NYRA Takeout Up Up and & Away!

[Mr. Nobody]

Will be 16% on win, 18.5% on exactas and doubles and 26%(!) on everything else. Horseplayers who play NYRA exotics = idiots.

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A11635&sh=t

[levinmpa]

Racing and those that control and legislate the sport continue to do just the opposite of what they should do. They need to compete for the gambling dollar, not turn people away. Casino's, Poker and lotteries are everywhere. Racing does not have a monopoly on the gambling dollar like they did a couple of decades ago. They need to compete for those dollars. Raising the takeout is not competing. No serious young person that understands the mathematics of the takeout will venture into this game. Poker, and sportsbetting are the choice of the younger set because the takeout is minimal and gives the good player a fighting chance.

[trigger]

Enough already! Time to take a stand.
For starters, (1)suggest that PA/MB members develop an ad for the DRF protesting the proposed NYRA takeout increases ; (2)find out how much it costs; (3)get contributions from PA/MB members to cover the cost of the ad and get it published.

[slewis]

Racing and those that control and legislate the sport continue to do just the opposite of what they should do. They need to compete for the gambling dollar, not turn people away. Casino's, Poker and lotteries are everywhere. Racing does not have a monopoly on the gambling dollar like they did a couple of decades ago. They need to compete for those dollars. Raising the takeout is not competing. No serious young person that understands the mathematics of the takeout will venture into this game. Poker, and sportsbetting are the choice of the younger set because the takeout is minimal and gives the good player a fighting chance.

Good point... but here's a better one....

Those who control and legislate the ENTIRE USA (2008) continue to do just the opposite of what they should.
SO... why should racing be different???

[SMOO]

Racing and those that control and legislate the sport continue to do just the opposite of what they should do. They need to compete for the gambling dollar, not turn people away. Casino's, Poker and lotteries are everywhere. Racing does not have a monopoly on the gambling dollar like they did a couple of decades ago. They need to compete for those dollars. Raising the takeout is not competing. No serious young person that understands the mathematics of the takeout will venture into this game. Poker, and sportsbetting are the choice of the younger set because the takeout is minimal and gives the good player a fighting chance.

Good post. :ThmbUp:

[1st time lasix]

is that higher rate currently in effect or just proposed????

[Figman]

I believe that the higher rates go into effect on September 16th. It was signed into law on June 16th. Sections two, twenty-two, twenty-three and twenty-four all have to do with upped percentages of takeout.

S.32 - This act shall take effect immediately; provided that sections two, twenty-two, twenty-three and twenty-four of this act shall take effect on the ninetieth day after it shall have become a law and shall expire and be deemed repealed two years after such effective date.

It should be a great Saratoga Racecourse meet.

[samyn on the green]

Horrific government corruption continues in New York. Fueled by the liberal misconception that that a large government will cure all socials ills, OTB has forced the NY government to raise NYRA takeout across the board. The government continues to grow year after year in New York like a malignant tumor. 26% takeout on pick 4's is a horrific cross to bear for horseplayers. NYRA has had some handle growth this year and NYRA was completely dominating Magna, Twin Spires tracks and Keeneland this year. Now with the takeout increasing the churn is going to drop and the NYRA handle growth will reverse to a handle dip. The total amount that the government leaches from horseplayers will dip as the handle crashes due to the increased takeout.

[Hosshead]

Anybody have the "before and after" takeout rates of the particular bets ?
So how close are their exotic takeouts to the other hightake tracks now?
I'm surprised they didn't try to screw the racefans even more, with dime breakage.
Or did they?

[the little guy]

Good point... but here's a better one....

Those who control and legislate the ENTIRE USA (2008) continue to do just the opposite of what they should.
SO... why should racing be different???


Sadly this is especially relevent given the Federal Government just started holding hearing involving Horse Racing.

[Zman179]

And here's the icing on the cake:

According to the bill, all bets placed on out-of-state tracks will be taxed at the host track's current rate PLUS 1%. If I'm reading the bill correctly, this 1% addition in the takeout will also be in effect for bets made on-track with NYRA on out-of-state races.
So if someone is playing a trifecta at Penn National at an OTB branch, the bettor will pay a 31% retention rate, plus 1% for the State of New York, plus a 6% surcharge on winnings for a total rake of 38%.

It also appears to me that the rake on parlay bets would rise from 15% to 18.5%.

[mannyberrios]

And here's the icing on the cake:

According to the bill, all bets placed on out-of-state tracks will be taxed at the host track's current rate PLUS 1%. If I'm reading the bill correctly, this 1% addition in the takeout will also be in effect for bets made on-track with NYRA on out-of-state races.
So if someone is playing a trifecta at Penn National at an OTB branch, the bettor will pay a 31% retention rate, plus 1% for the State of New York, plus a 6% surcharge on winnings for a total rake of 38%.

It also appears to me that the rake on parlay bets would rise from 15% to 18.5%.:bang: :ThmbDown: That is bad news!

[Robert Fischer]

As long as the majority of us are separated like a pair of wide open legs, we the horseplayer are going to get ****ed.

Are you willing to stop betting for a month or two? Are you willing to interact with human beings in a unified effort? Are you willing to stick your side agendas and money making schemes up your ass and concentrate on accomplishing a few basic objectives for the unified group?

maybe a few points takeout is just a lot easier to take then going through all that huh

[applebee]

just remember in horse racing you get to see the hand before you ante up.

[affirmedny]

Enough already! Time to take a stand.
For starters, (1)suggest that PA/MB members develop an ad for the DRF protesting the proposed NYRA takeout increases ; (2)find out how much it costs; (3)get contributions from PA/MB members to cover the cost of the ad and get it published.

I don't think the people you're trying to reach are going to see an ad in the DRF. NY times is the only paper that it will have any impact.

[Cangamble]

John Q. Smith has $5000 he is willing to lose betting in NY during the year.
By raising the takeout, all that will happen is John will lose the $5000 faster. In fact, as players lose money collectively, they are unlikely to find new money to play with.
There won't be a dime more lost in NY thanks to the takeout increase. More likely, more people will be turned off, and the cumulative loss will be less because people will quit, or bet less.

[DeanT]

As long as the majority of us are separated like a pair of wide open legs, we the horseplayer are going to get ****ed.

Are you willing to stop betting for a month or two? Are you willing to interact with human beings in a unified effort? Are you willing to stick your side agendas and money making schemes up your ass and concentrate on accomplishing a few basic objectives for the unified group?

maybe a few points takeout is just a lot easier to take then going through all that huh

I would.

I have had a good year this year on NYRA tracks. That good year in taking account the weighted average takeout increase is now negative in looking at my stats. I will not play where I have no shot to win. So count me in.

[cj]

just remember in horse racing you get to see the hand before you ante up.

Maybe, but you don't get to know how big the pot is.

[Cangamble]

just remember in horse racing you get to see the hand before you ante up.
Hardly. You don't get to know how sharp or sore the horse really is today or the trainer's intentions.

There are a lot of hole cards.

[badcompany]

As long as the majority of us are separated like a pair of wide open legs, we the horseplayer are going to get ****ed.

Are you willing to stop betting for a month or two?

I'm down to betting one month out of the year, August. Saratoga Racetrack during the day, and the Racino at night. F&CK OTB. Only under extraordinary circumstances will I ever place another bet, there.

At this point, there's simply too many things stacked against the horseplayer to make this anything but a bad game.

Almost everyone on this board would be better off studying Annual Reports and Stock charts instead of the form.

[takeout]

Are you willing to stop betting for a month or two?
I could do that standing on my head. Others? Maybe a poll would be interesting if there hasn’t already been one.

[trigger]

I don't think the people you're trying to reach are going to see an ad in the DRF. NY times is the only paper that it will have any impact.

Good idea! Who will start it off with a draft message for the ad? (I'm not good at reducing ideas to paper). At least, we could make our ideas on takeout known to the public....who knows where it could lead.
Right now, all we do is just bitch among ourselves.

[Niko]

As long as the majority of us are separated like a pair of wide open legs, we the horseplayer are going to get ****ed.

Are you willing to stop betting for a month or two? Are you willing to interact with human beings in a unified effort? Are you willing to stick your side agendas and money making schemes up your ass and concentrate on accomplishing a few basic objectives for the unified group?

maybe a few points takeout is just a lot easier to take then going through all that huh

As long as handle doesn't go down too much and profit stays the same or higher, they will be able to justify the higher track take in their minds and pocket book, regardless of the long term effect.. The whales still have the 10% rebate. Until it becomes unbearable for them and they start withholding their money, things won't change. The other option is for the smaller bettors to band together so the whales have to feed off themselves. Then maybe the rebates and/or track take will change.

Money in the pools is the only thing that will do the talking. Advertisements and pleas for help won't work, or they would have already..that's wasted time and money. So what month, dates or track do we all boycott? I don't have the time to organize it, but I'm willing to participate. I don't think it would be a good idea to do it during a premier meet or premier race day though.

And if it works for New York, others will follow.

[samyn on the green]

NYRA is 99% of my action, I like playing NYRA and I do not want to stop playing NYRA it is the circuit I love to play. However the elected thieves have pulled too hard on my udder and I have to stop lactating for these scumbags and floating their bureaucratic scams and huge government waste. Starting the 14th of Sept we all have to boycott New York for the foreseeable future. They can not continue ot raise taxes and grow their government scams while we get squeezed harder and harder. They have to learn to stunt the growth of their corruption like we have learned to live within our means.

[trigger]

As long as handle doesn't go down too much and profit stays the same or higher, they will be able to justify the higher track take in their minds and pocket book, regardless of the long term effect.. The whales still have the 10% rebate. Until it becomes unbearable for them and they start withholding their money, things won't change. The other option is for the smaller bettors to band together so the whales have to feed off themselves. Then maybe the rebates and/or track take will change.

Money in the pools is the only thing that will do the talking. Advertisements and pleas for help won't work, or they would have already..that's wasted time and money. So what month, dates or track do we all boycott? I don't have the time to organize it, but I'm willing to participate. I don't think it would be a good idea to do it during a premier meet or premier race day though.

And if it works for New York, others will follow.

I don't recall an ad protesting higher takeouts by horseplayers ever being published. Perhaps, such an ad will get the attention of the feds/ congress.
Anyway, I agree that a boycott is the ultimate weapon but for the next one we need to rally all the troops (not just PA MB members) before we do it.
Maybe a boycott every(say) Thursday would be a good target but first we need to get the word out!

[mannyberrios]

And here's the icing on the cake:

According to the bill, all bets placed on out-of-state tracks will be taxed at the host track's current rate PLUS 1%. If I'm reading the bill correctly, this 1% addition in the takeout will also be in effect for bets made on-track with NYRA on out-of-state races.
So if someone is playing a trifecta at Penn National at an OTB branch, the bettor will pay a 31% retention rate, plus 1% for the State of New York, plus a 6% surcharge on winnings for a total rake of 38%.

It also appears to me that the rake on parlay bets would rise from 15% to 18.5%.
Just Win, Place, Show Please.:bang:

[BCOURTNEY]

Shame the naive opinon of the politicans is that a horseplayer plays the races like a lottery and not an investment. They need an education about the differences in a zero and non zero sum game. This will continue as long as horse wagering is associated with social stigma and appears to resemble "gambling" which is it certainly not. Someone needs to hire an expert in gambling and investments and game theory and have them give a speech to these morons.
Daytrading looks more and more appealing every day, and hey, it has no conotations of gambling. Lol.

[rrbauer]

Enough already! Time to take a stand.
For starters, (1)suggest that PA/MB members develop an ad for the DRF protesting the proposed NYRA takeout increases ; (2)find out how much it costs; (3)get contributions from PA/MB members to cover the cost of the ad and get it published.

You don't need to spend a DIME to protest takeout increases or any other annoying aspect of horse racing. You don't have to spend ANYTHING....and, that has been my point from the get-go. If our money isn't there then 16% or 26% or whatever of zero equals ZERO. Until that becomes the mindset of horseplayers interested in seeing change in the horseracing industry and that mindset translates into action (or, in this case, non-action!) the status quo will prevail, horseplayers will continue to be screwed over, under and sideways and nothing will change.

[trigger]

You don't need to spend a DIME to protest takeout increases or any other annoying aspect of horse racing. You don't have to spend ANYTHING....and, that has been my point from the get-go. If our money isn't there then 16% or 26% or whatever of zero equals ZERO. Until that becomes the mindset of horseplayers interested in seeing change in the horseracing industry and that mindset translates into action (or, in this case, non-action!) the status quo will prevail, horseplayers will continue to be screwed over, under and sideways and nothing will change.

Yea, but the horseplayers have to be organized in some manner. How do you propose that gets done?
Take a look at the horseplayer comments to Crist's blog about the NYOTB... deal . http://cristblog.drf.com/crist/2008/06/another-legisla.html
The players are B/S about the takeout increase with some proposing boycotts of varying nature ( I like the no betting on Saratoga's first race) but nothing worthwhile will happen unless everyone does it together.

[fouroneone]

Takeout "up, up and away"??????

You takeout nazis really have to overdramaticize everything, dont you?

Did you know the state wanted to raise takeout 2.5% but it was hammered down to 1% in negotiations?

Everyone wants to play New York tracks, but no one wants to pay for them.

[turfbar]

A little off-track, the racing in NY has declined repeatedly.I remember when they introduced NYS bred races only 1 a day ,now they have as many as 4 a day on cheap awful NYS bred horses , I refuse to bet them, the racing here sux, the only jewel is Saratoga ,but you can see that declining as well.Wonder how many will ship here considering the cost of travel with the fuel increases. my .02 cents

Turfbar

[rrbauer]

NYRA is 99% of my action, I like playing NYRA and I do not want to stop playing NYRA it is the circuit I love to play. However the elected thieves have pulled too hard on my udder and I have to stop lactating for these scumbags and floating their bureaucratic scams and huge government waste. Starting the 14th of Sept we all have to boycott New York for the foreseeable future. They can not continue ot raise taxes and grow their government scams while we get squeezed harder and harder. They have to learn to stunt the growth of their corruption like we have learned to live within our means.

I'm not playing NY now; other than the Spa I don't play NY much at all. I will support Sept 14th as a begin date. I will promote a boycott and will donate a page on my trackthieves web site to comments that anyone wants to make regarding this situation. If enough folks are willing to get involved I will setup a new web site and pick up the tab for it.

The new page will be up this weekend (June 21-22) for comments that anyone wants to make on this issue.

[rrbauer]

Takeout "up, up and away"??????

You takeout nazis really have to overdramaticize everything, dont you?



Why don't you take your "nazi" comments and stick them up your ass?


Did you know the state wanted to raise takeout 2.5% but it was hammered down to 1% in negotiations?


How many horseplayers were at that negotiation table?


Everyone wants to play New York tracks, but no one wants to pay for them.

Who is "everyone"? Not me. And, not a whole lot of other folks who post at this board. What does your paycheck stub say? NYRA or NYC OTB?

[Cangamble]

Takeout "up, up and away"??????

You takeout nazis really have to overdramaticize everything, dont you?

Did you know the state wanted to raise takeout 2.5% but it was hammered down to 1% in negotiations?

Everyone wants to play New York tracks, but no one wants to pay for them.
How is raising the takeout going to mean more money for New York tracks?
You just don't get it. If anything, less money will now be lost on New York racing by the people who matter the most, as Jerry Bailey says in his info commercial....THE FANS.

[takeout]

Looks to me like the tracks in California and Kentucky are about the only ones left that haven’t relegated themselves to bullring status, takeout-wise.

[rrbauer]

I'm not playing NY now; other than the Spa I don't play NY much at all. I will support Sept 14th as a begin date. I will promote a boycott and will donate a page on my trackthieves web site to comments that anyone wants to make regarding this situation. If enough folks are willing to get involved I will setup a new web site and pick up the tab for it.

The new page will be up this weekend (June 21-22) for comments that anyone wants to make on this issue.

Go to www.trackthieves.com and click the "High Takeout" link. References to the NY Takeout bill and a Comments structure are in place now. Where this goes from here will be strictly up to those who give a damn.