Pace Appraiser Becomes Interactive

[Partsnut]

For anyone that has had experience with PaceAppraiser and the Randy Giles methods and pace concepts, you might appreciate his new interactive program which now includes Turf lines as well as Dirt. This can be found at his website: www.paceappraiser.com.
I have no affiliation with Randy's business but he is a very good friend.

I can say, without hesitation that his methods are sensible, affordable as well as profitable for me and easy to use once you learn and understand his concepts.


Yesterday I posted 5 races to my users group (Exacta Keys). The Key horse won 2 out of 5 races and the winner of the 8th race paid $ 31.00.

The purity and the sound concepts of both Randy's methods and the interactive program allows one to get back to real handicapping.

I know that there will always be those that will be skeptical about my post but my motives are pure and honest.
I felt it was time to break away from the redundant software, corralaries, set rules and methodologies that requires the user to bet 2 horses, which in my opinion is mathematically unsound and because most software being mechanical would not let the user make a clear decision and was in fact a rehash of the same old principles over and over again.

It was time for me to use the BRIS racing form, Bris $ 1.00 data files and PaceAppraiser and get back to real handicapping.

[Tom Barrister]

The program is probably useful for people who rely on pace as their primary mode of handicapping. I tried, it, and it wasn't for me, but I don't rely heavily on pace.

[Tom]

Hey Partsnut....Itried it out and it is pretty slick.
Do you know if he used the BRIS pace and speed figures and modifies them, or makes his own?

I was trying to see how he modified the pace numbers and couldn't make any sense out it.

BTW, did you buy his book?
Pretty good, I thought.

[Partsnut]

Tom Barrister "The program is probably useful for people who rely on pace as their primary mode of handicapping. I tried, it, and it wasn't for me, but I don't rely heavily on pace."

Thanks for the response. I can appreciate your position. What works for me might not work for you. However, I'd be happy to send you a race that I posted to my users group so that you can visualize my approach. It would be overly pretensious to say that this will work each and every time I use it because I make mistakes as we all do, last night was a prime example. If in fact I am selective in what and how I use this tool I truly believe it is a money maker.
If you choose to do so, you can write me personally and I will send you the file I have prepared. Who knows, it might be of some help to you. :)
dr.horse@verizon.net

[Partsnut]

Tom : Hey Partsnut....Itried it out and it is pretty slick.
Do you know if he used the BRIS pace and speed figures and modifies them, or makes his own?

I was trying to see how he modified the pace numbers and couldn't make any sense out it.

BTW, did you buy his book?
Pretty good, I thought.

Tom, his interactive program now does turf and dirt.
The program interpretes the BRIS and a few of the other data file formats into
his rendition of the pace lines. His speed competitive method is a work of art. I have seen his book as well. With a little practice and reading you will be good to go.

[Tom]

Oh, I'm already going.:)
I meant I couldn't figure out where some of the numbers came from.
I like the program.

[Partsnut]

Tom: Oh, I'm already going.
I meant I couldn't figure out where some of the numbers came from.
I like the program.

Tom, that's great. I see you took advantage of the 10 day free trial. I hope you do well with it. I believe you're sharp and experienced enough to do so. Let me know how you do.

[andicap]

Randy Giles is the real deal. I've been a fan of his for a long time -- back to his very old website (from almost 10 years back) and have spoken to him on the phone a few times. A very nice guy to boot - in an ornery kind of way.

His ideas are original and intelligent as he has taken pace handicapping a couple of steps beyond some other concepts. Not comparing him to Sartin -- one is not necessarily BETTER than the other and besides everyone is borrowing from -- even expanding upon -- the Huey Mahl/Ray Taulbot/ artin pace evolution.

Anyway, I can't say I use his stuff regularly -- I use HTR and Craig's pacefigures -- but his methods and writings have have a great influence on my thinking about pace and energy.

[Partsnut]

andicap: Randy Giles is the real deal. I've been a fan of his for a long time -- back to his very old website (from almost 10 years back) and have spoken to him on the phone a few times. A very nice guy to boot

andicap, I've always valued your input and posts because I believe you are honest and direct in your opinions and posts and you are very well versed on the subject matter.
You're endorsement is well received and validates what I have posted. The people you have mentioned are all good.

To me, Randy is unique. He has taken Pace Handicapping to the next level and made it affordable for others to use.
He took a lot of the mechanics, corollaries and overload of meaningless information out of the equation and brought back the meaning of "Handicapping" as it was originally intended to be. He has given me a way to isolate the key or single horse. Most of the software out there cannot do this. I use his software and method to isolate a "single horse" in a value situation. I pick my spots.

[Doug3312]

Is this program one that a novice could use, or does one need a lot of experience?

[Partsnut]

Hi Doug,

Sometimes being a novice can be an advantage because you will not be
confused by prior information.

If you do decide to go with PaceAppraiser, I suggest that you learn Randy's method inside and out. You can make a token $ 20.00 investment in his book " Extreme Handicapping" which should give you some insight into the process.

Test everything on paper before you get into making a wager.
If you have to make a bet, test yourself with small bets.
I do not encourage betting to anyone.

I placed a $ 10.00 Exacta bet in the 1st race at MNR tonight which brought me back $ 387.00 and I can verify this. I lost the 3rd race and will bet the 5th.

Randy will always be helpful as well. You can write him directly or post a question on my users group to him and he will happily answer you.

[Doug3312]

Partsnut,

Thanks, I did order the book last night and I also signed up for the trial. My problem at the moment is that there doesn't seem to be any type of guide to follow and I'm stumped with things like what a pace pressure gauge is and I don't see where the improving horses are flagged. I guess I'll have to wait for the book and hope that helps clear some things up. I'm also going to read Pace makes the race.
Doug

[JBmadera]

Randy Giles is the real deal. I've been a fan of his for a long time -- back to his very old website (from almost 10 years back) and have spoken to him on the phone a few times. A very nice guy to boot - in an ornery kind of way.

His ideas are original and intelligent as he has taken pace handicapping a couple of steps beyond some other concepts. Not comparing him to Sartin -- one is not necessarily BETTER than the other and besides everyone is borrowing from -- even expanding upon -- the Huey Mahl/Ray Taulbot/ artin pace evolution.

Anyway, I can't say I use his stuff regularly -- I use HTR and Craig's pacefigures -- but his methods and writings have have a great influence on my thinking about pace and energy.

Hi Andicap,

I've been messing about with the HTR demo, looked at HSH (really wanted to pull the trigger on that one when Dave had the $399 special but it just seemed to complicated for my old brain) and I just ordered the paceadivisor book. Could you elaborate as to why you went w/HTR vs. paceadvisiors. Based on feedback from others on this board I know that whichever on I choose I will need to spend 6 months+ working with it so I want to make darn sure I choose the right program.

Thank you,

JB

[grahors]

Paceadvisor???? Do you mean Paceappraiser?

[Partsnut]

Doug3312: Partsnut,

Thanks, I did order the book last night and I also signed up for the trial. My problem at the moment is that there doesn't seem to be any type of guide to follow and I'm stumped with things like what a pace pressure gauge is and I don't see where the improving horses are flagged. I guess I'll have to wait for the book and hope that helps clear some things up. I'm also going to read Pace makes the race.
Doug

Doug, send me an email and I'll try and help you.
dr.horse@verizon.net

[JBmadera]

Paceadvisor???? Do you mean Paceappraiser?

yes, I miss-typed the name>>>>>>:bang:

[andicap]

Hi Andicap,

I've been messing about with the HTR demo, looked at HSH (really wanted to pull the trigger on that one when Dave had the $399 special but it just seemed to complicated for my old brain) and I just ordered the paceadivisor book. Could you elaborate as to why you went w/HTR vs. paceadvisiors. Based on feedback from others on this board I know that whichever on I choose I will need to spend 6 months+ working with it so I want to make darn sure I choose the right program.

Thank you,

JB

Sure, that's a good question.

The truth is HTR came out a long time ago, so I've been working on it for a while while Paceappraiser is relatively new. If the chronology had been reversed I might be a Paceappraiser user now.

But just as important, HTR is a different animal than Pace Appraiser. It's much more full-featured -- but it's much more expensive as well. It really depends on what type of handicapper you are and what you need. I use Pacefigures with HTR because Craig's figures are too good not to take into account, but his software is more limited than HTR as well. (Craig has a limit of how many subscribers he takes at a time.)

So HTR just has a huge range of features and reports that the other two programs lack. Now, some people don't need that. Many people do fine just with Pacefigures and probably solely with Paceappraiser.

HTR does a great job telling me which horse has the best closing fraction in the race, has an excellent Spot Play application and modeler as well as a program that lets you look at how a race shapes up by changing each horse's pacelines. So you can see if a Horse A is on top using three of his last five lines for example. If you're a data base person (I'm not) HTR is great for all sorts of records -- trainer patterns, spot plays, etc. There are just so many features to HTR I can't recount them all here (the track profiler for example that you can download to a spreadsheet and see how each track has played every day for the past year. It gives you the pace and final times too if you want to create your own pars for tracks. For example, if i want to see what the 10K par for older male claimers was at Churchill Downs last year I can find out in a couple of clicks as well as comparing its spring and fall meets. )

I also use HTR's %E features in certain races -- it provides great prices because you don't always choose the fastest horse. For example if I'm looking for a sustained (late) horse, I will often choose a horse who's closing fraction is not the best one in favor of the lowest %E horses (assuming horses with that %E are competitive at a given track.).

Paceappraiser's advantages, it seems to me, -- besides the cost -- is its simplicity, its ability to tell you which horses can be competitive at a price because of their pace abilities. I haven't seen the latest update so I can't talk definitively about it but I know Randy's a winner using his software.

So it comes down to what YOU feel most comfortable with. Ken Massa will give you a free weekend of HTR during which you can download the last 45 days from each track and play with the program for a while to see if you like it.

At first I still lost using HTR because I was never comfortable picking pacelines and while HTR's automatic paceline selector is good, there's no substitute for picking your own because even its right an excellent 80% of the time the mistakes will cost you.

Finally I got comfortable using TWO paceline methods that I am currently using with HTR, which I will gladly send to anyone who contacts me. These methods are probably good with any software program and I am currently testing them with Craig's as well with some promising results on keying longshots in exotics.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions on HTR.

[JBmadera]

Thanks andicap - traded emails w/Ken and he is sending me a bunch of test files. I'll play around with it for a few days.


Cheers,

JB

[Doug3312]

Thanks Partsnut, I sent you an email.

[Partsnut]

For those that are interested I've attached my interpretation of how I think the first race at WOX will go tomorrow. Naturally, I'm hopeful that most of you realize there's no absolute. My purpose in making this post is to show you how I do it. There's a lot of Knowledgeable people on this site that are a lot smarter then I am and maybe they will see this race in a different light.
I welcome your opinions.

[Kelso]

Paceappraiser's advantages, it seems to me, -- besides the cost -- is its simplicity, its ability to tell you which horses can be competitive at a price beause of their pace abilities.Andi,
Would you explain what you mean by "can be competitive at a price?" Do you mean simply identifying longshot contenders, or are you relating likelihood of winning to post odds ... or something else entirely?

Thank you.

[chrisl]

Hello Parts: I really like the way you have set up your lines on this. What are you using to have the race set up this way. Simple to match up horses with this lay out..Any help..Thank you Chrisl

[Partsnut]

chrisl: Hello Parts: I really like the way you have set up your lines on this. What are you using to have the race set up this way. Simple to match up horses with this lay out..Any help..Thank you Chrisl

Thanks Chris,

I appreciate your kind words.

As you know, I'm using PaceAppraiser. I use the Bris $ 1.00 data files
and the BRIS PP Generator. I create my own file so that it's easy for the members of my users group to get an understanding and feel for how strong PaceAppraiser is. I am very partial to BRIS data files because they are accurate and affordable for me.

[andicap]

Andi,
Would you explain what you mean by "can be competitive at a price?" Do you mean simply identifying longshot contenders, or are you relating likelihood of winning to post odds ... or something else entirely?

Thank you.

I mean either

a) horses in my top 3 or 4 contenders

b) horses who i can key in my exacta/tris, not necessarily winners but good horses to play down-ticket at very attractive odds.

[JBmadera]

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions on HTR.[/QUOTE]

Hi Andicap - had a question about the 7th at Bel today. When looking at HTR the #7 had the best PAC # and the second highest FC but it was not one of the top 3 K rated horses. Since it won and paid $37.80, I had ZERO $'s on it, it got me to thinking about what actually goes into the K rating. I'm sure much of it is
proprietary but I wondered if you could share in general how the rating is constructed.

Thanks and I am really enjoying working with HTR.

JB

[Partsnut]

We had a great and profitable weekend using "PaceAppraiser" despite losing 3 races at WOX yesterday. My choice in the 2nd Race was beaten after losing a 5 length lead in the stretch. I play a straight exacta key and did not box it. I made numerous mistakes in this race and going back to this race, it became obvious to me why I lost this race. Sometimes you fail to see what is front of your face. :) The Exacta paid over $ 200.00
My normal exacta bet is $5.00. I key 1 over 2 others.
I personally spoke with Randy and addressed what I thought would be a useful addition to the program to make the user more persceptive whereas it would be easier to see what has happened and what might occur in a given race. I was pleased to hear that there will significant improvements made in the very near future that will make the best even better. In my humble opinion, this method and software is by far the best type of pace match-up available on todays market and is not someones mystical conception. The beauty of it, it's completely affordable and uses $ 1.00 BRIS files. To my mind BRIS is best and will get better as well.

[andicap]

Sorry to bore anyone not familar with HTR so i suggest skipping this long note because there are a lot of HTR references.

It is proprietory and I couldn't tell you offhand. Best advice is to look through the highlights of his newsletters on the home page, find the ones where he discusses the K rating and skim through there.

Myself I only use the K rating when using the ROBOT looking for a spot play. Otherwise I pretty much ignore it because they don't pick too many longshots. The K rating's beauty is that it beats the track take and the favorite generally comes from the top two or three.

I do not use the FC rating at all except weighing it in the ROBOT.

I didn't play yesterday (sigh) but you piqued my interest but when I saw it was a 6f maiden turf with only half the field having any history at the surface/distance I lost interest. Not my kind of race.
But I would say the K rating is definitely not as effective in these "chaos" races where the winner had only route pacelines in a sprint.

I do get interested in these horses when I expect a closer to win and it looks like the router won't be like, 20 lengths back. The winner did have a good profile for a router shortening up -- a presser at 8f - and the pace outlook for yesterday's race was definitely very weak meaning in retrospect the horse had a great shot of laying close to the pace and being able to use his finishing kick. It's not an original thought on my part:Brohamer actually describes this profile in the DRF's new longshot book (a good read BTW -- I recommend it.)

Interestingly (or not), the horse came up 2nd in PL-5 (the automatic line) under the IMPACT figure, tied for 2nd in PER (a final velocity figure for the non-HTR readers) and although 5th in AP, was 2nd in EP (1st in PAC -- another EP-type figure -- as you noticed). I still would have passed the race but I suppose if I was playing a pick-3 or 4 I MIGHT have used the horse on a backup ticket. I can't really say in hindsight.

I also see now that the horse fit the prevailing Track Profile which in HTR shows that 60% of the horses who were 1,2,3 at the pace but none were winning. But if you look at the "Maidens only" profile, it's a different picture with 40% winners going wire to wire and 90% were 1,2,3 at the pace call won the last 10 races at 6f on "firm" turf, but NONE were winning at the 4f mark though if in the top 3. That would have been encouraging to bet on the horse with the top PAC and 2nd EP rating.

PAC and PER differ from EP and AP based on some pace criteria but I can't quite remember which. You can search the Forum or the newsletters to check it out.

I noticed the horse came up 6th in the K rating in a field of 11 -- that's not too bad at 17-1.

So in summary -- HTR is like a lot of other software in that you can look at a race in a lot of different ways. The reason it takes people a while to get comforitable with it is because you have to figure out how to best use it to fit in with your style. Just like HSH you can't use everything because you'll encounter a lot of conflicting information. Like the 17-1 horse had a great early speed rating in a race with little speed but a lousy trainer and K rating. I choose to ignore the K rating in my everyday handicapping and concentrate a lot on the velocity figures, workout number, and charts that show a horse's form cycles.

(Here's a tip -- go to Fig 1, Fig 2 or Fig 3 and press the <F> button. Only those races at today's surface within a furlong of today's distance will come up.)

(Another tip -- highlight a horse's PP and hit <c> -- if the chart from that race is in the same directory as you are it will come up. If you separate your race files by month as I do the chart won't come up too often because I'll be in June2008 and the past race might be in May2008. )







Feel free to contact me if you have any questions on HTR.

Hi Andicap - had a question about the 7th at Bel today. When looking at HTR the #7 had the best PAC # and the second highest FC but it was not one of the top 3 K rated horses. Since it won and paid $37.80, I had ZERO $'s on it, it got me to thinking about what actually goes into the K rating. I'm sure much of it is
proprietary but I wondered if you could share in general how the rating is constructed.

Thanks and I am really enjoying working with HTR.

JB[/QUOTE]

[njcurveball]

it got me to thinking about what actually goes into the K rating. I'm sure much of it is
proprietary but I wondered if you could share in general how the rating is constructed.



Probably will get you more response posting these questions on the HTR board.

One thing many new users do not take advantage of is that the back issues of the Newsletters are FREE! Simply go to the Library and start reading. Since the major upgrades come out summer time, there is a lot of "meat" in those issues.

There is also plenty of documentation Rick put together a while ago. That link is also on the HTR site.

I will let you look there, rather than post these links here.

Remember the K rating is a contender rating and rarely will it have longshots in the top spots. Many spot plays show profit betting K ranks below 5.

You have to know what you are "fishing" for. Betting 20-1 shots may make some good money, but don't expect a high win percentage. Betting top ranked contenders may get you a high win percentage, but not make as much money.

Contrary to what people are looking for, there is no PERFECT bet for each race. To carry on an example I posted earlier, it is like walking through a used car lot and trying to find the best value from the prices posted.

Jim

[JBmadera]

Thx Jim - just signed up for the HTR board yesterday.


Andicap - working w/Robot and it's really what I have been looking for, a structured way to run various screens based on which h-capping factors I deem most important.....man, now I'll never sleep.....:jump:

[Doug3312]

Just wondering if anyone else has signed up with Pace Appraiser, and if so, what are your comments?

[Partsnut]

Doug3312: Just wondering if anyone else has signed up with Pace Appraiser, and if so, what are your comments?

Doug, all I can tell you that I have been using it and I like it.
I really have no idea of who is using it.

I bought Randy's book on "Extreme Handicapping" and like what I am reading and learning. It steers me to the "value" horse in the race that has a possible pace advantage when and if there is one present. It also makes me more selective as to what I should or shouldn't play. It make me more decisive and gives me a better understanding of pace and race shapes.

[Tom]

Parts....did you get the hard copy?
Is it the same as the E Book?
I heard it had pace multipliers?

[Partsnut]

Tom: Parts....did you get the hard copy?
Is it the same as the E Book?
I heard it had pace multipliers?

Yes, It's a softcover edition of 136 pages which does include the pace multipliers. I believe it is well worth the $19.95 price. I am reasonably sure that the book is similar in content to the e-book although Randy has added and changed it somewhat and his method is more or less the same as well, but I prefer a hard copy because I don't have to print it out or sit by a computer to read it.

In my opinion, If you want to be a selective "value" player and want to learn a method that will allow, teach and give you the opportunity to achieve this in the long term, then this book in combination with the interactive software is a formidable, inexpensive and easy way to do this.

[Partsnut]

New Features and Longshot Selections

For those that were fortunate enough to visit Randy's site yesterday and take advantage of his new " Daily Longshot Selection" feature you would have been on the cashing line at your local OTB office. His daily selection can be seen at his web site. These selections are before the fact and this is not a redboarded selection that seems to be a practice on other boards. Additionally and as you can see, this is a single horse pick which in my opinion is decisive and shows strength.

Additionally, Randy is in the process of making his method and interactive software even better then it is now. This should happen within a week or so.
You can also see the new additions that are being added at his site.

[facorsig]

US economy must be pretty bad for the longshots to pay $8.30!

[garyscpa]

US economy must be pretty bad for the longshots to pay $8.30!

The 3 was the only early speed in the race and he romped.

[facorsig]

Ok, I'll give you that one...scratch of ML favorite means he would have paid $10+ which I am okay with as a longshot....

[Partsnut]

facorsig: US economy must be pretty bad for the longshots to pay $8.30!

The horse was posted on the strength of it's morning line and was bet down.
All and all it was a decent price.
Hopefully, one of his future picks will allow you to pay off your mortgage provided you have one. :D

Yes, the economy is bad but why look a gift horse in the mouth? :eek:

We would always welcome your opinion on these plays. Maybe you have something better to add ?

[Partsnut]

facorsig: Ok, I'll give you that one...scratch of ML favorite means he would have paid $10+ which I am okay with as a longshot....

Appreciated. I am asking for and expect nothing from what I post and if you're ok with it, that's great. ;) I just say it like it is and call em' as I see em'
If you're expecting miracles then come to New York and set up a tent on 34th street. :lol:

[Fingal]

Yes, the economy is bad but why look a gift horse in the mouth? :eek:


That's the key word. FREE.:jump:

[mrroyboy]

I have Randy's e-book and his printed book. He does add pace multipliers and other things. It is very good and worth buying.

[Partsnut]

I justed watched the replay for the 1st race at APX.
The (4) had a commanding lead for the first 2 fractions and into mid stretch.
However, it is my personal belief that the last minute jockey change attirbuted to a poorly rated ride. The fractions were 21.96 to the quarter (4 length lead), 45.09 to the half (4-5 length lead). The jockey did not allow this horse to control the pace and rated him poorly. If the pace was slowed somewhat and could have been done with such a big lead, the (4) might have won instead of being eased in mid stretch. Take a look at the race and see if you come to the same conclusions.

[Partsnut]

As posted to my users group and blog:

July 30, 2008
PaceAppraiser Update
By partsnut

We can all look forward to what I would consider to be one of the best handicapping tools that will be available at any price. In a phone conversation I had today with Randy Giles, the creator of PaceAppraiser, I was told that the updated version of this interactive program is coming along and that this update will include many extras not previously seen in the older editions. I believe it's about a week or two away.

Knowing Randy and his son Jasons capabilities as a programmer and the strength of their "Extreme Handicapping" method, I am expecting this new update to be the best value in horse racing.

Randy has always put out an affordable program and made it easy for people to subscribe.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey man, you forgot to tell us the price.

As an aside, some of my paying advertisers are upset that Randy is getting free advertising via Partsnut. What should I tell them?

[headhawg]

I think that the point about Pace Appraiser has been made so this thread should be closed unless Randy wants to advertise here. It's only fair.

[Partsnut]

PaceAdvantage : Hey man, you forgot to tell us the price.

As an aside, some of my paying advertisers are upset that Randy is getting free advertising via Partsnut. What should I tell them?

I don't have an interest in Randys business. I will say his methods and
interactive software works for me. His products are affordable.
I will only promote the people and things I believe in.
I offer my opinions and beliefs as is the mandate of a forum.
It's call free thought and speech.
Many of your "advertisers" would have a lot to prove to me as well as many others.

There's an old saying: The cream comes to the top.


headhawg: I think that the point about Pace Appraiser has been made so this thread should be closed unless Randy wants to advertise here. It's only fair.

I can't speak for Randy. I can say he might consider it but that would have to come from him.
It seems that my entusiastic posts about PaceAppraiser has drawn quite a bit of attention and I can understand the resentment of your "advertisers".
However, I gave my honest opinion and appraisal of an excellent and affordable method and product. The rest of the views and responses came from others. As I stated before there's nothing in it for me except the pleasure and enjoyment of using his products and the learning experience that has improved my handicapping ability.

[PaceAdvantage]

Fair enough Partsnut, but I'm sure that if you reread a couple of your recent posts in this thread, you can see where the other side has a point.

Lots of people on this message board post about software that they like all the time...HTR, HSH, NetCapper, etc. and I never feel compelled to call them out publicly (and please note, HTR has never been an advertiser on this board, so it's not like I'm picking only on those who aren't advertisers).

[Partsnut]

As posted on the PaceAppraiser site and on my users group and blog. This was done before the fact and in real time. No red boarding here.

30 selective races with 10 wins (33% single pick winners)
ROI = +13.1%.

The Pace Advantage board is the best horse racing board on the internet and I wish to thank the administrators for being tolerant about my posts. I am only trying to purvey a method and software that works and that I believe in and share my thoughts and beliefs with others.

The users and providers of other software products have the right to post the same kind of test if they have the courage and would be willing to do so and put there results out in realtime and before the fact. I would love to see what the results of such products would be before I bought them or passed judgement on them. As you can plainly see that the burden of proof was placed on the provider and not on the user. He put himself out in front of the public. How many other providers would do the same?

[MitchS]

I for one like the program :). It fits my eye well with how I like to visulize the races and it works nicely in tandem with other things I like to look at. It's extremely affordable as an extra tool in the tool kit. Looking REALLY FORWARD to the new PaceAppraiser PP's, a new product suppose to be comming out any day now. On the downside the only little glitch is the scratch feature but I've been told that thats the last feature thats being implimented into the new product.. :jump:

Mitch

[Tom Barrister]

For some reason, I was under the impression that Mr. Giles was an advertiser here. If I'd known differently, I would have chimed in earlier.

[Partsnut]

Tom Barrister: For some reason, I was under the impression that Mr. Giles was an advertiser here. If I'd known differently, I would have chimed in earlier.

Tom, you are always welcomed to chime in. I will respect and value your opinion.

My present experiences with PaceAppraiser have been enjoyable and fruitful. I am running my own race cycle in the Del Mar on line contest. I've participated in 28 races with 7 wins and I am slightly down on the ROI. -6.429 % which relates to slightly less then 0.065 cents on a dollar.
Please realize that these races are pre-selected for me and I play them whether they be good or bad.

In my humble opinion, the method is sound, affordable, easy to understand and use, and works. The newest upgrade which will be announced shortly will make it even better. :ThmbUp:

[Tom Barrister]

I haven't used PaceAppraiser much. I did try a couple of 15 day demos of the software a year or two ago. I couldn't quite figure it out. I don't really have an opinion of the software. I would imagine that pace handicappers would find it very useful.

I do have an opinion of this thread, though. While your intentions may be good, the effect is to provide a rather long advetisement for Paceapraiser. I can understand why paying advertisers may not be particularly happy.

While Randy doesn't charge much to use the program ($10 a month, I believe), he should still have to play by the same rules as everybody else. I'm sure PA's rates are reasonable, and having this forum to advertise on should help sales.

[Partsnut]

Tom Barrister: I do have an opinion of this thread, though. While your intentions may be good, the effect is to provide a rather long advetisement for Paceapraiser. I can understand why paying advertisers may not be particularly happy.

While Randy doesn't charge much to use the program ($10 a month, I believe), he should still have to play by the same rules as everybody else. I'm sure PA's rates are reasonable, and having this forum to advertise on should help sales.

First off, let me say that Randy has nothing to do with what I post.
My posts are directed to the members of this board with the intention of sharing and bringing to their attention something that is proven and works.
I don't believe this forum is intended or should be dictated to the "advertisers". They have people that use their product and those users that are free to post their opinions honestly as I have.
As I've stated before and will re-state: I have no other interest in Randy's product other then that it works and is proven. I promote what I consider to be effective and will continue to freely express my beliefs. I don't sell myself cheap, I am not in anyones pocket and owe the advertisers nothing.

[ryesteve]

While Randy doesn't charge much to use the program ($10 a month, I believe), he should still have to play by the same rules as everybody else.
Can someone help me out here? I recall PA frequently having to explain that the "rules" are that anyone can talk about any product they want, EXCEPT for the developers themselves, or anyone who has a financial interest.

So unless Partsnut is Randy Giles, how exactly is this thread NOT playing by the rules??

[Hosshead]

Can someone help me out here? I recall PA frequently having to explain that the "rules" are that anyone can talk about any product they want, EXCEPT for the developers themselves, or anyone who has a financial interest.

So unless Partsnut is Randy Giles, how exactly is this thread NOT playing by the rules??
Agree.
In fact I'd like to hear more about what partsnut has found with paceappraiser.

[MitchS]

Originally posted by: ryesteve

Can someone help me out here? I recall PA frequently having to explain that the "rules" are that anyone can talk about any product they want, EXCEPT for the developers themselves, or anyone who has a financial interest.

So unless Partsnut is Randy Giles, how exactly is this thread NOT playing by the rules??


Exactly! There are a gazillion posts in the "Software" threads where people share there unbiased opinions on software products in the marketpace. I myself continually patrol the software threads on a regular basis to see what programs or new products people might be talking about where I can get an unbiased opinion from players using the program and there experiences with said product. Ya' never know when you might stumble on something that fits your eye as an extra tool for the arsenal..

Personally, I like Tom gave the PA program a try a year or two ago, did the 30 day trail and it just didn't fit, didn't quite grasp it or want to grasp it, lol.. Glad though that I came back to it with the new interactive version and am looking forward to the new PP's product. With my own personal numbers that I crunch with odds lines and the PA program alongside I seem to be cruising along at the highest level of success rate that I've ever achieved in 40 years of being around the track.. Is it a black box...lol, NO !! It's not even a stand alone product cause you need other resources to refer to when handicapping a race but hopefully the new PP's will close that gap...

[cj]

Since PA has obviously checked in on this thread, and he left it open, there isn't really much else to talk about as far as the advertising aspect goes.

[Tom Barrister]

Let me refresh the memories of those who don't see any problem here:

Hey man, you forgot to tell us the price.

As an aside, some of my paying advertisers are upset that Randy is getting free advertising via Partsnut. What should I tell them?

That certainly doesn't appear to be a man who is pleased with everything that's going on.

PA didn't close the "POPS&TIPS" thread, either. That didn't mean that he was happy about its existence. I realize that Len has a financial interest in that software. Eventually, RPM became a paying advertiser, and that ended the discussion about free advertising.

Even if we concede that Partsnut doesn't have a financial interest in Paceappraiser, the effect is still a growing thread which---regardless of the intent of the poster----is turning into a commercial.

Like I said in the POPS&TIPS thread, before they became an advertiser, if PA is cool with it, so am I, but I was invited to express my opinion, and I did.

[ryesteve]

That certainly doesn't appear to be a man who is pleased with everything that's going on.Which is why I was asking for a clarification, not further debate.

[cj]

That certainly doesn't appear to be a man who is pleased with everything that's going on.



I agree, but since he left it open, don't you have to assume he is OK with it? Nothing wrong with expressing your opinion. I happen to agree with you, but I'm not about to veto the decision of the guy that runs the place, so I don't see the point any longer.

[Pace Cap'n]

Who made you board cop?

[Partsnut]

Cool it guys, There's a very strong possibility that Randy will be advertising soon. This should make all concerned happy. ;)
Evidently, the guy that runs the show made the right decision.

[dav4463]

It was an interesting thread until everyone started talking about free advertisement. It didn't look like advertising to me. It was just discussion.

[Partsnut]

dav4463: It was an interesting thread until everyone started talking about free advertisement. It didn't look like advertising to me. It was just discussion

Thanks, I guess there will always be a small segment of malcontents trying to kill an honest thread and opinion. They just can't stand it when something is good, proven and better then what they have or use.. They have to interject with their negative comments to feed their ego. However we have to respect each others opinions whatever they may be worth. :ThmbDown:

[Partsnut]

Tom,

Please re-read this:
Thanks, I guess there will always be a small segment of malcontents trying to kill an honest thread and opinion. They just can't stand it when something is good, proven and better then what they have or use.

I have not seen anyone post anything to the contrary.
Maybe you'll be the first.

[Tom Barrister]

dav4463:

Thanks, I guess there will always be a small segment of malcontents trying to kill an honest thread and opinion. They just can't stand it when something is good, proven and better then what they have or use.. They have to interject with their negative comments to feed their ego. However we have to respect each others opinions whatever they may be worth. :ThmbDown:

Thanks for that. So much for my opinion being welcomed.

I might as well be a malcontent for a while longer about this supposedly "good, proven, and better than" program and feed my ego some more before I move on from this thread to others.

This is Partsnut's very first post on PA, back in 2005, and it was in a thread about Randy Giles:

Hi,
.
Randy is alive and kicking.

To get a better insight on his proposed software
you should visit his sight.

The full concept and the proposed cost of the software are listed.

I am reasonably certain that what he proposes
will be a lot more effective and a lot less expensive
then most of the ineffective software and pace figures being offered. If the shoe fits then wear it.

The proof is in the pudding. ;)

You can download his instructions manual
http://www.paceappraiser.com


The post came mid-thread, after Mr. Giles had made a few posts. 2 posts total.

A couple of months later, andicap started a thread about Paceappraiser, and guess who chimed in? Among the 5 posts Partsnut made in that thread was this:

The program definitely has a lots of merit.
It's an excellent tool.

Randy has brought me a lot of insight into the game.
He is a player and not just a programmer. He wants you to win and his past efforts have proven that. He has written a lot of good stuff (all free).
You can find a lot of intersting material at his web site:
www.paceappraiser.com
Most of all he's is a gentleman.

Todays results were decent considering the fact that I virtually used it
without plan or purpose. It was a test run to see what does win.
I believe I have found that answer.

I had One $5.00 winner and One $ 16.00 winner out of 8 races. A plus day.
I examined the results against my contender list and found some interesting information that would have led me to the $47.00 horse in the eighth race.

Normally, I bet to win and qualify my picks by their post time odds, looking for the value. Today was a research day so I let it rip. :rolleyes:

Most of the ensuing posts were selections, with a few odds and ends.

Then 23 posts in this thread, including this one:

Hi Doug,

Sometimes being a novice can be an advantage because you will not be
confused by prior information.

If you do decide to go with PaceAppraiser, I suggest that you learn Randy's method inside and out. You can make a token $ 20.00 investment in his book " Extreme Handicapping" which should give you some insight into the process.

Test everything on paper before you get into making a wager.
If you have to make a bet, test yourself with small bets.
I do not encourage betting to anyone.

I placed a $ 10.00 Exacta bet in the 1st race at MNR tonight which brought me back $ 387.00 and I can verify this. I lost the 3rd race and will bet the 5th.

Randy will always be helpful as well. You can write him directly or post a question on my users group to him and he will happily answer you.

It's not as though Partsnut just wandered in off the street and discovered Paceappraiser. He is apparently a longtime user, has a blog that mentions Mr. Giles' play of the day as they occur and runs a a Google Group devoted to Paceappraiser, at which Mr Giles answers questions posted by users of the group.

There is involvement here. While nitpickers can state that Partsnut may not technically be a developer and technically might have no financial interest (although we certainly don't know), it would be hard to classify him as "just another Paceappraiser user" here.

One other point: Mr. Giles' play of the day showed an ROI of 0.853 up to August 13th. My program, which of course is far inferior, unproven, and worse than Paceappraiser, showed an ROI of 1.12 over the past two months, which is a bit higher than its 2008 total (1.08), that achieved as a black box. I just can't stand being so owned by Paceappraiser.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go be malcontent and go feed my ego by killing other threads with my negative comments.

[JustRalph]

Gotta love the search function.......... :lol:

Tom :ThmbUp:

[barn32]

Thanks, I guess there will always be a small segment of malcontents trying to kill an honest thread and opinion. They just can't stand it when something is good, proven and better then what they have or use.. They have to interject with their negative comments to feed their ego... :ThmbDown:You were doing OK until you said this.

"Better than what they have or use?" According to whom? You?

The only one with an "ego" that I can see in this thread is YOU. But hey, if Paceappraiser works for you then go for it. Comments like you posted above only hurt your credibility--assuming you had any in the first place.

I guess some people just don't know when to shut up.

[ryesteve]

I guess some people just don't know when to shut up.Pretty good summary of this thread...

[Partsnut]

Barn32: You were doing OK until you said this.

"Better than what they have or use?" According to whom? You?

The only one with an "ego" that I can see in this thread is YOU. But hey, if Paceappraiser works for you then go for it. Comments like you posted above only hurt your credibility--assuming you had any in the first place.

I guess some people just don't know when to shut up.

Yes, I have used PaceAppraiser since 2005 and yes, I will continue to use it.
I made no secret of having a users group and a blog which is open to all software users. I agree, some people just don't know when to shut up.
Some people will twist and misinterpret the facts as well, which in my opinion is trying to being done here by a few.
Putting all this aside, life goes on and so will this thread. I call 'em as I see 'em and will continue to express my opinion.

[Partsnut]

Barn 32: Comments like you posted above only hurt your credibility--assuming you had any in the first place..

If I'm not credible, are you? There are some that think I am and those people are important to me. What you or anyone else thinks doesn't really matter to me. If you or whomever are not appreciative of what I post, then don't read it. I'm not here for a pissing contest. I'm here to state what I believe is truthful and factual. You don't have to agree with it. It's easy to pull thinks out of context for the sheer purpose of attacking someone. Is this is credible behavior? Enough said.

[rangiles]

First of all my apologizes to Mike – who does a fine job with this forum - for this post. I don’t post because I’m not an advertiser yet…emphasis on “yet”. The only time I ever posted to any thread was back when I had a free content site, which was up for a number of years; and I posted only a couple times, I think. My philosophy was and is: Stealth advertising by way of entering into conversations here is not fair to Mike. And that’s the reason I don’t post.

Having said that I thought I should respond to this thread. It seems my credibility is in question just a little bit. So…I appreciate anyone who is enthusiastic about my stuff. Thank you Partsnut! Jason, my son the programmer, and I work very hard on our projects and so it’s nice to know it’s appreciated. We, Jason and I, have no – that’s zero – influence on what’s posted here. So I hope that point is clear now.

There’s been some talk about ROI here too. As experienced players know, it’s just plain silly to discuss that topic – or compare ROIs - with any seriousness until a sample of at least 200 races has been recorded…at least. But it is fair to follow the ups and downs along the way, and I think that should be the focus and the fun part. I’ve just completed my personal records for +1800 races and my ROI is, well, my business. I wouldn’t expect anyone to believe it anyway…nor should they unless they can actually see my financial records…and they would have to get past my wife for that one. Good luck. I could care less about who says they have a positive ROI on this forum or any where else for that matter (Anyone who does should be proud of their accomplishment, no doubt about that). For me, the important question is this, and always this: Does a certain approach or idea help me, with what I already know and the way I understand the game, improve my bottom line? That’s all I’m interested in, period. I would venture to bet that some of the best ideas I’ve heard over the years came from folks who’ve never had a break even year. Good handicapping is only a small part of a winning approach, it seems.

I’ll repeat the main theme: I don’t tell anyone or pay anyone to post anything for me, and I don’t know anyone who’d be a mole for me. The people I know have more respect for themselves than that. And finally, yes - playing fair is very important to me, and my reputation is too.

Thanks for reading.

Mike, if you happen to read this, please know I’ll be in touch shortly about a side banner. Plus, I’ll be happy to pay for any impressions this post of mine receives.

Randy Giles

[PaceAdvantage]

Although I still have issues with what Partsnut has posted to date, I left the posts up, all the while knowing that if he continued to repeat himself in the future, his posts would be deleted, if for nothing else than the redundancy factor.

And for the record, I never believed that Randy Giles or anyone connected with his operation was responsible for the Partsnut posts. However, I also believe Partsnut went way above and beyond what any normal software junkie / fan usually writes, which is why I took issue with this thread in the first place.

Finally, I would hope that Mr. Giles does not feel the least bit pressured to advertise because of the existence of this thread. There are plenty of handicapping products discussed regularly which have never seen the developers of those products advertise on PaceAdvantage.com (Handicapping Magic and HTR come immediately to mind).

[Partsnut]

In order for me not to be redundant, I will simply state that PaceAppraiser has come out with their new tool (The PaceAppraiser Form).
It can be seen on their new website.
I will not offer my opinion and let the readers form their own opinions.

[RichieP]

In order for me not to be redundant, I will simply state that PaceAppraiser has come out with their new tool (The PaceAppraiser Form).
It can be seen on their new website.
I will not offer my opinion and let the readers form their own opinions.

Thank you Bill. Appreciate the heads up.

[Partsnut]

RitchieP: Thank you Bill. Appreciate the heads up.

With your strong knowledge of the Match-Up and your ability as an excellent
handicapper and teacher. PaceAppraiser might be something you might want to look into.

You've given help and inspired many and I have not forgotten this.
I appreciate your post.

Thanks

[Tom]

I've been waiting to check this out, too. Thanks. :ThmbUp:

[Partsnut]

Tom,

I think you'll like what you see.
Whatever I can do to help.

Enjoy.

[shoelessjoe]

Parts,You have been behind this from the get go Im glad your finally sticking to one program[i know its like the pot calling the kettle black].

[Partsnut]

shoelessjoe Parts,You have been behind this from the get go Im glad your finally sticking to one program[i know its like the pot calling the kettle black].

It's all a matter of preference. I've tried a lot of different things but this one is a keeper for me.

[Tom]

Well, I like the look of the PPs.
I think I'll try a month and check it out.
I like the race shape block right in the PPs.

[Tom Barrister]

I just ordered Extreme Pace Handicapping from Amazon.

I may take a month's look at the program, too. I'm already on the TSN Advantage Plan, and $20 a month is reasonable. If nothing else, I might learn something about pace, a factor I don't use heavily right now.

[barn32]

I'm already on the TSN Advantage Plan, and $20 a month is reasonable.Can you tell me a little more about what this plan entails?

[socantra]

TSN Advantage Plan:

http://www.tsnhorse.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=advantage

[Tom Barrister]

Can you tell me a little more about what this plan entails?

From the TSN Website:

For a flat monthly fee of only $59.95, TSN Advantage Plan members are entitled to unlimited Quick Play PP's, unlimited Insider Picks & Power Plays Selection Sheets, and unlimited ProCAPS software datafiles, and exotic result files. In addition, TSN Advantage Plan members receive "Preferred" membership rates on all other TSN products.

[PaceAdvantage]

I will not offer my opinion and let the readers form their own opinions.Actually, your opinion would be much more helpful. An opinion is much different from a downright advertisement.

[Partsnut]

Admin: Actually, your opinion would be much more helpful. An opinion is much different from a downright advertisement.


Actually, I like it. It was not my purpose to advertise it. I only wanted to inform
people that the upgrade is out. It's a real nice tool and a good piece of work.
I apologize if this or I offended you in any way.

[Tom]

My opinion, it is a petty good product. You get the whole pace pictures embedded in the PPs, no times, but full class and positional running lines, plus the meat of the meal, the pace ratings and race shapes, plus each horse's comfort zone. IT is tailor-made pace pace handicapping and simple enough you could handle a few tracks at once - through fast processing of well structured and focused information. I'm definately going for a month to test it out.

[barn32]

My opinion, it is a petty good product. You get the whole pace pictures embedded in the PPs, no times...No fractional times? That's what I thought when I took a look, but I thought it must be a typo.

I gotta have those times.

[Tom]

Not needed in this method. You'd be wasting your money.

[Tom Barrister]

No fractional times? That's what I thought when I took a look, but I thought it must be a typo.

I gotta have those times.

You can get the fractions by running the data file through the Past Performance Generator.

TSN's two montly unlimited data plans offer versions of their PDF PP's, which of course have the fractions.

[scgmhawk]

Hi,

I'm new the board but have been "lurking" for some time. I just ordered the Extreme Pace Handicapping yesterday as well and plan to try out the site. I've always just been a BRIS Ultimate PP's guy but want to try out something new. I read about Pace Appraiser on this site. I will also say that I emailed Randy and he responded probably within 6 hours which impressed me.

Nice to meet all of you, by the way.

-Steve

[Tom]

Hi Steve, welcome.
Did you read the articles on Randy's site? Some are pretty good.
You will enjoy the book, I'm sure.

[scgmhawk]

Thanks for the welcome, Tom. I took a quick look at all the information but haven't read them yet. I will, though. It's a totally different perspective for me.

I will also say that I'm picking up a lot just reading these forums. Lots of great info. and opinions.

[shoelessjoe]

Recently I have talked to Jim Lehane and Randy Giles and have come away with admiration for both of them.They took the time to explain things that were published in their books and didnt care about telling how they go about looking at a race in fear of losing ROI.Any product they put out in the future I would not hesitate to buy.

[Tom Barrister]

I ordered the book, and I'm going to sign up for the website service/program when the book arrives and I've had a chance to read it.

[Tom Barrister]

I've read the book, which is interesting and presents some new (to me) ideas. I'm going to sign up for the website, as well, and give the program a go, mainly to see if it helps me understand pace better than I do.

[scgmhawk]

I also have read the book and signed up for the service. The methodology is a simple one (which I like) and the PP's show the race data in the Extreme Pace way. If you want to set up your own database, the book tells you how to do it. The PP's provide their own unique Pace Figs and race velocity ratings. I'm still getting used to these PP's but I've already hit a few nice prices in this past week with this methodology. The one thing missing, and Randy said that he is working on adding this somehow, is pedigree information for FTS's. It's difficult for me to play maiden races with these. Other than that, thumbs up so far. And, Randy had been great responding to my emails.

-Steve

[socantra]

I'm still getting used to these PP's but I've already hit a few nice prices in this past week with this methodology. The one thing missing, and Randy said that he is working on adding this somehow, is pedigree information for FTS's. It's difficult for me to play maiden races with these. Other than that, thumbs up so far. And, Randy had been great responding to my emails.

-Steve

I'm glad Randy has been responsive, but I think you are expecting a bit much from past performances.

By definition, first time starters have NO past performance information. If you choose to play such races, that's fine, but to expect ANY set of past performances to provide you with pedigree information is asking for a bit more than their job description entails.

I'm sure Randy will do what he feels is right, but I really hate to see him hang much in the way of all purpose, extraneous information on his streamlined past performances.

[socantra]

No fractional times? That's what I thought when I took a look, but I thought it must be a typo.

I gotta have those times.

You either except the generated numbers or you don't. That makes the fractional times redundant. If you can't let loose of the raw fractions, these pps are not for you. I didn't think I was going to be able too, but I'm beginning to like the feel and the clarity.

[Tom]

In order to use the Pace Appraiser, your need the BRIS or TSN PPs to begin with, therefore you already have the times and the pedigree information.

[scgmhawk]

In talking about Pedigree information for FTS's, I just like the pedigree information provided with the BRIS Ultimate PP's. Just a few stats to help select first timers. That's all I mean. I think that would be possible for Randy to include.

[scgmhawk]

I didn't see Tom's post when I responded about the pedigree information. Maybe it is in the data files, I honestly don't know, but it doesn't currently appear on the Pace Appraiser PPs.

[Partsnut]

I've never kept the fact a secret that I'm partial to PaceAppraiser software and the method. I use them both daily and have had great success with them.
It's the #1 tool of my choice.
I have been using it with MPH software and the results then became even better.
I can really say without hesitation that it is really unimportant to me that there are those that doubt my credibilty or motives. Actually many more know my credibilty and respect and appreciate my thinking. I have given an honest appraisal of what works. Please see my present standings in the Meadowland Survival Challenge Contest. These results are "Real" and not pre-fabricated or before the fact.

The contest is half way finished and fortunately i'm one of the remaining 418 survivors out of over 2000 participants.

[Jingle]

Congrats Partsnut and continued success. These contests are not easy.

How do you use the program with MPH? Does it require manual entry of the speed number? Assume it does.

[Partsnut]

I am not posting here for the purpose of advertising or antagonizing anyone. My purpose is to show members a method that is proven and works. I posted the following article to my users group and blog. I believe you will find what I am posting to be not only credible but a rude awaking to some.

[Tom Barrister]

I am not posting here for the purpose of advertising or antagonizing anyone. My purpose is to show members a method that is proven and works. I posted the following article to my users group and blog. I believe you will find what I am posting to be not only credible but a rude awaking to some.

It's proven and works for you. It's not for everybody. I gave it a two month test, and it wasn't doing anything for me. Others may or may not have different results.

[Partsnut]

Hi Tom,

From what I am led to believe, you had a free trial some time back and possibly you never read Randy's book.
I don't think you were ever a subscriber and I can validate that if necessary
So maybe your attempts were self defeating because you gave up with it prematurely or wouldn't open your mind to a great method.

As far as I'm concerned, I could care less if it worked for you or not and for whatever the reason might be.
It works for me and will work for others.

[scgmhawk]

I too read Randy's book and it's helped me a lot to visualize the race better and understand "pace of race" etc. I used the pace appraiser pp's for a month and then dropped my subscription. Not because I didn't like them but because I'm trying out a bunch of different things right now to see what I like the best.

I too am hanging around in the Meadowlands contest but partsnut's kicking my butt right now! Good job!

[njcurveball]

As far as I'm concerned, I could care less if it worked for you or not and for whatever the reason might be.
It works for me and will work for others.

Well you had me in your corner until you turned onto the "I love myself" boulevard and made a right on "I'm great, you suck" drive.

HOW can you know it will work for others? Sounds like you are doing well in a "free" contest, congrats!

It would mean a whole lot more if you ponied up the $1,000 and won the World Series of Handicapping.

Your posts and your "visual aids" paint you as a very narcistic guy who could give a $hit about others.

I guess since we already have a "little guy" with these same traits, we will have to call you the "medium guy".

p.s. I corresponded with Randy Giles over 10 years ago in Newsgroups and think he has some great ideas.

p.s.s. I bought the book and I really like it.

p.s.s.s. You are doing him no favors over here waving "your own flag".

[RichieP]

Parts
Tremendous work man! I don't ever remember hitting 6 races in a row like that.

Awesome stuff and now win the whole thing :ThmbUp:

[shoelessjoe]

Bill,Way to go and keep up the good work.Im rereading Randy's book more slowly this time and think he does a great job of explaining how to use the pace pictures to supplement your handicapping.Jeff

[Doug3312]

Partsnut,

Are you using Pace Appraiser as a stand alone in this contest?

[Tom Barrister]

Hi Tom,

From what I am led to believe, you had a free trial some time back and possibly you never read Randy's book.
I don't think you were ever a subscriber and I can validate that if necessary
So maybe your attempts were self defeating because you gave up with it prematurely or wouldn't open your mind to a great method.

As far as I'm concerned, I could care less if it worked for you or not and for whatever the reason might be.
It works for me and will work for others.

Oh, you can validate it if necessary, eh? Just how can you validate if I was ever a subscriber, UNLESS you work with and/or for Randy Giles?

[cj]

Well you had me in your corner until you turned onto the "I love myself" boulevard and made a right on "I'm great, you suck" drive.

HOW can you know it will work for others? Sounds like you are doing well in a "free" contest, congrats!

It would mean a whole lot more if you ponied up the $1,000 and won the World Series of Handicapping.

Your posts and your "visual aids" paint you as a very narcistic guy who could give a $hit about others.

I guess since we already have a "little guy" with these same traits, we will have to call you the "medium guy".

p.s. I corresponded with Randy Giles over 10 years ago in Newsgroups and think he has some great ideas.

p.s.s. I bought the book and I really like it.

p.s.s.s. You are doing him no favors over here waving "your own flag".

No reason at all to bring other posters into this thread.

[Partsnut]

njcurveball:Well you had me in your corner until you turned onto the "I love myself" boulevard and made a right on "I'm great, you suck" drive.


Tom: Your right, possibly my ego got the best of me.
Let's face it, I like myself and why not? However others will attest to the fact that I do care about them and they like me as well.
I found out early in life that you can't please everyone.
Thanks for your postitve words. I guess something is better then nothing.

[Partsnut]

Tom Barrister: Oh, you can validate it if necessary, eh? Just how can you validate if I was ever a subscriber, UNLESS you work with and/or for Randy Giles?

Tom Barrister, (Name Deleted by moderator) or (Name Deleted by moderator) or whatever your name is today?
Go back to the hole you crawled out of. Get a life.
Your hidden identities do not fool anyone.

[Partsnut]

scgmhawk: [QUOTE]I too read Randy's book and it's helped me a lot to visualize the race better and understand "pace of race" etc. I used the pace appraiser pp's for a month and then dropped my subscription. Not because I didn't like them but because I'm trying out a bunch of different things right now to see what I like the best.

I too am hanging around in the Meadowlands contest but partsnut's kicking my butt right now! Good job!
__________________
Steve, thanks for the kind words.

[Partsnut]

Doug3312: Partsnut,

Are you using Pace Appraiser as a stand alone in this contest?

Doug: Thats all I use.

[Partsnut]

shoelessjoe: Bill,Way to go and keep up the good work.Im rereading Randy's book more slowly this time and think he does a great job of explaining how to use the pace pictures to supplement your handicapping.Jeff

Randy is a great guy and will help anyone. If I can be of help to you I will be there for you.
Thanks for the encouragement and kind words.

[Partsnut]

RichieP: Parts
Tremendous work man! I don't ever remember hitting 6 races in a row like that.

Awesome stuff and now win the whole thing

Hi Ritchie, Your kind words of encouragement are very special to me and very much appreciated. Let bygones be bygones.
You have done great work with the Match-Up and have been the consumate teacher to many. I will root for you in the BRIS finals and hope you finish in the money or possibly on top.

I put some old Italian favorites on my blog which I think you will enjoy.
Pisan, enjoy.
If you like what you hear I'd be happy to send you some old stuff.

[Tom Barrister]

Tom Barrister:

Tom Barrister, (name deleted, so the moderator doesn't have to edit my post) or (name deleted, so the moderator doesn't have to edit my post) or whatever your name is today?
Go back to the hole you crawled out of. Get a life.
Your hidden identities do not fool anyone.

I guess the other two are customers of Mr. Giles, since I don't see either of them on this forum.

I find it interesting that you'd know these names, and I also find it interesting that you'd post real names here on the forum. So in addition to being a scumbag by posting personal information, you either work for Giles, or he freely gives you those names when asked.

I don't know about anybody else, but I'd be afraid to do business with somebody who freely gives out personal information to people and/or posts it on the internet for all to see.

As for you, since you seem to have a direct link to Mr. Giles, that makes you his shill and this thread an unpaid advertisement.

[Tom Barrister]

shoelessjoe:

Randy is a great guy and will help anyone. If I can be of help to you I will be there for you.
Thanks for the encouragement and kind words.

Randy is a prick if he gave you the names of those two people, period. There's no excuse for giving out the personal information of customers to others.

Now if you WORK for Randy, and you simply accessed the information, then Randy is absolved.

Either way, you're a prick.

[Tom Barrister]

Getting back on topic, Partsnut's "answer" to how he would be able to validate whether I am/was a subscriber seems to have been answered by the posting of two names, neither of which are "member" names in this forum or real names I've seen posted on this forum before. Whose names are they? Apparently Partsnut believes that they're mine.

The question that now begs answering is this: If either/both of these people are suspected to be me (and it's absurd to think they're pulled from thin air), then how did Partsnut get the names? I can only see two possibilities:

1) He's an associate of Mr. Giles and has access to the customer database.

2) He's close enough to Mr. Giles that the latter would give him the names of customers.

If the former, then this has been an unabashed advertisement from the moment Partsnut entered the thread, and the "I'm just an enthusiastic suppoter" routine is a bunch of bull manure.

If the latter, then Mr. Giles shares confidential information with parties who don't protect such information---bluntly, who post such information on the internet for all to see.

Either way, the free dissemination of, or free access to, what is supposed to be confidential information isn't the best way to run a business.

[Partsnut]

Tom Barrister: You can rant and rave all you want.

The fact is that you tried to apply to my users group using some of your phony identities. You claimed to be a subscriber of PaceAppraiser so I did check you out.
The only thing you were was a liar and a phoney.

I would never have a disgruntled piece of crap like you in my group.

You've made it a point to say that I was involved in Randy's business, which is totally ridiculous. Now you have openly insulted one of horse racings finest gentleman.

If I moderated this board you would never be here.
I would trash you as I do all my garbage in a NY minute.

Now I can see why you gave up on PaceAppraiser. Your too stupid to figure it out.
As I said before, get a life moron.

[Tom Barrister]

Tom Barrister: You can rant and rave all you want.

The fact is that you tried to apply to my users group using some of your phony identities. You claimed to be a subscriber of PaceAppraiser so I did check you out.
The only thing you were was a liar and a phoney.

I would never have a disgruntled piece of crap like you in my group.

You've made it a point to say that I was involved in Randy's business, which is totally ridiculous. Now you have openly insulted one of horse racings finest gentleman.

If I moderated this board you would never be here.
I would trash you as I do all my garbage in a NY minute.

Now I can see why you gave up on PaceAppraiser. Your too stupid to figure it out.
As I said before, get a life moron.

Well, you've certainly shown your true colors here: listing real names, making accusations that you don't have any proof of, and flaming everybody who doesn't agree that PaceAppraiser is the best program on the planet (it's not in the top 10, in my opinion, others may have different views).

Mr. Giles is at fault here. It doesn't matter if all you did was ask: "Randy, is Joe Public and/or John Anybody a PaceAppraiser user?" It's never cool for a vendor to give personal information to anybody but law enforcement officials with the proper warrants or court orders, unless the end user consents to such. When I signed up, I didn't see anything that gave or implied consent to give out my personal information. I don't do business with vendors who enagage in such policies, so my use of PaceAppraiser is at an end. Others can decide for themselves.

You're at fault here, as well. Putting the name calling aside, you're guilty of three serious infractions of Netiquette: you've gone to Mr. Giles to get confidential information (names), you've posted those names in this thread ( it doesn't matter if they're real or aliases), and you've implied or flat stated that I'm both of those people (which isn't correct) while inferring that one of the names is actually me as a subscriber to PaceAppraiser.

I can infer that you didn't grant either user permission to access your user group. That's a poor way to promote Mr. Giles's program, but that's your business (and his).

While I don't know PA's criteria, I'd venture that the chances of you being a moderator here are about as good as that of Osama bin Laden being invited to dinner at the White House.

As for the program, I don't believe it would be useful to anybody but hardcore pace handicappers. In my opinion, it will just confuse others and point them away from other criteria.

One other point: you claim that you only use PaceAppraiser, yet I see several references here and elsewhere to Synergism VI. Unlike you, I won't make an accusation based on that; others can decide for themselves, if they haven't already come to a conclusion about you.

[Partsnut]

Tom, Frank or whomever you are.

Now your attacking Randy. who by the way is well respected by myself and many of the members on this board, for letting me know that your not who you said you are?
How can you betray a customers confidentiality, if the so called customer does not exist?
I am completely within my rights to check out anyone that applies to my group. It is common in business to check out a company or an individual.
When you post on the internet you are giving up your right to privacy and anonimity.

Get off it already. Do you have an email address listed on this board?
I don't think so.

If PaceAppraiser doesn't work for you that's great.
It doesn't do you any justice and shows a major flaws in your character to openly assault something or somebody you admit is not for you.

Now that you've attacked me, Randy and PaceAppraiser, whats next? Go ahead, make a complete fool out of yourself. Maybe one day you'll tell us who you really are.

[PaceAdvantage]

You two guys crack me up...funny stuff....

Two guys who don't know each other going on and on about something nobody really cares about....:lol:

Can you two get a grip? Thanks.

Now I think I shall close this thread for the betterment of all.