Turf Rails

[Tim]

How about some handicapping.

For the last few months I have been recording what information I can find on turf rails. When I can I have also been looking at as many replays as possible. Mostly on compurace and on track websites.

Do they move the starting gate & automatic timer when the rails are up or are the races with rails up a little bit long? Is the turf rail placement incorporated in the Beyers? Is a 1:37:1 time the same effort when the rails are set at 20' as when set at 0'. I'm coming to the conclusion the the "stats" in the turf charts and turf PP's for most tracks are useless. They are apples and oranges.

Here's an example.

On Friday 6/22 Mth had 3 turf races. I got my DRF simulcast weekly and took a look.

1) On Friday morning, 6/22 the Monmouth web site stated that the turf rails would be set at 30 feet.
2) In the handicapper's diary in the front of the paper they said the rails were set at 30 feet.
3) The chart for the 2nd race at 1-1/16m on the turf had a time of 1:44:87 and didn't mention turf rails
4) The chart for the 4th race at 1-1/16m on the turf had a time of 1:45:28 and stated that the turf rails were at 20 feet.
5) The chart for the 7th race at 1-1/16m on the turf had a time of 1:44:17 and stated that the turf rails were at 20 feet.

Here we have 3 different statements about turf rails on the same track for the same day. i.e. web site & summary(30 feet), 2nd race(not mentioned), and the 4th & 7th races(20 feet).

Has anyone ever seen or used any calculations that show the additional distance covered if the race was run 20' off the rail on a 7 furlong course like Monmouth's. Monmouth lists track records on the turf for "1-1/16 miles" and "about 1-1/16 miles". Since the start of this years meet, there have been 4 different turf rail settings used, 0', 10', 20', 30'.

Has anybody looked at this stuff?
Confused as usual,
Tim

[karlskorner]

Tim;

At a mile distance when the "dogs" are set 25' out the additional distance is 157'. The breaking light is stationary, however the gate can be set back anywhere from 75' to 125' from the light. To get some idea of the distance back the gate is set, the "downpoles" from the permanent rail are approximately 8' to 10' feet apart.

When you add these 2 figures together you are closer to running 1 1/16th miles, by counting the number of "down poles" you will have some idea as to how much further the horse has to run than the distance set. Add to this the distance between each "path" and the horse out of the 12 hole seldom wins. If you find "internal fractions" printed they are bogus. as the lights for 1/4 and 1/2 are set for the permanent rail.

Karl

[karlskorner]

Tim

I'll add to your wonder. If the distance is 1 mile on the dirt and horse A runs it in 134.3 out of the 1 "hole" and horse B runs the mile in 135.2 out of the "12" hole and both ran the same path throughout the race and they are meeting for the first time today at a mile distance. which is the fastest of the 2 horses ?

Karl

[Tim]

Karl,

I understand what your saying. If the example is from Belmont, It's a one turn mile from the front edge of the chute, the 12 post is not that much of a liability so the A horse was faster. If the example is from your home court, Calder, It's a two turn race with the gate set up at the start of the first turn, the B horse is probably faster. I assumed both horses in your example won the historical races otherwise the times 134.3 & 135.2 would need adjustments.

At Calder, is it a matter of making an adjustment for the fractions when the rails are up? Are the automatic timers on or off when the turf rails are up. At Hialeah, at least they didn't quess about fractions.

Tim

[karlskorner]

Tim

The "internal fractions" and final times are "handheld" and done by a long time friend, Toby Callet, who works for BRIS/DRF and puts out the sheet Florida Handicapper. He does all 3 tracks (GP,CRC,HIA). This is done just in case there is a problem with the lights. He is very good at it.

The problem is the time is taken from the gate, not the light which is just past the start pole (depending on the distance the gate is set back his times never agrees with the official time, so if there is a failure his times have to be ajdusted for the first 1/4 and finish time. The 2 sheets (Rags and Jerry Browns) also time from the gate. I am not sure if they adjust or not. I assume all tracks have someone doing "handheld".

Awhile back I posted the trouble I had at GP, they were running 1 mile 70 and there are no lights set up for that distance. For the first 23 days of the meet DRF did not have internal times for 1 mile 70, than they appeared in the PP's I questioned where did they come from. Was told "handheld" but DRF never published them. I could live with that, but than Equibase started to publish the "internals" in 100's rather than 1/5's, Impossible to do and I told Equibase, never got an answer.

Karl

[Tom]

Since accurate info on turf rails is impossible to get and like you found, often conntradictary, I don't bother with it. I use only the late fractions to rate turf horses, so I am not at all concerned with the first call times. If you don't know for sure where the rails are, how can you make any kind of adjsutment? Why this data is so hard to come by, I can only guess. Maybe the NTRA can help fix this <G> LOL
Tom

[hurrikane]

I have never found any speed figure -Beyer, Cramer, or anything else- that had any value on turf. In fact IMHO the public using these figs is what creates value on turf.

The things I have found that work is class, breeding and closing time (ala Quinn). I use to specialize in turf and did quite well, only problem is you can't play much in the winter. I've been doing well with other types of races so I've drifted away from the grass as a simple matter of time I have availble and where to best apply that time.

Good luck..and take a look at the Quinn numbers or make your own..there is value in them if you learn how to use them.