Ellis Park to Reopen next week...

[NoCal Boy]

Maybe some semblance of peace...finally. It just says the horsemen get a larger share that they wanted, but nothing about whether it is 1/3 of the gross.

Ron Geary was a pioneer last year and maybe this year he was the man to finally bring this ADW situation to a point where progress can be made.

Maybe?

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080705/SPORTS08/80705003

[NoCal Boy]

I guess Geary gave up all the revenues from ADW, 6%, to the horsemen, but all ADW's will have the signal. Is this progress?

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2008/jul/05/sides-still-jockey-for-ellis-deal/

[Tom]

No, it is total failure by what sounds like a sell out.

BOYCOTT ELLIS PARK SELL OUTS

This is the perfect time for so-called unified horse-players to take a stand.
This is the Boston Tea party of ADWs. Let the bottom feeders win this and you can kiss you game good bye. Send a loud and claer message to Ellis Park - NO MAS!

[DJofSD]

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill.

[sjk]

I look forward to playing Ellis Park.

Money for purses means the horses will show up to run and we can hope to see better field sizes and more interesting racing.

[NoCal Boy]

Not sure I agree with this asessment. The horsemen wanted a certain amount for purses. If a track wants to give it to them while still allowing the ADW's to generate a fair return, then I see no problem with it. Geary made the decision that he wanted ADW's in the pools and agreed to let the horsemen get their 6%. This means less for the track, but larger wagering pools for everyone. This is certainly not the solution to the problem, but at least it is a step forward in my opinion.

The horsemen are not stating they are demanding 1/3 across for tracks, ADW's and purses, but that they want 1/3 for purses. How the other 2/3 gets divided up from an ADW wager is between the track and ADWs. If Ellis Park says the ADW's can have the bulk of the takeout commissions after payment to purses, then so be it. Another track might say the opposite or work out special deals with ADWS.

No, it is total failure by what sounds like a sell out.

BOYCOTT ELLIS PARK SELL OUTS

This is the perfect time for so-called unified horse-players to take a stand.
This is the Boston Tea party of ADWs. Let the bottom feeders win this and you can kiss you game good bye. Send a loud and claer message to Ellis Park - NO MAS!

[Indulto]

Not sure I agree with this asessment. The horsemen wanted a certain amount for purses. If a track wants to give it to them while still allowing the ADW's to generate a fair return, then I see no problem with it. Geary made the decision that he wanted ADW's in the pools and agreed to let the horsemen get their 6%. This means less for the track, but larger wagering pools for everyone. This is certainly not the solution to the problem, but at least it is a step forward in my opinion.

The horsemen are not stating they are demanding 1/3 across for tracks, ADW's and purses, but that they want 1/3 for purses. How the other 2/3 gets divided up from an ADW wager is between the track and ADWs. If Ellis Park says the ADW's can have the bulk of the takeout commissions after payment to purses, then so be it. Another track might say the opposite or work out special deals with ADWS.Geary is a horseplayer, no?

Maybe he'll get a big rebate from one of those ADWs. :D

[Wickel]

What percentage of ADW revenues are the horsemen getting now? 2 percent, 3 percent?

[Ron]

My club has a 3 year old Empire Maker filly there. I'm glad that they decided to run.

[NoCal Boy]

What percentage of ADW revenues are the horsemen getting now? 2 percent, 3 percent?

From this DRF article it appears the horsemen are getting 6% of the blended 19.5% takeout at Ellis. Not quite 1/3, but close enough per the comments in the article. I still believe 6% to horsemen when the takeout is 19.5% is a number that works for ADW's like Youbet and TVG so maybe this will help break the impasse.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/96104.html

[Pace Cap'n]

Per yesterday's article in the Courier-Press, the purse allocationis 5%...


Geary was excited to have agreements with 10 ADWs, including the television racing networks TVG and HRTV, figuring that additional outlets would result in increased handle. But horsemen nationwide are unhappy with a revenue split that puts between 2.5 and 3.25 percent of that money into purse accounts, compared to 8 percent from on-track betting.

Geary's agreements with the ADWs call for 5 percent to go to Ellis, divided evenly between purses and the track.


www.courierpress.com/news/ (http://www.courierpress.com/news/2008/jul/03/ellis-park-meet-could-start-next-week/)

[NoCal Boy]

Did the ADW's agree to up it to 6% for the signal? If not, it seems the track is actually negative on ADW (getting 5% and giving purses 6% from ADW wagers...this would not make sense). I hope it is the former so it might show some movement from all participants.

[DeanT]

Did the ADW's agree to up it to 6% for the signal? If not, it seems the track is actually negative on ADW (getting 5% and giving purses 6% from ADW wagers...this would not make sense). I hope it is the former so it might show some movement from all participants.

Horseman are not getting 6% by any report I can see. I have no idea what kind of math the Hiles guy is using. If I am wrong please correct me.

[DeanT]

Reading the website, ELP seems to be giving most of the ADW revenue to the purse account. Not very good for us players. No more wagering sales to bet into by the looks of it. Altho it may be only a couple of thousand dollars a card this year to ELP, it is not very good long term. Very bad news for us players and the sport, imo.

[karlskorner]

Every Horsemen's Assoc. throughout the country will be delighted to hear this, they are wetting their lips waiting for their turn.

[Pace Cap'n]

There is a disconnect between the two newspaper articles (referenced in post #1 and #11).

The earlier article does not state the agreement is for all the ADW fees to go to purses. The latter does. Which is correct?

[Kelso]

I look forward to playing Ellis Park.Sure you do. Do you look forward to winning purses bled from ADW bettors there, too?

[Kelso]

Geary made the decision that he wanted ADW's in the pools and agreed to let the horsemen get their 6%. This means less for the track, This means less for the players ... the only group paying the freight. Geary is a sellout or a fool - or both.

[takeout]

No, it is total failure by what sounds like a sell out.

BOYCOTT ELLIS PARK SELL OUTS

This is the perfect time for so-called unified horse-players to take a stand.


Amen!!! :ThmbUp: It's now or never.

[rastajenk]

If there is no racing at Ellis, there is no Host Track in Kentucky, and with no Host Track, there is no simulcasting anywhere in the state. The other tracks surely didn't want to be sitting empty this summer during Saratoga and Del Mar, so there must have been some pressure (bribe, kickback, protection money, etc) on Geary to settle for something so that the other tracks wouldn't have to settle for nothing.

I think the whole dust-up is probably a unique situation, and not the right place to "make a stand," or see a trend in the making, or open the door for appeasers, or any of that.

[sjk]

Sure you do. Do you look forward to winning purses bled from ADW bettors there, too?

I've bet over 48,000 races through ADWs and like to think I have been one of their better customers through the years.

How about you?

[takeout]

so there must have been some pressure (bribe, kickback, protection money, etc)
Something is sure fishy. The guy goes from closing his track to offering the horsemen almost 3 times what they were getting? :rolleyes:

[Indulto]

If there is no racing at Ellis, there is no Host Track in Kentucky, and with no Host Track, there is no simulcasting anywhere in the state. The other tracks surely didn't want to be sitting empty this summer during Saratoga and Del Mar, so there must have been some pressure (bribe, kickback, protection money, etc) on Geary to settle for something so that the other tracks wouldn't have to settle for nothing.

I think the whole dust-up is probably a unique situation, and not the right place to "make a stand," or see a trend in the making, or open the door for appeasers, or any of that.you make a lot of sense. What doen't make sense to me is why/how Geary's track supposedly get nothing at all.

[Tom]

Or, is that just his story?
I have a hard believing a the guy now.
Suppose he is getting his own personal pocket-liners for the big turn-around?

BOYCOTT ELLIS PARK
BOYCOTT ALL KENTUCKY TRACKS

[DJofSD]

What doen't make sense to me is why/how Geary's track supposedly get nothing at all.

Maybe it's protection. Or, they could be getting some other non-monitary considerations.

[Javagold]

never seen someone flip flop quicker ion a isse/take a stand then Ellis/Geary....guy must have no pride :rolleyes:

[chickenhead]

Geary is a sellout or a fool - or both.

The guy has spent considerable sums of his own cheddar trying to do things the right way. Throwing him under the bus for deciding to try and keep his losses at a little over a mil for the year is a bit rough.

How many million have you spent on the cause?

You can disagree with his decision, but show a little respect, he's a victim in this.

[Tom Barrister]

As usual, it's all about the money.

It's too bad Geary didn't close up the track, send notices to vacate the stalls in X days, and pack it in for the year. He certainly could afford to. That would send a message loud and clear to the Kentucky horsemen (and whoever else would try to extort more than their fair share) that it's a two-way street.

I will not make a bet on any races held at Ellis Park this year.

[rastajenk]

The guy has spent considerable sums of his own cheddar trying to do things the right way. Throwing him under the bus for deciding to try and keep his losses at a little over a mil for the year is a bit rough.
How many million have you spent on the cause?
You can disagree with his decision, but show a little respect, he's a victim in this.That's pretty much how I think I feel. He could have forced his own self-interest upon us, or he could knuckle under to a "greater good for the game" line of logic that goes beyond purses and handle. Who knows? I don't see any reason to draw and quarter the guy for trying to affect change. He's not Frank Stronach.

[Tom]

Zero Tolerance.
No prisoners.
It is the horseplayer and no one else matters.
Why should we care about anyone? No one else does.

Chick, think of it this way. How many millions have I put into this?
None.
How many millions have WE put into it - the loin's share. Think WE.
How can we ever unite if we don't.

[ezpace]

totally agree TOM..

Whose idea was that a while back

don't gamble at any track except one

like maybe Evangeline for a couple

months .. IF you all decide to I"m IN..

........

MAKE THEM SHUT DOWN FOR GOOD



TRACKS,HORSEMEN, BETTER DO SOMETHING REAL SOON

FOR THE FINANCIERS OF THEIR SPORT(HORSE PLAYERS)).

....NAMELY .DOPE A HORSE ..TRAINER IS GONE FOR A LONG TIME,

AND PAYING US AT THEIR TRACKS AND ADW'S.. (REBATES)

ALSO NO RAISING TRACK TAKE OUTS...


FOR NOW ...NOT A B E T IN KENTUCKY FOR ME

[takeout]

The horsemen must actually have the upper hand in this thing. ?? Can’t believe the tracks are letting the horsemen run them over this easily. It will be interesting to see the details of the Calder agreement.

[chickenhead]

Zero Tolerance.
No prisoners.
It is the horseplayer and no one else matters.
Why should we care about anyone? No one else does.

Chick, think of it this way. How many millions have I put into this?
None.
How many millions have WE put into it - the loin's share. Think WE.
How can we ever unite if we don't.

I guess my point was that Geary isn't the problem here. You want to boycott Kentucky do so because of the horsemen, not Geary. He is getting screwed royally on this, that's bad enough.

[ezrabrooks]

I can't believe the hostility toward the Ellis owner. I thought he was the board's favorite owner.. I guess it is the ole 'what have you done for me lately'. The guy blinked to save his business...nothing to be ashamed of. I wish him best of luck in staying open.

[Kelso]

I've bet over 48,000 races through ADWs and like to think I have been one of their better customers through the years.

How about you?I haven't come even close to your numbers.

Now, how 'bout answering the question I first put to you: "Do you look forward to winning purses bled from ADW bettors there, too?"

A follow-up, and more telling, question ... once you've responded to the first: have you made more money from rebates or from purses?

[Kelso]

The guy has spent considerable sums of his own cheddar

<snip>

You can disagree with his decision, but show a little respectOK, the guy is a rich fool. So what? Rich fools are everywhere. For confirmation, just take a stroll by the owners' boxes at any track.

What he's done previously is last year's news and irrelevent. Selling out bettors this week is the current issue.

[chickenhead]

OK, the guy is a rich fool. So what? Rich fools are everywhere. For confirmation, just take a stroll by the owners' boxes at any track.

What he's done previously is last year's news and irrelevent. Selling out bettors this week is the current issue.

If we act like 6 yr olds, maybe somehow we'll get our way. Is that the logic? And how did he sell you out exactly? None of that money was headed your way, anyhow. It was the tracks money.

You can't make the argument that it's no ones business what the ADW does with their cut besides the ADW, but then be ready to hang Geary from a tree for deciding what to do with his cut. Or can you?

Interesting duality there.

[sjk]

I haven't come even close to your numbers.

Now, how 'bout answering the question I first put to you: "Do you look forward to winning purses bled from ADW bettors there, too?"

A follow-up, and more telling, question ... once you've responded to the first: have you made more money from rebates or from purses?

I've made more money from betting the game as it is presently constituted by betting and winning money without rebates.

Devote some of your excess energy to improving your play and maybe you can be a winner too.

[Wickel]

The best thing about this whole issue is that both sides are finally talking again. I personally feel that greed has engulfed the owners and trainers. I read somewhere--maybe on this thread--that their trying to bleed out the ADWs to acquire more leverage at the negotiating table next year. But they need to be very careful where they step. Hurt us players and they will feel a wrath like no fury they've every felt!!!

[Cangamble]

By caving into the horsemen, I expect signal fees to rise, and this can cause quite a few repurcussions mainly for race tracks:
http://cangamble.blogspot.com/2008/07/will-ellis-park-signal-deal-influence.html

[takeout]

http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=8623022&nav=menu54_3
[snip]
Geary said the deal is unheard-of in the horse racing industry.
[snip]

No kidding. :rolleyes: Now what are they going to want next year?

[Kelso]

If we act like 6 yr olds, maybe somehow we'll get our way. Is that the logic?Of course not; so why would you choose to ask such a six-year-oldish question?


And how did he sell you out exactly? None of that money was headed your way, anyhow. It was the tracks money.It was track money that WAS ... but is, now, no longer ... available to reduce takeout for players. Instead, Geary's giving it to the greedy bastards. Does his choice of recipients please YOU?

BTW, and according to an article posted in another thread, Geary raised the signal fee paid by the ADWs. This, of course, reduces the money available for rebates. The players take it in the ass again! Fine by you?

You can't make the argument that it's no ones business what the ADW does with their cut besides the ADW, but then be ready to hang Geary from a tree for deciding what to do with his cut. Or can you?

Interesting duality there.Of course I can ... and should ... as per my "greedy bastard" comment, above.

Clearly, no duality whatsoever ... other than to folks, such as yourself, who are looking to force such where none exists. Why do you do stuff like that?

[Kelso]

I've made more money from betting the game as it is presently constituted by betting and winning money without rebates.

Devote some of your excess energy to improving your play and maybe you can be a winner too. And still you refuse to answer the questions. Why is that?

HEY ... YOU"RE ONE OF THOSE GREEDY HORSEMEN, ARENCHA!?!?! :eek: (Of course you are.)

Well, if I, too, was a self-absorbed horseman, I s'pose I might act just as you do: trying to conceal my driving greed ... and displaying utter contempt for my fellow players ... by dancing around pertinent questions and spinning answers

[takeout]

http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=8630123&nav=3w6o#

[snip]
"If we have a successful meet, the whole county is probably going to be looking at this model as something all the other tracks can be looking at."
[snip]

Unbelievable. How do you go from, “I’m closing my track” to this?

[Tom]

The slots should be using this guy as an advertisment! What better way to increase thier business than to show ours at work! Betweent this, the past posting being purposely allowed to continue, and Big Deal, er Brown, lollygagging down the stretch, you have to be nuts to believe in the integrity of racing.

[NoCal Boy]

It very well might be because it is too early to revise their schedules for later this week, but I do find it curious that Ellis Park is not listed on the schedules for TVG, HRTV, Twinspires, Xpressbet or Youbet for this Friday.

You don't think....NO WAY

[Burls]

BOYCOTT ELLIS PARK SELL OUTS

This is the perfect time for so-called unified horse-players to take a stand. ...
Send a loud and claer message to Ellis Park - NO MAS!
Ellis is going to have to find a way to get along without the takeout from my hard-earned wagering dollars.
I won't really affect Ellis much by myself.
But if enough of us little guys boycott tracks like Ellis and Calder ....

[GlenninOhio]

And still you refuse to answer the questions. Why is that?

HEY ... YOU"RE ONE OF THOSE GREEDY HORSEMEN, ARENCHA!?!?! :eek: (Of course you are.)

Well, if I, too, was a self-absorbed horseman, I s'pose I might act just as you do: trying to conceal my driving greed ... and displaying utter contempt for my fellow players ... by dancing around pertinent questions and spinning answers like a democrat. (You one o' THOSE, too? )

What is your problem, dude?

I guess in your own narrow little world, the words "greedy" and "horsemen" are joined at the hip? Talk about displaying "utter contempt"!

Do you really believe those horsemen will make money hand over fist with the new agreement? Have you ever checked out the purses at Ellis for the meat and potatoes claiming races? These "greedy horsemen" are running for a ham sandwich for the most part.

[Kelso]

What is your problem, dude?Another lame apologist for greedy bastards heard from. Learn to read for comprehension and you won't have to ask such insipid questions, dud.


Talk about displaying "utter contempt"!Well there ya go. You actually can understand some things. Well done, dud.


Do you really believe those horsemen will make money hand over fist with the new agreement? Have you ever checked out the purses at Ellis for the meat and potatoes claiming races? These "greedy horsemen" are running for a ham sandwich for the most part.If they can't make it, that's their problem. Nobody's forcing them to race horses. They've amply demonstrated that they don't give a rat's ass about the players. Why should we worry if they can't afford their wives' liposuction?


(HEY ... you wouldn't be one o' those brilliant horsemen for whom Ohio is so widely admired, would ya? :lol: )

[GlenninOhio]

Another lame apologist for greedy bastards heard from. Learn to read for comprehension and you won't have to ask such insipid questions, dud.


Well there ya go. You actually can understand some things. Well done, dud.


If they can't make it, that's their problem. Nobody's forcing them to race horses. They've amply demonstrated that they don't give a rat's ass about the players. Why should we worry if they can't afford their wives' liposuction?


(HEY ... you wouldn't be one o' those brilliant horsemen for whom Ohio is so widely admired, would ya? :lol: )


Wow.

Sorry to have rattled your cage - I didn't realize the depth and the extent of your issues.

I wish you all the best in your struggle to attain some semblance of mental health.

[rastajenk]

No shit.

[chickenhead]

It was track money that WAS ... but is, now, no longer ... available to reduce takeout for players. Instead, Geary's giving it to the greedy bastards. Does his choice of recipients please YOU?

It was not available for rebates, the track would have been closed. It was a binary choice, forced by the horsemen, which again goes back to who is forcing this. The horsemen, not Geary.

BTW, and according to an article posted in another thread, Geary raised the signal fee paid by the ADWs. This, of course, reduces the money available for rebates. The players take it in the ass again! Fine by you?

There is no question that it is the ADWs who are the subject of this attack, it is their piece of the pie that the horsemen are going after. Which of course brings up the question, why did the ADWs agree to pay a higher signal fee? A track trying to charge higher signal fees doesn't exactly floor me, don't they all try to charge the highest signal fee the market will bear? The question then is why did the market decide to bear a higher signal fee for little Ellis Park? And is that not a more or less direct acquiescence to the horsemen on the part of the ADWs?

It seems obvious to me there is something else going on here behind the scenes, I just don't know what it is.

[trigger]

It was not available for rebates, the track would have been closed. It was a binary choice, forced by the horsemen, which again goes back to who is forcing this. The horsemen, not Geary.



There is no question that it is the ADWs who are the subject of this attack, it is their piece of the pie that the horsemen are going after. Which of course brings up the question, why did the ADWs agree to pay a higher signal fee? A track trying to charge higher signal fees doesn't exactly floor me, don't they all try to charge the highest signal fee the market will bear? The question then is why did the market decide to bear a higher signal fee for little Ellis Park? And is that not a more or less direct acquiescence to the horsemen on the part of the ADWs?

It seems obvious to me there is something else going on here behind the scenes, I just don't know what it is.

Not sure what you your point is about a higher signal fee...although the fee paid by the ADWs to Ellis of 5-8% may have been a little higher than in the past, it still means that these ADWs keep 15-12% (or 75%-60% of the total takeout) of the average overall 20% takeout.
Doesn't look like the ADWs "acquiescenced" much to me.

[Indulto]

It was not available for rebates, the track would have been closed. It was a binary choice, forced by the horsemen, which again goes back to who is forcing this. The horsemen, not Geary.



There is no question that it is the ADWs who are the subject of this attack, it is their piece of the pie that the horsemen are going after. Which of course brings up the question, why did the ADWs agree to pay a higher signal fee? A track trying to charge higher signal fees doesn't exactly floor me, don't they all try to charge the highest signal fee the market will bear? The question then is why did the market decide to bear a higher signal fee for little Ellis Park? And is that not a more or less direct acquiescence to the horsemen on the part of the ADWs?

It seems obvious to me there is something else going on here behind the scenes, I just don't know what it is.I think so too.

The agreement would have made sense to me if it were limited to handle up to the average over the last few years. Beyond that, ELP should have received its share of the increase fostered by its new management.

Anything else is purse inflation at horseplayer expense and bettor subsidy of drug use and poor breeding choices.

[Kelso]

Wow.

Sorry to have rattled your cage - I didn't realize the depth and the extent of your issues.

I wish you all the best in your struggle to attain some semblance of mental health.So, in addition to being an apologist for greedy bastards, you emulate their aversion to providing straight answers to direct questions; to wit: HEY ... you wouldn't be one o' those brilliant horsemen for whom Ohio is so widely admired, would ya?

How typically pathetic and cowardly of you.

[Kelso]

It was not available for rebates, the track would have been closed.I didn't suggest the track money would have been available for rebates. I said it would have been available to reduce takeout.

[NoCal Boy]

I think some people are a bit confused with Ellis. I understand that Geary negotiated a signal rate of between 5% and 8% from ADW's. It seems like common sense that the largest ones like TVG and Youbet would likely pay the 5% as they bring the most bang into the pools, while the smaller ones likely pay upwards to 8% (whomever they might be). This is the total signal fee. Normally this gets split 50-50 with horsemen. Instead, it appears Geary will give all of the 5% from TVg and Youbet to the horsemen and others a higher share to get to the 6%. TVG and Youbet do not care right now as they are still paying 5%. What Ellis does with its 5% is their business. Longer term is a ?? since how many tracks will do anything like this? But there is no doubt the major ADW's bring handle to the tracks and this is significant to many tracks.

[PaceAdvantage]

Allow me to apologize for Kelso and his belligerent outbursts and TOS violations. He has been permanently removed from the board. It's amazing what happens when I don't get on the board for a day or two. It's as if they know...

[Cangamble]

I think some people are a bit confused with Ellis. I understand that Geary negotiated a signal rate of between 5% and 8% from ADW's. It seems like common sense that the largest ones like TVG and Youbet would likely pay the 5% as they bring the most bang into the pools, while the smaller ones likely pay upwards to 8% (whomever they might be). This is the total signal fee. Normally this gets split 50-50 with horsemen. Instead, it appears Geary will give all of the 5% from TVg and Youbet to the horsemen and others a higher share to get to the 6%. TVG and Youbet do not care right now as they are still paying 5%. What Ellis does with its 5% is their business. Longer term is a ?? since how many tracks will do anything like this? But there is no doubt the major ADW's bring handle to the tracks and this is significant to many tracks.
Do you think that Geary is paying for the extra 1% for these alleged Youbet contracts or that the horsemen are accepting the full 5% and not a dime more?

[trigger]

Not sure what you your point is about a higher signal fee...although the fee paid by the ADWs to Ellis of 5-8% may have been a little higher than in the past, it still means that these ADWs keep 15-12% (or 75%-60% of the total takeout) of the average overall 20% takeout.
Doesn't look like the ADWs "acquiescenced" much to me.

All the ADWs should be forced to give all their bettors a 5% (at least) rebate/takeout reduction......75% of total takeout for the ADWs is way too much.

[Indulto]

Allow me to apologize for Kelso and his belligerent outbursts and TOS violations. He has been permanently removed from the board. It's amazing what happens when I don't get on the board for a day or two. It's as if they know...Another Jersey resident bites the dust. This is called getting the hack-and-sack. ;)

5x,
Thanks for the memories, and for turning me around on the horseman issue. Who says people's minds don't get changed here?

[horses721]

All the ADWs should be forced to give all their bettors a 5% (at least) rebate/takeout reduction......75% of total takeout for the ADWs is way too much.
If starting up and running an ADW is so easy and profitable, why don't the horsemen start one up. After all, it must be very inexpensive to run one based on the opinions of the horsemen and people that post on these message boards! I'm sure they could organize a group to spend a few dollars of their money to get it going and look at all the money they could rake in.

[David-LV]

Will ELS be shown on TVG or HRTV this meet?

If the answer is yes, does anybody know the start date?

Thank You,

________
David

[startngate]

All the ADWs should be forced to give all their bettors a 5% (at least) rebate/takeout reduction......75% of total takeout for the ADWs is way too much.And if they actually got to keep that you would be right. However, the ADW's are also paying a source market fee on ALL wagers that come from within the defined source markets nation-wide. It's been reported that for YouBet and the old AmericaTab that number was 7% for all customers within 25 miles of a track ... this is in addition to the host fee. TVG claims to pay 11%, with 3% host fees.

While not every customer lives within 25 miles of a track, on all wagers where this does occur, the ADW can actually be paying out from 12% to 15% of that 20% blended rate.

Oh, and don't forget the TVG and Track Net "media or exclusive fees" which are reportedly ranging from between 2% (for TrackNet tracks) and 5.5% (on TVG tracks for YouBet).

Since the tracks that are getting the most wagering are probably those with the highest host fee, I'm guessing many of the ADW's are probably lucky to keep 25% to 30% of the total takeout.

If starting up and running an ADW is so easy and profitable, why don't the horsemen start one up. After all, it must be very inexpensive to run one based on the opinions of the horsemen and people that post on these message boards! I'm sure they could organize a group to spend a few dollars of their money to get it going and look at all the money they could rake in.They were going to try to do just that ... back in 2004.

http://www.hbpa.org/newsdisplay.asp?section=3&key1=3655






It's still not open by the way ... :lol:

[Toss_DeLoser]

Will ELS be shown on TVG or HRTV this meet?

If the answer is yes, does anybody know the start date?

Thank You,

________
David

Looks like TVG, today.

http://www.tvg.com/Open/schedule/split.asp

[David-LV]

Looks like TVG, today.

http://www.tvg.com/Open/schedule/split.asp



Thank You.

_________
David