How does Big Brown compare...

[keithw84]

How would you compare Big Brown to the other horses that have recently won 2 of the 3 TC races (Real Quiet, Smarty Jones, Funny Cide, Afleet Alex, etc.)?

[Tom]

The worst.
Not worth remembering.

[Bruddah]

The worst.
Not worth remembering.


What he said. :ThmbDown:

[Irish Boy]

Better than the last two, worse than the first two.

[slewis]

Absolutely faster then all.

[Semipro]

Absolutely faster then all.I concur:ThmbUp:

[Javagold]

IF HE RAN DEAD LAST TO THAT AWFUL 2008 BELMONT FIELD, IM SURE HE WOULD FINISH DEAD LAST TO THIS GROUP AS WELL


W-SMARTY JONES
P- AFLEET ALEX
S- REAL QUIET
FUNNY CIDE
BIG BROWN

[Shenanigans]

He's a joke compared to that group. I remember reading somewhere that half of the people that showed up at Belmont for his race were there to see him lose. That can't be said for the others.

[joanied]

He's a joke compared to that group. I remember reading somewhere that half of the people that showed up at Belmont for his race were there to see him lose. That can't be said for the others.

I hope that isn't true... are folks actually not liking Big Brown because they don't like Dutrow... that would be **&%##@* pathetic:mad:

[Cratos]

How would you compare Big Brown to the other horses that have recently won 2 of the 3 TC races (Real Quiet, Smarty Jones, Funny Cide, Afleet Alex, etc.)?

The question shouldn’t be in my opinion whether Big Brown would beat either of the recent 2-TC race winners, but whom did he beat of his own generation to be given that consideration. Funny Cide and Real Quiet might have had the toughest competition although Medaglia d’Oro of the War Emblem era came on to be a very good horse up to 1-1/8 miles.

My answer to your question is that he would have finished behind each of the recent 2-TC race winners

[Shenanigans]

I hope that isn't true... are folks actually not liking Big Brown because they don't like Dutrow... that would be **&%##@* pathetic:mad:

New York crowds are tough, but the boos the horse got wasn't because they lost money on him.

[PaceAdvantage]

I remember reading somewhere that half of the people that showed up at Belmont for his race were there to see him lose.Yeah....ok....oh wait, that's right, now I remember the guy in the checker jacket taking that poll by the main entrance....:rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

How would you compare Big Brown to the other horses that have recently won 2 of the 3 TC races (Real Quiet, Smarty Jones, Funny Cide, Afleet Alex, etc.)?

The only horse I would put above Big Brown on that list would be Smarty Jones, and maybe I might place Afleet Alex on the same level as Big Brown...maybe....

Real Quiet and Funny Cide I feel are inferior to Big Brown.

[Shenanigans]

The only horse I would put above Big Brown on that list would be Smarty Jones, and maybe I might place Afleet Alex on the same level as Big Brown...maybe....

Real Quiet and Funny Cide I feel are inferior to Big Brown.

This just shows your knowledge of good horses....... laughable.:lol:

[santanajimi]

The only horse I would put above Big Brown on that list would be Smarty Jones, and maybe I might place Afleet Alex on the same level as Big Brown...maybe....

Real Quiet and Funny Cide I feel are inferior to Big Brown.


I think your right on the money....but Alex and Smarty on top for sure.

[slewis]

Yeah....ok....oh wait, that's right, now I remember the guy in the checker jacket taking that poll by the main entrance....:rolleyes:

Ok , Now EVERYONE knows who I am!!:D

[classhandicapper]

IMO, it's impossible to know. He's had too limited a racing career to compare him to some of the others very well.

The Belmont is a total toss regardless of the reason for the performance. He obviously didn't run to his ability that day.

The Preakness was slow, but the performance itself was kind of vague because it was against a very weak field and he won so easily.

On the surface, the Derby wasn't super fast, but he lost an absolute ton of ground. On the flip side, ground loss didn't seem to be a huge disadvantage that day at CD (at least not length for length) . That's often the case at CD. IMO, this performance was also kind of vague though obviously very very good.

I don't think we will be able to evaluate this horse at that specific a level unless he comes back and runs a few more times.

[Pace Cap'n]

Apparently, many are of the opinion that the Belmont race was the norm, and the other five races were simply aberrations.

[NY BRED]

Corollary could be the ride of the Jockeys in the Belmont


Kent is dead heated for worst ride on both counts

[PaceAdvantage]

He's a joke compared to that group.One could easily reply in a similar tone, so I will:

This just shows your knowledge of good horses....... laughable.:lol:

Another who apparently suffers from DUTROW DERANGEMENT SYNDROME and who lets the man cloud her judgement of horse flesh...

Shenanigans apparently missed the Florida Derby, The Kentucky Derby and The Preakness, and has only seen Big Brown in one race, The Belmont Stakes.

[joanied]

The only horse I would put above Big Brown on that list would be Smarty Jones, and maybe I might place Afleet Alex on the same level as Big Brown...maybe....

Real Quiet and Funny Cide I feel are inferior to Big Brown.

Me too.

Has everyone forgotten Charismatic?

[joanied]

New York crowds are tough, but the boos the horse got wasn't because they lost money on him.

Lost money...wasn't thinking along those lines... I doubt anyone cared about that...maybe cared that they didn't have Triple Crown ticket to save...
I know how New Yorker's are...I AM a New Yorker:jump:
still...I do hope the boo's were not for Big Brown...none of that fiaso was his fault.

[joanied]

One could easily reply in a similar tone, so I will:

This just shows your knowledge of good horses....... laughable.:lol:

Another who apparently suffers from DUTROW DERANGEMENT SYNDROME and who lets the man cloud her judgement of horse flesh...

Shenanigans apparently missed the Florida Derby, The Kentucky Derby and The Preakness, and has only seen Big Brown in one race, The Belmont Stakes.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Shenanigans]

One could easily reply in a similar tone, so I will:

This just shows your knowledge of good horses....... laughable.:lol:

Another who apparently suffers from DUTROW DERANGEMENT SYNDROME and who lets the man cloud her judgement of horse flesh...

Shenanigans apparently missed the Florida Derby, The Kentucky Derby and The Preakness, and has only seen Big Brown in one race, The Belmont Stakes.


Ooooo... the horse is a great champion even though he flopped in his sixth outing in his life......Are you serious? This is what is wrong with racing today. Everyone is dying for a "champion" that anymore, if a horse wins the KD, it's the biggest champion in the world regardless of what kind of field it ran against, and how many races in won coming into the race. It's sad. Today, newer racing fans have to lower their standards as to what a great horse is just to say they saw one. OK, BB is "great", according to your standards, which obviously are much lower than mine.;)

[PaceAdvantage]

Ooooo... the horse is a great champion even though he flopped in his sixth outing in his life......Are you serious?Huh? The question was, where in my opinion does BB rank among the horses named in the original post.

I would not consider any of the horses listed in the original thread great champions. Not Smarty Jones, not Afleet Alex, and certainly not Real Quiet or Funny Cide.

I thought Big Brown showed a lot of potential and could have easily become a great champion, the same with Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex and the potential they showed during their Triple Crown runs. However, just like Smarty and AA, it appears Big Brown will only race a few more times (if at all), making that designation impossible.

[joanied]

Huh? The question was, where in my opinion does BB rank among the horses named in the original post.

I would not consider any of the horses listed in the original thread great champions. Not Smarty Jones, not Afleet Alex, and certainly not Real Quiet or Funny Cide.

I thought Big Brown showed a lot of potential and could have easily become a great champion, the same with Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex and the potential they showed during their Triple Crown runs. However, just like Smarty and AA, it appears Big Brown will only race a few more times (if at all), making that designation impossible.

Again.....:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:
I wonder what you, Shenanigans, would define as a great Champion... how about Curlin? Living with incredibly high expectations, which you appear to have (within the industry) is going to cause you a lot of disappointment...why not just enjoy what we have, and hope that Big Brown comes back to race a few more times, win like he did before the Belmont, and bask in the fun of seeing a really GOOD horse do his thing.
Great Champions are few and far between, especially as it was mentioned by PA, to be a great champion a horse really needs to race beyond his 3 yr. old campaign...unless it's Secretariat....unless he wins more than a handful of grade 1's, sets some records, goes unbeaten, or nearly so....something to that effect.

:)

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't think a horse has to run beyond his 3yo campaign in order to be termed a great champion. You mention Secretariat...he's an obvious one....

Holy Bull only had one complete race as a 4yo, so his entire career essentially was achieved as a 3yo....and I would certainly slap the great champion label on Holy Bull. In fact, I think he was the last colt to race primarily as a 3yo that deserves to wear this label.

[Shenanigans]

Again.....:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:
I wonder what you, Shenanigans, would define as a great Champion... how about Curlin? Living with incredibly high expectations, which you appear to have (within the industry) is going to cause you a lot of disappointment...why not just enjoy what we have, and hope that Big Brown comes back to race a few more times, win like he did before the Belmont, and bask in the fun of seeing a really GOOD horse do his thing.
Great Champions are few and far between, especially as it was mentioned by PA, to be a great champion a horse really needs to race beyond his 3 yr. old campaign...unless it's Secretariat....unless he wins more than a handful of grade 1's, sets some records, goes unbeaten, or nearly so....something to that effect.

:)

No disappointment here honey, I am just more realistic than some and I don't live in a fantasy land.;)

[keithw84]

Me too.

Has everyone forgotten Charismatic?

Yeah, I couldn't think of them all off the top of my head. Throw Charismatic, Point Given and War Emblem into the mix too.

[joanied]

I don't think a horse has to run beyond his 3yo campaign in order to be termed a great champion. You mention Secretariat...he's an obvious one....

Holy Bull only had one complete race as a 4yo, so his entire career essentially was achieved as a 3yo....and I would certainly slap the great champion label on Holy Bull. In fact, I think he was the last colt to race primarily as a 3yo that deserves to wear this label.

Now that you mention that...yes, I agree, they don't really have to run past their 3 yr old campaigns...as in Holy Bull...I would consider him a great champion.
In fact...what :blush: was I thinking!!!

[joanied]

Yeah, I couldn't think of them all off the top of my head. Throw Charismatic, Point Given and War Emblem into the mix too.

OKIE-DOKIE then!!!!
:jump:

Maybe now we'd have to put Point Given at the top of that list? Above Smarty & Alex?

[joanied]

No disappointment here honey, I am just more realistic than some and I don't live in a fantasy land.;)

Honey?? :mad: Fantasy Land??:mad:

Fine...you are a hard core realist...but don't tell me I live in a Fantasy Land because I choose to enjoy the really good horses when we have them here to enjoy...it has nothing to do with being realistic.
And please...do not refer to me as 'honey'

[Shenanigans]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[DeanT]

I think AA was tremendous and could have been an all time great. What a well put together animal.

BB? I dont think we'll ever know. I think he has too many physical issues to find out how good he is, or isn't. I hope I am wrong. I would love to see him up against a good field and wow me. I do like the horse and think he has done nothing wrong when he is physically right. Not his fault who he has raced against. And I cant hold it against the horse that his trainer is a weenie.

[Semipro]

Apparently, many are of the opinion that the Belmont race was the norm, and the other five races were simply aberrations.I wish I had said that first.:ThmbUp:

[joanied]

I wish I had said that first.:ThmbUp:

I agree:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[joanied]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:ThmbDown: Me thinks you have a bad attitude :p

[Wickel]

One could easily reply in a similar tone, so I will:

This just shows your knowledge of good horses....... laughable.:lol:

Another who apparently suffers from DUTROW DERANGEMENT SYNDROME and who lets the man cloud her judgement of horse flesh...

Shenanigans apparently missed the Florida Derby, The Kentucky Derby and The Preakness, and has only seen Big Brown in one race, The Belmont Stakes.

Big Brown was awesome in his allowance race, and awesome in the Florida Derby and Preakness against some arguably suspect competition. In the Kentucky Derby he appeared to be awesome against some strong competition, but he wasn't. Colonel John and Pyro were sawed off at the start, shuffled back and each lost at least 6-7 lengths at the start. That's not counting what happened to them the rest of them. Gayego broke slowly and was herded back before being rushed. If you watch the Preakness, Gayego broke slowly again, then was really sent. Colonel John recovered sufficiently to run a decent sixth--after suffering maybe 10 lengths of trouble. Pyro proved his Derby was a fluke with a convincing win the other day at Churchill. Colonel John will do the same in his comebacker. The situation reminds me of Any Given Saturday, who suffered the same horrendous trip in the Derby, then returned like a monster. Big Brown's a good horse, but he's not on the same level as Smarty, Alex or the others. If both horses would have run their races, it's my opinion that Casino Drive would have drilled him.

[PaceAdvantage]

In the Kentucky Derby he appeared to be awesome against some strong competition, but he wasn't. Colonel John and Pyro were sawed off at the start, shuffled back and each lost at least 6-7 lengths at the start. That's not counting what happened to them the rest of them. Gayego broke slowly and was herded back before being rushed. If you watch the Preakness, Gayego broke slowly again, then was really sent. Colonel John recovered sufficiently to run a decent sixth--after suffering maybe 10 lengths of trouble.Awww man, come on...you could provide the same type of excuses for almost any Kentucky Derby in existence!! Based on your theory, almost no Kentucky Derby winner in RECENT (monster field size) HISTORY is legitimate!

[Wickel]

I'm not saying Big Brown is not legit, he's just not the superstar everyone makes him out to be--Dutrow and IEAH excluded. Things being even with Colonel John and Pyro, I'd say we'd have ourselves a horse race.

[Shenanigans]

:ThmbDown: Me thinks you have a bad attitude :p

Honey, you thinks wrong. You're post are just a bit comical with a naive twist at times. Everyone needs a laugh now and then. Thanks for them.:lol:

[Marshall Bennett]

Sounds like this thread needs to be moved to some off the wall internet chat room . :p

[domino1891]

Sounds like this thread needs to be moved to some off the wall internet chat room . :p

Everyone loves a CATFIGHT!

[Pace Cap'n]

Don't anyone DARE lock this thread!

[delayjf]

I would have to disagree with regards to Real Quiet - he lost the triple crown literally by and inch then went on to win grade 1 races as a four year old. His Beyers for the Derby and the Preakness were better (I think). Won grade 1 races as a 2, 3, and 4 year old. The only horse in the list I would give BB the nod over was Funny Cide.

[joanied]

Everyone loves a CATFIGHT!

MEOW!!! ;)
:) :) :)

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

I love this board!

Long Live PaceAdvantage.com!!!

Dr. SwineSmeller

[joanied]

I love this board!

Long Live PaceAdvantage.com!!!

Dr. SwineSmeller

Never a dull moment :jump:

[TheGhost]

Basically it comes down too,what were all there times in the TC races and what was the talent of their fields. That's all.

[PaceAdvantage]

She called you 'honey' again because she knew damn well it would push a button she wanted pushed. That should tell you a lot.

[Marshall Bennett]

.... and the crowd goes wild . Batter up !!

[joanied]

She called you 'honey' again because she knew damn well it would push a button she wanted pushed. That should tell you a lot.

Yes it does....and I'll leave it at that.

[PaceAdvantage]

So....let's all put on the gloves :lol: and duke it out.Actually, let's not do that. Let's get things back to a more civilized style of debate. How's that for original?

[sally]

I don't think a horse has to run beyond his 3yo campaign in order to be termed a great champion. You mention Secretariat...he's an obvious one....

Holy Bull only had one complete race as a 4yo, so his entire career essentially was achieved as a 3yo....and I would certainly slap the great champion label on Holy Bull. In fact, I think he was the last colt to race primarily as a 3yo that deserves to wear this label.

Secretariat ran 21 races winning 16 of them-- Holy Bull ran 16 races winning 13 of them... I call that GREAT. Big Brown and for that matter, Smarty Jones and Afleet Alex haven't done that and that's why I hesitate to call any of them GREAT...

[Tom]

The more I think about it, I'm putting an asterisk next to Curlin, too.

[Marshall Bennett]

Asterisk are common place in all sports these days . We'll one day need a book of sports records , another with sport's asterisks . Don't dare combine the two , no one will buy it , it'll weigh a ton and cost a fortune . :D