Big Brown Press Conference Today

[TravisVOX]

John Pricci on Capital OTB said this morning that Big Brown developed a quarter crack and that a press conference is being held as we speak. The word is it does not necessarily hinder his chances of making the Belmont Stakes, but is obviously not ideal.

[BombsAway Bob]

Aaargh!

[Cangamble]

I hate saying I told you so.... Ok, I don't really hate saying it.

[Tom]

Dutrow said yesterday afternoon that BB was fine, when asked about the quarter crack, and asked "Where does this stuff come from?" :confused:

[DJofSD]

"A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!". - (King Richard III, Act V, Scene IV).

[classhandicapper]

Any news on this?

Has it been verified?

I see nothing on the wires yet!

[mannyberrios]

Dutrow said yesterday afternoon that BB was fine, when asked about the quarter crack, and asked "Where does this stuff come from?" :confused:Yes! Where is this stuff coming from? I pray that there is nothing wong with BB.

[joanied]

:( OhGeeze:eek: I can't find anything else about this quarter crack rumor...I gotta beleive Dutrow's quote about 'where do these things come from' and hope it is just a rumor...
please, BB...be OK!!!

[Cangamble]

Big Brown's slight hoof injury shouldn't derail Triple bid

By Associated Press12:33 PM EDT, May 25, 2008

http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/trb.newsday/sports/natworld/wire;ptype=s;slug=sns-ap-rac-belmont-big-brown;rg=ur;ref=googlecom;pos=1;sz=88x31;tile=2;or d=72006998? (http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/trb.newsday/sports/natworld/wire;ptype=s;slug=sns-ap-rac-belmont-big-brown;rg=ur;ref=googlecom;pos=1;sz=88x31;tile=2;or d=72006998?)

NEW YORK - Triple Crown contender Big Brown (http://www.newsday.com/topic/sports/horse-harness-racing/big-brown-NY050920088364.topic) has missed two days of training with a slight injury to his left front foot that has trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. concerned about the colt's status for the Belmont Stakes (http://www.newsday.com/topic/sports/horse-harness-racing/belmont-stakes-NY0509200820.topic) in less than two weeks.

"We're all concerned with a big race coming up, but it's better that it happened now," a subdued Dutrow said Sunday. "It's not going to be an issue. It's bad that it happened, but we're going to be able to fix him up."

The injury was detected by Dutrow on Friday, and the trainer summoned hoof specialist Ian McKinlay, who treated the Kentucky Derby (http://www.newsday.com/topic/sports/horse-harness-racing/kentucky-derby-EVSPR000019.topic) and Preakness (http://www.newsday.com/topic/sports/horse-harness-racing/preakness-stakes-EVSPR000062.topic) winner for more serious front foot issues late last year.

McKinlay says he will have a better idea Monday when Big Brown can return to training after treating the injury with an iodine and alcohol solution and repairing the injury he's calling a slight quartercrack. He says it's not serious and should not prevent Big Brown from attempting to win the Belmont on June 7 and become the first Triple Crown champion since Affirmed in 1978.

[joanied]

John Pricci on Capital OTB said this morning that Big Brown developed a quarter crack and that a press conference is being held as we speak. The word is it does not necessarily hinder his chances of making the Belmont Stakes, but is obviously not ideal.

Here is the latest story;
http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/article/45398.htm

If Dutrow isn't :jump: worried about this...then niether will I...at least for the time being!!

[46zilzal]

Canonero had thrush, Majestic Prince was beginning to go lame........another chapter in how much these races take out of all colts.

[Shenanigans]

Canonero had thrush, Majestic Prince was beginning to go lame........another chapter in how much these races take out of all colts.

Thrush is a lot easier to take care of and get rid of than quarter cracks.
There are a lot of Derby winners that "began to go lame" after the Derby. BB had hoof problems before the Derby. What's your point?

[sandpit]

Not sure what this is worth, but heard this, and I'm paraphrasing, from Simon Bray on TVG earlier today: I was around Cigar quite a bit, and something that many people didn't know is that during his 16 race winning streak, he had quarter cracks in 14 of those races, and was usually patched up within 48 hours of each race.

[Cangamble]

Not sure what this is worth, but heard this, and I'm paraphrasing, from Simon Bray on TVG earlier today: I was around Cigar quite a bit, and something that many people didn't know is that during his 16 race winning streak, he had quarter cracks in 14 of those races, and was usually patched up within 48 hours of each race.
Yeah, but Cigar wasn't an undefeated horse who is a race or two away from stud.
Like I said before, the Belmont has been a graveyard for many Derby/Preakness winners regardless of physical ailments. Big Brown's total worth as a stud will not go up much, if at all, if he wins the Belmont.
But if he loses any race, he can only clobber his value.

[slewis]

Yeah, but Cigar wasn't an undefeated horse who is a race or two away from stud.
Like I said before, the Belmont has been a graveyard for many Derby/Preakness winners regardless of physical ailments. Big Brown's total worth as a stud will not go up much, if at all, if he wins the Belmont.
But if he loses any race, he can only clobber his value.

Respectfully,

If your talking the breeding game, think like a breeder and not like a handicapper.
His stud value will change only slightly (if at all) should he lose any races.

Breeders will be looking at his PEDIGREE and not issues that lead to failure.
I know I'm looking at whether my mare is a good cross for his lines, and what I'm trying to accomplish, not whether he loses the Belmont.
As long as I know what he accomplished and what he was capable of, I'm comfortable. Of course if the Manager is asking more for his service then I could get with another stallion, that's a different story, but the Belmont outcome would have little effect on my decision (and most others too).

[ryesteve]

Breeders will be looking at his PEDIGREE and not issues that lead to failure.
Isn't that a large part of the problem? That they don't look at the "issues"? Personally, I don't care what his pedigree is... I think it'd be nuts to spend a fortune to breed to a horse who couldn't even jog without constantly cracking his hooves.

[matthewsiv]

Isn't that a large part of the problem? That they don't look at the "issues"? Personally, I don't care what his pedigree is... I think it'd be nuts to spend a fortune to breed to a horse who couldn't even jog without constantly cracking his hooves.

Absolutely right.

[slewis]

Isn't that a large part of the problem? That they don't look at the "issues"? Personally, I don't care what his pedigree is... I think it'd be nuts to spend a fortune to breed to a horse who couldn't even jog without constantly cracking his hooves.

No, it is NOT a LARGE part of (what) problem????

As I posted previously.. MINESHAFT had hoof issues FAR worse the BB and had a successful racing career in the USA. He has been a disappointment thus far at stud..but the few offspring I've seen have no fiberglass patches or glue on shoes and I'd bet if you could call every trainer who has one of his offspring you would find no differential in his progeny's foot issues and what the industry avg might be. Is it impossible that BB's progeny would have NO hoof issues? Of course not, but if I could breed to him and produce a runner like him, I'd deal with the tender feet, and guess what?.........
There would be a line from Belmont to Gulfstream Park to breed to him too, foot issues and all!!!!

[race]

Isn't that a large part of the problem? That they don't look at the "issues"? Personally, I don't care what his pedigree is... I think it'd be nuts to spend a fortune to breed to a horse who couldn't even jog without constantly cracking his hooves.

I agree with you. More breeders need to start looking at the issues.

[ryesteve]

No, it is NOT a LARGE part of (what) problem????
Apparently you're disagreeing with me while simultaneously saying you don't know what I'm referring to. Good job! :ThmbUp:

[jognlope]

Oh goody he just said he wants BB in Travers, uh oh that means a certian match up I'm afraid of!! For Curlin!!!

[Tom]

Respectfully,

If your talking the breeding game, think like a breeder and not like a handicapper.
His stud value will change only slightly (if at all) should he lose any races.



Wouldn't winning the triple crown enhance his value? I can see his vaule not dropping much if he loses, but I would think a win would be worth more?

Thanks

[slewis]

Apparently you're disagreeing with me while simultaneously saying you don't know what I'm referring to. Good job! :ThmbUp:

I'll go SLOWER for you..... It's not a pprrrroobbbbllleeemmmmmm.

Understand??:ThmbUp: :ThmbDown: ?

I don't know whether you have ever bred anything let alone a racehorse and I'm not an expert (if there is such a thing since this is not a precise science).
I personally have tried to learn from people who have succeeded, did tons of reading, and asked lots of questions, (and will continue to). It's probably a lifetime thing.
I've bred less then a dozen (my first won the 4th race at Belmont on Wed, I had to get that in) but I would book a hypothetical bet in a second.......
If you TRIED to breed a racehorse who was prone to quarter cracks or similar issues without knowing the history of BOTH families (sire and Dam), and ALL SIBLINGS, I'd bet your amount you couldn't and you wouln't want to make that bet.
One parent's small issues do not necessarily get passed on genetically with any great frequency. When it becomes a recurring problem, the breeder will stop.
You are dealing with hundred's and hundred's of years of genetics here.
It's the reason why Freud is NOT Giant's Causeway and Aristocrat is NOT Ghostzapper... and so on and so on......AND ...they are FULL Brothers.
I think many on this forum who have posted on breeding after the tragedy of Eight Belles are WAY off base and should read much more into this "imprecise science" before suggesting the industry completely change it's breeding history.

[jma]

Oh goody he just said he wants BB in Travers, uh oh that means a certian match up I'm afraid of!! For Curlin!!!

The Travers is for 3-year-olds, so no Curlin. I doubt you'll see Big Brown there either, but definitely no Curlin.

[joanied]

I'll go SLOWER for you..... It's not a pprrrroobbbbllleeemmmmmm.

Understand??:ThmbUp: :ThmbDown: ?

I don't know whether you have ever bred anything let alone a racehorse and I'm not an expert (if there is such a thing since this is not a precise science).
I personally have tried to learn from people who have succeeded, did tons of reading, and asked lots of questions, (and will continue to). It's probably a lifetime thing.
I've bred less then a dozen (my first won the 4th race at Belmont on Wed, I had to get that in) but I would book a hypothetical bet in a second.......
If you TRIED to breed a racehorse who was prone to quarter cracks or similar issues without knowing the history of BOTH families (sire and Dam), and ALL SIBLINGS, I'd bet your amount you couldn't and you wouln't want to make that bet.
One parent's small issues do not necessarily get passed on genetically with any great frequency. When it becomes a recurring problem, the breeder will stop.
You are dealing with hundred's and hundred's of years of genetics here.
It's the reason why Freud is NOT Giant's Causeway and Aristocrat is NOT Ghostzapper... and so on and so on......AND ...they are FULL Brothers.
I think many on this forum who have posted on breeding after the tragedy of Eight Belles are WAY off base and should read much more into this "imprecise science" before suggesting the industry completely change it's breeding history.

Just want to jump:eek: in here for a minute guys...I posted somewhere about this breeding to BB thing...
Slewis is right about the fact breeding is not exact...never will be, and prooves the point in his mention of full brothers....there are so many full siblings that turn out like night and day....just like with human twins, one may become president, the other a convict.
What I mentioned is if a person wants to send a mare to BB, and takes into consideration BB"s feet, then that mare owner better send a mare that has herself, and in her offspring, excellent feet & bone...if BB has 100 babies hit the ground, I would suggest that less than half would inherit his bad feet, especialy when bred to mares with excellent feet...so IMO, if a guy has a mare that 'nicks' well with BB's pedigree, then they should go for it, unless that mare, and a lot of horses in her pedigree, have had bad feet.
Ya just never know!!

[Cangamble]

Let me try again
sx5gU1K7KtQ

[joanied]

Great video, cangamble...thankfully this latest qc that BB has is supposed to be very small...

[NoDayJob]

Barge Cement... It's guaranteed!

[46zilzal]

Barge Cement... It's guaranteed!
Barge is flexible. Wouldn't work here.

[NoDayJob]

Hoof specialist Ian McKinlay opened the slight quarter crack Monday and inserted stainless steel wire stitches to draw the crack together. The 10-minute procedure went smoothly, McKinlay said, and Big Brown was walked around the barn and returned to his stall, where he has been since the injury was discovered Friday.

"Basically we've done what we can right now," McKinlay said. "It might be 48 hours before we see the full result of stabilizing the quarter."

McKinlay and trainer Rick Dutrow Jr. were optimistic Big Brown would resume training later in the week, and stay on course for his attempt to become the first Triple Crown champion since Affirmed in 1978.

McKinlay will return to Belmont Park on Wednesday to examine the hoof, then likely clean out the area, replace the stitch to just "snug up the crack" and then cover it with adhesive. The next step would be to place a fiberglass reinforced patch on the crack, "one that is probably stronger than the hoof wall." McKinlay said.

Dutrow said the break in training will not affect how his Kentucky Derby and Preakness winner runs in the 1 1/2-mile Belmont on June 7.

"It's just a little hiccup on the way over there," Dutrow said. "That's all it i. The time that he has missed means nothing to me or him."

If all goes well, Big Brown could gallop Wednesday and keep training up to a final workout five days before the Belmont, weather permitting.

"As long as we get one breeze in him that's all I was looking for," Dutrow said. "I'll play it safe tomorrow. The most we'll do is ride him around the shedrow. I want Ian to look at him Wednesday, and if he says 'go' that's exactly what we're going to do. If he says give him a couple more days, that's what we'll do."

McKinlay has repaired injuries much more severe before big races, allowing Touch Gold to fight off a leg injury from the 1997 Preakness and go on to win the Belmont and spoil Silver Charm's Triple try.

A quarter crack is a vertical crack in the hoof wall between the toe and heel of the hoof, usually extending into the coronary band, where the hoof meets the skin of the leg.

For the most part, the injury is fairly common and not considered serious. Healing time can range from a few days to a few months, depending on the severity of the crack.

[Shenanigans]

Great video Cangamble. Very educating. Ian is a geneous at fixing them. The only thing though is the small fact that BB was wearing the Yasha shoes and it still didn't hold his feet together. \
Did anyone take note to Ian mentioning heredity is an issue for bad feet? I agree with him. But, I have heard of and witnessed "bad" farriers (that are used by good trainers) rasping too much hoof wall off. That will weaken a hoof fast.

[joanied]

If they'd pull shoes and let horses go barefoot for a while...especially during a layup...they'd be better off all around.
IMO :)

[Shenanigans]

If they'd pull shoes and let horses go barefoot for a while...especially during a layup...they'd be better off all around.
IMO :)

Yeah, but how often do horses get layups?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Yeah, but Cigar wasn't an undefeated horse who is a race or two away from stud.
Like I said before, the Belmont has been a graveyard for many Derby/Preakness winners regardless of physical ailments. Big Brown's total worth as a stud will not go up much, if at all, if he wins the Belmont.
But if he loses any race, he can only clobber his value.


I think you are very wrong not thinking his stud fee wont go up if he wins the TC..Also dont forget he did win the derby and that speaks mountains for him no matter who was in it..For a guy who blogs on J Morrision with your opinions,I feel you have some kind of vendetta on everything horseracing has to offer.Keeping up with all the bad things that go on I have hardly ever seen you praise anything about this game. For being a horseowner,Im sure your comments would hurt if you were in these shoes.!!!

[Cangamble]

I think you are very wrong not thinking his stud fee wont go up if he wins the TC..Also dont forget he did win the derby and that speaks mountains for him no matter who was in it..For a guy who blogs on J Morrision with your opinions,I feel you have some kind of vendetta on everything horseracing has to offer.Keeping up with all the bad things that go on I have hardly ever seen you praise anything about this game. For being a horseowner,Im sure your comments would hurt if you were in these shoes.!!!
You couldn't be more wrong about me.
I blog about the bad, because nobody else seems to want to constantly criticize the industry.
I let the bad out, because it is the only way things will change for the good.
If you notice, on my blog I say what is wrong BUT I ALSO OFFER SOLUTIONS.

[joanied]

Yeah, but how often do horses get layups?

That's not important...what I am saying is that a horse going barefoot for at least a few months would be a huge help for these bad footed horses...and if a horse has bad feet, should he be racing...and I am not referring to BB here... just horses in general.
They start putting shoes on TB's when they are yearlings...and it's not necessary...let them go barefoot until they HAVE to wear shoes and alot of these problems would stay at bay...at least for the most part, and that would have to be a benefit.
Barefoot hooves grow faster and stay healthy better and longer. I know this from experience.
:) :) :)

[Shenanigans]

That's not important...what I am saying is that a horse going barefoot for at least a few months would be a huge help for these bad footed horses...and if a horse has bad feet, should he be racing...and I am not referring to BB here... just horses in general.
They start putting shoes on TB's when they are yearlings...and it's not necessary...let them go barefoot until they HAVE to wear shoes and alot of these problems would stay at bay...at least for the most part, and that would have to be a benefit.
Barefoot hooves grow faster and stay healthy better and longer. I know this from experience.
:) :) :)

Laying up a horse is too, important. What I am pointing out is that it is not done that much anymore.
Pulling shoes off a bad footed horse is not the answer. If that is the case, then why are horses that are sent to stud still wearing shoes, especially the bad footed ones? The shoes are not what cause the problem. Genetics or bad shoeing are the cause. I have seen people take your approach and idea, pull shoes off their bad footed horse and end up with a horse that is extremely lame. You can't just pull shoes off a horse that has had them for more than half its life and expect it to do just fine.
Yearlings that go to the sales are more often to get shoes than the ones that don't. With all the walking that is done and the footing that is at most of the sales, if front shoes aren't put on, you'll end up with a tender footed yearling that buyers are thinking it's lame from something else. When I broke yearlings, most of them didn't have shoes, unless they came from a sale. The shoeless ones became tender footed within a few weeks of galloping on the track. Just like Ian McKinley stated in that video, thoroughbreds are somewhat fragile footed. Pulling shoes off horses with the hoof conditions like BB is asking for major trouble.

[ryesteve]

I'm not an expert
Thanks...

[jognlope]

The horse sure has nice manners.

[joanied]

Laying up a horse is too, important. What I am pointing out is that it is not done that much anymore.
Pulling shoes off a bad footed horse is not the answer. If that is the case, then why are horses that are sent to stud still wearing shoes, especially the bad footed ones? The shoes are not what cause the problem. Genetics or bad shoeing are the cause. I have seen people take your approach and idea, pull shoes off their bad footed horse and end up with a horse that is extremely lame. You can't just pull shoes off a horse that has had them for more than half its life and expect it to do just fine.
Yearlings that go to the sales are more often to get shoes than the ones that don't. With all the walking that is done and the footing that is at most of the sales, if front shoes aren't put on, you'll end up with a tender footed yearling that buyers are thinking it's lame from something else. When I broke yearlings, most of them didn't have shoes, unless they came from a sale. The shoeless ones became tender footed within a few weeks of galloping on the track. Just like Ian McKinley stated in that video, thoroughbreds are somewhat fragile footed. Pulling shoes off horses with the hoof conditions like BB is asking for major trouble.

Geeze...of course laying up a horse is important...and more trainers need to do it....but you are stuck on that part of my post when I was simply using layup as an example of a good time to pull shoes.
And, not to get into another long winded post...I know all the things you pointed out, and they are good points, and fairly obvious ones. If they have been wearing shoes most of their life, well, yes, maybe pulling them would cause a problem...if they are on hard ground...but on pasture or on dirt/sand, they'd be fine...I know because I have seen it done with success.
All I was saying is that a lot of bad feet might be eliminated if TB's didn't start wearing shoes as yearlings, and that they would benefit from going barefoot as often as possible...I disagree that going barefoot will not help a bad footed horse....it's easier and faster to grow out a hoof without shoes on.
There are probably a lot of bad farrier's, but it's also the good ones that can ruin a foot by rasping down too much, ect ect ect...and I agree bad feet can be hereditary (one reason I always bred my mares to a really good footed stallion). My point is simple, Shennigans...leaving young TB's feet bare for as long as possible is a good thing.
And I never said I think they should pull the shoes off of Big Brown...in fact, I beleive I said I was not even referring to him.
Tah-Dah:)

[joanied]

here's a link to a survey done by the (Blood Horse) "The Horse" magazine (it's all health issues) that I thought you guys might enjoy looking at...complete with voter opinions...some of which are quite telling.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/polls/PollPro.asp?GUID={4C636E79-2BF0-4731-915C-CDEC850E5028}&Task=Results&PollID=331&URL=&LinkText=thehorse%2Ecom&BarImage=