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View Full Version : The Belmont- a most embarassing display


asH
06-08-2008, 04:02 AM
Early races at Belmont echoed speed and lots of it, sprinters were going wire or off pace in balanced pace times of 1:08.80 and such. Distance races at a mile Allowance optional claimer (Forefathers- 4th) went 22.69, 45.39, 1:09.79, 1:34.48 off pace winning, while 3 year old fillies in the Acorn did 22.85, 45.34, 1:09.68, 1:34.60 off lead horse winning. What the hell happened in the Belmont?? What were all of these 'jockeys' thinking! (except for Garcia) Kent may have had Real Quiet on the brain and didnt want to use BB up early (Big Brown wanted to go but Kent strangled him into submission). What were the others thinking as the fractions got slower, and slower, and s- l- o- w- e - r ?? 23.82, 48.30, 1:12.90, 1:37.96, 2:03.21, 2:29.56 Splits 23.82, 24.48, 24.60, 25.06, 25.25, 26.35. What happened today was that Big Brown and the other horses were forced to change their running style and run as closers because of the s-l-o-w pace. Dennis Of Cork, Ready's Echo helped mathematically eliminate their chances dropping 7-10 off this extreme slow pace (go figure), not one of these 'jocks' knew or responded to the pace until it was all over. Big Brown did what fast horses do when their assets (speed ) are taken away; they dont run. For me this was a most embarrassing display from supposedly top jocks as a whole that I've ever, ever seen...bring back Bailey, Shoe, Cordero, Pincay, Day or others, we may have had a race today, this was'nt. congrats to Garcia....can you say Giacomo

jognlope
06-08-2008, 07:41 AM
When Kent put BB to the outside it looks like it might have thrown BB off, I almost thought it looked like BB could have pulled a muscle with that move, but what was Kent going to do, keep BB's face in the butt of the lead horse?

Pell Mell
06-08-2008, 08:19 AM
When Kent put BB to the outside it looks like it might have thrown BB off, I almost thought it looked like BB could have pulled a muscle with that move, but what was Kent going to do, keep BB's face in the butt of the lead horse?

Why do some keep saying Kent was going to run into the lead horse? 10 strides out of the gate the 6 had the lead on the outside and BB was 2nd on the rail with clear sailing in front of him when Kent pulled him so hard that BB was looking at the infield. As Drugs said, why was Kent putting a strangle hold on BB when he was the speed of the race. He should have been sitting 1st or 2nd on the rail with the 6 outside of him. BB was fighting the bit for all he was worth. I taped it and looked at it frame by frame and the race was lost in the first 10 strides. I guess the horse thought they didn't want him to run so he quit running.

onefast99
06-08-2008, 08:52 AM
I just think that he was a victim of the heat. He didnt look good early on in the race and maybe KD could of put him in front and it was clear sailing from there on but I think he just had nothing today. Still he gave us all a thrill and brought the spotlight back onto t-bred racing. He will comeback and race again at Saratoga.

KingChas
06-08-2008, 11:17 AM
Big Browns 2008 Belmont will go down in history.

"The fastest 3 minutes in sports."

:D

kenwoodallpromos
06-08-2008, 12:18 PM
That "freame by frame" was the actual speed you were looking at!LOL!!
The best advice from this board that connections get stupid and not follow is "Let the horse run its race".
I believe it happened with RQ (KD), FC, SJ, and others in the TC races who won any combination of the 2 legs?

cj
06-08-2008, 12:20 PM
As I've mentioned elsewhere, and well before this race, this is by far the worst group of 3yos I have ever seen. It isn't even close.

Is this one of the years where the crop was depleted by the fertility issue? I don't remember. Obviously many are being shipped overseas too, but that isn't new.

john del riccio
06-08-2008, 12:27 PM
As I've mentioned elsewhere, and well before this race, this is by far the worst group of 3yos I have ever seen. It isn't even close.

Is this one of the years where the crop was depleted by the fertility issue? I don't remember. Obviously many are being shipped overseas too, but that isn't new.

Outside of BB's FL, KY, & PR wins, I agree with you. There are some nice 3yo sprinters though.

John

Tom
06-08-2008, 12:32 PM
Terrible crop.
Very few races were impressive.
Yesterday's race underscored what a bunch of pork chops this group is.
Nothning can can put together more than a couple of weeks of any kind of form. Tale of Ekati -----what happened to this short rib? ELMER'S show up and put in an offer for him during the race?

Arf arf arf.

cj
06-08-2008, 12:36 PM
Outside of BB's FL, KY, & PR wins, I agree with you. There are some nice 3yo sprinters though.

John

Isn't that the real issue? We are breeding for sprinters, so that is what we get.

Anyone that gets a chance should read Nick Mordin's books on making figures. He talks about how you have to use different scales to equate distances in different countries depending on the breeding and the distance of the big races. He wrote these books several years ago, but he has proven very prophetic.

john del riccio
06-08-2008, 12:56 PM
Isn't that the real issue? We are breeding for sprinters, so that is what we get.

Anyone that gets a chance should read Nick Mordin's books on making figures. He talks about how you have to use different scales to equate distances in different countries depending on the breeding and the distance of the big races. He wrote these books several years ago, but he has proven very prophetic.

Thats interesting. I agree, horses are being bred more unsound (which sprinters notoriously are) and being bred for speed, not stamina.


More 4 1/2f dashes for the cash will likely ensue...

JOhn

cj
06-08-2008, 12:58 PM
The ugly 2f races have been expanding at an alarming rate as well. I've seen Mth, Pen, and a few others have added them this year.

46zilzal
06-08-2008, 01:25 PM
I watched the race in the gate house with the gate crew. LL, a retired jockey, was first to yell out: "What the hell is Desormeaux doing?"

BY THE WAY PA: Joe, the starter (who has been on gate crews up an down the West coast for 30 years) helped me with an item.

Q:How often do horses, any of them, blow out the day of the race?

J: the old school fellows still do it, but it is currently "out of fashion" compared to 5-10 years ago when every horse blew out 2 to 3 furlongs the morning of the race.

KingChas
06-08-2008, 01:26 PM
Barring the distance;

The race eerily looked like a replay of War Pass's TB Derby.

JustRalph
06-08-2008, 01:26 PM
The ugly 2f races have been expanding at an alarming rate as well. I've seen Mth, Pen, and a few others have added them this year.


one question? Who the hell bets on these things??? why would you? They are basically a gate drill?

Tom
06-08-2008, 02:13 PM
Uh.....I bet them. :blush:

Wickel
06-08-2008, 03:10 PM
Me, too.

ddog
06-08-2008, 03:18 PM
in 2015 the TC is going to the following seq of races

Derby 2.5 f
Preak 2.0 f
Bel 4.0 f (outrageous)


let all breeds have a shot.

why not.

asH
06-08-2008, 03:51 PM
My criticisms of the performance of jocks in the Belmont, was for the Belmont only. Kent has always, and will always be a top jock (and others) I would trust on any horse.

as far as this being a weak crop of 3's- Dennis Of Cork ran to expectations (had him keyed for second) with relative ease. Ready's Echo ran big from 2nd to last inspite the slow fractions. I believe there are a good number of future handicap stars in this crop of 3's ..... We have the rest of the year to debate....
Big Brown will run in the Travers says connections(TVG announcement)

cmoore
06-08-2008, 03:58 PM
one question? Who the hell bets on these things??? why would you? They are basically a gate drill?

I love to bet them. You can find some big prices in those 2f races. It's all about knowing who the top sprint sires are in each particular race.

cj
06-08-2008, 04:58 PM
Handicap stars? Well, somebody has to be, but these horses are a long, lloonngg, lllooonnnggg, lllloooonnnngggg way from Curlin and Heatseeker.

Tom Barrister
06-08-2008, 05:38 PM
As I've mentioned elsewhere, and well before this race, this is by far the worst group of 3yos I have ever seen. It isn't even close.
.

Amen, and I've said that since April. Although I've seen one or two worse crops in my lifetime, none in the past 15 years come close to this one. Big Brown is a decent horse in a mediocre year. Curlin and company would have him for lunch.

asH
06-08-2008, 06:06 PM
Handicap stars? Well, somebody has to be, but these horses are a long, lloonngg, lllooonnnggg, lllloooonnnngggg way from Curlin and Heatseeker.

Curlin was the super star of his group, with a bit of 'luck' he may have been a TC winner, should of at least had two of three with better 'luck'... Maybe it was racings fortune he didnt win but one TC race. A horse like Curlin is far and few between.
As for this year's crop I agree BB has not shown his full potential, he has been held back in most of his races, probably to his detriment. Is he a super star? not yet, super stars have to run sooner or later. Dennis of Cork and Ready's Image, are consistantly showing exceptional growth and talent at distance, could they be a Curlin? unlikely, but will try.

toetoe
06-08-2008, 06:30 PM
Larry Lague ? :jump:

asH
06-09-2008, 01:46 AM
Bad Crop or inexperienced one? I think we give them a few more races before the funeral.

Denis Of Cork- one win in 07 MSW, 3 starts (2 graded)before Derby:total 4

Gayego- 2 starts in 07, 3 starts (2 graded) before Derby: total 5

Big Brown-MSW win in 07, 2 starts (one Grade 1) before Derby- total 3

Ready's Echo- one start in 07, 3 starts in 08 (Peter Pan) before Belmont. total 4

Casino Drive- 2 starts before Belmont :total 2

Last years crop

Street Sense - 5 starts in 06 (2 graded), 2 graded starts before Derby: total 7

Hard Spun - 3 starts in 06 ( 2 stakes), 3 stakes (2 graded before) Derby: total 6

Curlin- (06) 3 starts before the Derby (2 graded): total 3

Dominican- total 7 before Derby
Great Hunter- 9 before Derby
Circular Quay- 7 before Derby

PaceAdvantage
06-09-2008, 03:23 AM
Q:How often do horses, any of them, blow out the day of the race?That WASN'T MY QUESTION! Again, my question was, when was the last time (before Big Brown) a KENTUCKY DERBY STARTER blew out THE MORNING OF THE KENTUCKY DERBY?

lamboguy
06-09-2008, 07:43 AM
i never heard of anyone working a horse the morning of any race in my life!

but then again, i never heard of the numbers that the guys around the horse bet in my life all around the world in a kentucky derby with 20 contestants in it. from what i am told, there are 3 big off shore joints that went out of the horse booking business after this kentucky derby on a six dollar horse!

asH
06-10-2008, 05:57 PM
Billy Turner has a few interesting things to say.

http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45678.htm

Wickel
06-10-2008, 07:25 PM
Billy's absolutely right on. Kent should have never pulled up the horse. Superfecta and show debaters have a right to be steaming. Now it's up to the Belmont stewards to act. In one of my pre-Derby posts, I mentioned that Kent D. would have a negative impact along the way. It's a shame it came on the heels of history.

46zilzal
06-10-2008, 07:39 PM
Billy Turner has a few interesting things to say.

http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45678.htm
Good analogy to the "NO mas" fight.

asH
06-10-2008, 07:51 PM
Da Tara won cause' he gota a free pass, if Kent couldnt do it what happened to the others. BB aside,this is what happens when jocks give a horse a free pass (are not aware), with an extremely slow pace. Never should have happened while the world watched. totally embarrassing.

Only Hunches and fortune tellers were able to see Da tara crossing the line over any of these, hence the 1 mil carryover , not a hard sequence at all.