Little Cliff almost sent to slaughter...

[Citation33]

Amazing. The horse ran 7th out of 9 at Philly Park for them and they sold him off for peanuts to the Slaughterhouse.

Here's the thing why they are worthless humans. Nick Zitos wife said she fixed what they call a "white sticker" to his Jockey Club papers(which goes with him everywhere) which states if the horse is going to be retired and can not run anymore or needs a home please call and the info is all there and they will take care of it all. These jackoffs did'nt care and sold him for nothing to die.

They easily could've called up the number and Nick Zito and his wifes foundation would've picked him up and given him a nice home.

Can not wait to see RAMON PRECIADO or LA BUZZ stable in a paddock at Belmont.

I'm not a die hard animal lover or Peta or anything like that and things go on that you can not control but the foundation clearly files papers for him for retirement when he's done and these jerkoffs KNEW IT from his papers and negated it and sold him to die. Disgusting.

Any Zito and his wife sent a "very generous" check for all his expenses and so on to the woman who saved him.

[DJofSD]

If there's a cause for PETA to champion, this is the one. The horse had people willing to take it and find a good home for it but the owners either didn't care or worse.

As much as I dislike the tactics that PETA uses, I say "go get 'em".

[HolyBull29]

Ramon Preciado and that stable are A$$HOLES! I read that article too. I can not belive they knew about his retirement plan but scraped it so they could get an extra $200 or so. These people are why racing is getting a bad name.

[Living Flame]

And no one does anything to punish them.


Someone should tell PETA or, even better, the ALF.:cool: Fry 'em.

[HolyBull29]

Totally agree. Should be BANNED form racing. Preciado is a bum.

[lilmegahertz]

I agree..banned and maybe a lawsuit against them by Zito and his wife....

[toetoe]

C'mon. Let's lambaste them, but PLEASE ! --- no more laws. We are already overlegislated, big time.

What about the knacker himself ? How many horses has he killed ? Are we talking equine hate crimes ? No, gents, it's enough that you've spread the word on these clowns. :ThmbUp:

[Shenanigans]

Can someone tell me where these slaughterhouses are? I thought all three were closed? Oh, I get it, they're shipping horses across the borders to the slaughter houses. I suppose being shipped a 1000+ miles to a slaughterhouse with no food and water and being stomped on is much better than a short ride to a slaughterhouse with only a short time before the killing.:rolleyes: These bozos that got the slaughterhouses closed in the U.S. forgot about the ones still open in Mexico and Canada so now we have our horses being packed into double decker trailers and left with no food and water for days still only to come to the same death that was banned here in the states. Does that make sense?

[FunkyMonkey]

TOeToe..,

You are just being silly...the problem is not too much legislation...the problem is that the legislation is inadequate and/or not enforced with sufficient rigor. Shame only works if you care what others think...stiff fines, jail time and/or banning them from any involvement with horses should do the trick...either way making sure that they never have the opportunity to committ the act again should be the primary rationale for the punishment handed out.

[PaceAdvantage]

Seems like a little club is forming here.....where have all you guys been (Citation, HolyBull, LivingFlame, Funky Monkey) all this time? All this ganging up on Preciado has me thinking:

How are you vocal critics so sure that Preciado didn't give the horse to someone whom he thought was going to give Little Cliff a good home, and THAT person turned around and sent the horse to the killers? How can you be so sure Preciado and LA Buzz are to blame? The Real Sports piece did not say how Little Cliff got to the slaughter house....if you have proof of what happened, please provide your source. If not, stop blaming people who may be innocent.

And as for the transport of horses to Mexico and Canada, the Real Sports piece reported that there is a bill in Congress that will ban such practices.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ramon Preciado and that stable are A$$HOLES! I read that article too. I can not belive they knew about his retirement plan but scraped it so they could get an extra $200 or so. These people are why racing is getting a bad name.What article. A quick search of Google news shows one article about Little Cliff, but nothing that mentions Preciado....

[Cangamble]

What article. A quick search of Google news shows one article about Little Cliff, but nothing that mentions Preciado....
Nothing is conclusive according to this forum who seem to have a few people who know the story from the inside:
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=143528

[FunkyMonkey]

[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]Seems like a little club is forming here.....where have all you guys been (Citation, HolyBull, LivingFlame, Funky Monkey) all this time? All this ganging up on Preciado has me thinking:

Let me just be clear so that I don't get myself entangled in an endless series of exchanges...I am not part of any club...would not want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member;)

and, as far as the accusations of guilt...my point was meant to apply to anybody who is indeed "guilty" with regard to this specific matter and all analogous similar matters...the specific individuals are irrelevant it is the actions that need addressing...finally, I was primarily responding to the somewhat silly idea (posted by Toetoe)that what we don't need is more legislation.

hope that helps.

[PaceAdvantage]

Nothing is conclusive according to this forum who seem to have a few people who know the story from the inside:
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=143528Thanks for the link. Nothing is confirmed as you say, but the circumstantial evidence is fairly damning.

[russowen77]

http://www.awionline.org/legislation/horse_slaughter/

Here is some data on the act, 100k a year is a lot of animals.

[HolyBull29]

Here's the article PaceAdv. It pops up right away after putting in Little Cliff.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2008/April/15/Little-Cliff-rescued-from-slaughter.aspx

Preciado and teh stable knew who they were selling it to. Cmon the article clearly states he is to be retired to the foundation by the "white sticker" and they just prob gave it some to old guy in a truck who said well take care of him for ya*wink* as they took like $200 bucks or so for him.

[PaceAdvantage]

Here's the article PaceAdv. It pops up right away after putting in Little Cliff.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2008/April/15/Little-Cliff-rescued-from-slaughter.aspx

Preciado and teh stable knew who they were selling it to. Cmon the article clearly states he is to be retired to the foundation by the "white sticker" and they just prob gave it some to old guy in a truck who said well take care of him for ya*wink* as they took like $200 bucks or so for him.I read the article before you posted this link, and before I stated what I did in this thread.

[HolyBull29]

Well I was just pointing out the article and that it states Preciado as the last trainer and LA Buzz as the owner.

No.1 I have worked at the backstretches at Belmont and Aqueduct. Trainers and owners know what their horse is doing and eventually where he's going(they're not dumb) because once he's gone,as an owner you do not have to pay for him anymore. As a trainer you do not have to train him anymore and you have open stall space. Funny how some trainers and owners who horses go to recuse know about it,but the ones going to slaughter they do not know about. Funny

No.2 You are not going to convince me these owners or trainers just let horse go and not know where they are going. Owner and trainer for decades and decades have been getting rid of bad horses. They knew who takes them and where they go. TRUST ME. Trainer have had bad horses dumped on them for years by owners not paying anymore. There is one solution and you get paid a few bucks two. Anyone doing it know with all the horse rescue foundations,which they ALL know about is a JERK.

Preciado and LABuzz knew from his paperwork that he had a home waiting for him and all the info was put there by Nick Zitos wife. But they gave him to a a person who took him for slaughter and payed them very little money for him.

QUESTION: Why did'nt Preciado or LA Buzz call Zito foundation for him to be picked up? The had the info and knew about the info when they got him. If the wanted him safe,why not call Zito and her foundation????

Yeah just like the trainer from Mountaineer did'nt know where that horse was going on Real Sports. Everybody and their mother said they knew about the "MEAT MAN" and that he picked up horses for slaughter and he paid you a few bucks. But somehow that trainer "did'nt know" You could tell by his reaction he did. They all do.

Preciado and Buzz knew where Cliff was going. They always do.

Zito and his wife sent a nice check for Cliffs expensives. WHERE WAS PRECIADO'S OR LA BUZZ CHECK? Hmmmmmmm would'nt wait at the mailbox for it.

[Premier Turf Club]

QUESTION: Why did'nt Preciado or LA Buzz call Zito foundation for him to be picked up? The had the info and knew about the info when they got him. If the wanted him safe,why not call Zito and her foundation????

Yeah just like the trainer from Mountaineer did'nt know where that horse was going on Real Sports. Everybody and their mother said they knew about the "MEAT MAN" and that he picked up horses for slaughter and he paid you a few bucks. But somehow that trainer "did'nt know" You could tell by his reaction he did. They all do.

Preciado and Buzz knew where Cliff was going. They always do.

Zito and his wife sent a nice check for Cliffs expensives. WHERE WAS PRECIADO'S OR LA BUZZ CHECK? Hmmmmmmm


I couldn't bear to watch the Real Sports episode. Scumbags like that should rot in hell. I only wish sometimes I could be the guy that sends them there. :mad:

Zito and his wife are class acts.

[Citation33]

What? Do not say Preciado and the LA Buzz stable knew about it without proof?
What more proof do you need? Of course they knew. Dont piss my leg and tell me it's raining.
As stated by the article and many people here,the barn knew about his retirement and they said screw it and sold him for a few sheckles to a slaughterhouse. End of story

It is true,this has been going on with bad horses since God knows when. These owners and trainers know where they are going and who the people picking them up are.

[Kelso]

These jackoffs did'nt care and sold him for nothing to die.

They easily could've called up the number and Nick Zito and his wifes foundation would've picked him up and given him a nice home.Is there much chance that LC's former connections are concerned that residual traces of one or more .. uh, substances ... might prove ... uh, embarrassing ... if discovered in the horse by a competent and caring vet who might examine him down the line?

Not a chemist, m'self; so just wondering.

[JustRalph]

Does anybody know the name of that Mountaineer Trainer?

I didn't recognize him. Although, I don't play the Mountain much.

[toetoe]

Monk of Funk,

I'll never dispute the charge of silliness (now, THAT would just be SILLY !), but I think we agree. That said, your contention that shaming only gets us so far is rye tawn. :ThmbUp:

[toetoe]

I want to come down on the side of making a buck, but a QUICK buck is not always defensible, and nor do I think the guy that bred BB is necessarily guilty of wanting that. Your honor, the charge imputes an intention supported by facts not in evidence. Incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial. :D

[Tom Barrister]

Here is a synopsis of the HBO Real Sports segment "Running for their lives"

Horses sold to Meat Men at Mountaineer (http://hooflinks.blogspot.com/2008/05/hbo-special-on-horse-slaughter.html)

The HBO Real Sports footage, saved to YouTube:

Part One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04mvw6tTHrs)


Part Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSboR03WnjI)


Here's a short list of horses allegedly sold to Meat Men at Moutaineer:

Moutaineer Petition (http://www.socialactions.com/node/40709)

[PaceAdvantage]

QUESTION: Why did'nt Preciado or LA Buzz call Zito foundation for him to be picked up? The had the info and knew about the info when they got him. If the wanted him safe,why not call Zito and her foundation????I have a reason why...perhaps they didn't have the papers. I thought I read somewhere that the papers were never in Preciado's possession. Still no excuse to sell a horse to the killers, but it does answer your question.

The jockey club papers usually reside in the racing office, do they not? Trainers and owners don't go around with the papers in their pockets, and unless they ship the horse to another track, they may never see these papers.

Not an excuse, but a reason.

[PaceAdvantage]

What more proof do you need? Of course they knew. Dont piss my leg and tell me it's raining.When serious accusations are made on my board that may damage a person's reputation, yeah, I require some proof...call me crazy....

No article you have posted has claimed that Preciado KNEW about the sticker, but still sent the horse to slaughter anyway....in fact, the only thing these articles claim is that Preciado and LA Buzz are the last trainer/owner of record for this horse, racing-wise.

Please take into consideration MY responsibilities to this message board before you insult me with your witless banter.

[kenwoodallpromos]

This old post of mine got 156 views and no responses.:
"03-22-2007, 08:24 PM #1
kenwoodallpromos
Registered User


Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,439
vCash: 3600 Proposed horse protection law- any comments?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HORSE INJURY AND RETIREMENT LAW (Proposed new USDA law):

Commentary:
My name is Ken Woodall (email address: kenwoodallpromos@msn.com) and I work at home via the internet to come up with ideas to reduce equine leg injuries. It has come to my attention that retired competition horses are sometimes put back into some kind of competition, even after a previous owner determined that such action would be harmful.
In the United States of America, horses and other equine are not consumer products; they are used for riding and pulling, either commercially or privately. They have individual names and identification numbers.
The Federal Government currently has a law that effectively bans various breeds of horses from being intentionally crippled for competition (called Soring, which can be done internally or surgically); also a law which bans horses from being injured on the way to slaughter (but only) in the USA. In the USA horse slaughter laws require: length of current pregnancy, age and previous vs. transport injuries for equinebe determined. At present neither depends on medical records and maybe somewhat subjective or an educated guess depending on who is doing the inspecting, which may be an employee.
This proposed would provide medical proof to re-enforce these laws and allow checks on equine leaving this country.
This proposed law would also by effect help prevent stolen horse from going to slaughter; ban retired horses from interstate competition; and aid the USDA and other national organizations in monitoring the health of the individual horse as well as the horse industry. "our statutory authority to regulate is limited to the commercial transportation of horses to slaughter and to movements to slaughter within the United States."



REFERENCES:
{(a) Horse Protection Act
as amended (15 U.S.C. 1821, 1831)

(b) Horse Slaughter Transport Program
.Federal Register (Docket No. 98-074-2) on
December 7, 2001.
("Document any pre-existing condition of the animal
prior to shipment to prove the condition did not
occur during transport.")}

______________________________
WORKING TITLE: Horse Injury and Retirement Act.

To help facilitate enforcement of the Horse Protection Act and the Horse Salughter Transport Program:
All domesticated equine registered with any equine, horse, donkey, mule or other species or equine breed-specific organization, whose ownership is sold or otherwise transfered within the USA for any commercial purpose; that transfer must be accompanied by a complete (as per criteria set by this law) copy of the horse or equine's medical record (with name and any man-made indentification marks), current from the day of registration or the day of enacment of this law, whichever occurs later. And further no horse or equine shall be transported within the USA to compete in any athletic competition if said medical record contains any signed statement by any owner or previous owner probihiting the horse or equine from said competition.
Any person within the United States transporting any equine for slaughter within or outside the USA must post the name and identification number of such equine om the "Horses Bound for Slaughter" webpage of the United States Departmernt of Agriculture website at least 24 hours prior to slaughter or leaving the United States, along with the name of the dstination slaughter facility."
Banning and civil fines? Good luck getting horsemen to do the right thing witho0ut some kind of Federal law. My proposed law simply helps enm=forse Federal law already on the books, but there were no takers here.

[HolyBull29]

To Paceadvantage,

I agree with most these people here. As I have said,I have worked at the track and at the barns. The trainers and owners are informed. What would be the point of putting anything on any paper if the owner of a horse and the trainer do not see anything or are informed of anything.
They were informed. All trainers and owners are. Its the point of the papers. Are they so stupid that they do not know they can check these things also?? Sorry,but give me a break.

I'm sorry but I have been around the game and I am just not going to be persuaded to believe:

1) Preciado and LA Buzz were told nothing about the horse or saw or heard about his papers from the offices.

2) That Preciado and LA Buzz stables sold off Little Cliff to someone and they had no idead who they were or where he was going. All trainers know about these people. They have been doing it for decades. It's how they got rid of bad horses and unwanted horses for a few bucks,and they KNOW where they are going and what is done to them.

3) MOST IMPORTANT: There are so many retirement foundations and farms around and ALOT of these horses have places set up for them by past and current owners, and by retirement foundations and it is stipulated in their papers and by phone calls. EVERYONE knows about this and THEY could have EASILY checked to see. It's a different world today and these owners and trainers know about all these programs and pre set-ups, and could've VERY simply called to check if they "did'nt" know or "were'nt" told.

Bottomline: They made a quick few dollars on a bad claim.

[PaceAdvantage]

You can state this as many times as you wish, but it doesn't make it true.

And I might agree with you 100%, but that still doesn't necessarily make it true.

The simple fact is, we don't know exactly what went down with this horse, and that's why you don't see it reported anywhere....not in the T-Bred times article, not on the Real Sports piece, not anywhere.

You can have any opinion you wish of the situation, but to come here and report it as fact is irresponsible, as the creator of this thread did....

Stupid mistakes happen all the time in this world....just ask Dennis Quaid....

[HolyBull29]

OK fine. We can not prove Preciado was he last with the horse. He and teh owners did'nt send Cliff to a meat man and the did'nt know where he went.

I'll go with Kim Zito on this one. "There are people in this industry who still do nto give a damn" She knows how it works with horses and their papers and what trainers and owners know about their horses as do I being involved in that part of racing.

But ok for sake of ending this. Even though it was officially listed(call up and check.Even says so in article) the last time Cliff ran was under Preciado and LA Buzz stable(he was not claimed out of the race) they were not the last ones with the horse and maybe some nice women trying to save horses bought Cliff from them and then gave it away to a slaughter house. Preciado and Buzz know nothing about people who buy broken down horses for slaughter and that is is not a common practice at smaller tracks of getting rid of a broken down horse burden.

Last raced on March 1st for Preciado and Buzz stable
Was rescued just 10 days later on March 11th
That seems a quick turnaround to a slaughter house.
By the way horse rescuers do not have vans at these tarcks rescuing horses,thats why their are papers and foundations there for them to call up and get someone to pick up. I will say Meat men are THERE and everyone knows what they do with the horses.

Sorry to Preciado and LA Buzz stable for implementing you guys as the last owners and Trainer(Thoroughbred times owes you a apology too) Sorry guys got duped by a meat man.

[Observer]

I'm not going to join in on the arguement over who knew what in the Little Cliff saga. Luckily in this case, it worked out.

On a personal level, a partner and I years ago privately purchased a horse that simply was not working out as a racehorse. There is no way that trainer we bought from had any idea what we were going to do with the horse. Sometimes it does happen where the last listed trainer really does have no idea.

With that said, my reason here is to rip into Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel. I have no idea what personal issue this guy has against racing, but it has been made clear time and time again. The latest episode with a heavily twisted piece just sealed the deal.

I'm not against the reporting of how horses are still being sent to slaughter from American racetracks. Please, cover it, let the world know about these horrific acts that are going on.

Where the Real Sports piece failed was on many levels. For a person who knows nothing about racing, the program gave the impression that 100s of thoroughbreds were pulled from tracks to their deaths on a daily basis.

The piece gave no indication that individuals as well as the industry have been making efforts to improve the situation, going back to 1982 with the formation of the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation. Now, the choices for rescue are so much greater, but that doesn't mean efforts don't still need to be made. But you wouldn't know about the 100s of rescue organizations if you watched Real Sports.

Sure, a couple of rescue organizations were mentioned by Real Sports, but does anyone really remember the names of these two places??? Was it really so difficult for Real Sports to mention how people could help?? If you're going to rip apart the actions, and even make brief mention of safety nets .. why not take the extra step of giving people the opportunity to scribble down info on how to help. Don't pull on someone's emotions then leave them flat in a puddle of their tears. TELL ME HOW I CAN HELP!!!!!!!!!!

On the help end, at the very end of the segment when Gumbel & reporter Bernard Goldberg sat at Gumbel's desk going over the story, Goldberg seemed as if he accidently let the cat out of the bag and stumbled over how there is legislation in the works to ban the transportation of horses to Mexico and Canada for slaughter. TELL ME HOW I CAN HELP!!!!!!!!!

I understand this was a piece designed to expose the nasty little secret racing has been keeping for years, as if barely an effort has been made to change. But honestly, Goldberg didn't even seem familiar with the push to stop the transport of horses across the borders or at what stage it was at. Why not make mention of how the legislation failed to begin with by still allowing for the transport despite the closing of the three slaughter houses in America?????? The only way the viewer found out about the attempt to halt the transport was from the slip of Goldberg's tongue.

Also in the end-of-story rap session, Goldberg says how someone on the "Upper West Side of Manhattan" can not have a horse. What a load of bullshit!!!! It may not be easy to keep a horse, and a person will have to travel, but if someone really wanted a horse, they could still live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan and have a horse.

The videos were absolutely horrific. This was by design to pull at the viewers emotions. It shouldn't matter where the horse came from, whether it be the racetrack, someone's backyard, a riding school, etc. However, the average Real Sports viewer who probably knows little to nothing about racing was led to believe all those horses in the kill pens and at the plants were Thoroughbreds off the racetrack.

This kind of twisted reporting in the media simply needs to stop. I'm actually sorry that I was part of Gumbel's veiwing audience. But I just simply can not believe how this guy always seems to get it so wrong.

C'mon Bryant, stop being so twisted and TELL ME HOW I CAN HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HolyBull29]

Good piece Observer. I pretty much agree with what your saying. I do think the piece was more about what happens to the horses more than racing just sends out 100's all the time to die. But I guess everyone looks at things different. I mean yeah they could've DEF talked about all the foundations out there and what has been going on for almost two decades now of things changing and people now trying to take care of these horses. They could've also listed adresses,numbers,etc for people to call and donate or what have you.

I just think those videos were horrendous and I think we all know what went on before this was shown but geez they can not come up with a more humane way? Ridiculous and sad. And owner and trainers should be calling many foundations numbers first and foremost and double checking to see if a horse is pre set up for retirement before calling for any slaughter house pick up. Just my take.

[LA Buzz Stable]

www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3221369&posted=#1post3221369 (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3221369&posted=#1post3221369)


Read through the posts. It was confirmed that the LA Buzz Stable did not have anything to do with the fate that Little Cliff faced.

[JWBurnie]

How much did your stable donate?



As an owner, I would invite a rule that required a percentage of all auction sale's and career earnings be held for the retirement of every TB. I know it’s a tough game and difficult to just break even, but each and every horse deserves nothing less. Many owners/breeders are making good money on horses and many have no intention of ever doing anything for them once their career and earning potential is past. Not right. The greed (owners, breeders, trainers, vet’s & track owners) in this game is amazing.




www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3221369&posted=#1post3221369 (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3221369&posted=#1post3221369)


Read through the posts. It was confirmed that the LA Buzz Stable did not have anything to do with the fate that Little Cliff faced.

[Cangamble]

www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3221369&posted=#1post3221369 (http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3221369&posted=#1post3221369)


Read through the posts. It was confirmed that the LA Buzz Stable did not have anything to do with the fate that Little Cliff faced.
I have a few questions:

Did you agree to give away Little Cliff, or did your trainer tell you that he got X amount of dollars for Little Cliff?

Who brokered the deal to sell Little Cliff to the meat man? Was it the trainer? Do you actually think the person who brokered the deal was duped?

[ryesteve]

Read through the posts. It was confirmed that the LA Buzz Stable did not have anything to do with the fate that Little Cliff faced.Unless of course you count negligence and ignorance...

[Citation33]

Yeah I agree. LA Buzz stable who much did you donate along with Zito and his wife after what you heard happened to your horse??

Also,who had the horse after you guys ran him? Or who did you give him to?

[Kelso]

The greed (owners, breeders, trainers, vet’s & track owners) in this game is amazing. Diogenise, I have found your honest man. :ThmbUp:

[JWBurnie]

I'm not implying anything.....how much do you think Robert LaPenta donated to the Little Cliff? He made nearly $200k off him...he cared, right?

[HolyBull29]

Yeah he did care,that's why it says in the articles posted on this thread that the lady who saved him Diane Baker said,"Robert LaPenta and Zito sent very GENEROUS checks" for Little Cliff.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think it's important that all sides are heard in this thread, which is why I am putting up the text of LA Buzz's reply on the other forum....if LA Buzz has any objection, just say the word, and it's gone:


First of all LA Buzz Stable would like to thank the bloggers of the Chronicle Forum about your posts regarding Little Cliff. Without your posts, we would not have known about Little Cliff's awful ordeal. Since we CARE ABOUT OUR HORSES, we felt the necessity to find out the FACTS, as best we could, about how Little Cliff ended up at the direct to slaughter pen. Because there has been much finger pointing, half truths, implications, mistruths & suggestive connotations at the expense of the LA Buzz Stable, so that others can promote their own agenda, LA Buzz will no longer remain silent. It has been known for weeks, by both the Thoroughbred Times & by Ms. Rigoletto (Diana Baker), that WE DID NOT KNOW about this incident. Ms. Rigoletto has knowingly been playing both sides - you the bloggers, in order to bring her own agenda and individual importance to your attention, & us, the LA Buzz Stable, trusting that she would disclose what she knew. We are unwilling to allow her to distort the facts and slander us.

There is no justice when Ms. Rigoletto can get her editorials posted in the Thoroughbred Times, because of her relationship with Ed Derosa, the staff editor who wrote the original articles, and we to date have been unable to. LA Buzz Stable has found the online article, dated April 15th, quite unprofessional as it never states that this is the way Ms. Rigoletto thought things had occured. The article was worded in such a way as to confer blame on us. Kim Zito is quoted and we are named with the result that one would think that we decided to discard Little Cliff after he ran 7th place in his last of two races for us, because we thought he was useless. LA Buzz Stable finds both articles to be slanted and factually distorted.
These are the facts:

1) The rescue groups are very well aware of who the dealers & slaughterhouse people are. But instead of demanding cessation of this practice, all too often, the extent of their involvement is limited to promoting their own agenda, even if it means doing so at the expense of others.

2) There is no Zito farm that Little Cliff will be going to. A home has to be found for him. The one inch white sticker on the back of the foal papers listed Rerun's phone number.

3) Slaughter trucks are not allowed on Philadelphia's Parks premises. Ramon was not present at the time of Little Cliff's pick-up. There were no altercations.

4) To date, there had been no reason for horsemen & trainers to look at a horse's pedigree papers. Transferring of ownership papers occurs in the Horse ID Office and merely goes from the last trainer's file into the new trainer's file. It is common practice that the papers are signed by the Stall Superintendant. If any pertinent information needs to be attached to a horses pedigree papers (like a Coggins test) customarily those papers are left at the Horse ID Office and just attached. Ms. Rigoletto should be aware of that since she has told me that her husband used to train horses.

5) In claiming horses, often the claimed horse has problems, but if you're the owner when the horse breaks down then you're the one who gets blamed, regardless of how much care you put into your horse.

6) Following up on horses once owned every thirty days, as suggested by Ms. Rigoletto, is absurd. It would be an impossible task to expect an owner to do. Perhaps in some ideal world....

LA Buzz Stable cared much & still does care about Little Cliff's well being. LA Buzz did call Bill Landes of the Hermitage Farm, where Little Cliff was bred, to see if they would be able to take Little Cliff at their farm for the remainder of his life. Unfortunately, they were unable to. We never thought of calling the Zitos as we did not know about Kim Zito's involment with horse rescue.

LA Buzz Stable has had only good experience with our trainer and had no reason to doubt his judgment or sincerity when he informed us that he had a contact who had a local farm where we could visit Little Cliff whenever we wanted to. Only after Little Cliff had been picked up at the racetrack, did we find out about the sticker being attached to his racing papers which directed the last owner to contact Rerun.

LA Buzz Stable was in the process of trying to find out the whereabouts of Little Cliff when we came upon the article posted in this forum. The LA Buzz Stable CARES ABOUT OUR HORSES & STRONGLY CONDEMNS HORSE SLAUGHTER.

In the past few weeks, we have been working closely with Barbara Luna, who is in charge of the HBPA'S horse rescue initiative at Philadelphia, in order to insure that what happened to Little Cliff does not happen again by providing a safety net for both horsemen & trainers alike.

We have already spoken with other rescue people who would like very much to work with the HBPA office once the HBPA is granted a non-profit status. LA Buzz thinks the rescue people who rescued Little Cliff did a wonderful thing and we heartily thank them.

For those of you who are truly concerned about Philadelphia Park's retired horses, I urge you to call Barbara Luna to see what you can do to help or, at the very least, to make a donation. Upon the HBPA obtaining non-profit status the LA Buzz Stable will be happy to post where donations can be sent.

The LA Buzz Stable

[PaceAdvantage]

It's good to see some clarification of what I stated earlier in this thread, which was that these papers are filed in Horse ID and not carried around by trainers or owners:

4) To date, there had been no reason for horsemen & trainers to look at a horse's pedigree papers. Transferring of ownership papers occurs in the Horse ID Office and merely goes from the last trainer's file into the new trainer's file. It is common practice that the papers are signed by the Stall Superintendant. If any pertinent information needs to be attached to a horses pedigree papers (like a Coggins test) customarily those papers are left at the Horse ID Office and just attached. Ms. Rigoletto should be aware of that since she has told me that her husband used to train horses.

[FunkyMonkey]

Why are all track operators not required to provide a service to all horsepeople that assists them in finding suitable homes for all horses who are being retired from racing...besides cost what other objection could there be? As a society we make choices all the time, my thinking is that if the cost structure is such that this additional burden would prevent people from running racetracks then I say shut them all down and lets move on...just my 2cents worth.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why are all track operators not required to provide a service to all horsepeople that assists them in finding suitable homes for all horses who are being retired from racing...besides cost what other objection could there be? As a society we make choices all the time, my thinking is that if the cost structure is such that this additional burden would prevent people from running racetracks then I say shut them all down and lets move on...just my 2cents worth.It's hard to break folks of their habits....even bad ones...

All of this publicity is a good thing. It will make trainers and owners think twice as they prepare to jettison a horse from their stable.

[Citation33]

To LA BuzzWho are the folks or whats the name of the farm that said they had a home for Cliff and picked him up, but then actually had him end up just days later in a slaughterhouse?

I think those people names and the farms name should be put out there to protect future horses from them. Obviously they do not take "care" of horses.

[JustRalph]

I smell a PR Campaign.................

[russowen77]

It's hard to break folks of their habits....even bad ones...

All of this publicity is a good thing. It will make trainers and owners think twice as they prepare to jettison a horse from their stable.

The flips side of that is that the same people will think twice before adding a horse to their stable. We are breeding way too much stock in America imo.

[LA Buzz Stable]

Owners Response To The Rescue Of Little Cliff - Thoroughbred Times
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:04 PM

Previous owner responds to Little Cliff’s rescue




Writing on behalf of LA Buzz, of which I am a partner, I would like to present to the readership of the Thoroughbred Times the facts as we know them to be concerning the time between Little Cliff’s last race, his subsequent rescue from a direct-to-kill pen and the furor that has helped create amongst those following this story.

Up until the time that the first article was published online in mid April (click here to read the story), my partner and I believed that Little Cliff had been taken to a farm. Little Cliff had earned second money of $3,200 in his prior race for us, but got injured in the subsequent race and had to be vanned off the racetrack after the finish of his race.

After the trainer, Ramon Preciado, confirmed that Little Cliff would never race again, my partner contacted the general manager of the farm where he was bred to inquire if we could retire him there. Unfortunately, they were unable to assist. Thereupon, the trainer told us he would see to it that Little Cliff would get a good home, and indeed told us that he had a contact that had a local farm where we could visit him.

We had only good experiences with Ramon to that point, and had no reason to question his judgment or sincerity. The horse was released to Ramon, as our agent, solely to be retired, and we received no compensation, nor gave him any consent to receive any himself. What happened to him from the time he left the track to when he was found by the rescue people remains unknown to us, despite our many efforts to find out.

After Little Cliff left the track, Ramon told us about a sticker that was in with his foal papers. Upon inspection of the papers, we discovered a half-inch-square white paste-on sticker with ReRun’s phone number. Though we knew that Nick Zito had trained Little Cliff for the majority of his career, we had no idea of the extent of the involvement Kim Zito had with horse rescue, and had no way of knowing that she wanted to be contacted.

Partly because of what happened with Little Cliff, and partly because it was already in its formative stage already, the Pennsylvania Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Association has begun an initiative to provide trainers with a place … to retire horses no longer able to race and in need of a home. Hopefully, the project will be successful in obtaining adequate financing and optimal results for the horse population at Philadelphia Park, so that what Little Cliff had to face does not happen again. LA Buzz is doing what it can to help.

LA Buzz indeed appreciates the efforts made by Another Chance For Horses on behalf of Little Cliff and the many other horses they have saved, and the efforts of all other horse rescue organizations. We also strongly condemn all horse slaughter and across the border horse transport for slaughter.

Contributions or assistance in providing homes should contact Turning For Home, in care of PTHA, P.O. Box 300, Bensalem, PA. 19020 or contact Barbara Luna of the HBPA office at Philadelphia Park

Respectfully submitted,

Robert Levin & Sheila Austrach
LA Buzz

[Kelso]

Owners Response To The Rescue Of Little Cliff - Thoroughbred Times
Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:04 PM

Previous owner responds to Little Cliff’s rescue

<snip>

We had only good experiences with Ramon to that point, and had no reason to question his judgment or sincerity. The horse was released to Ramon, as our agent, solely to be retired, and we received no compensation, nor gave him any consent to receive any himself. What happened to him from the time he left the track to when he was found by the rescue people remains unknown to us, despite our many efforts to find out.

<snip>

Robert Levin & Sheila Austrach
LA BuzzYou (Stable/Levin/Austrach) have not told us what Preciado has told you about how Little Cliff wound up in a kill-pen, rather than with Preciado's "contact that had a local farm where we could visit him."

What has Preciado told you happened to the horse?

What will you do NEXT to supplement your "many efforts to find out" how, and by whose hand, YOUR HORSE wound up in a kill-pen?

Thank you.

[Shenanigans]

I was told of an incident that occurred a couple years ago at Thistledown. A trainer gave two of his horses to what he thought was a rescue group. It turned out that the girl that was part of the rescue group sent out her boyfriend to pick up the horses and in turn the boyfriend took the horses to Sugarcreek auction. The trainer later asked the girl where were the tax forms he was to get from the rescue group for donating the horses. Had the trainer never asked, no one would have been the wiser. This is just a case of showing how just because someone tells a trainer or owner that the horse is going to a good home it doesn't always turn out that way, and is not the fault of the trainer or owner. Last I heard the "thief" ended up in prison.

[westny]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Buzz Stable
Read through the posts. It was confirmed that the LA Buzz Stable did not have anything to do with the fate that Little Cliff faced.

Unless of course you count negligence and ignorance...

And a change of tune from "we didn't know" as (the last owners) and "we gve hiim to some who had a lovely farm ". Same old tired mantra whenever a "famous" horse gets rescued from NH and the last owners always sing the same tune, always...especially when they get called out in public in the racing press.

[PaceAdvantage]

Same old tired mantra whenever a "famous" horse gets rescued from NH and the last owners always sing the same tune, always...especially when they get called out in public in the racing press.Yep, you nailed it, because you were there, and you have all the inside info, right? Nothing ever goes awry in this world....good intentioned plans never get blindsided, and anything bad that happens is always carefully orchestrated beforehand.

As for me, I believe LA Buzz, because I know that in this world, bad shit sometimes happens to good people.

[JustRalph]

Don't forget that Nick Zito won the Belmont Yesterday.

We got to see Nick and his wife celebrating..............these are the people who didn't hesitate and wrote a check for this horse Little Cliff. I just realized that this morning. We got to see them at the top of the game.

Kudos's to Nick and his wife! They obviously are in touch with the bottom end of the game too!!

[Kelso]

I ask again:

What has Preciado told you happened to the horse?

What will you do NEXT to supplement your "many efforts to find out" how, and by whose hand, YOUR HORSE wound up in a kill-pen?

[bobphilo]

If there's a cause for PETA to champion, this is the one. The horse had people willing to take it and find a good home for it but the owners either didn't care or worse.

As much as I dislike the tactics that PETA uses, I say "go get 'em".

That is precisely one of their issues of changes they are calling for. Check out their website. I only wish they would drop their criticisms of Eight Belles' connections, who are part of the good guys, especially Jones. Practically eveything else they are calling for is spot on.

Bob