BLEEDERS...... ?

[karlskorner]

Today at GP, because of a wet track only 63 horses ran of which 58 were on LASIX. 58 out of 63 on LASIX

Tomorrow at GP 89 horses are scheduled to run of which 82 will be on LASIX. 82 out of 89 on LASIX

152 horses running in 2 days and 140 are on LASIX

Do you really believe they are all bleeders ?

[GameTheory]

If they're not now, they probably all will be at some point. As long as Lasix is allowed, there is no disincentive not to breed bleeders, giving you more bleeders. These horses are practically dependent on Lasix before they are born.

Of course, you were probably alluding to the fact that even if they aren't bleeders the Lasix probably helps them a bit, not to mention help mask whatever else they may have in the bloodstream.

So two good reasons not to allow Lasix...

[karlskorner]

What's hard to accept is that in today's 8th and 9th at GP 2 horses sired by A.p.indy (seattle slew) for a fee of $300,000.00 each, would wind up with Lasix by the 2nd time they are on the track. This caused me to review the Lasix users for today and tomorrow.

I have no idea what the owners paid for them but almost certain it was at least the same/or more than the stud fee. Apparently todays owners are willing to accept inherited bleeding and the use of Lasix, allowing the chemists a latitude in which to work in,

[kenwoodall]

I have read that in nature horses never run past 4f, so bleeding is common in racehorses. The biggest reason horses are shipped and quarantined at big expense from Europe to USA is lasix is not allowed in some countries and some east coast states). You may check pp's of horses where lasix is outlawed as to performance and inal times. Without iy Baffert would waste many more horses than he already does!!

[Observer]

Originally posted by karlskorner
152 horses running in 2 days and 140 are on LASIX

Have you ever noticed how many horses run on Bute in jurisdictions where it is permitted??

No one wants to give an edge to anyone in this game, so if there is something that can be used to help a horse's performance, whether they need it or not, my feeling is that most trainers are going to use it, for the "just in case" reasons.

I'm not sure what the rules are regarding getting a horse okayed for getting put on Lasix, but I am sure there are no uniform rules across the nation and I feel the rules are not strict enough.

[GameTheory]

I think they're at least supposed to get him "scoped" and have a vet declare him a bleeder. I think the amount of evidence needed varies from place to place...

[cj]

Originally posted by kenwoodall
...The biggest reason horses are shipped and quarantined at big expense from Europe to USA is lasix is not allowed in some countries and some east coast states...

Could you name one of those east coast states?

CJ

[kenwoodall]

Sorry- i was mistaken!

From online UC Davis- Horse Report, Jan 2001:

Fact: The diuretic Lasix can be legally administered four hours before a race to horses that have been documented with a history of bleeding. Although Lasix does lower blood pressures slightly, there is no proof that it reduces the incidence or severity of bleeding. Several studies have found evidence indicating that Lasix measurably improves racing performance; however, it dehydrates the horse prior to the race, as well as dilutes any drug residues that might be in the urine. Recent evidence indicates that Lasix causes only a slight improvement in racing performance.

[cj]

http://ecs.drf.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Product_ID=1645&CATID=18&objectgroup_ID=461

I haven't read this, but it looked pertinent to the thread.

CJ

[cj]

Noticed every horse entered at Laurel is running on Lasix tomorrow, made me think of this thread. Pretty pathetic IMO.

CJ

[Observer]

Like I said in the "Frankel Afraid" thread .. trainers simply do not want to give an ounce to the competition. What's even worse is that some sort of adjunct Lasix-type medication is now permitted ... and I do believe Maryland is a state that permits it .. basically, from what I've come to understand .. it helps to enhance the effect of Lasix .. so I guess the horses are already becoming "immune" to Lasix?? Gee, what a surprise! Where does it end?! :mad:

What I also find disturbing is the number of horses running on Bute, where it's permitted .. and how any horse that travels from where it is banned to where it is permitted will almost with 100% certainty be medicated with it .. again, they just can't give up any possible edge .. especially a permitted drug.

Check out Suffolk Downs, and notice how every single horse on the Mar. 3 & Mar. 4 card are running on Bute .. only one horse was slated to go Mar. 1 without it .. maybe that was a mistake??

[Tom]

I say no drugs on race day period.
If a horse has residule amounts in him, too bad. Next time, stop
earlier.