Don't Look Now,,,,,but we may be winning?

[JustRalph]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/31/AR2008053101927.html

The Iraqi Upturn
Don't look now, but the U.S.-backed government and army may be winning the war.
Sunday, June 1, 2008; B06

THERE'S BEEN a relative lull in news coverage and debate about Iraq in recent weeks -- which is odd, because May could turn out to have been one of the most important months of the war. While Washington's attention has been fixed elsewhere, military analysts have watched with astonishment as the Iraqi government and army have gained control for the first time of the port city of Basra and the sprawling Baghdad neighborhood of Sadr City, routing the Shiite militias that have ruled them for years and sending key militants scurrying to Iran. At the same time, Iraqi and U.S. forces have pushed forward with a long-promised offensive in Mosul, the last urban refuge of al-Qaeda. So many of its leaders have now been captured or killed that U.S. Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker, renowned for his cautious assessments, said that the terrorists have "never been closer to defeat than they are now."

Iraq passed a turning point last fall when the U.S. counterinsurgency campaign launched in early 2007 produced a dramatic drop in violence and quelled the incipient sectarian war between Sunnis and Shiites. Now, another tipping point may be near, one that sees the Iraqi government and army restoring order in almost all of the country, dispersing both rival militias and the Iranian-trained "special groups" that have used them as cover to wage war against Americans. It is -- of course -- too early to celebrate; though now in disarray, the Mahdi Army of Moqtada al-Sadr could still regroup, and Iran will almost certainly seek to stir up new violence before the U.S. and Iraqi elections this fall. Still, the rapidly improving conditions should allow U.S. commanders to make some welcome adjustments -- and it ought to mandate an already-overdue rethinking by the "this-war-is-lost" caucus in Washington, including Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.).

~more at the link~

[ddog]

I wish any of that would pass for good news.

the long term future there is elections at some point or a total melt down.

Once elections are held the hard line forces will acquire significant authority in the new gvt.

At that point or soon there after we will draw down as things will be looking good.

Soon after that the country will spin back to where the majority of the people still are, a religious theocratic gvt.

it would take a generation or two or three and or the deconversion of most of the country from Islam and the surrounding nations to leave it be for that to change, if it ever does.
We will not be there that long as we will be broke or under a theocracy here before that time passes.


it will be shown to have been for nothing.

[PaceAdvantage]

You see, this is why you haven't read much about Iraq lately...not many can admit to ANY good news. Even when there IS actually good news....

[lsbets]

The good news is no surprise to the few who actually understand Iraq. Unfortunately there are many more who think they understand than actually do.

[ddog]

yes, i agree all knowledge is contained only in those you agree with.

i am fine with that.

as in all things, we will see, we will see.

As for Pa, the goon squad, i think he is now,

anytime less of our guys get kiled,maimed in Iraq or anywhere in the world that's good news.
anytime less Iraqi's get killed/maimed and more side with the gvt , that's good news.

it doesn't contradict a thing I said and I am kind of sad for you that you always resort to the high school strawman act it seems.

get over it, you and Isbets don't know , as proven by your past posts everything either.

Pls post where you think one should go for the good news of Iraq.
Let's check it out.

You too Isbets, let's air it out right in this thread.

[wonatthewire1]

The really good news about Iraq (highly anticipating)...

1. US gone
2. Oil flowing
3. Iraqis not killing each other

Good start with the news from the last few days....

[lsbets]

ddog, I would love to respond to your last post, but even after several attempts at reading it, I am having a hard time understanding it. Maybe its just me. But if part of your post involves wondering why I say few actually understand Iraq, my comment is based on those who lump Iraq in with all the other nations in the area without understanding the unique people and culture of the nation and its different regions. I would say that applies to at least 90% of the people who have commented on it here, at least 90% of the administration, 95% of the Dem party leadership, and far too many of the military people in charge, especially during OIF II and III. There has been little to no real discussion of what went right in the immediate aftermath of the invasion, what went wrong 6 months into it, what made it worse in 2004 and after the elections in 2005, and why things have improved so dramatically over the past year. I don't even know if the discussion would be worth it, because it seems most folks have their minds made up and could care less about the realities of Iraq.

[46zilzal]

Invade a sovereign country, destroy the infrastructure, kill thousands and put the country in chaos, then piss off the population having an occupying army stay forever.

Yes that's real progress Sho' 'nuff.

[Marshall Bennett]

Liberals don't want any good news . What they hope for is a constant butt beating at least till the fall election . What they hope for are more dead soldiers than ever before , anything to help them in November . They'll never win on their own merits , they haven't any . As pathetic as it may seem , its the state their party is in , and what they've been reduced to .

[46zilzal]

ddog, I would love to respond to your last post, but even after several attempts at reading it, I am having a hard time understanding it. Maybe its just me. But if part of your post involves wondering why I say few actually understand Iraq,
Reminds me a bit of the idiots I went to school with in San Franciso: twangs still on their speech and with a whole year's worth of experience in California, they would tell us natives all about the state we grew up in!!

[JustRalph]

Reminds me a bit of the idiots I went to school with in San Franciso: twangs still on their speech and with a whole year's worth of experience in California, they would tell us natives all about the state we grew up in!!

You have to be the largest ass in the history of this board.

How long did you spend in Iraq? Did you command Troops there? Did you interact with the population? Did you sit in on the briefings from the Iraqi Government? I believe LSBETS did!!!

Did you do anything at all that allows you to even have one iota (http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?iota) of knowledge of what happens on the ground there? I think not.

I think that I will take what LS says at face value and maybe put your anti-American ramblings where they belong.........on the junk pile of the Left Leaning Socialist Agenda that you attempt to advance every day. I have to admit,,,,,,,,,,,you are a legend in your own mind. All 6'3 of you.............

[Tom]

Ralph, he did stay at a Holiday Inn last night! :lol:

[46zilzal]

You have to be the largest ass in the history of this board.

How long did you spend in Iraq? Did you command Troops there? Did you interact with the population? Did you sit in on the briefings from the Iraqi Government? I believe LSBETS did!!!

.
Yes and I visited Ireland. Doesn't mean my presence there, by itself, added a bit to the knowledge of other than what I saw and interpreted.

Soldier boys don't know any more than their superiors let them know, which isn't much.

Only report after report of incompetence and widespread misery, BUT that can't be true!!!! Faux says differently.

[JustRalph]

Yes and I visited Ireland. Doesn't mean my presence there, by itself, added a bit to the knowledge of other than what I saw and interpreted.

Soldier boys don't know any more than their superiors let them know, which isn't much.

Only report after report of incompetence and widespread misery, BUT that can't be true!!!! Faux says differently.

You don't know what the hell you are talking about? The man is not a "soldier boy" he is an Officer in the United States Army! He is a commander of men.....who abides by standards of conduct and responsibilities beyond the norm...........They just don't hand out sparkly things for guys to wear on their shoulders......you earn them.............you wouldn't know anything about that.

I don't have to stand up for LS..........anybody who reads this board knows what you are. End of story............

[46zilzal]

The Woodward Trilogy, Fiasco, CBC, BBC, Asian News Agency, Australian News Agency, Al Jazerra, Associated Press, NBC, CNN, MSNBC....all tell you the same thing: the war is crap the people are suffering, and the civil war remains, BUT one person says differently and we are to believe him over all of this independent reporting. Bull shit.

Your'e real good at always telling people that a debate is ended or telling someone to shut a series down. Just like Faux: Cut his mike!!, of the O'Reilly SHUT UP....Handy way to suppress an informed difference fo opinion isn't it?

[JustRalph]

The Woodward Trilogy, Fiasco, CBC, BBC, Asian News Agency, Australian News Agency, Al Jazerra, Associated Press, NBC, CNN, MSNBC....all tell you the same thing: the war is crap the people are suffering, and the civil war remains, BUT one person says differently and we are to believe him over all of this independent reporting. Bull shit.

Your'e real good at always telling people that a debate is ended or telling someone to shut a series down. Just like Faux: Cut his mike!!, of the O'Reilly SHUT UP....Handy way to suppress an informed difference fo opinion isn't it?

I suggest you go back to the article in the original post............congrats on hijacking another thread...............

[46zilzal]

The Greatest Story Ever Sold - Frank Rich
Curveball -Bob Drogin
The Mess They Made: The Middle East After Iraq, Ignorant Armies : Sliding into War in Iraq -Gwynne Dyer
How Much Money Did You Make On the War, Daddy?: a Quick and Dirty Guide to War,
Profiteering in the Bush Administrations William Hartung
Blowback: The costs and Consequences of American Empire -Chalmers Johnson
Pretext for War : 9/11, Iraq, and the Abuse of America’s Intelligence Agencies James Bamford

On and On the debacle continues in spite of the crap the rutabaga and his minions try and bull shit us with.

[46zilzal]

Australian PM attacks decision to join war in Iraq

By ROD McGUIRK –

CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — Prime Minister Kevin Rudd accused his predecessor of abusing intelligence information to justify entering the Iraq war, saying Monday that the Australian people were misled.

In remarks to parliament on the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, which began Sunday, Rudd said the nation must learn from the errors of former Prime Minister John Howard, who sent 2,000 troops to support U.S. and British forces in the 2003 invasion.

"We must learn from Australia's experience in the lead-up to going to war with Iraq and not repeat the same mistakes in the future," Rudd said.

He criticized Howard's government for going to war without accurate information or a full assessment of the consequences.

"Of most concern to this government was the manner in which the decision to go to war was made: the abuse of intelligence information, a failure to disclose to the Australian people the qualified nature of that intelligence," Rudd said.

Before the invasion, Howard argued that Saddam Hussein had to be toppled to prevent the spread of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism. The weapons were not discovered and no definite links were established between Saddam and al-Qaida or other terror networks.

Rudd said Howard wrongly believed that Australia's close alliance with the United States left him with no choice but to join the campaign in Iraq.

"This government does not believe that our alliance with the United States mandates automatic compliance with every element of the United States' foreign policy," Rudd told Parliament.

[46zilzal]

The international red cross must be making things up too:

Iraqi officials informed the Red Cross that more than half of Iraq's registered doctors have fled the country just as the daily violence has stretched the health-care system to the breaking point, the ICRC's Nada Doumani told CBC News Wednesday in an interview from Jordan.

"Health-care facilities have difficulties to cope with mass casualties when you have a huge influx of wounded people," she said. "The medical staff is shrinking."

Andrew White, the Anglican vicar of Baghdad, said he agrees with the report's findings and wants to see a reduction in violence, as well the restoration of basic services such as water, electricity and food.

"What we see on our television screens does not demonstrate even one per cent of the reality of the atrocity of Iraq today," he told CBC News Wednesday.

"Things are so terrible here."

It is so dangerous for Red Cross workers to move around in Baghdad that it's impossible for the report to recreate a full picture of how bad daily life is, Krahenbuhl said.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/04/11/redcross-iraq-070411.html

[PaceAdvantage]

Since the thread is gyrating, how about we take it in this direction...

I suggest we explore the reasons why a doctor in America would flee to Canada....here's something that popped up on Google when I searched for a reason:


http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3302.html


Whatcha think? Am I warm?

[46zilzal]

Only problem I don't smoke, Never did. A person who has lost two family members to the consequences of tobacco, along with several close friends would hardly poison oneself with that junk.

[PaceAdvantage]

Only problem I don't smoke, Never did. A person who has lost two family members to the consequences of tobacco, along with several close friends would hardly poison oneself with that junk.OK, then I will find another reason. There should be plenty.

Hey man, you opened the door after your personal attacks on JustRalph (how many times you gonna deride his law enforcement experience)?

[JustRalph]

Since the thread is gyrating, how about we take it in this direction...

I suggest we explore the reasons why a doctor in America would flee to Canada....here's something that popped up on Google when I searched for a reason:


http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3302.html


Whatcha think? Am I warm?

That would explain much .............. :lol: :lol:

[46zilzal]

OK, then I will find another reason. There should be plenty.

Hey man, you opened the door after your personal attacks on JustRalph (how many times you gonna deride his law enforcement experience)?
Simple answer: residency at a large university teaching hospital.

If anything I point out his inaccurate assessment of Iraq. It is and has been a bogus lie. If that has anything to do with being a cop (other than the poor guys in Iraq who are not and are asked to do that), that is news to me.

[46zilzal]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/5814922.html
Despite optimistic reports and lower U.S. casualties, the Iraq war continues to take its toll on U.S. soldiers


Last week, the Army reported that in 2007, more U.S. Army soldiers committed suicide than in any previous year since 1980, when the Army began keeping such records. According to other recently released Army data, more U.S. troops died in hostilities in Iraq and Afghanistan last year than in any previous year, and newly diagnosed cases of post-traumatic stress disorder among troops sent to Iraq and Afghanistan soared.

The unprecedented increase in all these factors occurred as the Bush administration committed extra forces to Iraq to try to quell sectarian violence, sent more troops to Afghanistan and extended army tours from 12 months to 15. Experts say longer and more frequent tours of duty contribute to the stresses troops face. As of Aug. 1, tours of duty will revert to 12 months, and the Army has taken steps this year to relieve the strain on troops by including more training in suicide prevention, screening to measure mental health and hiring more mental health professionals.

But the fact remains, like the proverbial elephant in the living room, that American troops are overextended and have been for several years, with no relief in sight, and are paying an extreme penalty. This administration offers no solutions and will leave it to the next to try to sort it all out.

The figures from 2007 do little to illuminate the personal tragedies they enumerate: 115 confirmed suicides, nearly 13 percent more than in 2006; 901 military deaths, up 10 percent from 2006; 4,500 or so new post-traumatic stress disorder cases, up about 46 percent over 2006. Since the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq began, 4,087 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq and more than 30,000 wounded, and more that 500 killed in Afghanistan.

The much-vaunted decline in U.S. deaths in Iraq last month, at 19 the lowest since the invasion began in 2003, is an unreliable milestone. Previous drops have been followed by increases. Just last Sunday the Iraqi government, under pressure from Shiites, including the forces of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, threatened to reject American demands in the negotiation of a long-term security pact that would determine how long American forces stay in Iraq.

[46zilzal]

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/18/bush-iraq-economy/


Doesn't think that wasting billions in a bottomless pit has any thing to do with the sagging economy.

This morning on NBC’s Today Show, President Bush denied that the there’s any link between the faltering U.S. economy and $10 billion a month being spent on the Iraq war. In fact, according to Bush, the war is actually helping the economy:

CURRY: You don’t agree with that? It has nothing do with the economy, the war — spending on the war?

BUSH: I don’t think so. I think actually the spending in the war might help with jobs…because we’re buying equipment, and people are working. I think this economy is down because we built too many houses and the economy’s adjusting.

The Iraq war has created jobs — for the administration’s defense contractor allies. Bush’s most recent budget is a windfall for contractors, and between 2000 and 2005, procurement was the “fastest growing component of federal discretionary spending.” (Halliburton has been the biggest beneficiary of the administration’s generosity.)

Five years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, however, national unemployment is going up. Between December 2006 and December 2007, the national unemployment rate increased by 13.6 percent in seasonally adjusted terms, from 4.4 to 5.0 percent. Additionally, 68 percent of the American public believes that redeployment from Iraq would help fix the country’s economic woes.

Some Americans believe that they feel they’re carrying the burden because of this economy.

G. BUSH: Yeah, well…

CURRY: They say we’re suffering because of this.

G. BUSH: … I don’t agree with that.

CURRY: You don’t agree with that? It has nothing do with the economy, the war — spending on the war?

G. BUSH: I don’t think so.

I think actually the spending in the war might help with jobs.

CURRY: Oh, yeah?

G. BUSH: Yeah, because we’re buying equipment, and people are working.

I think this economy is down because we built too many houses and the economy’s adjusting.

[46zilzal]

June 2nd, 2008
Veterans share their stories, urge an end to the war in Iraq

By Lisa Stiffler / Seattle Post-Intelligencer

One former soldier recounted an interrogation of an Iraqi by his fellow combatants so brutal he likened it to "a frat house gang rape."

Another was still troubled not by his close brushes with death, but by the times he nearly shot innocent Iraqi civilians.

And a third was exasperated and puzzled by being asked to fulfill what he called "ridiculous" orders to harass Iraqi residents and was discouraged to help those in distress. He called the war "immoral and absurd."

All came together Saturday afternoon at Seattle's Town Hall to share their troubling and sometimes graphic war stories in the hopes that they will inspire and motivate a largely silent public to call for an end to the military occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

In a counterpoint to calls to continue the occupation, nearly a dozen U.S. soldiers, a military wife, the mother of a soldier and a doctor treating veterans with psychiatric problems told their anti-war stories to a respectful audience that filled the hall.

[46zilzal]

More from the PI story:
Other veterans told of lax rules of engagement that led to the slaughter of innocent civilians in Iraq.

"We were told we'd be deploying to Iraq and that we needed to get ready to have little kids and women shoot at us," Sergio Kochergin, a former Marine who served two deployments in Iraq, told the audience. "It was an attempt to portray Iraqis as animals. We were supposed to do humanitarian work, but all we did was harass people, drive like crazy on the streets, pretending it was our city and we could do whatever we wanted to do."

As the other veterans on the panel nodded in agreement, Kochergin continued, "We were constantly told everybody there wants to kill you, everybody wants to get you. In the military, we had racism within every rank and it was ridiculous. It seemed like a joke, but that joke turned into destroying peoples' lives in Iraq."

"I was in Husaiba with a sniper platoon right on the Syrian border and we would basically go out on the town and search for people to shoot," Kochergin said. "The rules of engagement (ROE) got more lenient the longer we were there. So if anyone had a bag and a shovel, we were to shoot them. We were allowed to take our shots at anything that looked suspicious. And at that point in time, everything looked suspicious."

[46zilzal]

http://www.ndu.edu/inss/Occasional_Papers/OP5.pdf


"all of which is covered by deficit spending."

[46zilzal]

Not related to the economy says the Rutabaga
http://zfacts.com/p/447.html

[JustRalph]

Oh no!!! American Soldiers are kicking ass in Afghanistan too!!!

The Dems will be trying to take credit for the surge anytime now and Afghanistan will be "their war" soon also...............

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/world/asia/03afghan.html?_r=2&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[lsbets]

Back to the point I made to ddog, 46 is a perfect example of what I was talking about when I said people who have no understanding at all yet think they do, and an example of why I said intelligent discussion about Iraq is probably not going to happen. In his mind he already knows everything and has no interest in letting anyone else hear what might actually be true. I can't believe he was at it all night - :lol: . Personally I can think of much better things to do all night. :jump:

[lsbets]

Another thing obvious from 46s reply is he never got past the first sentence of my original reply to ddog. That's his idea of deep thought - hear a snippet and use it to back up his already formed opinion. If this guy ever really was a doctor (and I have serious doubts about his claims) that is a truly frightening thought for his patients, but it would explain why he spends his days mucking stalls for a living now.

[Tom]

46, try to stay on topic.
Surely if you really try, you could focus.

[46zilzal]

Yes the Iraq experience is just one big happy party and all of the first hand notions from other people who share the horrors of occupation, destruction and civil unrest which continue there, are ALL just making it up since it goes counter to what the administration has been telling the gullible all along.

A fiasco since day one. It continues with more deaths.

[46zilzal]

June. 5, 2007

GENEVA - More than 4 million Iraqis have now been displaced by violence in the country, the U.N. refugee agency said Tuesday, warning that the figure will continue to rise.

The number of Iraqis who have fled the country as refugees has risen to 2.2 million, said Jennifer Pagonis, spokeswoman for the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees. A further 2 million have been driven from their homes but remain within the country, increasingly in “impoverished shanty towns,” she said.

Pagonis said UNHCR is receiving “disturbing reports” of regional authorities doing little to provide displaced people with food, shelter and other basic services.

[46zilzal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/05/AR2007110501930.html

More than 83 percent of those displaced were women and children, and most children were younger than 12, the report found. Most lived in Baghdad. Many lack adequate health services, cannot transfer their children to new schools and cannot find jobs.

The number of internally displaced Iraqis at the end of September represented a 16 percent increase since the end of August, and was more than 40 times higher than March 2006, when sectarian fighting accelerated following the bombing of the Golden Mosque in Sammara, a Shiite shrine, according to the report.

"This attack ignited sectarian and ethnic arms conflict throughout Iraq on a scale never seen before. Thousands of Shiites had fled Sunni areas and vice versa," the report said. "In addition to their plight as being displaced, the majority suffer from disease, poverty and malnutrition."

The power struggle in Iraq has also pitted groups of the same sect against each other. On Monday south of Baghdad in Diwaniyah, for example, police forces tied to the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council, one of the largest Shiite parties in the country, arrested 11 followers of the powerful Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, one of his spokesmen said.

[46zilzal]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/24/africa/24displaced.php

BAGHDAD: The number of Iraqis fleeing their homes has soared since the American troop increase began in February, according to data from two humanitarian groups, accelerating the partition of the country into sectarian enclaves.

Despite some evidence that the troop buildup has improved security in certain areas, sectarian violence continues and American-led operations have brought new fighting, driving fearful Iraqis from their homes at much higher rates than before the tens of thousands of additional troops arrived, the studies show.

The data track what are known as internally displaced Iraqis: those who have been driven from their neighborhoods and seek refuge elsewhere in the country rather than fleeing across the border. The effect of this vast migration is to drain religiously mixed areas in the center of Iraq, sending Shiite refugees toward the overwhelmingly Shiite areas to the south and Sunnis toward majority Sunni regions to the west and north.

Though most displaced Iraqis say they would like to return, there is little prospect of their doing so. One Sunni Arab who had been driven out of the Baghdad neighborhood of southern Dora by Shiite snipers said she doubted that her family would ever return, buildup or no buildup.

[46zilzal]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/post_saddam_iraq/html/1.stm

Electricity generation at best meets half of estimated demand and fell below pre-war levels at the end of 2006.

Most of the country lacks effective sanitation. Iraq's Ministry of Water Resources says only 32% of the population has access to clean drinking water, and only 19% has access to a good sewage system.

Aid agencies say 60% of people in Anbar and Baghdad suburbs use river water.

[lsbets]

Lets see, Ralph posts an article talking about what is happening right in Iraq today and 46 rebuts with articles about what was wrong in 2006 and 2007. Way to be on top of current events 46!

[pktruckdriver]

Is Progress Possible in Iraq ?


I think yes it could be done, maybe?

How would I know, when our troops come home for good.


Has that Happened, not yet , from what I hear that is not even close to Happening, so now what?

Congress has nothing to do with what's going on over there, the troops are to blame or bless , however you see it.


I see it as a waste of time, but I'm entitiled to that opinion, I have that right, I'm an american, but I also pray for our troops everyday, do you?


Well Back to work, .....

[PaceAdvantage]

Back to the point I made to ddog, 46 is a perfect example of what I was talking about when I said people who have no understanding at all yet think they do, and an example of why I said intelligent discussion about Iraq is probably not going to happen. In his mind he already knows everything and has no interest in letting anyone else hear what might actually be true. I can't believe he was at it all night - :lol: . Personally I can think of much better things to do all night. :jump:Couldn't agree with you more. 46 is nothing but a spammer. Another person who thinks who he is...

[xtb]

Another thing obvious from 46s reply is he never got past the first sentence of my original reply to ddog. That's his idea of deep thought - hear a snippet and use it to back up his already formed opinion. If this guy ever really was a doctor (and I have serious doubts about his claims) that is a truly frightening thought for his patients, but it would explain why he spends his days mucking stalls for a living now.

lsbets was right all along, he never was a Medical Doctor but clipped toenails.

http://www.podiatrym.com/letters2.cfm?id=791&start=11977

[cj's dad]

lsbets was right all along, he never was a Medical Doctor but clipped toenails.

http://www.podiatrym.com/letters2.cfm?id=791&start=11977

Another lib exposed - what say you Mostie, ddog, rooks, Goren, Njstinks

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[fast4522]

Now I understand why anything with a pistol grip got him pissed.

[Greyfox]

lsbets was right all along, he never was a Medical Doctor but clipped toenails.

http://www.podiatrym.com/letters2.cfm?id=791&start=11977

46zil has "passed" on, or been "passed on," but not to my knowledge "passed away." It's unfair to kick at someone who can't respond on this board.

If that's his ad, he was a Medical Doctor (Podiatrist) but not a General Practitioner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podiatry

[NJ Stinks]

46zil has "passed" on, or been "passed on," but not to my knowledge "passed away." It's unfair to kick at someone who can't respond on this board.



I agree.

I also wish 46zilzal was still here. I know he laid on the medical stuff a tad too much :) but he is also an interesting guy who has opinions.

Nothing wrong with having opinions around here. :cool:

[JustRalph]

excuse me. But I think a DPM is a damn doctor............

I am no fan of the Zilzal man,, but a DPM is a doctor who just specializes in podiatry medicine.

Just like any other doc who picks a specialty, there is no reason to demean the specialty at all.

[xtb]

If that's his ad, he was a Medical Doctor (Podiatrist) but not a General Practitioner.


Podiatrists are "doctors" (as are chiropractors), but they are not Medical Doctors. They do not attend medical school.

[cj's dad]

excuse me. But I think a DPM is a damn doctor............

I am no fan of the Zilzal man,, but a DPM is a doctor who just specializes in podiatry medicine.

Just like any other doc who picks a specialty, there is no reason to demean the specialty at all.

Ralph, don't you remember how he often came on here and by his various posts insinuated that he was involved in levels of medical care far exceeding that of a Podiatrist ?

He expounded on things from routine medical care to surgeries to abortions.

[Greyfox]

Podiatrists are "doctors" (as are chiropractors), but they are not Medical Doctors. They do not attend medical school.

I beg to differ. They do attend a Medical School of Podiatry. Also, they receive according to Wiki:

United States
In the United States, medical and surgical care of the foot and ankle is mainly provided by two groups of physicians: podiatrists (Doctor of Podiatric Medicine or DPM) and orthopedists (MDs or DOs).

The first year of podiatric medical school is similar to training that either medical doctors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine) or osteopathic doctors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Osteopathy) receive, but with an emphasized scope on foot, ankle, and lower extremity. Being classified as a second entry degree, in order to be considered for admission an applicant must first complete a minimum of 90 semester hours at the university level and/or complete a bachelor's degree. In addition, potential students are required to take the Medical College Admission Test (MCAT). The DPM degree itself takes a minimum of four years to complete.


The four-year podiatric medical school is followed by a residency, which is hands-on post-doctoral training. There are two standard residencies named Podiatric Medicine and Surgery 24 or 36 (PM&S 24 or PM&S 36). These represent the two- or three-year residency training. Podiatric residents rotate through core areas of medicine such as emergency medicine, pediatric medicine and surgery, internal medicine, vascular surgery, general surgery, orthopedic surgery, dermatology and of course podiatry — both clinic and surgical. During these rotations, surgeons and physicians train the resident podiatrists in medicine and surgery of the foot and...




***********************************

At any rate, I personally miss 46Zil's contributions and I think it's unfair to try to knock his qualifications in the absence of his inability to post here.
I can guarantee you that he knows more about medicine than I ever will.
Yes, he like all of us had his faults, but he also made some excellent points.

While I'm saying that, personally I won't put down whatever any man has chosen to do for a legal living. Anyone who helps row the boat responsibly is okay in my mind, independent of their job, career, or profession.

[JustRalph]

Ralph, don't you remember how he often came on here and by his various posts insinuated that he was involved in levels of medical care far exceeding that of a Podiatrist ?

He expounded on things from routine medical care to surgeries to abortions.

I didn't say he wasn't a wingnut...............