Greatness disappearing

[46zilzal]

Other than Ghostzapper, there haven't been any even approaching great after the 1990's.

[HolyBull29]

Invasor,Curlin,Point Given

[TheGhost]

What about Saint Liam and Tiz Now.
Also Big Brown might be,but prob will not find out unless he runs a fast Belmont.

[witchdoctor]

Invasor - yes
Curlin -yes
Point Given- You got to be kidding

[46zilzal]

Invasor - yes
Curlin -yes
Point Given- You got to be kidding
Garnering this list was why I asked the question.

[HolyBull29]

Point Given-Kentucky Juvenile
Holywood Futurity
San Felipe Stakes
Santa Anita Derby
Preakness Stakes
Belmont Stakes
Haskell Invitational
Travers Stakes

I think a better Derby trip and he wins the Triple Crown. How fast was his Belmont Stakes 2:26.4. Yeah I was kidding about Point Given?

[HolyBull29]

Garnering this list was why I asked the question.

Are you saying none of those horses listed approached greatness? or you were just looking for more horses to add.

[Shenanigans]

Other than Ghostzapper, there haven't been any even approaching great after the 1990's.

I don't understand how a bad footed horse that only ran a few races a year can be considered "great". He was well spotted, and had bubble wrap on him most the time and he's considered great? Racing is really hurting.

[46zilzal]

I don't understand how a bad footed horse that only ran a few races a year can be considered "great". He was well spotted, and had bubble wrap on him most the time and he's considered great? Racing is really hurting.
My point in starting this thread.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't understand how a bad footed horse that only ran a few races a year can be considered "great". He was well spotted, and had bubble wrap on him most the time and he's considered great? Racing is really hurting.Have you been peeking at my posts concerning Ghostzapper from years past? (Just kidding). I agree 100%

[asH]

Some folk will never be convinced, no matter how good the argument. There are some who are so passionate about their heroes that they take it personally...Ive been in of a few of these ‘discussions’ before I realized the fertility...in the end, (logic aside) regardless of how good the data it is only an argument that will never be proven.

[jma]

Yeah, if your standards are that for a horse to be "great" he has to run 15 races a year and win carrying 135 pounds, then you're right, there won't be any more great horses.

[OTM Al]

How about a couple foreigners

Makybe Diva
Ouija Board
Deep Impact

Candy Ride was pretty fragile too like Ghostzapper, but when healthy could crush anything on any surface

And I still think Lost in the Fog was pretty special. Horse won a grade stakes while dealing with the cancer that would be his end no so much later

[ghostyapper]

I don't understand how a bad footed horse that only ran a few races a year can be considered "great". He was well spotted, and had bubble wrap on him most the time and he's considered great? Racing is really hurting.

6.5 Furlongs in 1.14 3/5
7 Furlongs in 1.20 2/5
8 Furlongs in 1.33 1/5 including sub 22 internal fraction
9 Furlongs in 1.47 3/5 on mud 1.46 1/5 on fast
10 Furlongs in 1.59

In 11 races he showed everything a great horse possibly could show on the track. Win short, middle, and long, win sloppy and fast, win in front, stalking, and from back, win easy and hard, win off layoff and 3 week break

No he did not have the 20+ races most of the greats had but in those 11 races he was great.

[ghostyapper]

Point Given-Kentucky Juvenile
Holywood Futurity
San Felipe Stakes
Santa Anita Derby
Preakness Stakes
Belmont Stakes
Haskell Invitational
Travers Stakes

I think a better Derby trip and he wins the Triple Crown. How fast was his Belmont Stakes 2:26.4. Yeah I was kidding about Point Given?

He had a great resume but he never did face older horses.

[Stevie Belmont]

I never get involved in this banter-No order

These are some that I have seen run-Once Again No Order And Im going preclude 3 year olds

Ghostzapper
Invasor
Curlin
Tiznow
Mineshaft
English Channel
St Liam
Candy Ride
Ouji Board

I said no 3 year olds, but yes Point Given was a very good horse. He could be called great and I have no issues.

[HolyBull29]

He had a great resume but he never did face older horses.

Name any three yr olds that do now? I think Point Given ran in enough top races and very good enough times to compete with older horses. He was awesome. IMO

[ghostyapper]

Name any three yr olds that do now? I think Point Given ran in enough top races and very good enough times to compete with older horses. He was awesome. IMO

The top 5 3yo all showed up in the classic last year against older. Bernardini, lawyer ron, brother derek did the year before as well.

[classhandicapper]

I think Invasor definitely belongs on any GREAT list.

His record is almost flawless.

He beat a very stong opponent in Bernadini.

He overcame some difficult trips to win.

He won in multiple countries over a variety of surfaces.

He was probably still improving when his career ended.

[46zilzal]

I think Invasor definitely belongs on any GREAT list.

His record is almost flawless.

He beat a very stong opponent in Bernadini.

He overcame some difficult trips to win.

He won in multiple countries over a variety of surfaces.

He was probably still improving when his career ended.
Yes to all of these notions

[PaceAdvantage]

6.5 Furlongs in 1.14 3/5
7 Furlongs in 1.20 2/5
8 Furlongs in 1.33 1/5 including sub 22 internal fraction
9 Furlongs in 1.47 3/5 on mud 1.46 1/5 on fast
10 Furlongs in 1.59Refresh my memory....why did Frankel wait so long to stretch him out? Was it because he had Peace Rules going at the same time?

[HolyBull29]

The top 5 3yo all showed up in the classic last year against older. Bernardini, lawyer ron, brother derek did the year before as well.

Lawyer Ron,Bernardini,and especially Brother Derek were'nt worth the money and breeding hoopla that Point Given was.

[Semipro]

Smarty Jones may not be considered great by many but he has a pretty damn good resume.Ghostzapper was lightning in a bottle. Tiznow in top form would give any horse of any era a run for thier money.Invasor would do the same.

[46zilzal]

. Tiznow in top form would give any horse of any era a run for thier money

INCONSISTENT except at the Breeder's Cup. I would bet against him.

[ghostyapper]

Refresh my memory....why did Frankel wait so long to stretch him out? Was it because he had Peace Rules going at the same time?

It was Medaglia D'oro

[ghostyapper]

Lawyer Ron,Bernardini,and especially Brother Derek were'nt worth the money and breeding hoopla that Point Given was.

Are you saying before the breeders cup, Bernardini was not worth as much as point given? I STRONGlY disagree

[thelyingthief]

Yeah, if your standards are that for a horse to be "great" he has to run 15 races a year and win carrying 135 pounds, then you're right, there won't be any more great horses.


right, so let's all agree to call anything great that sucks, and give it a place in history.

dude, i see where you have your head stuck, and all, but isn't it dark in there?

tlt

[thelyingthief]

"great" is a tragically overworked phrase. hell, they use it to describe football catches, fer christ's sake.

i personally have seen very few things that are great: seeing a man waltz the lunar surface was great; i saw a man stand up for an abused child once; i saw secretariat run. interestingly, secretariat is the only athlete i can praise whatsoever; maybe that's why i love horse-racing to this day. he WAS a great animal, i mean, a GREAT animal--and it's a greatness that does not diminish with time, but grows more distinct.

i doubt i'll remember any of the names thus far mentioned in 20 years. when you talk about great, seems to me, the term must mean something truly spectacular. otherwise, after awhile you tend to diminish the stellar by associating it with the mundane. the result of that? YOU become mundane; YOU see nothing great; YOU long for nothing to ennoble you.

tlt

[PaceAdvantage]

It was Medaglia D'oroNo, I just looked it up. It was Peace Rules. Both GZ and PR were born in 2000. Medaglia D'oro was a year older, born in 1999.

Peace Rules was Frankel's triple crown horse, while Ghostzapper was kept on the back burner, sprinting.....a potentially huge mistake given how history showed both these horses to be.....

[ghostyapper]

No, I just looked it up. It was Peace Rules. Both GZ and PR were born in 2000. Medaglia D'oro was a year older, born in 1999.

Peace Rules was Frankel's triple crown horse, while Ghostzapper was kept on the back burner, sprinting.....a potentially huge mistake given how history showed both these horses to be.....

I am talking about MDO in regards to 2004, the year Ghostzapper was stretched out. Heading into the year MDO was frankels Breeders Cup horse but he retired in june after the dubai race.

In 2003 ghostzapper was injured early so he was not ready for the triple crown races. He didn't stretch him out later in the year because he had MDO and Empire Maker running routes.

[PaceAdvantage]

Right, I forgot about Empire Maker as well....Peace Rules and Empire Maker...no wonder Ghostzapper never got the chance to go long until his 2nd start as a 4yo....

[lilmegahertz]

Lost in the Fog...to run like he did while that tragic tumor was growing inside him....when asked who did he beat I like to say the pain and wanning energy from his terrible burden.....