POLL

[jasperson]

I would like to see a poll of number of members of this forum realy think that BB could have won Belmont with a perfect ride by KD.

[cmoore]

I would like to see a poll of number of members of this forum realy think that BB could have won Belmont with a perfect ride by KD.

Pick any jockey in the world...BB wouldn't of won any Graded race anywhere that day..

[JustRalph]

then why didn't you post a poll???

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't think he would have won with a perfect ride. However, I think he would have finished in a much better position.

With all the other possible contributors to his terrible showing (foot, training, heat, acting up in the detention barn etc.) do you not think the trip -

poor break
unneccesary manhandling going into that first turn
WIDE WIDE WIDE trip around the first turn
UNBELIEVABLY WIDE TRIP down the backstretch (thereby running on a much DEEPER part of the track)
WIDE WIDE WIDE trip around the final turn
- did not impact the outcome in a significant way?

[cmoore]

BB was winded on the backstretch and they didn't even run a mile yet..He just didn't have it..His tank was mt..If he runs again, he should return to his old ways if healthy..

[Marshall Bennett]

Big Brown losing the Belmont reminded me a lot of Mike Tyson losing to Buster Douglas . I beleive even with a perfect trip and perfect ride he would have run out of gas and may have still finished last . His heart wasn't at the racetrack .

[pedigreeman]

This was a good article. http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45678.htm

[v j stauffer]

He wouldn't have won with a 50 yard headstart.

[David-LV]

He wouldn't have won with a 50 yard headstart.


Agreed, this was a case of a horse that was undertrained because of circumstances beyond the control of the connections racing a distance that he will never run at again.

To blame KD for his ride is just sour grapes.

In fact KD did all he could to prevent the horse from running up on the heels of Da'Tara.

Big Brown should bounce back. Right now he is a special horse but not a great horse.;)

________
David

[Bruddah]

He wouldn't have won with a 50 yard headstart.


I read this article posted by pedigreeman http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45678.htm and Billy Turner tells it like it is, Vic Stauffer, also knows it. I will also say, I think the inside post had something to do with it. As stated by his trainer when he chose to put BB in the 20 hole in the Ky Derby. BB does not like horses on his outside. Note the outcome when in the 12 hole in the Florida Derby.

Plain and simple there was more than one culprit in the defeat of BB. Feet = pedigree, Lack of conditioning = trainer, Poor Post Position = luck of the draw, Poor ride = jockey failed to persist. Put them all together and they = BB loses the Belmont. Folks should stop looking for one single fault to blame. There was enough to go around for all. :ThmbUp:

[jasperson]

then why didn't you post a poll???
I would have but I did know I could

[Marshall Bennett]

He wouldn't have won with a 50 yard headstart.
Doesn't matter , would have still run out of gas .

[Steve 'StatMan']

Seeing what I've seen, reading what I've read, BB would not have won the Belmont that day.

However, this might seem obvious to some, but if the KY Derby & Preakness were 1 1/2 miles, he'd have still won both of those races vs those fields on those days.

[levinmpa]

I say no. I think his light training during the 5 week triple crown stretch, and the fact that he missed 3 days of training is what did him in. If he was a truly great horse, he would have overcome the missed training, early trouble, the heat, the crowd and whatever else was thrown at him. He didn't clip heals or get stopped cold. It just wasn't his day. The great ones can overcome what Big Brown couldn't. He met possibly the weakest field I've ever seen in the Belmont. For god sakes, they ran 2:29 and change. Can you imagine what Affirmed would have done to this group. We all desperately want to see a Triple Crown winner, and the buildup to the possibility makes the disappointment that much greater. We look for excuses, when sometimes there aren't any. These days, with 24/7 sports coverage, and the internet, we all like to play the blame game. When Barbaro broke down, he couldn't have possibly just taken a bad step. The vet must have missed something after he broke through the gate, or NBC did not give the vet enough time to look at him because they needed to get the race started. Sometimes we just need to look for an excuse that isn't there, to comfort our own disappointment. My take is that Big Brown just wasn't good enough, good trip or not. I don't think his connections will be planning any meetings with Curlin any time soon.

[njcurveball]

I know I will be in the minority here, but if he goes up the rail and stays out of trouble he could have took a hold on the backstretch and had some horse left. There wasn't anyone making up ground on the leader, so all he had to do was stay close and pass a NW1 allowance horse.

It is funny that the same people who were saying he could be 80% and still beat this terrible field, now finds the jock blameless for him losing to it.

[joanied]

Voting yes is sure not getting many hits!!!
I think BB winning would have had to had more than a perfect ride, at least on that day...everything would have had to be perfect...his training scheduel, his time at the detention barn...I don't think his feet were an issue on Belmont Day...but I beleive everything else was.
A perfect ride...well, IMO, he would have just made it to the wire...sorta like Affirmed.

[broadreach]

How can there be any votes for a 'yes':bang:

[garyoz]

Hope the people who vote yes bet into the same pools that I'm betting into.

[mannyberrios]

Agreed, this was a case of a horse that was undertrained because of circumstances beyond the control of the connections racing a distance that he will never run at again.

To blame KD for his ride is just sour grapes.

In fact KD did all he could to prevent the horse from running up on the heels of Da'Tara.

Big Brown should bounce back. Right now he is a special horse but not a great horse.;)

________
DavidA great horse he is:ThmbUp:

[joanied]

A great horse he is:ThmbUp:

I agree :ThmbUp: (as I posted already)
:jump: :jump: :jump:

[banacek]

I don't think he would have won with a perfect ride. However, I think he would have finished in a much better position.

With all the other possible contributors to his terrible showing (foot, training, heat, acting up in the detention barn etc.) do you not think the trip -

poor break
unneccesary manhandling going into that first turn
WIDE WIDE WIDE trip around the first turn
UNBELIEVABLY WIDE TRIP down the backstretch (thereby running on a much DEEPER part of the track)
WIDE WIDE WIDE trip around the final turn
- did not impact the outcome in a significant way?

100% agree. I'm not sure he would have won, but I think he could have won. I honestly think if KD would have taken him to the lead and he certainly could have - with the rail and those fractions, he'd could have won..the only thing is the questionable prepping for a mile and a half by Dutrow - he simply might not have been prepared regardless.

[so.cal.fan]

I agree with Vic S. who watches and calls enough races to know.
You take a three year old colt, have him run 3 of the toughest races he'll ever run within too short of a time span, couple it with a distance he has never run, a foot that isn't 100%, a very hot day........it was not all that much of a surprise.
The Belmont at 1 1/2 miles for 3 year olds in early June is about as tough as it gets.
I doubt I'll ever see another triple crown winner in my lifetime, for a number of reasons that have been posted and a few that couldn't be posted.
Big Brown is still a grand horse....I sure hope he gets a good rest, comes back tough as we know he is.
I would love to see him at Santa Anita this fall, if he is healthy.

[DeanT]

How can there be any votes for a 'yes':bang:
So far 5. I a betting it is Rick Dutrow and four family members :)

[ranchwest]

Big Brown losing the Belmont reminded me a lot of Mike Tyson losing to Buster Douglas . I beleive even with a perfect trip and perfect ride he would have run out of gas and may have still finished last . His heart wasn't at the racetrack .

It wasn't his heart that was missing. It was his body. This horse did not present in the post parade as he had previously.

I really like KD, but he gave a terrible ride. Even an excellent ride would not have won the race.

I guess it's true. Opinions are like noses (or whatever), everybody's got one. Now you have mine.

[njcurveball]

Hope the people who vote yes bet into the same pools that I'm betting into.

It is the contrarian opinion that profits in this game. The "herd" instinct here is the same one that made him 2-5 in the race.

[KirisClown]

Both options should be "no"

[joanied]

100% agree. I'm not sure he would have won, but I think he could have won. I honestly think if KD would have taken him to the lead and he certainly could have - with the rail and those fractions, he'd could have won..the only thing is the questionable prepping for a mile and a half by Dutrow - he simply might not have been prepared regardless.

I agree with you, Banacek... I've said it here before...KD should have went for the lead...despite all the yanking & crushing at the start..BB saw the rail wide open and wanted to go for it...KD chose to yank him to the outside...mistake.

[racefinder2]

Im weighing in as no, BARELY...

Not that we will ever know. Maybe BB just had a bad day. What do I know-Im just a voyeur in all this.

Yet I NEVER have seen a race, with the highest stakes on the line, in which
horse and rider were so hopelessly out of sync. Wrangling him back after the
break, then jerking him hard and back and then to the outside. Even then, chasing after the front runners out wide in the backstretch, instead of settling him down. These kind of reaction-moves smack of immaturity and impatience. Heck, the horse WAS running rank early on, but then again, isnt it the jockeys JOB to patiently settle him down and at least get him to run his race after a break like that?

I was expecting at least a valiant try in a race this big, just....SOMETHING. Instead, this represented a CHOKE of monumental proportions, in a performance eerily reminiscent of Ricks Natural Star in the Breeders Cup.