Welcome New Advertiser - Drawing Away Racing Stable

[PaceAdvantage]

Drawing Away Racing Stable is now an authorized advertiser on PaceAdvantage.com

Please visit their website at http://www.drawingawaystable.com

[garyscpa]

I love where they have the FAQ, but they have no answers! :D

[JBmadera]

I like a couple of their horses and I like the way they structure their program. Way back I owned a number of horses and they all ended up being constant cash drains - with Drawing Away it looks like a one shot fee.JB

[BillW]

I love where they have the FAQ, but they have no answers! :D

My guess would be that their website is under construction.

[usafsso]

But how do they cover the operating costs. I'm guessing they take a bigger cut of the winings.

[lamboguy]

the guy they have training, David Jacobson, wins alot of races, seems llike he is no stranger to the winners circle.

is he related to a trainer years ago Buddy Jacobson, the guy that got ruled off for life by any chance?

[JWBurnie]

3.KNOW WHAT YOU ARE BUYING
DRAWING AWAY STABLE HAS CLAIMED 10 HORSES AND WILL BE CLAIMING MANY MORE. THIS ALLOWS THE PARTNERS TO KNOW THE HORSE THEY ARE CLAIMING AS WELL AS SEE HOW THE HORSE RAN IN THE RACE HE WAS CLAIMED FROM.r /> IT ALSO ALLOWS DAVE JACOBSON TO GET HANDS ON LOOK AT THE HORSES AND ASCERTAIN WHERE THEY SHOULD BE RACED.
THIS OFFER IS UNMATCHED BY ANY OTHER PARTNERSHIP



How is this unmatched? What separates DAS from other partnerships?



Are the partners involved in the pre-claim selection process?



What distance/age runners does Jacobson focus his claims on?



I wish you the best of luck. A well run partnership promotes horseracing as well as anything I can think of in the game. Hope to see you in the circle soon & often.

[beenacoach]

I too like some things I see with this outfit but there are Soooo many questions unanswered so far. My worry is that even breaking even owning race horses is so difficult that adding in another layer of expense (managing partner and office staff and web site maintenance etc. etc.) simply makes the task more onerous.

Another problem is that in order to make the involvement affordable for most they break down the shares to very small percentages and involve a LOT of people on one horse. This makes meaningful input from any one owner difficult and agreement on what horse to claim and what to do with him thereafter nearly impossible. So in effect most of the investors are simply paying for the thrill of thinking they are involved. A $2.00 win ticket is as effective and much more likely to yeild a profit.

Just my opinions in general on this form of ownership. I know of a coupleof small time companies that are avoiding some of these problems to date but as they grow I am afraid that will change.

That being said, I will continue to look into each of these companies as I become aware of them in the hopes that one will prove me wrong. Until then, I will keep my involvement to horses I can own outright or with one or two partners.

[ryesteve]

Another problem is that in order to make the involvement affordable for most they break down the shares to very small percentages and involve a LOT of people on one horse. Compared to other partnerships, 10% isn't "very small" at all. Heck, Karakorum lets people in for as little as one half of 1%.

[beenacoach]

Yes, many partnerships break it down much smaller than 10% but my post was speaking about the common partnership companies I have looked at and not this one specifically. Early in the post I indicated that there were a lot of questions unanswered at this point as their web site is not complete. I think I will call them today and get the lay of the land.

Mike

[ryesteve]

I indicated that there were a lot of questions unanswered Agreed... the most basic question being, how much do they book in expenses and fees? Yes, it's nice knowing you will incur no future payments, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to see all the purse money disappear via accounting magic.

[beenacoach]

Exactly.

Most of the partnerships I have seen take 65% of the purse money. 60% to the trainer and 5% for administrative fees. The owners then split the remaining 35%. At that rate the horse needs to be pretty successful to show any ROI unless you get lucky enough to have the horse claimed at some point for as much, or more, than it was claimed for.

Another thing to look for, is that some of the partnerships take a percentage of what the horse is sold for when it is claimed or sold. So if you pay an extra 10% of the claim price (this money is generally used for administrative expenses and training expenses incurred prior to the first start of the claimed horse for the new barn) and then pay another 10% of whatever the horse sells for when it is claimed or sold.....it all starts adding up to make it tough to break even, let alone make any ROI.

[beenacoach]

A little update after talking to someone at Drawing Away Racing Stable.

Claim price is marked up 10%. So if you buy 10% of a 50K claimer it costs you $5,500.00

NO other expenses ever.

Trainer/Stable retain 65% or purse money earned and partners split the other 35%

When a horse is sold/claimed, the partners get 100% of the anything up to the original claim price. Anything over that, the Trainer/stable retain 33% of.

So if you invest in 10% of a 50K claimer and the horse is claimed away from you for $62,500 you get get back 10% of the first 50K and then 10% of $8,333.33 plus your 10% of the 35% owners share of any purse money the horse has made while you were involved with it.

The win percentage and in the money percentage for Dave Jacobson cited on the web page are his percentages for this year.

Hope this helps.

[Dave Schwartz]

This is certainly a different approach than what I have heard of in the past. I was under the impression that monthly upkeep was generally part of the deal.

This makes it sound like the partnership does not pay for that.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[beenacoach]

More and more of the partnership deals are going to no monthly bills like this. It limits the exposer of the investor. All they can lose is the money they initially put in and they only lose all of that if the horse has to be put down or becomes so uncompetitive that he is given away of sold for peanuts. In that way it is good for the investor.

On the other hand it is very good for the trainer if he is able to pick good horses as he gets 65% (or 60% if the managing partner gets 5%) of the purse money without having to put out any of his own money to get the horse. Plus, the 10% extra up front amounts to several thousand dollars which covers his expenses for at least a comple of months or more even if the horse doesnt collect any purse money at all.

On a 50K claimer the trainer has a horse that he picked and makes all the decisions for and 5K up front to work with and then gets the lions share of any purse money.

The whole thing is very interesting. I personally prefer to have some input into what happens with my horse and so I am not sure if I will ever go with something like this or not yet. Right now I like the deal I have with the one claimer I own but I may well try something like this after I watch how it works out for a little while.

[Javagold]

i never understand these "partnerships" ....unless you just want to tell your buddies you "own a racehorse" .....the chances of making money this way are slim and none....if you want to own a racehorse , claim one yourself and be in control of your decisions and the horse or dont bother wasting your money $$$$

[beenacoach]

On the other hand it is entertainment money and if one wants to spend it on owning a piece of a horse while limiting his financial exposure....why not?
Probably no more foolish than buying season tickets to a sporting event or similar expenditures and can be tax deductable too if done right.

Doing it with a solid trainer and claiming horses that have proven themselves is the surest way to break even or make some money for the average joe in my opinion. Especially if you are in the NY area so you can get out to see "your horse" run. If not I know of one in CA that is a little better deal financially if one is in that area.

Also in my opinion, this particular stable is probably one of the better ones to look at given the trainer that is involved.

[ryesteve]

the chances of making money this way are slim and noneYou can say the same thing to people who own 100% of their horses.

[Kelso]

Beenacoach,
Did you learn if the horse into which one would be buying has already been claimed by Drawing Away ... allowing one can to perform a little due diligence on the animal ... or does one put up $5,500 toward whatever next horse they successfully claim?

Thank you.

[beenacoach]

They do not ask you to invest in any horse without knowing what horse. If you choose to you can tell them what you are looking to get involved with and they will contact you when they are considering claiming a horse that fits your description. They will tell you when the horse is running a day or two ahead of time and then you can opt in prior to the race and if they are successful in making the claim you are in.

You can also choose to buy a piece of a horse they have already claimed providing it has not sold out yet. They currently have several that they have claimed that there are still shares available to.

In the first scenerio I listed in this post, you can choose to not opt in but watch the race and opt in after the race or later IF there are still shares available. The person I talked to said that sometimes all shares are sold prior to the claim and sometimes not so if you choose to wait until after the race or later you just take your chances on getting a share.

He also indicated that the horses that they currently have shares available to and are racing can be bought into at any time. You can even choose to purchase a share in a horse that they have entered in a race but in order to share in any purse money from that race you need to lock up the share prior to the race.

Hope I have managed to make all of that clear.

If one is going to get into a partnership of this type, with the extra costs involved, this does not soud like too bad a way to go.

I like the deal I have now but if I can not get that kind of deal in the future I may opt for something like this.

[Kelso]

Hope I have managed to make all of that clear.
Thanks very much, Coach. Very clear and complete.

[GARY Z]

NY: average annual cost is about 36,000 .

If the GP/manager is absorbing that cost, and a serious injury
occurs to the claimed horse(say a 10k claimer) how long do you believe
those expenses will be absorbed by the GP?

Same theory would apply to a 50k claimer, and generally the limited
partners allow the GP to make the final call...

Unless you like roulette and want to run with a hot trainer, you
should consider owning your own , or sharing the risk with a couple
of friends understanding the risks associated with ownership

[ryesteve]

If the GP/manager is absorbing that cost, and a serious injury
occurs to the claimed horse(say a 10k claimer) how long do you believe
those expenses will be absorbed by the GP?If the sales contract states that no further payments are required, what recourse would they have??

[beenacoach]

That is a legitamet question but I think that thery 36K figure might be a bit inflated.

An injured horse that is going to be laid up for any significant length of time us normally sent to a farm off track where the expenses are significantly lower. I don't know for sure about in NY but in other states horses can be laid up for as little as $230.00 a month if all they need is rest and not significant amounts of medical/intensive care.

The scenerio you describe is actually the arguement for getting into a partnership deal and NOT owning in the manner you suggest as your exposer is limite to your intitial investment in a partnership. If this scenerio played out the trainer/general partner suffer the expenses and not you. If the horse dies or is never able to race again it is their worry as to what to do with it and not yours. All you stand to lose is your initial investment and you should go into it thinking that money is basically gone anyway and any return you get, other than enjoyment/entertainment, is a bonus.

I personally prefer outright ownership or a limited numbber of partners combined with a profit sharing arrangement with the trainer and I have been able to find that with my current horse. If I can not find that in the future I will most likely go with a partnership deal of some kind.

If there are people in here interested in a limited number of partners in a horse with no added expense of paying for a general partner I would certainly be interested in talking to them about such an arrangement.

[beenacoach]

I did not think to ask that specific question but I can assure you that there would be something in the contract that gives the general partner the ability to disopose of the horse in some way in that kind of a situation. The general partner and trainer are not going to absorb expenses indefinitely on a horse that can no longer pay its own way.

In the discussions I have had with trainers about taking a horse on a percentage that is always one of the things that has to be addressed. If the trainer indicates that the horse is in need of a long lay up or is all done running it is understood that I will get the horse out of their barn in fairly short order.


That is only fair and it would be the same in one of these partnership deals. The general partner would have to deal with it and whatever he could sell the horse for would go to the partners and if he horse could not be sold the partners would lose all of their initial investment (I am sure the horse would be given to Cantor or one of the other people/organizations out there doing this kind of work).

[Tom Barrister]

the guy they have training, David Jacobson, wins alot of races, seems llike he is no stranger to the winners circle.

is he related to a trainer years ago Buddy Jacobson, the guy that got ruled off for life by any chance?

Yes. Dave is Buddy's son.

Buddy Jacobsen, for those who don't remember, was one of the leading trainers in the 1960's, and was convicted of murder in 1980 and sent to prison, where he died in 1989.

Dave, who worked for Buddy's protege Bobby Frankel in the 1970's and then for his father when the latter's problems started, was suspended (and possibly wrongly) for animal cruelty in ( I think) 1981 and left the racing game that year or early 1982. He returned last year.

The arrangement an investor is getting is probably similar to that of a lessor. In other words, the organization, in principle, leases the horse from the investors. Naturally they get a much higher percentage of the horse's earnings. What percentage that is and other particulars can best be answered by Drawing Away Racing Stable.

[beenacoach]

I have already spoken to them and the numbers I have posted here are the numbers quoted to me. I would not have posted them if they were not.

[Tom Barrister]

I have already spoken to them and the numbers I have posted here are the numbers quoted to me. I would not have posted them if they were not.

I don't doubt it. What does that have to do with what I said?

If they're taking 65%, then it's a fairly standard lessee arrangement (at least from what I know of such arrangements). Trainers whose owners pay the bills certainly don't get 65% of the purse.

[beenacoach]

" What percentage that is and other particulars can best be answered by Drawing Away Racing Stable."

That sentence posted after I had posted the percentages seemed to imply that my postings were not accurate. My first posts I was guessing and indicates that. After contacting them to get specifics from them I posted those numbers and stated that they were the numbers given me by Drawing Away Racing Stables. I guess I just wanted to remove any doubt that my latter postings were in fact the numbers quoted by Drawing Away.

[Tom Barrister]

" What percentage that is and other particulars can best be answered by Drawing Away Racing Stable."

That sentence posted after I had posted the percentages seemed to imply that my postings were not accurate. My first posts I was guessing and indicates that. After contacting them to get specifics from them I posted those numbers and stated that they were the numbers given me by Drawing Away Racing Stables. I guess I just wanted to remove any doubt that my latter postings were in fact the numbers quoted by Drawing Away.

Fair enough.

[Overlay]

I've heard Mike Battaglia use the phrase "drawing away" so often in his stretch calls (similar to Dave Johnson's, "And down the stretch they come!"), that I thought he might have had it copyrighted. Is he getting a cut of the action here? :D