Dutrow, Asmussen, & Levine

[tribecaagent]

Did you ever get the feeling that someone is "pulling the wool" over your eyes?

After 257 positives, Dutrow gets 15 day suspension???

Asmussen tests positive for Lidocain (a sedative) and guess what? He hires a high-priced, Manhattan based attorney who says...."contamination"!

Levine's barn gets "raided" for EPO. Now, here's where this gets interesting. Accrding to Frank Zanuccki (executive director of the njrc), EPO is UN-detectable on race day. So forget detention barns. Point being: someone knows something. Or else, why test for EPO? So far, partial tests have returned negative but the full results won't be available until next week. It wouldn't suprise me if the Levine people were "tipped off" weeks ago about this upcoming raid.

My point to all of this is: ONLY INVEST IN TURF RACES or ONLY INVEST IN BOUTIQUE MEETS WHEN THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING.

[RichieP]

Did you ever get the feeling that someone is "pulling the wool" over your eyes?

My point to all of this is: ONLY INVEST IN TURF RACES or ONLY INVEST IN BOUTIQUE MEETS WHEN THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING.

Why do you consider turf racing different? Interesting

[startngate]

After 257 positives, Dutrow gets 15 day suspension??? Got any proof of this? According to Steve Crist it's 13.

http://cristblog.drf.com/crist/2008/06/bad-rap-sheet.html

Levine's barn gets "raided" for EPO.Got any proof of this? According to published reports this was nothing more than a random test.
Frank Zanzuccki, the commission’s executive director, said the testing of Levine’s horses was planned about two weeks ago and was performed on a random basis. “We do some testing based on information and intelligence we receive, but this was done as a random sampling,” Zanzuccki said.http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2008/June/26/New-Jersey-officials-do-out-of-competition-testing-on-Levine-barn.aspx

[tribecaagent]

Why do you consider turf racing different? Interesting

Richie,

Heve you ever noticed the win %'s of these "supertrainers" on grass? I'm positive you have.

For some reason, it's nowhere even half their win % on dirt. Why? I couldn't tell you. It's just a fact.

[tribecaagent]

Got any proof of this? According to Steve Crist it's 13.

http://cristblog.drf.com/crist/2008/06/bad-rap-sheet.html

Got any proof of this? According to published reports this was nothing more than a random test.
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2008/June/26/New-Jersey-officials-do-out-of-competition-testing-on-Levine-barn.aspx

Gate,

If you haven't noticed....I was EXAGGERATING as far as the positives.

However, Mr. Zanzuccki said (his words) "we do some testing on infomation and intellingence we recieve, but this was done as a random sampling". In other words, "we recieved a tip". My question is, why EPO? Why not some other drug?
Someone knows something.

[Tom]

Reading the blog, I see 16 of major concern.
That is a huge number, IMHO.

As far as no cheaters on the grass, that is a common belief amoung the railbirds I grew up with. I suppose it could be checked out.......

[tribecaagent]

Reading the blog, I see 16 of major concern.
That is a huge number, IMHO.

As far as no cheaters on the grass, that is a common belief amoung the railbirds I grew up with. I suppose it could be checked out.......

Hi Tom,

I've read your posts and, to me, the majority of em' make sense.

If you just notice a "supertrainer" running a horse on the grass, it's either a prep or a last ditch effort to find a horse's "hole card". Either way, it's not their strength.

[ezpace]

BREEDERS CUP ,we will supeona testing labs for RACETRACKS ON how many positive tests that we're sent to racetracks and nothing was done about it by racing officials.

We'll then determine if class action suit by horseplayers and owners who we're beat by doped horses.

WE = horseplayers who are attorneys ,media ,media camera people, straight
vetenarians..

WE.= = .does not include the fine owner and manager of this forum or any of its other posters..

RACE TRACKS BETTER DO SOMETHING OR OUR GROUP WILL.. PROMISE

ANDYBODY HERE THAT posts copy and send this to all major T bred racetracks.

[plainolebill]

Mullins and Mitchell have very good turf records, Mitchell in particular - he claims horses and wins stakes with them fairly often.

They've been described as supertrainers from time to time.

[tribecaagent]

Mullins and Mitchell have very good turf records, Mitchell in particular - he claims horses and wins stakes with them fairly often.

They've been described as supertrainers from time to time.

I agree with you. I guess Bobby Frankel is in the same group. I stand corrected.

However, when anyone is referring to the above three, their turf records are below par.

[tribecaagent]

BREEDERS CUP ,we will supeona testing labs for RACETRACKS ON how many positive tests that we're sent to racetracks and nothing was done about it by racing officials.

We'll then determine if class action suit by horseplayers and owners who we're beat by doped horses.

WE = horseplayers who are attorneys ,media ,media camera people, straight
vetenarians..

WE.= = .does not include the fine owner and manager of this forum or any of its other posters..

RACE TRACKS BETTER DO SOMETHING OR OUR GROUP WILL.. PROMISE

ANDYBODY HERE THAT posts copy and send this to all major T bred racetracks.

EZ,

That's great. What are you suggesting?

[jotb]

Richie,

Heve you ever noticed the win %'s of these "supertrainers" on grass? I'm positive you have.

For some reason, it's nowhere even half their win % on dirt. Why? I couldn't tell you. It's just a fact.

Hello Richie


I'm not sure what you consider "supertrainers". If you consider "supertrainers" trainers that are constantly under the radar gun when it comes to drugs, then I would have to agree with you totally. Guys like the ones mentioned in the Dutrow article are not as good on the turf as they are on the turf. The reason for this is because there are not as many turf races run. Secondly, I would think turf races are mostly won by the horse that gets the best trip. Many turf horses are unable to overcome rough trips because of traffic problems and much different fractional times and final times. In dirt races if you have a horse with back class you can find easier spots for the horse and times reflect the outcome.

JOE

[startngate]

Gate,

If you haven't noticed....I was EXAGGERATING as far as the positives.

However, Mr. Zanzuccki said (his words) "we do some testing on infomation and intellingence we recieve, but this was done as a random sampling". In other words, "we recieved a tip". My question is, why EPO? Why not some other drug?
Someone knows something.People on this forum and in the mainstream media have been throwing around numbers on Dutrow and others so recklessly that those that don't closely follow the industry don't know what to think. 72 is also an exaggeration, but look how many in the mainstream media have jumped on that number (hello ESPN).

I don't claim to know the real truth either. All I can do is go by what I read, and try to figure it out.

As for Mr. Levine, yep, someone sure knew something. You're obviously right, and the guy you quoted that heads up the NJ Commission must be nuts.

Mr. Zanzucki said (in his words) they did a random test. "It was a action that we deploy as part of our out-of-competition testing program," Zanzuccki said. "Sometimes it is random, sometimes it is based on prior information. In this case, it was random."

http://www.drf.com/news/article/95809.html

NJ has an out-of-competition testing program for EPO. That's what they are testing for. There is no evidence you've presented that it was anything other than being part of the out-of-competition program, and the guy you quoted, said point blank they didn't test him because of "prior information".

Yet you are basically calling the guy a cheater and implying that there really was some inside information that lead to the test. I'm just asking for any proof from you, since published reports are contradicting that.

You said he was "raided" ... according to all published reports, he wasn't. You questioned why they only tested for EPO ... when that's all the NJ program tests for. So which is it?

I'm sure you know by now ... guess what ... Levine's horses were clean for EPO.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/45942.htm

Look, I'm all for hanging the cheats. I favor lifetime bans for certain categories of drugs. I believe the vets should get just as many days as the trainer does for a positive. I also think the daily program should have a complete list of every med a horse is on when it races, and would prefer it if all race day meds were banned.

But I also believe in being fair, which means not hanging someone without evidence. And not blowing things out of proportion. It's going to take calm heads to get the drug situation in racing figured out, not sensationalism.

[tribecaagent]

Gate,

Your email was alerted to my blackberry and I'm now leaving my office for an appointment, but I wanted to write something short and get back with a more in-depth response once I have the time.

Mr. Levine is WINNING at a 50% clip. On top of that, he's winning between 40-45% of his NEW AQUISITIONS.

Do you think this is happening because he changes the bit and floats their teeth? OR maybe it's because the food is just plain tasty?

These numbers are not just above average, they're silly.

[cj's dad]

Richie,

Heve you ever noticed the win %'s of these "supertrainers" on grass? I'm positive you have.

For some reason, it's nowhere even half their win % on dirt. Why? I couldn't tell you. It's just a fact.

And doesn't it seem equally true that the turf gurus don't do as well on the main track?

[PaceAdvantage]

These numbers are not just above average, they're silly.Based on what? Your superior handicapping knowledge that would never dare to think that a 20 race losing streak is right around the corner for your bankroll?

These things happen. People get hot. People go REALLY, REALLY COLD.

Do they raid the guys that go 0-for the entire YEAR? No, they don't. But that kind of streak is equally as silly, in my opinion.

Sure, many times, when a trainer comes out of nowhere and starts popping at 25-35% people are immediately going to think the worst. Many times those thoughts are justified and validated.

It still doesn't mean what you're saying is the truth. Nobody in this world has a lock on why things happen, especially when you are far removed from the actual situation at hand.

[tribecaagent]

People on this forum and in the mainstream media have been throwing around numbers on Dutrow and others so recklessly that those that don't closely follow the industry don't know what to think. 72 is also an exaggeration, but look how many in the mainstream media have jumped on that number (hello ESPN).

I don't claim to know the real truth either. All I can do is go by what I read, and try to figure it out.

As for Mr. Levine, yep, someone sure knew something. You're obviously right, and the guy you quoted that heads up the NJ Commission must be nuts.

Mr. Zanzucki said (in his words) they did a random test. "It was a action that we deploy as part of our out-of-competition testing program," Zanzuccki said. "Sometimes it is random, sometimes it is based on prior information. In this case, it was random."

http://www.drf.com/news/article/95809.html

NJ has an out-of-competition testing program for EPO. That's what they are testing for. There is no evidence you've presented that it was anything other than being part of the out-of-competition program, and the guy you quoted, said point blank they didn't test him because of "prior information".

Yet you are basically calling the guy a cheater and implying that there really was some inside information that lead to the test. I'm just asking for any proof from you, since published reports are contradicting that.

You said he was "raided" ... according to all published reports, he wasn't. You questioned why they only tested for EPO ... when that's all the NJ program tests for. So which is it?

I'm sure you know by now ... guess what ... Levine's horses were clean for EPO.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/article/45942.htm

Look, I'm all for hanging the cheats. I favor lifetime bans for certain categories of drugs. I believe the vets should get just as many days as the trainer does for a positive. I also think the daily program should have a complete list of every med a horse is on when it races, and would prefer it if all race day meds were banned.

But I also believe in being fair, which means not hanging someone without evidence. And not blowing things out of proportion. It's going to take calm heads to get the drug situation in racing figured out, not sensationalism.

Hey Gate,

This was an out-of-competition testing program. That's fine. But why? Why just test for EPO? What about: 1) Morphine, 2) Mepivacaine, 3) TCO2 levels, 4) Oxyglobin, 5)Hemopure, and 6) Isosorbide?

EPO is a class 2 drug which carries a minimum of a 1 year suspension. We all agree Levine is not a fool and that would be foolish on his behalf to give his horses EPO. Some of these other "performance enhancers" do not carry such a harsh penalty.

Do I have proof of any inside information which lead to the test? No. However, when a state vet and a commission official go to any barn, unannounced, and "request" (not demand) blood samples, where I come from that's a "raid".

My opinion is: if any official is going to "demand" blood samples (and make headlines in the process), why not go the extra mile and test for a plethora of illegal drugs? Let's see if a 50% win trainer is really all about tender loving care.

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

My point to all of this is: ONLY INVEST IN TURF RACES or ONLY INVEST IN BOUTIQUE MEETS WHEN THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING.

Dr.SS> ...the whole world was watching The Belmont Stakes. Didn't matter. The majority still got sucked into the over hype of Big Brown.

Horse racing has always had a stitch of a crooked den. History speaks for itself.
Today will be history tomorrow. And history has an ominous way of repeating itself time and again.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[ryesteve]

the whole world was watching The Belmont Stakes. Didn't matter.You're saying that was a fixed race?

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

[QUOTE=tribecaagent]

This was an out-of-competition testing program. That's fine. But why? Why just test for EPO? What about: 1) Morphine


Dr. SS> Any method of morphine application produces a systemic effect. In layman's terms, unless you want to make your horse sleepy, numb and dumb, you really wouldn't wanna give him morphine any time close to before a race.

It may not be in the best interest of a jockey's health status to put him on a horse that has been therapeutically treated with opiates while trying to get said horse to run in a perfect circle at 45 miles per hour.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[tribecaagent]

Based on what? Your superior handicapping knowledge that would never dare to think that a 20 race losing streak is right around the corner for your bankroll?

These things happen. People get hot. People go REALLY, REALLY COLD.

Do they raid the guys that go 0-for the entire YEAR? No, they don't. But that kind of streak is equally as silly, in my opinion.

Sure, many times, when a trainer comes out of nowhere and starts popping at 25-35% people are immediately going to think the worst. Many times those thoughts are justified and validated.

It still doesn't mean what you're saying is the truth. Nobody in this world has a lock on why things happen, especially when you are far removed from the actual situation at hand.

Pace,

I watched EVERY SINGLE race on Aqueduct's inner track this past winter (and even bet a couple). Bruce Levine is NOT a "Johnnie-come-lately" and I'm certainly aware of "the law of averages." In fact, this past winter in my mind I said "this guy can't keep this pace." HE DID. HE NEVER LET UP.

I ask you, if ANY trainer runs 90 horses for the first time (in their barn) and 40 of them win, are they that much sharper than the rest of the community?
I guess an arguement can be made that a certain trainer gets them ready for their first start, and the horse gradually tails off after that initial start, because the horse was so cranked up. They cashed their ticket and that's that.

Bruce's horse's pop and stay there. Consistent.

Pace, EVERY ONE of his horse's ran their eyeballs out, EVERY TIME they stepped onto the racetrack.

Kudos to him. I just don't believe in the whole barn running their guts out every time.

[tribecaagent]

[QUOTE=tribecaagent]

This was an out-of-competition testing program. That's fine. But why? Why just test for EPO? What about: 1) Morphine


Dr. SS> Any method of morphine application produces a systemic effect. In layman's terms, unless you want to make your horse sleepy, numb and dumb, you really wouldn't wanna give him morphine any time close to before a race.

It may not be in the best interest of a jockey's health status to put him on a horse that has been therapeutically treated with opiates while trying to get said horse to run in a perfect circle at 45 miles per hour.

Dr. SwineSmeller

Hey Doctor,

Tell that to Bobby Frankel & Bobby Baffert.

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

You're saying that was a fixed race?

Yeah, I fully believe that the fix was on in that the barns knew Big Brown was not close to being physically fit enough to win the Belmont Stakes.

There were many many dollars made for the Armani suits who play from behind the scenes. There was millions of dollars bet on the Belmont. How many in the Belmont crowd did you hear hollerin', Whoopie!!! About none. So where did those millions of dollars go? The Armani suits, that's where.

And Dorsemeaux made dern sure he didn't disappoint. He11, he just went ahead and pulled up just in case all the horses ahead of him fell down so he didn't accidentally win and risk getting his horse and himself shot with an Al Capone era Tommy gun as they crossed the finish line.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[InsideTheRaces.com]

All the top trainers have their horses on Steroids most use Equipoise or Winstrol it's injected once a month costs about $60 a month. They also use clenbutural which is in a liquid form given orally everyday costs about $125 to $150 a month. These drugs do make a difference in the performance of the horse. The injectable steriods make the horse more aggressive and also allow the horse to rebuild muscle faster and at the same time increases appetite. The clenbutural is also a steroid it is used to open up the air passages of the lungs. The clenbuteral allows the horse to work beyond it's natural capabilities during training (it helps the horse get over training platueas). Clenbuteral also increases the horses body temperature which I think helps to burn more body fat. The so so trainers don't really use these drugs their owners are too cheep to pay for it. One reason they are so so trainers. Even if their owners were willing to pay for it there is no guarantee their horse will get it(the trainer might have the vet give it to his own horse). The top trainers all have a program and all the horses are on it. If you have ever seen a top trainers operation you would see it runs like clock work(a very efficient business operation). The so so trainer's operation is is the exact opposite (can't find exercise riders in the morning, no plan for the day, unorganized, a total cluster f operation). Its like all businesses 10% of businesses make 90% of the total money.
The average trainer can't get many jockeys to even try to win a race on their horse. Why, becuase the trainer can't get jockeys on their horses in the morning so at race time the jockey is on a test ride(would you jump into a Ford Pinto you have never driven and go 90 MPH around a hairpin turn?). Another reason why top trainers win.
This is where the crookery is with the top trainers.
Drug testing is done differently at each track. Each track uses a different test kit. Each track tests for different substances. The trainers know the way around the drug tests. The drugs that are really effecting the outcome of races are cocaine and any of the local anesthetics. They give the cocaine right in the paddock one little dab on the tongue tie. If the race is on time and the horse gets back to the test barn fast enough test comes back all clear. Local anesthetics are given by a subcutaneous injection(Right under the skin) to the problem area usually a ankle or knee in the stall seconds before the horse walks over to the paddock. Again if the race is on time and the horse gets to the test barn fast the test comes back clean. The vets are administering the shots or the trainer(I have never met a trainer that didn't have a needle close by).
I got a little carried away with this post but I could go on and on about what is really happening at the track. If you want to here more let me know.

Just because they are cheating doesn't mean they will win!


John

[Pace Cap'n]

If you want to here more let me know.

By all means, please continue.

[ryesteve]

And Dorsemeaux made dern sure he didn't disappoint. He11, he just went ahead and pulled up just in case all the horses ahead of him fell down so he didn't accidentally win and risk getting his horse and himself shot with an Al Capone era Tommy gun as they crossed the finish line.I can't understand why you keep getting banned from message boards :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

I can't understand why you keep getting banned from message boards :rolleyes:It must be his lovable personality and master of prose!

[PaceAdvantage]

Pace, EVERY ONE of his horse's ran their eyeballs out, EVERY TIME they stepped onto the racetrack.

Kudos to him. I just don't believe in the whole barn running their guts out every time.Your points are well taken. I don't dispute your theory, but I must make sure it isn't labeled as truth without proof. That's all I'm saying.

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

And Dorsemeaux made dern sure he didn't disappoint. He11, he just went ahead and pulled up just in case all the horses ahead of him fell down so he didn't accidentally win and risk getting his horse and himself shot with an Al Capone era Tommy gun as they crossed the finish line.

Dr. SwineSmeller

Dr.SS> Not only that, Kent took out part of the competition leaving the starting gate, what he couldn't accomplish there he went ahead and took out a couple of more of them in the first turn.

Anyone who can't see a "FIX" is blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.

Dooftrow says, "I can't find that there is anything wrong with Big Brown (post race)...Dorsemeaux says, "I felt something was wrong with my horse".
So who's BS'n here?

If you are a bank robber and you get info that at 8 a.m. there will be $100,000 in the vault, and at 2 a.m. there will be $1,000,000 in the vault, what time are you gonna hold up the bank? No brainer. Same with the sum of cash bet on the Belmont Stakes as compared to the 2nd race at Mountaineer. (Though 10% of the wise laymen saw through the smokescreen and layed off of a Big Brown bet, 90% bit the bullet).

I'm ever amazed how people wear perma-blinders and have no concept of how to further assess a given circumstance. Really.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[DeanT]

Dooftrow says, "I can't find that there is anything wrong with Big Brown (post race)...Dorsemeaux says, "I felt something was wrong with my horse".
So who's BS'n here?



If the last work for BB is any indication, Kent should hang up the silks and become a trainer.

[ryesteve]

I'm ever amazed how people wear perma-blinders and have no concept of how to further assess a given circumstance. Really.
My assessment of this circumstance is that you've grown really bored and have decided to kick it into full-blown troll mode to see what sort of reaction you can get by posting some really stupid shit. Sorry, I'm not playing.

[InsideTheRaces.com]

These top trainers also train their horses with buzzers(electric shocking device). These devices are banned from the track even during training hours but are used everyday. What the jockeys do is teach the horse a cue. A example would be touch the horse on the neck in a certain way if the horse doesn't pickup speed they get the shock. Eventually the horse learns the cue and understands that if they don't run faster they going to get shocked. These jockeys may or may not carry the buzzer during the race depending on how well the horse responds to the cue in training.

I could go on and on

John

[Shenanigans]

These top trainers also train their horses with buzzers(electric shocking device). These devices are banned from the track even during training hours but are used everyday. What the jockeys do is teach the horse a cue. A example would be touch the horse on the neck in a certain way if the horse doesn't pickup speed they get the shock. Eventually the horse learns the cue and understands that if they don't run faster they going to get shocked. These jockeys may or may not carry the buzzer during the race depending on how well the horse responds to the cue in training.

I could go on and on

John

You worked for any of these top trainers?

[InsideTheRaces.com]

You worked for any of these top trainers?

Never worked for a so called super trainer but have spent more time working on the backside then I would have liked to. I know the exercise riders the jockeys the assistant trainers. This is pretty common knowledge stuff at any track if you dig around, ask questions and pay attention. I just don't think the betting public has any idea whats really going on.

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

My assessment of this circumstance is that you've grown really bored and have decided to kick it into full-blown troll mode to see what sort of reaction you can get by posting some really stupid shit. Sorry, I'm not playing.

Dr. SS> See what I mean. Always boxed in. No concept of a world beyond what one sees and hears.

If you don't think that high bred horse racing favors the insiders, then you haven't been hanging around earth very long Steve. Seriously.

It is up to the bettor to cipher through the indeed legal, anything goes trash talking game so not to be sucked in, ala Big Brown. It's not illegal to be the fooler or the foolee in any game of chance, especially horse racing.

Don't be mad at me if you lost your money betting on the Dutrow commanded, Dorsemeaux drunkly driven, Beyer commended anti-team.

It's so simple...Trainer blames the jockey, and the jockey blames the horse, and the F'n horse can't talk. The end. Eat your egg. The tenth race is 20 minutes to post.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

You worked for any of these top trainers?

Dr. SS> Another blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.

It's about as easy to get a shocker on the backstretch as it is to get a light for your cigarette.

I was at Oaklawn for the Arkansas Derby (like in 1997 right off the top of my head), the Derby winner (at about 33 to 1) was disqualified because the jock used a shocker, proven, on camera, found, busted, in every newspaper in the world pretty much. The public's gullible bite comes when the industry downplays such incidents as extremely isolated and the majority of delberts just agree. I say BS. The only thing extremely isolated about it is getting caught.

The Arkansas Derby SETUP culprits only got caught because the dum@ss jock accidentally dropped his shocker in mid-stretch. It was plain as day and couldn't be denied. Had the doofus jock held on to his shocker, the national simulcast big money setup, and subsequent hit, was made, and just like it still happens.

That race was for a $750,000.00 purse, it was not the second race at Mountaineer.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[ddog]

Never worked for a so called super trainer but have spent more time working on the backside then I would have liked to. I know the exercise riders the jockeys the assistant trainers. This is pretty common knowledge stuff at any track if you dig around, ask questions and pay attention. I just don't think the betting public has any idea whats really going on.


Sometimes how people can play at this game and then question this type of post.... well, let's just call me STUNNED.

I wouldn't believe it if it wasn't on the board.

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

[QUOTE=Dr.SwineSmeller]Dr. SS> Had the doofus jock held on to his shocker, the national simulcast big money setup, and subsequent hit, was made, and just like it still happens.

As I further recalled this incident in my brain, i remembered that actually the winner was not DQ'd until the day after the race (Ar Derby), and while the owner was not awarded purse money, NO BETS WERE REFUNDED> So the big money hit was indeed made. The Armani suits weren't about to get screwed.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[JBmadera]

Bottom line: people CHEAT. It doesn’t matter if it is horse racing, tennis, track and field, cycling, NBA refs, 1900’s baseball teams or corporate America (can you say Enron, Worldcom, CA, etc, etc, etc). Now does that mean I won’t invest in the stock market, watch the Olympics, bet on a basketball game, watch the Tour de France or wager on horses – NO. But I won’t turn a blind eye to the warts. Horse racing needs to go through a cleansing process just like casino gaming had to once the mob was, mostly, moved out of Vegas. We bettors just need to be careful and remember for every Ron Hansen and Richard Pfau there are dozens of Alex Solis’ and Katie Crews’ (can’t help it she brought home a bomb for me at CNL the other day....:jump: )

JB

[ddog]

On a slight tangent, but i will not be watching the Olympics.

Not from there, no way.

[startngate]

Hey Gate,

This was an out-of-competition testing program. That's fine. But why? Why just test for EPO? What about: 1) Morphine, 2) Mepivacaine, 3) TCO2 levels, 4) Oxyglobin, 5)Hemopure, and 6) Isosorbide?

EPO is a class 2 drug which carries a minimum of a 1 year suspension. We all agree Levine is not a fool and that would be foolish on his behalf to give his horses EPO. Some of these other "performance enhancers" do not carry such a harsh penalty.

Do I have proof of any inside information which lead to the test? No. However, when a state vet and a commission official go to any barn, unannounced, and "request" (not demand) blood samples, where I come from that's a "raid".

My opinion is: if any official is going to "demand" blood samples (and make headlines in the process), why not go the extra mile and test for a plethora of illegal drugs? Let's see if a 50% win trainer is really all about tender loving care.Although I'm not a chemist, I believe all of the other drugs you mention would be found during an in-competition test. Sure they could test for them anyway, but the reason they are testing for EPO out-of-competition is because (according to reports I've read) it's not detectible on race day. Also, unless there are any bans on using those drugs out-of-competition, there wouldn't be any violations, and therefore I'm guessing there would be a legal issue with doing the test.

When State vets and Commission personnel "raid" a barn, there is no "requesting". They lock down the barn (usually with State Police present) and turn it basically into a crime scene. They shake down everything and every one.

The published report of what went down indicated that the Commission personnel asked for permission, and the Assistant Trainer called Levine to get the OK before it happened. Where I come from, that's not a "raid".

[JBmadera]

good luck testing for EPO:


http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/26/sports/26doping.php

[ryesteve]

If you don't think that high bred horse racing favors the insiders, then you haven't been hanging around earth very long Steve. Seriously..Only a trolling jackass would equate "No one's going to stiff their horse with a $50million payday on the line" with "insiders don't have an edge"

[Shenanigans]

Never worked for a so called super trainer but have spent more time working on the backside then I would have liked to. I know the exercise riders the jockeys the assistant trainers. This is pretty common knowledge stuff at any track if you dig around, ask questions and pay attention. I just don't think the betting public has any idea whats really going on.

I have spent many years on the backside working myself. Your first post regarding steroids and clenbuterol have some valid points and truths, but when you claim cocaine is put on the tongue tie in the paddock I have to question that. I have applied hundreds of tongue ties on horses (without cocaine), and your theory just doesn't hold up with me. Most horses get their tongue ties put on at the barn by the groom or assistant trainer. Sure, cocaine could be applied then, but please explain to me how do you keep that from the groom? Do you seriously think the trainer is going to allow the groom to be "in know"?? There would be a lot more trainers caught if that was the case.
Also, in your theory, you claim this is all done in the paddock. How?? With all eyes watching, you say a trainer is going to open the horses' mouth and dab cocaine onto it's tongue??? What??? Do you know how many racing officials are watching at any given moment? I have met some stupid trainers in my time at the track, but I don't think any of them would be that stupid. What about the groom and hotwalker standing there as a witness?? I think I would be questioning my trainer if I was holding a horse and he dabs white powder on the horses' tongue. Your theory just doesn't hold up.
Also, I am no expert on cocaine, but I would guess it would take more than just a "dab" of coke on the tongue of a 1,200 lb animal to get it lit up enough to do anything. With that said, I am not denying cocaine is used by trainers, but the way you claim it is applied just doesn't hold up with me. Your reasoning is that the coke will pass through the system before it can be detected by the blood samples and urine. Here's a thought on how cocaine doesn't get detected: other drugs (some that aren't tested for) mask the cocaine.;)
Now, on your theory that every top trainer uses a machine in training their horses is really out there. I have galloped horses for many years, and never once had been asked to plug a horse in. First off, if that was the case, there would be horses every morning, bolting or jumping the inside rail. Not every horse accepts being plugged in. There would be obvious signs on the track in the AM if "every trainer" did that.
Secondly, if every horse is getting plugged in, please explain to me who is doing it??? If a trainer asked me to gallop his horse with a machine, do you seriously think I would do it?? Anyone caught with a machine on the backside gets ruled off. I don't know too many exercise riders that want risk that. Sure, there are some out there that do it, but with your theory, every exercise rider would have to be "packing". A lot of these top trainers use women exercise riders. You are less likely to get a woman to use a machine than a man.;) Thirdly, using a machine on a horse is an art. It is not easy (from what I was told). There is a certain way to use it to get the most out of it. With your theory, every exercise rider would have to master handling a machine. Not buying it.
I would be the first to tell you about all the shady things that happen at the track, but your theories of cocaine and battery usage are a little off the wall. Being discreet is number one when trainers are cheating. What you describe is far from discreet.

[Shenanigans]

Dr. SS> Another blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.

It's about as easy to get a shocker on the backstretch as it is to get a light for your cigarette.

I was at Oaklawn for the Arkansas Derby (like in 1997 right off the top of my head), the Derby winner (at about 33 to 1) was disqualified because the jock used a shocker, proven, on camera, found, busted, in every newspaper in the world pretty much. The public's gullible bite comes when the industry downplays such incidents as extremely isolated and the majority of delberts just agree. I say BS. The only thing extremely isolated about it is getting caught.

The Arkansas Derby SETUP culprits only got caught because the dum@ss jock accidentally dropped his shocker in mid-stretch. It was plain as day and couldn't be denied. Had the doofus jock held on to his shocker, the national simulcast big money setup, and subsequent hit, was made, and just like it still happens.

That race was for a $750,000.00 purse, it was not the second race at Mountaineer.

Dr. SwineSmeller

I was at that AR Derby when that happened also. Billy Patton was the "dumbazz" jockey. I don't seem to remember the trainer being a "top" trainer.
Realize, I am not denying machines aren't used, but to put out there that every top trainer trains their horses with them is just ridiculous.

[sally]

I'm just curious, do you bet?

[InsideTheRaces.com]

I have spent many years on the backside working myself. Your first post regarding steroids and clenbuterol have some valid points and truths, but when you claim cocaine is put on the tongue tie in the paddock I have to question that. I have applied hundreds of tongue ties on horses (without cocaine), and your theory just doesn't hold up with me. Most horses get their tongue ties put on at the barn by the groom or assistant trainer. Sure, cocaine could be applied then, but please explain to me how do you keep that from the groom? Do you seriously think the trainer is going to allow the groom to be "in know"?? There would be a lot more trainers caught if that was the case.
Also, in your theory, you claim this is all done in the paddock. How?? With all eyes watching, you say a trainer is going to open the horses' mouth and dab cocaine onto it's tongue??? What??? Do you know how many racing officials are watching at any given moment? I have met some stupid trainers in my time at the track, but I don't think any of them would be that stupid. What about the groom and hotwalker standing there as a witness?? I think I would be questioning my trainer if I was holding a horse and he dabs white powder on the horses' tongue. Your theory just doesn't hold up.

I never said everyone was cheating all the time
Most tongue ties are applied in the stall not the paddock so what.
The tongue tie is one way another is with a dose syringe I am sure you have seen those in the paddock before.


[/QUOTE] Also, I am no expert on cocaine, but I would guess it would take more than just a "dab" of coke on the tongue of a 1,200 lb animal to get it lit up enough to do anything. With that said, I am not denying cocaine is used by trainers, but the way you claim it is applied just doesn't hold up with me. Your reasoning is that the coke will pass through the system before it can be detected by the blood samples and urine. Here's a thought on how cocaine doesn't get detected: other drugs (some that aren't tested for) mask the cocaine.;)[/QUOTE]

Yeah your right your not a expert on cocaine or horses
1/2 to 1 gram of cocaine is a dab
Not my reasoning but the fact is the you need to administer these drugs as close to race time as possible so they can't be detected in blood or urine. It takes 3 to 5 days for cocaine to pass ones system. It takes 1 to 2 hours after taking cocaine before the tests can detect it.


[/QUOTE] Now, on your theory that every top trainer uses a machine in training their horses is really out there. I have galloped horses for many years, and never once had been asked to plug a horse in. First off, if that was the case, there would be horses every morning, bolting or jumping the inside rail. Not every horse accepts being plugged in. There would be obvious signs on the track in the AM if "every trainer" did that.
Secondly, if every horse is getting plugged in, please explain to me who is doing it??? If a trainer asked me to gallop his horse with a machine, do you seriously think I would do it?? Anyone caught with a machine on the backside gets ruled off. I don't know too many exercise riders that want risk that. Sure, there are some out there that do it, but with your theory, every exercise rider would have to be "packing". A lot of these top trainers use women exercise riders. You are less likely to get a woman to use a machine than a man.;) Thirdly, using a machine on a horse is an art. It is not easy (from what I was told). There is a certain way to use it to get the most out of it. With your theory, every exercise rider would have to master handling a machine. Not buying it.[/QUOTE]

I never said every top Trainer used a buzzer I said Top trainers use buzzers.
1st off why would someone ask you a exercise rider to teach the horse the cues with a buzzer. Is the exercise rider on the horse come race day?
Theres no art to using a buzzer some horses respond some will run slower or stop.


[/QUOTE] I would be the first to tell you about all the shady things that happen at the track, but your theories of cocaine and battery usage are a little off the wall. Being discreet is number one when trainers are cheating. What you describe is far from discreet.[/QUOTE]

The usage of buzzers and cocaine in the way I have described are fact. I think you are a little off the wall if you don't believe it is happening in the way I describe.
Have trainers been found with positives for cocaine and local anesthetics? Yes
Have jokeys been caught with buzzers?
Yes

If you did or do work at the track you should make a Blinker change Take Off the Blinkers

Wake up dude
Some people don't investigate whats going on around them or don't want to know. Maybe you are one of those people.

[GlenninOhio]

If you did or do work at the track you should make a Blinker change Take Off the Blinkers

Wake up dude
Some people don't investigate whats going on around them or don't want to know. Maybe you are one of those people.

First off, she's a dudette.

And second, you might want to go back and read a bunch of her posts before you go disrespecting her. She clearly knows this business from the inside out and has paid her dues many times over. And she's one of the sharpest on this board, and that's saying a heck of a lot.

(And no, I'm not in love with her. At least I don't think so.) :blush:

[InsideTheRaces.com]

First off, she's a dudette.

And second, you might want to go back and read a bunch of her posts before you go disrespecting her. She clearly knows this business from the inside out and has paid her dues many times over. And she's one of the sharpest on this board, and that's saying a heck of a lot.

(And no, I'm not in love with her. At least I don't think so.) :blush:

I have read the posts.
I don't think I disrepected her in any way.
I guess it's my fault she hasn't seen or investigated enough to find out what is really going on.

Some people don't want to learn whats going on. Like the parent with a child that has a drug problem. People from the outside know the kid is on drugs the signs are all around the parent but they keep saying not my kid.

[Marlin]

Some people don't want to learn whats going on. Like the parent with a child that has a drug problem. People from the outside know the kid is on drugs the signs are all around the parent but they keep saying not my kid.And some people read to much into what is going on. Kind of like parents who think their kid is on drugs but he really is just sneaking out and slacking off because he has his first girl.

[InsideTheRaces.com]

And some people read to much into what is going on. Kind of like parents who think their kid is on drugs but he really is just sneaking out and slacking off because he has his first girl.

Ok your right on that point

Just becuase a exercise rider doesn't think it's happening doesn't mean it isn't.

These trainers do have historys of positive tests
Jockeys do get caught with buzzers (machine on the backside)

I was simply explaining a few of the methods they use to cheat

Just becuase they cheat doesn't insure a win

[Shenanigans]

I never said everyone was cheating all the time
Most tongue ties are applied in the stall not the paddock so what.
The tongue tie is one way another is with a dose syringe I am sure you have seen those in the paddock before.


Yeah your right your not a expert on cocaine or horses
1/2 to 1 gram of cocaine is a dab
Not my reasoning but the fact is the you need to administer these drugs as close to race time as possible so they can't be detected in blood or urine. It takes 3 to 5 days for cocaine to pass ones system. It takes 1 to 2 hours after taking cocaine before the tests can detect it.



I never said every top Trainer used a buzzer I said Top trainers use buzzers.
1st off why would someone ask you a exercise rider to teach the horse the cues with a buzzer. Is the exercise rider on the horse come race day?
Theres no art to using a buzzer some horses respond some will run slower or stop.


The usage of buzzers and cocaine in the way I have described are fact. I think you are a little off the wall if you don't believe it is happening in the way I describe.
Have trainers been found with positives for cocaine and local anesthetics? Yes
Have jokeys been caught with buzzers?
Yes

If you did or do work at the track you should make a Blinker change Take Off the Blinkers

Wake up dude
Some people don't investigate whats going on around them or don't want to know. Maybe you are one of those people.

You need to re-read my post. I gave very good reasons why your theories wouldn't hold up. I have never seen a syringe in the paddock. A syringe in the hands of a trainer or any backside employee is pretty much not allowed. If you are meaning the metal "plungers" that are used to rinse a horses mouth out before a race, still, I have never seen that in the paddock. Those are used back at the barn. Any idiot that carries those over to the paddock is just that - an idiot. That stuff stays in the barn.
I never said cocaine is not used by some trainers. I only dispute your theory on how it is administered. There are many other ways to get it done and not get caught. Blatantly administering in the paddock is not one of them. It looks like you are the one that needs to do a little more "investigating". Like I stated, there are other meds that do the masking.
Sure, it is up to the jockey to "test" a horse in the AM to see what it's response would be to a machine. But with your theory, every horse gets tested. If that is the case, more exercise riders would be packing. Exercise riders work horses also. I have worked my share of them. Also, like I stated, if your theory was correct, there would be more AM mishaps of horses bolting and taking the inside rail. Not every horse accepts the machine.
You seem to think I should take the blinkers off. You really need to read some of my posts. I am the last one to be in denial of what is really happening on the backside. Maybe in your "investigating" you should seek out more knowledgeable people instead of the crack-head grooms and meth-head hotwalkers that like to dish out the BS to people like you, because that's where it sounds like you are getting your "theories". Like I stated - discreet is the key in all this cheating. What you described isn't discreet.

[Shenanigans]

First off, she's a dudette.

And second, you might want to go back and read a bunch of her posts before you go disrespecting her. She clearly knows this business from the inside out and has paid her dues many times over. And she's one of the sharpest on this board, and that's saying a heck of a lot.

(And no, I'm not in love with her. At least I don't think so.) :blush:

Thank you for the compliment. That was sweet.:)

[InsideTheRaces.com]

You need to re-read my post. I gave very good reasons why your theories wouldn't hold up. I have never seen a syringe in the paddock. A syringe in the hands of a trainer or any backside employee is pretty much not allowed. If you are meaning the metal "plungers" that are used to rinse a horses mouth out before a race, still, I have never seen that in the paddock. Those are used back at the barn. Any idiot that carries those over to the paddock is just that - an idiot. That stuff stays in the barn.
I never said cocaine is not used by some trainers. I only dispute your theory on how it is administered. There are many other ways to get it done and not get caught. Blatantly administering in the paddock is not one of them. It looks like you are the one that needs to do a little more "investigating". Like I stated, there are other meds that do the masking.
Sure, it is up to the jockey to "test" a horse in the AM to see what it's response would be to a machine. But with your theory, every horse gets tested. If that is the case, more exercise riders would be packing. Exercise riders work horses also. I have worked my share of them. Also, like I stated, if your theory was correct, there would be more AM mishaps of horses bolting and taking the inside rail. Not every horse accepts the machine.
You seem to think I should take the blinkers off. You really need to read some of my posts. I am the last one to be in denial of what is really happening on the backside. Maybe in your "investigating" you should seek out more knowledgeable people instead of the crack-head grooms and meth-head hotwalkers that like to dish out the BS to people like you, because that's where it sounds like you are getting your "theories". Like I stated - discreet is the key in all this cheating. What you described isn't discreet.

Never seen a dose syringe in the paddock? You haven't seen many races then. They use them to squirt water in the horses mouth in the paddock or right before going in the paddock.

You caught me all my info is from crack head hot walkers and grooms.

You must of worked at a white trash track in the midwest

All the grooms and hot walkers on the mid atlantic circuit for the most part are hispanic and are not crack heads or meth heads they take pride in their jobs and I don't speak spanish.

Oh yeah trainers don't have needles close by lol

[Shenanigans]

Never seen a dose syringe in the paddock? You haven't seen many races then. They use them to squirt water in the horses mouth in the paddock or right before going in the paddock.

You caught me all my info is from crack head hot walkers and grooms.

You must of worked at a white trash track in the midwest

All the grooms and hot walkers on the mid atlantic circuit for the most part are hispanic and are not crack heads or meth heads they take pride in their jobs and I don't speak spanish.

Oh yeah trainers don't have needles close by lol

Re-read my post. I already explained what the metal syringes are used for and when. The less equipment taken to the paddock the less equipment lost. Metal syringes are not a common piece of equipment that is used in the paddock, it's used back at the barn.
I have worked at numerous tracks around the country. Perhaps your "theories" only exist in the mid-atlantic tracks.:D
There are hispanic grooms and hotwalkers all over the country at any given track. The majority of them are there to collect a pay check and have a free place to live and nothing more. You are a lucky person to know so many hispanic grooms and hotwalkers that "take pride in their jobs".:D I can't even begin to detail all of the poor horsemanship these hispanics "take pride" in. They learn basic care of the horse and very few are interested in learning on how to really "rub" a horse. Legs are of no importance to them as is the same with the feet. Two things that help a horse run. I found leg and feet problems in numerous horses I groomed that had been previously groom by your beloved hispanics. These people obviously have you fooled. Yes, they always look extremely busy when the boss man is around or when other eyes are on them. On the contrary, they are the laziest, corner-cutting people I have ever had the chance to work with. IMO, they are an addition to the problems and poor state of racing. All of my grooming knowledge came from a black or white groom. The only thing a hispanic groom has me taught was what not to do. Perhaps you are the one that needs to take off the blinkers. It looks like these people have you fooled.
Oh, and of course trainers have needles "close by". It's call "the vet". ;)

[InsideTheRaces.com]

Re-read my post. I already explained what the metal syringes are used for and when. The less equipment taken to the paddock the less equipment lost. Metal syringes are not a common piece of equipment that is used in the paddock, it's used back at the barn.
I have worked at numerous tracks around the country. Perhaps your "theories" only exist in the mid-atlantic tracks.:D
There are hispanic grooms and hotwalkers all over the country at any given track. The majority of them are there to collect a pay check and have a free place to live and nothing more. You are a lucky person to know so many hispanic grooms and hotwalkers that "take pride in their jobs".:D I can't even begin to detail all of the poor horsemanship these hispanics "take pride" in. They learn basic care of the horse and very few are interested in learning on how to really "rub" a horse. Legs are of no importance to them as is the same with the feet. Two things that help a horse run. I found leg and feet problems in numerous horses I groomed that had been previously groom by your beloved hispanics. These people obviously have you fooled. Yes, they always look extremely busy when the boss man is around or when other eyes are on them. On the contrary, they are the laziest, corner-cutting people I have ever had the chance to work with. IMO, they are an addition to the problems and poor state of racing. All of my grooming knowledge came from a black or white groom. The only thing a hispanic groom has me taught was what not to do. Perhaps you are the one that needs to take off the blinkers. It looks like these people have you fooled.
Oh, and of course trainers have needles "close by". It's call "the vet". ;)

Whatever lady

Like I thought your from some small purse circuit in the midwest.

I wish someone would chime in here ands say they see the dose syringe in the paddock all the time on TVG or HRTV and set this women straight.

Nobody has me fooled. You are fooling yourself. Your the best horsewoman that ever lived and you correct everyones mistakes becuase you know everything.

Please don't respond to this I am tired of trying to show you how wrong you are. It's hard to educate people who don't want to learn



If anyone else cares to learn let me know

[InsideTheRaces.com]

You need to re-read my post. I gave very good reasons why your theories wouldn't hold up. I have never seen a syringe in the paddock. A syringe in the hands of a trainer or any backside employee is pretty much not allowed. If you are meaning the metal "plungers" that are used to rinse a horses mouth out before a race, still, I have never seen that in the paddock. Those are used back at the barn. Any idiot that carries those over to the paddock is just that - an idiot. That stuff stays in the barn.
I never said cocaine is not used by some trainers. I only dispute your theory on how it is administered. There are many other ways to get it done and not get caught. Blatantly administering in the paddock is not one of them. It looks like you are the one that needs to do a little more "investigating". Like I stated, there are other meds that do the masking.
Sure, it is up to the jockey to "test" a horse in the AM to see what it's response would be to a machine. But with your theory, every horse gets tested. If that is the case, more exercise riders would be packing. Exercise riders work horses also. I have worked my share of them. Also, like I stated, if your theory was correct, there would be more AM mishaps of horses bolting and taking the inside rail. Not every horse accepts the machine.
You seem to think I should take the blinkers off. You really need to read some of my posts. I am the last one to be in denial of what is really happening on the backside. Maybe in your "investigating" you should seek out more knowledgeable people instead of the crack-head grooms and meth-head hotwalkers that like to dish out the BS to people like you, because that's where it sounds like you are getting your "theories". Like I stated - discreet is the key in all this cheating. What you described isn't discreet.

One more thing.
The trainers already have the needles they don't need the vet. LOL

[toetoe]

I'm glad they received some intelligence, belated as it must be. They must have at least a thimbleful by now.

[Shenanigans]

Whatever lady

Like I thought your from some small purse circuit in the midwest.

I wish someone would chime in here ands say they see the dose syringe in the paddock all the time on TVG or HRTV and set this women straight.

Nobody has me fooled. You are fooling yourself. Your the best horsewoman that ever lived and you correct everyones mistakes becuase you know everything.

Please don't respond to this I am tired of trying to show you how wrong you are. It's hard to educate people who don't want to learn



If anyone else cares to learn let me know

I am only interested in learning from people that know what the hell they are talking about - you aren't one of them.

[Shenanigans]

One more thing.
The trainers already have the needles they don't need the vet. LOL

Here's a clue: Vets are the only people allowed to have needles on the backside. Sure there's some trainers stupid enough to have them in the barn, but why should they risk getting caught with them when the vet does all the dirty work anyhow?

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

I was at that AR Derby when that happened also. Billy Patton was the "dumbazz" jockey. I don't seem to remember the trainer being a "top" trainer.
Realize, I am not denying machines aren't used, but to put out there that every top trainer trains their horses with them is just ridiculous.

Dr.SS> Good call Shenanigans. Billy Patton!

I didn't say everyone uses them, not even close. I can't state the frequency because I really don't have a clue. But if someones wants to, they can get one real easy. Heck, you can make one out of some tape and a 9 volt transistor battery in about a minute.

And he wasn't a top trainer. In fact, as I recall, the horse was a late shipper to Oaklawn specifically for the Arkansas Derby, from a minor track out west.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

Found a related article of the Arkansas Derby scam...

Horse Racing -- Valhol's Arkansas Derby Win Investigated
AP: New York Daily News
LITTLE ROCK - Oaklawn Park asked state racing authorities to investigate whether jockey Billy Patin used an electrical device to make his horse run faster when it won the Arkansas Derby.

Valhol had not won in two outings before last Saturday's $500,000 Arkansas Derby and was a 30-1 shot when the horses left the gate. He paid $62.80 for the win.

Oaklawn president Charles J. Cella said an employee found a device on the track. He did not say how the device had been linked to Patin. He asked the state Racing Commission to investigate......

The commission voted unanimously to order the track to suspend distribution of the purse to the owner and rider and have race stewards investigate.

"I swear to God I didn't burn that horse," Patin said. "I don't know nothing about that."

(Dallas Keen, an Oaklawn regular, was the trainer).

Rest of article here:

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990416&slug=2955397

Dr. SwineSmeller

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

I'm just curious, do you bet?

I bet about ten or twelve races a year Sally. When I do bet a horse, I usually bet "my whole bankroll" so to speak, (500.00 - 1000.00). And most of my wagers are made on high end stakes or handicap races. I usually play my pick to win and place on most all bets.

The last bet I made was $300.00 to Win & Place on Big Brown in the Kentucky Derby. (He was a bear coming off the Florida Derby, the film didn't lie).

My only upcoming wager that is set in stone at the moment, is the next time Casino Drive goes to post. (No matter the competition, even Curlin).

Dr. SwineSmeller

[InsideTheRaces.com]

Here's a clue: Vets are the only people allowed to have needles on the backside. Sure there's some trainers stupid enough to have them in the barn, but why should they risk getting caught with them when the vet does all the dirty work anyhow?

Why would a vet risk getting caught administering a $100 banned race day drug?
Whats the vet get out of it?

[Shenanigans]

Why would a vet risk getting caught administering a $100 banned race day drug?
Whats the vet get out of it?

Never said the vet is carrying the coke, but why would a trainer risk getting caught with keeping a needle and syringe in his barn when he can get one from a vet and promptly dispose of it? Use your brain.

[InsideTheRaces.com]

Here's a clue: Vets are the only people allowed to have needles on the backside. Sure there's some trainers stupid enough to have them in the barn, but why should they risk getting caught with them when the vet does all the dirty work anyhow?

But I thought the vets were doing all the dirty work

[Shenanigans]

But I thought the vets were doing all the dirty work

Get your head out of the sand.

[PaceAdvantage]

What's that grinding to a halt sound? Oh yeah, that's right, it's the sound of this thread as these two fall further and further in love...

[Shenanigans]

What's that grinding to a halt sound? Oh yeah, that's right, it's the sound of this thread as these two fall further and further in love...

Pacey, you know you are the only one I am in love with on this forum.....:kiss:

[PaceAdvantage]

It's good to know at least one person around here is....:lol:

[Niko]

One more thing.
The trainers already have the needles they don't need the vet. LOL

Who was the trainer that told the story of trying to peak into the stall of Jeff Mullins horse and Mullins squirted him with a syringe of water.....the trainer got a laugh out of it and I did too--kind of. I doubt it was the only syringe Mullins had lying around.

So Inside; what would be your take on Wayne Catalano's horses? Fires has to put a pretty good hold on a few in the beginning of the race.

[George Sands]

Who was the trainer that told the story of trying to peak into the stall of Jeff Mullins horse and Mullins squirted him with a syringe of water....

John Sadler.

[Shenanigans]

Who was the trainer that told the story of trying to peak into the stall of Jeff Mullins horse and Mullins squirted him with a syringe of water.....the trainer got a laugh out of it and I did too--kind of. I doubt it was the only syringe Mullins had lying around.

So Inside; what would be your take on Wayne Catalano's horses? Fires has to put a pretty good hold on a few in the beginning of the race.

He was talking about the metal syringe that is used to rinse a horses mouth out - not the plastic variety that acquires a needles at the end of it.;) You can soak a person with those metal syringes.:p

[onefast99]

I just cant accept Devil House winning the Lighthouse at MP by 10, and doing it naturally! If indeed Mr levine is playing with a chemist to get his horses to run better shame on him. I am sure the NJRC will be watching him real close the rest of the way. As far as winning with horses on the drop-downs, thats something Breen did to win two titles at MP.

[Mineshaft]

Whatever lady

Like I thought your from some small purse circuit in the midwest.

I wish someone would chime in here ands say they see the dose syringe in the paddock all the time on TVG or HRTV and set this women straight.

Nobody has me fooled. You are fooling yourself. Your the best horsewoman that ever lived and you correct everyones mistakes becuase you know everything.

Please don't respond to this I am tired of trying to show you how wrong you are. It's hard to educate people who don't want to learn



If anyone else cares to learn let me know







I will chime in. Batteries are at every track in America. Exercise jocks carry it with them every morning. I know jocks that carry it damn near every race. I had one jock give it to the groom in the winners circle. So yes they are out there.

As far as the cocaine goes i have never seen it applied in the paddock. But im willing to bet my last dollar its applied right before they walk them to the paddock.

[Mineshaft]

One more thing.
The trainers already have the needles they don't need the vet. LOL






Now that is so true. Trainers have to be be vets also.

[Mineshaft]

I have spent many years on the backside working myself. Your first post regarding steroids and clenbuterol have some valid points and truths, but when you claim cocaine is put on the tongue tie in the paddock I have to question that. I have applied hundreds of tongue ties on horses (without cocaine), and your theory just doesn't hold up with me. Most horses get their tongue ties put on at the barn by the groom or assistant trainer. Sure, cocaine could be applied then, but please explain to me how do you keep that from the groom? Do you seriously think the trainer is going to allow the groom to be "in know"?? There would be a lot more trainers caught if that was the case.
Also, in your theory, you claim this is all done in the paddock. How?? With all eyes watching, you say a trainer is going to open the horses' mouth and dab cocaine onto it's tongue??? What??? Do you know how many racing officials are watching at any given moment? I have met some stupid trainers in my time at the track, but I don't think any of them would be that stupid. What about the groom and hotwalker standing there as a witness?? I think I would be questioning my trainer if I was holding a horse and he dabs white powder on the horses' tongue. Your theory just doesn't hold up.
Also, I am no expert on cocaine, but I would guess it would take more than just a "dab" of coke on the tongue of a 1,200 lb animal to get it lit up enough to do anything. With that said, I am not denying cocaine is used by trainers, but the way you claim it is applied just doesn't hold up with me. Your reasoning is that the coke will pass through the system before it can be detected by the blood samples and urine. Here's a thought on how cocaine doesn't get detected: other drugs (some that aren't tested for) mask the cocaine.;)
Now, on your theory that every top trainer uses a machine in training their horses is really out there. I have galloped horses for many years, and never once had been asked to plug a horse in. First off, if that was the case, there would be horses every morning, bolting or jumping the inside rail. Not every horse accepts being plugged in. There would be obvious signs on the track in the AM if "every trainer" did that.
Secondly, if every horse is getting plugged in, please explain to me who is doing it??? If a trainer asked me to gallop his horse with a machine, do you seriously think I would do it?? Anyone caught with a machine on the backside gets ruled off. I don't know too many exercise riders that want risk that. Sure, there are some out there that do it, but with your theory, every exercise rider would have to be "packing". A lot of these top trainers use women exercise riders. You are less likely to get a woman to use a machine than a man.;) Thirdly, using a machine on a horse is an art. It is not easy (from what I was told). There is a certain way to use it to get the most out of it. With your theory, every exercise rider would have to master handling a machine. Not buying it.
I would be the first to tell you about all the shady things that happen at the track, but your theories of cocaine and battery usage are a little off the wall. Being discreet is number one when trainers are cheating. What you describe is far from discreet.





You better get your head out the sand if you dont think trainers use batteries in the morning and in the afternoon.

[The Judge]

the board back in 2003, this was the biggest race in the United States the 2003 Kentucky Derby if it can happen here it can happen anywhere. It looks funny with two of the top jockeys in the country.

http://www.youtube.com/Partymanners2

[Pace Cap'n]

the board back in 2003, this was the biggest race in the United States the 2003 Kentucky Derby if it can happen here it can happen anywhere. It looks funny with two of the top jockeys in the country.

http://www.youtube.com/Partymanners2

To which race are you referring? Jose Santos had what was probably the most scrutinized ride ever in the '03 Derby.

The link above is to the 1995 Derby.

[Shenanigans]

You better get your head out the sand if you dont think trainers use batteries in the morning and in the afternoon.

You better get some glasses and re-read my posts. I never said batteries are not used. :rolleyes: