Don't Look Now,,but we may be winning? Take Two!

[JustRalph]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article4276486.ece

From The Sunday TimesJuly 6, 2008

Iraqis lead final purge of Al-Qaeda

American and Iraqi forces are driving Al-Qaeda in Iraq out of its last redoubt in the north of the country in the culmination of one of the most spectacular victories of the war on terror.

After being forced from its strongholds in the west and centre of Iraq in the past two years, Al-Qaeda’s dwindling band of fighters has made a defiant “last stand” in the northern city of Mosul.

A huge operation to crush the 1,200 fighters who remained from a terrorist force once estimated at more than 12,000 began on May 10.

Operation Lion’s Roar, in which the Iraqi army combined forces with the Americans’ 3rd Armoured Cavalry Regiment, has already resulted in the death of Abu Khalaf, the Al-Qaeda leader, and the capture of more than 1,000 suspects.

The group has been reduced to hit-and-run attacks, including one that killed two off-duty policemen yesterday, and sporadic bombings aimed at killing large numbers of officials and civilians.

Last Friday I joined the 2nd Iraqi Division as it supported local police in a house-to-house search for one such bomb after intelligence pointed to a large explosion today.

Even in the district of Zanjali, previously a hotbed of the insurgency, it was possible to accompany an Iraqi colonel on foot through streets of breeze-block houses studded with bullet holes. Hundreds of houses were searched without resistance but no bomb was found, only 60kg of explosives.

American and Iraqi leaders believe that while it would be premature to write off Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the Sunni group has lost control of its last urban base in Mosul and its remnants have been largely driven into the countryside to the south.

Nouri al-Maliki, Iraq’s prime minister, who has also led a crackdown on the Shi’ite Mahdi Army in Basra and Baghdad in recent months, claimed yesterday that his government had “defeated” terrorism.

“They were intending to besiege Baghdad and control it,” Maliki said. “But thanks to the will of the tribes, security forces, army and all Iraqis, we defeated them.”

The number of foreign fighters coming over the border from Syria to bolster Al-Qaeda’s numbers is thought to have declined to as few as 20 a month, compared with 120 a month at its peak.

Brigadier General Abdullah Abdul, a senior Iraqi commander, said: “We’ve limited their movements with check-points. They are doing small attacks and trying big ones, but they’re mostly not succeeding.”

Major-General Mark Hertling, American commander in the north, said: “I think we’re at the irreversible point.”

~more at the link~

Try this one too: it was ignored by many, including the Dems in Congress who called the war a sham because the "political goals had not been met"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-07-01-report_N.htm

[46zilzal]

ANY country on earth will fight to the last person, to rid themselves of an uninvited occupying army on every street corner.

Reverse the situation: Iraqi solders invade the U.S. in an undeclared war on totally bogus information. They screw up royally, compounding blunder upon blunder then stay years afterwards. U.S. citizens would not fight them to the death until they left???

I going to use your favorite, OVER-used description. It is duplicitous to think there would be any difference if the tables were turned.

[JustRalph]

ANY country on earth will fight to the last person, to rid themselves of an uninvited occupying army on every street corner.

Reverse the situation: Iraqi solders invade the U.S. in an undeclared war on totally bogus information. They screw up royally, compounding blunder upon blunder then stay years afterwards. U.S. citizens would not fight them to the death until they left???

I going to use your favorite, OVER-used description. It is duplicitous to think there would be any difference if the tables were turned.

In some ways your idiotic analogy fits. Iraqi's are fighting to rid their country of the Al Qaeda types and other insurgents. Or did you not read the article?

This is from a first hand account from someone who is traveling with the Iraqi Army. It doesn't suit your world view so you dismiss it out of hand. As usual, you are wrong..................

[46zilzal]

The clone force from this group wouldn't even have been there except for the rutabaga's GROSS incompetence. All the while the original article is getting stronger along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Iraqi's are fighting to get rid of foreigners.....period!

[PaceAdvantage]

The clone force from this group wouldn't even have been there except for the rutabaga's GROSS incompetence.Or, perhaps they were there all along, and the "rutabaga" as you call him, SMOKED 'EM OUT....:lol:

[Tom]

Dingy Harry, Nancy Bin Losi, and the drive by media will do all they can do to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

[acorn54]

all i have to say about the war in iraq is if we had the draft the war would never have happened
middle class parents would not send their kids off to war based on the reasons we are there.

[46zilzal]

.......and the poor people out there getting killed are being treated miserably by the same clowns who are using them, risking their lives for NOTHING.

EXACTLY the same logic that the idiots used in Vietnam: never admit it was a mistake, just keep on going.

The idea is not a new one either as Pete Seeger noted.

It was back in nineteen forty-two,
I was a member of a good platoon.
We were on maneuvers in-a Loozianna,
One night by the light of the moon.
The captain told us to ford a river,
That's how it all begun.
We were -- knee deep in the Big Muddy,
But the big fool said to push on.

The Sergeant said, "Sir, are you sure,
This is the best way back to the base?"
"Sergeant, go on! I forded this river
'Bout a mile above this place.
It'll be a little soggy but just keep slogging.
We'll soon be on dry ground."
We were -- waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool said to push on.

The Sergeant said, "Sir, with all this equipment
No man will be able to swim."
"Sergeant, don't be a Nervous Nellie,"
The Captain said to him.
"All we need is a little determination;
Men, follow me, I'll lead on."
We were -- neck deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool said to push on.

All at once, the moon clouded over,
We heard a gurgling cry.
A few seconds later, the captain's helmet
Was all that floated by.
The Sergeant said, "Turn around men!
I'm in charge from now on."
And we just made it out of the Big Muddy
With the captain dead and gone.

We stripped and dived and found his body
Stuck in the old quicksand.
I guess he didn't know that the water was deeper
Than the place he'd once before been.
Another stream had joined the Big Muddy
'Bout a half mile from where we'd gone.
We were lucky to escape from the Big Muddy
When the big fool said to push on.

Well, I'm not going to point any moral;
I'll leave that for yourself
Maybe you're still walking, you're still talking
You'd like to keep your health.
But every time I read the papers
That old feeling comes on;
We're -- waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on.

Waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep in the Big Muddy
And the big fool says to push on.
Waist deep! Neck deep! Soon even a
Tall man'll be over his head, we're
Waist deep in the Big Muddy!
And the big fool says to push on!

Words and music by Pete Seeger (1967)
TRO (c) 1967 Melody Trails, Inc. New York, NY

[Tom]

all i have to say about the war in iraq is if we had the draft the war would never have happened
middle class parents would not send their kids off to war based on the reasons we are there.

But everyone making up thier own minds have supported it, and many by re-upping. No one there now was caught by suprise. That is a testement to those willing to serve. Think what you area saying - the ones who are going there are willing but their parents are not. What about the parents of those signing up now?


And Waist Deep in the Big Muddy?
That would hold more water if we and the Iraqi's were not winning.
Ding Harry must cry himself to slep everynight. American victory is bad for dems.

[NJ Stinks]

The Sunday Times is owned by Rupert Murdoch. He has no credibility with me. None. That article may as well come from the NY Post.

Neither does the guy we appointed to run Iraq (Maliki).

The source of the information in the USA Today article is the White House.

Nothing like independent sources to back up a claim. :rolleyes:

[JustRalph]

all i have to say about the war in iraq is if we had the draft the war would never have happened
middle class parents would not send their kids off to war based on the reasons we are there.

We have been down this road before. If you look it up, you will find that the income levels of those in serving in Iraq are right down the middle when it comes to "middle class" or not. Many are much higher than middle class.

[JustRalph]

The Sunday Times is owned by Rupert Murdoch. He has no credibility with me. None. That article may as well come from the NY Post.

Neither does the guy we appointed to run Iraq (Maliki).

The source of the information in the USA Today article is the White House.

Nothing like independent sources to back up a claim. :rolleyes:

Yep, Rupert Sent a Woman (I think the author is a woman) into Baghdad and on to Mosul etc to be a propaganda aid? There are other outlets reporting the same information.........but they are mostly foreign............the United States Media should be ashamed.

[JustRalph]

what the hell does a Pete Seeger song have to do with the thread?

Once again you come storming into a thread and jump up and down and scream until you get noticed ............you are so ate up it hurts..........

[46zilzal]

what the hell does a Pete Seeger song have to do with the thread?

..
A lot: a fool leads a group of soldiers on a poorly planned maneuver just like Vietnam and this debacle in Iraq: parallel stupidity.

[DJofSD]

The clone force from this group wouldn't even have been there except for the rutabaga's GROSS incompetence. All the while the original article is getting stronger along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Iraqi's are fighting to get rid of foreigners.....period!
I watched a presentation this weekend on BookTV by David Horowitz. Here's the link to BookTV (http://www.booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=9386&SectionName=Politics&PlayMedia=Yes) to watch it. Gross incompetence seemingly deserves to be laid at the feet of some other presidents, not Bush. But you knew that already.

[pktruckdriver]

Is it really possible that finally we are making progress in this war, one I still feel we should not be in, but we are, so I'm dealing with that, I have no choice, right?


I mean we did get Sadam and Killed him too, thru a court of law, in Iraq, but still the war went on and on, and no one could tell us when we could tell that we won, can anyone tell me that?

What would happen if we left by the end of the year, can you honestly say? I can not, who could, and if he could, would he say and could he be trusted? Not by me, I can not trust him, as much as I would want to, I do not trust our government, do you?

Supporting our trops and listening to returning ones, I feel that maybe we could actually win this war in Iraq, the soldiers think so, and I do not think it is what they are programmed to believe, no not that, give them more credit than that, please, not all soldiers are brainwashed, some yes, but not all, agreed!!

They state progress is being made and the Iraq people are thankful for the intervention, as hard as its been, it is getting better and the soldiers say quicker than was expected, this from soldiers who were and are there, not the press, believeable, to me ,yes it is .

So I want to think this article is true and will pray for our soldiers to be home by 2009, enough said.

Patrick

[acorn54]

my neighbor's son signed up
when i ask him why he told me he has had no luck getting his life started in the jobs he has had
so i'd say this is not uncommon with alot of them, lack of economic opportunity in the current economic climate

[46zilzal]

I watched a presentation this weekend on BookTV by David Horowitz. Here's the link to BookTV (http://www.booktv.org/program.aspx?ProgramId=9386&SectionName=Politics&PlayMedia=Yes) to watch it. Gross incompetence seemingly deserves to be laid at the feet of some other presidents, not Bush. But you knew that already.
Yes I hear this all the time: Don't tell me that the idiots who invaded Iraq are to blame!! what crap...Hdcap is right: Blame Clinton because he was handy.

[46zilzal]

And then the "experts" wonder how the economy got so screwed up. Amazing

[DJofSD]

Watch the video. It's an hour and one half.

Don't debate me about points that may or may not be relevant.

The issue at hand is the war in Iraq, how we got there and if there is an issue of compentancy about the decissions of US federal government employees that led up to the war. Horowitz makes a very clear case backed up by historical facts. You can try to spin the peripheral issues all you want. Stay on point.

[46zilzal]

I hear this "blame it on Clinton" shit all the time. The rutabaga invaded NO ONE ELSE DID.

Then Daddy invaded the first time....

[DJofSD]

I hear this "blame it on Clinton" shit all the time. The rutabaga invaded NO ONE ELSE DID.

Then Daddy invaded the first time....
I'll take that to mean you'd rather argue your opinion than debate the merits of the issue. In other words, you continue to have a closed mind.

[46zilzal]

I'll take that to mean you'd rather argue your opinion than debate the merits of the issue. In other words, you continue to have a closed mind.
Merits? I just see a blanket contempt for a former president encapsulated in all manor of erroneous malarkey. Not a shred of evidence.

[JustRalph]

you still clinging to that "Just like Vietnam" bullshit?

55k dead soldiers in Vnam.

Less than 5k in Iraq. in 5 years.

I would say that makes a huge difference. But not to you. I am sure.

You can't fathom that the U.S. is actually winning this thing. You can't fathom that our military has overcome the terrible early planning, the media discourse that practically crippled them in the first three years of the war. They have overcome all of the obstacles of the terrorist sympathizers, including those in Congress. They have overcome U.S. Congressmen standing in the hot lights of the press rooms all over America calling them Murder Suspects. They have overcome John Kerry and John Murtha. They have overcome Moveon.org calling their leader a liar. They have overcome much, yet their is more to do. In 7 months they may have to overcome an empty suit in the Whitehouse who will do everything he can to pull the proverbial rug out from under them.

[46zilzal]

I laughed so hard at the revisionist BALONEY about Saddam's ability to "strike the American homeland" that I turned it off. WHAT CRAP....Reminds me of the stupid domino theory and the "retro fitting" of spurious facts in that other stupid conflict.

[DJofSD]

I laughed so hard at the revisionist BALONEY about Saddam's ability to "strike the American homeland" that I turned it off. WHAT CRAP....Reminds me of the stupid domino theory and the "retro fitting" of spurious facts in that other stupid conflict.
So, you watched up to the point of the first point you disagreed with and stopped.

Further evidence you have a closed mind.

[46zilzal]

So, you watched up to the point of the first point you disagreed with and stopped.

Further evidence you have a closed mind.
No I got several other chuckles further into it. I listen to bull shit, but happen to recognize it for what it is.

[46zilzal]

By now all but the most ardent of Bush administration admirers must face the obvious: the mission in Iraq was never accomplished, only botched. Historians and pundits will devote tomes upon tomes in assessing one of the most egregious blunders in American foreign policy. But it is not that difficult to see how it happened. Take a horrific tragedy (9/11), a convenient scapegoat (Muslim extremists), a personal grudge (Saddam surviving the first Gulf War and bragging about it), ideological nitwits (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, and the list goes on), a bottom line (oil supply), a fear factor (WMDs) and outright lies. Much of the evidence for the Iraq Debacle survives on videotape. Now Christopher Cerf and Victor S. Navasky have documented what the “experts” bungled in their recent Mission Accomplished or How We Won the War in Iraq: The Experts Speak (New York: Simon & Schuster, 2008).
http://instituteofexpertology.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/neoconceit-and-the-iraq-debacle/

Oh, no, we’re not going to have any casualties.” George W. Bush in a response attributed to him by Rev. Pat Robertson, when Robertson warned the President to prepare the nation for “heavy casualties” in the event of an Iraq War, March, 2003.

“I am reasonably certain that they will greet us as liberators, and that they will help us keep [troop] requirements down… We can say with reasonable confidence the the notion of hundreds of thousands of American troops is way off the mark … wildly off the mark.” [Wolfie, we can see with total confidence, because it happened already, that the only thing wildly off the mark was your estimate.]

[Light]

Winning in Iraq? Is that like we're winning in Afghanistan and beating the Taliban where American deaths have quitely outnumbered American deaths in Iraq the last 2 months? You dont know the nature of your enemy. Only 5k Americans killed in Iraq and you trivialize it in comparison with Vietnam? You're not fighting a traditional war. You're fighting a war you're bound to lose,is burdening our economy,is causing fears in the oil market,is free advertising for terrorist recruits,divides Iraq and the U.S and continues to cause deaths that you call "progress" cause its down from a 100 a day. The "progress",you see is only a break in the action as the opposition regroups.This has been a repetetive pattern,so dont get your hopes up. Even Maliki cant stand your occupation and wants you out.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Iraq raises idea of timetable for US withdrawal

It was the first time that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has explicitly and publicly called for a withdrawal timetable — an idea opposed by President Bush.

[boxcar]

ANY country on earth will fight to the last person, to rid themselves of an uninvited occupying army on every street corner.

When did Al-Queda become a country?

Boxcar

[robert99]

The Iraq war can only be considered "won" when it has met all its objectives.
Fighting so called Al Queda foreigners in Iraq is not one of the objectives.

President Bush said "the United States will achieve its objective of ensuring that Iraq is a free country, able to govern, defend and sustain itself, but only if it rejects calls to establish artificial timetables for withdrawal of U.S. troops".

USA Military expects to be there for another decade and any lasting peace before another faction wants to fight its way to be top dog has hardly started.

[boxcar]

No I got several other chuckles further into it. I listen to bull shit, but happen to recognize it for what it is.

So..."turned it off", but you still listened...? :rolleyes: You're one sick, hopelessly confused puppy.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

The Iraq war can only be considered "won" when it has met all its objectives.
Fighting so called Al Queda foreigners in Iraq is not one of the objectives.

President Bush said "the United States will achieve its objective of ensuring that Iraq is a free country, able to govern, defend and sustain itself, but only if it rejects calls to establish artificial timetables for withdrawal of U.S. troops".

USA Military expects to be there for another decade and any lasting peace before another faction wants to fight its way to be top dog has hardly started.

I want them there. For many years to come. I am all for it.

[46zilzal]

I want them there. For many years to come. I am all for it.
Ah the DUPLICITY!!

Let Iraqi troops camp in Ohio for the next decade and BOY would it be different. Invade and occupy is good for the goose but not for the gander......Talk about double standards.

[wonatthewire1]

I want them there. For many years to come. I am all for it.


Me too!

Keep them there - so we can bust the deficit wide open like a swollen Mississippi so all the world can watch the mushroom cloud of debt!

:faint:

[boxcar]

Ah the DUPLICITY!!

Let Iraqi troops camp in Ohio for the next decade and BOY would it be different. Invade and occupy is good for the goose but not for the gander......Talk about double standards.

I swore that USA article to which JR provided the link for this thread was talking about Al-Queda being on its last legs? Yet, you're talking about Iraqi troops!?
In your Wally World Universe, Al-Queda = Iraqi troops?

Boxcar

[wonatthewire1]

you still clinging to that "Just like Vietnam" bullshit?

55k dead soldiers in Vnam.

Less than 5k in Iraq. in 5 years.

I would say that makes a huge difference. But not to you. I am sure.

You can't fathom that the U.S. is actually winning this thing. You can't fathom that our military has overcome the terrible early planning, the media discourse that practically crippled them in the first three years of the war. They have overcome all of the obstacles of the terrorist sympathizers, including those in Congress. They have overcome U.S. Congressmen standing in the hot lights of the press rooms all over America calling them Murder Suspects. They have overcome John Kerry and John Murtha. They have overcome Moveon.org calling their leader a liar. They have overcome much, yet their is more to do. In 7 months they may have to overcome an empty suit in the Whitehouse who will do everything he can to pull the proverbial rug out from under them.

You're right - Rummy was and remains a genius - well before his time

:jump:

[PaceAdvantage]

I keep asking myself why people continue to refer to this Iraq thing as a war?

[Light]

(spit)I may be a dumb s.o.b.,but if that there feller in that Whitehouse says its true, then by golly,it must be the truth.Yeah, Go Bush. Kill em all... where's my Bible.. Whoweeeee!! Take that you commie liberals. Now you get,you hear,get! Time for a beer..That Obama feller scares me(spit)....kinda dark(spit) :p

Delusional

Al Queda is not the majority military force in Iraq,kiddies. It is in the minority.95% of the resistance are Iraqi's,evidenced by the nationalities of the dead combatants.

But Bush keeps telling us we are fighting Al-Queda,not Iraqi's with a Texas accent/smirked face /eye slant/mouth bent/ included. As long as your as dumb as the spitty guy above and Tex, we look good.

[wonatthewire1]

I keep asking myself why people continue to refer to this Iraq thing as a war?


The WH and our media call it the "War on Terror"?

Guess that qualifies as being a war or a part of a war. But then again, was the war ever declared? Then I guess then it wouldn't be a war.

Anything that comes out of Washingtoon is so confusing!

;)

[boxcar]

The WH and our media call it the "War on Terror"?

Guess that qualifies as being a war or a part of a war. But then again, was the war ever declared? Then I guess then it wouldn't be a war.

Anything that comes out of Washingtoon is so confusing!

;)

And it matters not from which party that "anything" comes out of either!

Boxcar

[wonatthewire1]

And it matters not from which party that "anything" comes out of either!

Boxcar

So true...

They should make it into one of those game shows or fake reality shows...

I was thinking just the other day - with all these fake reality shows - what actually is real?

[JustRalph]

The bottom line is; Our Military is turning over the country to the Iraqi's slowly but surely. 15 of 18 political goals have been met. The monthly casualty count is going down and the streets are being run more and more by Iraqi's.........and their government. It is beginning to sound like success.........and a victory................ and the left can't stand it!!!

I am proud of our military and General Petreus and the men and women who have stuck it out. It could go south tomorrow, but ignoring a victory of such magnitude for political reasons is treachery of the highest order!!

The Dems/Left and the Mainstream media in this country should be held accountable.............

[chickenhead]

I've never understood why the people who want us to bring the troops home seem so invested that we're losing, and the people who want to stay, are so invested that we're winning.

Doesn't win = come home?


I say lets leave on a good note. If things are good right now, lets boogie before they inevitably go to shit again.

[JustRalph]

I've never understood why the people who want us to bring the troops home seem so invested that we're losing, and the people who want to stay, are so invested that we're winning.

Doesn't win = come home?


I say lets leave on a good note. If things are good right now, lets boogie before they inevitably go to shit again.

They don't have to go to shit again. We need a foot hold in the area for the foreseeable future. It protects our interests and allows us to "be there" as opposed to being on the outside looking in. I want us to be there for reasons that allow us to influence the region from within. We do it in Korea, Germany (although we are pulling out of Germany) and other countries, and we need to do it in Iraq for the foreseeable future. We need air assets and immediately deploy-able troops that can reach areas quickly and with swift reaction times comes swifter abilities to negotiate with those who we need to either intimidate or "convince" that we are good for the region. Taking two months to "gear up" doesn't make for an intimidating force. Overnight boots on the ground and almost immediate air power is very handy in a negotiation.

[Light]

Good point CH

If we are winning, the prez should be talking about reducing troop levels and easing the burden on soldiers who have done double,triple and extended duties.Instead they prefer to hype up the "winning" part and keep reality in check.

[JustRalph]

I hear this "blame it on Clinton" shit all the time. The rutabaga invaded NO ONE ELSE DID.

Then Daddy invaded the first time....

You don't think Bill Clinton has anything to be blamed for? Try this one. This is an interview from yesterday..........with

Dr. Michael Scheuer
Biography
Michael Scheuer served in the CIA for 22 years before resigning in 2004. He served as the Chief of the bin Laden Unit at the Counterterrorist Center from 1996 to 1999. He is the once anonymous author of Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror and the newly released Marching Toward Hell: America and Islam After Iraq. Dr. Scheuer is a Senior Fellow with The Jamestown Foundation.

right click and download this snippet of the interview or click and wait for it to play. It is about 6megs
http://www.justralph.com//bin_ladin.mp3

[chickenhead]

They don't have to go to shit again.

I'm not convinced of that. The whole region wallows in it, they really seem to like it.

[Light]

Damn CH. You're 2 for 2!

Ugly result of Gaza wars - sewage in Mediterranean

07-07) 04:00 PDT Shati Refugee Camp, Gaza Strip -- When a toilet is flushed in Gaza City, the waste sloshes straight into the Mediterranean Sea.

A yearlong standoff between Israel and Hamas has left the territory's sewage system in a state of collapse, flooding its coastal waters with human waste and blanketing crowded beachside neighborhoods in a fierce stench.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/07/MN3K11KQLM.DTL&hw=gaza&sn=001&sc=1000

[46zilzal]

Wolfie you are full of it.


Iraq insists on withdrawal timetable for US troops

By Sally Buzbee / Associated Press

BAGHDAD - Iraq's national security adviser said Tuesday his country will not accept any security deal with the United States unless it contains specific dates for the withdrawal of U.S.-led forces.

The comments by Mouwaffak al-Rubaie were the strongest yet by an Iraqi official about the deal now under negotiation with U.S. officials. They came a day after Iraq's prime minister first said publicly that he expects the pending troop deal with the United States to have some type of timetable for withdrawal.

President Bush has said he opposes a timetable. The White House said Monday it did not believe Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki was proposing a rigid timeline for U.S. troop withdrawals.

[Tom]

See, they are playing it up for Obama, a quitter. They know no dem will have the balls to actually stand up to anyone. Everyone knows "negotiate" is code for surrender.

A vote for Obama is a vote for Osama.

[NJ Stinks]

See, they are playing it up for Obama, a quitter. They know no dem will have the balls to actually stand up to anyone. Everyone knows "negotiate" is code for surrender.

A vote for Obama is a vote for Osama.

Keep voting Republican, Tom. That seems to be working out real well for us. Supposedly the Republicans strong points are security, spending, and the economy. If I concede security since we only had one terrorist attack since George took over, Republicans are one for three.

And it was a broken bat single.

[Tom]

Did you live through Carter?
If you read my old posts, I clearly stated I was not voting for Bush, but against Gore/Kerry. I have lambasted the repubs more than once here for failing to do thier jobs, andI dont support any republicans anymore.
But as I keep telling hcap, abandoning the righties by no means I will evre support the lfities. Carter/Clinton - a real pair of jerks. Bush was bad, that's a fact, but at least he wasn't a dem. As bad as he has been at times, I have no regrets keeping the twin dipsticks out of office.

It is time to stop supporting parties and support ideals, and anyone who will advance them, no matter what party.

But Obama is just plain dangerous.....they can already smell blood in the water. Mark my words, elect Obama and 9-11 will be dwarfed. He and his kind would take down all the effective defenses that have kept us terror free for 8 years. You need balls to be CNC...not empty talk.

[Marshall Bennett]

... and I'd die by these words , Bush wasn't perfect but he kept the homefront safe . Helps your families sleep better at night . McCain could do the same , remains to be seen . Obama ? I'd be afraid to lay down at night !!

[hcap]

Did you live through Carter?
If you read my old posts, I clearly stated I was not voting for Bush, but against Gore/Kerry. I have lambasted the repubs more than once here for failing to do thier jobs, andI dont support any republicans anymore.
But as I keep telling hcap, abandoning the righties by no means I will evre support the lfities. Carter/Clinton - a real pair of jerks. Bush was bad, that's a fact, but at least he wasn't a dem. As bad as he has been at times, I have no regrets keeping the twin dipsticks out of office.

It is time to stop supporting parties and support ideals, and anyone who will advance them, no matter what party.

But Obama is just plain dangerous.....they can already smell blood in the water. Mark my words, elect Obama and 9-11 will be dwarfed. He and his kind would take down all the effective defenses that have kept us terror free for 8 years. You need balls to be CNC...not empty talk.Tom, you are to the far, far right of the republican party. You are also to the right of most neocons-at least most neos don't call for indiscriminate nuking and killing and maiming of civilians. So of course you won't support democrats. What a surprise!!. BTW, what will you and others here like Ralph and PA and Boxhead do when Obama wins? Your argument that the dems will destroy themselves for a thousand years and in the process re-create the "permanent republican majority" is a lousy bet. As Suff said in another thread, youse guys will pass into the annals (anals? :jump: ) of all time piss-poor politics and philosophy.

Just the humble opinion of a DIM/COMMIE/PINKO/TERRORIST SYMPATHIZER/EX-OFF TOPIC DOMINATOR .

[hcap]

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/31178

Opposition to Iraq War Hits 68% in U.S.

Two-thirds of American adults are disappointed with the coalition effort, according to a poll by Opinion Research Corporation released by CNN. 68 per cent of respondents oppose the United States war in Iraq.


I am surprised that they even used the worn out term "coalition"
So you gentlemen on the far right here have completely dominated this board recently, but the above indicates just how out of step you really are.

Go Bush! And I mean that literally :cool:

[Light]

Tom

I dont think you have to worry about Obama turning into a Chamberlain. Obama has allready flip flopped on alot of issues,going from left to a more central position. The reason he has moved away from the left is because A) He wants votes and B) Powerful lobbyists like AIPAC.Allthough he seems like he's appeasing alot of groups,I think they do have their doubts about whether he actually believes some of his revised positions. But even if he reverts back to his leftist policies should he be elected,I dont think he will be able to implement alot of what he says. Both Clintons wanted health care reform in 1992 and could not do anything due to the power of the corporate health industry which puts profit before people. Ralph Nader is right. Corporations run America.

[Marshall Bennett]

Tom, you are to the far, far right of the republican party. You are also to the right of most neocons-at least most neos don't call for indiscriminate nuking and killing and maiming of civilians. So of course you won't support democrats. What a surprise!!. BTW, what will you and others here like Ralph and PA and Boxhead do when Obama wins? Your argument that the dems will destroy themselves for a thousand years and in the process re-create the "permanent republican majority" is a lousy bet. As Suff said in another thread, youse guys will pass into the annals (anals? :jump: ) of all time piss-poor politics and philosophy.

Just the humble opinion of a DIM/COMMIE/PINKO/TERRORIST SYMPATHIZER/EX-OFF TOPIC DOMINATOR .
Once Obama wins then you can walk the walk . Your man shoots himself in the foot every time he opens his mouth . You would vote dem if the devil himself was your only choice . Show me .. tell me the " change " this moron of an idiot stands for . So far I've heard nothing , absolutely nothing . He's black and he's a democrat , guess thats enough in your world . The most worthless candidate I've ever seen for a president . Simply tell me something good here , trust me I'll listen . I've voted democrat before . There's absolutely nothing . Bless us all if he's elected !!

[hcap]

I have lambasted the repubs more than once here for failing to do thier jobs, andI dont support any republicans anymore.

Here's a smart Republican with some good ideas...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92330339

Panel Offers New Policy For Going To War

All Things Considered, July 8, 2008 ·

"The president should be required to consult with Congress before taking the nation to war, according to a bipartisan panel led by two former secretaries of state. Congress, in turn, should vote on any military action.

The National War Powers Commission, led by former Secretaries of State James Baker and Warren Christopher, seeks to scrap the War Powers Act of 1973, which it called impractical and ineffective. In a report released Tuesday, the commission proposes replacing the act with legislation that fosters cooperation between the White House and Congress and lays out a procedure the president must follow before sending troops into battle."

[Tom]

hcap, I would enjoy an Obama presidency because I would sit here everyday and have YOU explain the failure after failure, and keep posting the new Misery Index numbers every week, like you do polls. :lol:


BTW, hcap, how's that dem congress of your doing?
Accomplished ANYTHING yet?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Oh yeah, and the articles of impeachment? Ink dry yet? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Did you catch the Chenney perp-walk? Oh wait, that never happened either, now did it? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Let's see......what has happened so far under the dems? Hmmmmmmmm, ( Dana Carvey time) could it be NUH-THING? Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
Well isn't that special?

Guess you'll just have go fish for PERCH.

You and Obama - two empty suits, slightly wrinkled.:rolleyes::lol::lol:

[wonatthewire1]

... and I'd die by these words , Bush wasn't perfect but he kept the homefront safe . Helps your families sleep better at night . McCain could do the same , remains to be seen . Obama ? I'd be afraid to lay down at night !!


You 'merkins cry like old wimmin!

Get yer gun, put on your grenade belt and strap on your helmet - ya got nuttin to be afraid of

Its like being around a bunch of fake Harley drivers talking about iced lattes and chicken salad sandwiches!

:ThmbDown:

[46zilzal]

... and I'd die by these words , Bush wasn't perfect but he kept the homefront safe . Helps your families sleep better at night .
Yes many will soon be sleeping out in the street based upon the brain dead rutabaga's fiscal botching of the economy.

[wonatthewire1]

Yes many will soon be sleeping out in the street based upon the brain dead rutabaga's fiscal botching of the economy.

Zilly, you are so silly!

We got guns and can hunt for our own food or at least raid the local convenience store.

The economy is fine - we just need to print more money

:lol:

[riskman]

Obama has won a competition(nomination), but this does not mean he is "the best man." It comes closer to meaning that he is the worst man, just as McCain is in his party. Competition for the presidency follows a new path,. which is that candidates are ever more deceitful, cunning, crafty, two-faced, and power-hungry.In politics, there is a race to the bottom.

Obama’s nomination merely means that a black man has won the race to the bottom in securing his party’s nomination. This means that a black man has been found who has mastered the trade of delivering criminal actions suavely while conning enough of his victims so that he does not rend the State over which he presides. It means that a black man can lie as smoothly as a white man or woman, that he can switch positions as easily as a candidate of another race, and that he is equally adept at punching and counterpunching at his opponents.

Obama is calling for selflessness. When a politician does that, watch out. The con-man wants you to smile as he impales you. Selfishness has nothing to do with how Americans feel. Perhaps helplessness and frustration do. Having been manipulated into an increasingly helpless and deteriorating condition by their own governments, it is no wonder that Americans should voice despair. Despair is a realistic reaction to being tied up, bound and gagged, and rendered helpless by the government.. One cannot expect a man who is now owned by the status quo-- like Obama to do what needs to be done to alter that condition significantly. One can expect him to play upon the emotions generated by such conditions to his own and his party’s advantage.

Race is not much of an overt issue in this campaign. For me it is no issue at all because I won’t vote for either major candidate.

[46zilzal]

We got guns and can hunt for our own food or at least raid the local convenience store.

The economy is fine - we just need to print more money


Economy is fine..NOT according to the majority of experts.

[wonatthewire1]

ExpertS?

hmmmm---you're fine if you didn't fall into the debt trap that so many were a'selling...that's why I'm smiling all the time...

:D

Hey - no money down for a house?

Where are all those salespeople now? Not in auto showrooms

Maybe selling insurance or something! Or Debt Consolidation!

Or maybe working for the two idiots running for the big house - plenty of work there!

Think outside the box Zilly, not everything is in a book!

[Boris]

BTW, hcap, how's that dem congress of your doing?


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_performance/congressional_performance

Tuesday July 8, 2008

The percentage of voters who give Congress good or excellent ratings has fallen to single digits for the first time in Rasmussen Reports tracking history. This month, just 9% say Congress is doing a good or excellent job. Most voters (52%) say Congress is doing a poor job, which ties the record high in that dubious category.