Did anyone catch Jeanine Edwards' comment on ESPN?

[PaceAdvantage]

In the hours before the Belmont, on ESPN, she stated that Kent D. and Big Brown NEVER got along in the mornings the handful of times he worked BB out, and that Dutrow said Kent D. would NEVER be working BB out again.

Did we see on Saturday afternoon, what Dutrow and Co. saw the few times Kent D. sat atop BB in the morning?

[samyn on the green]

They got along just fine in Louisville and Baltimore. The ride had nothing to do with this horse losing. It was the training.

The bottom line is that Big Brown's hoof injury interrupted his training. He was handled with kid gloves as he was left in the barn day after day his energy built and he was not converting energy to fitness. They saved something for later but they didn't build anything new for the Belmont. Big Brown went to post with stale form. All Big Brown had to offer was his rank energy and the leftovers from the Preakness. This is a horse with no 2 YO bottom and he was asked to go 12 furlongs off one workout in 6 weeks. It is no wonder he was toiling on the far turn.

[PaceAdvantage]

They got along just fine in Louisville and Baltimore. The ride had nothing to do with this horse losing. It was the training.Yeah, they got along, until they didn't. The ride certainly did not enhance BB's chances on Saturday. To say it had nothing to do with him losing is ignoring the obvious, in my opinion.

[samyn on the green]

So what should have Kent Done? Instead of trying to rate Big Brown he could have tried plan b. Plan B would have been to take the very rank Brown and hook a 39-1 shot so they could duel like Smarty Jones dueled in his failed triple crown attempt. We all know how much people praise Stewy Elliot for his ride in the 2004 Belmont, but it seems like everyone wanted Desormeaux to redux Elliot's enterprising front end steal attempt. Do you really want to hook a need the lead horse in a 12 furlong race? How smart would have that been?

Big Brown was so rank that it would have been a hell of a duel with Da' Tara. 23 flat, 46 flat and 111. Either way rating or dueling, Big Brown was fading on the turn and up the track. Brown did not have his mind or the gas in the tank to see out the trip in the Belmont. He was handled to conservatively due to his sore hoof and it showed in the performance. His lack of training and activity left him with too much nervous energy and it completely took him out of his game. Nobody could have won on Big Brown in the Belmont.

[King Ritchie]

So what should have Kent Done? Instead of trying to rate Big Brown he could have tried plan b. Plan B would have been to take the very rank Brown and hook a 39-1 shot so they could duel like Smarty Jones dueled in his failed triple crown attempt. We all know how much people praise Stewy Elliot for his ride in the 2004 Belmont, but it seems like everyone wanted Desormeaux to redux Elliot's enterprising front end steal attempt. Do you really want to hook a need the lead horse in a 12 furlong race? How smart would have that been?

Big Brown was so rank that it would have been a hell of a duel with Da' Tara. 23 flat, 46 flat and 111. Either way rating or dueling, Big Brown was fading on the turn and up the track. Brown did not have his mind or the gas in the tank to see out the trip in the Belmont. He was handled to conservatively due to his sore hoof and it showed in the performance. His lack of training and activity left him with too much nervous energy and it completely took him out of his game. Nobody could have won on Big Brown in the Belmont.

I would be willing to bet that you are a real novice to horse racing. He was NOT rank. It was the ride stupid. Kent should have stayed on the rail until he had the time to move his horse to the outside. We are NOT running a 5 furlong race here - it is a mile and a half and there was plently of time to position him anywhere with a little patience. This had to be one of the worse rides I've ever seen. Whenever you have to fight a horse during a race it generally ends up where the horse finishes nowhere - I see this time and time again.

[richrosa]

I would be willing to bet that you are a real novice to horse racing. He was NOT rank. It was the ride stupid. Kent should have stayed on the rail until he had the time to move his horse to the outside. We are NOT running a 5 furlong race here - it is a mile and a half and there was plently of time to position him anywhere with a little patience. This had to be one of the worse rides I've ever seen. Whenever you have to fight a horse during a race it generally ends up where the horse finishes nowhere - I see this time and time again.

Do you honestly believe that if KD would have let the horse run up on the rail with Da'Tara, that the outcome would have been different? Energy is finite, and Big Brown did not have enough of it regardless of the ride.

I agree with Samyn and others who believe KD positioned Big Brown for an outside stalking trip that would take advantage of his superior late speed that was supposed to be there.

Let us not forget that Dutrow and KD probably discussed this ride many times, and with Dutrow's almost insane confidence, he probably ordered KD to stay out of trouble and to get a clear outside trip as to take advantage of the horse that everyone expected to be there at the end, that just didn't turn up.

The ride, was practically immaterial when a horse comes up that empty that far from the finish line, and gets beat by inferior talent that way he did Saturday.

[RichieP]

The ride, was practically immaterial when a horse comes up that empty that far from the finish line, and gets beat by inferior talent that way he did Saturday.

Right on the money.

[Pace Cap'n]

PA--yes, I did notice that comment and thought it somewhat odd at the time.

Also--remember how they chose that 20-slot in the KD seemingly without hesitation? Maybe 46Z was on to something about horses to the outside.

[SmartyMarty]

Big Brown was so rank


His "rankness" was a product of Kenty's overzealous desire to get to the outside..

plain and simple..

watch the replay..

Kents performance entering that first turn was an absolute disaster..

NEXT..

[SmartyMarty]

The ride, was practically immaterial when a horse comes up that empty that far from the finish line, and gets beat by inferior talent that way he did Saturday.

What race were you watching?

When you play with a horse's brain early in the race, how can that be immaterial?

[lamboguy]

dutrow always likes the outside with his horses, if you got way the best its the place to be, asmussen likes inside, because him and his dad trane them from babies to withstand inside pressure. asmussens horses trane at his dads farm in el paso. when they leave the gate with other horses, the gates for the individual horses open at different times. the preparation those horses get down there is the reason why they win so early all the time, i think last year he won 8 2 yo races in the april keeneland meet, and went on to win a bunch at churchill. i know they are doing good in woodbine this year.

[Javagold]

wow the same guy blasting KD are the same guys who probably blasted SE.....how funny is that !!.....the ride although looking strange for the first 7 seconds of the race!!! did not cost BB his Triple crown , he was outside sitting 3rd off a horse he beat by 29 lengths ....not much more you could want....i did think before the race KD may wait too long (because of his premature move with RQ) and make the race closer than it had to be, but BB was done early (whether it was in the barn, paddock, starting gate or most likely last week with that messed up training schedule).....but i could only imagine what the sunday morning QBS here, would have said if he stayed on the railed battling the first half with D'T and then backed up like he did (probably even earlier in this scenario) ....c'mon Dutrow got himself beat by his lack of bottom (this from same guy who bad mouthed Servis!), so it couldnt happen to a better guy, although the foot most likely made him play his hand that way and his talk was just a cover up, hoping he could get through one more race

[njcurveball]

Do you honestly believe that if KD would have let the horse run up on the rail with Da'Tara, that the outcome would have been different? .


110%


This is a funny board, let's change the jock name to CC Lopez and the thread would be about 100 replies already. How is Kent D teflon here? You protect the rail, plain and simple. Instead of doing that, he checked, bumped, and took the horse to the rodeo.

Break the horse on the rail, protect it to the first turn and then if Da Tara is out for a duel, back off. Given the lack of closers and the dreadul race from Tale of Ekati, beating Da Tara seemed to be the only thing needed to win this race.

[ghostyapper]

His "rankness" was a product of Kenty's overzealous desire to get to the outside..


He was bobbing his head before kent asked him to change paths. The ride was not good but had absolutely no outcome on the race. If we are to believe you that the ride cost BB the race then the horse's mind is fragile and he's made of paper.

Horses with fragile minds and made of paper do not win the derby in a 20 horse field. He just didn't have it on saturday, plain and simple.

[46zilzal]

I would be willing to bet that you are a real novice to horse racing. He was NOT rank. It was the ride stupid.
Let's see the trackman who has worked for the DRF the last 25 years, a retired jockey and our official starter used those same words.

[delayjf]

His "rankness" was a product of Kenty's overzealous desire to get to the outside..
That's not what I saw, he was throwing his head way before he hit the turn. Was this the first time he'd had dirty throw in his face? Correct me if I'm wrong, but no less of a jockey than Jerry Bailey did not find fault with the ride.

And as it was pointed out, he spit the bit long before the quarter pole. After the race, there were no nicks on the horse to indicate that he had clipped heels, according to the vet, he did not bleed. Had he fought down the stretch and lost by a competitive distance you might be able to point to the jostling on the turn as a factor. But the pace was slow enough that he should have been in the race at least until the stretch - I think his breeding, the lack of training, and or the strain of the TC finally caught up with him. factors that have been the undoing of a lot of better horses than BB.

[SmartyMarty]

That's not what I saw, he was throwing his head way before he hit the turn.

he tried to get out twice..
he was unsuccessful the first time..
that's when he started throwing the head...
And yes, it was before hitting the first turn....

but it really don't matter..
Horsey players believe what they wanna believe..

[Stevie Belmont]

Bad start, start and stop, rank and got bumped. Contributing factors as to why he fizzed out.

[Stevie Belmont]

I wrote this a couple weeks aga

Or is it? Is it that simple, like it was for Smarty Jones? Just show up and get crowned in a walkover. There is nothing simple about the Belmont Stakes. Big Brown still has a few obstacles in his way, the ever-lingering foot problem that requires special glue on shoes. Casino Drive a fresh, prepared horse geared up for a big effort. And the X factor, the weather could come into play. Big Brown has shown he can win on an off track, so if it does come up sloppy, from what we have seen, he should be able to handle it. And the most important factor of them all, will Big Brown come into this race like he came into the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes, a calm, relaxed horse that was unmoved by his surroundings. Will he be a calm, settled racehorse ready to roll just as he had in his previous races? One of the contributing factors some of the others have failed before him to win the grueling Belmont Stakes. Smarty Jones and Funny Cide were nervous wrecks the day of the race, costing them valuable energy that they needed. History will view Funny Cide as a nice horse, but not a worthy winner of a Triple Crown. Smarty Jones will be remembered for his raw speed and determination, one of the better horses to fail. To win the Triple Crown, not only must the horse have the class, but also has to have the proper demeanor the day of the race. It all has to come together.

[Stevie Belmont]

All of the trouble did hurt him. Bumped, ran up on Da'Tara. Bad stuff. Was it the ride? it was a contributing factor, there was nothing good about that start, but im not certain if the horse might have been spooked. Anyway Kent should have just let him go where he wanted, no garuntee he would have run his race, but all that crap at the start killed his chances.



I would be willing to bet that you are a real novice to horse racing. He was NOT rank. It was the ride stupid. Kent should have stayed on the rail until he had the time to move his horse to the outside. We are NOT running a 5 furlong race here - it is a mile and a half and there was plently of time to position him anywhere with a little patience. This had to be one of the worse rides I've ever seen. Whenever you have to fight a horse during a race it generally ends up where the horse finishes nowhere - I see this time and time again.

[Hank]

110%


This is a funny board, let's change the jock name to CC Lopez and the thread would be about 100 replies already. How is Kent D teflon here? You protect the rail, plain and simple. Instead of doing that, he checked, bumped, and took the horse to the rodeo.

Break the horse on the rail, protect it to the first turn and then if Da Tara is out for a duel, back off. Given the lack of closers and the dreadul race from Tale of Ekati, beating Da Tara seemed to be the only thing needed to win this race.

Excatomundo! BB loses no matter the ride but the ride was stunningly bad.Look at it like an ordinary claiming race that you had a serious play on,BB is the class of the feild has great natural speed and the rail. and you got that ride.:mad:

[joanied]

Been reading the posts about the, ugh, Belmont...here is my two cents...
I think the heat in comination with his lack of steroids is one factor...it takes quite a while for the effects of steriods to leave the system...steroids have a bad effect on the adrenal glands, both physical and mental...he may have still be feeling the effects:ThmbDown: of 'withdrawal' and the heat made it worse.
He didn't seem like a horse ready to run in the paddock and through the tunnel onto the track...he, as some mentioned, did look 'flat'... the suggestions it was Dutrow's training have a lot of merit...he should have been out on the track every morning, if just to jog around there... I think being confined to the barn so much, was too much for BB's mental and physical state...and Dutrow should have blown him out Saturday morning...he just missed too much training for a race like the Belmont...
Kent D...he didn't want to repeat his mistake with Real Quiet...so he simply made another type mistake...I gotta agree with those who said he should have stayed on the rail...what in hell :eek: was he thinking...the rail was wide open and you can see BB wants to get int there...Kent should have stayed there...after the first turn he could have moved outside, and as for getting hooked up with Da Tara in a 'speed duel'...what :rolleyes: speed? Da tara had it his own way...just loping along, slow fractions...Kent could have stayed right with Da Tara and not have to go too fast because Da Tara was not going fast...I beleive if Kent had let the horse roll on his own, he would have won...might have been close, but still a win.

Pulling BB up like he did was a good judgement call to a point...he should have eased the horse down, not fight his head because BB was not a happy camper about being pulled up....just stop riding and ease the horse past the wire...
they all talked about how intelligent BB is...they shoulda left the running of the race up to the :ThmbUp: horse...not the jock or trainer!!!

I think we'll see him in the Travers...to my way of thinking, they owe it to BB, let him redeem himself...

And...I am still bummed out over the entire thing...no TC winner, poor BB was embarrassed by his jock and trainer, and if the horse is pissed off...he has every right to be...that was not the :bang: real BB on Saturday.

[Golf and Horses]

the lack of training, and or the strain of the TC finally caught up with him. factors that have been the undoing of a lot of better horses than BB.

Couldn't agree more. Fla Derby, KY Derby and Preakness took it's toll on a lightly raced 3yo.

[GlenninOhio]

Been reading the posts about the, ugh, Belmont...here is my two cents...
I think the heat in comination with his lack of steroids is one factor...it takes quite a while for the effects of steriods to leave the system...steroids have a bad effect on the adrenal glands, both physical and mental...he may have still be feeling the effects:ThmbDown: of 'withdrawal' and the heat made it worse.
He didn't seem like a horse ready to run in the paddock and through the tunnel onto the track...he, as some mentioned, did look 'flat'... the suggestions it was Dutrow's training have a lot of merit...he should have been out on the track every morning, if just to jog around there... I think being confined to the barn so much, was too much for BB's mental and physical state...and Dutrow should have blown him out Saturday morning...he just missed too much training for a race like the Belmont...
Kent D...he didn't want to repeat his mistake with Real Quiet...so he simply made another type mistake...I gotta agree with those who said he should have stayed on the rail...what in hell :eek: was he thinking...the rail was wide open and you can see BB wants to get int there...Kent should have stayed there...after the first turn he could have moved outside, and as for getting hooked up with Da Tara in a 'speed duel'...what :rolleyes: speed? Da tara had it his own way...just loping along, slow fractions...Kent could have stayed right with Da Tara and not have to go too fast because Da Tara was not going fast...I beleive if Kent had let the horse roll on his own, he would have won...might have been close, but still a win.

Pulling BB up like he did was a good judgement call to a point...he should have eased the horse down, not fight his head because BB was not a happy camper about being pulled up....just stop riding and ease the horse past the wire...
they all talked about how intelligent BB is...they shoulda left the running of the race up to the :ThmbUp: horse...not the jock or trainer!!!

I think we'll see him in the Travers...to my way of thinking, they owe it to BB, let him redeem himself...

And...I am still bummed out over the entire thing...no TC winner, poor BB was embarrassed by his jock and trainer, and if the horse is pissed off...he has every right to be...that was not the :bang: real BB on Saturday.

Excellent and enlightening observations, joanied. Thanks.

[delayjf]

but it really don't matter..
Horsey players believe what they wanna believe..

But Consider this, they ran the mile in 1:38 and BB could not keep up, the final two fractions were run in @ 25 2/5 and 26 2/5, I'm hearing that the Beyer will probably be in the 90's. Heck even War Emblem managed to make a run at the lead entering the stretch after practically falling to his knee's. BB never made a move at ANY stage of the race against the slowest pace this horse has ever faced. If this horse could not sustain a run for the lead at that slow of a pace - what makes you think he could have dueled with DT and come out any better?

Looking at his PP's - his pace and speed figures have been in decline for the past three races, the Raggies might have concluded that he was coming off a 4 race version of the 0-2-X pattern, but instead of getting a rest, he was asked to run a distance he was not breed for within three weeks, while missing some training.

It's not a matter of wanting to believe anything. It's more a matter of a lot of other things pointing to a bad race than the fact that he got bumped a bit leaving the first turn.

[joanied]

Excellent and enlightening observations, joanied. Thanks.

Thank you, Glen.

[richrosa]

While Andy Beyer had much criticism for KD's ride, he does share the essential opinion with me.

If Big Brown had lost the Belmont by four or five lengths, I would have said that Desormeaux bore complete culpability for the defeat. But the colt didn't lose by a measurable number of lengths. He was routed. He appeared lifeless, and this was not the doing of his jockey.

You can read his entire diatribe here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/10/AR2008061003041.html

[RichieP]

Been reading the posts about the, ugh, Belmont...here is my two cents...


:ThmbUp: Great post JoanieD. I like your style

[Stevie Belmont]

If they did not get along in the morning they should have done something about. Horse and people do bond, maybe the bond betwen the two was not as strong. Anyway, if they knew that, they should have thought about. If I had a horse I would like the jock to gallop him as well. Know each other, understand each other. The whole thing just amazes me know.

[46zilzal]

If you go back and look at the other Triple Crown races, the colt was hell bent to go outside (particularly around the first turn at Baltimore) in those contests as well.

[joanied]

:ThmbUp: Great post JoanieD. I like your style
Well, thanks:) so much, RichieP.... I try!!