Starter on the Track for Belmont?

[Shenanigans]

I just got an e-mail from a friend with some still shots taken from a flat screen TV of the start of the Belmont. There is a man on the track, by the rail walking toward the gate as the horses are running past. I can't imagine the starter being so stupid as doing something like this, but who else could it be? Maybe that is what caused BB to be riled at the start? You can see plainly that he is watching this person. Anyone hear about this or seen it? I think I need to watch a replay......

[Shenanigans]

Check the replay.Yeah, the start was on the track and that is what BB shied from. Of course, that didn't cost him the race, but it could have caused some jocks to get dumped. That was just dumb of the starter.:confused: In the pics, you can see him actually walking back to the gate. Maybe if he'd just stood there, it wouldn't have bothered BB.

[PaceAdvantage]

I noticed him out on the track during the replays as well, and thought it looked unusual at the time. But I didn't put 2+2 together and think that is what caused BB to bear out at the start.

[46zilzal]

Unless you are wearing a loud color or are moving excessively, these horses are used to people being around them by schooling over and over.

It is only with the two year olds that we are instructed to stay far back from the rail during their run by us. I often stand very close to the start and many of the assistant starters are there as well. It usually causes no problem. Watch the starters at both Woodbine and Fort Erie: they are ON the apron of the track when starting every race.

[Shenanigans]

Unless you are wearing a loud color or are moving excessively, these horses are used to people being around them by schooling over and over.

It is only with the two year olds that we are instructed to stay far back from the rail during their run by us. I often stand very close to the start and many of the assistant starters are there as well. It usually causes no problem. Watch the starters at both Woodbine and Fort Erie: they are ON the apron of the track when starting every race.

He was wearing light colored pants and in the stills you can tell he was walking back to the gate. He shouldn't have been moving at all. He warrants NO EXCUSES.

[Bruddah]

didn't cause BB to lose that race. Folks are looking for excuses.(scape goats) The great ones don't have excuses. I give you Smarty Jones in the Preakness. The horse almost went to his knees. He recovered and won the race. Stop with the bush league excuses. Horse's winning streaks come to an end everyday. BB is a race horse not a Super Horse. He did not have it on Saturday, plain and simple. It's sad but true. More than likely not one single issue stopped him from winning, but a multitude of small things. :(

[46zilzal]

Wasn't that Afleet Alex who almost went down when Dominguez's horse bore out from the stick???

[Greyfox]

The starter moved after the gate break.
The cowboy at Hollywood Park does it every day.
It does not influence tweet.

[PaceAdvantage]

Horses can and do spook at almost anything...depends on the horse, of course. I'm not claiming the starter spooked BB out of the gate, but to say it was virtually impossible means you haven't been around too many horses.

[The Hawk]

The point is, why does he need to be on the track? I've wondered that for years.

[46zilzal]

The point is, why does he need to be on the track? I've wondered that for years.
They don't: many use a stand to be inside the rail and high up. It is a personal preference so they can be part of the loading. Our starter often stays low rather than go up in the starter's cage.

[Shenanigans]

didn't cause BB to lose that race. Folks are looking for excuses.(scape goats) The great ones don't have excuses. I give you Smarty Jones in the Preakness. The horse almost went to his knees. He recovered and won the race. Stop with the bush league excuses. Horse's winning streaks come to an end everyday. BB is a race horse not a Super Horse. He did not have it on Saturday, plain and simple. It's sad but true. More than likely not one single issue stopped him from winning, but a multitude of small things. :(

I never said it did cost BB the race. I was just pointing out the possible reason he had the bad break and ran poorly down the stretch the first time.:rolleyes:

[Donnie]

Shenanigans--
I wonder if that is the cameraman in my shot. I have 3 or 4 other shots of the break. In the next shot, which is rather blurry, he appears to be futher in front of the gate...almost like he was walking around the gate as they broke.

I don't see anyone else on the track...but I may have missed it....


http://home.mchsi.com/~pics/Belmont_165_copy.jpg

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

In this thread some familiar horses names have popped up.

What does Smarty Jones, Lawyer Ron, Afleet Alex, and Curlin all have as a common thread in their racing history?

They all spent their three year old season prepping at Oaklawn Park, and all four of them won the Arkansas Derby.

Charles Cella has had a magnificent run.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[cj's dad]

The man on the track is beyond your still photo. Had to watch youtube several times to see it. 2 questions:

1- what the hell is he doing out there ? (is this his 15 seconds of fame?)
2- what if BB veers left? Man Down !! Race over for BB!!!

[Donnie]

definitely not the cameraman, after watching the youtube vid!

[BillW]

The man on the track is beyond your still photo. Had to watch youtube several times to see it. 2 questions:

1- what the hell is he doing out there ? (is this his 15 seconds of fame?)
2- what if BB veers left? Man Down !! Race over for BB!!!

I was told (by a trainer) that he starts all races from there. I just never noticed it.

[cj's dad]

I was told (by a trainer) that he starts all races from there. I just never noticed it.

Bill, thats really wierd. Not making any excuse for BB, but it is POSSIBLE he was spooked-we will never know, unless BB develops vocal chords

[WinterTriangle]

I was told (by a trainer) that he starts all races from there. I just never noticed it.

Not surprised.

There are more than enough *known* possibilities for BB's bad race. Not sure I am willing, or even interested, in getting into really distant possibilities and conspiracy theories.

To this day, there are many who believe The Warren Commission findings and the single-bullet theory are implausible, and are still wookie-hunting. :sleeping:

If the racing world would simply address the *known* and *obvious* problems in the industry, some of which became more obvious during the TC races, it would be a good place to place energies. There's more than enough of a sandwich right there to bite into-----

Regards,
~WinterTiangle -- who broke the BB-race-obsession habit about 48 hours ago~ Just go Cold Turkey! :lol:

[Shenanigans]

In this thread some familiar horses names have popped up.

What does Smarty Jones, Lawyer Ron, Afleet Alex, and Curlin all have as a common thread in their racing history?

They all spent their three year old season prepping at Oaklawn Park, and all four of them won the Arkansas Derby.

Charles Cella has had a magnificent run.

Dr. SwineSmeller

I got to see them all down there....:p

[The Hawk]

They don't: many use a stand to be inside the rail and high up. It is a personal preference so they can be part of the loading. Our starter often stays low rather than go up in the starter's cage.

Of course! There's NO reason for him to be on the track. I can't believe there are some that watch NYRA races that didn't notice this before, it's been the case for years. I never got it, but after so much time went on I figured I was wrong, it couldn't possibly be a factor in the race, or else they would have put a stop to it.

If he wants to stay low he can do so, but from behind the rail.

[46zilzal]

If he wants to stay low he can do so, but from behind the rail.
Tune into Woodbine: starter does it all the time with no problems. Same at Fort Erie.

That was not the problem Saturday.

[ryesteve]

That was not the problem Saturday.Maybe not, but Desormeaux is now trying to drag the starter under the bus with him:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2008/06/12/2008-06-12_kent_desormeaux_says_starter_on_track_ra.html

"Desormeaux thinks that distraction may have cost Big Brown the Triple Crown." :rolleyes:

[sally]

Wow, what a blame game--:rolleyes:

[46zilzal]

Another thing: the gate crew usually leaves the innermost stall EMPTY. The starter being there is not going to hinder any starter.

[Greyfox]

Tune into Woodbine: starter does it all the time with no problems. Same at Fort Erie.

That was not the problem Saturday.

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Agreed.

[njcurveball]

Maybe not, but Desormeaux is now trying to drag the starter under the bus with him:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2008/06/12/2008-06-12_kent_desormeaux_says_starter_on_track_ra.html

"Desormeaux thinks that distraction may have cost Big Brown the Triple Crown." :rolleyes:


I think if you read between the lines, the Agent came up with this story. Kent is just trying to save face for his most horrible ride which unfortunately was seen by millions and recorded for history.

Hey Kent, Chuckie Lopez called, your riding lesson is at 3 today! :lol:

[46zilzal]

Let's see, the starter is there all the time, like many other tracks, BUT THIS TIME, it is a big deal. Akin to blaming the bell in the gate for a bad trip.

The colt was acting up long before he got in the gate.

[ghostyapper]

This is turning into a hilarious blame game. The horse lost by 25 lengths, not a nose. He simply was not good enough.

We should go back and look at secretariats belmont. Maybe those other horses had excuses (other than they weren't good enough) to make up the 31 lengths.

[Steve 'StatMan']

The starter in Chicago also stands on the track. IIRC, when asked, he said he gets a better view of the horses in the gate to see that they are all ready and standing properly. Also makes it easier if he needs to help out on the front side of the gate with anything. But of course, we still get a lot of banging & bumping around at the gate anyway, can't say horses usually break in a straight line, esp. here - maybe I, and especially my trip note source just see it more often, maybe because we're seen so many bad/odd breakers over the years.

[46zilzal]

Also the starter was well UP the course as this capture shows.

The colt was rank when the gate opened: long before this point.

[ryesteve]

I think if you read between the lines, the Agent came up with this story.If you want to know the truth, my first instinct was that his agent was reading this thread :D

[njcurveball]

Desormeaux says he first spoke of the incident Saturday night during dinner with his agent, Mike Sellitto (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Mike+Sellitto).

It would be hard for me to believe that his horse was spooked and he did not see the reason standing right in front of him. :bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

This is turning into a hilarious blame game. The horse lost by 25 lengths, not a nose. He simply was not good enough.

We should go back and look at secretariats belmont. Maybe those other horses had excuses (other than they weren't good enough) to make up the 31 lengths.Not good enough? So, it is your contention that between the Preakness and Belmont, Big Brown suddenly became 25 lengths less talented than that sorry field they assembled for the Belmont Stakes?

Simply not good enough? No other explanations? Sixth start of his career, and WHOOSH, talent all gone? In just three little weeks....I don't buy it.

There must be other explanations more plausible.

[PaceAdvantage]

To play devil's advocate, just because every starter stands on the track these days, doesn't mean an incident like this won't get them to change their ways.

After all, only one disaster has to occur for folks to change the way they are doing things.

When I watched the Belmont Stakes replay for the first time, I remember commenting to myself how the guy on the track (I assumed it was the starter, but he went by in a flash) seemed out of place.

Whatever the excuse, whether real or perceived, somebody is going to offer a counter-point as to why said excuse is bogus. This is an argument that can't be won by any side.

[Shenanigans]

The horse did shy from the starter. It doesn't mean he'll do it next time. Horses can be quirky and do weird things every now and then. Remember the horse dumping Stevens at the finish of the Arlington Million?
The starter didn't cost the horse the race. He wasn't the one who trained the horse for a 6 furlong race going into a 1 1/2 mile race.:p

[ghostyapper]

Not good enough? So, it is your contention that between the Preakness and Belmont, Big Brown suddenly became 25 lengths less talented than that sorry field they assembled for the Belmont Stakes?

Simply not good enough? No other explanations? Sixth start of his career, and WHOOSH, talent all gone? In just three little weeks....I don't buy it.

There must be other explanations more plausible.

He was not good enough THAT day, not for his career. Is this the first time you've seen a talented horse run a clunker without any obvious excuse? Lawyer Ron ran 3 brilliant races in a row last year then lost the breeders cup by 30. Maybe we should go back and blame the starter?

I'd say the quarter crack, missed training, and 3 races in 5 weeks are higher on the list than the starter in a 12 furlong race. How was last years belmont winners start? Certainly worse than browns

[Greyfox]

Also the starter was well UP the course as this capture shows.

The colt was rank when the gate opened: long before this point.

We don't always agree, but thank you for providing the pic.
It supports your earlier comments. Once again , :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

P.S. The only thing missing from the poor start is some type of Laser Beam theory. :ThmbDown: The horse bolted at the gate. That should not stop a champion.

[46zilzal]

In England a few years back, a horse bolted near the finishing post and pundits thought he had been hit with a secret SONIC boom force from the crowd. What an imagination.

[sally]

In England a few years back, a horse bolted near the finishing post and pundits thought he had been hit with a secret SONIC boom force from the crowd. What an imagination.

so did they figure out why the horse bolted?

[HolyBull29]

That starter was way to close to the horses it seems. Never really have seen that before.

[Greyfox]

That starter was way to close to the horses it seems. Never really have seen that before.

Just watch Hollywood Park this afternoon and look for the man in the white Cowboy stetson. Happens every day.

[46zilzal]

so did they figure out why the horse bolted?
No it was something in the crowd but never isolated. I know a two year old spooked here once when I wore a brightly colored rain coat. The starter made me exchange it for a bland one and it never happened again!

[HolyBull29]

Just watch Hollywood Park this afternoon and look for the man in the white Cowboy stetson. Happens every day.

I guess it's a better view for them to be closer. I know at Belmont today,the starter was behind the rail.

[The Hawk]

Tune into Woodbine: starter does it all the time with no problems. Same at Fort Erie.

That was not the problem Saturday.

I'm not saying that's why he lost. I'm saying there's no good reason for the starter to stand on the track, at Belmont, Woodbine, or anywhere. And no one here has given a good reason why he SHOULD be there. It likely had nothing to do with the horse losing, but why open the possibility that it will spook the horses? If a horse is spooked and makes a left and runs the guy over, would that be the end of this practice? Or would he (or his replacement) go right back to the same spot, because it's imperative that he be on the racetrack?

I guess we won't know. Someone posted here that the starter is now in the inside of the rail. I guess there IS a chance officials are concerned, despite all the experts on PA contending otherwise.

[joanied]

Interesting thread...
After looking at the photos using the link reysteve so kindly posted...I am baffled :confused: as to why that starter was there...look at the second photo and you can see BB looking at the starter...and in looking at him myself, it seems he was being casual about being out there so far from the rail!!!
BB, like all race horses may be used to seeing folks around them all the time, but a horse's natural instinct is to always avoid running into something...and I think BB's instinct kicked in when he saw the man in the WHITE pants. At any rate, wether it had anything to do with what happened at that point in the race, or what sort of outcome we would have had if that man had QUICKLY dashed under the rail as soon as he pressed the button, is besides the point now...point is, it's a stupid place for anyone to be...dangerous and damned stupid.

And....I am siding with PA about some of you saying BB is not the horse everyone thought he was... don't forget all he accomplished leading up to the Belmont... this is an exceptional colt that has done amazing things with so much going against him from day one!!
It's not BB's fault he has bad feet, it isn't his fault he was not trained properly coming into the Belmont...or that he became completely unglued in the detention barn...an effect of doing almost nothing for 2 wks. or more...or that the break was completely screwed and he was yanked & pulled:mad: and bumped and made to be so damned confused he didn't know what he was supposed to do...run, stop, go left, go right....Kent D said he'd planned on sending BB to the front, but his plans were compromised because of the break...but, dear Kent... I saw, and your horse saw the rail wide open...you simply chose not to take it.

I'm willing to say, BB is going to take our breath away again... if his connections let him.

My two cents worth.....well, Ok...a dime's worth:)

[PaceAdvantage]

The starter didn't cost the horse the race. He wasn't the one who trained the horse for a 6 furlong race going into a 1 1/2 mile race.:pDid I read correctly in another thread that you had worked with John Servis at one point?

If so, now I get it! :lol:

[Semipro]

I played Belmont Thursday and Friday and the starter was walking up the track inside the rail and I thought it odd I had never noticed this before.Is this common and I just have never noticed?:confused:

[Shenanigans]

Did I read correctly in another thread that you had worked with John Servis at one point?

If so, now I get it! :lol:

You read wrong. I never worked for the man. And what is it that you "get" from that post of mine you quoted???

[PaceAdvantage]

You read wrong. I never worked for the man. And what is it that you "get" from that post of mine you quoted???I didn't say you worked for Servis....I said you worked WITH Servis, as evidenced by your own words: "I know this because I took pics for Servis to send to Ian.;)"

This explains why you take such delight in Dutrow losing the Belmont Stakes, more so than your average Dutrow-hater on this board. It was a fairly innocent observation...don't read into it more than necessary.

[Shenanigans]

I didn't say you worked for Servis....I said you worked WITH Servis, as evidenced by your own words: "I know this because I took pics for Servis to send to Ian.;)"

This explains why you take such delight in Dutrow losing the Belmont Stakes, more so than your average Dutrow-hater on this board. It was a fairly innocent observation...don't read into it more than necessary.

I don't hate Dutrow - or anyone else for that matter.
Yes, you are right, Dutrow comments about Servis didn't sit well with me but I don't think I am the only one it didn't. John's a good guy and with all the fun he had with Smarty Jones, he never turned into an ass. He stayed humbled and is a very honorable man.