Next H'capping Contest

[Suff]

Thinking of Having and INterboard Challenge.. Between me..and PA.. we'd have about 6 or 7 boards

I've got the

espn.com board and DMTC.com board (del-mar thoroughbred Club) I think I'll have two more as well

PA thinks he can get Hottalkers and DRF.com.. I know DRF.com will be there

How many PA people want to participate? If we only have 7 or so Interested then we may be able to accommodate everyone...If we have more.. then we'd need a lil lottery or contest to select out team...

Thinking two 3 or 4 man teams from each Board?

Who's interested... No one has any priority or special Preference... any regular poster on PA is encouraged to get involved and play... So>? who's Interested?

Anyone know any Boards that might wanna take a piece of this action?

[WINMANWIN]

IM game, And ready to rock rumble and roll !!!

GOOD Idea Suff, And tks again for touting me the feature
Winner today at Aqueduct who speed poped the field to complete
a nice exacta for me......Your horse paid $ 40 bucks to WIN AND
Helped to make my day ! :)

[cj]

I would definitely like to participate.

I would think the board at netcapper.com might participate, but I'm not sure. Seem like a decent bunch of cappers.

CJ

[IRISHLADSTABLE]

TELL ME WHERE AND WHEN AND I'LL BE THERE .

JIMMY / ILS

[Suff]

I'm trying to get with PA and especially Jack from DRF to get a handle on the rules and so forth,,,, Those two would know better how best to run this thing. But here's something I got from the Folks at ESPN's board today.


We get one leader(Team Captain) from every board and make him the offical communicator / middle man and make sure he gets the message across to his board...
My idea would be to have a weekly series of contests in which all boards will go head to head with a random board each week untill everyone has played each other once( head to head style).Than after every board has gone around the schedule once we use the results/standings as seeding for our head to head single elimation tournment to decide the champ.Head to head would also make it easier to score as every matchup could score their own match and than report the scores to the group. It would make things alot easier and would also spur on a friendly feud...
Idealy we would get 8 boards as that would make it even.
As for number of participants it depends on how many people are on each boards, I'd say anywhere from 4 to 8 players from each board...
Scoring is open on ESPN we pick 4 races and give everyone 100 bucks a race to spend and place only win/place/show bets but we can change that to tri/exactas , what ever works. But Idealy we would add up all the totals from each team and average them out into a "team/board score. This way one guy with a hot day can't win the thing all by himself. Please keep me updated and lets keep working on getting more boards to join!

These are just some ideas... like to hear more from Jack,... he's tops at running these things.

[Suff]

Pretty sure I Just Picked up a Group of Chicago Horse players to Join and play. They contacted me... they want in. CHicago? !!!!You just know they can Handicap!!! lol


http://www.barntowire.com/RacingForum.html

[crackers@NOLA]

I'm sure I can field a team from the STARTING GATE FORUM on the NOLA>COM site. Just let me know al the details.

[Suff]

Great Crackers,,,,, I just visited your Board... it looks like you have some pretty Sharp Horse players over there...

You guys are From Fairgrounds? Correct?

Maybe you can start a thread and get the oven warming so you'll be ready to go when we get started...

I juts got an E-mail from Australia,,,.. there's aboard there that wants to compete,,, I guess they play USA racing.. so he said? They wanted to know how they'd get thier Picks in with the time Diffrenec and all..... I got to start getting some More Details together so I can answer all the questions I am getting. I think I might be able to get together with PA in the warroom tommorrow and start to put some MEAT on the bones to this thing.

SUFF

[formula_2002]

Suff, I'm game..sounds like fun.

Joe M

[GR1@HTR]

The last couple of years PA has had a 4 week tourney consisting of 6 to 8 players from each board with the final weekend ending w/ the BC races. Maybe PA could do the same thing but with it conculding w/ the Kentucky Derby?

Last yr think we had PA, HTR, hottalkers and DRF?

[Derek2U]

Suff .... I would like to see that NetCapper Room put up a team
of 2-3 peeps who posted ONLY picks from That Capper Program.
It would be like chess champs playing Deep Blue or whatever
that latest version of computer chess is called. It be cool.

[PaceAdvantage]

GR1...that's the format I would like to use. Many of the boards have experienced it before, from the old contests. And, I think it was fair and manageable.....

The more boards and more players involved, the messier this things is going to get....this things might take a week or two to settle....


==PA

[Suff]

Originally posted by GR1
The last couple of years PA has had a 4 week tourney consisting of 6 to 8 players from each board with the final weekend ending w/ the BC races. Maybe PA could do the same thing but with it conculding w/ the Kentucky Derby?

Last yr think we had PA, HTR, hottalkers and DRF?

Ok... Can we do this? Can we start about March 15? That would give us about 6 weeks until Kentuck Derby Day.

That time will Give us and the other boards a chance to put the teams together and so forth. We'll do somthing similiar.

How about this. 1 ...... 5 man team from each Board.
5.........Tracks every saturday
5..........Races per track
2..........Dollars win AND place on top selction.
$'s.......added for wins and places
$'s........Not deducted for loss's
$..........Highest total wins

Tracks,,,,,,, Aqueduct Main?
..................Santa Anita? Keeneland meet somehow?


Ideally.. this is what i'f like to see happen,,, GR1.. You have some rules that you've used in the past? You have a way you'd like to see it run? Then ideally... This is what I'd Prefer.

Gr1...... you come up with the rules,.. dates.. Tracks Etc..

PA.. You Create the Fourm for Posting selctions and totals and General BABBLE about teh contest

I'll get the Boards ? I mean GR and PA .. you two can get the boards you mentioned above correct? Ok then .. This is what I suggest.. PA... Create the Forum.. this week.. GR1.. Go in and POST the rules and Tracks and Parameters.. I'll get the boards workingon putting thier teams together... getting them registered on PA's site and so forth... Over the next 3 or so weeks we''ll get our team together somehow,,, ???

So we're agreed? PA.. Start a Forum and GR1 Post the Rules and so forth by Next weekend..and by March 15th.. all the boards will have had the the time to visit .. register... comment and so forth.......

Just get the Rules and Forum Created and Believe me... I'll Fill it up.

SUFF

[penguinfan]

There is another all-sports board that I can probably get to play along, it's a young board and not too many horse cappers, but the guy who runs the board is SOLID and can probably get a sportsbook to post up a prize if you guys are into stuff like that, somebody PM me if you are interested in me getting them involved.

Penguinfan

[Suff]

Originally posted by penguinfan
There is another all-sports board that I can probably get to play along, it's a young board and not too many horse cappers, but the guy who runs the board is SOLID and can probably get a sportsbook to post up a prize if you guys are into stuff like that, somebody PM me if you are interested in me getting them involved.

Penguinfan

PA's mention Prize's ,,,(Money!) to me a few times,,, Maybe he can get with you on this..

send me the URL for that site please

mdudley.boston@attbi.com

[Suff]

I mean,,, I'm up for anything? But this gent suggests we include One European Jumping race on every saturday?


I got this E-mail today




hello

O.K We are willing to go along with any rules set forth by you but my
guys wanted me to email a list of how they would like the contest to go, and
you can take the points you like and leave the points out that you dislike:
- We'd like there to be a different track for each different person
in a contest to cap, I.E 8 tracks for 8 people.
- We'd also like the track selection to be diverse I.E Santa Anita,
Tampa Bay Downs, Gulfstream,laural . But we would really like atleast one
track to be located in Europe each week so we can include the Jumpers. If
anyone needs info/PP's on a specfic card in Europe , our euro's can send it
to you.
- Also we'd like it to be a weekly head to head that would than go
into a seeding for a tourny. Lets say we have 6 teams, everyone plays each
other once for a total of 6 weeks. Than the teams are seeded into a single
elimation tourny. The top two teams would get first week byes. The toruny
would take 3 weeeks which would make the whole contest a 9 week contest. We
feel this would make things intresting for a while and also take out most of
the luck that would be in only a 4 week contest. Idealy the finally week
would take place Derby week and the whole contest would be leading up to
Derby week.
- While we have tons of people intrested we'd like only one team
from each board to make things easier. We'd also like to change our 8 member
team each week so we could give everyone a chance.
As for scoring, we've run contests with all scoring and it doesn't
matter to us, what ever works for you works for us with scoring. Also we
feel the head to head match ups would make it a whole lot easier to score.
But again we will go with what you feel is fair, we just
wanted to share with you our feelings...
- best regards .

[PaceAdvantage]

Suff,

I like the one track per person idea, as this is the way we have run the inter-board contests in the past....



==PA

[rrbauer]

Give 'em a spot and let the jumpers in! It's like just one segment of the contest ... each track is a segment (parimutuel payoffs for those jumper races are low anyway)

[Suff]

Originally posted by rrbauer
Give 'em a spot and let the jumpers in! It's like just one segment of the contest ... each track is a segment (parimutuel payoffs for those jumper races are low anyway)

Be careful........ we may select you to cap those!!

[Jrdhorse]

Count me in. I like the idea of a little contest if it turns out the there are to many PA members that want to participate. I love the compeition!!!!!!!!!

[Suff]

I have'nt heard from Gr1... Not sure if he has'nt logged on... or just not sure he wants to do it? I'm kinda getting swamped with e-mails that teams that want to play... and people that want to now the rules so they Can share it on thier Board. So I'm going to take the Bulls by the horns here and Lay down the contest rules and parameters.

First Off.... March 15th is a Satuday.. and I like the idea of starting that day and running 7 straight Saturdays until DERBY Day on May 3rd... and on that day all teams will Handicap the Churchill downs card and Hopefully it will be a close contest and it will decided by the Kentucky Derby and/or the Derby Day card.

So that's what we'll do.... So its OFFICIAL... Those are the dates.

March 15th to May 3rd.......

Now... I'm big on Names... and I want to call it

Internet forum World Handicapping Championship

so now thats Officiall as well.,.. thats the name of the Tourney.

Now the tracks....


1........Aqueduct main track Meet

2nd track....... This next one's a Lil tricky one... Because its a two TRACK meet Bundled Package

It will be Gulstream Park From March 15th Until March 29th.. then it will switch to Keeneland from April 4 th to April26th... all those days are Saturdays...

3rd track will be Santa Anita...But theres a lil one week Window at the end of April where they are Dark.. its April 26th... So I propose that this team Do one saturday at Hollwood Park on the 26th.. and then the derby day is the following Weekend

4th Track will be the Maryland circuit.. with the Selections spilt Between Laurel From March 15th to March 29th.. Then Pimlico from April 5th to April 26th.

5th track will be Oaklawn.... I think they run until April 12th.. and that would mean... This team would need to one track for two saturdays until May 3rd..... and I'm not sure what track to use for these two Saturdays... any suggestions?

They'll be no ALTERNATE tracks...If the card cancels... then it just cancels.... it will Be to hard for people to Handicapp two tracks "Just in Case" of a cancel. If a card Cancels Mid-card.. then the races run will count...


Team size... it should be 5 people... Each person on each team Handicaps ONE CARD.. But really it does'nt Matter.. Because if a team wants to have 50 people work on card... whats to prevent that? Nothing really... so Team size is MOOT... But at far as posting selections... that would need to be done by the same USERS name each Saturday... What I will Propose to PA is that he Create ONE main Forum for the conest...and then WITHIN that forum he create 6 additional Sub-Forums... ONE for each Track (circuit) and one for babble and general Bullshiting about the conest... Rule questions... and most importantly The RUNNING totals from week to week.


Now as far as HOW to score,,, If you only count WIN bets... then whats the Difference if you give someone $2.00 or $200.00 a race? If only win bets count then Dollar amount is Moot.

Here is what I am suggesting we do..... each team selects 4 horses per race... Two TOP selections and two alternates...

Now, here's where it gets Competive and tough!!! YOUR FIRST selections wins... You get the win price....If your 2nd selection runs 2nd,,, You get the exacta Price! The 3rd and fourth selctions are STRICTLY alternates in the event of sratches.. they are not in play AT ALL if your top two run... and your top two have to run 1-2.. NOT BOXED... if you select 4-9 and it runs 9-4... You get nothing. If it runs 4-9... you get the win price on the 4 and the exacta price on your 4-9.... TOUGH.. but fair... Boxing sucks,,, I hate boxing. And also,,, I am going to take it one STEP further... Your TOP two selctions ( or alternate in case of scratches) are counted in pik3's 4' and 6's. So if your 2nd selection WINS two races and then in the third race Your 1st selection wins you get that PIK3.. and also with PIK 4's and 6's (and doubles also)
( I think this is a great way to REALLY...allow a handicapper to Handicap)... Not just select the OBVIOUS top contender but to sniff out PRICE horse's that will run 2nd and make you money. I really like this idea,, and I hope I don't get to much objection to it.

Example.... You select

r1.....3-2
r2.....11-1
r3.....8-7

And thay run

r1...3
r2...11
r3...7

You would get the $2.00 PIK3...

I KNOW WHAT YOUR THINKING!!!

Now you would think? who's Going to Do all that work? well EACH TEAM WILL DO ITS OWN scoring and submit thier Totals to PA for posting... With 5 teams and 25 or more players... Any mistakes will be picked up on... I KNOW each team and every player will Be following it's Oppoents selections.... I know I will.. I will very aware of what my opponent has selected...

So its simple,, each team does its own totals and submits BY PUBLIC post under the race cards they played. Easy!!

Now.. I have gotten... suggestions that we do a round robin for a couple of weeks and then SEED the teams.. and then play 1st seed plays 10th seed and 2nd seed plays 9th seed and so forth.. But as much as I like that Idea,... Takes to much time, and to much work..

We"ll just play this way.

Each Team submits Thier PICKS for each track and we'll add all THE TOTALS. TEAM with the HIGHEST Total wins.

So Basically it breaks down to this..... On March 15th 5 players from PA will get One of the above tracks... He will handicapp the card and post his selections in the Forum for that track. At the end of the day.. he or the team captain will do the totals and post them Under his selections... simple... to me anyway.

and each Team will do the IDENTICAL thing.


Ok.. thats the contest.. thats the name.. the dates and thats the rules.. and unless someone stops me or suggests something else.. that's what we are going with.

[PaceAdvantage]

Here's the way we ran contest in the past. I like this format....what does everyone else think???

a) This contest will occur once per week (Saturday), and it should last no longer than 4 weeks, however, this is open to debate. When we've run the inter-board challenge in the past, it was always held 4-5 weeks before the Breeders' Cup, with the Breeders' Cup being the last day of the contest. This time around, perhaps we can make the Kentucky Derby the last day of the contest??? Therefore, the contest really shouldn't start until the first week of April (this will also avoid most of the cancellations we've been seeing this winter) This will also give boards time to field teams, and give me some time to round up some prizes (this isn't guaranteed though)

b) Each board will field a team consisting of EIGHT (8) players. How you determine these 8 is up to each board. They don't have to be the same 8 players every week of the contest, but you are limited to a maximum of eight.

c) At the start of the contest, a list of 8 tracks will be decided upon. These 8 tracks will remain consistent throughout the contest, and will be representative of racing throughout the country. If a particular track isn't racing on a particular Saturday (a cancellation perhaps) a substitution will be made with a track closest in first post time to the cancelled track, geography and class, etc.

d) Each week, each team member from each team will either be assigned a track, or volunteer to take a track from the 8 track list. Once a team member knows which track he or she will be handicapping that week, it is up to that member to PICK ANY 5 races from his or her assigned track, and submit WIN ONLY selections (plus two alternates for each race in case of late scratches) for those five races.

e) ALL PICKS MUST BE SUBMITTED BY 12:00 NOON EASTERN TIME, except for any tracks that run at NIGHT (if there are any). I know the noon cutoff tends to favor the east coast tracks, but we have to draw the line somewhere, especially if we have a lot of teams and players

f) Picks are to be posted on the board from which they originate, in a CLEARLY DEFINED CONTEST SECTION. I will be gathering all the selections and printing them out, so you must be sure I can find them easily.

g) The team with the BEST ROI at the end of the 4 week contest will be the winner, but I will also track win %

h) If on any particular week, you can't field a team of 8 players, then it is permissible for one or more people to double up on the number of tracks they have to handicap.

i) I will be posting the standings and each week's results on the HOME PAGE of PaceAdvantage.Com


That's it so far. I will probably be revising this in the days to come, as the ideas come pouring in.....


What do you think???


==PA

[Suff]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Here's the way we ran contest in the past. I like this format....what does everyone else think???

Well I assume... that you don't like anything about mine because your is completely different than mine...... I've been asking for a few days on the who what and how and where and I could'nt get anyone to fess up... only figures that after I spend an hour putting something together.. That I get what I orginally asked for,, But just the same...

a) This contest will occur once per week (Saturday), and it should last no longer than 4 weeks, however, this is open to debate. When we've run the inter-board challenge in the past, it was always held 4-5 weeks before the Breeders' Cup, with the Breeders' Cup being the last day of the contest. This time around, perhaps we can make the Kentucky Derby the last day of the contest??? Therefore, the contest really shouldn't start until the first week of April (this will also avoid most of the cancellations we've been seeing this winter) This will also give boards time to field teams, and give me some time to round up some prizes (this isn't guaranteed though)

Teams are ready? Jack posted two days ago On DRF... I have four boards ready...

b) Each board will field a team consisting of EIGHT (8) players. How you determine these 8 is up to each board. They don't have to be the same 8 players every week of the contest, but you are limited to a maximum of eight.

If a board has 25 people work on a card ... how's that regulated?
8 posters is what you mean right?... can't regulate Team size.. any board can have the whole BOARD work on a card.. then have 8 people post them.....?

c) At the start of the contest, a list of 8 tracks will be decided upon. These 8 tracks will remain consistent throughout the contest, and will be representative of racing throughout the country. If a particular track isn't racing on a particular Saturday (a cancellation perhaps) a substitution will be made with a track closest in first post time to the cancelled track, geography and class, etc.

Check the racing Meet scedules... With winter meets ending and Spring meet starting... thats going to be tough... Santa Anita does'nt run all april... either does Gulf.. Oaklawn..Or a few others...

d) Each week, each team member from each team will either be assigned a track, or volunteer to take a track from the 8 track list. Once a team member knows which track he or she will be handicapping that week, it is up to that member to PICK ANY 5 races from his or her assigned track, and submit WIN ONLY selections (plus two alternates for each race in case of late scratches) for those five races.

Not sure why you want only 5... and I see a situation where somone picks races 6,7,8,9 and the card is rained out after the 3rd race and he only selected the first? It happened today at NY



e) ALL PICKS MUST BE SUBMITTED BY 12:00 NOON EASTERN TIME, except for any tracks that run at NIGHT (if there are any). I know the noon cutoff tends to favor the east coast tracks, but we have to draw the line somewhere, especially if we have a lot of teams and players

as long as there in by Post time of first race... not sure why 12 noon EST time

f) Picks are to be posted on the board from which they originate, in a CLEARLY DEFINED CONTEST SECTION. I will be gathering all the selections and printing them out, so you must be sure I can find them easily.


This is imposible PA,,, Boards Like ESPN.. and DMTC and i would think most boards cannot create special selction forums.. they don't have server access and ESPN isn't going to create a Forum for them and from the one's I've visited...Many just have ONE forum.. any selections You''d look for would be mix's and Mingled with every other post.

g) The team with the BEST ROI at the end of the 4 week contest will be the winner, but I will also track win %


ROI? It's a $2.00 win bet right? I personnally think thats Boring.. I like my idea of making exotics part of the contest,,, because they are a HUGE part of handicapping and an even bigger part of Making Money. Does anyone go the track and bet $2.00 win on 5 races? or any amount? [/B]

h) If on any particular week, you can't field a team of 8 players, then it is permissible for one or more people to double up on the number of tracks they have to handicap.

i) I will be posting the standings and each week's results on the HOME PAGE of PaceAdvantage.Com


That's it so far. I will probably be revising this in the days to come, as the ideas come pouring in.....


What do you think???

I have been in and am in a bunch of $2.00 win bet handicapping conests... They're abundant and Boring... I wanted to do something different and adventurous.. and creative.. that allowed for a Lil Handicapping.... A contest like this,,,, someone opens the card... Breezes through it and off the Morning lines makes 5 selections... Most under 3-1 and from 5 races he'll have $10.00 wagered and $18.00 bucks in winnings and thats JUST VANILLA and boring to me


==PA [/B]

[NYRAcapper]

After looking closely at both contest proposals, I am more in favor of Sufferins contest. It may be a bit more work to keep track of but I think we are all willing to help out as much as possible. Also I would much rather see the FULL card handicapped as opposed to just 5 races.
Sufferins idea of using exotics also seems like the better way to go to me as there are very few of us still playing to win only.
Also 5 player teams and 5 tracks seems much more logical for this time of year, if it were summer then maybe 8 but right now I don't know that 8 tracks is do able. If there are more people than 8 interested what's to prevent a board from having more than one team?
I realize PA's point here is that ultimately all the responsibility for keeping track of this thing may fall on him, but I'm sure the group of guys we have here is more than willing to do their fair share of the work.
That being said LETS GET IT ON.........................

[justin]

"Your TOP two selctions ( or alternate in case of scratches) are counted in pik3's 4' and 6's. So if your 2nd selection WINS two races and then in the third race Your 1st selection wins you get that PIK3..."

I think the exacta suggestion is a good one because it wouldn't be that hard to track...on the other hand, including P3s and P4s waters down the choice of selecting which races to play. What if the races I want to play are 1,3,5,7, and 9? Just an example, but maybe you can see where I'm coming from? What about tracks with pitiful P3/P4 pools? I don't think including multiple-race wagers is a good idea for this contest, but as always, that's just my humble opinion. Thanks for putting so much thought into this, it should be a lot of fun.

-Justin

[NYRAcapper]

I think the exacta suggestion is a good one because it wouldn't be that hard to track...on the other hand, including P3s and P4s waters down the choice of selecting which races to play. What if the races I want to play are 1,3,5,7, and 9? Just an example, but maybe you can see where I'm coming from? What about tracks with pitiful P3/P4 pools? I don't think including multiple-race wagers is a good idea for this contest, but as always, that's just my humble opinion. Thanks for putting so much thought into this, it should be a lot of fun.


Thus the rational for handicapping the ENTIRE card rather than just 5 races:D

[Jrdhorse]

Suff have you figured out who the PA team menbers will be yet???

[superfecta]

Maybe the Saturday Before the start of the big Internet contest?Every member who wants a spot make picks on that days card and the top five get their spots?
Oh and the team name would be team Baravot.......

[John]

Yo Guys,
I read most of the post and I got to honestly
feel that Sufferins ideas are the way to go. I have been in a few $2.00 win bet contest. Not only are they boring,also if someone picks a horse off the wall that pays $32.00 the rest of us are dead fish in the water.You need 4 races to win at an average payoff of $8.00 just to catch up.Now with exotic betting if I catch a $28.00 exacta I am still in the ball park and maybe the guy that had that $30.00 horse did not have the second place in the exacta .So he gets nothing.I'm still in it. You get the picture.

all though, Sufferins and I live in the same state. I have never met him.I just like the way he thinks.

Rocajack

[Suff]

Originally posted by rocajack
Yo Guys,
I read most of the post and I got to honestly
feel that Sufferins ideas are the way to go. I have been in a few $2.00 win bet contest. Not only are they boring,also if someone picks a horse off the wall that pays $32.00 the rest of us are dead fish in the water.You need 4 races to win at an average payoff of $8.00 just to catch up.Now with exotic betting if I catch a $28.00 exacta I am still in the ball park and maybe the guy that had that $30.00 horse did not have the second place in the exacta .So he gets nothing.I'm still in it. You get the picture.

all though, Sufferins and I live in the same state. I have never met him.I just like the way he thinks.

Rocajack

Yup Roca,,, you catch what I was trying to get done,,, Not without a Little hoot-n-nanny...But... I think we got it done today. Towards the weekend it should start to take some life on the Board and we're looking at March 15th for tentative start date

Thanks.. for your vote of confidence that we can pull this OFF!!...I hope you get a chance to compete for a spot...and play along.. it should be fun,,,,