Costas panel to dissect horse racing's dark side

[trigger]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/mccarthy/2008-05-13-McCarthy_N.htm

[bigmack]

Let's review the work of William Rhoden:

Why do we keep giving thoroughbred horse racing a pass? Is it the tradition? The millions upon millions invested in the betting?

Why isn’t there more pressure to put the sport of kings under the umbrella of animal cruelty?

The sport is at least as inhumane as greyhound racing and only a couple of steps removed from animal fighting.

Is it the fact that horse racing is imbedded in the American fabric? And the Triple Crown is a nationally televised spectacle? Or is it the fact that death on the track is rarely seen by a mainstream television audience?

The sentiment was summed up by Dr. Larry Bramlage on Saturday when, asked about fillies racing against colts, he said, “One death is not an epidemic.”

But this isn’t about one death. This is about the nature of a sport that routinely grinds up young horses...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/sports/othersports/04rhoden.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[Shenanigans]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/mccarthy/2008-05-13-McCarthy_N.htm

I don't believen any of the three mentioned that will be interviewed about the subject will get down to the nitty gritty of what is really wrong with the sport. I will be very surprised if they do. This will be a half hour airing of racing being defended and not "dissected".

[BeatTheChalk]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/mccarthy/2008-05-13-McCarthy_N.htm

Yeah Costas is always there to talk about the dark side the bad side of
things. Don't get me started please :ThmbDown:

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't believen any of the three mentioned that will be interviewed about the subject will get down to the nitty gritty of what is really wrong with the sport. I will be very surprised if they do. This will be a half hour airing of racing being defended and not "dissected".It seems to me that they have a balanced group assembled for this "roundtable." I mean, they are including a guy who called racing "a couple of steps removed from animal fighting." How much more diverse can the views get from that? You have a vet, a jockey, a trainer, and a guy who writes for the NYT and equates racing to animal fighting....

[Shenanigans]

It seems to me that they have a balanced group assembled for this "roundtable." I mean, they are including a guy who called racing "a couple of steps removed from animal fighting." How much more diverse can the views get from that? You have a vet, a jockey, a trainer, and a guy who writes for the NYT and equates racing to animal fighting....

As I stated, I don't see those three really giving an all honest, nitty gritty real reason what's wrong with the sport.

[The Hawk]

It seems like once a month, somewhere in this country, a high school athlete collapses on the court, or field, instantly dead of a heart ailment, triggered by exertion.

Dale Earnhardt is killed instantly in a car wreck, joining many others killed in auto racing. Skiiing and moutain climbing claim lives. How many joggers drop dead? Their sports are not viewed as ours, is by the ignorant in the mainstream media.

True, the difference is the horses don't make the choice. That's true, yes. If that's the argument, let's also abolish circuses, parades, the use of carriage horses, police horses, dog shows, equestrian sports and the swimming with dolphins.

[bigmack]

In the summer of '06, 19 high school athletes dropped dead from heat. That's just '06 & that's just HS

Coaches were found to have thought that such extremes were "toughening up the kids". Is there a PETHSA? One HS student death is equal in outrage to how many equine? Where should our outrage begin or end with a death in the pursuit of any athletic endeavor?

[Tom]

Costas...now there is a bright bulb!
Once lost an argument to wet paint.

[Marshall Bennett]

It seems like once a month, somewhere in this country, a high school athlete collapses on the court, or field, instantly dead of a heart ailment, triggered by exertion.

Dale Earnhardt is killed instantly in a car wreck, joining many others killed in auto racing. Skiiing and moutain climbing claim lives. How many joggers drop dead? Their sports are not viewed as ours, is by the ignorant in the mainstream media.

True, the difference is the horses don't make the choice. That's true, yes. If that's the argument, let's also abolish circuses, parades, the use of carriage horses, police horses, dog shows, equestrian sports and the swimming with dolphins.
... and don't forget zoos . :p

[PaceAdvantage]

True, the difference is the horses don't make the choice. That's true, yes. If that's the argument, let's also abolish circuses, parades, the use of carriage horses, police horses, dog shows, equestrian sports and the swimming with dolphins.I would say most of these things are on PETA's hit list.

[JustRalph]

The Dale Earnhardt Analogy is not a good one for horse racing. After Dale was killed millions of dollars were spent to change things. The sport was changed at its core.

Kenny Irwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Irwin) and Kyle Petty's son Adam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Petty) are more likely analogies. But they don't bode well for Horse Racing either.

After chalking up the Irwin and Petty deaths to the "dangers inherent in racing" and barely reacting much at all, the sport continued much as before.

After Earnhardt was killed a massive undertaking began to change the sport. It was shameful that Irwin and Petty were not deemed a catalyst for change.

Earnhardt's death was something completely different. It triggered a sea change in safety for Nascar. There was a two year period of investigation and four years of reformation that resulted in some very serious changes in the equipment used by the drivers (Hans Device, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_Device) Kill Switches on the steering wheel) and ultimately in the re-design of the cars that forced every team to change their cars to what is now called the "car of tomorrow" This version of a race car is in its second season as I write this.

The "Car of Tomorrow" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_of_Tomorrow) emphasizes safety and locates the driver closer to the center of the vehicle and uses several new safety standards that have proven to have saved a few lives already, if you believe the hype. Every car now contains equipment that registers how hard a car crashes etc. They have a baseline to work from now. The electronics are better and can shut down fuel flow and other fire prone activities after a crash. It is a whole different animal than Dale Earnhardt was driving on the terrible day that he died. There were changes made to the tracks. The implementation of "soft walls" (http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/nascar-safety9.htm) has been revolutionary in the sport. Soft walls cause less damage and keep more cars running in a race. The safety benefits are obvious.

I don't think the Dale Earnhardt analogy is useful or serves the sport well in speaking of the future. FYI

[The Hawk]

The Dale Earnhardt Analogy is not a good one for horse racing. After Dale was killed millions of dollars were spent to change things. The sport was changed at its core.

Kenny Irwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Irwin) and Kyle Petty's son Adam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Petty) are more likely analogies. But they don't bode well for Horse Racing either.

After chalking up the Irwin and Petty deaths to the "dangers inherent in racing" and barely reacting much at all, the sport continued much as before.

After Earnhardt was killed a massive undertaking began to change the sport. It was shameful that Irwin and Petty were not deemed a catalyst for change.

Earnhardt's death was something completely different. It triggered a sea change in safety for Nascar. There was a two year period of investigation and four years of reformation that resulted in some very serious changes in the equipment used by the drivers (Hans Device, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_Device) Kill Switches on the steering wheel) and ultimately in the re-design of the cars that forced every team to change their cars to what is now called the "car of tomorrow" This version of a race car is in its second season as I write this.

The "Car of Tomorrow" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_of_Tomorrow) emphasizes safety and locates the driver closer to the center of the vehicle and uses several new safety standards that have proven to have saved a few lives already, if you believe the hype. Every car now contains equipment that registers how hard a car crashes etc. They have a baseline to work from now. The electronics are better and can shut down fuel flow and other fire prone activities after a crash. It is a whole different animal than Dale Earnhardt was driving on the terrible day that he died. There were changes made to the tracks. The implementation of "soft walls" (http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/nascar-safety9.htm) has been revolutionary in the sport. Soft walls cause less damage and keep more cars running in a race. The safety benefits are obvious.

I don't think the Dale Earnhardt analogy is useful or serves the sport well in speaking of the future. FYI

I disagree, FYI. The point was, no one called for the abolition of the sport due to isolated tragic incidents, as is the case here.

[The Hawk]

I would say most of these things are on PETA's hit list.

Probably true. And none of those things are going anywhere just because a group of zealots wants to abolish them, thankfully. Hopefully, the NTRA, heretofore useless, will grow a pair and at some point go on the offensive.

Check out this link (I hope it still works, it's from yesterday). This guy wants to question whether racing is relevant, in the same column where he mentions that $14 billion is bet on the game. On the bottom of the page are Yahoo links to Women's Collge Basketball and the MLS, and he wants to know if a sport that generates billions in handle is relevant.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=jo-horses051508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[jma]

It seems like once a month, somewhere in this country, a high school athlete collapses on the court, or field, instantly dead of a heart ailment, triggered by exertion.

Dale Earnhardt is killed instantly in a car wreck, joining many others killed in auto racing. Skiiing and moutain climbing claim lives. How many joggers drop dead? Their sports are not viewed as ours, is by the ignorant in the mainstream media.

True, the difference is the horses don't make the choice. That's true, yes. If that's the argument, let's also abolish circuses, parades, the use of carriage horses, police horses, dog shows, equestrian sports and the swimming with dolphins.

Just to play devil's advocate, how is a police officer riding a horse or a dog being endlessly pampered for a dog show the same as a racehorse being drugged up and beaten with a whip until it breaks both legs? THIS IS NOT MY BELIEF, but that's what PETA is going to say. Now circuses, well, that's probably a step or two BELOW horse racing for PETA.

[The Hawk]

Just to play devil's advocate, how is a police officer riding a horse or a dog being endlessly pampered for a dog show the same as a racehorse being drugged up and beaten with a whip until it breaks both legs? THIS IS NOT MY BELIEF, but that's what PETA is going to say. Now circuses, well, that's probably a step or two BELOW horse racing for PETA.

One of the main contentions by PETA was that the horses have no choice. The police horse and the show dog also have no choice.

[jma]

One of the main contentions by PETA was that the horses have no choice. The police horse and the show dog also have no choice.

Thankfully, ESPN announced that a big 15 people were there protesting for PETA at the Preakness (they showed them and there weren't many), so that turned out to be no big deal. Of course the race has not been run yet...racing needs this one to go safely.

[usafsso]

Thankfully, ESPN announced that a big 15 people were there protesting for PETA at the Preakness (they showed them and there weren't many), so that turned out to be no big deal. Of course the race has not been run yet...racing needs this one to go safely.

And it took some time to find them. Looks like they were at the back staff gate. Not the front where people are at.

[Grits]

And it took some time to find them. Looks like they were at the back staff gate. Not the front where people are at.

Couldn't happen to a finer bunch! Back gate. LOLOLLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[ddog]

The Dale Earnhardt Analogy is not a good one for horse racing. After Dale was killed millions of dollars were spent to change things. The sport was changed at its core.

Kenny Irwin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Irwin) and Kyle Petty's son Adam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Petty) are more likely analogies. But they don't bode well for Horse Racing either.

After chalking up the Irwin and Petty deaths to the "dangers inherent in racing" and barely reacting much at all, the sport continued much as before.

After Earnhardt was killed a massive undertaking began to change the sport. It was shameful that Irwin and Petty were not deemed a catalyst for change.

Earnhardt's death was something completely different. It triggered a sea change in safety for Nascar. There was a two year period of investigation and four years of reformation that resulted in some very serious changes in the equipment used by the drivers (Hans Device, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_Device) Kill Switches on the steering wheel) and ultimately in the re-design of the cars that forced every team to change their cars to what is now called the "car of tomorrow" This version of a race car is in its second season as I write this.

The "Car of Tomorrow" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_of_Tomorrow) emphasizes safety and locates the driver closer to the center of the vehicle and uses several new safety standards that have proven to have saved a few lives already, if you believe the hype. Every car now contains equipment that registers how hard a car crashes etc. They have a baseline to work from now. The electronics are better and can shut down fuel flow and other fire prone activities after a crash. It is a whole different animal than Dale Earnhardt was driving on the terrible day that he died. There were changes made to the tracks. The implementation of "soft walls" (http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/nascar-safety9.htm) has been revolutionary in the sport. Soft walls cause less damage and keep more cars running in a race. The safety benefits are obvious.

I don't think the Dale Earnhardt analogy is useful or serves the sport well in speaking of the future. FYI

Nice post, I do think it plays into the horse biz.
the car of tomorrow would equal banning of drugs in the horse biz.
breed and run 'em on grass / hay and water, get all of the crazy pharma out of the deal ban 2yo racing, and 2yo sales, no 2yo nothing allowed.

Nation wide independant testing regime started, mandatory testing of at least 15% of all t/b each year.
Random , no notice, test taken anywhere anytime.


without that, PETA has some points.

They not only don't have a choice , but the choice they could make , slow down or not race is blokced by lots of the drugs administered.

I find myself moving ever so slowly to the ban it side of the ledger , which surprises me.

[JustRalph]

My point was, it is not a good analogy for horse racing because there is no way the NTRA, the Tracks etc will mount anything close to the movement that Nascar did. They won't spend the money, they can't regulate different tracks in different States etc. It won't happen so I don't think it is a good analogy to be using when discussing Horse racing. You are calling for something way out of bounds in the sport. So if you setup this type of expectation, there is no way to meet it in the Horse racing world.

[PaceAdvantage]

...ban 2yo racing, and 2yo sales, no 2yo nothing allowed.But what about the science that says racing and training them young helps build a sturdier and more durable racehorse. What about the data that says horses that start at 2yo have longer careers than horses that start at 3 or older? Are you calling this data false? Do you have numbers that say differently? Is Dr. Larry Bramlage a liar or does he not have access to data that you might have access to?

And please don't come back at me with "Dr. Larry is only saying what he's saying because he is in the back pocket of the industry, which doesn't want to change." That type of response will get us nowhere.

[The Hawk]

My point was, it is not a good analogy for horse racing because there is no way the NTRA, the Tracks etc will mount anything close to the movement that Nascar did. They won't spend the money, they can't regulate different tracks in different States etc. It won't happen so I don't think it is a good analogy to be using when discussing Horse racing. You are calling for something way out of bounds in the sport. So if you setup this type of expectation, there is no way to meet it in the Horse racing world.

I thought the installing of the synthetics was in response to breakdowns? More and more tracks are installing them, at a high cost.

[Gallop58]

Missed the televised debate with Rhoden. How was it?

Re: NASCAR, They had it easier. They're the equivalent of one racing circuit who can make changes and they had all the data necessary to choose what to do (from other race circuits and basic, known engineering) Racing doesn't have the blue print. We just don't know what will work.
Re: Bramlage. I like him, but on this point I think he trots out the easy argument. He and most people know that proper training of young athletes only helps them to longer careers. That doesn't mean that you need 2YO sales, etc. I think he pulls out the study argument so we don't all need to get into that old circular conversation. Exercising 2YO's is a good thing, the argument is whether we need to race them. I have been unable to find the studies referred too, but in my experience most horse science and especially studies of that vintage are poor. That's not to say I don't agree with Bramlage though. Early exercise is good, but the argument is in the appropriate level of stress.

I pulled out my racing manual and looked at the PPs listed for "greats of the 20th century". There is no doubt that the breed is weaker. I cringed when I heard the JC say that they'd be convening that committee to look at things, but that they themselves couldn't do much. They have been poor stewards of the breed. Period. They allow the freemarket to dictate the breed development and this is what you get. Either step in and manage the breed (very very difficult) or step out. To say there's not much they can do is a tragedy. They're the ones who can do the most.

Easy for me to say I know....

[Kelso]

But what about the science that says racing and training them young helps build a sturdier and more durable racehorse.Comments on "the science" that I've heard and read, particularly from Dr. Bramlage, have supported training two-year olds. To the lesser extent that I've heard or read related comments about racing them, they have been uniformly in opposition to the practice.

[rastajenk]

Uniformly? Are you kidding?

What is the real difference between racing and training anyway? You put some weight on their backs and run them at some speed for a distance in order to make them faster eventually.

[Kelso]

Uniformly? Are you kidding?
Nope. Referring to period since EB broke down. Didn't think I would have to explain that. Haven't heard or read anyone defending racing the babies.


What is the real difference between racing and training anyway? You put some weight on their backs and run them at some speed for a distance in order to make them faster eventually.For obvious starters:
1 - Speed
2 - Distance
3 - Company
4 - Jockey's pay