Twinspires TV

[Tampa Russ]

Another surprise today on Twinspires..at least a surprise to me. Seems interesting.

[cj]

Do you have a link or something? I see nothing on the home page.

[BombsAway Bob]

Do you have a link or something? I see nothing on the home page.
https://www.twinspires.com/tv/index.html?selectedTrackCode=BEL (https://www.twinspires.com/tv/index.html?selectedTrackCode=BEL)
(OK, maybe just the sweat..)

[startngate]

Based on watching Belmont's 3rd in full screen on my 22" monitor, I can confidently say IMO it's easily the best streaming video of horse racing I have ever seen.

[cmoore]

They just keep making improvements. I wonder whats next. Daily contests would be nice.

[cmoore]

Based on watching Belmont's 3rd in full screen on my 22" monitor, I can confidently say IMO it's easily the best streaming video of horse racing I have ever seen.

I'd have to agree with you. The video quality is excellent on my 26' monitor...

[DJofSD]

I requested through the feedback a mute button and a control to adjust volume.

I watched the 4th from BEL. Announced as off-turf but the race info found to the upper right of the TS TV still showed "T".

[broadreach]

Yes, excellent clarity.

[startngate]

I requested through the feedback a mute button and a control to adjust volume.If you hover over the main video feed a box pops up that allows you to change the volume and the layout of the screen.

[richrosa]

is it down already? It ain't working for me.

[DJofSD]

If you hover over the main video feed a box pops up that allows you to change the volume and the layout of the screen.
Found it - thanks. Still would want a mute button but a volume slide will do most of the time.

[startngate]

is it down already? It ain't working for me.Still working fine for me. I'm on XP with IE7 and Firefox. Does require the Flash plugin if you don't have it.

[RichieP]

Wow!!

It's so clear. Blows away anything I've seen before on the net by a LOT.

Wow!

[Javagold]

I BELIEVE YOUBET was supposed to have this TV type video online a year or more ago, before Charles Champion stole all the company/shareholders money and ran the company into an iceburg

[richrosa]

Still working fine for me. I'm on XP with IE7 and Firefox. Does require the Flash plugin if you don't have it.

Its NOT working on Firefox as I and others have found out. Nice!! Another great QA effort by the great mighty ADW.

[RichieP]

Working just fine on my FF browser.

3 meg ram and Vista home O.S.

22" wide screen and this picture is like I am in a teletheatre

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[DJofSD]

Working just fine on my system using FF. I had to install Adobe Flash but everything is fine after a restart of Windows.

[BUD]

I think its great.....I have the 2 tv's on mute....TVG>>HRTV.......I have the Twin Spires TV on capturing the live track feed......And down below I have a selection of other tracks to tune in to.........

Being A young guy that is now laid up......This here today was the best freekin gift I could get.....Holy Shttt....

Christmas in June... I love it

[startngate]

Its NOT working on Firefox as I and others have found out. Nice!! Another great QA effort by the great mighty ADW.You seem to always want to trash their developers ... probably some vendetta against the BRIS guys, but considering you appear to be a software developer yourself, I guess we can just assume you've never made a mistake with code either ... :confused:

As a developer myself, I can tell you that ALL code breaks sometimes, no matter how well the developer thinks he has done the work, and how much you QA it first. And yes, I freely admit sometimes I have to go back and fix something because an end user did something I didn't plan for and something blew up. It happens. Thankfully, I don't have to develop to large integrated systems with thousands of users, so it's easier for me to write stable code and fix it when there are issues.

Just for reference, my Gmail and Yahoo Mail accounts have crashed (Yahoo for several days in a row), eBay has crashed several times, Amazon has crashed, and countless other sites do every day. I'm sure those guys are terrible at releasing software and doing QA too. Any new major release of a product is going to have some issues. Hopefully they turn out to be minor and are fixed quickly.

For that matter YouBet, TVG, and XpressBet all have crashed famously too. From my personal experience, of all my accounts, my WinTicket (now TwinSpires) account has been the most trouble free of all of them, and now with the new features they have rolled out, they are the best betting engine I play on.

I'm not saying all of their launches have been perfect (either at TwinSpires, or at AmTab previously) but in this case maybe you need to check out your own systems first before your standard bashing TwinSpires since there are plenty of folks posting here that are getting the video just fine.

I repeat, for me (and others who have posted on this thread) it's working perfectly on Windows with either IE7 or Firefox, and the video is stunningly good. So I'm guessing the QA was pretty good before release.

And by the way ... it does say BETA on the site. I'm sure they are hoping for people to bang on it a bit harder than they were able to do internally to see if any issues come up. You've got a problem? There's a feedback button on the site. Maybe you should use it and help them if you haven't already.

The real test will be this weekend, to see if the bandwidth pipe they are using can hold up to a Belmont Day with a Triple Crown on the line. If it fails then, they will deserve all the flack you want to give them. Personally, I wouldn't have been brave enough to do this release until after Belmont Day. I hope it doesn't blow up on them.

[Spendabuck85]

I think it's great and it does say Beta so why not give it a real test by making it available on Belmont Stakes day. If it crashes, so what, users can revert back to the regular video.

[alydar]

Wow, I am very impressed, very slick

[richrosa]

You seem to always want to trash their developers ... probably some vendetta against the BRIS guys, but considering you appear to be a software developer yourself, I guess we can just assume you've never made a mistake with code either ... :confused:

As a developer myself, I can tell you that ALL code breaks sometimes, no matter how well the developer thinks he has done the work, and how much you QA it first. And yes, I freely admit sometimes I have to go back and fix something because an end user did something I didn't plan for and something blew up. It happens. Thankfully, I don't have to develop to large integrated systems with thousands of users, so it's easier for me to write stable code and fix it when there are issues.

Just for reference, my Gmail and Yahoo Mail accounts have crashed (Yahoo for several days in a row), eBay has crashed several times, Amazon has crashed, and countless other sites do every day. I'm sure those guys are terrible at releasing software and doing QA too. Any new major release of a product is going to have some issues. Hopefully they turn out to be minor and are fixed quickly.

For that matter YouBet, TVG, and XpressBet all have crashed famously too. From my personal experience, of all my accounts, my WinTicket (now TwinSpires) account has been the most trouble free of all of them, and now with the new features they have rolled out, they are the best betting engine I play on.

I'm not saying all of their launches have been perfect (either at TwinSpires, or at AmTab previously) but in this case maybe you need to check out your own systems first before your standard bashing TwinSpires since there are plenty of folks posting here that are getting the video just fine.

I repeat, for me (and others who have posted on this thread) it's working perfectly on Windows with either IE7 or Firefox, and the video is stunningly good. So I'm guessing the QA was pretty good before release.

And by the way ... it does say BETA on the site. I'm sure they are hoping for people to bang on it a bit harder than they were able to do internally to see if any issues come up. You've got a problem? There's a feedback button on the site. Maybe you should use it and help them if you haven't already.

The real test will be this weekend, to see if the bandwidth pipe they are using can hold up to a Belmont Day with a Triple Crown on the line. If it fails then, they will deserve all the flack you want to give them. Personally, I wouldn't have been brave enough to do this release until after Belmont Day. I hope it doesn't blow up on them.

I have no vendetta against TS or BRIS. I just expect more for the services that I pay for.

I'm surprised that as a developer that you are willing to forgive the obvious problems that plague ADW sites that chuck untested code and features on us. In my commercial endeavors where I have been in charge of major websites, I would never accept such compacency from my development team. I won't accept it from my HOS project, which is much more of a hobby than a business.

Each and every big racing day, most of the ADW's grind to a halt because their platforms are poorly coded, and their management lack the proper skill or resources to properly manage the capacity planning issues that go into running a transactional website that has peak traffic concerns.

With the exception of PTC, it seems that nearly every ADW out there has had missteps with new feature releases. I'd ask them kindly to test them better on all of the major browser configurations on all of the major operating systems before they release something. Calling it BETA is just an excuse to have us more easily forgive their sloppiness and have us as customers participate in QA work for them. I for one, am not amused at that.

The TwinSpires TV feature is desperately needed. I've written about it numerous times and spoke about it more often with some of racings most important insiders. I applaud TwinSpires for their product development effort in bringing a higher quality video product to the market, thus raising the bar. I've felt for a long time that horseplayers have been cheated with the grainy, thin bandwidth video that has been thrown to us.

It still remains that I have a problem using Firefox 3.0B5 on Linux, Firefox 2 on WinXP, and IE6 on WinXP and Linux under Wine, all with Flash 9 support. It hangs with the message "Loading Live Channel Listings". I wonder when it'll get fixed so I can see what the buzz is about.

[richrosa]

I think I know why it wasn't working.

I made a deposit tonight. I haven't wagered materially at TS since PTC opened. Once I deposited and made a wager, video worked.

BETA - BUG REPORT. I never received an error message saying that I didn't have privileges to access video when I logged in at http://twinspires.com/tv

My initial observations are that this looks nice, and an improvement. Side by side, this is no different than the Roberts Stream offered at other websites, albeit at this highest bandwidth rate. The Flash interface makes receipt of the video easy and speedy.

This is NOT the IPTV video streaming that the NHL, NBA, MLB, and NFL have, and that we as horseplayers deserve. In my opinion, this is a minor upgrade on what we had before, and nothing to go ga-ga about.

[startngate]

I have no vendetta against TS or BRIS. I just expect more for the services that I pay for.

I'm surprised that as a developer that you are willing to forgive the obvious problems that plague ADW sites that chuck untested code and features on us. In my commercial endeavors where I have been in charge of major websites, I would never accept such compacency from my development team. I won't accept it from my HOS project, which is much more of a hobby than a business.

Each and every big racing day, most of the ADW's grind to a halt because their platforms are poorly coded, and their management lack the proper skill or resources to properly manage the capacity planning issues that go into running a transactional website that has peak traffic concerns.

With the exception of PTC, it seems that nearly every ADW out there has had missteps with new feature releases. I'd ask them kindly to test them better on all of the major browser configurations on all of the major operating systems before they release something. Calling it BETA is just an excuse to have us more easily forgive their sloppiness and have us as customers participate in QA work for them. I for one, am not amused at that.Last time I checked TwinSpires was FREE, unless of course you need to make a credit card deposit. Yes, I have a higher tolerance level for free services than I do for services I pay for, and would certainly stop using something that I felt wasn't living up to my standards of use. Not the case here, at least for me.

I don't assume that the code is untested. In fact I suspect it's tested quite extensively before it's released. In my experience, no matter how well code is written or tested, sometimes something unexpected happens, especially under loads which often can't be tested properly until you are in a live environment.

Since I have had my account with WinTicket and now TwinSpires there has been one big day outage/slowdown that I have encountered, this year's Derby Day. I've played every Triple Crown and Breeders' Cup Day that I could (damn exclusives) with the account since BC 2001. I'd argue that they are at least doing well on big days. I can't speak for the other services because I haven't had to use them on big days. I've had my Yahoo, Gmail and eBay accounts crash on normal days. Do they have bad management too?

Every major purveyor of software does "beta" releases specifically to allow customers to provide feedback. According to your post, you are using one now (Mozilla 3). It's not done to get customers to forgive sloppiness, it's to get feedback, or as you put it to "have customers participate in QA work". In my experience, end users are usually not shy about telling me how to improve my products or if there is a problem. Beta testing is an important part of development. I don't like software blowing up any more than you do, especially when I'm trying to do something when it does. I don't condone throwing code out there that is known to fail, even if it's under "beta" status. I didn't see that being the case here, since on my three PC's under IE7 and Mozilla 2 everything was working fine.

I think I know why it wasn't working.

I made a deposit tonight. I haven't wagered materially at TS since PTC opened. Once I deposited and made a wager, video worked.

BETA - BUG REPORT. I never received an error message saying that I didn't have privileges to access video when I logged in at http://twinspires.com/tv (http://twinspires.com/tv)

My initial observations are that this looks nice, and an improvement. Side by side, this is no different than the Roberts Stream offered at other websites, albeit at this highest bandwidth rate. The Flash interface makes receipt of the video easy and speedy.

This is NOT the IPTV video streaming that the NHL, NBA, MLB, and NFL have, and that we as horseplayers deserve. In my opinion, this is a minor upgrade on what we had before, and nothing to go ga-ga about.Although I will agree with you that there should have been some appropriate error message telling you that your wagering hadn't reached the level to receive video, that appears to be the only issue with the QA of the release. Hopefully you will be a little slower on the draw to bash in the future, whether it be TwinSpires, PTC or anyone else.

And I would argue that yes it is a significant improvement over the feeds available at other websites, specifically because no one is showing the video at the same bandwidth. And since it's free at TwinSpires (with a minor level of wagering), I see it as a major step forward. The other ADWs that provide video are going to have to step up their services (if they can), which will end up benefitting everyone. It will be hard for YouBet customers to justify paying a monthly video feed unless the quality improves.

As for IPTV, IMO it's still too expensive from a bandwidth perspective to broadcast live on an open network like the interent. Closed networks (like through cable lines) is another story. Given there has been a couple of presentations on IPTV at the recent racing conferences, I suspect we'll be seeing it soon from someone. I just don't know if any end users will want to pay for it if the quality is this good with regular streaming.

[JustRalph]

You seem to always want to trash their developers ... probably some vendetta against the BRIS guys, but considering you appear to be a software developer yourself, I guess we can just assume you've never made a mistake with code either ... :confused:

As a developer myself, I can tell you that ALL code breaks sometimes, no matter how well the developer thinks he has done the work, and how much you QA it first. And yes, I freely admit sometimes I have to go back and fix something because an end user did something I didn't plan for and something blew up. It happens. Thankfully, I don't have to develop to large integrated systems with thousands of users, so it's easier for me to write stable code and fix it when there are issues.

Just for reference, my Gmail and Yahoo Mail accounts have crashed (Yahoo for several days in a row), eBay has crashed several times, Amazon has crashed, and countless other sites do every day. I'm sure those guys are terrible at releasing software and doing QA too. Any new major release of a product is going to have some issues. Hopefully they turn out to be minor and are fixed quickly.

For that matter YouBet, TVG, and XpressBet all have crashed famously too. From my personal experience, of all my accounts, my WinTicket (now TwinSpires) account has been the most trouble free of all of them, and now with the new features they have rolled out, they are the best betting engine I play on.

I'm not saying all of their launches have been perfect (either at TwinSpires, or at AmTab previously) but in this case maybe you need to check out your own systems first before your standard bashing TwinSpires since there are plenty of folks posting here that are getting the video just fine.

I repeat, for me (and others who have posted on this thread) it's working perfectly on Windows with either IE7 or Firefox, and the video is stunningly good. So I'm guessing the QA was pretty good before release.

And by the way ... it does say BETA on the site. I'm sure they are hoping for people to bang on it a bit harder than they were able to do internally to see if any issues come up. You've got a problem? There's a feedback button on the site. Maybe you should use it and help them if you haven't already.

The real test will be this weekend, to see if the bandwidth pipe they are using can hold up to a Belmont Day with a Triple Crown on the line. If it fails then, they will deserve all the flack you want to give them. Personally, I wouldn't have been brave enough to do this release until after Belmont Day. I hope it doesn't blow up on them.


great post!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[richrosa]

startngate,

I'm glad you are happy with Twin Spires.

Personally, I think the industry can do better. I'll bestow my business on those innovators who bring something to the table to me as the customer. I have a higher bar set for excellence and larger expectations.

[cmoore]

I emailed twinspires about daily contests. I got an email back and they said, "We do have plans for some sort of daily wagering contests in the works".

[dvlander]

Besides the improved video quality, I think a major benefit of this is the ability to instantly switch from one track to another. The listing also shows each track's upcoming race and MTP. It helps a lot on those days where multiple tracks have races going off in rapid fire order.

One way I would improve it is to have the ability to limit the track choices to those I am interested in. If I'm playing thoroughbreds at MNR and CTX at night, I don't need harness racing from Balmoral among my list choices or in the mini video boxes.

That's a minor issue though. I'm a PTC guy because of Ian's fantastic service, software interface, and of course, rebates. However, I think we have to give credit where credit is due and this is a very nice improvement. I'll continue to play non-PTC tracks at TS as a result.

Dale

[trigger]

Its NOT working on Firefox as I and others have found out. Nice!! Another great QA effort by the great mighty ADW.

Richrosa quote:
"I absolutely guarantee that TwinSpires WILL NOT be the company that brings forth video feed innovation."

See "RTN..Yes" Thread

[richrosa]

Richrosa quote:
"I absolutely guarantee that TwinSpires WILL NOT be the company that brings forth video feed innovation."

See "RTN..Yes" Thread

Yup I said that. The product delivered yesterday is dressing up the same video feed that's been available forever, under a very well done Flash interface. I applaud this very small step in video innovation, but to compare this to the IPTV offerings of the NHL, MLB, NBA, and NFL, we'd be kidding ourselves.

The NHL Center ice offers IPTV broadband feeds of four games simultaneously at bandwidth and clarity levels that far surpass what's been offered in racing so far, on a near real time basis (less than one second delay). The technology is out there, but the major racing entities have so far neglected to invest in it. Like I said in earlier posts, we as paying customers, deserve better.

[DJofSD]

Rich,

I have to agree to a large extent for this reason: I had AT&T U-verse installed for about 6 months. It's all IPTV. With a single Twisted Wired Pair (TWP) -- copper wiring used for Plain Old Telephone Service (POTS) -- you get four feeds of switched digital video, 3 SDTV and 1 HDTV. Those are simultaneous.

The U-verse HD signals are pretty good. Audio for the HD was fantastic.

This is to say that IPTV using typical broadband speeds is very possible and should not have any impact on the signal quality.

Just based upon my experience with U-verse, I would say the Twin Spires repackaging could be improved but if it is a repackaging of the Roberts feed then I think Twin Spires will only be able to guild the lilly -- but that could go a long ways towards making the TS TV experience a good one.

So, like the old saw, garbage in, garbage out.

[Lasix67]

This is a nice improvement to say the least. I have had RTN and I have been an advocate of the satellite service, but as of today I have discontinued my RTN service and I went with a AITech connector from my extra laptop to my Vizio hdtv and the quality is pretty close to what RTN was giving me and I don't have to pay $99 a month. :)

[Indulto]

What tracks can be viewed through Twin Spires?

Is this technology patentable (or otherwise exclusive), or will their competitors soon be offering the same thing?

[trigger]

What tracks can be viewed through Twin Spires?

Is this technology patentable (or otherwise exclusive), or will their competitors soon be offering the same thing?

Depends, the THG have to ok any other ADW's use of this technology. :D

[Lasix67]

All tracks available for wagering on Twinspires including Churchill which is not. These are the same tracks offered by RTN as well without the dogtracks.

[Indulto]

All tracks available for wagering on Twinspires including Churchill which is not. These are the same tracks offered by RTN as well without the dogtracks.So does that mean SAR and BEL, but not DMR or MTH?

[RichieP]

So does that mean SAR and BEL, but not DMR or MTH?

Yes to both of those

[richrosa]

What tracks can be viewed through Twin Spires?

Is this technology patentable (or otherwise exclusive), or will their competitors soon be offering the same thing?

What would be patentable? Video streaming is a mature technology offering. I doubt that there is anything new here, besides a shiny, sparkling, brand new interface.

Last evening I baked off a Roberts stream of the highest quality that they offer, and it was no different in quality than the Flash-based interface (like YouTube and others) that TS TV is offering.

I suppose if there was something revolutionary in the UI that I'm not seeing, they could seek patents. If that was the case they would have already told us that as part of their marketing smush.

[whobet]

Whobet has an idea,

go to my BLOG,

http://mysite.verizon.net/whobet/trks2day.html

And send this link to every track/site that you hate it's video,

I only post free video, not even BRIS/TS,

if we bombard the tracks with emails asking for Free High Quality Video,

maybe "1" wil listen, Don't expect too much,

I put that video column on there for this same purpose,
so the Non-free video tracks would see they are lacking Free Video,
they probably don't care, but send them emails.

[richrosa]

Whobet has an idea,

go to my BLOG,

http://mysite.verizon.net/whobet/trks2day.html

And send this link to every track/site that you hate it's video,

I only post free video, not even BRIS/TS,


This is a fine list. I hope you don't put it together manually. It looks like a lot of work.

[DeanT]

This is good stuff and what should be happening in the ADW world.

Bob Evans said in the Bloodhorse piece a few months ago that he believed sinking a pile of cash into ADW is the way to go, so it appears he is putting his cash where hs mouth is.

Which brings us to the horseman fight. They want half off all revenue. How much capital are they adding? How much of this have they paid for? They should get a percentage of profits, not of raw revenue, imo.

Jeff Gural who owns a few harness tracks was recently describing the situation in Florida. There the owners of Pompano Park had to build a casino, and they fund all of the marketing etc. The horse owners want half the revenue. He said in the interview if they want half the revenue there, then put in half the cost. Makes sense to me. Maybe Bob should ask for $50M or $100M from purses for half his costs, and send out invoices for the variable costs to run Twinspires to THG then? Then they can have half.

[DJofSD]

Which brings us to the horseman fight. They want half off all revenue. How much capital are they adding? How much of this have they paid for? They should get a percentage of profits, not of raw revenue, imo.

Jeff Gural who owns a few harness tracks was recently describing the situation in Florida. There the owners of Pompano Park had to build a casino, and they fund all of the marketing etc. The horse owners want half the revenue. He said in the interview if they want half the revenue there, then put in half the cost. Makes sense to me. Maybe Bob should ask for $50M or $100M from purses for half his costs, and send out invoices for the variable costs to run Twinspires to THG then? Then they can have half.

It all makes sense to me.

They didn't take any risk on the front side, why should the reap any reward on the back side?

[vgeek]

I think the old video streams were 330kbps and the TV with all streams stopped except for the main one seems like it is running closer to 600kbps on dumeter. So maybe the quality has increased, is there still a 30 second delay from live or has it been reduced?

[whobet]

Whobet,

is now collecting RaceTrack Email addreses or Race Track Email HTML pages to help you all complain ABOUT LACK OF FREE VIDEO

[PaceAdvantage]

Back to the topic at hand....

I'm having much trouble getting any type of consistent quality on TwinSpires TV. I'm running all new equipment (3 months old), IE 7, Vista, super fast cable modem, etc. etc.

Anyone else experiencing lots and lots of stuttering with this video? Especially on the more popular tracks?

The regular TwinSpires video works perfectly for me....I wish this TwinSpires TV would do the same....then again, it is still in BETA....

[KMS]

So does that mean SAR and BEL, but not DMR or MTH?

I have bet on and watched Monmouth thru Twinspires within the past three days.

[BUD]

Back to the topic at hand....

I'm having much trouble getting any type of consistent quality on TwinSpires TV. I'm running all new equipment (3 months old), IE 7, Vista, super fast cable modem, etc. etc.

Anyone else experiencing lots and lots of stuttering with this video? Especially on the more popular tracks?

The regular TwinSpires video works perfectly for me....I wish this TwinSpires TV would do the same....then again, it is still in BETA....

I am....It seems and I'm serious it happens when Jan Rushton is doing the Paddock report...I'm really paying attention..Then, I lose the signal and miss what the heck she was talking about......And consistently the Mountaineer signal is awful....Not even watchable....

[Ron]

Back to the topic at hand....

I'm having much trouble getting any type of consistent quality on TwinSpires TV. I'm running all new equipment (3 months old), IE 7, Vista, super fast cable modem, etc. etc.

Anyone else experiencing lots and lots of stuttering with this video? Especially on the more popular tracks?

The regular TwinSpires video works perfectly for me....I wish this TwinSpires TV would do the same....then again, it is still in BETA....

Same thing here, PA. Although I like the concept of the new TwinSpires TV, I still use the regular video because the performance is much better.

[KMS]

it's intermittent with me, sometimes fine and sometimes choppy. I don't know how much of that is Twinspires and how much is my internet connection. The resolution is better than the old video and I do like the fact that it's web based and I don't have to fire up my media player to watch it.

[richrosa]

Back to the topic at hand....

I'm having much trouble getting any type of consistent quality on TwinSpires TV. I'm running all new equipment (3 months old), IE 7, Vista, super fast cable modem, etc. etc.

Anyone else experiencing lots and lots of stuttering with this video? Especially on the more popular tracks?

The regular TwinSpires video works perfectly for me....I wish this TwinSpires TV would do the same....then again, it is still in BETA....

I know I'm repeating myself, however this is NOT the revolutionary IPTV type video that we've been waiting for and that other sports have. Anyone who was one of the millions watching the US Golf Open playoff round Monday can attest to that.

I think the Keenland video feed this fall is something to look forward too. Innovation seems to always come from that clan.

[cmoore]

it's intermittent with me, sometimes fine and sometimes choppy. I don't know how much of that is Twinspires and how much is my internet connection. The resolution is better than the old video and I do like the fact that it's web based and I don't have to fire up my media player to watch it.

I emailed them about the choppy video..This is there response..

Dear Mr. Moore,
The TwinSpires TV requires a high speed internet connection to allow for
the increased amount of data with multiple track feeds. Note that even
with a cable or DSL connection the actual speed at your computer can
fluctuate with the number of concurrent users and the quality of the line.
Please test your internet connection speed using the link in our FAQ.

To get to the link, Click the Support Tab on the right in the tool bar
across the top of the home page, then the TwinSpires TV FAQ. The 3rd
question is regarding minimum computer requirements and internet
connection. The 5th sentence includes a link to a speed meter website.
If your connection speed is over 1.5 mbps and you are still experiencing
difficulties, please let us know.

If you do find that you have a slower connection speed, you will be able
to view the traditional WMP video with no problems.

[cmoore]

I emailed them about the choppy video..This is there response..

Dear Mr. Moore,
The TwinSpires TV requires a high speed internet connection to allow for
the increased amount of data with multiple track feeds. Note that even
with a cable or DSL connection the actual speed at your computer can
fluctuate with the number of concurrent users and the quality of the line.
Please test your internet connection speed using the link in our FAQ.

To get to the link, Click the Support Tab on the right in the tool bar
across the top of the home page, then the TwinSpires TV FAQ. The 3rd
question is regarding minimum computer requirements and internet
connection. The 5th sentence includes a link to a speed meter website.
If your connection speed is over 1.5 mbps and you are still experiencing
difficulties, please let us know.

If you do find that you have a slower connection speed, you will be able
to view the traditional WMP video with no problems.

I just did a test on my connection....It should be running flawless and its not..

Speed Meter

Your current bandwidth reading is
4.73 Mbps 4.73 Mbps
You

3 Mbps


1.5 Mbps


1 Mbps


768 Kbps


384 Kbps

[JustRalph]

don't forget the route changes from a speed test to their server..........

try a tracert to both and see what the difference is.............

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, I have 13.5 Mbps and my video is still junk most of the time on TwinSpiresTV, even IF I turn off ALL the video feeds except for the main one....

[BUD]

today during the 60 minute pick 6 it was the worst.......

[richrosa]

Roberts Communications provides all of the streams to TS, and in fact to all of the other ADW's as well (Charlston gets theirs downstream from Roberts). I've never done specific research, but I bet that they are self-hosted and providing all of these streams through tiny little, non-burstable data pipes and have an infrastructure that is NOT set up for todays streaming demands.

Again, you all can get excited about the little cracker crumb that TwinSpires gave you in TwinSprires TV (which I think they did a real good job on the interface with), but if Roberts is still using the same two tomato cans and string between them, they'll get hosed like they always have at peak times, and not deliver the greatest video.

[BIG49010]

Just watch Belmont on HRTV vs TVG, and you see how poor the Roberts / RTN/ HRTV / Twinspires TV pipe is. TVG must be working off a direct feed from Belmont, because it is like night and day. On Sunny days at Belmont you can see the dapples on horses with TVG, and on HRTV the horses almost look blurry.

I am refering to TV of course, and it gets even worse over the net.

[PaceAdvantage]

One positive on TwinSpiresTV (when it is actually working) is that there is virtually NO delay anymore (compared to watching on TVG, for instance). I was watching a feed simultaneously on TwinSpiresTV and live on TVG (cable TV), and there was, at most, maybe one second of a delay between the TVG signal and the TwinSpires internet feed....usually, there is between 15-30 seconds of delay over the 'net....

[startngate]

Roberts Communications provides all of the streams to TS, and in fact to all of the other ADW's as well (Charlston gets theirs downstream from Roberts). I've never done specific research, but I bet that they are self-hosted and providing all of these streams through tiny little, non-burstable data pipes and have an infrastructure that is NOT set up for todays streaming demands.
I believe Charlson does their own streaming video, as opposed to getting it from Roberts. The former AmericaTab used them prior to switching to Roberts in late 2006. TwinSpires was also using the Charlson feeds prior to their acquisition of AmericaTab and the merging of the sites. The Charlson feeds were IMO much better quality and were delayed less than the Roberts streaming feeds.

I think YouBet and CalRacing both still use the Charlson replays. I have heard from others that Nassau and NJ account wagering systems are using them too.

Charlson would have to get the satellite feeds from Roberts (as does everyone else) but I don't think they are repackaging the Roberts streams.

Keeneland's HD video will be great to watch on-track, and if they have any races on network TV (assuming you have HDTV). It's not going to be that big an improvement for simulcast viewers or streaming video watchers. The signal still has to be uplinked, which means an encoding / uplink / downlink / decoding process which will not be done in HD. Granted, the initial quality will be better going in, but it's going to get hosed in the broadcast, especially considering most tracks aren't set up to show HD broadcasts.

Now, if Keeneland put a streaming video encoder in-house, and sent the video directly to Akamai at say 1500k, then we'd have something ... :jump:

Just watch Belmont on HRTV vs TVG, and you see how poor the Roberts / RTN/ HRTV / Twinspires TV pipe is. TVG must be working off a direct feed from Belmont, because it is like night and day. On Sunny days at Belmont you can see the dapples on horses with TVG, and on HRTV the horses almost look blurry.

I am refering to TV of course, and it gets even worse over the net. You can't compare the "pipe" for the broadcast TV to the "pipe" for TwinSpires TV.

All track video is encoded at the host track and uplinked to a satellite ... then downlinked from that satellite using a decoder on the receiving end. Everyone on the receiving end gets the same signals, so how it's processed after being received is what makes/breaks the quality. Some tracks (including NYRA) send out two feeds, one with the tote graphics on it and one without for TVG and HRTV to overlay their own onto.

Once the signal is downlinked, it has to be encoded again for streaming video, which is where the additional delay and degradation of quality figures in. There are many different qualities of streaming video encoders, so the same signal can look very different based on the encoder.

My guess is that TVG probably has higher quality equipment in their control room than they do at Santa Anita where HRTV is put together. At one time TVG was working with Fox Sports (maybe they still are) so I'm sure they had access to the best engineers.

[beenacoach]

One positive on TwinSpiresTV (when it is actually working) is that there is virtually NO delay anymore (compared to watching on TVG, for instance). I was watching a feed simultaneously on TwinSpiresTV and live on TVG (cable TV), and there was, at most, maybe one second of a delay between the TVG signal and the TwinSpires internet feed....usually, there is between 15-30 seconds of delay over the 'net....

That is interesting because I had just the opposite occurance today. Bemont race via twinspires was a full two seconds behind TVG's broadcast. I was on my computer using an Air card connection to Twinspires though so maybe that was part of it.

[PaceAdvantage]

That is interesting because I had just the opposite occurance today. Bemont race via twinspires was a full two seconds behind TVG's broadcast. I was on my computer using an Air card connection to Twinspires though so maybe that was part of it.Maybe I misspoke. I meant to say the TwinSpires feed was about one second behind TVG (on cable TV). You just stated two seconds....essentially the same thing....

On YouBet and the old TwinSpires video, it was anywhere between 15-30 seconds behind....so one or two seconds is a vast improvement.

[merkaba]

All,

Those of you who speculate the size and scalability of the Roberts Streams will be interested to know:



Provisioned on a six carrier diverse internet platform using only tier one providers. ( oc 48 floor for each carrier) (RICHROSA TAKE NOTE) If you’re a betting man as you say Ill give you the odds you are looking for on your speculative bet!





Using only clustering technology for services (flash and windows) Ability to scale

beyond current and future racing user apps.



In the spirit of being first to market with the "best" user interface ADW's have now introduced multiple potential bottle necks involving resources. Bandwidth being the most evident but many other factors need to be considered. Internet is not television and your TV set does not understand bandwidth and resources like you PC does. having 14 mbs of available internet access at your home gives you the ability to access the Internet at that speed occasionally but the internet and your gateway do not know what type of video processor your PC has and its available on board memory or the system resources available on your machine during the time you’re trying to watch the high bit rate streams being made available to you.



The streaming game has changed for racing now that users are able to watch multiple streams at much higher bit rates than previously available. Do us all a favor and don’t compare watching golf on the internet vs. horse racing. A perfect non moving background vs. perhaps the most difficult video to fine tune gives no one a sense or whets good or bad. Movement = video processing power and resources.



A point of clarification for all.... Roberts does do the streams for TS but not for all. Charlson does their own as well as Ubet.

[richrosa]

Greetings merkaba,

I was certain that the lack of video quality and innovation was our fault. Please forgive us for being a dumb customer. In the future we'll try to do better and put up with inferior products. I promise we will.

BTW, I've generally used the example of NHL Center Ice Online as being the premier IPTV Sports broadcasting example. Hockey has plenty of movement as does the adult business which has streaming down cold and doesn't tell the customer that its their fault when they can't view high-quality content (so I am told by media reports).

Again, we're sorry for being dumb customers.

All,

Those of you who speculate the size and scalability of the Roberts Streams will be interested to know:



Provisioned on a six carrier diverse internet platform using only tier one providers. ( oc 48 floor for each carrier) (RICHROSA TAKE NOTE) If you’re a betting man as you say Ill give you the odds you are looking for on your speculative bet!





Using only clustering technology for services (flash and windows) Ability to scale

beyond current and future racing user apps.



In the spirit of being first to market with the "best" user interface ADW's have now introduced multiple potential bottle necks involving resources. Bandwidth being the most evident but many other factors need to be considered. Internet is not television and your TV set does not understand bandwidth and resources like you PC does. having 14 mbs of available internet access at your home gives you the ability to access the Internet at that speed occasionally but the internet and your gateway do not know what type of video processor your PC has and its available on board memory or the system resources available on your machine during the time you’re trying to watch the high bit rate streams being made available to you.



The streaming game has changed for racing now that users are able to watch multiple streams at much higher bit rates than previously available. Do us all a favor and don’t compare watching golf on the internet vs. horse racing. A perfect non moving background vs. perhaps the most difficult video to fine tune gives no one a sense or whets good or bad. Movement = video processing power and resources.



A point of clarification for all.... Roberts does do the streams for TS but not for all. Charlson does their own as well as Ubet.