The Cyber-Terrorism Has Begun

[PaceAdvantage]

Well folks, I guess my days as a web host are numbered. Someone out there has it out for me and this site, and I'll be damned before I let something like this affect my life in a way that disrupts those that I love.

This site is a hobby, plain and simple. I love racing. I haven't made one dime of profit off of this site in the two years that it's been around. NOT ONE DAMN CENT.

I pay hundreds of dollars every year, plus all of my time, to keep this site running. Now someone wants to take that, and lord knows what else, away from me.

Someone is posting ads for "horse racing systems", "slot machine systems", "penny stock systems", "PORN PICTURES" on internet newsgroups with my e-mail address attached. Gee, I wonder who that someone could be? Could it be our recently departed friends from this board?

For Christ-sakes people, IT'S A HORSE RACING MESSAGE BOARD. WHAT THE F- is the big DEAL? Why go through all the trouble to ruin my hobby? WHAT THE HELL HAVE I DONE TO SOMEONE THAT WAS SO BAD THAT THEY GO THROUGH ALL THE TROUBLE TO TRY AND DESTROY THIS SITE??

What's next. You gonna hire a hitman to assassinate me? F-ING COWARDS. Sit behind your safe keyboards and do what you will. Let it be known that most streets are two ways and what goes around comes around.



==PA

[Larry Hamilton]

What can I do to help?

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, if you see any of these fake spam type ads for slot systems, stock systems, or horse systems with my e-mail address attached on any internet board or usenet group, please inform whomever that it is a fake.

Beyond that, unless you know who's responsible for this (and believe me, me and my host as well as others are working on that right now), there's not much you can do.


==PA


PS. Sorry for going off in that note and my choice of language, but I think you guys can understand how upset I am at the moment.

[smf]

PA,

This is bullsh^t. I'm (completely) against b.s. lawsuits, but this is one instance where I'd ram the shaft where it hurts to these morons. When you find them, f*ck 'em.

If there's any way to track down whoever (plural, likely) is/ are responsible for this, please do it.

If you don't have the time, perhaps some of the members here can assist in rounding the amateurs up.

[Boris]

Last post at alt.sport.horse-racing. I think someone you know mentioned he once posted there.

[smf]

Well, I see that by the time I posted, the balls' rolling. Get 'em.

PA,

Go the derby list. I'm not a subscriber but I lurk there most every day. Someone rec'd a "horseracing secret" system in his mailbox.

Not sure if that's related, may be worth a look.

[PaceAdvantage]

The thing I don't get is, what will be accomplished if this site goes away??? Am I selling anything that a competitor might want to put out of business?? NO

Am I making tons of money that someone else is jealous of?? NO

Is the closing of my site going to make someone else's site more attractive?? For most sites, that answer would be a big fat NO, although I'm sure someone might benefit.

So, what gives? In fact, if my site does go away because of what is currently happening, that will make other sites that much more vulnerable to similar types of attacks, so good luck to other folks with racing sites that people don't like!!


==PA

[baravot]

PA,

I completely agree with smf above. The cybercretins involved in this effort deserve the most severe consequences possible.

[hurrikane]

What a bunch of juvinile crap.

anything I can do let me know...have several friends in the computer business...some a little shady...and they love to screw the screwers.

Will keep my eyes open for you PA

I will make one comment....giving people crap on a board like this is like yelling at someone in traffic...you never know if they are going to pull out a gun and blow you away. I might suggest if you don't like someones opinion up here....leave it at that and keep the personal attacks to a minimum so we can talk about horses.

[Tim]

PA,

Anything I can do to help, just ask.

While I don't know, false advertising might be covered by some of the fraud statutes.

If the originating email in a fraud is sent from a computer in a different state than where your host computer is located then the people to talk to are:

Contact the FBI's National Computer Crime Squad through the Washington Metropolitan Field Office at nccs@fbi.gov, or call (202) 324-9164.

They can tell you what your options are. At the very least, that type of behavior violates a number of fraud statutes in the brick & mortar world. The problem is, what about cyberspace.

If you can actually identify who is doing this, a complaint to both the county and state District Attorney's offices in the state that the perp resides in might work wonders.

When you are confronted with some one who isn't rational, ruthless hardball might be the only option.

Tim

[GR1@HTR]

That sucks...Freaks everwhere...You figure it's got to be someone jobless w/ way tooo much time on their hands...Freaks!

[Larry Hamilton]

not necessarily jobless--how about living on grand mothers money and never had a real job or retired with too much time on their hands?

[Tom]

The downside to the internet is that idiots you would pound into the ground in the real world are safely hidding in their own little dememtned worlds. But
I have to believe there are laws being broken here and ways to fight back legally. I will do what I can to find out more about this type of thing from our local computer
TV show tonight, if I can get through.
PA- is there a way to register people that would force us to provide all pertinant information to you, such as address, phone, names, etc?
I have nothing to hide in either the cyber or real world
and I have no problem giving you my shoe size if it helps protect the board.
I would also not be the least bit hesitant to have to to pay some annual fee for the privilage of posting here to help defray your costs. Whatever I can do to help, count on me.

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks for the reply Tom....whatever info I collect upon registration is the bear minimum...that's all I need. Besides, if I asked for more, there's no way to really verify that that the info I receive is true.

As for a fee, that would never happen, but thanks for offering...Like I said, this is a hobby....



==PA

[melman]

The lengths that some will go to just to disturb and upset others never ceases to amaze. Not suprise however as this sort of thing will always go on. If you have some time tonight drop into the WAR ROOM. I have always believed that betting skill and the ability to express you view of a race in your bets outdo selection skills. Many times I will bet my 3rd pick in a race because of the way the odds set up. It can be upsetting when your 1st pick wins and you get NOTHING but in the long run (and that is what we are in this game for) you are far better off with less wins and more money. LOL Hope to talk with you soon and if you get tired of the baloney from running a web site please keep in touch. You know my e-mail addy. Best to ya Mike!!!!!!!

I don't post here often, but I visit a lot. It enrages me that some thumb-sucking morons with way too much time on their hands would try so hard to destroy a community that's focussed, rational and reasonable. There's not a whole bunch of sites around where that is the norm.

PA, don't let the bastards get you down. You do a hell of a job.

Any way I can be of help, just ask; I'm sure that sentiment reflects evryone who values this site enough to visit it as often as we do.

Mikekk

[Dr.Larry]

PA,

Just about a year ago, I got involved defending
Scoopcone in a hot controversy. You were
a gentleman and it was refreshing to communicate
with you. Your site is read and enjoyed by so
many of us.

The behavior of this person suggests
rather severe pathology. I do hope that
you can find the legal means to get at this
person.

We all all in your corner...Larry

[Dr.Larry]

By this "person" I was not referring to
Scoopcone.

[andicap]

Dr. Larry,
I used to enjoy your posts on the old HTR board where you talked about using the PRAT figures as Ragozins -- you adjusted them as you could for trips.
Are you still have success doing that? Are you deducting 1 pt for each path wide on the turn?

I try to use Beyers or other figs in that regard and have some success as form cycle indicators. When a horse just barely passes a previous top and has a month off, he's eligible to go forward, especially the 3 yr olds...

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Well folks, I guess my days as a web host are numbered. Someone out there has it out for me and this site, and I'll be damned before I let something like this affect my life in a way that disrupts those that I love.


I hope all those responsible for this shit DROP DEAD.


==PA

PA just remember these words to help you through all of this, "and this too shall pass" and "it's never so bad it can't get a whole lot worse". Good Luck -NDJ

[Dr.Larry]

Andicap,

Yes I do deduct 1 point for each path wide, up to
4 points for 5 wide. You will, however do much
better if you take the time to read the Chart Comments
instead of the PP comments.

>>When a horse just barely passes a previous
top and has a month off , he's eligible to go
forward, especially the 3 year olds<<

Andicap, your above statement is the key to the
mine. I'll give you something. Start playing 2
year olds starting very late August with the above,
and stay with it until Spring when they are 3
year olds. I did this last seaon, adding Ken
Massa's Impact ratings. Made more money
from Sept. through early December than for
any other period in my life. Now waiting for Late
August. Good Luck!!...Larry

[smf]

Larry Hamilton posted...

not necessarily jobless--how about living on grand mothers money and never had a real job or retired with too much time on their hands?

Larry,

Are you referring to an overweight illiterate that has long since been banned?

"..>>>><<<<>>><<<>>><<.."

[PaceAdvantage]

No, it's definitely somone with more Internet savvy.


==PA

[PaceAdvantage]

Time to forget about all this BS and get back to horses. We'll see what happens from here on out, but there is no use harping on crap that is out of my control.

Thanks to everyone for their words of support, it means a lot.


==PA

[Tom]

Nothing has been done here that cannot be done back.
Everyone seems to be skirting around and hinting at who is pulling this crap. Let's name names and let those of us that don't mind sinking to their level have a go at them. If you have to be an A*****E , then be the best A*****E you can be. Frankly, I would enjoy the challenge and I need to know just how low I can really go when pressed. Let's see just what the law will allow.
Tom

[Dave Schwartz]

PA,

Boy, take a few hours off and it I missed it!

PA, I am truly sorry. You do not deserve this. And we (as a group) don't deserve this.

Unfortunately, there is just no rationalizing this kind of "reputational vandaliism" and (from experience) I know how much it hurts.

I will be the first to stand up and say, "I am proud to call you friend and have great respect for you as a human being (as well as a force in the horse racing world)."

While I know this will not help, as my mother used to say, "It's like chicken soup... can't hoit."


With great respect,
Dave Schwartz

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, if anyone wants to see the crap that has been posted under my name, just go here:

groups.google.com

And do a search on PaceAdvantage (one word)


Hopefully, those notes won't be up much longer.

==PA

[Tom]

The same type of crap goes on at the Derby List, and I just got off the ESPN board and there is a joker over there with cyber-balls he lacks in the real world.
As much as I am against government controlling our lives, I think some rules need to set up for the internet and email. Like making spamming a crime punishable by fine and imprisonment, and making it a felony to sent any email or post any messages taht cannot be tracked back to the sender and replied to.
(One time, I was so mad at this place for sending my spam advertising, I sent them back 500 "FU" emails.
The next day, when I logged on, I had 500 messages wating for me- each one telling me my original message was undeliverable. Now get told to "FU" is bad enough, but 500 times, and from yourself......and I only had a phone connection at the time, so email was pretty slow, and that was when I went cable).
Point is, cretins are crawling the web and we need to find a way to stop them, kill them, or whatever it takes to shut them up. I will even support a liberal democrate on this issue!!!
Tom

[smf]

PA,

I agree, it couldn't be the idiot savant we all know. He couldn't string together 4 sentences w/o everyone here knowing who wrote the first grade level posts. That was my point for Larry.

Agreed, getting back to racing will be nice.

[tanda]

Not me Tom.

The test of your belief in freedom (especially freedom of expression) is your willingness to tolerate or defend offensive use of the freedom. After all, even totalitarian governments allow "redeeming" or "legitimate" speech. We do not need the First Amendment to protect scientific, educational, political, etc. speech. Those would be legal without the First Amendment. We need it to protect anti-semetic speech, pornography, discussions of gambling (yes, even horse racing), tobacco ads near schools (see recent U.S. Supreme Court decision), etc. All of these things are offensive to some people, yet all are supported by some people. I happen to think some are offensive (the first two) but I will defend the speakers right to participate in that type of speech. After all, somewhere there is somebody who finds some of the things you say offensive and would like to ban them (this site probably according to anti-gambling groups).

That being said, the expression discussed in this thread is cowardly and offensive. But as a First Amendment absolutist, I will defend anybody's right to say cowardly, offensive statements.

As for spam e-mail, what about junk mail, telephone solicitations or jerks saying stupid stuff to you in person. Once you freely choose to participate in a social setting (with e-mail, regular mail, telephone, facsimile, walking down a busy street) you accept that you will be exposed to other people and their expression. Since a high percentage of the world is composed of idiots, a high percentage of your exposure will be to idiotic speech.

tanda

[Tom]

Hey PA....
You got mentioned in Barry Meadows July issue-just got a call from my friend who is a subscriber.
Congratulations.

[Tom]

Originally posted by tanda
Not me Tom.

The test of your belief in freedom (especially freedom of expression) is your willingness to tolerate or defend offensive use of the freedom. After all, even totalitarian governments allow "redeeming" or "legitimate" speech. We do not need the First Amendment to protect scientific, educational, political, etc. speech. Those would be legal without the First Amendment. We need it to protect anti-semetic speech, pornography, discussions of gambling (yes, even horse racing), tobacco ads near schools (see recent U.S. Supreme Court decision), etc. All of these things are offensive to some people, yet all are supported by some people. I happen to think some are offensive (the first two) but I will defend the speakers right to participate in that type of speech. After all, somewhere there is somebody who finds some of the things you say offensive and would like to ban them (this site probably according to anti-gambling groups).

That being said, the expression discussed in this thread is cowardly and offensive. But as a First Amendment absolutist, I will defend anybody's right to say cowardly, offensive statements.

As for spam e-mail, what about junk mail, telephone solicitations or jerks saying stupid stuff to you in person. Once you freely choose to participate in a social setting (with e-mail, regular mail, telephone, facsimile, walking down a busy street) you accept that you will be exposed to other people and their expression. Since a high percentage of the world is composed of idiots, a high percentage of your exposure will be to idiotic speech.

tanda

Free speech is not free when I have to pay for it.
I think junk email should be outlawed-who pays the cost of all this crap? You and me through higher postage due to the clogged up syste,. and who pays to dispose of all the paper these guys waste? You and me, in taxes.
Telephone solicitors are by far the lowest of the low-theyare people so worthless in life they have to resort to begging and bothering me at my home that I pay for? Give me a break. To hell with them. I keepa olice whislte by my phone and I hope to god I have destroyed at least one idiot's hearing. If you are a telephne solisitor, you should take my advice and commit suicide-you have no value as a person!
And I didn't mean to prevent people from expressing themselves through email, but is it fair to me to have to listen to them and not be able to retaliate, er, respond?
No way, Jose. Throw shit on me and I want equal time.
And how about the newest rip-off-junk faxes at night? Who pays for the paper they waste? What about legitimate business they are interfering with?
I believe in freedom, but I believe in my rights more.
Just give me a level playing field-I will deal with those that offend me myself. right now, I can't do that.
What about the crap they are posting that is causiing PA problems? That is a right they should not have. There is a big difference between expressing views and throwing out lies. I can live with being offended, but let me offend back!
Tom

[tanda]

Tom,

I hate junk e-mail and junk mail as much as the next guy. I am positively irritated all solicitors, especially telephone.

But who decides what is junk and what is not junk?

The government?

A lot of the junk we get, my wife likes. Who is right?

If DRF sends you a postcard with a special offer is that junk? How about BRIS? What about an insurance company or credit card solicitation? The former are not junk to me, the last two are. Somebody else may think otherwise.

How do I know if you want me to call you? or write you? or e-mail you? Should it be a crime to ever contact anybody unsolicited? If not, who decides and who do I know whether the recipient considers my message junk?

I got a solicitation the other day for life insurance. Any other time in my life it is junk mail. Guess what? I just had a baby and got a house. I now want life insurance to take care of my wife, kid and mortgage. That solicitation, junk at any other time in my thirty years on this planet, was useful information. How would an insurance company have ever known when my feelings on the subject changed? ESP?

When you establish a mailing address, telephone number, etc. you are saying this is where you can reach me to the world. I just do not see a practical way for billions of people around the world to establish billions of separate standards for what constitutes junk and useful communication and does so in a manner that at any minute I can determine whether the recipient wants to receive my communication or not.

tanda

[Tom]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
BTW, if anyone wants to see the crap that has been posted under my name, just go here:

groups.google.com

And do a search on PaceAdvantage (one word)


Hopefully, those notes won't be up much longer.

==PA

I went there and read the crap-then I emailed google and gave them both barrels for participating in this without checking with you first. I urge everyone to do the same-literlally flood them with complaints, and always mention the words" illegal activity on your part"
and "contact legal authorities for advice".

They should have enough responsiblity to reveal who posted those things and if they don't then I say it is war with google.

But PA, I sent these things to a local computer "guru" (sorry for the term) and he thinks you could probably have some legal ground based on the fact that they actually made promises to deliver things that they obvioulsy cannot-this could fall under fraud.
Good Luck
Tom

[Tom]

You make some good points, but I still say that I have rights too, and and when I get an email that I cannot respond to, my rights have been violated. There is absolutely NO good reason for untraceable email, or phone calls that cannot be re-called using *66-none at all. This is an unfair advantage and this violates my right to privacy.
Why should the be allowed to hide their identity?

(Hey, how about this-two people disagreeing and no profanity or flames!) LOL
Tom

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually, Google is just a gateway to UseNet. The people you want to complain to is:

abuse@usenet.com



==PA

[tanda]

Tom,

The First Amendment (and the principles behind it) also apply to anonymous speech.

At one time, three pamphleteers wrote some anonymous pamphlets advocating a radical, unprecedented idea: the creation of the United States of America. Their real names were John Jay, James Madison and Alexander Hamilton, but they published under a shared anonymous fake name. The articles were the Federalist Papers.

Also, the speaker has privacy rights as well (to remain anonymous if he is able to communicate with you in that manner).

Finally, you have a right to privacy, But your telephone number and other communication are generally made public by you. When you distribute contact information to the public at large, you have to accept that the public will be able to access you. If you want privacy, give up the phone, address, e-mail, etc. But if you want to communicate with the public through those mediums, then the public will be able to communicate with you.

Also, more power to you with *66. You have the right to use whatever means you can to screen/trace communication to you ... and the sender has every right to screen/hide his communication to you. Your efforts to do those things are moral and should remain legal ... just as the converse methods are moral and should remain legal.

As a defender of freedom, I must defend jerks like Frank, aka Kat aka Guru, just as I defend morons like Larry Flynt and just as I must defend the telephone solicitor I hung up on earlier tonight (I am short and quick with them).

tanda

[Tom]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
I too, think freedom is more important than anything, but I also think anyone who is afraid to identify himself when he speaks out is a coward-and yes, that would apply to the "Federalists."
I have already gotten feedback for my complaints to google and I think that maybe something will be done-after all, promising something and not delivering is fraudulant and clearly not free expression. So maybe we take the back door on this one, after, that's how they got Al Capone.

Nice chatting with you, Tanda. I always enjoy a good discussion with someone that disagrees with me.
Make you think harder-good for an old brain.
Good Luck,
Tom

[JimG]

There is nothing I can say that hasn't been said earlier. This is really awful. Participating on this board is always one of the highlights of my day.

On another note, I obviously regret defending Frank as I did. He obviously fooled me. Guess I am not as savvy with this type of behavior as Larry and some of the others that detected a problem right out of the box.

Mike..if I can help please let me know. A few of us on this board have been conversing since the old Prodigy days and I see no reason to stop.

Jim

[PaceAdvantage]

Let me just say that I'm not sure yet who it is who is the cyber-terrorist(s). Let's not jump to conclusions here. I know it's hard to believe, but there is likely more than 1 lost soul out there who wouldn't mind seeing this place teeter.



==PA

[andicap]

Has anyone gone on Derby List to expose this just in case some of those people stumbled onto them?
I no longer subscribe.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JimG
There is nothing I can say that hasn't been said earlier. This is really awful. Participating on this board is always one of the highlights of my day.

On another note, I obviously regret defending Frank as I did. He obviously fooled me. Guess I am not as savvy with this type of behavior as Larry and some of the others that detected a problem right out of the box.

Mike..if I can help please let me know. A few of us on this board have been conversing since the old Prodigy days and I see no reason to stop.

Jim
I defended him, too, and I am glad I did-I would do the same for anyone. I would much rather assume someone is legit until he proves otherwise than be suspicious of everyone I meet. This is the dark world these morons live in. The funny part part about it is that they are probably laughing thinking they took us in when in reality, we reacted in a sane, normal way and then adjusted our positions when more facts were available.
Unlike one-mode cellar-dwellers, like ITM over on Yahoo-God, it must be an awful feeling to wake up in the morning and realize that you are him! I would be looking for sleeping pills to avoid the day. That is one sick puppy, and, oh yes, a coward.
Tom

[Lefty]

This stuff saddens me as it does us all. People "out to get other people" and hide behind annonymity is true
cowardice.
Tanda, Tom, don't think this is a free speech issue. We
have the right to say what we want but we don't have
the right to say things and then attach someone elses
name to it. This is fraud and defamation and libel.

[baravot]

Lefty,

You hit the nail on the head.

[Tom]

Lefty,
Amen to that.
I will say what I want to, but I will also take full credit (or responsibiltiy) for it.
Tom

[Rick Ransom]

I can't see how this is a freedom of speech issue. It is more a case of harassment. I don't think it would be legal for somebody to follow you around with a megaphone yelling at you day and night, which is what this barrage of messages and e-mails was like. And I don't think it would be legal for someone to advertise for a ficticious business using your address, which is what seemed to have happened on the other discussion boards.

[John]

PA ,You should see my e-mail sometime. Talk about nuts. You know some people have no life and are bent on upsetting anybody's life . these sick minded people have a mindset to do bad things and then hid behind Mommy's skirt. They want to play catch ball with you .So the trick is don't throw the ball back. In this case turn the other cheek and be gratefully that most of us can not think that way. All this sick minded person has to do is just say to him/her self is what a wonderful area I live in on internet .all these nice people who I never met and will probable never meet are willing to take time out of there life to talk to me ,answer my e-mail. I am so Happy to be part of this I pray that it never goes away. But, that mind tells him to curse and not pray. Forget about whoever it is. He/She is not worth thinking about