BB Headin To The Haskell

[Stevie Belmont]

And the Jersey Shore
http://www.drf.com/news/article/95610.html

[onefast99]

Not as hot as Saratoga? Hmmmm.

[cj]

That is what I was thinking.

[alhattab]

Not as hot as Saratoga? Hmmmm.

Pure, unadulterated BS.

I mean, you get a nice breeze there almost all the time (except Belmont weekend), but cooler? I can't believe he even bothered with that one!

[lamboguy]

i wonder if he shows up if we have two step in the race

[46zilzal]

Come back for an easy one, do well to convince the breeders then Quit on that note.

[joanied]

Pure, unadulterated BS.

I mean, you get a nice breeze there almost all the time (except Belmont weekend), but cooler? I can't believe he even bothered with that one!

I haven't been to Jersey since I left NY (DUH!!)...but man, I can recall some mighty hot days over there. Guess they better HOPE for a cool sea breeze!!!
I bet BB would love the mornings at Saratoga...now there ya got some nice cool temps...in fact, I recall being up there and being way too cold in the mornings....but, yeah, it does get hot in the afternoon's...but not any worse than Jersey!!
Maybe they couldn't get any stalls up there at the Spa??

I hope Zito runs Da Tara in the Haskell....but he always goes to the Spa, and the Travers is a key race to win. With or without BB, it should fill as a great race...I wonder if Col. John will be up there?

[lamboguy]

i hope they all show up for that race in jersey. if you want to be the best, you got to beat the best. we got started late, we have 4 wins against california horses. neilson the owner, is not afraid to run against anything,millionaire run got beat 20 lenghts in a maiden race, she come back in a graded stake to break her maiden, salsa who has some guts, yet really unproven deserves the shot against the big guys. canani says he gets better after each race, he has done a super job bringing him to this point. i just hope he gets the chance to prove how good he really is.

[PaceAdvantage]

Come back for an easy one, do well to convince the breeders then Quit on that note.Eventually, this theory of yours will have to be correct. Were you one of the ones who said he will never race again after the Belmont, win or lose?

Of course, there is still plenty of time between now and August for BB to be sent home to the farm.

[Stevie Belmont]

The cooler weather thing is a joke. I have been to every Haskell since 1998 and I can tell you the place can get very hot...

I remember the place being pretty hot for almost all of them. Coronado's Quest Haskell was in the 90's. Point Given and War Emblem were very hot days, both in the mid 90's. The Lion Heart Haskell was hot as well. The only ones that were not that bad were...Dixie Union, humid with a shower, Menifee was warm and cloudy, and Bluegrass Cat was a nice day, not to bad, but the others were sweat boxes.

So if they are looking for cooler weather, it's really not the place.

But the weather thing is all BS anyway. We know that.

if he even runs again.

[46zilzal]

Eventually, this theory of yours will have to be correct. Were you one of the ones who said he will never race again after the Belmont, win or lose?


NO, only considered it a POSSIBILITY. Breeder's aren't impressed with such a disastrous loss: it leaves a very sour note on the record. The idiots behind this supposed "gold mine" don't give a crap about the sport only about $$$$ and they just learned a big lesson: NOTHING is a given in this game. Nothing

[jognlope]

Unless Jersey short breezes make it cooler, the Spa is in the Adirondack foothills and is not that hot. I live 25 miles from the track. last nigth I had to turn the heat on.

[joanied]

The cooler weather thing is a joke. I have been to every Haskell since 1998 and I can tell you the place can get very hot...

I remember the place being pretty hot for almost all of them. Coronado's Quest Haskell was in the 90's. Point Given and War Emblem were very hot days, both in the mid 90's. The Lion Heart Haskell was hot as well. The only ones that were not that bad were...Dixie Union, humid with a shower, Menifee was warm and cloudy, and Bluegrass Cat was a nice day, not to bad, but the others were sweat boxes.

So if they are looking for cooler weather, it's really not the place.

But the weather thing is all BS anyway. We know that.

if he even runs again.

Glad you posted that about all those races being run with temps in the 90's...I was starting to second guess myself about how I remembered NJ...hot!!
I agree... BB running in the Haskell has nothing to do with how hot it might be at Saratoga, if that were the case, BB would love the Spa...I can't recall ever going to the barn in the morning when it was hot, and for me, the afternoon's up there were no worse than anyplace else in July-Aug!!!

I'm thinking they either are trying to avoid a strong field, or Dutrow couldn't get stalls at the Spa.

[rastajenk]

The link mentions appearance money.

[Shenanigans]

I will believe it when I see it. I remember Smarty Jones was to race after the Belmont too......

[Tom]

I think BB has flondered for the last time.

Dutrow was going to show up at Congress, too.
Can't believe thinkg one this doofball say.
Frankly, I hope BB never comes back. He left a bad taste and
I'd just a soon it be over. He has many years of breeding defective offspring ahead of him.....let him do the mares what he did to racing on Belmont day!:ThmbDown:

Think about it - the heavy favorite, media darling, dominant horse just stops running, no one can find anyting wrong, and they say he will run again after taking down how many millions of dollars in betting money......and racing just shrugs it's shoulders and goes on it's merry way. That should pack in the new fans, by golly!

[Shenanigans]

I think BB has floundered for the last time.

Dutrow was going to show up at Congress, too.
Can't believe thing one this doofball say.
Frankly, I hope BB never comes back. He left a bad taste and
I'd just a soon it be over. He has many years of breeding defective offspring ahead of him.....let him do the mares what he did to racing on Belmont day!:ThmbDown:

Think about it - the heavy favorite, media darling, dominant horse just stops running, no one can find anything wrong, and they say he will run again after taking down how many millions of dollars in betting money......and racing just shrugs it's shoulders and goes on it's merry way. That should pack in the new fans, by golly!

Don't blame the horse, blame the trainer. Had the trainer done right by the horse we would have never seen him race in the Belmont. He had no business in the race. He didn't get enough training to get the job done but his arrogant trainer thought BB was invincible. He found out quickly that BB was still a horse and not some super freak. Some of us could have told him that.

[Spendabuck85]

Dutrow was just on Capital OTB and stated that it was the owner's decision to go the Haskell and he didn't know about it until he read it in the newspaper. He wanted to go the Travers for the next start.
He also was still critical of Desormeaux's ride, especially the start and first 1/4 mile, as well as easing the horse. He said that no horse should be eased in a race unless something is wrong with the horse and that there was nothing wrong with BB.

[garyoz]

Dutrow was just on Capital OTB and stated that it was the owner's decision to go the Haskell and he didn't know about it until he read it in the newspaper. He wanted to go the Travers for the next start.
He also was still critical of Desormeaux's ride, especially the start and first 1/4 mile, as well as easing the horse. He said that no horse should be eased in a race unless something is wrong with the horse and that there was nothing wrong with BB.

Dutrow has a lot of credibility. Let's just get past BB and his connections. Hope he just goes to the farm. Anyone want to nominate Dutrow for an Eclipse?

[GlenninOhio]

Don't blame the horse, blame the trainer. Had the trainer done right by the horse we would have never seen him race in the Belmont. He had no business in the race. He didn't get enough training to get the job done but his arrogant trainer thought BB was invincible. He found out quickly that BB was still a horse and not some super freak. Some of us could have told him that.

Assuming the horse was not physically ready for the rigors of the Belmont, the finger can point well beyond Dutrow for running him. After all is said and done, Dutrow is just a contract employee of IEAH's.

Is it at all difficult to imagine that Dutrow's marching orders from this particular ownership group was "this horse runs in the Belmont - end of story"?

And let's not forget the breeding interests lurking in the background - one can only imagine what the written and unwritten agreements were regarding the financial impact on the breeding deal of him winning the TC.

I am far, far from a Dutrow fan, but the bluster and the trash talk could have been his way of dealing with the fact that running this horse in that race was non-negotiable.

[Tom]

Don't blame the horse, blame the trainer.

Yeah, that is what I meant. BB is just a symbol now, of bad racing at it's worst. Just don' t breed those feet of his! :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't blame the horse, blame the trainer. Had the trainer done right by the horse we would have never seen him race in the Belmont.If David Hofmans had taken this advice (according to published reports), he never would have won the Belmont Stakes with Touch Gold, and we would have had a Triple Crown winner in Silver Charm.

[joanied]

If David Hofmans had taken this advice (according to published reports), he never would have won the Belmont Stakes with Touch Gold, and we would have had a Triple Crown winner in Silver Charm.

PA.....can you explain that a little bit?

[joanied]

Dutrow was just on Capital OTB and stated that it was the owner's decision to go the Haskell and he didn't know about it until he read it in the newspaper. He wanted to go the Travers for the next start.
He also was still critical of Desormeaux's ride, especially the start and first 1/4 mile, as well as easing the horse. He said that no horse should be eased in a race unless something is wrong with the horse and that there was nothing wrong with BB.

Is there a link to this story? He should be critical of Kent's ride...and I am glad to know he is saying these things...
I wonder why Dutrow favored the Travers, and IEAH the Haskell...besides the ridiculous reason they gave about the Spa being to hot for BB.
In fact, I wonder just exactly is gong on with Dutrow & IEAH now?

[PaceAdvantage]

PA.....can you explain that a little bit?Well, Shenanigans said "Had the trainer done right by the horse we would have never seen him race in the Belmont."

I responded by saying if trainer David Hofmans had also "done right by the horse," Touch Gold would not have won the Belmont and Silver Charm would have been a Triple Crown winner:

McKinlay said he has dealt with far more serious foot troubles, and on the eve of major races. He treated Touch Gold for a badly torn hoof before he won the 1997 Belmont and aided River Keen before he took the 1999 Jockey Club (http://www.newsday.com/topic/economy-business-finance/jockey-club-incorporated-%28the%29-ORCRP008467.topic) Gold Cup. "River Keen was dead lame the day before the race and I fixed it up," he said.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/horseracing/ny-spbrown265703063may26,0,3794372.story

[Shenanigans]

Assuming the horse was not physically ready for the rigors of the Belmont, the finger can point well beyond Dutrow for running him. After all is said and done, Dutrow is just a contract employee of IEAH's.

Is it at all difficult to imagine that Dutrow's marching orders from this particular ownership group was "this horse runs in the Belmont - end of story"?

And let's not forget the breeding interests lurking in the background - one can only imagine what the written and unwritten agreements were regarding the financial impact on the breeding deal of him winning the TC.

I am far, far from a Dutrow fan, but the bluster and the trash talk could have been his way of dealing with the fact that running this horse in that race was non-negotiable.

I don't think Dutrow would have backed off the horse even if the owners/breeders weren't putting pressure on him. He talked as if his horse could get the job done on two legs if he had to because what he was running against - according to Dutrow - wasn't much stock. He had himself convinced of this and he was just as greedy as the rest of the connections to see BB win the TC.
There are plenty of trainers out there that say "no" to their owners, especially if the horse isn't fit to get the job done. Dutrow has no excuse IMO.

[Shenanigans]

Well, Shenanigans said "Had the trainer done right by the horse we would have never seen him race in the Belmont."

I responded by saying if trainer David Hofmans had also "done right by the horse," Touch Gold would not have won the Belmont and Silver Charm would have been a Triple Crown winner:



http://www.newsday.com/sports/horseracing/ny-spbrown265703063may26,0,3794372.story

I was told by a friend with first hand knowledge that Touch Gold was no where near as "lame" as BB. From what I gather, TG injury wasn't as fresh either. Take it for what it's worth......

[PaceAdvantage]

I was told by a friend with first hand knowledge that Touch Gold was no where near as "lame" as BB. From what I gather, TG injury wasn't as fresh either. Take it for what it's worth......There was media swarming around BB every day leading up to the Belmont. I remember seeing video of a dead-lame Casino Drive UNABLE to even bear weight on that left hind, but I don't recall seeing any photos or video of BB displaying obvious signs of lameness.

I wonder why?

[joanied]

There was media swarming around BB every day leading up to the Belmont. I remember seeing video of a dead-lame Casino Drive UNABLE to even bear weight on that left hind, but I don't recall seeing any photos or video of BB displaying obvious signs of lameness.

I wonder why?

Could it be.....he wasn't lame :bang:
:faint:

[joanied]

Well, Shenanigans said "Had the trainer done right by the horse we would have never seen him race in the Belmont."

I responded by saying if trainer David Hofmans had also "done right by the horse," Touch Gold would not have won the Belmont and Silver Charm would have been a Triple Crown winner:



http://www.newsday.com/sports/horseracing/ny-spbrown265703063may26,0,3794372.story

Oh:blush: sometimes I'm such a dufas!!!

Wish Hofman's :rolleyes: HAD 'done right' by the horse... I was crushed:(

[joanied]

I don't think Dutrow would have backed off the horse even if the owners/breeders weren't putting pressure on him. He talked as if his horse could get the job done on two legs if he had to because what he was running against - according to Dutrow - wasn't much stock. He had himself convinced of this and he was just as greedy as the rest of the connections to see BB win the TC.
There are plenty of trainers out there that say "no" to their owners, especially if the horse isn't fit to get the job done. Dutrow has no excuse IMO.

Man, you are just never going to give Dutrow a break...

If you mean Dutrow 'backing off' pertaining to his training...well, he did...and maybe even if BB had a perfect start to the Belmont, he may have gotten tired because he'd missed so much training....Dutrow was trying to do what was best for BB.

Dutrow isn't the only person saying the colts he ran against are not the best bunch of Triple Crown horses we've come across...almost everyone has said negative things concerning this year's top 3 yr. olds. For at least the first part of the year, BB WAS the BEST. And there is nothing wrong with a trainer, or anyone for that matter, to beleive in a horse so much that all other horses pale in comparison...geeze, Lucien ran Secretariat when the horse was not well....and Big Red got beat....Lucien figured he was so much tbe best, not feeling well was no problem.

Dutrow wasn't being "greedy" about the TC...come on, girl...there ain't a trainer working that doesn't want to win a TC...to the point where a lot of them run a horse in the Derby that shouldn't be there...geeze, it's the racing holy grail....they ALL want it.

Yep, plenty of trainers say "no' to their owners, and the next morning, the owner takes his horses away...there are some owner/trainer relationships that are solid enough, for one reason or another, that the trainer can go against his owner's wishes...but in most cases...say no and loose the horse.

[joanied]

Don't blame the horse, blame the trainer. Had the trainer done right by the horse we would have never seen him race in the Belmont. He had no business in the race. He didn't get enough training to get the job done but his arrogant trainer thought BB was invincible. He found out quickly that BB was still a horse and not some super freak. Some of us could have told him that.

Oppssss. almost missed this post, Shenanigans...
I agree:jump: do not blame the horse....but...as I mentioned before...don't put all the blame on Dutrow either...as I said in my other post, Lucien thought Secretariat was invinsible...and there is no fault in a man believing in his horse...and saying so...but for Dutrow, I think he would have liked to scratch BB using his lack of training as the reason...but those IEAH guys were hell bent for glory...these guys are Wall Street sharpies...money talks...and where Dutrow would want to put the horse first, the Wall Street dudes simply want to see 'the bottom line'...$$$$$$...ca-ching!!

[Shenanigans]

There was media swarming around BB every day leading up to the Belmont. I remember seeing video of a dead-lame Casino Drive UNABLE to even bear weight on that left hind, but I don't recall seeing any photos or video of BB displaying obvious signs of lameness.

I wonder why?

So you didn't see the shot ESPN had of him while getting a bath (the day before the race) standing, knee bent, resting his front hoof on his toe?? Horses normally will do that with their back legs, but it's not normal for the front. I wonder why?

[Shenanigans]

Man, you are just never going to give Dutrow a break...

If you mean Dutrow 'backing off' pertaining to his training...well, he did...and maybe even if BB had a perfect start to the Belmont, he may have gotten tired because he'd missed so much training....Dutrow was trying to do what was best for BB.

Dutrow isn't the only person saying the colts he ran against are not the best bunch of Triple Crown horses we've come across...almost everyone has said negative things concerning this year's top 3 yr. olds. For at least the first part of the year, BB WAS the BEST. And there is nothing wrong with a trainer, or anyone for that matter, to beleive in a horse so much that all other horses pale in comparison...geeze, Lucien ran Secretariat when the horse was not well....and Big Red got beat....Lucien figured he was so much tbe best, not feeling well was no problem.

Dutrow wasn't being "greedy" about the TC...come on, girl...there ain't a trainer working that doesn't want to win a TC...to the point where a lot of them run a horse in the Derby that shouldn't be there...geeze, it's the racing holy grail....they ALL want it.

Yep, plenty of trainers say "no' to their owners, and the next morning, the owner takes his horses away...there are some owner/trainer relationships that are solid enough, for one reason or another, that the trainer can go against his owner's wishes...but in most cases...say no and loose the horse.


You really are living in a fantasy land.

[Shenanigans]

Oppssss. almost missed this post, Shenanigans...
I agree:jump: do not blame the horse....but...as I mentioned before...don't put all the blame on Dutrow either...as I said in my other post, Lucien thought Secretariat was invinsible...and there is no fault in a man believing in his horse...and saying so...but for Dutrow, I think he would have liked to scratch BB using his lack of training as the reason...but those IEAH guys were hell bent for glory...these guys are Wall Street sharpies...money talks...and where Dutrow would want to put the horse first, the Wall Street dudes simply want to see 'the bottom line'...$$$$$$...ca-ching!!

First off, BB isn't Secretariat. What records did BB break and are still standing today? Second off, I don't ever remember reading about Lucien trashing talking other trainers. So your comparison means nada.:jump:

[PaceAdvantage]

So you didn't see the shot ESPN had of him while getting a bath (the day before the race) standing, knee bent, resting his front hoof on his toe?? Horses normally will do that with their back legs, but it's not normal for the front. I wonder why?Yes, I did see that...I forgot about that clip...I caught a brief glimpse of it on TVG....

[joanied]

First off, BB isn't Secretariat. What records did BB break and are still standing today? Second off, I don't ever remember reading about Lucien trashing talking other trainers. So your comparison means nada.:jump:

I didn't say BB was Secretariat...I said Lucien thought Secretariat was invinsible.
And I am not comparing Dutrow with Lucien concerning any trash talk...I was simply trying to make the point that all trainers with exceptional horses will beleive in that horse 100%.

[joanied]

You really are living in a fantasy land.

You have your opinions, I have mine...do not tell me I'm living in a fantasy land...you don't know me.

[onefast99]

Is Lukas the one who says "you have to be in it to win it?" Well BB had to be in the race no ifs ands or buts about it. The shoe is the issue, the run downs also were an issue and the lack of water on the track was an issue. Add it up and he didnt perform due to a combination of the above mentioned. Mark my words he will be 1-5 in the Haskell and win easily. BB accomplished a lot, the excitement he created going into the Belmont with the possibility of winning the triple crown was enough to spark a lot more interest in horse racing thus far this year despite a bad economy and $4 gas prices. The fact he goes to the Haskell and Monmouth Park will reap the rewards with a huge crowd and probably a nice handle just proves that people love this horse wherever he races!

[joanied]

Is Lukas the one who says "you have to be in it to win it?" Well BB had to be in the race no ifs ands or buts about it. The shoe is the issue, the run downs also were an issue and the lack of water on the track was an issue. Add it up and he didnt perform due to a combination of the above mentioned. Mark my words he will be 1-5 in the Haskell and win easily. BB accomplished a lot, the excitement he created going into the Belmont with the possibility of winning the triple crown was enough to spark a lot more interest in horse racing thus far this year despite a bad economy and $4 gas prices. The fact he goes to the Haskell and Monmouth Park will reap the rewards with a huge crowd and probably a nice handle just proves that people love this horse wherever he races!

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:
I agree...it was multiple issues for BB:
Lack of training
no electrolytes on a hot, humid day
lasix on a hot, humid day
the loose shoe
the bad break, bumping, pushing, being yanked this way & that (Kent's ride)
a deep and very dry surface
being way out in the middle of that deep, dry track (Kent's ride)
being taken completely out of his game
freaking out in the holding barn
trying to mount a pony before the race

In the Haskell...we'll see the real BB again
:jump: :jump: