David Carrol puts Dutrow in his place

[Moyers Pond]

Someone asked trainer David Carroll, whose Denis of Cork finished second, whether he felt bad about helping spoil a Triple Crown. "No, I don't," Carroll said. "Not one little bit. There's a right way and a wrong way. You win with class and you lose with class. "Basically what [Dutrow] has been saying is, [Denis of Cork] is a P.O.S. And he isn't. He rubbed me the wrong way."


Good for David Carroll. The guy had to put up with a quarantine in his barn last fall and a meddling owner and he always was a classy guy.

Let's hope Denis of Cork gets a little pace in the Haskell or Travers and wins.

[LemonSoupKid]

Denis of Cork barely made the Derby cutoff, only getting in with Behindatthebar's defecting. He then had a ground saving trip and got 3rd, not even close. In this race he can't even challenge a huffing and puffing horse down the stretch when no Big Brown is there? He may not be a POS, but he's not very good (right now). Period.

Dutrow said what he felt, and he was wrong. He deserves to eat crow. Why should he be expected to say things how others want him to say them? I actually think it's better for someone to be honest than to be dishonestly humble or "say the right things."

I'm posting my one conclusion to this race on a new thread. It was total bore, man was the Belmont a buzzkill. 99 Beyer? Please.

[NJ Stinks]

Denis of Cork beat 17 of the best horses of his generation in the Derby and all but one in the Belmont. And if Kent did not sit with Big Brown, Denis of Cork may have won on Saturday.

Relatively speaking, that makes him pretty darn good.

[Moyers Pond]

Denis of Cork barely made the Derby cutoff, only getting in with Behindatthebar's defecting. He then had a ground saving trip and got 3rd, not even close. In this race he can't even challenge a huffing and puffing horse down the stretch when no Big Brown is there? He may not be a POS, but he's not very good (right now). Period.

Dutrow said what he felt, and he was wrong. He deserves to eat crow. Why should he be expected to say things how others want him to say them? I actually think it's better for someone to be honest than to be dishonestly humble or "say the right things."

I'm posting my one conclusion to this race on a new thread. It was total bore, man was the Belmont a buzzkill. 99 Beyer? Please.

Denis of Cork beat Big Brown in the Belmont. The race Dutrow said was guaranteed. That is all I need to know. Dutrow looked like a fool and then he looked like a coward after the race. A cheating loudmouth who didn't produce and then hid like a coward. That is Rick Dutrow.

[BombsAway Bob]

...but from watching him in interviews & reading about him, it comes across to me that Dutrow is a very sensitve person who tries to mask it with confidence.
Things go fine when they're...going fine, but when the Brown hit the fan, Dick's inner emotions get the best of him & he pulled back from the public. When ABC announced his terse "Don't Even think about it!", I knew Dick's Goose was deep-fried! Now the quotes about Kent pop up. The stress of the Triple Crown campaign & the backlash he's gotten from his past transgressions make him a walking heart attack. Someone give that man a toke & a two-week vacation. He needs a short break to recoup & regroup. I'll Bet he's NOT A BAD GUY!(imo)-Bob

[sally]

Ya makes yer bed, ya lie in it---:rolleyes: not a bad guy??!! Well, a blow hard anyway...

[Shenanigans]

I give it less than 3 months and there will be "reports" of this man falling off the wagon. (Not that he really ever was on one.:rolleyes: )

[PaceAdvantage]

Someone asked trainer David Carroll, whose Denis of Cork finished second, whether he felt bad about helping spoil a Triple Crown. "No, I don't," Carroll said. "Not one little bit. There's a right way and a wrong way. You win with class and you lose with class. "Basically what [Dutrow] has been saying is, [Denis of Cork] is a P.O.S. And he isn't. He rubbed me the wrong way."Coming from a guy who trained one of the eight LOSERS of this race, I find this quote more than a little amusing.

[Moyers Pond]

Coming from a guy who trained one of the eight LOSERS of this race, I find this quote more than a little amusing.

The guy lost with class. Not much more to it than that. Walked home with a nice $20,000 check for himself from the Belmont and a $10,000 check for himself for the Derby.

I rather be him than Dutrow. Dutrow never got to ride Easy Goer in the mornings. ;)

[mannyberrios]

Coming from a guy who trained one of the eight LOSERS of this race, I find this quote more than a little amusing.Well said:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: .

[sally]

Coming from a guy who trained one of the eight LOSERS of this race, I find this quote more than a little amusing.

He may have "lost" but he came in 3rd in the Derby and 2nd in the Belmont--not too shabby I'd say... certainly not a POS....

[Robert Fischer]

Dutrow was "the best that money can buy"


Carrol was the trainer "most jerked around by owners".

First the Hawthorne experiment, then the jockey disrespect.
Denis of cork isn't terrible, but he isn't grade2 level. What a nice job Borel did with that horse. He put a lot of heart into the Derby. He got the horse it's best lifetime work in the morning and then gave him a
"Street Sense Jr." rail ride and put some great form into the horse. And the Owners go and switch to Robbie Albarado. Real classy.


Give me Dutrow every time over Carrol.

[sally]

Denis of cork isn't terrible, but he isn't grade2 level. What a nice job Borel did with that horse. He put a lot of heart into the Derby. He got the horse it's best lifetime work in the morning and then gave him a
"Street Sense Jr." rail ride and put some great form into the horse. And the Owners go and switch to Robbie Albarado. Real classy.

I was disappointed they switched from Borel because he did do such a nice job with DoC...and I thought DoC wouldn't do very well in the Belmont because of that, but he got up for second so wouldn't you say he's improving, or at least in good form--I look for good things to come...

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

Someone asked trainer David Carroll, whose Denis of Cork finished second, whether he felt bad about helping spoil a Triple Crown. "No, I don't," Carroll said. "Not one little bit. There's a right way and a wrong way. You win with class and you lose with class. "Basically what [Dutrow] has been saying is, [Denis of Cork] is a P.O.S. And he isn't. He rubbed me the wrong way."


Good for David Carroll. The guy had to put up with a quarantine in his barn last fall and a meddling owner and he always was a classy guy.

Let's hope Denis of Cork gets a little pace in the Haskell or Travers and wins.


Hot Springs, AR -- (Sports Network) - "Denis of Cork, making just his third career start, won the President's Day running of the $250,000 Southwest Stakes at Oaklawn Park. The Southwest is a key prep race leading to the $1 million Arkansas Derby".

Dr.SS> You always gotta watch those Oaklawn 3 year olds. Charles Cella has found a way to draw some of the top of the 3 year old class to Hot Springs every year.

I bet Denis of Cork in the Southwest. But I didn't play the Rebel Stakes or the Arkansas Derby. I didn't think Denis had the total package as a 3 year old. At 4, he may indeed prove tough. Physically, at 3 years old, he looked a touch underdeveloped. He should win a big race or two as a 4 year old. I won't be suprised.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[sally]

Dr. S -- So you don't think he'll do well in the Haskell or the Travers if he gets some pace to run at??

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

Dr. S -- So you don't think he'll do well in the Haskell or the Travers if he gets some pace to run at??

Hi Sally, Denis may not need a big pace to win, but if he gets the fast pace, he's the winner.

With a distinguished mix of Secretarait, Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, and Man O War's blood flowing through his veins, Denis is bound to triumph against the big boys soon. One advantage...Denis is sound.

If I had to bet early, Denis is my across the board play in the Haskell.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[PaceAdvantage]

He may have "lost" but he came in 3rd in the Derby and 2nd in the Belmont--not too shabby I'd say... certainly not a POS....Interesting to note that "P.O.S." was Carrol's term, not Dutrow's.

[menifee]

Hi Sally, Denis may not need a big pace to win, but if he gets the fast pace, he's the winner.

With a distinguished mix of Secretarait, Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, and Man O War's blood flowing through his veins, Denis is bound to triumph against the big boys soon. One advantage...Denis is sound.

If I had to bet early, Denis is my across the board play in the Haskell.

Dr. SwineSmeller

Sally and Dr.,

I was the biggest of fan of Denis of Cork early this year. If you do a search under his name, I posted a message on him. I'll be frank, I'm off his bandwagon. I was really disappointed in his Belmont. They screwed the horse up by taking him to Illinois. But his Derby was nice. I thought if BB didn't show up in the Belmont, he was the other logical horse once Casino Drive dropped out. I had a nice win bet on him, so when I saw BB struggling and Denis of Cork blow by him, I was ecstatic. The horse came up flat in the stretch again. He was not gaining, he actually was losing ground to D'Tara after the 1/16th pole. D'Tara was all over the track too. Denis still has not popped a triple digit beyer.

I know there wasn't a lot of pace, but he should have passed D'Tara. This horse looks to me to be a one run horse who needs a real strong pace duel for him to win. You should always use him underneath, but I would not say this horse is going to win either the Haskell or the Travers. He won't have any value in those races, especially if BB doesn't run.

[Dr.SwineSmeller]

Notice I said across the board bet. A mile and a half was a bit much for Denis it appeared.

If he can catch a fast pace at a mile and a eighth, with a field of 10, he'll give you the opportunity to cash back on him across the board. Whether or not he gets the win in the Haskell is questionable though. I think he needs a couple of more races to hit his top gear. I'll have to see the Haskell lineup before I commit to a play. Those 5 year olds can be tough to beat when your 4.

Dr. SwineSmeller

[46zilzal]

Last time I looked it was limited to sophomores: three years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_Invitational_Handicap

[Bobzilla]

I've had quite a bit of interest in Denis of Cork throughout the spring as well. It's apparent to me through the way I handicap he packs more energy than the majority of his contemporaries and he has more than hinted at some true ability.

Throughout his brief career he's demonstrated a preferred tactic of coming from off the pace. Unfortunately, it's typical that once connections detect this preference it's often times overplayed and from then on the assignment gets tougher, especially against the graded stakes competition of whom those who prefer to be prominent during the initial stages of an event can maintain their competitive speed/edge over more distance of ground. Perhaps Shenanigans of this board, who I believe rides horses, can shed some light as to what degree is the tactic of falling way back early the action of the horse, the rider, or the two acting in concert.

I would have preferred to have seen Calvin Borel ride Denis during the Belmont. I'm aware that Mr. Warren wanted to see Robby Albarado ride Denis because of Robby's past graded stakes successes at Belmont. I believe many of those were probebly on Mineshaft, a horse with a much different style than Denis. I'm not sure what was gained by the rider switch. At least with Borel Denis would have been along the rail reserving more energy. Upon watching the head on viewing Albarado had Denis unneccesarily wide throughout much of the event. Minus any contesting of the early fractions up front along with being too far back and too wide, Denis once again hinted at his true potential. Seems like every time his medling owner makes a decision it's totally misguided and wrong.

As for the Haskell, I'll just say for now that if I were Denis's connections I would stay away from Monmouth, a track which during the warmer months really tightens up. If you come from behind it's virtually impossible on some days to successfully move from off the pace, especially if you're in the outer lanes, no matter how good the horse may be. I would think their best course of action would be Jim Dandy/Travers/Super Derby/ and then finish the saeson off in the JCGC, the true race this year to help decide "dirt" honors.

[Robert Fischer]

DoC...
wouldn't you say he's improving, or at least in good form--I look for good things to come...

With Brown more than likely gone, and Harlem Rocker still unproven, DoC is at least a competitive stakes 3YO. He could be better naturally at a Mile or Mile1/16th... But so is just about everyone else in the division... He is probably improving a little as a Mile1/8th horse with the experience at classic distances.

[SMOO]

Dutrow 2

Carroll 0

Spin it any way they like, that was the final triple crown score between those two trainers.

[Moyers Pond]

Dutrow 2

Carroll 0

Spin it any way they like, that was the final triple crown score between those two trainers.

So Dutrow gets credit for his horses wins but when he loses it is the jockey's fault? :lol:

Dutrow will forever be known as the cheating, loud-mouthed trainer, who couldn't get it done without pumping his horses full of steroids. That is his legacy.

[PaceAdvantage]

Dutrow will forever be known as the cheating, loud-mouthed trainer, who couldn't get it done without pumping his horses full of steroids. That is his legacy.Most trainers pump their horses full of steroids....or didn't you know?

[slewis]

Sally and Dr.,

I was the biggest of fan of Denis of Cork early this year. If you do a search under his name, I posted a message on him. I'll be frank, I'm off his bandwagon. I was really disappointed in his Belmont. They screwed the horse up by taking him to Illinois. But his Derby was nice. I thought if BB didn't show up in the Belmont, he was the other logical horse once Casino Drive dropped out. I had a nice win bet on him, so when I saw BB struggling and Denis of Cork blow by him, I was ecstatic. The horse came up flat in the stretch again. He was not gaining, he actually was losing ground to D'Tara after the 1/16th pole. D'Tara was all over the track too. Denis still has not popped a triple digit beyer.

I know there wasn't a lot of pace, but he should have passed D'Tara. This horse looks to me to be a one run horse who needs a real strong pace duel for him to win. You should always use him underneath, but I would not say this horse is going to win either the Haskell or the Travers. He won't have any value in those races, especially if BB doesn't run.

I recall you being high on this horse and you made the right call.
He's impressed me both physically and on the racetrack, one of the few 3 yr olds who I really liked physically.
I'm curious why you think they "screwed him up" by racing in Illinois?
I know you posted the owner should have minded his business.
Is the horse not his property? I know owners who know 10 times as much about placing horses then trainers ever could dream of, and David Carroll is, well, just David Carroll.
I dont know how knowledgeable the owner is about racing but blindly listening to whatever a trainer wants to could be a big mistake.

[Lose The Juice]

Remember how bad War Emblem was in the Derby and Preakness after he won the Illinois Derby?

Oops.

[46zilzal]

With Brown more than likely gone, and Harlem Rocker still unproven, DoC is at least a competitive stakes 3YO. He could be better naturally at a Mile or Mile1/16th...
Harlem Rocker fell apart on the Woodbine polytrack.

[joanied]

...but from watching him in interviews & reading about him, it comes across to me that Dutrow is a very sensitve person who tries to mask it with confidence.
Things go fine when they're...going fine, but when the Brown hit the fan, Dick's inner emotions get the best of him & he pulled back from the public. When ABC announced his terse "Don't Even think about it!", I knew Dick's Goose was deep-fried! Now the quotes about Kent pop up. The stress of the Triple Crown campaign & the backlash he's gotten from his past transgressions make him a walking heart attack. Someone give that man a toke & a two-week vacation. He needs a short break to recoup & regroup. I'll Bet he's NOT A BAD GUY!(imo)-Bob

Very good...I like your take on Dutrow...in one interview with him, he talked about his daughter's mother and you could see the emotion there...just one small example of what's inside this man... I'm still of the opinion that Kent made a major boo-boo by not taking the rail after all the crush of the break...but my heart is sad for him...
a toke :jump: and a two week vacation sounds like a great idea!!

[joanied]

Dutrow was "the best that money can buy"


Carrol was the trainer "most jerked around by owners".

First the Hawthorne experiment, then the jockey disrespect.
Denis of cork isn't terrible, but he isn't grade2 level. What a nice job Borel did with that horse. He put a lot of heart into the Derby. He got the horse it's best lifetime work in the morning and then gave him a
"Street Sense Jr." rail ride and put some great form into the horse. And the Owners go and switch to Robbie Albarado. Real classy.


Give me Dutrow every time over Carrol.

There ya go...excellent:ThmbUp:

[joanied]

Most trainers pump their horses full of steroids....or didn't you know?

Indeed....and did Zito ever answer the question posed to him about Da Tara being on steriods..."no comment"...hhhmmmmm....now seems to me, if he wasn't using steroids on Da Tara, he could have looked the interviewer in the eye and said no...."no comment".

[Robert Fischer]

i cheated today and took a ginkgo biloba

[the little guy]

So Dutrow gets credit for his horses wins but when he loses it is the jockey's fault? :lol:

Dutrow will forever be known as the cheating, loud-mouthed trainer, who couldn't get it done without pumping his horses full of steroids. That is his legacy.


I've been meaning to ask you something.....wasn't Moyers Pond a Tony Reinstedler trained horse? Tony, who seems like a great guy, also trained Saint Liam before Dutrow had him. Tony also worked for Shug at one time....as did David Carroll who trains Denis of Cork. What's the connection here?

Just curious.

[Moyers Pond]

I've been meaning to ask you something.....wasn't Moyers Pond a Tony Reinstedler trained horse? Tony, who seems like a great guy, also trained Saint Liam before Dutrow had him. Tony also worked for Shug at one time....as did David Carroll who trains Denis of Cork. What's the connection here?

Just curious.

Reinstedler still trains Moyers Pond. I believe Tony was the assistant trainer and #1 guy to Shug when he had Easy Goer and Personal Ensign. David Carroll used to get on Easy Goer in the morning.

Mr. Warren owned/owns both Saint Liam and Denis of Cork. Warren used to have horses with Reinstedler. I think he took one of the Warren horses to the Kentucky Derby the year Thunder Gulch won.

So David Carroll and Reinstedler both worked for Shug and they both have/had horse that Mr. Warren owned and ran in the derby.

Both are very good horseman. Melnyk seems to now own quite a few Reinstedler horses and Dogwood seems to be Carroll's big owner.

I like the old school guys from with the Whiteley training pedigree.

Dutrow is a great horseman but I am very suspicious of a trainer that can move up horses so much coming from good barns. I really don't believe there is that much a trainer can do to move up a horse if he comes from a good barn. I have seen too many horses move up 10-20 beyers in the Dutrow barn.

[the little guy]

Thanks.

[Semipro]

Interesting to note that "P.O.S." was Carrol's term, not Dutrow's.Yeah he loses with CLASS!