How do the libs on this board respond to this?

[King Ritchie]

Vaclav Klaus, president, Czech Republic, yesterday, National Press Club, trying to warn everybody in America that we are being hoaxed with global warming and Algore. Here is first of several bites we have from the president of the Czech Republic, Vaclav Klaus.

</SPAN>

“I spent most of my life under the communist regime which ignored and brutally violated human freedom, and I remember quite well, wanted to command, not only the people, but also the nature, to command wind and rain is one of the famous slogans I remember since my childhood. In the past, it was in the name of the Marxist or the proletariat, this time in the name of the planet. Structurally, it is very similar. The current danger as I see it is environmentalism and especially its strongest version, climate alarmism. We are now at the stage where the facts, reason, truth are powerless in the face of the global warming propaganda. We have probably and regretfully already reached that stage. Now, the whole process is already in the hands of those who are not interested in rational ideas and arguments. It is in the hands of climatologists and other related scientists who are highly motivated to look in one direction only because a large number of academic careers has evolved around the idea of manmade global warming. It is fodder in the hands of politicians who, through the manipulation of people, maximized the number of votes they seek to get from the electorate. The green movement is trying to dictate, control, regulate, mastermind our lives. This is what we see every day. They want to discuss how many children we can have because the man is a creature which damages the atmosphere because of breathing. They are dictating us what kind of cars we can use, how big the refrigerators we can have. I speak as someone who lived in a communist era and who knows what it means to eliminate freedom, as someone who knows what it means to eliminate the market economy, someone who knows what it means to regulate, to command, to mastermind the economy from above. I don't believe that man is destroying the planet and environmentalism is based not on small issues of saving electricity here in the National Press Club or of greening one pond or lake or water. That's not environmentalism. Environmentalism is an ideology which wants to control the world.”
</SPAN></SPAN>

</SPAN>

[wonatthewire1]

...hmmmm...not citing the source....hmmmm.... :mad:

Wasn't he involved in some money scandals back in the 1990's? (will have to check (no pun intended) sometime) - I do remember that he and Havel don't get along

[jballscalls]

does every liberal on this board agree with Al Gore on the issue??

[OTM Al]

Some probably think me somewhat left of center but I couldn't bring myself to vote for Gore when he ran. I don't know if the environment is as doom and gloom as he says, but I do know there are way too many places in this world that have been really messed up and too many species on the brink of destruction that it really wouldn't hurt us to do some of the things he proposes. We should cut pollution wherever possible and develop cleaner energy (hey I'm for nuclear power however) and we should recycle. These are things that just make sense no matter what side of the aisle you want to sit on. Those of you against it, forget global warning and just focus on reducing wanton destruction of the world we live in.

[King Ritchie]

...hmmmm...not citing the source....hmmmm.... :mad:

Wasn't he involved in some money scandals back in the 1990's? (will have to check (no pun intended) sometime) - I do remember that he and Havel don't get along

Speech at the National Press Club - I'm sure you can find it all over the Internet if you look - probably on YouTube also.

[ddog]

I don't know what any of the green stuff has to do with dim or pugs.

If you ask anyone, do you wish for you and yours to live with clean air to breath, clean water to drink, the world you and your children exist in to be as close to what was intended by the creator as possible, all the species diversity that existed when we started to exist when we are gone do you think many would disagree?

if we can help this along by taking into account the "green" side of things and if in doing that we think along some different lines then I just can't see the harm.

The people that rail about the end of this and that and the command control would have been the same ones that railed about the disappearance of the horse and buggy when autos came in.


progress requires thinking new thoughts for old problems.

green has it's place.

when people argue about who/what causes warming they are looking for a diversion or an out to the real issues.

Many companies seem to be adopting some of the gore guys concerns.

if it's for PR or whatever, I don't know in all cases.
I doubt it though given the short-term pressure most are under to meet nbrs.

I know this for sure, normally the surest way to turn a poster like the KIng to a flaming greenie is to propose to build a hydro plant or a coal fired power plant or a garbage dump or a checmical plant in his backyard.

Oh, they glow so green you would think a ST Patties day parade invaded the hearing , positively "My favorite Martian" like then.


Far as Klaus goes , know nothing about the guy.
he could be a martian for all the say he has on anything as far as i can see.

Not sure why the opinion of this non american should be taken anymore seriously than any of the many foreign leaders who are regularly excoriated on the site.

[King Ritchie]

Far as Klaus goes , know nothing about the guy.
he could be a martian for all the say he has on anything as far as i can see.

Not sure why the opinion of this non american should be taken anymore seriously than any of the many foreign leaders who are regularly excoriated on the site.

He's only the President, Czech Republic, who lived under Communism. Guess you know more than him.

[King Ritchie]

[QUOTE=ddog]
I know this for sure, normally the surest way to turn a poster like the KIng to a flaming greenie is to propose to build a hydro plant or a coal fired power plant or a garbage dump or a checmical plant in his backyard.

[QUOTE]

What's that got to do with what the President is saying?

[JustRalph]

Some probably think me somewhat left of center but I couldn't bring myself to vote for Gore when he ran. I don't know if the environment is as doom and gloom as he says, but I do know there are way too many places in this world that have been really messed up and too many species on the brink of destruction that it really wouldn't hurt us to do some of the things he proposes. We should cut pollution wherever possible and develop cleaner energy (hey I'm for nuclear power however) and we should recycle. These are things that just make sense no matter what side of the aisle you want to sit on. Those of you against it, forget global warning and just focus on reducing wanton destruction of the world we live in.

Interesting Post Al. Can you name 3 species that are on the brink of destruction........... ? I would love to hear it and then I can look it up.

[singletax]

I consider myself a liberal and never bought the "global warming caused by humans scare" or the "commie under everyone's bed scare" or the current "islamo facist be afraid of terrorists scare" or whatever the NEOCONs are spewing.

When landowners along the coastlines start dumping their land at discount prices because of rising sea levels I'll start listening. One has to ditch their brain and think history started this year to be alarmed with the current global warming hysteria. The earth has always warmed and cooled. I'll add to Vaclav Klaus.

First, there are polluters who want to deny global warming exists so they can go on polluting at our expense for their cash flow.

Second, there are corporate profiteers who want to exacerbate this global warming crusade for government rewards like "cap and trade". Basically, an old polluting utility would get paid for not burning coal it no longer has. Kind of like farmers getting paid for not growing crops.

Third, corporations will want direct subsidies from taxpayers because their "cooperating".

Fourth, the academics will want continual grants (academic subsidies) to save us from human caused global warming. This would never end because there is nothing to save us from. Industrial CO2 has an impact on greenhouse effect but is not the major player Al Gore and the nuts want us to believe.

There are two types of global warming: solar effect and greenhouse effect.


Conclusion: The cost in funding this fiction will pale in comparison to the unintended consequences of it. Be cautious of large well-funded alarmist environmentist groups. Some (not all) of "Big Business" is involved and it isn't for a clean environment. This is one issue where we should take each environmental group and each corporation one at a time.

Personally, I think the problem regarding honey bees is more important then
human caused global warming.

[lcohen]

Interesting Post Al. Can you name 3 species that are on the brink of destruction........... ? I would love to hear it and then I can look it up.
touche Ralph
Never let facts get in the way.
and by the way, no it's not the polar bear

[jognlope]

I don't give a sh__ I just want the polar bear to be able to hunt for seal again and not fall into the water because the ice is too thin.

[Tom]

99% of all species ever on the Earth have gone extinct.
It is part of nature.
Anyone miss the tyrannosaurus?




And polar bears can swim for miles. That stranded bear on an iceberg was a lie - the bear was not stranded at all. Polar bears have more than doubled since the 60's....putting them on the list is strictly a ploy to make it harder for oil exploration. This is the bottom line of the GW hoax - political agneda by tree hugging rat bastards. And money-grubbing SOBs like the origninal Greenhouse Gasbag, Al Gore.

[46zilzal]

Interesting Post Al. Can you name 3 species that are on the brink of destruction........... ? I would love to hear it and then I can look it up.
http://www.iucnredlist.org/info/categories_criteria

Many subspecies of larger animals like the Java and Sumatran Rhinos, Sumatran and Malayan Tiger, etc.

[OTM Al]

Yes Tom, over 99% of the species that have lived on this planet have become extinct. The difference is that they became extinct over thousands and millions of years through natural selection and some other species gradually took over their place. When species become extinct from pollution and destruction of habitat nothing replaces them. But you know, who really cares because they are just animals right.

I like birds Ralph, so here are three species of birds that have nearly been wiped out

Kakapo, a fligthless nocturnal parrot species in New Zealand. Largest of the parrots weight wise. Thought completely extinct due to introduction by settlers of cats and ferrets into an environment that had no mammals until then, a few were found on a small island. Here is their story

http://www.kakapo.net/en/

California Condor. Nearly wiped out by PCPs dumped into the waters which affected egg density and lead poisoning, thus causing few hatchings. Also poached heavily.

http://www.peregrinefund.org/Explore_Raptors/vultures/cacondor.html

Hyacinth Macaw, while not nearly in as critical shape as the above two, the largest, sizewise, of the parrots and probably one of the most mild tempered of the species is having its habitat destroyed and has been over hunted for their feathers and for illegal pet trade. More probably exist in captivity than do in the wild

http://www.hyacinthmacaw.org/hyacinthmacaw.htm

That's 3 of the over 16000 classified species that are endangered

[Lefty]

It's all about another way to tax us. They get their way and we'll all have to buy carbon credits for virtually everything.

[jcrabboy]

Vaclav Klaus, president, Czech Republic, yesterday, National Press Club, trying to warn everybody in America that we are being hoaxed with global warming and Algore. Here is first of several bites we have from the president of the Czech Republic, Vaclav Klaus.

</SPAN>

“I spent most of my life under the communist regime which ignored and brutally violated human freedom, and I remember quite well, wanted to command, not only the people, but also the nature, to command wind and rain is one of the famous slogans I remember since my childhood. In the past, it was in the name of the Marxist or the proletariat, this time in the name of the planet. Structurally, it is very similar. The current danger as I see it is environmentalism and especially its strongest version, climate alarmism. We are now at the stage where the facts, reason, truth are powerless in the face of the global warming propaganda. We have probably and regretfully already reached that stage. Now, the whole process is already in the hands of those who are not interested in rational ideas and arguments. It is in the hands of climatologists and other related scientists who are highly motivated to look in one direction only because a large number of academic careers has evolved around the idea of manmade global warming. It is fodder in the hands of politicians who, through the manipulation of people, maximized the number of votes they seek to get from the electorate. The green movement is trying to dictate, control, regulate, mastermind our lives. This is what we see every day. They want to discuss how many children we can have because the man is a creature which damages the atmosphere because of breathing. They are dictating us what kind of cars we can use, how big the refrigerators we can have. I speak as someone who lived in a communist era and who knows what it means to eliminate freedom, as someone who knows what it means to eliminate the market economy, someone who knows what it means to regulate, to command, to mastermind the economy from above. I don't believe that man is destroying the planet and environmentalism is based not on small issues of saving electricity here in the National Press Club or of greening one pond or lake or water. That's not environmentalism. Environmentalism is an ideology which wants to control the world.”
</SPAN></SPAN>

</SPAN>
King Ritchie:

This guy has an agenda.

I googled air pollution in the Czech Republic and found that they have a huge pollution problem which includes acid rain. It doesn't take much digging to realize this is another Pol on the dole (corporate).

He is under big pressure to clean up Prague, etc., so he comes to America to air a load of horseshit. What better place to gain a sympathetic ear if you want to keep the air befouled and your personal coffers full?

We have a veteran line up of do-nothing fat cat politicians starting with King George and rippling outward. Both sides of the aisle will no doubt embrace this guy who understands it's not the people, it's not the planet, no it's the Pocketbook that is most important.

I know I have said this before, but multiple sourcing will help identify the fault that lies within much of the info posted left and right. Trusting a pet source because it fits ones own beliefs doesn't qualify it as truth.

I haven't formed an opinion on global warming yet, but I do have an opinion about pollution for profit. I view it as a criminal act. It is like a tresspasser vandalizing your property, but not having any way to punish the culprit.

I hope the Czechs toss the above piece of driftwood out on his ass in their next elections.

Jimmie

[Tom]

I like birds, too, and I do not advocate wanton polluting or anything like that.
I also do not advocate putting lesser species above mankind, the ultimate life form on this planet.

The polar bears were once grizzly bears who adapted to the cold north. that's what species do - they adapt. Protecting a species that has doubled in size recently just to play politics over what will be safe, clean drilling is absurd. Tree huggers are already wrecking economies all over the world.

Man is part of nature, so if we are the fittest, shouldn't we prevail?

[Cangamble]

Actually, there have been around 3 or 4 great extinction periods that have occurred during the earth's history (none of those had to do with man screwing up the environment). We are most probably in the newest extinction period.
It is hard to say how quickly the majority of species got wiped out during an extinction phase, but in my opinion, it would probably vary from species to species and ecosystem to ecosystem.
As far as Global Warming goes, I believe it is a fact that the earth is getting slightly warmer. Whether it is completely natural or partly man made, I don't know, and I don't think scientists know at this time.

[Tom]

Exactly.
And so far, no one has told me what the optimal global temperature is, and how did they come up with that?

[OTM Al]

I guess the question then comes down to what is a wanton act. For example, is it a wanton act to gather the energy we need to not just survive, but lead a quality existance? Well, anyone but a radical would say no. But is it a wanton act to potentially destroy something just so we can power our second SUVs and be able to have our 5th television set? Or to continue in such endevors when we should have the intelligence and ability to do things in a way that we don't need so much of those petrochemicals and still be able to have the things we do? Those to me are the real questions here. TV commercials bragging about how such and such a car can get 25 miles per gallon when better was possible 60 years ago make me pretty angry. Is the total lack of progress here wanton?

The near destruction of the kakopo was not intentional. No mammal lived in New Zealand before the comming of Europeans. Birds had adapted into the traditional roles of mammals in other places. The kakapo's only preditor was eagles. Their defense when they sensed danger was to stop moving and blend into the environment so they couldn't be seen from above. When the Europeans came they brought ferrets and cats with them, which were able to escape and go feral. The kakapo became an easy target. Many other ground dwelling species were completely wiped out. The point here is that even acts that are not wanton can have dire consequences.

A second case in point is the hyacinth macaw. Part of its problem is the cutting of its environment for ranches. They actually managed to adapt to this pretty well. One of the nuts that make up much of their diets, the palm nut I believe, is very hard. The birds dicovered though they were much easier to eat after having been partially digested by the cattle. Birds are kind of disgusting in that way. I know having to clean up after mine. What got them though was trapping them to sell as pets, now illegal as only birds bred in captivity are legal to be sold in the US, and killing them for their feathers for souveniers for tourists. Did these people really need this stuff? They will eventually only exist in captivity more than likely. Wanton acts?

Man is predominant on the planet, no doubt, but we didn't just wipe out whichever species had our roles before us and then fit in to the spot and exist with what was around us. We've taken a whole lot more down. We have prevailed, but does that mean we should leave scorched earth in our wakes? I think we should be and are smarter than that. We do need to use things in our enviroments, but we should also be replacing them and doing our best not to just use them up just because we can. Bad things can still happen, but shouldn't we hold ourselves accountable when those things happen from sheer thoughtlessness?

[Tom]

We replace tons of things - trees come to mind.
We have done many things to clean up pollution and prevent futher damge.
I am not supporting stunnting our growth som etree huggers don't want to drill for oil in Alaska. There is no reason notto, and there is no reason not to have nuclear power plants. Most of the crap the tree huggers spew is a lie. If there is something we can do to ake them extinct, I'm all for that.

Now, excuse me, but my spotted owl is ready to come off the grill. If you baste it with whale blubber, it is just so delicous! :bang:

[wonatthewire1]

Speech at the National Press Club - I'm sure you can find it all over the Internet if you look - probably on YouTube also.


...why should I look when you've copied and pasted from another source?

Unless, of course, your a transcriber, and was typing it up as you were listening to it....that could be it, right?

They (as I have relatives from the Czech Republic) have rather thick accents, I commend you on your ability to transcribe from the live broadcast!

:D

[wonatthewire1]

We replace tons of things - trees come to mind.
We have done many things to clean up pollution and prevent futher damge.
I am not supporting stunnting our growth som etree huggers don't want to drill for oil in Alaska. There is no reason notto, and there is no reason not to have nuclear power plants. Most of the crap the tree huggers spew is a lie. If there is something we can do to ake them extinct, I'm all for that.

Now, excuse me, but my spotted owl is ready to come off the grill. If you baste it with whale blubber, it is just so delicous! :bang:


I remember when Lake Erie used to catch on fire back in the '70's! :eek:

[Tom]

I remember when Lake Erie used to catch on fire back in the '70's! :eek: I remember that well....:lol:

[JustRalph]

It was actually the Cuyohoga river just south of the Lake. You know, Dennis Kucinich's district.......... :lol: Here is a pic

http://www.stormwaterelkco.org/pictures/large/00148-CuyahogaFrandAc06-lg.jpg

[Steve 'StatMan']

It was actually the Cuyohoga river just south of the Lake. You know, Dennis Kucinich's district.......... :lol:

Oh. Must have been either the fumes or the water, then.

[boxcar]

Far as Klaus goes , know nothing about the guy.
he could be a martian for all the say he has on anything as far as i can see.

Not sure why the opinion of this non american should be taken anymore seriously than any of the many foreign leaders who are regularly excoriated on the site.

Not sure why, eh? How about because he has firsthand knowledge of what living under totalitarian rule is all about?

Boxcar

[wonatthewire1]

It was actually the Cuyohoga river just south of the Lake. You know, Dennis Kucinich's district.......... :lol: Here is a pic

http://www.stormwaterelkco.org/pictures/large/00148-CuyahogaFrandAc06-lg.jpg


Thanks for the update!

I also remember being about 12 or so (1971) and we were driving around Gary, IN on the way to Madison, WI and seeing the smoke hanging over the city.

When we were kids visiting my Mom's Mom in Pittsburgh, they would have pollution alerts and we'd have to stay inside