The first Gulf War? Who do you believe?-Long post

[hcap]

Excerpts from
How the public relations industry sold the
Gulf War to the U.S. --
The mother of all clients
Part Two
By John Stauber and Sheldon Rampton

Note- Hill & Knowlton --a PR company

SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN

Every big media event needs what journalist and flacks alike refer
to as "the hook." An ideal hook becomes the central element of a
story that makes it newsworthy, evokes a strong emotional response,
and sticks in the memory. In the case of the Gulf War, the "hook"
was invented by Hill & Knowlton. In style, substance and mode of
delivery, it bore an uncanny resemblance to England's World War I
hearings that accused German soldiers of killing babies.
On October 10, 1990, the Congressional Human Rights Caucus
held a hearing on Capitol Hill which provided the first opportunity
for formal presentations of Iraqi human rights violations.

In fact, the most emotionally moving testimony on October 10
came from a 15-year-old Kuwaiti girl, known only by her first name
of Nayirah. According to the Caucus, Nayirah's full name was being
kept confidential to prevent Iraqi reprisals against her family in
occupied Kuwait. Sobbing, she described what she had seen with her
own eyes in a hospital in Kuwait City. Her written testimony was
passed out in a media kit prepared by Citizens for a Free Kuwait.
"I volunteered at the al-Addan hospital," Nayirah said. "While I
was there, I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital with
guns, and go into the room where . . . babies were in incubators.
They took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators,
and left the babies on the cold floor to die."
Three months passed between Nayirah's testimony and the start
of the war. During those months, the story of the babies torn from
their incubators was repeated over and over again. President Bush
told the story. It was recited as fact in Congressional testimony,
on TV and radio talk shows, and at the UN Security Council. "Of
all the accusations made against the dictator,
"none had more impact on American public opinion than the one about
Iraqi soldiers removing 312 babies for their incubators and leaving
them to die on the cold hospital floors of Kuwait City."
At the Human Rights Caucus, however, Hill & Knowlton and
Congressman Lantos had failed to reveal that Nayirah was a member
of the Kuwaiti Royal Family. Her father, in fact, was Saud Nasir
al-Sabah, Kuwait's Ambassador to the U.S., who sat listening in the
hearing room during her testimony. The Caucus also failed to
reveal that H&K vice-president Lauri Fitz-Pegado had coached
Nayirah in what even the Kuwaitis' own investigators later
confirmed was false testimony.
If Nayirah's outrageous lie had been exposed at the time it
was told, it might have at least caused some in Congress and the
news media to soberly reevaluate the extent to which they were
being skillfully manipulated to support military action. Public
opinion was deeply divided on Bush's Gulf policy. As late as
December 1990, a New York Times/CBS News poll indicated that 48
percent of the American people wanted Bush to wait before taking
any action if Iraq failed to withdraw from Kuwait by Bush's January
15 deadline.8 On January 12, the US Senate voted by a narrow,
five-vote margin to support the Bush administration in a
declaration of war. Given the narrowness of the vote, the babies-
thrown-from-incubators story may have turned the tide in Bush's
favor.

"To see what is in front of one's nose requires a constant struggle."
--George Orwell

[cj]

What difference does it make what a 15 yo girl said? Iraq INVADED Kuwait, and they were not leaving without outside action forcing them out. The war had NOTHING to do with babies being ripped from incubators, true or not.

CJ

[Doug]

HCAP

You seem to think the Republicans are they only ones to use the "hook"and the Libs are as pure as the driven snow.

If you think the congress was swayed by what a 15 year old Kuwaiti girl said why don't you listen to George Orwell?

"To see what is in front of one's nose requires a constant struggle."
--George Orwell


You seem to struggle to find what is not in front of your nose.

The Iraq regime invaded Kuwait period! What part of that don't you understand?

Everything you say is politically motivated because you are anti-conservative. Most likely anti-american. You are also a dope for trying to persuade others that what a 15 year old girl could have made a difference whether we had a war with Iraq or not.

You radical libs seem to think you have the" gift" or of superior intelligence. Son, if you think this BS about a 15 year old girl shows that, you are sadly mistaken.

Doug

[hcap]

CJ

Do I think the war was only about incubators, no.
Will I ever know for sure, that is the problem.

I know you guys on the right will have a fit if I mention Noam Chomsky-but here goes. He co-authored abook called
"The Manufacture of Consent"
It deals with issues just like the incubator story. The PR and advertising industry have migrated into the public policy arena, making determing the truth that much more dificult.

From Chomsky

"Another member of the Creel Commission was Walter Lippmann, the most respected figure in American journalism for about half a century (I mean serious American journalism, serious think pieces). He also wrote what are called progressive essays on democracy, regarded as progressive back in the 1920s. He was, again, applying the lessons of the work on propaganda very explicitly. He says there is a new art in democracy called manufacture of consent. That is his phrase. Edward Herman and I borrowed it for our book, but it comes from Lippmann. So, he (Lippman) says, there is this new art in the method of democracy, "manufacture of consent." By manufacturing consent, you can overcome the fact that formally a lot of people have the right to vote. We can make it irrelevant because we can manufacture consent and make sure that their choices and attitudes will be structured in such a way that they will always do what we tell them, even if they have a formal way to participate.

Doug

I don't think it is only the repubs the dems are guilty of using the same tactics. The problem as I see it now is that we are on the verge of war. A republican happens to be in office.
Wouldn't you be interested in whether or not the facts you base your responses on are more correct than wrong? Can't you accept that maybe not everything you read comes from the almighty?
I don't understand your anger Doug.
As you told me in a previous response-
"Perhaps a little clarity of mind would help you. TRY EXLAX."


Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
--Benjamin Franklin



"

[Lefty]

Don't believe everything you read. Sadaam invaded Kuwaite and we drove him out. Simple as that.
People have written books about how there was no Holocaust and i've ran into a few people who believe them.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by hcap
CJ Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
--Benjamin Franklin "

Funny he uses a quote about a well armed lamb, but I bet he is for gun control........

:cool:

[Doug]

HCAP WROTE,

Doug

I don't think it is only the repubs the dems are guilty of using the same tactics. The problem as I see it now is that we are on the verge of war. A republican happens to be in office.
Wouldn't you be interested in whether or not the facts you base your responses on are more correct than wrong? Can't you accept that maybe not everything you read comes from the almighty?
I don't understand your anger Doug.
As you told me in a previous response-
"Perhaps a little clarity of mind would help you. TRY EXLAX."

My anger is directed at people like you for the way you say things, not so much what you say. I feel everyone has the right to express their opinions and have rights. The problem is, the way I see it, yours and a few others on this board are polictically motivated and are full of inuendos, name calling, and snide remarks. 12 years we have been f**cking around with Saddam, 12 years of diplomacy. Now the chant is "exhaust all diplomatic efforts". Diplomatic efforts can go on foreever, at some point there needs to be action. Example : Iam walking down the street along with many others. Two jerks are lying in the middle of the sidewalk and obstructing our paths. We try to diplomatic and explain the facts to them. They insist they have a right to lay on the sidewalk. We will not convince them and they will not convince us. Now we (the group) can either walk into the street and around them or kick their ass's off the sidewalk. I prefer to kick their ass's off the sidewalk and make them think twice before they do it again.
Its ok for you and others stand aside when it comes to supporting the President, but don't get in the way of others. I would wager that the President and his advisors have way more information on this subject than you or the whole group of libs together. So they might have an agenda for themselves, so what. Maybe that agenda would be beneficial to us all. I would lean more in that direction as to being harmfull to us. What do you think, these guys are maniacs? One of you nuts more or less claimed that Bush was the next Hitler.

The exlax remark was mine. Get your own.

Doug

[hcap]

A well armed Lamb?

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
--Benjamin Franklin

Let James Madison co-author of the United States Constitution elaborate.

“A popular government without popular information or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy or perhaps both.
“Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives.”

The arms a lamb (sheep?) needs first is information.
Be very sure of your facts before
making a case for war.


William Randolph Hearst
Hearst was the owner of a chain of grossly dishonest, jingoistic newspapers. In 1898 he sent the famous artist Frederic Remington to Cuba to provide American newspaper readers with sketches of the Cuban insurrection against Spanish rule. When Remington arrived he found no insurrection happening. He wired Hearst, saying: “Everything quiet. No trouble here. There will be no war.” Hearst wired back the notorious reply
“You furnish the pictures and I will furnish the war.”

[Lefty]

You quote James Madison and Benjamin Franklin. Weren't they involved in some sort of dustup against the King of England?
I seem to remember something...
These men were not afraid to fight to establish this country we should not be afraid to fight to keep it free from terrorists like Sadaam and Bin Laden.
If we sit back and do nothing anfd they strike again, will you then blame Geo. W?
Damn right you will, just watch the Dems in Congress and the Hollywood left go to work on him and many like you will follow.

[hcap]

Lefty

The King of England was our unjust governor. The American revolution was a wholy just rebelion against our controllers.
Sadaam is no doubt a tyrant, but many of us believe the powers that be are limiting our choices by going to war.
Control, whether by taxation or by being forced into a war, is also unjust.

I am not against removing Sadaam and freeing Iraq, but I and as many others feel, this administration is ignoring other alternatives.

Attacking Iraq is only a quick and temporary fix.
In the long term, those Isalmic children, who possibly would have grown to admire us and what we stand for, will be told a terrorists' tale of the "great satan" invading Iraq.

We can't kill and invade those children, they haven't enlisted. Of course we can indefinately pre- empt, but not without
paying a huge price.

I will add one more thing that makes me wonder. It never really made it to the mainstream media.


UNITED NATIONS, Feb. 21 -- American oil refineries have dramatically increased their reliance on Iraqi crude, even as the Bush administration steps up preparations for a military attack against Baghdad, to offset a shortfall in oil imports caused by a recent political crisis in Venezuela.

The money goes to Iraq under the United Nations-supervised Iraqi oil-for-food deal. So I suppose it is not totally out of whack.

But did this story make it to FOX??

[Lefty]

You say we need other choices other than go to war. Yes, let's sit and wait until he strikes and then we'll just blame Bush for not going ahead.
Seems to me if you free a people they will admire you; if not, then they never were going to admire you.
I don't know what it is about the point that by striking now we save millions of lives down the road; theirs and ours. You just don't want to understand that point but cry about the poor children of Iraq. Well, if you gave a damn about them you'd want them to be free.

[Doug]

HCAP WROTE,

UNITED NATIONS, Feb. 21 -- American oil refineries have dramatically increased their reliance on Iraqi crude, even as the Bush administration steps up preparations for a military attack against Baghdad, to offset a shortfall in oil imports caused by a recent political crisis in Venezuela.

The money goes to Iraq under the United Nations-supervised Iraqi oil-for-food deal. So I suppose it is not totally out of whack.

But did this story make it to FOX??


I am interested where you read this article.

Am also interested in what FOX has to do with it.

Doug

[Lefty]

Hcap writes the article says the money goes to Iraq in the oil for food deal supervised by the U.N. Yes, and the money is being used for other purposes, the people of Iraq are hungry. If the U.N. can't properly supervise this deal then what do we need them for and why do we need their blessing to free the people of Iraq?
We don't. So why don't you and the bulk of the Demo party and the Hollywood left want Iraq to be free of Sadaam.
Answer: They're afraid Pres. Bush will suceed. Simple as that.

[hcap]

Doug
You wrote

"I am interested where you read this article.
Am also interested in what FOX has to do with it."

Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A44801-2003Feb21.html

"U.S. Oil Firms Boost Use of Iraqi Crude Oil
Venezuelan Strike Fueled Increase, Analysts Say"
By Colum Lynch
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 22, 2003

Excerpts from this article

UNITED NATIONS, Feb. 21 -- American oil refineries have dramatically increased their reliance on Iraqi crude, even as the Bush administration steps up preparations for a military attack against Baghdad, to offset a shortfall in oil imports caused by a recent political crisis in Venezuela.

"The United States has more than doubled its consumption of Iraqi crude over the past two months, buying more than $1.6 billion in Iraqi oil through foreign middlemen between Dec. 5 and Feb. 1, according to unpublished U.N. figures. The U.S. Department of Energy, whose Iraqi import figures typically lag behind -- by about 40 days -- those of the United Nations, also recorded a sudden surge of Iraqi oil imports into the United States last week to more than 1 million barrels a day, according to U.S. officials."

"Iraqi exports to the U.S. market, which includes the Caribbean, averaged nearly 500,000 barrels a day during the first 11 months of 2002. U.S. firms purchased only 39 percent of Iraqi oil exports during the second half of last year. Between Dec. 5 and Feb. 1, U.S. buyers consumed about 1.1 million barrels per day, accounting for 62 percent of Iraq's exports during that period, according to U.N. figures. "

" Although Iraq rarely sells oil directly to American oil companies, Exxon Mobil Corp., ChevronTexaco Corp., Valero Energy Corp. and other U.S. firms have purchased more than half of Iraq's oil through foreign middlemen since the oil-for-food program came into existence. Spokesmen for Exxon Mobil and Valero could not be reached for comment"

My question in my last post was if FOX TV carried it ?!!!!

Doug don't you begin to wonder whether or not we have all the facts about what's going on?, or at least if we should be a bit skeptical??-or if a full war is justified??

Lefty
You wrote
"So why don't you and the bulk of the Demo party and the Hollywood left want Iraq to be free of Sadaam.
Answer: They're afraid Pres. Bush will suceed. Simple as that."

Rant 1c

[Lefty]

Calling my points of truth rants is right out of the demo leftists playbook.
If you can't answer it call it a name.
I'm resting my case. Reread my posts as needed. You need them, badly.

[Doug]

HCAP,

Seems like you purposefully left out a few excerpts that explain why this MAY have happened. Also that this was a preliminary report.

For someone who likes facts and knowledge you sure seem to jump the gun when it comes to something that you interpret to be some sinister motives on the part of oil companies and/or the Bush admisistration.

WE NEED OIL!

If it is not available from one source then we have to find other sources. Did you happen to notice in the article that when Saddam put surcharges on the oil the Oil companies backed off the purchases. The oil we purchase from Iraq is done through the UN oil for food program. The surcharges go to Saddam for Palaces and WMD.

Doug

[hcap]

Doug

I posted the url so anyone could read the article

Preliminary? Yes for exact figs, but enough to indicate a substantial increase.
Notice the statement
"a doubling over the averages we have seen over the last several weeks."

"We did have a large increase in Iraqi imports, but we don't know if that is sustained," said Doug MacIntyre, an international energy analyst at the Department of Energy who produces an unpublished weekly report on oil imports. MacIntyre declined to provide specific figures, citing concerns that the underlying data was too preliminary, but he said it was "a doubling over the averages we have seen over the last several weeks."


"The trend marks a significant reversal by U.S. oil companies, which drastically cut their dependence on Iraqi oil last summer because of rising illicit Iraqi surcharges and concerns that the Bush administration was preparing for a war."
"Some American oil giants, hit with rising surcharges and facing criticism that they may have indirectly paid illegal kickbacks to President Saddam Hussein, began scaling back their imports of Iraqi crude last summer. U.N. officials claimed that Iraq was imposing surcharges of 20 to 50 cents on each barrel last year, amounting to hundreds of millions of dollars in illicit profits for the Iraqi regime."

Doug notice "facing criticism that they may have indirectly paid illegal kickbacks to President Saddam and paying 20 to 50 cents more.
Morality or pressure and economics?


"But oil analysts say that Iraq's decision to stop demanding a surcharge in September, and a sudden stoppage of Venezuelan exports following a national strike, has renewed American interest in the Iraqi oil market. "The loss of Venezuelan oil complicated everybody's life," said Lawrence J. Goldstein, president of the New York-based Petroleum Industry Research Foundation. "Iraqi oil is close to the Venezuelan type oil, and it turned out to be the only large-volume alternative available" over the past two months."

Now it seems (article dated Feb. 21) they are not paying the surcharge, saving money and avoiding criticism

Main point is the first paragraph:
"UNITED NATIONS, Feb. 21 -- American oil refineries have dramatically increased their reliance on Iraqi crude, even as the Bush administration steps up preparations for a military attack against Baghdad, to offset a shortfall in oil imports caused by a recent political crisis in Venezuela."

My question in my last post was if FOX TV carried any of it ?!!!!
And my question to you guys on the right is, doesn't it make you wonder??

Yeah we are running out of oil. WE may need to control all oil reserves throughout the world.

Man the torpedos!!

“Until you know who has lent what to whom, you know nothing whatever of politics, you know nothing whatever of history, you know nothing of international wrangles.”
— Ezra Pound
Expatriate American poet, writer
1885-1972

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”
Abraham Lincoln
1865

I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”
— Thomas Jefferson
1812

"Don’t follow leaders
Watch the parkin’ meters." Bob Dylan

"History is fables agreed upon." Voltaire

Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
--Buddha

[cj]

Ever have any original thoughts? All these quotes and pasted articles get old. If I want to see them, I know where to look.

CJ

[hcap]

Sorry guys I give up.
I thought I presented a case for reasonable doubt.
I will leave political posting to the more original minds on this board.

But wait just a minute although I may not have said anything original, and I admit
the founders of the constitution, great writers and even The Buddha get old quick, let me leave you with one truly original well thought out thought.

"I first of all, there's a lot of brains in this room. And you get to decide whether there's a brain drain in Russia. I tell Vladimir all the time -- I mean, Mr. President all the time -- that Russia's most precious resource is the brain power of this country. And you've got a lot of it. It's going to take a lot of brains in Russia to create a drain." -- George W. Bush, St. Petersburg University, St. Petersburg, Russia, May 25, 2002

Hcap

[Lefty]

Hcap, been fun, you're a hoot.
Bet: When this war is over the U.S. will not control the oil fields of Iraq. Iraq will under, hopefully, a democratic regime.
This country has always rebuilt and gave back every country we've beaten in war yet to hear you liberals you'd think we were the most oppresive country in the world.
Here's a quote for ya by Geo. Gray: "You are the weakest link...goodbye.

[Tom]

"The tribe has spoken. It's time for you to go."

-Jeff Probst, every week on Survivor <G>