Off Shore Booking

[Larry Hamilton]

I am aware this subject has been a topic of discussion several times. In the past, many outlined what was positive about off shore booking. What I want to see is a discussion of the risks, for instance:

If you are a consistent winner, why would they keep you as a client? If you aren't, why are you doing what you are doing?

What's to prevent them from just closing the book and keeping your money? What's to prevent them from just keeping your money and leaving the book open to those who lose?

[Rick Ransom]

Larry,

I don't know if off-shore bookmakers do this, but some of them in the states like to have winning players so they can selectively lay off action on the much larger amount bet by other players on the same horse. Some have even been known to pay players to stay with them! A good bookie tries to get all the information he can and knowing where he is taking a risk is valuable information. I don't know if the off-shore guys are that smart though. Most of them just limit bet sizes and payoffs because it's easier.

Some of these bookies are players also. If they're positive that you're a winning player they can burn other bookies with even larger bets out of their own pocket.

This kind of thing is even more common in sports betting, where they encourage the best players to bet early so that the line is solid when they offer it to the public. You've probably heard of this happening in Vegas sports books on NFL football, but it also happens in other sports as well.

On the other side of the coin, some bookies think that nobody can win. The "Sport of Kings" in Las Vegas was the latest that I can remember. They would take pretty much any bet because they didn't believe in "smart money" and they lost their shirts over it in a short period of time. I think that was proof positive that there are winning horseplayers, so most bookies have learned their lesson.

[Larry Hamilton]

I am considering my next step in this game...I want to be able to bet $300 in a Penn national pool without disturbing the State budget...off shore books could be the answer and, i hope, dont offer too much risk.

[hurrikane]

Larry, the only stories I have heard are with ESB. I don't use them so someone who does should probably address this. I heard one story that they stopped accepting bets on a couple of tracks where this guy was winning..they said he was using someones picks that they don't accept...I assume because he was winning.
Funny thing is nobody had heard of this phantom picker.
Biggest problem I have heard of is on the bookkeeping side of thngs. They miss scratches all the time and will correct but you have to keep copius records (as we all should anyway) and address, immediatly,any problems......

I too would like to bet out of the pools..but as you say..who is to stop them from keeping the money. It's not like they fall under US laws and you could recover from any wrongdoing.

[Rick Ransom]

hurrikane,

The only thing they have to lose is a reputation. There are some who are keeping track of complaints. I thing Rolling Good Times (www.rgtonline) is one.

Larry,

I doubt that you can bet that much on Penn National at one place. You'll probably have to spread it around. If you were living in Nevada it would be easy.

[tilson]

Originally posted by Larry Hamilton
I am considering my next step in this game...I want to be able to bet $300 in a Penn national pool without disturbing the State budget...off shore books could be the answer and, i hope, dont offer too much risk.

just my 2 cents, i have no idea why anyone would even want to play offshore. I mean the way i see it it is a lose lose situation.
1st you have to worry about if they are on the up and up. Secondly, why would a guy want his plays tracked ?
If a guy was successful to any degree whatsoever i can GUARANTEE one of two things happening:
1....they will refuse your play
2...they will follow your plays and seriously hurt your odds and thus any edge you may have had.

[Rick Ransom]

tilson,

You could very well be right, but if they're greedy and want to follow your plays, they'd be better off betting with another bookmaker rather than into the parimutuel pool. As to reputations, the big guys have more to gain by staying in business. The small guys might run off with your money and start up again under a different name. Unless you're in Nevada you could have the same problem with any bookie though.

[smf]

Larry,

I wouldn't trust my money with an org that isn't accountable by US law. If they are accountable to the feds, I don't see a risk but all those books are kind of scary if you ask me.

[NoDayJob]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by smf
[B]Larry,

I wouldn't trust my money with an org that isn't accountable by US law.

I agree if you are talking about the "bucket" shops in Costa Rica. The OS casinoes run under Dutch scrutiny are very, very reliable. They are audited every six months and the last time I checked the license was around 100 grand a year. They might cut you off from certain tracks however. They dropped me after they had to pay off several large wagers I made. I'm persona non gratia -NDJ

[Jake]

NDJ.

Appreciate your post. I've been wondering what happens when you hit a few too many large wagers at these OS sites. I thought perhaps the English-backed ones might be more flexible, but I have heard the same stories with them as well. Not looking for winning players. Thanks again.


Originally posted by NoDayJob
[QUOTE]Originally posted by smf
[B]Larry,

I wouldn't trust my money with an org that isn't accountable by US law.

I agree if you are talking about the "bucket" shops in Costa Rica. The OS casinoes run under Dutch scrutiny are very, very reliable. They are audited every six months and the last time I checked the license was around 100 grand a year. They might cut you off from certain tracks however. They dropped me after they had to pay off several large wagers I made. I'm persona non gratia -NDJ

[Dick Schmidt]

Because I live in California, I am unable to bet on Cal tracks, nor does my online betting site (Winticket) carry
NYRA or the Churchill Downs tracks. To circumvent this I have been using an offshore account in the Dutch Antilles that has been excellent. The Aces Gold site is not the easiest to use, but it accepts any and all bets, as it is pair-mutual and commingles with the tracks. You still step on your own prices if you bet a lot at a small track, but at least you get paid.

www.acesgoldcasino.com

Just a thought: if you worry about your money overseas, what about right here at home? If, say U-Bet were to go broke and file Chapter 11, wouldn't we all be unsecured creditors at the back of the line? I don't leave much in any account and churn my money 2 or 3 times a day. If I hit a bad patch, I can add more almost instantly with a credit card.

[Topcat]

I've used Aces Gold and the Ontario Jockey Club with success.

[smf]

Dick,

No, youbet isn't the account wagering "facility". Youbet doesn't handle funds at all. Ladbrokes does, and your money is safe there. It will change over to another account after the sale to cdsn goes thru, I'm sure.

Topcat,

i'd love to wager w/ OJC, but they're really limited on the tracks they cover in the US. FG is the only track I play they carry. I think a lot of folks are in that same boat.

[WaHoo]

i reccomend Acesgold, i've been using them about 3 months, no problems

[RECON]

I TOO USE ACES GOLD AND LIKE THE SEVICE VERY MUCH --- THEY RECENTLY STARTED TO PUT UP THE NEXT DAYS "BOARDS" MUCH EARLIER SO I CAN BET BEFORE WORK IF I CHOOSE

[Lefty]

Rick, every bet made in NV these days(legally)goes right
into parimutuel pool. No bets are turned down these days as the books are on commission. Only exception is
a quinella bet where there is no track Q so on these races some racebooks accept a "house Q where they book the action and they will limit you; especially if you win.

[Rick Ransom]

I agree. Aces Gold seems to be reliable but they don't carry all tracks.