Dutrow's Curlin remark pre-belmont

[Moyers Pond]

"I don’t know what they (Curlin’s connections) are going to do. I would like to see them run together, it would be good for racing and good for us; it won’t be so good for them.”


Had to bring that one up, because it is the front-runner for the Eclipse for dumbest comment of the year by a trainer.


I wonder if he feels the same after today.

[Tom]

Especially after Curlin ran the race - on the rail - "Dutrow's Dummies" should have run. A lesson in how to stay on the rail and win. I can't wait until this gasbag Dutrow gets grilled by the gasbags in congress. Dumb and dumber part II.:lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

The fact that Dutrow has so many people STILL riled up, means he's probably doing something right....:lol:

[The Hawk]

I don't think they're riled up, I think they're thoroughly enjoying the fact that he was humiliated in the Belmont.

[Shenanigans]

The fact that Dutrow has so many people STILL riled up, means he's probably doing something right....:lol:

I'm not riled up at all. I almost feel vindicated. The man got what he deserved. Him saying what he did about Curlin even makes it more humorous. The man is a dunce and hopefully he has learned a little about being humble and maybe thinking before opening his trap. Of course, according to Servis, Dutrow has never been capable of doing that.:lol:

[Tom]

I'm just hoping his big mouth draws the attention of the big egoes in Congress who might need a fool to make an example of. Can't think of a better candate than Dutrow. :lol:

[Moyers Pond]

The fact that Dutrow has so many people STILL riled up, means he's probably doing something right....:lol:

Actually it just seems like each week in a big race a horse proves dutrow wrong. Big Brown beating Curlin is hilarious. It wouldn't shock me if Big Brown never won a race again. You want to talk about a horse losing value. If he loses his next race he is going to get the stall right next to Point Given. The two of them can fight it out for the king of the $15K stallions. :lol:

[GlenninOhio]

Actually it just seems like each week in a big race a horse proves dutrow wrong. Big Brown beating Curlin is hilarious. It wouldn't shock me if Big Brown never won a race again. You want to talk about a horse losing value. If he loses his next race he is going to get the stall right next to Point Given. The two of them can fight it out for the king of the $15K stallions. :lol:

I've been wondering for a while now whether "stallion value" and ultimate stud fees are going to begin to be seriously impacted by the credibility of the trainer of the horse in question.

I feel the BB situation only brings this question into sharper focus.

If you as a breeder have concerns about the extent to which on track performance was "manufactured", you will either avoid that stud altogether or balk at paying too much for the privilege.

(In anticipation of the "everybody uses steroids" and "even Bill Mott was fined for a drug positive" rejoinders, I'm talking here about decisions that breeders have to make that are mostly at the gut level. And at the gut level, the credibility of a Mott vs. a Dutrow doesn't even merit a blink of an eye.)

[Stevie Belmont]

Dutrow has a lot of confidence, and I liked his horse a lot becuase he was fastest of this bunch, but the Curlin comment was bold as bold is.

Curlin is tops in the world. He is a tremendous animal. Dickie might want to rethink those words.

[Shenanigans]

Dutrow has a lot of confidence, and I liked his horse a lot becuase he was fastest of this bunch, but the Curlin comment was bold as bold is.

Curlin is tops in the world. He is a tremendous animal. Dickie might want to rethink those words.

Yep, Curlin is the top and if there is a horse out there right now that can be callled a monster it's him. I really don't see this horse getting beat the rest of his career.

[Pace Cap'n]

It was classy of the HRTV guy who interviewed Jess Jackson to thank him for running Curlin as a four-year-old.

[Bruddah]

I'm just hoping his big mouth draws the attention of the big egoes in Congress who might need a fool to make an example of. Can't think of a better candate than Dutrow. :lol:


Than those in our U.S. Congress. Ever since the 1950's these people have done nothing more than "feather bed" their positions. Each decade of the power hungry has enriched themselves more than the previous generation. Most of them don't know the front end, from the back end, of a North bound Jackass. :mad: :(

[Stevie Belmont]

He might not get beat again, but we know how that goes.

Mr Prospector is a legend and it looks like Curlin is on his way to being one to, and in the shed.

Anything could happen, but taking a crack in the Arc would be tremendous. Win that and he stamps himself a legitimate All-Time great.

Lets not get carried away either, who could be retired tomorrow. Hopefully he just keeps running. I'm enjoying it.

[WJ47]

Will it be televised when Dutrow speaks to Congress? That will be great; this guy obviously cannot control his mouth at all. God only knows what will pop out of his mouth when he goes before Congress.

I cannot believe that he suggested that Big Brown would beat Curlin.

[Hank]

He might not get beat again, but we know how that goes.

Mr Prospector is a legend and it looks like Curlin is on his way to being one to, and in the shed.

Anything could happen, but taking a crack in the Arc would be tremendous. Win that and he stamps himself a legitimate All-Time great.

Lets not get carried away either, who could be retired tomorrow. Hopefully he just keeps running. I'm enjoying it.

I pray a good horse never falls into your hands.:lol:

[46zilzal]

Anything could happen, but taking a crack in the Arc would be tremendous. Win that and he stamps himself a legitimate All-Time great.

Lets not get carried away either, who could be retired tomorrow. Hopefully he just keeps running. I'm enjoying it.

He has run HOW MANY TIMES on the lawn??

Longchamps is tough even for the experienced horse as the stretch is UP HILL.

[RichieP]

"I don’t know what they (Curlin’s connections) are going to do. I would like to see them run together, it would be good for racing and good for us; it won’t be so good for them.”


BB would defeat Curlin assuming both are healthy and rested. He's too fast and not even a 'growed ass man" yet :)

[46zilzal]

BB would defeat Curlin assuming both are healthy and rested. He's too fast and not even a 'growed ass man" yet.

At a distance of ground? 10 furlongs? As much as I like speed horses, in a match race he would have the slight advantage (Nashua/Swaps, Typecast/Convenience, Seabiscuit/War Admiral, Affimred/Alydar or Sunday Silence/Easy Goer ) but in a field of horses: NO match.

[ghostyapper]

BB would defeat Curlin assuming both are healthy and rested. He's too fast and not even a 'growed ass man" yet :)

A 3yo Curlin would defeat brown by open lengths. A 4yo curlin would eat him for lunch

[46zilzal]

When Devil's Bag was tearing up the track many were asking Woody: "Where does this one rank in being great?"

Stephens:"You never really know about a horse that simply runs away from all of it's competition. I want to see another horse look him in the eye in the late part of a race. THEN we will know where to rank him. Until then, he is a very fast good one."

BB has not even come close to that test and Curlin has multiple times in all conditions.

[Tom]

Didn't Devil's Bag wilt like a green salad with hot bacon drippings for a dressing before the Derby?

[46zilzal]

Didn't Devil's Bag wilt like a green salad with hot bacon drippings for a dressing before the Derby?
Yes, due to and injured foreleg (chipped knee) as they were trying to get him to Baltimore.

[Tom]

Thanks, I thought I remebered that.

[Burls]

BB would defeat Curlin assuming both are healthy and rested. He's too fast and not even a 'growed ass man" yet :)
Curlin and Big Brown were the same age and at the same stage of their career when they each won their respective Preakness. If memory serves me right Curlin's speed figure was about 5 points higher than Big Brown's.

[46zilzal]

Curlin and Big Brown were the same age and at the same stage of their career when they each won their respective Preakness. If memory serves me right Curlin's speed figure was about 5 points higher than Big Brown's.
As much as I am not a fan of BB, that comparison is crazy since he was geared down a 1/16 or even an 1/8th before the wire....

[46zilzal]

Anything could happen, but taking a crack in the Arc would be tremendous. Win that and he stamps himself a legitimate All-Time great.

If memory serves, only the great Tom Rolfe ever tried it and he could only get 6th. A very tough task.

[ghostyapper]

As much as I am not a fan of BB, that comparison is crazy since he was geared down a 1/16 or even an 1/8th before the wire....

But he did not also blow the turn and have trouble changing leads in the stretch like curlin did. Even with those troubles he still almost set the track record.

[ArlJim78]

a few comments:

dutrow is a windbag dunce who will be right in his element when he goes to congress.

Big Brown couldn't carry Curlins jock. we've seen his best race already and if he wins or even races again is a big question.

I really admire Curlin for how solid and professional and consistent he is. thank god we're getting to see this guy run this year.

with that said, I have to say that this idea of running him in the arc is ridiculous. I first took it to be mere hot air aimed at trying to influence the track surface decision at Santa Anita. however they keep bringing it up and Sunday morning Assmussen was talking about whether to prep at arlington or Belmont "because they are most like Longchamp"!!! is he really that misinformed? the Arc is a totally different game, for a different style of horse.
with Curlins size, runstyle, and lack of turf experience I would expect that he would be schooled over there big time running up that hill.

[cj]

a few comments:

dutrow is a windbag dunce who will be right in his element when he goes to congress.

Big Brown couldn't carry Curlins jock. we've seen his best race already and if he wins or even races again is a big question.

I really admire Curlin for how solid and professional and consistent he is. thank god we're getting to see this guy run this year.

with that said, I have to say that this idea of running him in the arc is ridiculous. I first took it to be mere hot air aimed at trying to influence the track surface decision at Santa Anita. however they keep bringing it up and Sunday morning Assmussen was talking about whether to prep at arlington or Belmont "because they are most like Longchamp"!!! is he really that misinformed? the Arc is a totally different game, for a different style of horse.
with Curlins size, runstyle, and lack of turf experience I would expect that he would be schooled over there big time running up that hill.

Why is it ridiculous? Of course I'd try him on the turf before sending him, but it seems very sporting to me. He'll basically be running on turf in the BC Classic anyway.

What exactly would be the challenge of beating up on overmatched horses again anyway?

[DeanT]

Jess Jackson is a sportsman, that's for sure. I wish we had more of them. Gotta cheer like hell for this horse if he goes. I admire them for taking a shot.

[ezrabrooks]

He might not get beat again, but we know how that goes.

Mr Prospector is a legend and it looks like Curlin is on his way to being one to, and in the shed.

Anything could happen, but taking a crack in the Arc would be tremendous. Win that and he stamps himself a legitimate All-Time great.

Lets not get carried away either, who could be retired tomorrow. Hopefully he just keeps running. I'm enjoying it.

Isn't the Arc to BC turn around about 2-3 weeks? Tough duty, I don't care how good Curlin is.

Ez

[ArlJim78]

Why is it ridiculous? Of course I'd try him on the turf before sending him, but it seems very sporting to me. He'll basically be running on turf in the BC Classic anyway.

What exactly would be the challenge of beating up on overmatched horses again anyway?
the winners share of an easy $5million is nothing to sneaze at.

your comment about essentially running on turf in the BC classic is way way off base and can't be substantiated.

i have nothing against Jackson, and admire him for campaigning Curlin this year.
ridiculous was not the right word, perhaps I should have said over confident. I think a lot of Curlin and wouldn't want to see him go out getting dusted in france.

[ghostyapper]

with that said, I have to say that this idea of running him in the arc is ridiculous. I first took it to be mere hot air aimed at trying to influence the track surface decision at Santa Anita. however they keep bringing it up and Sunday morning Assmussen was talking about whether to prep at arlington or Belmont "because they are most like Longchamp"!!! is he really that misinformed? the Arc is a totally different game, for a different style of horse.
with Curlins size, runstyle, and lack of turf experience I would expect that he would be schooled over there big time running up that hill.

I completely agree. You have the most dominant horse on the richest surface and you are gonna take him off it to end his career? Why? He can win the whitney and JCGC running backwards, thats not a shabby way to end a career, earning back to back HOY.

[Cratos]

He has run HOW MANY TIMES on the lawn??

Longchamps is tough even for the experienced horse as the stretch is UP HILL.

In 1968 Dr. Fager’s connections put him in his only race of his career on turf against some of the best turf horses at the time in the United Nations Handicap and he went wire-to-wire to win toting a 134 pounds and after setting a world record for the mile in 1:32 and change in his previous race.

The great Secretariat (and I am not comparing Curlin to either Dr. Fager or Secrtariat) was absolutely devastating in his last two starts, both of which were on the grass as he destroyed stellar fields in the Man O’War and the Canadian International.

Whether Curlin can go to Longchamps in France and win the Prix de L’Arc de Triomphe is not the debate, but the realization and the admiration for his connections that they are a throwback to the owners of yesteryear because if Curlin is put in the Arc he would have competed during his career in the Triple Crown, the Breeders’ Cup Classic, the Dubai Cup, and the Arc.

If that doesn’t put him on the road to greatness, nothing else will. By the way to associate Big Brown with Curlin except as a racehorses is ludicrous.

[PaceAdvantage]

By the way to associate Big Brown with Curlin except as a racehorses is ludicrous.Yes, at least wait until the poor boy turns 4....not that he'll be racing at 4, but to compare a 3yo to a seasoned 4yo at this time of the year is ludicrous, I agree.

It's also ludicrous to think that Big Brown is all washed up.

[cj]

the winners share of an easy $5million is nothing to sneaze at.

your comment about essentially running on turf in the BC classic is way way off base and can't be substantiated.

i have nothing against Jackson, and admire him for campaigning Curlin this year.
ridiculous was not the right word, perhaps I should have said over confident. I think a lot of Curlin and wouldn't want to see him go out getting dusted in france.

First, it would not be an "easy" 5 million because synthetic is nothing like dirt. If you had to choose which is closer to it, dirt or turf, only a fool would say dirt. It is particularly evident in longer routes, but still noticeable at all distances. My comment can be substantiated. Whether I choose to do it on a public forum is another matter.

[RichieP]

By the way to associate Big Brown with Curlin except as a racehorses is ludicrous.

Wrong with all due respect.

BB is a freak when healthy with an ability to rebreak after 7- 8 furlongs with a burst of power and speed that is unparalled by any other horse today and is breathtaking to see.

Don't let the fact that jerkoff Dutrow and sheister Ivaronne are involved with the horse take the focus away from how much of a freak BB really is when healthy.

The ONLY way Curlin can beat BB is if BB truly is a gutless horse when looked in the eye say in midstretch. Anyone judging BB's heart on his Belmont race is in my opinion wrong.

What was so great about Curlin's prep and then triple crown races comparing them with BB? Nothing. Curlin didn't become "great" until fall.

You can't beat what you can't catch and Curlin is a plodder when compared to BB as far as raw speed.

[cj]

Wrong with all due respect.

BB is a freak when healthy with an ability to rebreak after 7- 8 furlongs with a burst of power and speed that is unparalled by any other horse today and is breathtaking to see.

Don't let the fact that jerkoff Dutrow and sheister Ivaronne are involved with the horse take the focus away from how much of a freak BB really is when healthy.

The ONLY way Curlin can beat BB is if BB truly is a gutless horse when looked in the eye say in midstretch. Anyone judging BB's heart on his Belmont race is in my opinion wrong.

What was so great about Curlin's prep and then triple crown races comparing them with BB? Nothing. Curlin didn't become "great" until fall.

You can't beat what you can't catch and Curlin is a plodder when compared to BB as far as raw speed.

Big Brown was looking good against bad horses. Curlin, in my opinion, is really a great horse. Big Brown would have to improve big time to beat him.

[Cratos]

Wrong with all due respect.

BB is a freak when healthy with an ability to rebreak after 7- 8 furlongs with a burst of power and speed that is unparalled by any other horse today and is breathtaking to see.

Don't let the fact that jerkoff Dutrow and sheister Ivaronne are involved with the horse take the focus away from how much of a freak BB really is when healthy.

The ONLY way Curlin can beat BB is if BB truly is a gutless horse when looked in the eye say in midstretch. Anyone judging BB's heart on his Belmont race is in my opinion wrong.

What was so great about Curlin's prep and then triple crown races comparing them with BB? Nothing. Curlin didn't become "great" until fall.

You can't beat what you can't catch and Curlin is a plodder when compared to BB as far as raw speed.

What am I missing in your post? I know; Street Sense, Hard Spun, and Rag To Riches all very good 3yos whom Curlin ran against and defeated except Rag To Riches.

In the 2007 BC Classic to contradict your point about “you can't beat what you can't catch” Hard Spun had a 7 length lead on Curlin at the ¾ mile of the BC Classic and lost to Curlin by 4 ½ lengths

Tell me if hypothetically we could put Curlin in a race with Hard Spun and Big Brown who do you think would win?

Also on pure conjecture on my part, Da’Tara might have compromised Big Brown chances had Big Brown continued in the Belmont Stakes and improved Denis of Cork chances.

Big Brown is a good horse and might become a great horse, but he has to prove his greatness on the racetrack not in the media.

[Hank]

If they want to put Curlin on turf fine.Send him to the million or something like that,sending him to the arc would not be wise imho.

[Bruddah]

Wrong with all due respect.

BB is a freak when healthy with an ability to rebreak after 7- 8 furlongs with a burst of power and speed that is unparalled by any other horse today and is breathtaking to see.

Don't let the fact that jerkoff Dutrow and sheister Ivaronne are involved with the horse take the focus away from how much of a freak BB really is when healthy.

The ONLY way Curlin can beat BB is if BB truly is a gutless horse when looked in the eye say in midstretch. Anyone judging BB's heart on his Belmont race is in my opinion wrong.

What was so great about Curlin's prep and then triple crown races comparing them with BB? Nothing. Curlin didn't become "great" until fall.

You can't beat what you can't catch and Curlin is a plodder when compared to BB as far as raw speed.

but, in what race did BB show he was a freak? His best race was the Fl. Derby against a weak field. As weak as that field was, I consider it stronger than his Ky Derby field. The Preakness and Belmont were a group of allowance horses. At what point did you decide BB was a freak and a Great horse? Yet, you won't afford Curlin the same recognition. You certainly aren't being objective. (IMO) I believe you are more hopeful and prejudiced than realistic. In Handicapping, people usually back up their opinions with facts and numbers which forms their Opinions. A strong Opinion or Stand doesn't need to always be correct, to be respected. Just well documented before the race. :)

[slewis]

Big Brown was looking good against bad horses. Curlin, in my opinion, is really a great horse. Big Brown would have to improve big time to beat him.


Yup,

Einstein, Barcola, and Grasshopper are true grade 1 Handicap horses.

All I'll point to this: 49.28....113.41.....137.39.....149.68

Look, Curlin is a VERY VERY nice horse. He is in my opinion, not GREAT.
I dont know what your standard of "great" is but you're of course entitled.
BB wilted and we still dont know precisely why.
Everyone I've asked who has the slightest bit of inside scoop has nothing that would be any more than speculation.
My opinion of what makes a horse "GREAT" is that they overcome ALL obsticles (heat, hoof, steroid, whatever excuse you use).
They win even when it's NOT their day. BB lost that opportunity in the Belmont.
I've posted this before: Allegedly "weak" crops historically come around and fare well against older, established handicap horses as we get closer to their 4 yr old birthday. I expect this year to be the same way, and "new" 3ry olds will come on to the scene.
My statement for this thread is this: If BB comes back (and that may be a big if) and races the way he did in the KD and preakness, the only horse who might, and I repeat might, beat him, is Curlin, but that's NO LOCK.

[DeanT]

First, it would not be an "easy" 5 million because synthetic is nothing like dirt. If you had to choose which is closer to it, dirt or turf, only a fool would say dirt. It is particularly evident in longer routes, but still noticeable at all distances. My comment can be substantiated. Whether I choose to do it on a public forum is another matter.

I'm interested to hear.

My statement for this thread is this: If BB comes back (and that may be a big if) and races the way he did in the KD and preakness, the only horse who might, and I repeat might, beat him, is Curlin, but that's NO LOCK.

I believe Curlin is a superstar. And I think BB might be a superstar, but he has not proven it. Do you agree, or disagree?

[slewis]

I'm interested to hear.



I believe Curlin is a superstar. And I think BB might be a superstar, but he has not proven it. Do you agree, or disagree?

Well Dean,

Let me put it to you like this since you're a Canuck.

Denis Potvin was a very good defencemen. He was NEVER a superstar.
He was never Bobby Orr.

There's GREAT, and then there's very good. If you want to label Curlin and Potvin Superstars, OK by me.
We just disagree on "great".

[DeanT]

Ya well Denis Potvin could never beat Curlin at a mile and a quarter, even if he was wearing super powered skates. So take that! :)

Maybe over the next several races he does not live in infamy, like you say, and you will be proven 100% correct, but I am sure as heck glad I got to see him. Watching him race versus mounting a mare is definitely more entertaining. And I think he races pretty dang good.

[ArlJim78]

First, it would not be an "easy" 5 million because synthetic is nothing like dirt. If you had to choose which is closer to it, dirt or turf, only a fool would say dirt. It is particularly evident in longer routes, but still noticeable at all distances. My comment can be substantiated. Whether I choose to do it on a public forum is another matter.
i have plenty enough data to know how synthetic routes compare to dirt or turf, and also to be able to say that your claim that synthetic is nothing like dirt is simply wrong. while synthetic has its differences with dirt it also has major differences when compared with turf.

[ghostyapper]

What was so great about Curlin's prep and then triple crown races comparing them with BB? Nothing. Curlin didn't become "great" until fall.


His preakness was a full second faster on a slower track than BB. And I don't think we need to discuss why his belmont was better.

[ghostyapper]

You can't beat what you can't catch and Curlin is a plodder when compared to BB as far as raw speed.

A comment like this leads me to believe you have not scene curlin's races, you are just looking at his running lines. His move at the top of the stretch in dubai was EVERY bit as breathtaking as BB's preakness against better horses. His move in the bc classic to catch hard spun at the top of the stretch, a horse far BETTER than anything BB has faced, was the definition of speed and acceleration. He left Street Sense, a talented closer who is FAR BETTER than anything BB has faced, in his dust when they both made the same move at the same time.

Go back and watch replays of these races because you crown BB the best animal running.

[Tom]

Fraction-by-fraction:

25 24.28 24.13 24 12.29

Curlin did not set them - he sat behind them then blew by. You can't fault him for sitting on the rail and waiting.

[RichieP]

but, in what race did BB show he was a freak? His best race was the Fl. Derby against a weak field. As weak as that field was, I consider it stronger than his Ky Derby field. The Preakness and Belmont were a group of allowance horses. At what point did you decide BB was a freak and a Great horse? Yet, you won't afford Curlin the same recognition. You certainly aren't being objective. (IMO) I believe you are more hopeful and prejudiced than realistic. In Handicapping, people usually back up their opinions with facts and numbers which forms their Opinions. A strong Opinion or Stand doesn't need to always be correct, to be respected. Just well documented before the race. :)

If you can find a replay of BB Preakness showing the view from above look at him from the top of the stretch Bruddah. Watch what he does. Rebreaks while already traveling fast with a burst of speed nobody in racing could do Curlin included. That is a freak in my terms anyway. Horses are not supposed to be able to do that.

Curlin is a great horse. He is the best today. I really hope that the 2 get a chance to race each other when both are healthy. BB all grown up and Curlin the champ :)

This is still a really great game we play!

[RichieP]

His preakness was a full second faster on a slower track than BB. And I don't think we need to discuss why his belmont was better.

You are basing this on final time which becomes a result of pace of race and race shape. Final time is virtually meaningless in predicting the future if the pace of race and what caused the end result aren't looked at.

Look at the splits of Curlin's Preakness and where he was positioned during them.

[RichieP]

Big Brown was looking good against bad horses. Curlin, in my opinion, is really a great horse. Big Brown would have to improve big time to beat him.

Cj
You have the figures. Was Curlin that much faster at the Ark. Derby, Kentucky Derby and Preakness then BB was in his prep race in Fla,his Derby and his Preakness?

mad respect for your opine. If you say yea then I hush up til they race
:)

[ghostyapper]

You are basing this on final time which becomes a result of pace of race and race shape. Final time is virtually meaningless in predicting the future if the pace of race and what caused the end result aren't looked at.

Look at the splits of Curlin's Preakness and where he was positioned during them.

I know final time isn't always a good indicator but you said curlin ran no better in the triple crown than BB. His figure was 11 points higher and his final time was 6 lengths faster. These 2 facts cannot be ignored.

[ghostyapper]

Watch what he does. Rebreaks while already traveling fast with a burst of speed nobody in racing could do Curlin included. That is a freak in my terms anyway. Horses are not supposed to be able to do that.

There was no overhead but again watch the dubai race. His burst at the top was every bit as impressive against better competition.

[cj]

I had Curlin and Big Brown pretty close through there early races. Curlin really stepped it up in the Preakness and hasn't looked back.

The difference I see in the two is that Curlin looked like a big awkward kid early despite winning most, while Big Brown looked very professional. I don't see the same room for improvement that was there with Curlin.

As for Curlin being great, I'm not sure what else he can do. He destroyed a very good field in the Classic including older horse champion Lawyer Ron, Hard Spun, Street Sense, and Any Given Saturday. He traveled to Dubai and humiliated a field of internationals. He then came back and carried an unheard of today 128 and pissed all over the best we have to offer. Grasshopper is pretty good and gave Street Sense all he could handle last year and has run some big races this year. Barcola has run giant races. Champions they are not, but there were some solid horses in the Foster.

[cj]

i have plenty enough data to know how synthetic routes compare to dirt or turf, and also to be able to say that your claim that synthetic is nothing like dirt is simply wrong. while synthetic has its differences with dirt it also has major differences when compared with turf.

I've posted plenty of facts here already about this. What do you have to say they are wrong?

[Bruddah]

[QUOTE=RichieP]If you can find a replay of BB Preakness showing the view from above look at him from the top of the stretch Bruddah. Watch what he does. Rebreaks while already traveling fast with a burst of speed nobody in racing could do Curlin included. That is a freak in my terms anyway. Horses are not supposed to be able to do that.

Curlin is a great horse. He is the best today. I really hope that the 2 get a chance to race each other when both are healthy. BB all grown up and Curlin the champ :)

and film me running by my 3yo Grand children. At my age and weight, you would think I was an Olympic Champion. No comparison son. Read CJ's post and believe him, if not the rest of us. :)

[ghostyapper]

The difference I see in the two is that Curlin looked like a big awkward kid early despite winning most, while Big Brown looked very professional. I don't see the same room for improvement that was there with Curlin.


Thanks for pointing this out, some people do not understand this. Not every horse matures at the same rate. For instance it was obvious in 2004 that maturity would help rock hard ten and eddington alot more than it would smarty jones and lion heart, who imo were at their peak in the tc series while those other 2 were still learning their way.

Just because BB and Curlin are similiar through june of their 3yo seasons does not mean brown will automatically turn into the monster curlin has.

[RichieP]

There was no overhead but again watch the dubai race. His burst at the top was every bit as impressive against better competition.

Here is the BB move from overhead in the Preakness Ghosty. Check out from 1:40 on. Curlin can't do that man but he is the champ til they race each other.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rMoxifieuoI

[ArlJim78]

I've posted plenty of facts here already about this. What do you have to say they are wrong?
I haven't seen any of the facts you posted here on the matter, as I don't read this board in a cover to cover sense. If you point me in the right direction I will give a look and might be able to comment further.

[ghostyapper]

Here is the BB move from overhead in the Preakness Ghosty. Check out from 1:40 on. Curlin can't do that man but he is the champ til they race each other.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rMoxifieuoI

I don't know another language or I would try telling you it in that language. Let me try it in english yelling, maybe it will sink in this time.

CURLIN CAN AND DID DO THAT SAME MOVE IN DUBAI. JUST BECAUSE THERE WAS NO BLIMP OR YOU DIDN'T SEE IT DOES NOT MEAN IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

Are we clear?

[46zilzal]

Rich, you should know by now that racing is all about understanding relativity. The Preakness field was as about as weak a group of runners as I can recall and Preakness fields usually are the lightest of the three. A dedicated front runner, running away from a field shows only speed not grit. BB has never shown ability with another one pushing. Until that happens he falls into the Devil's Bag syndrome: Fast but unchallenged.

Plus with his eccentricities (not being able to run INSIDE of competition) all any challengers would have to do is stick him against the rail and he has a good chance to self-destruct yet again.

He tried to get out on the first turn in Baltimore and the rider tried to claim the other colt came in on him. Balderdash- just watch the race.