High gas prices thanks to the democrats

[HUSKER55]

Bush asked congress to allow drilling to offset prices aand to lessen our dependency on foreign oil and the Democrats rejected and so does Obama.

It is on CNN.

I am voting for McCain because he wants to open our fields. It is the right thing to do.

husker55

:)

[headhawg]

Hmm...maybe. But do you really think that will lower fuel prices? I don't. The powers-that-be (Big Business/Oil companies) will say that the problem is that there aren't enough refineries or that demand is still higher than supply...yada, yada, yada. All the while the fat cats get richer and "middle" America gets squeezed once again.

Here's a real idea. How about some really inventive company actually creates a cheap gasoline alternative? Oh, and they would have to have a management/executive team in place with real balls so that they don't get tempted by the mega-dollars that the oil companies would throw at them to buy them off.

BTW, whatever happened to the alternative fuel research that the oil companies did in the 70's during the last gas crisis when (Nixon?) gave them subsidies to do so? Oh yeah -- the $$$ went right into their pockets. Bitches.

[delayjf]

How do you feel about allowing the Chinese to drill off our coast while the US sits on its hands.

[hcap]

How do you feel about allowing the Chinese to drill off our coast while the US sits on its hands.I think old Darth Cheney just disavowed this talking point. :cool:

[HUSKER55]

As I have posted on other threads, those "inventors" from the '70's came to an early retirement thanks to big oil. Most of those patents were bought by the giant oil companies and guess where they are at. Nixon tried, but it blew up in his face and no one has bothered with it since.

My friend served in Germany and her 351 Cleveland got 45 MPG back then but they wouldn't allow her to bring that car back to the US. Why do you suppose that is?

These damn politicians all need to be shot as I respect damn few of them. Fact is, off the top of my head, I don't know who,if any, I would salvage if given the opportunity.

All I know is America is being screwed. If America doesn't do something to correct this then America will fall without one shot being fired.

Maybe the drilling won't solve todays problems but it will down the road.

Now, unless you expect all Americans to keep wearing knee pads, don't you guys think we should be for doing something now?

Build all the windmills you want you will still never generate all the power needed to run this country. Biofuels won't either. Help yes, solve the problem,...not in our lifetime. If you think otherwise you may be listening to everybody's good friend Jimmy Beam.

Here is the point. We need leaders with the kahunnas to say no and make it stick. We don't have that. There isn't one on the horizon.

Like everyone else here, I am trying to figure out what to do.

[Show Me the Wire]

I think old Darth Cheney just disavowed this talking point. :cool:


Cuba and China, as reported yesterday on CNN are forming a partnership to drill off the U.S. coast line. The Pelosi dems don't want U.S. drilling to compete with Pelosi's communist Chinese benefactors. The discusion, about evironment protection, is over because China is going to drill off the Florida coast.

And everyday it sounds more and more like Jimmy's second term. Just a few momoents ago Gov. Richardson, an ardent Obama supporter, sounded like a Jimmy Carter spokesperson saying that Americans may have to sacrifice. The famous Carter energy plan Americans have to sacrifice, but don't build nuclear power plants, don't build oil refineries, don't drill for oil. All we have to do is sacrifice.

And the Kennedy's won't allow wind power because those ugly windmills will spoil the view.

We will sacrifice while communist China, the worlds largest and most notoriuos pollluter will rape the envrionment off the U.S. coast to obatin energy. Good plan Jimmy, uh I mean Obama.

[Tom]

How do you feel about allowing the Chinese to drill off our coast while the US sits on its hands. We are the ONLY country that prohibits off shore drilling. The dems WANT high gas prices and will do whatever it takes to keep them high. The can't even get their stories straight as to whether more drilling will ower prices or not. The whole party is a bunch of lying nitwits or morons. UpChuck Shummer and Bin Losi change thier stories daily. Both are traitors to the American people and should be impeached for gross incompetance and stupidity.

[hcap]

Once again the right is wrong.

http://www.kypost.com/content/wcposhared/story.aspx?content_id=27719675-3449-4aca-b5a2-c786594d5372

Jean Schmidt Spreads Urban Legend On House Floor

Last Update: 6/17 11:17 am
Congresswoman Jean Schmidt is being criticized for spreading an urban legend while speaking on the U.S. House floor.

The 2nd District Republican claimed China is drilling for oil off Florida's coast.

Vice President Dick Cheney has also made that same claim.

The problem is, it's not true. Claims that China is drilling for oil off Florida's coast amount to urban legend, experts say.

More
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hwl7MBs14OAtZbu1YJe8l-X7O8vAD919066O3

More
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/oil_and_cuba.php

[Tom]

So they would like you to believe......:cool:

[hcap]

So they would like you to believe......:cool:Remember we had a discussion recently where I said you rarely post links out to the real world, but rather rely on your opinions. You mentioned something along the lines that's what "Real Men Do" when posting on blogs. Not some nambsy pansy nerdy external links like I attempt. As I remember you said anyone can DO THAT!


Prepare for another of my nerdy tricks. A cartoon. I would like someone to explain this to you in more detail. Speak to Homer
















http://firedoglake.com/files/1/files//2008/06/homerpackingheat.jpg

[ddog]

How do you feel about allowing the Chinese to drill off our coast while the US sits on its hands.

FINE, like everything else they will sell it to us and we will borrow the money from them to buy it.


More b.s. that sadly leads to the "easy way out" that so much of the U.S. wants/needs to believe.

I come to realize more and more every day that we do not have the stones for it anymore, we want to blame everyone while changing nothing.

No muss , no fuss, don't worry, be happy, believe something will save you.

[NJ Stinks]

Gas was an average $1.72 a gallon the week of March 10, 2003. Gas averaged a $1.20 a gallon in March 2002.

The Iraq War began on March 20, 2003.

To blame the high price of gas today on Democrats is to believe in Cinderella and the tooth fairy.

I'd suggest that people turn off the radio once in a while and think it out on your own. But that may be perceived as unpatriotic.

[boxcar]

Bush asked congress to allow drilling to offset prices aand to lessen our dependency on foreign oil and the Democrats rejected and so does Obama.

It is on CNN.

I am voting for McCain because he wants to open our fields. It is the right thing to do.

husker55

:)

McCain is just pandering. Only believe this self-professed "maverick" as fas as you think you can throw him.

Meanwhile, the dimwits over on the other side of the aisle keep saying that digging now isn't going to do anything soon to help with the inflated price situation. Now, as difficult as it is for me to say this -- they're probably right. Why? Because we're soooooo far behind the curve on this drilling issue, it might indeed take us 5 to 10 years to realize any meaningful positive price impact. (Our not-too-sharp government should have had the foresight about a quarter of a century ago to see our need for drilling for oil! They should have done that and researched and developed new technology that would eventually become affordable. The one policy does not preclude the other! But I digress.) But putting the U.S. behind the eight ball in a very bad way is precisely what the Libs and their environmentalist lobbyist buddues want to do. And the best and fastest way to to bring the U.S. to its knees, economically and politically, is to make us pay through the nose for the lifeblood of this nation. Energy is to our economy what blood is to our bodies. Just like the human body cannot sustain itself for long without a healthy blood supply, neither can this nation sustain its economic health apart from reasonably priced energy.

Only a government who does not have the best interests of the People at heart would have allowed this situation to get so out of hand. Only power and money hungry government officials would adopt an energy policy that would move the U.S. farther away from self-reliance and closer to dependence for much of our oil from not-so-friendly nations. How can we, as the largest consumer of oil on the planet, not want to move closer and closer to energy self-reliance? These are the kinds of questions and issues that should have been raised 20 years or so ago.

Of course, the Libs' answer to our current situation is tax the "windfall profits" of the oil companies -- as though this unjustified punitive action would help Joe Blow at the gas pump.

Let me ask you Libs something. Let's say I'm a widget wholesaler. And 5 years ago, as a middleman (which is what the oil companies are) I bought my little widgets for 20 cents a pop. And I turned around a resold each one for a 10% profit, making a 2 cent profit. But now I have to buy my widgets for $1.00 each due to market conditions. Selling them at the same 10% margin will now reap me a 10 cent profit per widget -- a whopping 5 times the profit I made 5 years ago. But how is this to be considered "price gouging" or "excessive profit-taking" or a "windfall" profit? If the oil companies are reselling their refined products at or very near the profit margin rate of previous years when oil was cheap, then how are oil companies taking excessive profits?

In closing, it's always easy for the elite, pseudo-intellectual snobbish ruling class to tell the People (or should I say the proletariat?) to be prepared to sacrifice, most especially when said rulers have no intentions of practicing what they preach.

Boxcar

[ddog]

Here are some attempt at facts to peruse on energy.

The problem with "we could have done it long ago", is that the "free market" as you can see from the study had no incentive to provide more oil for any extended period of time.

The current spike in oil costs is not drilling related.
Hard to understand I guess, but it's not.
The future price may , but not the short term.


http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/reports_and_publications/statistical_energy_review_2008/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/pdf/statistical_review_of_world_energy_full_review_200 8.pdf

[HUSKER55]

Ya know guys and girls, it is really easy to point fingers. I otta know cause I do it as well as any body else. I mean it is real easy to say Obama can't control his own house how do you expect him to control a congress that has already decided not to drill especially if he is their leader and is saying the same thing?

I thought of a couple solutions to our problem. Don't know how to make an impact but here we go.

The states need to take control of their own affairs and tell the Federal government to stay out. Think about it for a minute. Each state would control the drilling for oil. Each state could get rid of the "free trade zones". Each state controling it's own ship as far as entering the market place. Keep the Feds out of the decision making process and make it local.

A national sales tax that no one is exempt from.

A mandatory cut in staffs of 25% for federal government, ergo, more people paying in and less being paid out.

a line item veto for all budgets. Think about that one.

Consolidation of related programs along with a mandatory 25% cut in the number of programs.

Take all of these savings and invest in alternative energies. One alone will not do the trick. We need all we can find. Solar, wind, biofuel,etc.

My thinking is that the poor civilians can't defeat the big dog but we can knock some teeth out and make the bite less.

What are your thoughts?

husker55

:)

[ddog]

The states of California and Florida , up to now are WHY there is no expanded drilling off their shore.

The people in those states via their elected reps did not want to drill back in the day, thus to get/stay in office the pols went along.
So, it seems either the "pain" has to get worse to force them to change or the FEDS trample(?) those states rights to force them to allow.

I got to run, but the cut of 25% of gvt workers while something I would like to see would only end up with them drawing unemployment/welfare benefits.
There isn't anything really adding jobs but gvt.

Just a hiring freeze would get you there over the next 5-10 years.


The sales tax deal, I am for the Fair Tax Plan being pushed by Boortz and others,which is NOT the flat tax.
If we could get back to PAYGo , I would be in favour of anything to do that.

We have to stop digging the hole deeper.

[adamg]

To you uninformed people out there the oil companies are leasing land from goverment for oil drilling right at this moment there is 68 million acres of land all ready and clear to use but BIG OIL refuses to drill ask the re-puke-licians WHY. Also off shore drilling or doing anwar 10 years to start getting oil . Im very sure that will help with gas prices. Oh yes it will save in 10 years 1.8 cents per gallon So thank you george and dick and oh yes mac bush

[Tom]

Ya know guys and girls, it is really easy to point fingers. I otta know cause I do it as well as any body else.


:)

How true.

Bottom line, the dems had 8 years and the repubs had 8 yers, and both controlled the ocngress for some period during those terms.
Neither side accomplished anything of any value. The only constant has been the corruption, the perversion, the general unwillingness to step up and actually represent the people who elected them. Our system is broken and I doubt it can fixes short of revolution. They are all bought and paid for and looking for more. They call bribery lobbying and every vote is in return for something.

Only two people are going to take back this country. Smith and Wesson.

[Tom]

To you uninformed people out there the oil companies are leasing land from goverment for oil drilling right at this moment there is 68 million acres of land all ready and clear to use but BIG OIL refuses to drill ask the re-puke-licians WHY. Also off shore drilling or doing anwar 10 years to start getting oil . Im very sure that will help with gas prices. Oh yes it will save in 10 years 1.8 cents per gallon So thank you george and dick and oh yes mac bush

Anything to back up all those claims...like some facts? Or are you just parroting what they told you to think?

[Lefty]

adamg, problem is with that 68 million acres of oil leases that DOESN'T gurantee there is OIL there. The oil business is highly speculative and most leases don't produce any oil. WE KNOW where the oil is, why not go get it. BTW, GW also called for building more refineries. We can't conserve our way out of the oil crisis, we have to produce more oil while we're waiting for alternative energy to become viable, which may be another twenty yrs, who knows?
The dims, do not want to solve this problem. They want to keep the problem, talk it to death and ultimately blame Repubs for everything. They have done the same thing for yrs with SS and now they're doing it with Energy. Wise up folks. We can't sit and do nothing, we must act.

[delayjf]

Anything to back up all those claims...like some facts? Or are you just parroting what they told you to think?

Indeed, I'm surprized Obama has not responded to the Repubs call to drill with the above revelation. You couldn't ask for a better set of circumstances to tilt the US public towards a winfall profits tax. Why didn't any of this come up in the Congressional investigation of the oil companies? How is it that one poster here on this board knows more than the US Govenment with all its intel / investigative resources? I wish I had inside info like that - I wonder how much that would be worth to ExxonMobile?? :confused:

[Lefty]

delay, i don't know who you're talking about but windfall tax on profits will hurt investors, people with pension plans invested and is just another failed idea. Perhaps the should drill in Obama's brain because he brings nothing but dinosaur lib ideas that have failed so many times before.

[adamg]

Tom first off I learned a long time ago not to listen to a politico because they very seldom speak the truth and never do at election time. That being said I listened to a person on c-span that mentioned the 68 million acres not being used for drilling he was a federal gov hack. He also said that with-in the next few weeks Nancy and the dems will be introducing a bill that will be a USE IT OR LOSE IT lease bill. Meaning the oil companies will have to drill or lose their lease. As to someones question [How do we know there is oil on the leased land ] I think if you see anyone in congress fighting this bill you will know there is oil on the leased land. Also why would big oil pay for land to use if they were not going to make money off of it. A good site on lease information is www.ewg.org/oilandgas (http://www.ewg.org/oilandgas) click on ewg gas and oil then click on who owns the west

[46zilzal]

The last time I visited a California beach I was taken aback by the number of off shore rigs, and the attendant GOO all over the beach. What an eyesore.

People are going to love having the few nice beaches left fouled by their crud.

[King Ritchie]

The democrats do not want to drill because they want CONTROL over the people and the enviroment. This is what Communism is all about. People that deny this are either part of this thinking or are simply too stupid to realize how they are being duped and are simply the "sheeps" of the world. I would suspect that people like Hcap and Zil are part of the latter.

A recent study showed that the majority of people who fall for scams and such are mostly liberal by a ratio of more than 5 to 1 - these are the same people who have fallen for the global warming scam.

[46zilzal]

The democrats do not want to drill because they want CONTROL over the people and the enviroment. This is what Communism is all about. People that deny this are either part of this thinking or are simply too stupid to realize how they are being duped and are simply the "sheeps" of the world. I would suspect that people like Hcap and Zil are part of the latter.

A recent study showed that the majority of people who fall for scams and such are mostly liberal by a ratio of more than 5 to 1 - these are the same people who have fallen for the global warming scam.

Your parallels are pitiful. Another Black and Whiter.....when the world is multiple shades of gray for everyone around the world.

[Marshall Bennett]

The last time I visited a California beach I was taken aback by the number of off shore rigs, and the attendant GOO all over the beach. What an eyesore.

People are going to love having the few nice beaches left fouled by their crud.
Seriously doubt the " GOO " was coming from the drilling rigs , especially those close enough to shore that you could see them . Having been involved in litigation with such matters I can assure you these vessels are closely monitored where waste disposal is concerned . If there were even a moments concern that the " GOO " was related to the rigs , especially to the degree your suggesting , operations would be haulted until the culprit was found . :)

[boxcar]

Your parallels are pitiful. Another Black and Whiter.....when the world is multiple shades of gray for everyone around the world.

You have sunk so deep in that dark, murky pit of Denial, I doubt an atomic explosion would extricate you.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

You have sunk so deep in that dark, murky pit of Denial, I doubt an atomic explosion would extricate you.

Boxcar
Another resident "Black and Whiter" chimes in with his "like" minded minions.

[ddog]

interesting conversation on oil and com markets and specs , etc.
http://nihoncassandra.blogspot.com/2008/05/beyond-greed.html

read it see where you come down.

I am and have been for sometime on the side basically of the "dumb wall of money" , it needs , must find somewhere to go for a decent return and will flow into any "market" that is turned into a casino, commodities are but the latest.

This is also one of the main reasons why widly increasing PRIVATE debt levels are a very bad thing.

Lots of that "funny money" ends up in the "dumb wall o bucks" and thus chases rising commodity prices.

We have essentially flooded the loop back curve with "fake demand".


I would vote to do away with margin , put up your own dollar or stay out.
This from someone who has made some bucks and loves to play in these markets, BUT it's time to get real with the OIL.

If you don't think it can be done just recall Enron and California.
They were never out of power in the timeframe that the "market price" indicated.
No way.

By the way, "Big Oil" will lease for the same reason "little oil" did back in the day.
You need the lease if you think oil is there. You don't need it today since you may not be able to extract it and break even TODAY, but as long as you have a lease you never know what may become profitable in the future.

Why would anyone that didn't have use of the money now actually drill/sell oil now if you can hold it for higher prices?
You are not going broke now are you/they?

[46zilzal]

Seriously doubt the " GOO " was coming from the drilling rigs , especially those close enough to shore that you could see them . Having been involved in litigation with such matters I can assure you these vessels are closely monitored where waste disposal is concerned . If there were even a moments concern that the " GOO " was related to the rigs , especially to the degree your suggesting , operations would be haulted until the culprit was found .
Let's see, I grew up there and have many friends living in Huntington Beach, where they have resided since the early 70's. ALL of them, not just a few, complain about the wash up of black debris all over the beach. Only change out there in the water are those rigs. COULD there be a correlation?

[boxcar]

Seriously doubt the " GOO " was coming from the drilling rigs , especially those close enough to shore that you could see them . Having been involved in litigation with such matters I can assure you these vessels are closely monitored where waste disposal is concerned . If there were even a moments concern that the " GOO " was related to the rigs , especially to the degree your suggesting , operations would be haulted until the culprit was found . :)

As usual, 46er excels in manifesting just how clueless he is.

46er, visit the Gold Coast of Florida sometime where nary an oil rig is to be found and then explain to us how all that sticky, yucky, gooey "goo" (which is called "tar" was able to find its way to our beaches. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[delayjf]

delay, i don't know who you're talking about but windfall tax on profits will hurt investors,
Lefty,

I agree with you 100% - My point was only if you wanted to further demonize the oil companies why not scream from the mountain tops - See, they have oil in places where they can drill, but won't!! - Its all their fault, we must tax them. And the reason the Demwits have not played that hand is for reasons you point out.

I will have to work on my sarcasm – I normally get by with my good looks.
;)

[Tom]

Seriously doubt the " GOO " was coming from the drilling rigs , especially those close enough to shore that you could see them . Having been involved in litigation with such matters I can assure you these vessels are closely monitored where waste disposal is concerned . If there were even a moments concern that the " GOO " was related to the rigs , especially to the degree your suggesting , operations would be haulted until the culprit was found . :)

I believe that goo comes from ships. In Florida, it was all over Coco Beech, coming from the gambling/cruise ships. I also say a shark. I prefered the goo.

[Tom]

Tom first off I learned a long time ago not to listen to a politico because they very seldom speak the truth and never do at election time. That being said I listened to a person on c-span that mentioned the 68 million acres not being used for drilling he was a federal gov hack. He also said that with-in the next few weeks Nancy and the dems will be introducing a bill that will be a USE IT OR LOSE IT lease bill. Meaning the oil companies will have to drill or lose their lease. As to someones question [How do we know there is oil on the leased land ] I think if you see anyone in congress fighting this bill you will know there is oil on the leased land. Also why would big oil pay for land to use if they were not going to make money off of it. A good site on lease information is www.ewg.org/oilandgas (http://www.ewg.org/oilandgas) click on ewg gas and oil then click on who owns the west

I agree - use them or lose them. I want to know how many leases there are, why are they not being used, who owns them. Is there oil on them?

The house dems are also planning/plotting to nationalize the refineries!
They are sinking to Chavez's level. Anyone who thinks the government can run anything should ride Amtrak.

I want to know how much oil is being drilled in Iraq, who is drilling it , who is buying it, how much are they paying, where is the money going, why are they not using it to rebuild instead of sticking us with the bill, and why are 4 US oil companies negotiating on no-bid contracts there, where is the cheap gas Bush promised us before the war, who was at those secret energy meeting Chenney held in the rolling brownout summer of 2001, and why can't we know now who as there and what was the agenda, and why is it still a secret?

Basically, are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

As on owner of this country, I want an explanation and I want it now.
I have seen enough to no longer believe it is supply and demand.

[ddog]

adamg, problem is with that 68 million acres of oil leases that DOESN'T gurantee there is OIL there. The oil business is highly speculative and most leases don't produce any oil. WE KNOW where the oil is, why not go get it. BTW, GW also called for building more refineries. We can't conserve our way out of the oil crisis, we have to produce more oil while we're waiting for alternative energy to become viable, which may be another twenty yrs, who knows?
The dims, do not want to solve this problem. They want to keep the problem, talk it to death and ultimately blame Repubs for everything. They have done the same thing for yrs with SS and now they're doing it with Energy. Wise up folks. We can't sit and do nothing, we must act.



Wrong again, do you realize how much more we are doing now than in the 70s due to the increased efficiency of oil/energy use.

Your drill/refinery stuff is a pipe dream, you are looking at 10-15 years and then you will not have , short of a massive economic meltdown anything close to the projected increase in oil supply required by the world oil demand at it's current rate of growth.

You must do both , use less and produce more energy from whatever source, oil included.

That may not be what the Pollyannas like to hear but that is the way it is.

Higher gasoline prices would equal higher oil co profits which would be good for your pension plan , right?
You should be for increased price of oil to encourage cutbacks in use.
All you need to is cut back on your fuel use and sit back and grow richer.

[46zilzal]

As usual, 46er excels in manifesting just how clueless he is.

46er, visit the Gold Coast of Florida sometime where nary an oil rig is to be found and then explain to us how all that sticky, yucky, gooey "goo" (which is called "tar" was able to find its way to our beaches.



It naturally comes along as well. Why do they call people from North Carolina Tar Heels? It is naturally found in some places.

In California the problem is significant enough that the US Geological Survey is studying it to discriminate natural versus released sources.
http://geology.usgs.gov/connections/mms/landscapes/oil_gas_seepage.htm

[boxcar]

It naturally comes along as well. Why do they call people from North Carolina Tar Heels? It is naturally found in some places.

In California the problem is significant enough that the US Geological Survey is studying it to discriminate natural versus released sources.
http://geology.usgs.gov/connections/mms/landscapes/oil_gas_seepage.htm

Except in CA, of course, because of the oil rigs, right? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Marshall Bennett]

Let's see, I grew up there and have many friends living in Huntington Beach, where they have resided since the early 70's. ALL of them, not just a few, complain about the wash up of black debris all over the beach. Only change out there in the water are those rigs. COULD there be a correlation?
Drilling companies invest heavily in proper disposal including petroleum based waste . To go to that expense only to pumped their bilges overboard at night and risk reprimand is insane . Accidental release during druilling operation is reported and goes on record . The most likely source of the crud and debris your refering to is natural in origin , except that done by human slobs living nearby or on the beach .

[46zilzal]

Drilling companies invest heavily in proper disposal including petroleum based waste . To go to that expense only to pumped their bilges overboard at night and risk reprimand is insane . Accidental release during druilling operation is reported and goes on record . The most likely source of the crud and debris your refering to is natural in origin , except that done by human slobs living nearby or on the beach .
They can invest until the proverbial cows come home but if they don't do their job there is not a lot of public support for their expansion.

[boxcar]

They can invest until the proverbial cows come home but if they don't do their job there is not a lot of public support for their expansion.

Funny how our oil drilling technology, which is the best on the planet, is never quite good enough to placate worshipers of the goddess Mother Earth.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Funny how our oil drilling technology, which is the best on the planet, is never quite good enough to placate worshipers of the goddess Mother Earth.



No a Taoist. A philosophy (not a religion) that out dates most religions on this planet. Let the world be, the natural order will take care of things.

I constantly marvel at those who have to CONQUER nature and in the end destroy it.

[46zilzal]

To follow the Tao,
Is to honor it's principles,
To realize.
That we live in nature
But can never posses it:
We can guide and serve
But never control.
This is the highest wisdom.

Tao Te Ching 51

[Tom]

Hey, if I can destroy nature, then it wasn't so tough to begin with!

[hcap]

The democrats do not want to drill because they want CONTROL over the people and the enviroment. This is what Communism is all about. People that deny this are either part of this thinking or are simply too stupid to realize how they are being duped and are simply the "sheeps" of the world. I would suspect that people like Hcap and Zil are part of the latter.

A recent study showed that the majority of people who fall for scams and such are mostly liberal by a ratio of more than 5 to 1 - these are the same people who have fallen for the global warming scam.You are by far the most persuasive case for preemptive lobotomy.
Please link to your recent study. But hey Kingy, if you must use your intergalactic-whamo-homogenizing-transceiver cause that link exists only in the black hole between your ears, please give me the correct frequency.............

http://wallstreetexaminer.com/blogs/winter/wp-content/uploads/tinfoilhat-755294.jpg

[Tom]

Good point by Glen Beck this morning.
The libs keep whinning about the "failed energy policies."
Isn't not drilling a failed energy policy?

We don't drill ......Prices go up...we still don' t drill.....price keep going up
We take corn out of the food supply.....prices go up on gas AND food.


Hmmmmm. Seems the dems policies have all failed, too. And failed enough to even make FOOD more expensive.

You're doing a heck of a job, there Nancy.
Mission Accomplished. :lol:

[Lefty]

h'cap, some nice style. The old pitbull style of debate, eh.The King R, is correct. All one has to do is take any big problem over the yrs and see how the dims have torn dn every argument for reform and did virtually nothing but exacerbate the problem. They reject every possible solution the R'sput forth and just talk talk talk. Everything from SS to Oil. Seemsd like their idea is to just have the govt in charge of everything. Smacks of Communism to me pal.

[ddog]

This states well the CURRENT issue of not just oil, but the other .......
You get what you ask for sometimes,even if you don't know what you were wanting.


http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/1244

[ddog]

h'cap, some nice style. The old pitbull style of debate, eh. All one has to do is take any big problem over the yrs and see how the dims have torn dn every argument for reform and did virtually nothing but exacerbate the problem. They reject every possible solution the R'sput forth and just talk talk talk. Everything from SS to Oil. Seemsd like their idea is to just have the govt in charge of everything. Smacks of Communism to me pal.

lost agin, the gvt NOW is in charge of more than at anytime in the recent past.

check out Paulson speech today on expanded fed powers and certain institutions being too big to fail.
gvt must "intervene" :lol: to protect market stability. :lol:

Have he and the other Rs all become D now and you didn't notice?

You will never get it, they are all cut from the same cloth once elected, the only thing different is which hand they use to rip off the kool-aid drinkers.

This country has been socialist in the "avoidance of pain" dept. for many decades and it gets worse all the time.

[JustRalph]

I'm with Ritchie and Glen Beck. Just for the record

[King Ritchie]

His government will provide you with a voucher for a RED Covered Wagon while he and his buddy Egore fly their jets.

[King Ritchie]

Lib/commies Zil and Hcap cannot take any criticism?

It would be fun if everyone here would make some remark about them - they would be up all night replying to all the responses!

They think that if they get in the last word then they are the winners - notice who else does this all the time: Iran's President, Chavez, Castro, Osama, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Durbin, Hcap, Zil - wonder what they all have in common?

[hcap]

Lib/commies Zil and Hcap cannot take any criticism?

It would be fun if everyone here would make some remark about them - they would be up all night replying to all the responses!

They think that if they get in the last word then they are the winners - notice who else does this all the time: Iran's President, Chavez, Castro, Osama, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Durbin, Hcap, Zil - wonder what they all have in common?It would also be fun if we simply asked you to explain your ability to tune into the Klingon home world.
http://wallstreetexaminer.com/blogs/winter/wp-content/uploads/tinfoilhat-755294.jpg

[wonatthewire1]

Getting ya at the pump don't have to be a pollytician livin in Washingtoon!

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20080620_N_J___Many_gas_station_owners_cheating_mo torists.html

The state was hitting 35% of the stations were cheating (350 of 1,000)

[wonatthewire1]

Lib/commies Zil and Hcap cannot take any criticism?

It would be fun if everyone here would make some remark about them - they would be up all night replying to all the responses!

They think that if they get in the last word then they are the winners - notice who else does this all the time: Iran's President, Chavez, Castro, Osama, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Durbin, Hcap, Zil - wonder what they all have in common?

Got to agree with you there King - why us oil investors should be paid handsomely for the risks that we are taking in the marketplace with our excess capital.

Those Dim/Commies never get that we rich guys are floating their social programs. I can't wait for the govt to pull the plug on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid - who the hell wants to keep pouring money into these black holes; we could be investing in stuff that grows our capital!

:ThmbUp:

[hcap]

Hi. dim/commie here. For youse guys, a special thank you. With kind regards to Darth cheney, his wonderfully secret energy group and of course George W Churchill. Fearless leedurs, one and all...

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/88945/?ses=5a6bdb2ecc50f33042cd9f3f65a29181

"But the Administration's greatest contribution to the rising oil prices is its steady stream of threats to attack Iran if it does not back down on the nuclear issue. The Iranians have made it plain that they would retaliate by attempting to block the flow of Gulf oil and otherwise cause turmoil in the energy market. Most analysts assume, therefore, that an encounter will produce a global oil shortage and prices well over $200 per barrel. It is not surprising, then, that every threat by Bush/Cheney (or their counterparts in Israel) has triggered a sharp rise in prices. This is where speculators enter the picture. Believing that a US-Iranian clash is at least 50 percent likely, some investors are buying futures in oil at $140, $150 or more per barrel, thinking they'll make a killing if there's an attack and prices zoom over $200."

[acorn54]

one has to weigh the economic benefits of destroying the environment versus preserving the environment for future generations
it is said americans can't see past their nose
at present the world consumes 85 million barrels a day with a projectied increase of 5 millon barrels a day with each passing year. if we drill in alaska in 10 years we will get 5 million barrels a day from the alaska oil and world demand will be at 140 million barrels a day so the effect on price for gas will be insignificant, plus the fact we will have messed up a large tract of wilderness.

[ddog]

Got to agree with you there King - why us oil investors should be paid handsomely for the risks that we are taking in the marketplace with our excess capital.

Those Dim/Commies never get that we rich guys are floating their social programs. I can't wait for the govt to pull the plug on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid - who the hell wants to keep pouring money into these black holes; we could be investing in stuff that grows our capital!

:ThmbUp:

You got a little sarcasim fit going here or if you are serious you must have inherited money or be THE luckiest guy on earth to have any left.

You would otherwise understand that those program you are floating are the equivalent of paying protection money to the mob and I mean MOB.

You wouldn't last a week behind your gate if those stopped overnight.

Anytime one agrees with that Kingy dude, you are in(under?) dangerous water.

:lol:

[prospector]

one has to weigh the economic benefits of destroying the environment versus preserving the environment for future generations
it is said americans can't see past their nose
at present the world consumes 85 million barrels a day with a projectied increase of 5 millon barrels a day with each passing year. if we drill in alaska in 10 years we will get 5 million barrels a day from the alaska oil and world demand will be at 140 million barrels a day so the effect on price for gas will be insignificant, plus the fact we will have messed up a large tract of wilderness.

that's so much B.S...
the amount of space for drilling is akin to a postage stamp on a football field, besides...deer are tasty

DRILL HERE
DRILL NOW!

[wonatthewire1]

You got a little sarcasim fit going here or if you are serious you must have inherited money or be THE luckiest guy on earth to have any left.

You would otherwise understand that those program you are floating are the equivalent of paying protection money to the mob and I mean MOB.

You wouldn't last a week behind your gate if those stopped overnight.

Anytime one agrees with that Kingy dude, you are in(under?) dangerous water.

:lol:

Luckiest guy on earth to have any left?

Not quite understanding the intent of your sentence. See it is actually very easy to be quite wealthy in the USofA.

And here is the secret - Spend less than you make and invest the rest. Takes time and yes, effort to accomplish! But it can be done.

;)

I noticed that this year when doing our taxes (do them yourself and you have an understanding of the tax code and how much you are putting out there for the govt (all govt)), I noticed that we paid more in federal income taxes this year than I made for the entire year gross salary when I was 26 years old! A lot of hard work in between - but dim/commies (and a lot of Repukes) don't quite understand that you can do it when you focus in on what you want.

When my father asked the govt to keep the SS money as he thought it should go to people that could use it, he was ignored by the govt in Washingtoon. So he sends the money out to a list of charities on a rolling 12 month basis - he feels like he's contributing to what he wants to

[ddog]

The drilling will take place someday.

But the bs is that Anwar is a JOKE , yes a JOKE!
Little more than a fund raising gimmick by small shells of men called us pols.

The real oil is not there, we need to be where the REAL OIL is , but we don't seem to have the stones.

GO WHERE THE VAST DEPOSITS ARE , DON'T FIDDLE WHILE US BURNS.

[ddog]

Luckiest guy on earth to have any left?

Not quite understanding the intent of your sentence. See it is actually very easy to be quite wealthy in the USofA.

And here is the secret - Spend less than you make and invest the rest. Takes time and yes, effort to accomplish! But it can be done.

;)

I noticed that this year when doing our taxes (do them yourself and you have an understanding of the tax code and how much you are putting out there for the govt (all govt)), I noticed that we paid more in federal income taxes this year than I made for the entire year gross salary when I was 26 years old! A lot of hard work in between - but dim/commies (and a lot of Repukes) don't quite understand that you can do it when you focus in on what you want.

When my father asked the govt to keep the SS money as he thought it should go to people that could use it, he was ignored by the govt in Washingtoon. So he sends the money out to a list of charities on a rolling 12 month basis - he feels like he's contributing to what he wants to

I am fine , but thanks for the tips.

The point still stands, those progrms are actually helping you not hurting you.
It's strange so many otherwise smart investors don't realize that.

[Marshall Bennett]

one has to weigh the economic benefits of destroying the environment versus preserving the environment for future generations
it is said americans can't see past their nose
at present the world consumes 85 million barrels a day with a projectied increase of 5 millon barrels a day with each passing year. if we drill in alaska in 10 years we will get 5 million barrels a day from the alaska oil and world demand will be at 140 million barrels a day so the effect on price for gas will be insignificant, plus the fact we will have messed up a large tract of wilderness.
Its as if we're drilling using 1950's technology . Accidents that actually harm the environment to any significant degree happen about as often as the crash of a large airliner . To automatically assume we'll be destroying the environment is quite presumptuous .

[acorn54]

the current uproar over to drill in alaska is based on people's anger at the present price of gas, i still see the anger misplaced if we are only going to get 5 million barrels a day from alaska in 10 years and the oil consumption will be 140 million barrels.

[ezrabrooks]

Its as if we're drilling using 1950's technology . Accidents that actually harm the environment to any significant degree happen about as often as the crash of a large airliner . To automatically assume we'll be destroying the environment is quite presumptuous .

In the last ten (10) years there have been over 1500 wells drilled in Tarrant County, Texas, with a large percentage being in the city limits of Fort Worth. Neighborhoods are banding together to get top prices, and encourage drilling.

[boxcar]

The Head Dimwit in the House wants to remove another freedom from us -- the right to choose our... Well, see for yourselves.

Failed energy policies? Not any more! :rolleyes:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e-LOtKIIKcg

Boxcar

[Tom]

This is a congress that needs to be overthrown.

These people are dangerous wingnuts.

I say, collect these CFL bulbs and break them on the sidewalks in DC - by the MILLIONS. Throw them at your representatives, at their children and wife, in thier drive ways - congress wants theses things, give them to them. Did I say thier children? he he, he he, he he.......yes, I did. We will all have congress mandated weapons and we should be prepared to used them. Think of the total chaos we could cause at the Dumocrat convention (hint hint). At the capital, at the airports in DC......boggled the mind.

Oh yes, and they are all made in China! And it will take 5 new large factories to make up the new demand. And every one of them will contribute to greenhouse gases. Did anyone tell congess that China doesn't care about the environement? Or American jobs, which congress just eliminated many.

This Algore and his followers - total morons at work. These are the same mindless dolts who say drilling for our own oil is a waste of time!

[Secretariat]

You do realize that oil companies have been given billions in corporate welfare for years. They've been given billions of public lands for drilling and have not drilled on those lands. Governemnt has even given them funds to build new refineries, and yet they have in fact shut down smaller refineries.

Now with all of this demand in gas is down, Americans are driving fewer miles than last year, and yet the price continues to rise.

To top it all "profits" at Exxon Mobil and the gang continue to rise. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then what is it?

Get real.

[Tom]

And the oil companies are re-investing over 78% of thier profits. Oil prices are high world-wide. Get real yourself. When welfare reciprients start contributing something back, I'll worry about corporate welfare. :lol:

[Marshall Bennett]

And the oil companies are re-investing over 78% of thier profits. Oil prices are high world-wide. Get real yourself. When welfare reciprients start contributing something back, I'll worry about corporate welfare. :lol:
...and with the cost of public transpotation expected to double within the next year in many large cities , most of them will either be walking or staying home , not that they don't do that already .

[ezrabrooks]

You do realize that oil companies have been given billions in corporate welfare for years. They've been given billions of public lands for drilling and have not drilled on those lands. Governemnt has even given them funds to build new refineries, and yet they have in fact shut down smaller refineries.

Now with all of this demand in gas is down, Americans are driving fewer miles than last year, and yet the price continues to rise.

To top it all "profits" at Exxon Mobil and the gang continue to rise. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then what is it?

Get real.

Get real? Yeah, they are giving those off shore tracts away... Have you seen the bids on them? No welfare there. Billions of acres? As to onshore, (wildcat) lands, any U.S. citizens has the right to file on them. Also, there is a limit as to the amount of Federal acreage any entity (or person) can hold. Cuss the majors if you want, as, like any big corporation, they are not without fault...but get your facts straight.

[Secretariat]

Get real? Yeah, they are giving those off shore tracts away... Have you seen the bids on them? No welfare there. Billions of acres? As to onshore, (wildcat) lands, any U.S. citizens has the right to file on them. Also, there is a limit as to the amount of Federal acreage any entity (or person) can hold. Cuss the majors if you want, as, like any big corporation, they are not without fault...but get your facts straight.

The five biggest oil companies made $123.3 billion last year, the five biggest pharmaceutical companies earned $48.2 billion and the top five defense contractors earned $15.5 billion.

1. Corporate welfare for these five biggest companies.

http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/05/06/big-oil-welfare/

2. The oil companies current reserves they are not drilling on.

http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/06/18/bush-offshore-oil/

"Congress — which was under Republican control for most of the Bush presidency — is not blocking drilling. The number of off- and on-shore drilling permits has exploded in recent years, going from 3,802 five years ago to 7,561 in 2007. Between 1999 and 2007, the number of drilling permits issued for development of public lands increased by more than 361%.

In fact, Congress and this administration have already opened the floodgates for more oil and gas drilling in the years to come. Since 2002, the number of permits issued has greatly outstripped the number of new wells drilled. In the last four years, the Bureau of Land Management has issued 28,776 permits to drill on public land; yet, in that same time, 18,954 wells were actually drilled. That means that companies have stockpiled nearly 10,000 extra permits to drill that they are not using to increase domestic production."

A good op-ed pieceon this as well:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/opinion/19thu1.html

3. Refineries

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/275/

The truth of the matter in terms of refineries is not that it is a government problem, but a free enterprise one.

"As a 2005 New York Times story about a company's attempt to build the first new refinery in the country since 1976 summarized:

NY Times: The business of turning crude oil into gasoline, jet fuel or heating oil has rarely been a lucrative proposition. It has dismal profit margins compared with its more glamorous cousin, exploration. It is highly cyclical and fairly unpredictable, because demand for gasoline swings sharply by season.

Ten years after the company first decided to try to build the refinery and seek permits, it still lacks enough investors and hasn't begun construction. "

This is why some Democrats are now calling for the nationalization of refineries because oil companies simply don't want to pay for new larger refineries.

4. The strategic oil reserve.

Even while people are hurting dramtically this summer Bush still refuses to release the almost full strategic oil reserve. Release of this would create an immediate lowering of the gas price rather than some cockeyed gas holiday idea. It is the height of hypocrisy to ask for drilling in ANWR where any effect on gas wouldn't be until 2020, when he can immediately impact the cost of gas using this tool.


It is amazing to me in this "let big oil rape the public" WH that people still defend these people. All I can say is buy your 10 mpg Hummer, fill up your tank with 4-5 gas, and keep voting for neocon idiots.

[wonatthewire1]

The five biggest oil companies made $123.3 billion last year, the five biggest pharmaceutical companies earned $48.2 billion and the top five defense contractors earned $15.5 billion.

1. Corporate welfare for these five biggest companies.

http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/05/06/big-oil-welfare/



Hi Sec,

Me again!

You didn't put down or link to how many people are employed in those businesses, contributing to the local and world economies. Plus, the amount of taxes that they and their employers paid to prop up the "social programs" in their respective countries.

Please do some homework and become fair and balanced!

Thanks in advance!

Won

[ezrabrooks]

The five biggest oil companies made $123.3 billion last year, the five biggest pharmaceutical companies earned $48.2 billion and the top five defense contractors earned $15.5 billion.

1. Corporate welfare for these five biggest companies.

http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/05/06/big-oil-welfare/

2. The oil companies current reserves they are not drilling on.

http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/06/18/bush-offshore-oil/

"Congress — which was under Republican control for most of the Bush presidency — is not blocking drilling. The number of off- and on-shore drilling permits has exploded in recent years, going from 3,802 five years ago to 7,561 in 2007. Between 1999 and 2007, the number of drilling permits issued for development of public lands increased by more than 361%.

In fact, Congress and this administration have already opened the floodgates for more oil and gas drilling in the years to come. Since 2002, the number of permits issued has greatly outstripped the number of new wells drilled. In the last four years, the Bureau of Land Management has issued 28,776 permits to drill on public land; yet, in that same time, 18,954 wells were actually drilled. That means that companies have stockpiled nearly 10,000 extra permits to drill that they are not using to increase domestic production."

A good op-ed pieceon this as well:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/opinion/19thu1.html

3. Refineries

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/275/

The truth of the matter in terms of refineries is not that it is a government problem, but a free enterprise one.

"As a 2005 New York Times story about a company's attempt to build the first new refinery in the country since 1976 summarized:

NY Times: The business of turning crude oil into gasoline, jet fuel or heating oil has rarely been a lucrative proposition. It has dismal profit margins compared with its more glamorous cousin, exploration. It is highly cyclical and fairly unpredictable, because demand for gasoline swings sharply by season.

Ten years after the company first decided to try to build the refinery and seek permits, it still lacks enough investors and hasn't begun construction. "

This is why some Democrats are now calling for the nationalization of refineries because oil companies simply don't want to pay for new larger refineries.

4. The strategic oil reserve.

Even while people are hurting dramtically this summer Bush still refuses to release the almost full strategic oil reserve. Release of this would create an immediate lowering of the gas price rather than some cockeyed gas holiday idea. It is the height of hypocrisy to ask for drilling in ANWR where any effect on gas wouldn't be until 2020, when he can immediately impact the cost of gas using this tool.


It is amazing to me in this "let big oil rape the public" WH that people still defend these people. All I can say is buy your 10 mpg Hummer, fill up your tank with 4-5 gas, and keep voting for neocon idiots.

Here go again with the use of neocon...if you are going to use a made up word, use one that doesn't have a prior meaning.

On one hand you say that the oil companies (whoever that is) are not drilling on federal lands, and then you post an article that says permit activity on federal lands is at an all time high... Then you make some statement that the government estimates that most of the known reserves are located on lands already available for lease...Duh? Why do that have a good idea where reserves are? Because they can only make plausible estimates in areas where reservoir information exists..and that would be areas that have been drilled. You can expect oil and gas certain areas, but, if in fact it is there, and in what quantities, takes a drill bit.

Price may high...but supply at the pump is still there.. You do remember those great Carter years? If the price of oil and gas is so easy to manipulate..why was it so cheap until the 70's? Why did the price go down in the 80's.

Sec.... just another left winger (or is that whiner), baying at the moon, cause he isn't sure what it is. Please note that I don't post links to biased articles. I give you what I know...nothing more. If I was so uninformed on a subject that I had to post reference material, I would just keep my mouth shut.

[Tom]

Sec, who do suppose drives the economy?
Minimum wage workers?
Welfare leeches?

[Secretariat]

Sec, who do suppose drives the economy?
Minimum wage workers?
Welfare leeches?

Who do I think drives the economy?

China and India.

As to welfare leeches, do you mean the Enrons, Exxon Mobil, and the like?

I hate to use gullible, but rushing to the defense of these robber barons is baffling to me. When will you learn their only loyalty is to themselves and their own pockets?

Interesting graph below.

[boxcar]

Who do I think drives the economy?

China and India.

As to welfare leeches, do you mean the Enrons, Exxon Mobil, and the like?

I hate to use gullible, but rushing to the defense of these robber barons is baffling to me. When will you learn their only loyalty is to themselves and their own pockets?

Oh...you mean just like Big Gov, right?

Boxcar

[Tom]

I hate to use gullible, but rushing to the defense of these robber barons is baffling to me.

Yeah, those evil corporations that provide jobs, pay huge amounts of taxes, fund retirement accounts, ensure energy delivery at the flick of a switch, and then have the gall to expect to make a profit.

How many kilowatts have the third generation unemployed delivered this year?

[boxcar]

Yeah, those evil corporations that provide jobs, pay huge amounts of taxes, fund retirement accounts, ensure energy delivery at the flick of a switch, and then have the gall to expect to make a profit.

How many kilowatts have the third generation unemployed delivered this year?

Libs, look at Tom's points from another perspective: When was the last time Big Gov did any of the above for The People? When was the last time Big Gov put a drop of gasoline in your car? When was the last time Big Gov provided the vehicle you drive to get to and fro? When was the last time Big Gov put a loaf of bread on the table for your family to eat?

If there's any evil entity here it's Big Gov because the State tend to suck the lifeblood out of the People -- both in terms of our freedoms and our money.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Ditto, Boxcar.

In some mystical, drug induced mental state, the libs just have one idea - penalize success and reward failure.

[JustRalph]

Ditto, Boxcar.

In some mystical, drug induced mental state, the libs just have one idea - penalize success and reward failure.


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[spamp]

I agree

[JustRalph]

Nancy Pelosi's new movie...............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9dU4G-qL8

Ek9dU4G-qL8

[46zilzal]

Ditto, Boxcar.

In some mystical, drug induced mental state, the libs just have one idea - penalize success and reward failure.
Yes just like all the clowns who were disgraced and ejected from Congress? It is not exclusive to a single party as Abramoff and others have shown.

[Tom]

Yes just like all the clowns who were disgraced and ejected from Congress? It is not exclusive to a single party as Abramoff and others have shown.

Your reply makes no sense. Republicans are not penalizing succes. they reward it. You need to read before your knee-jerk replies. Who did Abramoff penalize for succeeding? :4::6:

[Lefty]

zilly once again, having no good answer to good q, you resort to namecalling
That's all you got, son. For an educated man you come off about as smart as a rock.

[NJ Stinks]

Democrats have a failed agenda? You've got to be kidding.

Republicans have been killing this country for the last 8 years. If that statement is not true, tell me one thing Republicans have done to avoid bankrupting the country and not making things worse for the majority of it's citizens.

When the Dems sweep everything in November, the majority here will be wonder how it ever could happen. I suggest you make an equipment change and take off your blinkers.

At any rate, I look forward to the wailing here come November.

The Democrats have a failed agenda!:D :D :D

[wonatthewire1]

I can't wait for the demonrats to get back in the WH - we need a booming stock market again (like the Klinton years) so make it so America!

;)

[Lefty]

stinks, you better blve they have a failed agenda. Even when we are in an energy crisis they won't do a damn thing positive to alliviate the situation. Clinton put Anwr off limits ten yrs ago. If we had that oil now the wicket wouldn't be so sticky. Obama says inflate your tires. So the energy crisis has basically been the dims fault by saying no to everything except higherr taxes all 'round.
The housing crisis has for the most part been caused by dims loosening all the regs on banks. so "everybody" whether they could afford it or not, could buy a house.
Take off YOUR blinkers.

[JustRalph]

Democrats have a failed agenda? You've got to be kidding.

Republicans have been killing this country for the last 8 years. If that statement is not true, tell me one thing Republicans have done to avoid bankrupting the country and not making things worse for the majority of it's citizens.

When the Dems sweep everything in November, the majority here will be wonder how it ever could happen. I suggest you make an equipment change and take off your blinkers.

At any rate, I look forward to the wailing here come November.

The Democrats have a failed agenda!:D :D :D

We won't wonder how it happen. The way it happens is by abandoning conservative principles, which the so called "Conservative Republicans have done. Some of the assinine things done by Bush and the Repub Congress during the first 4 years of Bush are so beyond the pale of conservative thinking that the country deserves everything it gets. And that "everything" will be a Dem Congress that will be so bad for the country that the real damage and despair will make everyone forget about the Repubs and the Bushies. Even if McCain squeeks out a win, the Dem Congress is going to steamroll him. He is basically a Democrat. So he will be just as responsible. I predict if McCain wins he gets overridden on at least 4 vetos in the first 3 years.

If Barackstar wins, the country dives into a recession (a real whopper of one, not a fake one like they claim we are in now) late in his second year (long enough for the Dem legislation to seriously take effect) and if they pass a socialized healthcare system, Lookout Momma!!! Things are going to go rolling off the rails just in time for the Governor of Alaska to run for President against Barackstar in 2012, and she just might be facing Hillary.........

How is that for a scenario?

[wonatthewire1]

stinks, you better blve they have a failed agenda. Even when we are in an energy crisis they won't do a damn thing positive to alliviate the situation. Clinton put Anwr off limits ten yrs ago. If we had that oil now the wicket wouldn't be so sticky. Obama says inflate your tires. So the energy crisis has basically been the dims fault by saying no to everything except higherr taxes all 'round.
The housing crisis has for the most part been caused by dims loosening all the regs on banks. so "everybody" whether they could afford it or not, could buy a house.
Take off YOUR blinkers.


Lefty, there's no energy crisis.

Where are you getting that from?

Govt on both sides of the aisle loosened the regs on the banks - started w/Reagan; no problem, I understand that there has to be someone to blame. But aside from the "party name" - both parties are exactly the same.

Lefty, check and see how much earl is up in Anwar...the numbers might surprise you

[jognlope]

If 38% of oil companies' profits is going into R&D why don't they tell the public just what exactly the R&D is. Otherwise to me it's "run and duck.'

[JustRalph]

If 38% of oil companies' profits is going into R&D why don't they tell the public just what exactly the R&D is. Otherwise to me it's "run and duck.'


For the same reason that other companies don't reveal company secrets. If you look hard you can find that oil companies are really after the patents on Battery Technology. The newest stuff with capacitors etc.

In fact, the oil companies are in competition with other large companies who are trying to lock up a hold on new tech as it comes down the pipeline. The most interesting one is the huge dollars that Lockheed Martin spent for a stake in "EESTOR" Look them up in Google. Interesting stuff. If it works (apparently Lockheed thinks it will) we may see a "super capacitor" powered car by this time next year. But I doubt it............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor

[Tom]

Look it up. Get an annual report.
Why is it their responsibility to tell you?

[PaceAdvantage]

Democrats have a failed agenda? You've got to be kidding.

Republicans have been killing this country for the last 8 years. If that statement is not true, tell me one thing Republicans have done to avoid bankrupting the country and not making things worse for the majority of it's citizens.Hey man, America gave Dems a mandate in 2006....don't you remember? They have been running both houses of Congress for almost two years now...

What have they done with their "American mandate?" What have they got to show for it? How long are you going to blame Republicans for the ineffectiveness of Democrats to achieve anything of substance?

If Congress voted tomorrow to authorize expanded drilling in the US, oil prices would most certainly take another leg down, at least another $20 a barrel in the immediate future, guaranteed, which would bring prices down at the pump by at least another 30 cents or so per gallon.

Over a 3-5 year horizon, minus any new Mid-East wars, oil would probably settle around $70/barrel, and gas would be under $3/gallon at the pump once again.

[JustRalph]

The Obama Nation is not happy with him............adult language at the link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6572830

[jognlope]

Tom,

Here is why it's their responsibility to tell us up front. Because high gas prices effect all Americans who drive, and because the oil companies have forced an immediate and pressing problem which affects the morale of the country. So, yes they should be on the news, on morning shows, explaining where this 38% of profits is going.

But it's all moot as long as a Republican president and congress are in bed with them.

[Tom]

Tom,

Here is why it's their responsibility to tell us up front. Because high gas prices effect all Americans who drive, and because the oil companies have forced an immediate and pressing problem which affects the morale of the country. So, yes they should be on the news, on morning shows, explaining where this 38% of profits is going.

But it's all moot as long as a Republican president and congress are in bed with them.

Last time I looked, it was a free country. What you suggest violates that premise. I reject your idea that the oil companies have forced the problem.
How about we make the DEM congress PROVE some of their allegations for starters? Proof is not the BS that UpChuck Schummer spews out. How about we look at the ridiculous gas blend laws many state impose on the refineries that drive up prices?

How about we have the great minds in the DEM congress explin the price of oil world-wide? Better yet, how about he DEMS in congress get their worthless butts BACK in session and join the REPUBS who refused to go on VACATION and stayed behind to address the energy issues?

[Tom]

If Congress voted tomorrow to authorize expanded drilling in the US, oil prices would most certainly take another leg down, at least another $20 a barrel in the immediate future, guaranteed, which would bring prices down at the pump by at least another 30 cents or so per gallon.

Over a 3-5 year horizon, minus any new Mid-East wars, oil would probably settle around $70/barrel, and gas would be under $3/gallon at the pump once again.

Since Bush uttered the D word (drill) gas here has dropped to a low of $3.88 a gallon!
My president, hcap, serving me! :lol:

What do you suppose the dems fleeing the issue to go on vacation will do to the price of oil?

[Boats]

Since Bush uttered the D word (drill) gas here has dropped to a low of $3.88 a gallon!
My president, hcap, serving me! :lol:

Bush is very religious.
http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur45832.cfm

[ddog]

Hey man, America gave Dems a mandate in 2006....don't you remember? They have been running both houses of Congress for almost two years now...

What have they done with their "American mandate?" What have they got to show for it? How long are you going to blame Republicans for the ineffectiveness of Democrats to achieve anything of substance?

If Congress voted tomorrow to authorize expanded drilling in the US, oil prices would most certainly take another leg down, at least another $20 a barrel in the immediate future, guaranteed, which would bring prices down at the pump by at least another 30 cents or so per gallon.

Over a 3-5 year horizon, minus any new Mid-East wars, oil would probably settle around $70/barrel, and gas would be under $3/gallon at the pump once again.

Which is all beside the point.
You want to force less oil to be used.
That's the good part of high oil prices.

the oil boys, guess what, they can't drill what they got now.
Much less any new stuff.

You think that mid-east wars are over??? since when? :bang:

You think that drilling in ANwar :lol: is going to provide any help?
:lol:

You think that global demand for oil is not going to increase faster than supply even if drills were sunk everywhere?
:lol:

lordy, lordy , the delusional state in this country.

I don't see this so called energy crisis, I have not noticed any gas or oil lines??

To hope for prices to fall or to pass some misguided regs to try to force them to fall is creating false incentives, exactly what we have been masters at for the last 30-40 years.

This WILL stop either by choice or force, see housing,financials, etc. etc. to learn this lesson all over again for the 100 time.

We can do things in this country given the proper incentives(free market supply demand higher prices) to cut back on oil use and not hurt our country at all.
it would in fact make us stronger , if only we had more with the gumption to face reality and plan for not the "keep the faith" all is well best case but the worst case.

Then the best is a bonus.
As in investing , protect the downside.

get serious or bounce along at the whim of others.

[ddog]

Since Bush uttered the D word (drill) gas here has dropped to a low of $3.88 a gallon!
My president, hcap, serving me! :lol:

What do you suppose the dems fleeing the issue to go on vacation will do to the price of oil?



check inventories. cover dates - demand decrease - seasonality.
At least you will be in the ballpark.

those are normally a little better than the "faith based" i heard it through the grapevine rationale.
markets are smart , they say, except the markets now think Bush will start drilling next month so they priced that in today for a barrell that could be produced in ten years?

Wow, who knew those contracts were running out there?


Yeah, sure.

[JustRalph]

3.78 just north of charlotte on I-85

[Tom]

Where the hell are you guys getting this faith based nonsense from?
Bush specifically called for off-shore drilling and the speculators backed off.

[wonatthewire1]

If 38% of oil companies' profits is going into R&D why don't they tell the public just what exactly the R&D is. Otherwise to me it's "run and duck.'


How much was paid out to shareholders in the form of dividends?

I see a lot of crying about oil company profits, then the same dudes using a ladder to climb up in a Land Rover, a Nissan Titan or a F350...

If there's going to be crying, then get a Yaris to do something about it

[wonatthewire1]

3.78 just north of charlotte on I-85


It was 369 this morning at the Gulf station

still should be higher, we need more pain!

[Tom]

How much was paid out to shareholders in the form of dividends?



And how many retirement accounts do they feed?

If everyone is so convinced that the Bush people have been in bed with Big Oil, then why hasn't the DEM CONTROLLED CONGRESS done anything about it?

[wonatthewire1]

And how many retirement accounts do they feed?

If everyone is so convinced that the Bush people have been in bed with Big Oil, then why hasn't the DEM CONTROLLED CONGRESS done anything about it?


cuz the Dims are in the same bed too! :)

Could be, just a lot of rhetoric - like most of the hot air that flows out of Washingtoon

Man, them earl dividend checks are on the way - just as good as those Halliburton ones! And a lot more than the wimpy stimulus checks repatriated back to the people by the sleazy govt!

[JustRalph]

If there's going to be crying, then get a Yaris to do something about it

no, you get a yaris and shove it. I think it would fit............with little fanfare :lol:

[wonatthewire1]

no, you get a yaris and shove it. I think it would fit............with little fanfare :lol:


here's 1 for you JR

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20080730/capt.cps.ndl92.300708225822.photo00.photo.default-512x374.jpg?x=400&y=292&sig=A0z2SKaz.J3JdZEZ7WDqVA--

coming to a town in OH near you - if there is any equity left in house prices there

[JustRalph]

you won't catch me in one............. :lol:

I think I scraped one of those off the Windshield of my Tahoe today.......

[NJ Stinks]

From ExxonMobil's website:
__________________________________________________ __________
At year-end 2007, ExxonMobil’s worldwide workforce numbered nearly 81,000 employees, of which about 37 percent were located within the United States and 63 percent internationally.
__________________________________________________ ___________

81,000 x 37% = 29,970 employees

ExxonMobil made $40.6 Billion in 2007.

ExxonMobil was the 56th biggest employer in the US in 2007 behind companies like Emerson Electric, Sara Lee, Ford Motor Company, etc. The biggest moneymaker was the 56th biggest employer if you include international employees. Exclude international employees and ExxonMobil ranked closer to 200th. (Source http://www.myglobalcareer.com/my-global-career-500/?offset=200&industry=ALL&country=United%20States&sort=ranking )

You can't touch your 401(k) until your 59.5 years old. Is paying $4 a gallon now worth a pie in the sky at 59.5? Depends on how old you are, I guess.

But somehow we're supposed to be grateful for all that ExxonMobil is doing for America? I'm not buying it.:ThmbDown:

[JustRalph]

They are the 17th largest oil company in the world.


Why is it that you hippies always go after Exxon........there are 16 others in front of them...............

http://www.petrostrategies.org/Links/Worlds_Largest_Oil_and_Gas_Companies_Sites.htm

[lamboguy]

george bush will bust you every single time, yet its always the democrat's fault!!

and let me tell you this, he is an equal opportunity buster, he will bust democrats and republicans. he is like a bad horse trainer. he will get you every time.

[Tom]

Now that was an intelligent, well thought out, informative post.

[PaceAdvantage]

You think that mid-east wars are over??? since when? :bang:

You think that drilling in ANwar :lol: is going to provide any help?
:lol:

You think that global demand for oil is not going to increase faster than supply even if drills were sunk everywhere?
:lol:

lordy, lordy , the delusional state in this country.Conveniently, you did not address my point.

You don't think that if Congress authorizes more drilling that the price of oil won't react as I've outlined? :lol:

[boxcar]

It was 369 this morning at the Gulf station

still should be higher, we need more pain!

Your every wish is the Dems' command. We have Mizzzz Pelosi to thank for this stonewalling tactic when she called a halt to proceedings when an energy bill vote was being called for. She simply closed up shop and told everyone to take a vacation. This is what I love about caring, compassionate Libs: They always have The People's best interests at heart. :rolleyes:

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/01/breaking-pelosi-reportedly-moves-to-shut-down-house-revolt/

Of course, the Party of Stupid is too stupid to know how to make hay out of this move by Madam Evil.

Boxcar

[Secretariat]

From ExxonMobil's website:
__________________________________________________ __________
At year-end 2007, ExxonMobil’s worldwide workforce numbered nearly 81,000 employees, of which about 37 percent were located within the United States and 63 percent internationally.
__________________________________________________ ___________

81,000 x 37% = 29,970 employees

ExxonMobil made $40.6 Billion in 2007.

ExxonMobil was the 56th biggest employer in the US in 2007 behind companies like Emerson Electric, Sara Lee, Ford Motor Company, etc. The biggest moneymaker was the 56th biggest employer if you include international employees. Exclude international employees and ExxonMobil ranked closer to 200th. (Source http://www.myglobalcareer.com/my-global-career-500/?offset=200&industry=ALL&country=United%20States&sort=ranking )

You can't touch your 401(k) until your 59.5 years old. Is paying $4 a gallon now worth a pie in the sky at 59.5? Depends on how old you are, I guess.

But somehow we're supposed to be grateful for all that ExxonMobil is doing for America? I'm not buying it.:ThmbDown:

Not too many people are..except gullible ones.

The truth is drilling offshore or in ANWR provides no real tangible relief until 2015 at the earliest, and that is if they decdie to actually drill there and find anything. But even more importantly it does nothing to work toward the weening off of carbon fuels. It does what the Bush adminstration has always done, puts all painful decisions for a future generation. This is an administration that doesn't even want to raise MPG CAFE standards. Something even Jimmy Carter pushed for and John Warner attested he was right about.

As Kerry stated on MTP it is simply a fraud on the American public to stoke the bleeif that somehow this will do something. It won't. We only have about 5% reserves and import so much more than that. The idea of energy independence cannot rest with potential oil reserves in Alaska or the coastlines. It needs a "real" forward looking solution.

Isn't it funny that despite billions of fewer miles driven on American roads, we still pay higher gas prices while Exxon makes record profits. Generally, when demand goes down prices go down, and companies drop prices to compete. Instead here's a company who makes huge profits despite lower demand on gasoline.

Anyone who trusts Exxon Mobil to act in the best interests of the American taxpayer I'd like to meet because I've some bridges I'd like to sell to them in Brooklyn. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[JustRalph]

If Bill Clinton and the Dems had not fought the ANWR drilling in the past........we would have 30 million barrels more coming down from Alaska today.

This isn't a short term fix. You just can't wean us off Oil in a few years. IT WON'T HAPPEN! Oil is the lifeblood of our country and our Economy. It makes the world go round. Doing everything possible is the solution. Including Nuclear energy, Solar, Wind.......all of it. But you can see at every corner gas station what the Dems have brought us to. The Dems and their kowtowing to the Enviro-vangelists is costing the country. Those who are suffering the most are the oft stated and exalted constituents of the Dem Party and the left. The poor and downtrodden that the Dems and the Left have been fooling and dragging along for 75 years now, are those who are hurt the most by the Enviro-vangelist movement that has stopped refineries, Drilling in ANWR and Nuclear power from coming online. These same people will be freezing their asses off in 4 to 5 months. I hope that while they huddle under their blankets typing their left wing gobbledygook on the Dem Underground or Daily KOS they might take the time to see past their steaming breath and realize that they follow a ideology that takes them for granted and leads them further and further into the cold dark night. For they are the enablers of the chicanery we have witnessed in the House of Representatives over the last few weeks.

Remember, these are the same people that screamed we should retreat from Iraq because the will of the American people is paramount. The polls showed that 70% of Americans wanted a pullout of Iraq and the Dems strode up and down the aisles of Congress with each new poll, literally screaming for withdraw, because it was the will of the people. Yet, when the polls show 70% of Americans want off-shore drilling and access to ANWR, they ignore the sentiment and turn out the lights on Congress.

They show up on Sunday morning news shows and the Today Show talking about saving the planet. They are rich people who don't give a damn about the price of gas. They are driving cars paid for by taxes and buying gas and traveling on our dime. They are indifferent to the will of the people when it suits their agenda! Just like every other issue............
























































Duplicity Reigns Supreme!!!

[wonatthewire1]

If Bill Clinton and the Dems had not fought the ANWR drilling in the past........we would have 30 million barrels more coming down from Alaska today.

This isn't a short term fix. You just can't wean us off Oil in a few years. IT WON'T HAPPEN! Oil is the lifeblood of our country and our Economy. It makes the world go round. Doing everything possible is the solution. Including Nuclear energy, Solar, Wind.......all of it. But you can see at every corner gas station what the Dems have brought us to. The Dems and their kowtowing to the Enviro-vangelists is costing the country. Those who are suffering the most are the oft stated and exalted constituents of the Dem Party and the left. The poor and downtrodden that the Dems and the Left have been fooling and dragging along for 75 years now, are those who are hurt the most by the Enviro-vangelist movement that has stopped refineries, Drilling in ANWR and Nuclear power from coming online. These same people will be freezing their asses off in 4 to 5 months. I hope that while they huddle under their blankets typing their left wing gobbledygook on the Dem Underground or Daily KOS they might take the time to see past their steaming breath and realize that they follow a ideology that takes them for granted and leads them further and further into the cold dark night. For they are the enablers of the chicanery we have witnessed in the House of Representatives over the last few weeks.

Remember, these are the same people that screamed we should retreat from Iraq because the will of the American people is paramount. The polls showed that 70% of Americans wanted a pullout of Iraq and the Dems strode up and down the aisles of Congress with each new poll, literally screaming for withdraw, because it was the will of the people. Yet, when the polls show 70% of Americans want off-shore drilling and access to ANWR, they ignore the sentiment and turn out the lights on Congress.

They show up on Sunday morning news shows and the Today Show talking about saving the planet. They are rich people who don't give a damn about the price of gas. They are driving cars paid for by taxes and buying gas and traveling on our dime. They are indifferent to the will of the people when it suits their agenda! Just like every other issue............
Duplicity Reigns Supreme!!!



Besides, how am I going to fill up the Yukon, the Expedition, the 740i and the Jag all in one morning and take the Durango out for a spin?

Passed by the Toyota dealership this afternoon - they have a sign up "Got no more room for SUV trade-ins - go to the Nissan lot"

That's telling 'em.

And if we leave Iraq now, how is the French petroleum company going to get that oil out of there and get it over to France for consumption. Too bad we didn't get in on that no bid contract. And those Dutch/Brit pigs over at Royal Dutch Shell have to be salivating at the opportunity to pick up Iraqi oil without having to bid on it and get the US of A armed forces to clear the way!

Whatta swell bunch of guys we are

:faint:

[PaceAdvantage]

The truth is drilling offshore or in ANWR provides no real tangible relief until 2015 at the earliest, and that is if they decdie to actually drill there and find anything.This is absolutely not true. Even the mere discussion of this topic has had the effect of dropping oil prices about 15% lately. Oil was in the mid $140s a scant few weeks ago ago, and today it was down to $120.

Gas at the pump has been dropping noticably around here....from a high of around $4.30 or so only a few weeks ago, to under $4 today.

Imagine what would happen if they formally institute more offshore drilling. The speculators will all be caught going for the exits at once....it could prove quite dramatic.

[NJ Stinks]

I am going to say this slowly because it must be difficult to comprehend.

The Democratic Congress presently in Washington is powerless to pass legislation. Why (you may not want to know)? Because there are not at least 60 Democratic senators. Why is that important? Because it means the Democrats cannot override a presidential veto on any bill Dems propose without the approval of Republicans senators.

It's called checks and balances. You can look it up.

Or you can just make things up as you go along. You know - things like:
__________________________________________________ ________________

"Hey man, America gave Dems a mandate in 2006....don't you remember? They have been running both houses of Congress for almost two years now...

What have they done with their "American mandate?" What have they got to show for it? How long are you going to blame Republicans for the ineffectiveness of Democrats to achieve anything of substance? - Paceadvantage on page 7 of this thread
__________________________________________________ ______________
or

"If everyone is so convinced that the Bush people have been in bed with Big Oil, then why hasn't the DEM CONTROLLED CONGRESS done anything about it?" - Tom on page 8 of this thread
__________________________________________________ ________________

If the Dems get the required control in November and still don't do anything, I will agree they are useless. Until then, it's like baseball. You can't score when you're playing the field.

[lsbets]

What's with all these excuses that the Dems can't do anything because they don't have 60 Senators? The Rep Congress with Clinton passed what they wanted and got Clinton to sign a lot of it, and the Dem Congress at the end of Reagan and Bush I managed to pass what they wanted and get the President to sign a lot of it.

The Congress is powerless, they are incompetent, and only a small handful of diehard believers buy into the 60 Senators excuse. If they offered anything worthwhile they would easily pick up 5-10 Rep votes in the Senate, but the sad fact is they offer nothing but excuses.

[hcap]

This is absolutely not true. Even the mere discussion of this topic has had the effect of dropping oil prices about 15% lately. Oil was in the mid $140s a scant few weeks ago ago, and today it was down to $120.

Gas at the pump has been dropping noticably around here....from a high of around $4.30 or so only a few weeks ago, to under $4 today.

Imagine what would happen if they formally institute more offshore drilling. The speculators will all be caught going for the exits at once....it could prove quite dramatic.We are driving less. Supply and demand accounts for most of the drop. Meanwhile youse guys are hysterical over tire gauges.

"Obama's actual comment last week was:

...we could save all the oil they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires, and getting regular tune-ups. You could actually save just as much.

http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/18/eia-bombshell-offshore-drilling-would-not-have-a-significant-impact-on-domestic-crude-oil-and-natural-gas-production-or-prices-before-2030/

" Keep your tires properly inflated, for example, and you can save up to 12 cents a gallon. Compare that immediate savings from that single tip, with what coastal and Arctic National Wildlife Refuge drilling combined would get you two decades from now: 6 cents a gallon. And that's being generous, because Bush's Energy Department says we can't expect any impact on prices from coastal drilling until the year 2030."
.................................................. ..............................................

"....The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) recently did a detailed study of the likely outcome of offshore drilling for their Annual Energy Outlook 2007, “Impacts of Increased Access to Oil and Natural Gas Resources in the Lower 48 Federal Outer Continental Shelf (OCS).” The sobering conclusion:

The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030.

And the impact of the projected 7% (!) increase in lower-48 oil production that might result in 2030 thanks to opening the OCS is … wait for it …

… any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant."

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html


.................................................. ..................................................

Hey maybe if we passed strict laws prohibiting the usual repug gasbags from emitting all those hot gases out into empty space and recycled those same gases---we could do even better mileage wise

[hcap]

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1829354,00.html?cnn=yes


The Tire-Gauge Solution: No Joke
Monday, Aug. 04, 2008 By MICHAEL GRUNWALD

How out of touch is Barack Obama? He's so out of touch that he suggested that if all Americans inflated their tires properly and took their cars for regular tune-ups, they could save as much oil as new offshore drilling would produce. Gleeful Republicans have made this their daily talking point; Rush Limbaugh is having a field day; and the Republican National Committee is sending tire gauges labeled "Barack Obama's Energy Plan" to Washington reporters.

But who's really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right.

[hcap]

What's with all these excuses that the Dems can't do anything because they don't have 60 Senators? The Rep Congress with Clinton passed what they wanted and got Clinton to sign a lot of it, and the Dem Congress at the end of Reagan and Bush I managed to pass what they wanted and get the President to sign a lot of it.

The Congress is powerless, they are incompetent, and only a small handful of diehard believers buy into the 60 Senators excuse. If they offered anything worthwhile they would easily pick up 5-10 Rep votes in the Senate, but the sad fact is they offer nothing but excuses.Yeah you are right. The repugs are better at gaming the system. I wish the spineless Dems were as ruthless. But I guess ethics or acting in the peoples interest, gets in the way.
Also stupidity.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/18218.html

Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007

Senate tied in knots by filibusters
More on this Story

By Margaret Talev | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON — This year Senate Republicans are threatening filibusters to block more legislation than ever before, a pattern that's rooted in — and could increase — the pettiness and dysfunction in Congress.

The trend has been evolving for 30 years. The reasons behind it are too complex to pin on one party. But it has been especially pronounced since the Democrats' razor-thin win in last year's election, giving them effectively a 51-49 Senate majority, and the Republicans' exile to the minority.

Seven months into the current two-year term, the Senate has held 42 "cloture" votes aimed at shutting off extended debate — filibusters, or sometimes only the threat of one — and moving to up-or-down votes on contested legislation. Under Senate rules that protect a minority's right to debate, these votes require a 60-vote supermajority in the 100-member Senate.


http://media.mcclatchydc.com/smedia/2007/07/20/16/317-20070720-FILIBUSTERS.small.prod_affiliate.91.jpg



A chart a bit more recent.........

http://www.ourfuture.org/files/images/Cloture-vote-chart-052808-fr.gif

[lsbets]

Same thing I said when the Dems were threatening fillibusters on everything a couple of years ago: How many actual fillibusters ahve there been? None. If you want to lead, call the bluff and make them fillibuster - Strom THurmond style, how long did he go? Over 24 hours. Make them do it. Until then, the "threat" of a filibuster is a convenient copout.

The fact is every other time we have had split control of Congress and the WH without a supermajority in the Senate, Congress has still been able to enact a large part of their agenda. The problem for the Dems is they have no agenda beyond Bushisbad. Your leaders are incompetent and devoid of ideas Hcap, they have nothing to offer but excuses.

[Tom]

The only thing on their agenda right now is vacation.
Congress is a total joke.
The dems are worthless.

[Secretariat]

If Bill Clinton and the Dems had not fought the ANWR drilling in the past........we would have 30 million barrels more coming down from Alaska today.



A. You have no idea of that. It’s speculation. You’re quoting Haley Barbour. How much does Saudi Arabia actually pump in a day collectively? About nine “million” a day on the richest oil fields in the world.

B. If I’m not mistaken from 2001 to 2007 you had a Republican majority in both the House and Senate and an oil President and Vice President and were unable to do anything regarding ANWR. Now if you want to blame a President from 8 years ago, and a Democratic Congress for doing nothing over the last year and a half. How on earth do you justify the Republican President and leadership doing nothing for six years prior?

C. This administration has done little to nothing to raise MPG standards which would significantly reduce our dependence on foreign oil making the need to even drill at ANWR a moot point.

You’re rationale is ludicrous.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''

"What's with all these excuses that the Dems can't do anything because they don't have 60 Senators? " - Isbets

"What's with all these excuses that the Rethugs can't do anything because they do have 60 Senators?" - Sec, ANWR discussion from 2001-2006

[Tom]

This rational is not - we are getting zero, xip, nadda, thanks to Billy boy.
Whatever we would be getting, we are not because of a stupid policy.
Why not drill our own oil? there isno rational argument not to.
so it takes 10 years. If we start next year, it will be 11. Do you not buy a home because it will take 30 years to pay it off?
That 10 year sound byte is ridiculous.

[delayjf]

How on earth do you justify the Republican President and leadership doing nothing for six years prior?

Because the recent spike in oil prices has only now motivated the US to develop our own oil reserves. If gas was a dollar a gallon, we would not be having this discussion.

[Secretariat]

Because the recent spike in oil prices has only now motivated the US to develop our own oil reserves. If gas was a dollar a gallon, we would not be having this discussion.

Sorry, you can't blame Clinton from eight plus years ago, but excuse GW and SIX years of a Republican majority on both houses, because only now there are recent spikes. Sorry, JR's rationale is ludicrous.

[Lefty]

Concentrating on the here and now, Pelosi won't even allow and up or down vote on drilling. That's democracy?

[46zilzal]

Your leaders are incompetent and devoid of ideas Hcap, they have nothing to offer but excuses.
ANOTHER ONE who thinks it's a game: US vs. them

[Tom]

It's not a game, but is is us vs them when it comes to dems.
BTW, what do YOU pay a gallon?
Must he under $2, right? I mean, up there in the Great White North you are out of reach of that Evil Bush/Chenney oil conspiracy, right?

[46zilzal]

Gas os sold by the liter here. You should know that

[delayjf]

Sorry, you can't blame Clinton from eight plus years ago, but excuse GW and SIX years of a Republican majority on both houses, because only now there are recent spikes. Sorry, JR's rationale is ludicrous.

I don't blame Clinton or Bush, my point is that as long as gas prices were low there was no motivation on anyones part to drill in Anwar. Fast forward, 10 years latter and it sure would have been nice had we approved the drilling. Now was it the correct decision not to drill? Admittedly with hind sight, the answer is no, we would be better off by drilling, which is what Bush wanted to do all alone - and now he has been proven correct.

[Tom]

Gas os sold by the liter here. You should know that

Duh. Yes, but you still purchase amounts taht can be converted to gallons for a comparative price. You miss Medical Math 101 or what?

[Secretariat]

.

I don't blame Clinton or Bush, my point is that as long as gas prices were low there was no motivation on anyones part to drill in Anwar. Fast forward, 10 years latter and it sure would have been nice had we approved the drilling. Now was it the correct decision not to drill? Admittedly with hind sight, the answer is no, we would be better off by drilling, which is what Bush wanted to do all alone - and now he has been proven correct.

I don't think so at all. ANWR is a stop gap at the most. It does nothing to deal significantly with our real problem. Upping CAFE standards would exacerbate the need for ANWR. GW did nothing about that. He ignored it. As he ignored the problem with greenhouse gases with continued reliance on carbon products as his answer for energy.

Both of these candidates touting US oil independence are simply lying to the public. These simply are not enough oil resources in the US. We've got to ween off this and do it now, not putting it off for a future generation.

[Tom]

There is plenty of oil here. It is not the total answer, but not drilling for it is just plain stupid. Think of it as the insurance policy of the future.
We should drilling all we can, using wind and solar where it makes sense, and putting up nuclear reactors like they were Star Bucks. There is no need to wean off oil, just offer alternatives and allow them to find their markets naturally.

[Tom]

Duh. Yes, but you still purchase amounts taht can be converted to gallons for a comparative price. You miss Medical Math 101 or what? I found a figure of 1.30 per liter for a Canadian average....correct me if that is wrong. That converts to around $4.98 a gallon.
So :4::6:, you guys up north should draft George bush to run for president of Canada and maybe he can bring you guys the low gas prices we have here now. :lol:

[delayjf]

I don't think so at all. ANWR is a stop gap at the most. It does nothing to deal significantly with our real problem. Upping CAFE standards would exacerbate the need for ANWR. GW did nothing about that. He ignored it. As he ignored the problem with greenhouse gases with continued reliance on carbon products as his answer for energy.

The world has ingnored Global Warming. Seriously, how many of the countries that signed Kyoto have meet the protocal. Clinton didn't even submit Kyoto for Senate radification. So I disagree with you that all the blame lies at the foot of Pesident Bush - I won't even get into the validity of Global Warming.

If the Demwit's solution is "everybody suck it up until technology catches up" (who know when that will happen) then I wouldn't count on staying in power much longer.

[Tom]

Al Gore has ignored global warming.
All he does is talk about it and profit from it.
But he has done zero himself to fight it.

[JustRalph]

Sec, Delay has made my argument for me. Nicely too.

Why are you so up in arms about Cafe Standards? You want underpowered cars ? You can buy them now. No big deal. Smart Cars and Yaris types are selling like the proverbial Hot Cakes. There needs to be no cafe standard changes..........if the market demands it, they will build it. And they are.......

[Secretariat]

"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."

Barack Hussein Obama

[Lefty]

Pelosi won't allow and up or down vote on drilling but she's telling dems up for reelection it's okay to tell their constituents they support drilling. A do nothing party of hypocrites. No, it's not my dad's old dem party anymore.

[PaceAdvantage]

"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant."

Barack Hussein ObamaNo fair, Obama stealing Suff's lines like that...not an original thought from the man yet! Oh wait, I forgot...inflate those tires! That was original...

[hcap]

The bottom line......

http://www.bartcop.com/gas-compare-808.jpg

Or from the one picture is worth a thousand words department

[RaceBookJoe]

The bottom line......

http://www.bartcop.com/gas-compare-808.jpg

Or from the one picture is worth a thousand words department

Why is everyone complaining...i thought all of you made fortunes with clinton's great economy/bull market.

[Marshall Bennett]

The bottom line......

http://www.bartcop.com/gas-compare-808.jpg

Or from the one picture is worth a thousand words department
This is about as misleading as 98% of your other post . If you were in control of the situation , OPEC would be run by terrorist thugs . What would we be paying at the pump then ?

[boxcar]

No fair, Obama stealing Suff's lines like that...not an original thought from the man yet! Oh wait, I forgot...inflate those tires! That was original...

Yup, in fact not an original thought from any lib on this matter. But don't forget also to use those dangerous mercury-filled bulbs. They're going to make a huge difference. And no plastic bags at the supermarket. Let's not forget that.
And finally, let's all turn off our A/Cs because the entire world knows Americans are addicted to air conditioning.

Finally, if you really want to feel good about yourself today because of how much you're helping to save the planet, go out and hug a tree and make nice to it.

Boxcar

[JustRalph]

And the future plan for America............

http://images.politico.com/global/tire%20gauge.jpg

http://jxymxu7sn5ho9d.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/xcaricature-obama-lyin.jpg

[Tom]

Nice carton, hcap...can you elaborate a bit? I agree with the prices than and now. You are spot on. But I wonder if you could explain to me how those two rascals manage to get it up that high word-wide? I mean, if it was some collusion here at home, I would not expect it to affect Canada, and I just looked that up yesterday - wow! They are worse off than we are!
Did those pranksters test some new ideas out up North as pilot schemes or what? hard to believe two light weight like those guys were able to vamboozle all the other world leaders and pull this thing off.

As always, I am really interested in your informative posts, and hope you can take the time to clear up my confusion on this.

Thanks!

[hcap]

Tom, instability in the Mid East. Brought about primarily thru our invasion of Iraq. If you want to call it collusion go right ahead

Good news lately is demand is down. The good old pocketbook of American consumers clamped down, people bought smaller cars and oil supplies have increased. Although I sometimes post against the abuses of unbridled Capitalism, basic supply and demand principles do work.

[hcap]

And the future plan for America............

http://images.politico.com/global/tire%20gauge.jpg


JR, I have already shown Obama to be correct on the tire pressure issue. As Obama said, proper tire pressure and regular tune ups will save now and then some all gains in energy 10 years from now drilling off shore

[Marshall Bennett]

Tom, instability in the Mid East. Brought about primarily thru our invasion of Iraq. If you want to call it collusion go right ahead

Good news lately is demand is down. The good old pocketbook of American consumers clamped down, people bought smaller cars and oil supplies have increased. Although I sometimes post against the abuses of unbridled Capitalism, basic supply and demand principles do work.
Well there ya go . When oil prices go up its a Republican problem , if they go down and the pressure eases , its simply supply & demand principles . Are you sure the Democrats aren't behind lower prices ? You amaze me .

[hcap]

No great mystery about recent declines. But gas is still way more than if we had not invaded


http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/zFacts-Gasoline-Price.png

[delayjf]

No great mystery about recent declines. But gas is still way more than if we had not invaded

Not sure how you come to that conclusion, Iraq puts more oil on the market today than it did before the war under the UN sanctions.

[Marshall Bennett]

No great mystery about recent declines. But gas is still way more than if we had not invaded


http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/zFacts-Gasoline-Price.png
Go anywhere else in the world ( other than the middle east ) and fill your tank up with gas , come back here and you'd thank your lucky stars . You'd complain if it was 2 bucks a gallon . I truely beleive you won't stop complaining until some 3rd world nation blows our butts up . Thats what you really want . You have such a pasionate hatred for this country . You really need to take a break from this forum and evaluate yourself . The time and energy you invest in your hateful post towards this country is beyond belief. You won't rest until misery surrounds you and feeds your bizzare disire .

[RaceBookJoe]

No great mystery about recent declines. But gas is still way more than if we had not invaded


http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/zFacts-Gasoline-Price.png

All that chart shows me is how miserable you really are. If you werent such an LA ( Link Addict...dont worry, you are not alone...there are others like you on this board) , you would have known what to do instead of posting link after link. You might have made huge profits just like the "bad guys". Posting a link doesnt mean you know much, you might as well point people to the nearest library also. That huge double-bottom between 2000-2002 on your chart was a huge opportunity.....hope you didnt link it away. Also, the problem in the middle east is not primarily because the US is there like you say.....it has been a hotspot for a few thousand years. I could link a few scriptures about not only the beginning of it, but also the end of the story too, but that would accuse me of being biblical. The USA is just the latest movement of the eternal orchestration. There wont be peace there, but we need to find a way to deal with things. Being hateful towards any country, especially your own wont help anything. Who cares if it takes 10 years to find an answer to problems...just find them. It takes more than that to get our of school....does that mean we shouldnt go just because it takes too long.

[ddog]

Conveniently, you did not address my point.

You don't think that if Congress authorizes more drilling that the price of oil won't react as I've outlined? :lol:


Papa,

I addressed all the points from the original that i could possibly believe you made in a non-kidding mode.

I guess I was wrong, if you made the price/drilling point in non joking mode, then I really can't explain it to you.

Nothing I know of that could be 5-10 years away from market and probably longer would affect spot prices and delivery contracts today?????

Maybe you could enlighten.

[JustRalph]

When I first started driving, there were still some "gas wars" that flared up every once in a while. Mid 70's.

I will never forget my local certified station had a sign that had the cigarette price per pack on one side and the gas price on the other. One day I pulled my trusty Cutlass Supreme into the lot and both sides said 35 cents.......

I would be ecstatic if I saw 3.35 today.......... :lol:

Just wait. After all these magical "green cars" fall out of Obama's ass, gas will be back to a buck a gallon.............

[46zilzal]

Being hateful towards any country, especially your own wont help anything. Who cares if it takes 10 years to find an answer to problems...just find them. It takes more than that to get our of school....does that mean we shouldnt go just because it takes too long.
COme on come with something other than the Grover Norquist play book answer to dissenting opinions. BLOW BACK From all the "black bag" puppet dictators the CIA has set up around the world was going to eventually bite back

[Secretariat]

The bottom line......

http://www.bartcop.com/gas-compare-808.jpg

Or from the one picture is worth a thousand words department

HCap,

That is a great post. You should forward it to both the Obama and McCain campaign. Would appear nicely in an ad.

btw.. for those that really are still ignorant about tire pressure, here's a non-partisan take.

http://autorepair.about.com/od/gasmileage/qt/tireprssrgas.htm

"Tire Pressure and Your Gas Mileage
Keeping Your Tires Filled Saves Gas and Money.
By Matthew Wright, About.com

Did you know that how much air you have in your tires can have a direct affect on your gas mileage? It's true. Here's why:
....

Filling your tires to the correct pressure will make it easier on the engine, and that means you'll be using less gas. It can make a difference of a three or four miles per gallon. That's at least 36 more miles to the average tank of gas. At one tank of gas per week, you could be adding 1,872 free miles in a year! That's savings, and that's Automotive Empowerment for no money at all. "

[Lefty]

Everyone knows about tire pressure and most of us do it. For this idiot to put it forth as part of an energy policy just shows how ignorant he is. We have to increase the supply and the pipples know it. So if he wants to run around spouting these childish things he will hand the election to Mcain on a silver platter.
We need to do everything, including using our own resources and he is against that, unless he changes his mind again. He also wants to give everyone a $1000 enegy rebate but said it was a bad idea when Hillary proposed it. LOL

[JustRalph]

HCap,

That is a great post. You should forward it to both the Obama and McCain campaign. Would appear nicely in an ad

Obama couldn't use it. Not while he and his party stand in the way of more drilling............the Repubs would tear them apart. The vote to drill in Anwr was taken in 2002 and was almost straight on the party line. You care to run those prices against 2002 till now? That would make the Dems look pretty bad.

Oh, BTW, McCain voted with the Dems on that one. One of his Maverick moments.

[Tom]

So Sec, Obama calls us all too stupid to kow how to keep our tires inflated and your swallow it? :lol::lol::lol:

Where did the jerk get the data for that?

[Tom]

Hey Ralph, the dems took congress and gas went through the roof.
The dems go on vaction, and the price of oil has dropped EVERY DAY since they left town!

[JustRalph]

Hey Ralph, the dems took congress and gas went through the roof.
The dems go on vaction, and the price of oil has dropped EVERY DAY since they left town!


Let's send them to the Olympics and see what happens? :lol: as far as China is, might get it down to a 1.50 a gallon

While they are there, they can figure out what real pollution is..........by breathing it ..............

[equicom]

Maybe it has nothing to do with democrats... or republicans.... but with oil companies, profit, money... ummm.... and did I mention money yet?

Video 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zihvon92knE)

Video 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-q6HGmN07o)

Video 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN2TjUgDdJA)

I invented my own "fuel-free" system, but didn't have the resources to build it. Doesn't seem to be any point now, because there are so many others out there. Which is the point... there are so many!

[JustRalph]

not sure I want to believe a damn thing said by a guy who can't remember to button his shirt before filming his amazing engine video...............

[Secretariat]

Everyone knows about tire pressure and most of us do it.

Not according to GW's own Department of Transportation.

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/125093/article.html

"The Department of Transportation estimates that 5 million gallons of fuel per day are wasted due to low tire pressure. That's more than 2 billion gallons per year, just because people don't take the time to inflate their tires properly."

:bang: :bang: :bang:

[equicom]

not sure I want to believe a damn thing said by a guy who can't remember to button his shirt before filming his amazing engine video...............

Yeah, that was pretty weird. I'm thinking that was probably the standard uniform for mechanics in the 70's and 80's though, so maybe he thought it would be adding credibility and/or that he could score some "groovy" chicks with his video clip.

I also think his car would have gone faster if he put a sail on top, but the point is that this was early days, pioneer stuff. People have expanded on those early ideas, although most technology is still very basic or poorly understood.

The joe-cell might be an exception. That actually does seem to work very well, but because they don't completely understand how it works, they don't have a lot of control over the energy, and apparently it is too powerful and unpredictable.

Maybe I should build my idea after all. But it would be an expensive gamble to do that, and probably a lot of work only to be beaten to it by somebody else. Or we will have new mainstream technology in a few years anyway that would make all this obsolete.

[PaceAdvantage]

Nothing I know of that could be 5-10 years away from market and probably longer would affect spot prices and delivery contracts today?????You're neglecting the severe impact that speculators have had on the price of oil. This is what has dropped oil over $30 per barrel in less than one month. A month, coincidentally, which saw serious talk of expanded oil drilling in the US. You don't think that made all those speculators nervous? You don't think there has been some serious unwinding of positions?

You don't think there would be an equal or greater move downward with an official endorsement by Congress of expanded drilling?

Remember, when it comes to the markets and oil prices, REALITY does not have to be 100% REAL. It just has to be PERCEIVED that way in order for markets to move.