not run on turf at all.:D Don't run his babies on turf. The best they will do is run 2nd in a G1 race to a B.C. turf winner. No future at all.

[Marshall Bennett]

Yup,a 2nd place finish to Red Rocks(B.C winner) in a G1 turf race is going to cost the owners millions in breeding money! Boy,Curlin sure proved today that he can not run on turf at all.:D Don't run his babies on turf. The best they will do is run 2nd in a G1 race to a B.C. turf winner. No future at all.
..bottom line .... he lost :) should have stayed on dirt , more value .

[TheGhost]

..bottom line .... he lost :) should have stayed on dirt , more value .

HAHAHAHA too funny!

[Shenanigans]

..bottom line .... he lost :) should have stayed on dirt , more value .

He lost no value as a stallion whatsoever. He ran a hell of a race for his first time on turf. I wouldn't exactly count the horse out as a turf horse either. Second place in that race isn't screaming the horse can't take the turf. You're wrong if you think his second place finish in his first turf race is going to hurt his value, hell, now he's even attractive to the turf breeders.

[Marshall Bennett]

HAHAHAHA too funny!
as in value of the horse ... not your bankroll :) :)

[OTM Al]

I was privilaged to be in the paddock before the race. He looks so much like a sprinter than a turfer. He is a very calm fellow too and very well behaved. As for the race, he was very wide much of the way around and the way Red Rocks fanned him out at the head of the stretch pretty much ended his bid. He didn't have a good start either and needed to have been closer to Red Rocks throughout, which may have enabled him to avoid being fanned out. Pretty sure he covered much more ground than the winner. Too bad trackus isn't at all tracks. Got to say too that Better Talk Now does not look 9 years old. Old guy like Evening Attire has those big old knobbly knees, but this guy looks long and lean like a much younger horse.

I think it was a very good first turf effort. Got to mark it up as a tweener though given what they wanted to try. He was good enough to try turf again, but with that finish he is about 7-8 lengths behind the best of the Euros.

[TheGhost]

HAHAHA quiet Marshall. You obviously do not know what you are talking about or know how to bet because on threads you have said that you would never bet on him on turf because of this race and his value went down millions now. Yup,a 2nd place finish in a G1 to a B.C. turf winner is a horrible bet in the future and proves his babies won't be able to handle turf. What a horrible race he ran!:D

[MickJ26]

Curlin did not embarrass or disappoint. Robby took him a little wide turning for home and he started to really eat up ground before he flattened out late. If Robby were able to save a little ground, Curlin may have won. Red Rocks has tons of class and Javier gave him a great ride. I'm hoping Jackson and Asmussen still take a shot at The Arc. If not, then, maybe the Sword Dancer next month.

[Charlie D]

I'd kick Arc into touch, he's not a 12f horse, back to 10f on Dirt, Turf or Sythetic imo

[ezrabrooks]

Hey Al, I know that Curlin is a big'en, but when they left the gate, on the TV feed he towered over the field in size...was he actually that much larger than the rest of the field?

[Marshall Bennett]

HAHAHA quiet Marshall. You obviously do not know what you are talking about or know how to bet because on threads you have said that you would never bet on him on turf because of this race and his value went down millions now. Yup,a 2nd place finish in a G1 to a B.C. turf winner is a horrible bet in the future and proves his babies won't be able to handle turf. What a horrible race he ran!:D
Your construction of this post must have exhausted you !! :lol:

[jonnielu]

On paper, Grand Couturier can move later, but TOO late as he is a one run closer.....If Curlin even adapts a little, he has the tactical speed to be out close to the lead then move, IF HE ADAPTS.

Curlin doesn't have any tactical speed.

jdl

[OTM Al]

Its not that he is bigger as in height-wise. Its just that he has that massive chest- big haunches type build that sprinters have. The great turfers always have that long lean look. Its like the difference between a boxer dog and a greyhound body-wise.

[jonnielu]

Distance should not be the gating item in Curlin’s defeat on grass in the Man O’War if he should be defeated. It will be his adaptability to the turf surface which he should do because of his breeding and his affinity for the off track.

Additionally, Curlin has ran beyond 10f once in his lifetime and lost to the very good filly, Rags to Riches by a head. But in that race he would run the last quarter in 23.83 seconds which clearly shows that he doesn’t have a stamina problem.

However there are two big “ifs” in the Man O’War that might hamper Curlin and they are “if” Curlin don’t adapt to the turf surface with the same ability that he has shown on dirt and “if” the pace in the Man O’War is not legitimate Curlin might have a problem, but if the “ifs” are not the obstacles, I believe he will win authoritatively and might even threaten the track record.

Blah Blah Blah Blah, nobody said Curlin had a stamina problem, what was said was that his best talent is stepping out 10f extremely evenly. He might not be slow enough for the longer distances.

jdl

[ezrabrooks]

Its not that he is bigger as in height-wise. Its just that he has that massive chest- big haunches type build that sprinters have. The great turfers always have that long lean look. Its like the difference between a boxer dog and a greyhound body-wise.

I guess that was it, but when they broke in a line, it looked like a man vs boys..

[Cratos]

Curlin ran a helluva race for his first time on turf, but in the Man O’War, Red Rocks ran a better race. Also I don’t want to make an excuse for Curlin, but in this particular race I would give the edge to Red Rocks jockey.

The following race fractions tend to support that assertion:

Red Rocks: 24.04-25.33-24.30-23.42-23.90-11.61

Curlin: 24.45-25.66-24.05-23.42-23.57-11.77

What appeared to have happened is that when Albarado made his move with Curlin starting from the 6f mark so did Castellano, but with Curlin behind Red Rocks, any good move by Red Rocks (and it was a good move) put pressure on Curlin to better Red Rocks move which didn’t happen and the race was lost.

However Curlin’s performance in my opinion does not tarnish his future potential on grass and it would be good if his connections gave him another try, hopefully in Saratoga.

[The Hawk]

Daily Racing Form is announcing on their website that Curlin has been cleared to run at Belmont in this Saturday's Man O'War. I hope the folks at NYRA promote the hell out of this and maybe get an on track crowd of 20,000 +.
I, for one, will be there rooting on Big Man.

Attendance: 8,428. Announced, anyway.

[JustRalph]

What the hell were the two rabbits doing? I was floored when they went that fast? I lost Ten Bucks!!! :lol:

Durkin did everything but call them idiots............ :lol: :bang:

What the hell do those two riders say when they get back to the trainers? Amazing.............

[cj]

What the hell were the two rabbits doing? I was floored when they went that fast? I lost Ten Bucks!!! :lol:

Durkin did everything but call them idiots............ :lol: :bang:

What the hell do those two riders say when they get back to the trainers? Amazing.............

Maybe both had instructions to take the lead? The NoCal shipper held on pretty darn well.

[michiken]

Curlin belongs on dirt. Period.

[Burls]

Curlin belongs on dirt. Period.
Is Curlin's foray into grass like Michael Jordan's attempt at a baseball career?
Perhaps.
I agree with Cratos here.
I think it's worth trying Curlin on grass on more time.
But it has to be stateside.
The whole idea of shipping him to France has definitely got to be put on hold at this point.
I'm sure Stevie Wonder knows that in his heart of hearts.

[NYPlayer]

Blah Blah Blah Blah, nobody said Curlin had a stamina problem, what was said was that his best talent is stepping out 10f extremely evenly. He might not be slow enough for the longer distances.

jdl

He was slow enough today - just enough for some people to cash a bet on Red Rocks

[ghostyapper]

Got to say too that Better Talk Now does not look 9 years old. Old guy like Evening Attire has those big old knobbly knees, but this guy looks long and lean like a much younger horse.


Great point. I've been a huge fan of this horse for about 5 years now but today was the first time I saw him in person. I was amazed at how young and athletic he still looks. Great hop in his step warming up and the way he blew by curlin past the wire was not something I expect from a 9yo.

[ghostyapper]

Attendance: 8,428. Announced, anyway.

Amazing only 8,000 and they ran out of all race programs, even the drf, by the 6th race.

[OTM Al]

Amazing only 8,000 and they ran out of all race programs, even the drf, by the 6th race.


Considering that is 3 hours into the day's program, I don't see how this is such a terrible thing. Had they run out before the 1st, then I could see your point, but if you didn't have a program by the 6th, not sure you were really needing one.

[ghostyapper]

Considering that is 3 hours into the day's program, I don't see how this is such a terrible thing. Had they run out before the 1st, then I could see your point, but if you didn't have a program by the 6th, not sure you were really needing one.

When you have a marquee horse running alot of people show up later in the day to see the horse and they still purchase race programs. Race programs should be available even 10 minutes before the last race. But that is immaterial. Only 8000 people showed up. What would have happened if 12000 people showed up for the opening race?

[joanied]

Nice pickin' Joanied, you had a couple trifectas today....

Thanks, Sally:blush: Too bad I don't bet $$ :bang: and I don't really handicap...just go with my heart & gut :) and sometimes, it works!!!

[joanied]

I got 2 and 3 right.
Regarding 1, I didn't count on the two rabbits burning themselves out like that for the early pace lines, but no one was really buying that anyway.
Regarding 4, that is a problem for Curlin. If I was Stevie Wonder, I'd run Curlin in one more turf race before even making the definite committment to take him over to Europe.

Oh, and my two bucks is gone forever.
That's what you get for betting for your heart instead of your head.

Burls... I always 'bet' with my heart :eek: regardless of what my head tells me to do...ya can't win 'em all :)

I agree with your mention of Curlin's connections trying him once more here on grass before they decide on the Arc.

[joanied]

Well then Joanied can start pickin my horses, I ain't pickin none. "ridiculous" and "suicidal" Tom Durkin said of the pace.

Suicidal is right!!! Not that either of them could have finished in the money...maybe they were just out to get Curlin beat? But, IMHO, the pace didn't hurt Curlin, his slow start did it...he was too far back and watching him I'm not sure he was very comfortable on the turf...his class got him there, and if he'd run in a dirt race he'd have won again.
His connections will have to think hard on this one.
But having those 3 finish together was awesome... I figured Red Rocks was going to run a hell of a race, and that Better Talk Now might be just a step or two back from his prime from...but the old boy ran a good one and his people have to be very proud of him.

[joanied]

Not a bad turf debut especially against 2 BC turf winners but the troubling thing I saw for curlin was how Better Talk Now blew past him after the wire.

What an amazing animal BTN is, still racing at such a high level at 9.

I didn't see that...stupid ESPN NEWS channel...I'll have to watch the video today and watch past the wire. BTN is awesome and a credit to racing, I just love him.

[joanied]

..bottom line .... he lost :) should have stayed on dirt , more value .

No way!! His value as a stallion wasn't hurt one bit. He CAN run on turf, no disgrace finishing 2nd to a BC Turf winner, and if Curlin had broke better and stayed closer, and hadn't lost a lot of ground, the finish very well may have been different...even if he'd still lost, it would have been very close. No doubt, if the Man O War had been on dirt, he would have won again...I really don't think he traveled as well on the turf as dirt, but he did great regardless...the turf breeders will send mares to him left & right, and I'd bet his book is already full :)
As a stallion prospect, Curlin is the complete package:ThmbUp:

[joanied]

Attendance: 8,428. Announced, anyway.

Are you kidding? geeze...that is pathetic... seeing only 8,000+ in that huge grandstand makes me want to cry...especially with Curlin running...man, somethin' has go to be done to get more folks out on a Saturday afternoon.

[slewis]

I wanted to make a contribution to this post because I thought the Man O War was an interesting race. I also had/have an opinion, that MANY top quality dirt horses have failed (some miserably) when tried on turf. I think all things considered, Curlin's race yesterday was not quite miserable, but close.

It was NOT a strong group. Yes the winner had run some TOP quality races but has been tailing off in the last yr or so and ran a good race by US turf standards, but he is not a Group -1 quality top world turf runner.
Curlin carried equal weight (relatively) in the race, a big advantage for a horse who's been packing lot's of weight lately, especially in a distance race.

I've noticed some have mentioned the distance as a factor for Curlin. Let me remind all who don't know this: It is strongly agreed by experts in this sport that a horse's pedigree will carry them further on the Grass then on the dirt. The reference to Curlin not getting the distance on grass is a joke.
(For those that live near the ocean and beach, try running a quarter mile on the beach sand, then get your spikes on and run a quarter mile on the grass and let me know which is more tiring) So let's dismiss the "not able to get the distance" theory.
Next, visually Curlin looked good, not great, but good. I happened to be standing next to a prominent Vet who was talking to someone on the phone and I heard him saying how great he thought Curlin looked (I presume in reference to his being off a steroid program). Anyone who was there who thinks otherwise, I'd love to read your post.
Let's face it... it was a poor race by his standards. I applaude his connections for trying in a day and age where horses are managed like heavyweight boxing contenders, you know, pick your easy spots whenever possible.
If they make the mistake of running in France, he will surely get severly embarrassed.

[MickJ26]

Are you kidding? geeze...that is pathetic... seeing only 8,000+ in that huge grandstand makes me want to cry...especially with Curlin running...man, somethin' has go to be done to get more folks out on a Saturday afternoon.



Way to go, NYRA. I know it was short notice, but, there was barely a peep about Curlin in the local, baseball-driven media. How many people outside of interested horse racing fans even knew Curlin was running? Or even knows who Curlin is? Another great p.r. job, fellas.

[MickJ26]

I wanted to make a contribution to this post because I thought the Man O War was an interesting race. I also had/have an opinion, that MANY top quality dirt horses have failed (some miserably) when tried on turf. I think all things considered, Curlin's race yesterday was not quite miserable, but close.

It was NOT a strong group. Yes the winner had run some TOP quality races but has been tailing off in the last yr or so and ran a good race by US turf standards, but he is not a Group -1 quality top world turf runner.
Curlin carried equal weight (relatively) in the race, a big advantage for a horse who's been packing lot's of weight lately, especially in a distance race.

I've noticed some have mentioned the distance as a factor for Curlin. Let me remind all who don't know this: It is strongly agreed by experts in this sport that a horse's pedigree will carry them further on the Grass then on the dirt. The reference to Curlin not getting the distance on grass is a joke.
(For those that live near the ocean and beach, try running a quarter mile on the beach sand, then get your spikes on and run a quarter mile on the grass and let me know which is more tiring) So let's dismiss the "not able to get the distance" theory.
Next, visually Curlin looked good, not great, but good. I happened to be standing next to a prominent Vet who was talking to someone on the phone and I heard him saying how great he thought Curlin looked (I presume in reference to his being off a steroid program). Anyone who was there who thinks otherwise, I'd love to read your post.
Let's face it... it was a poor race by his standards. I applaude his connections for trying in a day and age where horses are managed like heavyweight boxing contenders, you know, pick your easy spots whenever possible.
If they make the mistake of running in France, he will surely get severly embarrassed.



Hypothetically speaking, had Curlin run in the UN the week before and beaten an ersatz field, would Jackson/Asmussen have been filled with false hope thinking Curlin was ready to take on the big turfers in Europe? Hopefully, Curlin gets another chance in the Sword Dancer or Arlington Million to end the debate.

[lilmegahertz]

Way to go, NYRA. I know it was short notice, but, there was barely a peep about Curlin in the local, baseball-driven media. How many people outside of interested horse racing fans even knew Curlin was running? Or even knows who Curlin is? Another great p.r. job, fellas.

Honestly if it was not for this site I would have missed the ESPN coverage. The horse of the year, that ran one of the unforgetable battles in the history making Belmont deserves more than this.

[Stevie Belmont]

Curlin did not disgrace himself be no means in the Man o' War. He moved well over the green and came up short to a pretty good horse. I did think he would come up even bigger and win the race. It looked liked he was gonna win it when he was rolling in the middle of the track, but was outlasted by Red Rocks. It was his first race ever on the lawn, giving up experience to horses that have run their entire career on the sod.

I still feel pretty good about the way he ran, some feel going back to dirt is the way to go, and it very well might. Let's face it, he is the king of dirt right now, but another try on the grass is certainly worth a shot.

They have left options open and will see soon where and when he might go next. I myself want to see him run on the grass at least one more time, either in Europe or the Arlington Million.

The Arlington Million looks like the race they could aim for. As for the Arc, it does look like a stretch at this point, but give the horse one more crack on the lawn. I still don't think they would want to run in the BC Classic on a surface he might not handle.

If they do run him again on grass, I think he would have to win the race for them to move on with him on the lawn.

The Japan Cup on dirt is another option they have.

The other big story is the fact that less the 10,000 showed up at Belmont Park for the race. It was still a great day for racing, and the ones that did show up were enthusiastic.

The other thing that was a disappointment was the fact they never walked the horse around the paddock? They kept him in the stall the entire time. The reason most of those people were huddled around the paddock was to see the big horse. Poor job there.

[ghostyapper]

The other thing that was a disappointment was the fact they never walked the horse around the paddock? They kept him in the stall the entire time. The reason most of those people were huddled around the paddock was to see the big horse. Poor job there.

That was very puzzling. He was one of the first horses out to the paddock but they kept him in the stall, not moving an inch for at least 15 minutes while all the other horses were walking. He did make 1 lap around the paddock before they went to the track but that wasn't enough.

[joanied]

Curlin did not disgrace himself be no means in the Man o' War. He moved well over the green and came up short to a pretty good horse. I did think he would come up even bigger and win the race. It looked liked he was gonna win it when he was rolling in the middle of the track, but was outlasted by Red Rocks. It was his first race ever on the lawn, giving up experience to horses that have run their entire career on the sod.

I still feel pretty good about the way he ran, some feel going back to dirt is the way to go, and it very well might. Let's face it, he is the king of dirt right now, but another try on the grass is certainly worth a shot.

They have left options open and will see soon where and when he might go next. I myself want to see him run on the grass at least one more time, either in Europe or the Arlington Million.

The Arlington Million looks like the race they could aim for. As for the Arc, it does look like a stretch at this point, but give the horse one more crack on the lawn. I still don't think they would want to run in the BC Classic on a surface he might not handle.

If they do run him again on grass, I think he would have to win the race for them to move on with him on the lawn.

The Japan Cup on dirt is another option they have.

The other big story is the fact that less the 10,000 showed up at Belmont Park for the race. It was still a great day for racing, and the ones that did show up were enthusiastic.

The other thing that was a disappointment was the fact they never walked the horse around the paddock? They kept him in the stall the entire time. The reason most of those people were huddled around the paddock was to see the big horse. Poor job there.

I read about 8,000 fans... did NYRA do any advertising? What is wrong with those guys...Belmont should have a near full house every Saturday...they need to take some cues from the CA guys...they seem to get it. They have give aways, music and other entertainment...they just seem to get the crowds there...and NY has dismal numbers unless it's a Triple Crown or other huge race...and now the fans that were there will go tell other folks that they didn't even get a chance to really see Curlin. Geeze, I swear.

If they do send Curlin to the Japan Cup...Curlin will see crowds like in the Kentucky Derby...those people turn out for racing!!

By the way...Stevie...isn't it a general rule of thumb that turf horses like the poly? If that's true, since Curlin ran so well in the Man O War, why wouldn't he take to poly also... I would for sure try him on it, at least in the morning. Ya never know!!