Gas prices

[Tom]

$401 yesterday, $4.09 today.
Looking a Hyundais after work today!
The increase in milage alone is going to pay for the danged thing!:jump:

To be fair, I looked at Ford and GM on the net and found not one car remotely appealling. Prices higher, gas mileage lower, but lots of nice pretty colors inside!:bang:

Anyone driving a Hyundai? or Toyoya?

[Bubbles]

My best friend drives a 2006 Hyundai and loves it.

[bobbyb]

I'm look'in @ an Amish Heated Wagon and a cheap Standardbred......small Town just a few miles from me has just finished installing Hitching posts - no sh*t.. :D

bobby

[Tom]

Cool. I can dock my Amish laptop in it! :lol::lol:

[Steve 'StatMan']

Cool. I can dock my Amish laptop in it! :lol::lol:

You can dock with your Amish Wife in it, as long as the Elders don't find out. :D

[JustRalph]

Tom

don't forget to look at Honda's............... the wife's Accord is getting 26 in the city and 34+ on the highway.........and that is better than the sticker said it would.

[OTM Al]

I got one of those smaller Hyundais as a rental last summer. No frills but great mileage. Had no problems with it. Kind of car I would buy if I needed one. Ought to be the standard rather than those silly SUVS which are no more than station wagons any more if you really think about it. Of course old chevy station wagons probably still get better mileage than those monsters do.....

[so.cal.fan]

Honda Civic's are a good choice.
I drive an Accord, but will be getting a civic. I understand the deluxe models come with leather seats and all the other extras.
I've been told if your new car doesn't come equiped with a GPS system....don't get one from the dealer.....go to Best Buy or somewhere and get one put in for a few hundred dollars, because the factory models will cost a fortune if they go bad on you. Your own can be taken out if you sell the car.

[Tom]

Thanks for the replies. I'm off to test drive a couple of Accents. The hatchback looks interesting.

I used to go to the Hyundai plant in Bromont, Quebec back around 1989-90.
Their cars were pretty low quality, but they had the right mindset and animpressive quality culture and system in place. I was sure they would someday become a force in themarket. I went there on a quality problem once, and the plant manager of the entire facility took part in the problem solving, dressed in the same coveralls as everyone else. He never once dominated it and pretty much acted like he was a line worker. I didn't find out until late in the day who he was. Nothing at all like a GM plant.

Honda tomorrow, next lot down.

[ddog]

have two buds who both purchased new Nissan Altima since the first of the year.
They both love them.
Not sure of the mileage , I didn't ask them, assume in the mid 20?



I have not had any Nissan for several years , had a 300zx turbo and then a pathfinder for 3-4 years with no problems.

[JustRalph]

I got one of those smaller Hyundais as a rental last summer. No frills but great mileage. Had no problems with it. Kind of car I would buy if I needed one. Ought to be the standard rather than those silly SUVS which are no more than station wagons any more if you really think about it. Of course old chevy station wagons probably still get better mileage than those monsters do.....

Al, you kill me sometimes. What the hell have you got against SUV's???? :lol:

I spent last week hauling stuff back and forth to the racetrack in my Tahoe(Charlotte Nascar) for personal and professional reasons and we love it. The damn things hauls more than my F-150 did and if you have to haul a trailer, which I did, it's great. Some of us love our SUV's..........

[Dave Schwartz]

Funny thing... Just the other day we made some travel reservations, including car and hotel.

The funniest thing was seeing that the bigger, premium cars would all reduce our cost. I am used to seeing things like "luxury: add $78 per day." Instead it said, "Luxury -$17."

I guess the standard rental was a Chevy Aveo - and everything else was cheaper. A Dodge Charger was $-9.50 per day!

Dave

[wonatthewire1]

Accent is pretty small - might want to look at an Elantra while you are there

Toyotas are nice - the 2009 Corolla just came out, stay away from the Yaris, not so great crash results (only Toyo that Consumer's won't recommend)

Ford Focus is a nice car, but they discontinued the hatch

Since I live in the state with a lot of refineries - gas is $3.79 here as of this morning (Sunoco and Lukoil's prices)

[ddog]

Al, you kill me sometimes. What the hell have you got against SUV's???? :lol:

I spent last week hauling stuff back and forth to the racetrack in my Tahoe(Charlotte Nascar) for personal and professional reasons and we love it. The damn things hauls more than my F-150 did and if you have to haul a trailer, which I did, it's great. Some of us love our SUV's..........

they have their place for sure.
At least up to 10.00 a gallon, you can tow your house along with you if it comes to that.
:lol:

:ThmbUp:

[OTM Al]

If you buy an SUV for work because that is the kind of vehicle that is needed I have no problem, but please explain the other 95% of SUV sales in this country. All I need say is BMW SUV, Lexus SUV, Cadillac SUV......

[HUSKER55]

We went to Myrtle Beach a while back and we took an upgrade to one of the Hyundi luxury cars and it was really nice. Mileage surprised us. 28 MPG.

Also i watched the news tonite an in Isreal they are pushing electric cars that go 120 miles at (50 MPH ??) that are made by Nissan and they are trying to get them into the US. (MSNBC)

Analyze your driving habits real good. At the price of gas it wouldn't take too much to justify a wind generator of your own if the range fit your demands.


husker55

:)

[Tom]

SUVs are a legitimate vehicle. Not than anyone needs an excuse, this was America, last time Ilooked, but many people transposrt entire baseball/soccer teams, randon herds of children, etc, and need the space.

How about saftey - would you rather be in an SUV or a Yaris in an accident?

How about some people just like them?

[PaceAdvantage]

Not than anyone needs an excuse, this was America, last time Ilooked...Boy, you've got that right. But that doesn't stop Obama from preaching to us what we can and can't drive, and how high or low to set our thermostats.

[Tom]

It is amazing how closely Barry is following the Carter model.
And funny how his campaign is following the 2000 election model. Count some of the votes, not others. Count the ones that can help, not the rest. For a party that claims they want every vote to count, they sure do dance around it a lot. A whole day today figuring out who to dis-enfranchise and how!

Hillary knows how Bush felt,now. No matter how you cut it, the dems have no credibility as far as voting goes. Count this one, not that one, count this one 5,000 times.......what a bunch of malarkey.

Ironic, they want to count some percentage of votes in Fla and MI, to favor the black candidate.....reminiscent of the early constitution, where a black man counted as 3/5's of a white man. The republicans have moved on from that way of thinking, but not the dems. They have always been the party of oppression and always will be. When they are not the party of surrender.:bang:

[Marshall Bennett]

The fashion in which they've carried out their joke of a primary pretty much demonstrates the twisted logic by which they'll lead the country , if they're successful this November .... scarry !! :(

[JustRalph]

They are coming apart at the seams.........

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17724

Headed out to polish my SUV and drive it around just for fun....... :lol:

[OTM Al]

Can't wait til this election is over so maybe for 5 minutes every topic won't go back to it.....though that might be asking too much

[Tom]

Naw, come December, they start for the mid-term elections. :(

[Lefty]

PA, Obama also said we can't continue to eat what we want. Pass the gruel please.

[wonatthewire1]

PA, Obama also said we can't continue to eat what we want. Pass the gruel please.

And he's saying that we can't take deep breaths either - gotta give everybody a chance at the oxygen. Wait till these dimmocrats get to flushing the toilet and the ration coupons for lightbulb usage - ALGore is getting ready to make a bundle on printing up the coupon books we're gonna have to use

[Tom]

PA, Obama also said we can't continue to eat what we want. Pass the gruel please.
This is true. If he gets elected, no one will be able to swallow it.:D

[boxcar]

It is amazing how closely Barry is following the Carter model.
And funny how his campaign is following the 2000 election model. Count some of the votes, not others. Count the ones that can help, not the rest. For a party that claims they want every vote to count, they sure do dance around it a lot. A whole day today figuring out who to dis-enfranchise and how!

Hillary knows how Bush felt,now. No matter how you cut it, the dems have no credibility as far as voting goes. Count this one, not that one, count this one 5,000 times.......what a bunch of malarkey.

Ironic, they want to count some percentage of votes in Fla and MI, to favor the black candidate.....reminiscent of the early constitution, where a black man counted as 3/5's of a white man. The republicans have moved on from that way of thinking, but not the dems. They have always been the party of oppression and always will be. When they are not the party of surrender.:bang:

If it weren't for Double Standards, Liberals wouldn't have any!

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Yes Hummers are safe too, but, like most of these behemoths, totally impractical.

[The Judge]

Last I checked George Bush was president of the United States not Obama. Gas prices are out of this world on his watch the Republican watch.

People are turning in their SUV's not because of Obama said so ,but because they have enough sense to know it a bad deal.

As far as Democrats not counting votes,they are following the rules as laid out in their by-laws. If they have violated their by-laws Clinton knows she can take them to court not just the convention. We all know the Republicans stole the vote in Florida and Ohio and therefor the Presidency of the United States. Now you want to compare a obvious compromise designed to allow Florida and Michican a place in the Convention with stealing the Presidency of the United States. Why stop there how about "Grant surrenders to Lee" as long as you are re-writing history.

[Lefty]

Last I checked the Bush energy plan was vetoed to let us drill in Anwar and other place in the U.S. We also have vast coal deposits that can't be had and it's not Bush stopping this. Nice try but you can't lay gas prices at the feets of GW.

As far as dims by-laws, they're stupid. And people that can't even properly run a primary are people that i certainly don't want running the country.

[Lefty]

zilly, that's what makes this a great country. We have a right to be impractical if we wish to and will pay for it.

[46zilzal]

zilly, that's what makes this a great country. We have a right to be impractical if we wish to and will pay for it.
One of the reasons the country is slowly going South: denial of realities.

[The Judge]

thats it Bush said let his buddies drill for oil someone said no so he gets a pass,great. Why would anyone say you can't drill for oil for no reason at all or because those that drill for oil show a complete contempt for the process?

What does drilling for oil have to do with the price of gas? We would give the big companies our oil and then they would sale it on the open market to the highest bidder to keep the prices high. Its the capitalist way they want to get into your pocket as deep as possible not save you money.

If you want to save money on gas your best bet is to change your driving habits not count on the companies that are screwing you to help you by you giving them a blank check and allowing them to drill for oil in untouched territory. They will just say thanks and keep sticking it to you. When will you learn?

[Lefty]

Outside of asking Congress to go along with him on opening up our resources this pres or any other cannot control the price of gas. It's supply and demand and then you have those futures speculators.
Conserve is nice but you can't conserve enough to drop the price much because of the demand in China and India. It's supply and demand. We must increase the supply and also go to nuclear energy.

[Tom]

So Judge, how do you explain gas prices world-wide are high?
Do you think Bush run the world?

Lefty, people who believe the BS posted in this thread area why we continually fail to take positive actino under a DEMOCRAT congress.
It is far easier to blame tohers than to take responsibility and actually address problems but with Dingy Harry and Bin Losi, procen quitters and defeatists, what do you expect?

[jognlope]

I'm a bus rider, one even goes right by barn, but looking at a car this week, not happy without a car.

[JustRalph]

thats it Bush said let his buddies drill for oil someone said no so he gets a pass,great. Why would anyone say you can't drill for oil for no reason at all or because those that drill for oil show a complete contempt for the process?

What in the hell does that mean?

What does drilling for oil have to do with the price of gas?

I can't believe you can make this statement? Ever heard of supply and demand? You don't think the original pipeline from Alaska didn't affect the oil market?

We would give the big companies our oil and then they would sale it on the open market to the highest bidder to keep the prices high.

Maybe, but more supply would bring the prices down. How in the hell does that keep the prices higher?

Its the capitalist way they want to get into your pocket as deep as possible not save you money.

Funny how you separate yourself from the "capitalist way"


Last I checked George Bush was president of the United States not Obama. Gas prices are out of this world on his watch the Republican watch.

The President cannot set the price of oil? NancyBinLosi said she was going to lower gas prices when the Dems took over the Congress. Guess what???That was two years ago?

We all know the Republicans stole the vote in Florida and Ohio and therefor the Presidency of the United States.

As somebody who stood in line for an hour to vote in Ohio, you are full of shit. The polls and machines were apportioned according to law and voting patterns and such. There was nothing illegal about it. The fact that the Dem precincts decided they wanted to vote once in a blue moon, that they didn't want to stand in the rain, the fact that they didn't plan well enough is a reflection on the precincts and the people themselves. As usual, those issues had an effect on their lives. Why should the election be any different than the rest of their lives?


Now you want to compare a obvious compromise designed to allow Florida and Michican a place in the Convention with stealing the Presidency of the United States. Why stop there how about "Grant surrenders to Lee" as long as you are re-writing history.

You speak of re-writing history after the crap you posted above? Give me a break.............. You sing the song of the proletariat and walk around thinking that way and you will fulfill your own prophecy..........wake up!!!



You are so out of it. You might as well be standing on a corner with your Socialist signs. The anti-capitalist tone shows through on everything you post.

[The Judge]

this why would any oil company want to lower the price of gas? Why would they want to explore for oil when they can make more money not exploring for oil? I know they would like the authority to drill anywhere they want but not at the price of lowering profits(the price of gas).

If the president can't do anything about the price of gas then how does Obama who is not the president name come up in the conversation.

Why does the Democractic Congress come up when George Bush had his own Congress in power and choose to start a war. Draining more oil and invading an oil producing country knocking them out of competition.

The bottom line is if a Spindeltop was found under the New York Stock Exchange the price of gas will not go down.

Can other countries drill for oil? How about Canada, Mexico so called friendly countries what going on there? If the U.S can't drill for oil certainly friendly countries can drill so why doesn't that help? Because drilling got nothing to do with the price of gas.

[Lefty]

Oil companies do not set the price of gas. It's supply and demand. India and China are the biggest consumers of oil and drive up the prices. We need more oil and more refineries to refine the raw product. GW cannot tell Canada and Mexico what to do.
Drilling doesn't affect oil prices? Then you know nothing about supply and demand.
I don't think I ever brght obama up in this conversation about gas, it must have been someone else. Obama cannot do a damn thing about the price of gas if he were pres. But he makes those false promises and some of the uninformed will buy his act. Are you one of those, Judge?

[ddog]

India and China? Really??

Talk about out if it, man.

bbl per day , not even close yet.



https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2174rank.html

And , while you are getting the "construct" correct, go here and check out the oil shale study, for you and other who prattle on endlessly about openning up everything since the DIMS took over.

If they had , you think there is a spigot you can turn on and out comes gasoline?

You need to get out more, supply and demand doesn't work anything like you and "SOME" others seem to think it does in this thread.


http://www.rand.org/research_areas/energy_environment/

[HUSKER55]

If you are not going to do anything to the cartels (terrorism included) then the only alternative is an alternate fuel source.

Supply and demand has nothing to do with this. If it did then all of the refineries would be going full bore and they are not.

husker55

:)

[bill]

if it was supply and demand then why didnt gas go trough the sky when they said there was a shortage and we had lines at the pump

we arent missing the oil only seeing price gouge

lefty said that we dont know how much the oil co(exxon close to enron) are reinvesting of their money ,the way i see it none it states 40.6 bil profit and thats after paying 1 ceo over $100,000/day salary

profit to me is what i put in my pocket after expenses

[Lefty]

It is supply and demand. When there was a gas shortage in the 70's gas did take wuite a jump in price for the times. I realize you don't open a spigot and gas comes out. That's why i've said many times we shoulda started 30 yrs ago but wackos citing the environment kept voting against it. Ditto for the refineries. I do blve the refineries that are operational are going full bore.
Oil companies have a right to make a profit. Same as any other country. They make about a 7% markup. Is that excessive. You guys blaming the wrong people.

[Marshall Bennett]

The 70's problem was more of a panic that resulted in a shortage . The fall of the Shah of Iran created a massive hording of reserves ( A Jimmy Carter trademark ) in anticipation of a complete shutdown of Iranian exports , which simply never happened . Those reserves were eventually capped and the problem went away . The Carter administration blamed the crisis on the oil producers , hence his theory of a need in govt. regulation over those same companies . The 70's oil crisis was indeed a hidden screwed up joke that never should have happened . Carter tried to pass the buck , plain & simple .

[JustRalph]

this why would any oil company want to lower the price of gas? Why would they want to explore for oil when they can make more money not exploring for oil? I know they would like the authority to drill anywhere they want but not at the price of lowering profits(the price of gas).

If the president can't do anything about the price of gas then how does Obama who is not the president name come up in the conversation.

Why does the Democractic Congress come up when George Bush had his own Congress in power and choose to start a war. Draining more oil and invading an oil producing country knocking them out of competition.

The bottom line is if a Spindeltop was found under the New York Stock Exchange the price of gas will not go down.

Can other countries drill for oil? How about Canada, Mexico so called friendly countries what going on there? If the U.S can't drill for oil certainly friendly countries can drill so why doesn't that help? Because drilling got nothing to do with the price of gas.

Iraq was not allowed to sell oil under the sanctions imposed after the first gulf war. Actually they could sell some oil, but not much. Unless of course you count the United Nations backdoor Oil deals that were going on with France and others. We buy more oil from Canada than anybody else. Mexico is second. The fact that they don't own ANWR and the gulf coast of Florida and Texas might have something to do with why Canada is not drilling for oil in those areas. :bang: :bang:

[JustRalph]

If you are not going to do anything to the cartels (terrorism included) then the only alternative is an alternate fuel source.

Supply and demand has nothing to do with this. If it did then all of the refineries would be going full bore and they are not.

husker55

:)

They don't run at full capacity (although they are close to full capacity) because they have to make changes every year due to environmental rules etc. They constantly have part of the refinery being changed over. There are so many different blends required that the change over function is a year round event now. Here is a site for some info. This discussion has become inane. If you aren't willing to believe that the supply channel being increased wouldn't reduce the cost of oil............you won't believe anything else that makes sense. Opec is the only group that adds or takes away from the market on a whim. We only get 30 percent or so of our oil from them anyway. As demand goes up........prices go up and speculation begins when the profits allow for it. Just like any other commodity.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/oil_market_basics/refining_text.htm

[PaceAdvantage]

Last I checked George Bush was president of the United States not Obama. Gas prices are out of this world on his watch the Republican watch.Hey man, the Democrats control Congress now, and Congress creates laws, not Bush. I blame Congress.

[hcap]

Don't worry. Be happy.

http://www.physorg.com/news131101595.html

Physicist Claims First Real Demonstration of Cold Fusion

"Physics Professor Yoshiaki Arata of Osaka University in Japan claims to have made the first successful demonstration of cold fusion. Last Thursday, May 22, Arata and his colleague Yue-Chang Zhang of Shianghai Jiotong University presented the cold fusion demonstration to 60 onlookers, including other physicists, as well as reporters from six major newspapers and two TV studios. If Arata and Zhang´s demonstration is real, it could lead to a future of new, clean, and cheap energy generation.

In their experiment, the physicists forced deuterium gas into a cell containing a mixture of palladium and zirconium oxide, which absorbed the deuterium to produce a dense "pynco" deuterium. In this dense state, the deuterium nuclei from different atoms were so close together that they fused to produce helium nuclei."

[JustRalph]

We have read about this before........... I remember in the 80's this was going to change the world...........you know............like the Segway :lol:

I hope this guy is for real. It would make for an interesting world after he perfects it.


Don't worry. Be happy.

http://www.physorg.com/news131101595.html

Physicist Claims First Real Demonstration of Cold Fusion

"Physics Professor Yoshiaki Arata of Osaka University in Japan claims to have made the first successful demonstration of cold fusion. Last Thursday, May 22, Arata and his colleague Yue-Chang Zhang of Shianghai Jiotong University presented the cold fusion demonstration to 60 onlookers, including other physicists, as well as reporters from six major newspapers and two TV studios. If Arata and Zhang´s demonstration is real, it could lead to a future of new, clean, and cheap energy generation.

In their experiment, the physicists forced deuterium gas into a cell containing a mixture of palladium and zirconium oxide, which absorbed the deuterium to produce a dense "pynco" deuterium. In this dense state, the deuterium nuclei from different atoms were so close together that they fused to produce helium nuclei."

[so.cal.fan]

What about Ray Kurzweil's belief that nano-solar power will be the answer worldwide within the next 20 years?

[ddog]

It is supply and demand. When there was a gas shortage in the 70's gas did take wuite a jump in price for the times. I realize you don't open a spigot and gas comes out. That's why i've said many times we shoulda started 30 yrs ago but wackos citing the environment kept voting against it. Ditto for the refineries. I do blve the refineries that are operational are going full bore.
Oil companies have a right to make a profit. Same as any other country. They make about a 7% markup. Is that excessive. You guys blaming the wrong people.

The issue with supply and demand you guys don't seem to get is the driver of BOTH sides, the PRICE, THE PRICE , THE PRICE.

No oil comapny in their right mind would have STARTED DOING ANYTHING to help us 30 years ago or 10 years or 5 YEARS AGO.
THE price didn't support the investment back then.
Just didn't.
SO, even if everything was wide open since the dawn of time, nobody would push a drill in there if they couldn't see some relative short-mid term way to profit.

The technology and price and market would not have worked.

If WE would have created a floor price for oil at say 50% plus the spot market price for the last 10 years, there is no way to rationally argue that we would not have more of everything NOW at this price.

I don't care who got the extra taxes,military, welfare, whoever, I don't care.
We needed someone with some balls to stand up and tell the sheep in this country the truth, you may need to pay more in the short run to have a stable price and supply in the long run.


simple market forces.
they just needed US to not be so damn foolish on something that drives the world and of course us.

You can not ask the Oil companies,etc. to be civic minded as the top priority, that's not the way markets work if left alone, it doesn't care what country gets the shaft , not one bit.

[Lefty]

You keep harping on the oil co.s. They do not control the prices. It's that simple and that complicated. I don't think if you had a business working on a 7-8% profit margin to be excessive. Not drilling was not the decision of oil companies, it became cowtowing to wackos.

[ddog]

i am not harping on the oil companies.

I am trying to tell you why that even if the oil companies and the refiners and drillers and shippers and whoever else you wish to drag into this thread had the WHOLE WORLD OPEN FOR THE LAST 10-15 years, it would not seem to have made a difference NOW.

Not in some fantasy world, but NOW.

The supply would always lag the demand with these kind of price spikes.

It takes too long to find and open the spigot NOW DAYS.

Simple , very simple facts of life.

I am surprised it seems so otherwordly to you and others here.

[Lefty]

Ok, ddog. That's your take. I happen to think you are wrong, but we'll never know because no drilling was done in the places i have mentioned. Clinton even put the rich low sulpher coal deposits in Utah off limits.

[Tom]

Back to the topic...I bought a Hyundai Elantra today. Suprising amount of room inside - more than my Olds 88 hab. Very comfortable car.

[lsbets]

Back to the topic...I bought a Hyundai Elantra today. Suprising amount of room inside - more than my Olds 88 hab. Very comfortable car.

I bought my wife a KIA Sportage for Christmas, she was tired of the Suburban and wanted something smaller but still an SUV. Its a great little SUV - plenty of room for the kids, more room in back than I thought it would have (which is good because I sold my truck and bought a Mustang last week), and rides really well.

[wonatthewire1]

Back to the topic...I bought a Hyundai Elantra today. Suprising amount of room inside - more than my Olds 88 hab. Very comfortable car.


...thought you'd like that one - I was driving by the Hyundai dealership on the way home today and they had a couple of 3 door Accents in Apple Green didn't do much for me.

[Tom]

I bought it fro this guy.....my spritiual advisor! :lol:
pQO0v_HEGU0

[JustRalph]

New Refinery maybe going in, South Dakota. The First since 1976?

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2008/06/04/news/top/4e608d46402d5adb8625745e00110beb.txt

Union County approves zoning ordinance for Hyperion
By Dave Dreeszen Journal business editor

ELK POINT, S.D. -- Flashing a smile, Joyce Bortscheller briefly hugged Hyperion Energy Center executive Preston Phillips as she greeted him in the backyard of her home here.

Bortscheller, president of the Elk Point City Council, had invited about 250 supporters to an outdoor barbecue Tuesday to await the returns for arguably the most important election in Union County's history. The big crowd didn't leave disappointed.

As midnight approached, they popped the champagne corks, celebrating a hard-fought victory that keeps alive the county's chances of landing the nation's first all-new oil refinery in 32 years.

By a solid 58 percent to 42 percent margin, county voters approved Hyperion's request to rezone 3,292 acres of farm land for a new classification, Energy Center Planned Development.

"What happened tonight, we were not supposed to be able to do," Phillips told a cheering audience. "Development projects like this are supposed to be outright rejected by residents and neighbors. But this project is a testament to our balancing the needs for growth and for protecting the environment."

At stake was billions of dollars in capital investment and thousands of high-paying jobs. From the beginning, Hyperion executives said they would abandon its Union County site, just north of Elk Point, if a majority of voters failed to give their blessing to the rezoning.

~much more at the link

[Tom]

Just heard the announcement...7 new refineries will be built by 2012! :jump:




....in Iran.:mad:


Our tree huging leadership is furhter behind than the Flintstone nation!
Those red-natives they spotted in South America - firing off arrows at the airplane......was that the DNC?

[OTM Al]

Last I heard, there had been little to no attempt to even repair the damage done to the gulf refineries done by Katrina. Comes down to profits as always. No need to build new ones or even repair damaged ones if you are happy with the bottom line.

[Tom]

If that is true, and the oil companies are using lack of capacity as an excuse, than why the hell doesn't congress direct thier mndless hearings to specifics like this than Leaky Lehy's moronic comment "How much did you make last year?" I don't care who is right, dems or repubs, just for crying out loud, someone get off yer arses and do the GD job we elected you to do.

[ddog]

I give em a pass on those for now.
Up until the last few month they had no reason to do anything.
I am not sure of the economics of a rebuild in place given all the infrastructure problems and the very sure fact of getting hit in 5-10 years again.

Also, just because one wants to build or rebuild refining doesn't mean the raw materials and labour are avail at a price they could pay even at the current market price.

It's a messy deal , the timelines involved against short term profits.

Maybe the lowest cost places to refine are in third world countries and then ship to us.

Free Market forces always solve it, right?

Maybe we should incent Mexicans by the thousands to come here and help us rebuild and then man the refineries for 5.50 an hour?

[wonatthewire1]

I bought it fro this guy.....my spritiual advisor! :lol:
pQO0v_HEGU0


Good one - you should have come down to Jersey and picked one up from Brad Benson's dealership (former NY Giant) - sells for $3-5,000 under sticker and is growing fast

http://bradbensonhyundai.net/new_inventory.htm?reset=InventoryListing

A little far for me too - but he's advertising a lot on WFAN Sports Radio

[wonatthewire1]

One woman's crusade!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080605/ap_on_fe_st/odd_gas_protest_fires

:eek:

[Tom]

Well, after my first tank of gas, I calculate 35.3 mpg.....compared to 17.8 one my last car.:p

[JustRalph]

Well, after my first tank of gas, I calculate 35.3 mpg.....compared to 17.8 one my last car.:p


nice! Cut your gas bill in half............... :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Now if I could only get this stupid grin off my face!:p

[46zilzal]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Oil prices surged for the second straight day, cresting a previous trading high, on a dollar decline that stemmed from a weak jobs report, geopolitical tensions and a forecast of $150-a-barrel oil.

At 1:20 p.m. ET, the July light crude contract was up $8.81 to $136.60 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, surpassing the $135.09-a-barrel trading record set May 22.

[robert99]

I give em a pass on those for now.
Up until the last few month they had no reason to do anything.
I am not sure of the economics of a rebuild in place given all the infrastructure problems and the very sure fact of getting hit in 5-10 years again.

Also, just because one wants to build or rebuild refining doesn't mean the raw materials and labour are avail at a price they could pay even at the current market price.

It's a messy deal , the timelines involved against short term profits.

Maybe the lowest cost places to refine are in third world countries and then ship to us.

Free Market forces always solve it, right?

Maybe we should incent Mexicans by the thousands to come here and help us rebuild and then man the refineries for 5.50 an hour?

The impact of loss to US was known since September 2005 and it kick-started the long rise in oil prices.
See http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/special/eia1_katrina_090205.html

BP's oil refinery explosion in Texas and Alaskan pipeline closure have added to the mix.

Refining your own puts you in control of all the real money earning by-products.

Lloyds of London paid out huge insurance sums to the companies for the loss of plant and future revenues. The money is there - the will is weak.

[chickenhead]

Well, after my first tank of gas, I calculate 35.3 mpg.....compared to 17.8 one my last car.:p

Tom took some medicine and now he feels better :ThmbUp:

[ddog]

The impact of loss to US was known since September 2005 and it kick-started the long rise in oil prices.
See http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/special/eia1_katrina_090205.html

BP's oil refinery explosion in Texas and Alaskan pipeline closure have added to the mix.

Refining your own puts you in control of all the real money earning by-products.

Lloyds of London paid out huge insurance sums to the companies for the loss of plant and future revenues. The money is there - the will is weak.


I am all for refining and drilling our own.

The money may be there , but the resources are NOT.
Money without anything to spend it on and or leaders to allocate it and/or a long-term price floor will not get the job done anymore.

When only profits are the measure, then believe it or not risk to current profits will not be taken in this country anymore it seems on such a long term payback.


I think we should site the things in Meico and be done with it.
Costs should be much less to get it started there.

Wait until the next bombing runs in the ME, then you shall see a SPIKE!

prices spike has MUCH MORE to do with dollar and specs looking for return than current supply.

[wonatthewire1]

we average abt 32 commuting and 38 when going a bit further in our Scion xD

My 740i sits in the garage - much better to take the Scion tC out now a days

Firing up the TR6 this weekend

:jump:

[highnote]

It isn't certain that the high price of oil can be attributed to only supply and demand.

The weak U.S. dollar is a major factor and oil is priced in dollars. Countries with strong currencies relative to the US dollar are not feeling the effects of high oil as much.

There may be a lot of trend following hedge funds speculating in commodities.

True, oil prices are affected by supply and demand, but the tight supply might be artificial and could soon disappear if it is true that there are a lot of oil tankers being leased by Iran and sitting out in the ocean filled with oil at a cost of $140,000 per week. And the price of a tanker goes higher as the supply of tankers diminishes.

As John Mauldin has written recently: "Iran's oil is of poor quality, so they may be having a hard time selling it. Only India, China the US and a few other countries can refine it. And you can be certain Iranian oil finds its way to the US.

India prefers higher quality oil. So Iran has to decide whether to send it to China or repackage it for the US while they try to get India to change their minds. In the meantime, they lease tankers to store the oil they keep pumping.

It's possible at sometime that a huge amount of oil could come onto the market. There is a serious tanker shortage. Lease prices are soaring. There are a lot of speculators betting that oil is going to rise to $150 and are willing to pay very high prices for keeping the oil on the seas waiting for higher prices. It is a speculative boom."

He continues his article telling a story of how flying into New York in the early '80s and seeing 30 or so tankers sitting outside in the harbor, waiting for prices to continue to increase as they had been doing for some time. When prices did not continue they all tried to get into the harbor at the same time and could not. It was the top of the market and prices dropped and the owners of the oil had to go to the futures market to hedge what they could.

Part of this rally is short covering by institutions and companies which had sold production far into the future at much lower prices."

So the big question is, "Is it 1980 all over again?"

You can read the rest of the actual article from John Mauldin here. My post doesn't do it justice. It's a free newsletter by an outstanding economist. Financial conservatives should like what he says, but I think even liberals will find he makes good arguments.

http://www.frontlinethoughts.com/subscribe.asp

[wonatthewire1]

With all the global warming that is hitting us this weekend (mid to upper 90's), I've noticed that people were driving today with their windows open rather than running the AC in the vehicle!

A lot of hanging arms - kind of interesting - never really noticed that before in oppressive heat.

[jballscalls]

With all the global warming that is hitting us this weekend (mid to upper 90's), I've noticed that people were driving today with their windows open rather than running the AC in the vehicle!

A lot of hanging arms - kind of interesting - never really noticed that before in oppressive heat.

Its 50 something and rainy here in Seattle, i wish this global warming would kick in!!

[ddog]

i'll say one thing, no matter what, somebody somewhere better be growing corn, in the MidWest we sure ain't.

can't even get it planted, most going to beans.

plus looking at another huge storm/up to 5 more inches rain tonight/monday.

if hits not good.

check those markets guys.

[ddog]

decent link to the "costs".


http://www.kval.com/news/national/19413939.html

[ddog]

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=205797-1&showVid=true


pay attention to CFTC regs , no sunshine.

check greenburgrs and ramm about 30 min in....

[Lefty]

Yeah, global warming due to a leetle something calledsummer. AC's decrease gas mileage. Nothing mysterious.

[wonatthewire1]

another myth busted and by Edmunds no less

Scroll down to test 4 and click the link; has something to do with modern cars not with the Ford Fairlane

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/106842/article.html#test4

[Lefty]

:cool:
Won, makes no difference if it's true or not. That's what most of us have been told and what we blve.

[wonatthewire1]

lefty you are a riot - almost (I said almost) as funny as zilly, hubcab, boxie and king richie

:D


If ya believe it - then it must be so...despite the evidence - just like this borrow and spend admin - so much debt, so many more taxes to raise by the next admin - no matter which letter follows their name

The medicine is a 'comin'

[wonatthewire1]

Yeah, global warming due to a leetle something calledsummer. AC's decrease gas mileage. Nothing mysterious.


"a leetle something calledsummer"?

Summer starts on June 20th - ya gotta a couple of weeks

:rolleyes:

[Lefty]

And you are as good at missing points as all those you mentioned. People are driving with their windows open because they THINK the AC decreases gas mileage. I guess you don't blve that. Well, that's the reason. You got a better hypothesis?

[wonatthewire1]

you said "us" that is why it is funny - despite the evidence

Kind of like saying this admin wants to put up the border fence so the Mexicans can't get in but forgetting that the govt allowed millions to flow through - that "fact", when brought up, y'all went silent

:D

[Lefty]

won, do you really think the dims gonna do anything about illegal immigration? And nice the way you jump from people not using air conditioners to blaming the admin for illegal immigration. Truth is, neither party has showed enough interest in solving the prob.
The sun still gets darn hot in June. But if ya want to blame global warming, gourd head.
It's gonna be the new way to institute a new wave of taxes upon us all.

[Tom]

If they want to take away my air conditioner, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands. :p

[ddog]

i'll say one thing, no matter what, somebody somewhere better be growing corn, in the MidWest we sure ain't.

can't even get it planted, most going to beans.

plus looking at another huge storm/up to 5 more inches rain tonight/monday.

if hits not good.

check those markets guys.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aQbf6P1pF8jQ

See , it's just that easy.
How long this game been going on anyway!
Eat up you all!
:jump:

[46zilzal]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/08/gas-hits-4-a-gallon-bush-hadnt-heard-that/

[JustRalph]

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/08/gas-hits-4-a-gallon-bush-hadnt-heard-that/


So, let's hear your plan to lower gas prices? Detail out for us what you think should be done? Come on? If you can accuse Bush of having control over gas prices, you obviously can tell us what he can do to fix the problem?

Get busy..................I expect you to post ASAP

[wonatthewire1]

So, let's hear your plan to lower gas prices? Detail out for us what you think should be done? Come on? If you can accuse Bush of having control over gas prices, you obviously can tell us what he can do to fix the problem?

Get busy..................I expect you to post ASAP


okay, I'll bite ---- use as little as possible ---- it is working for me!

My 740i is sitting in the garage all by itself - if steel goes up in price, we'll send it over to the crusher!

Even my '72 TR6 is getting 31 mpg despite not having an air conditioner (just a natural one) -

:ThmbUp:

[Tom]

For a list of those who use crooksandliars.com for facts, go to foolsanddipshits.com

[Tom]

won, do you really think the dims gonna do anything about illegal immigration?

The dims aren't going to do anything about anything. They have been in control a year and a half and accomplished zero. They will raise taxes, give Al Qeda a new lease on life, and destroy the economy with this GW foolishness. Already in Californina, they are talking about outlawing bond fires to prevent GW! What kind of stupid morons actually believe that nonsense?

[ddog]

simple first step

get rid of the "enron loophole" snuck in 2000 that allow U.S. oil to be traded on DUBAI and British exchange with no regulations, trust them , they are looking out for us, sure.
This along with the recent startup of the Dubai exchange
is a very bad deal.
they are handling around 30% or so of WTIC we have no idea what the "black money" is doing to that.

write your rep, this will help you greatly.





contracts up 8000% Ferc regulators down 12%.
this is called getting gvt off your back while they pick your pocket. what passes for free markets these days.


Get the paper/index traders out of the oil commodity markets or hike the margin requirments to 50% from round 3-6% now.

speculation,pure and simple and withholding of supplies for higher prices are the top 30-40 bucks on a barrel of oil.

Opec is "defending" 80-85 buck per barrell, that should tell you something.

there are things that could be done, "Enron hole" with the swipe of a penn, but nobody seems to want to take their duty seriously.
wonder why, it's not rocket science.


Starting at next FOMC meeting HIKE rates by 25bps.
Give guidance from same that we are going to 3.00 by end of year.

this will hike dollar super strong and help knock oil down.
will be good for stocks (non-fin) as well.

P.S. all of the above requires no law to be passed and can be done in 1 day - Enron and the margin only has to be floated to get effect. Give 60 notice for people to unwind.

Your gvt, if serious would have this teed up right now.

[JustRalph]

For a list of those who use crooksandliars.com for facts, go to foolsanddipshits.com


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[JustRalph]

I posted this in another thread..........probably belonged here.

http://www.hickpolitics.com/wp-images/gas_prices.jpg

[wonatthewire1]

I posted this in another thread..........probably belonged here.

http://www.hickpolitics.com/wp-images/gas_prices.jpg


Nice try JR - but considering the source (those tiny letters at the bottom of the pic) and the inability to actually do math over the years of exploding expenditures by the Govt - doesn't hold much in the way of credibility.

:lol:

[JustRalph]

why don't you try disputing the points of the graphic? Instead of just disregarding the info because it comes from the Repub whip?

[Tom]

A challenge has been thrown down, Won....care to discuss the facts? Let's start with "sue the OPECers." :eek:

[wonatthewire1]

A challenge has been thrown down, Won....care to discuss the facts? Let's start with "sue the OPECers." :eek:


Sorry Tom if you thought I was taking the demonrat side of the equation, nothing could be further from actuality.

The "prop" comes from a political animal, therefore, it holds no water. The R's had all the power for years and did nothing to assist with drilling our own stuff. Makes it comical to see them "coming up with a solution" when the problem is supposedly out of control.

Not buying the hype - and without the higher prices, the oil companies have no incentive to drill for expensive oil. You might try to get the govt to support the $ a bit more, that would effectively remove the speculators using oil as a hedge. But govt types don't understand all that market stuff - they just want to get out the smoke and mirrors.

If the govt did support the $ and it strengthened, then you would get lower oil prices. However, then our exports won't be attractive to foreign buyers and we could easily slip into a recession. So that is your choice, higher fuel prices or a recession.

Higher fuel prices for me and I've heard that you've changed some of your ways as well...we'll adapt to smaller vehicles - no problem!

;)

[prospector]

seems simple to me..
we need to increase production in oil at home or come up with new sources of energy..

i vote we send the environmentalists to Alaska to hug deers and then drill at home and offshore without the crap they raise..

i really don't want to hear any ideas about how to fix the problem that doesn't increase production...that tax the oil companies didn't work last time..won't work now...
who is john galt?

[46zilzal]

why don't you try disputing the points of the graphic? Instead of just disregarding the info because it comes from the Repub whip?
You could write down anything....The trick is making it come close to working.

Get it straight: Gas is a finite resource. There is beginning to become much greater demand than resource and the price goes up NO MATTER WHICH PARTY sits in the White House or Congress.

[Lefty]

zilly, then you should be in favor of increased production; visa vie, our own resources!

[Tom]

Higher fuel prices for me and I've heard that you've changed some of your ways as well...we'll adapt to smaller vehicles - no problem!

;)

Actually, I didn't buy a small car, per se. There is more room in the Hyundai than tehe was in my 10 year old Olds. The exhaust was going, so it was rally time to buy.

[JustRalph]

The R's had all the power for years and did nothing to assist with drilling our own stuff. Makes it comical to see them "coming up with a solution" when the problem is supposedly out of control.

Where the hell were you in 1995?

From Wiki:
In 1995, Republicans prepared to take up the battle again and included a provision for ANWR in the federal budget. President Bill Clinton vetoed the entire budget and expressed his intention to veto any other bill that would open ANWR to drilling.

This was Newt's Contract with America Congress. Guess what, had Clinton approved the Anwar drilling we would have been pumping oil for at least five years now..............????? You know, that five years where gas prices have skyrocketed? I notice you still don't address the facts posted in the graphic?

[Tom]

So, thank Billy Boy for:

1. Al Qeda
2. High gas prices


Thank you, Billy Boy (proven liar)

[JustRalph]

The GM Volt car (production model) has been spotted on the set of the new Transformers sequel............

http://gm-volt.com/

http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/28/breaking-production-volt-spied-the-real-deal/

video

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1631252024/bctid1759811968

Rumor is, that black roof is a solar panel................