Presque Isle Handle Update

[Premier Turf Club]

After three races today handle is off 80%. It is entirely possible the entire card will yield less than $100,000 in wagers. Purses paid today are $180,000.

Let's hope this doesn't last long. There are no winners here and all of us lose.

[Imriledup]

Maybe bettors don't like the unpredicatbility of the surface?

[lamboguy]

that's a good one riledup!


you even got me to laugh

[Premier Turf Club]

Maybe bettors don't like the unpredicatbility of the surface?

No, PA horsemen rescinded all ADW simulcast rights as of today.

[cj]

This one should be interesting since the purses are pretty much coming from slots anyway.

[Imriledup]

that's a good one riledup!


you even got me to laugh

Glad i could add some smiles into your Mother's day! :lol:

[KMS]

These people must all ride the short bus to the track. I don't think anyone in racing could compare favorably to a wet sponge in the IQ department. If someone even moderately intelligent would just get into the game, they'd be wildly successful. Unfortunately, anyone smart enough to do that is smart enough to stay far away.

On the chance that anyone actually involved in racing happens to be reading this board, I'll make it very simple: You're. All. Idiots.

[Tom]

The whorsemen must be rocket scientists......time to cut purses by 80% and go kiss the asses of the slot players - screw the racing aspect. It is only leeching off the real business there anyways. Slots are bread and butter - races are welfare cases.

Frankly, it was pretty dumb idea, IMHO to ever open a track there. What the heck do we need with another track in this neck of the woods?

[cmoore]

I couldn't bet Presque Isle Downs and another stable horse of mine won...Dot The Page in race 3...$37.00 to win...FKN sob.....

[Doc]

I made the trip to Presque Isle last September and was horrified - there's a damn LANDFILL off to the right of the racing oval. At Santa Anita, you get mountains. But at Presque Isle ... a freakin' landfill. From what I understand that whole piece of ground the grandstand sits on was a landfill. You can't hear the call of any races inside the grandstand, because that might disturb the slots players. I was bitterly disappointed in Presque Isle. To make matters worse, those bozos at the Thoroughbred Times named it the "best racino" in the country. On what basis? Actually I always liked the way Delaware Park handled the slots/racing issue. I waltz into Delaware, I don't see the slots players, and that's the way I like it. Keep those nickel-pumping, chain-smoking, blue-hairs far, far away from me.

Doc

[Premier Turf Club]

Total handle about $180,000 or $22k per race. Average win pool of about $12k per race, average super pool of $2k.

By comparison, FL today, 60% of the purses (and boy they have a nice purse structure these days) 3x the handle.

Damn. I hope this gets worked out. Soon.

[rrbauer]

Friday, opening day: 51 runners, average field size 6.5
Saturday: 50 runners (49 betting interests), average field size 6.3
Sunday: 47 runners: average field size 5.9

Largest field was on Saturday: Nine maidens!

[DrugS]

To make matters worse, those bozos at the Thoroughbred Times named it the "best racino" in the country. On what basis?

Being voted "best racino" in the country is a lot like being voted 'Prettiest Girl at the Fat Camp'

To tell you the truth Doc - they deserved that award last year. They ran a short and sweet 25 day meet that featured big competitive fields running for absurdly large slots-fueled purses. You had one outstanding betting race after another. Also, the meet took place during the month of September, which was the perfect slot on the calendar for it. Fewer tracks were running, and they - with the giant purses - were competing with the likes of Turfway Park, Thistle, and Penn National at a time when there is no major racing in Kentucky at Saratoga's meet had just concluded. That is what allowed trainers like Tom Amoss and Steve Asmussen - as well as other trainers stabled at CD now - to start so many of their better horses at the meet last year.

Last years meet was idiot proof. Simply put, NO ONE could have screwed it up even if they tried.

However, a lot of the trainers I spoke to last year who shipped horses in to race at PID were very upset about what was going on.

They only built 500 stalls on the grounds.... and many trainers were unhappy with the stalls ... using words like "cheap" - "prefab" - "dungeons" to describe them. There was also NO living facilities available for the help (grooms, assistants, hotwalkers etc.) that the trainers employed. The trainers had to pay to put them in rooms... since a lot of those workers don't drive.. they also had to transport them all over.

It alarmed a lot of horseman when PID didn't build more stalls or facilities for this years meet. The same 500 much maligned stalls that were there last year remained. No facilites for stable employees were built either - however, the track rented a few hundred rooms at a motel about two miles away. They rented them out at $7 a day and did provide transportation to and from every hour or so.

PID got 1,500 applications for the 500 stalls they had to allot.. meaning they had to turn 1K horses down. The situation was made worse when a few trainers who wanted to come in three or four weeks before the start of the meet found that the barns weren't ready.

On opening day only 255 horses were stabled ont he grounds. That included the 51 who ran that evening.

This years meet is 4 times longer. The competition and timing on the racing schedule is much tougher. The purses, while still strong, have come back down to earth. There are just 500 much maligned stalls for a 100 day meet and no training centers around.

[DrugS]

Friday, opening day: 51 runners, average field size 6.5
Saturday: 50 runners (49 betting interests), average field size 6.3
Sunday: 47 runners: average field size 5.9

Largest field was on Saturday: Nine maidens!

Just imagine if they didn't have very nice purses and a racing surface that wasn't highly touted....

[john del riccio]

No, PA horsemen rescinded all ADW simulcast rights as of today.

Ian,

There are some "horsemen" that din't even know what I was referring to when I brought this up to them, makes you wonder if the tail is wagging the dog.

John

[cj's dad]

Friday, opening day: 51 runners, average field size 6.5
Saturday: 50 runners (49 betting interests), average field size 6.3
Sunday: 47 runners: average field size 5.9

Largest field was on Saturday: Nine maidens!

Field sizes @ Pimlico, Belmont and Delaware Park on Sunday were the same or just slightly better. Left the track early, it was so pitiful.

[ryesteve]

Field sizes @ Pimlico, Belmont and Delaware Park on Sunday were the same or just slightly better. Left the track early, it was so pitiful.Bum rap on Belmont... they had 8.8 horses per race...

[cj's dad]

Bum rap on Belmont... they had 8.8 horses per race...

Left after the 4th; race 2 - 6 race 3-5 race 4-6

Adios

[boomman]

After three races today handle is off 80%. It is entirely possible the entire card will yield less than $100,000 in wagers. Purses paid today are $180,000.

Let's hope this doesn't last long. There are no winners here and all of us lose.

I would think a major purse cut (even with slot revenues) would be in the offing there.............:bang:

Boomer

[bigmack]

They only built 500 stalls on the grounds.... and many trainers were unhappy with the stalls ... using words like "cheap" - "prefab" - "dungeons" to describe them. There was also NO living facilities available for the help (grooms, assistants, hotwalkers etc.) that the trainers employed. The trainers had to pay to put them in rooms... since a lot of those workers don't drive.. they also had to transport them all over
“Obviously, I’m very pleased,” said Richard Knight, the president and CEO of Presque Isle. “We started out this year’s race meeting successfully, and I’m hoping that we can continue that success through the entire 100 days of our racing season.”.....
“My number one goal is for us to have larger fields,” said Knight. “Small fields really hurt our handle. We have some very good jockeys here – riders such as Ryan Fogelsonger, Allen, Martinez and Beckner, who have proven their abilities on major circuits.

“Right now, we have 500 stalls in our barn area,” Knight said. “We never had full occupancy last year, and we don’t so far this year. But as soon as we do, we’ll increase the number of our stalls.”



Never had full occupancy? DS - What gives

[Steve 'StatMan']

I know decent barns cost a lot. Hawthorne recently won an arbitration case, and was able to buy the barns Sportsman's Park built on the Hawthorne property for $6 Million, their construction cost in 1998-2000, they would definitely cost more than that now to build new. These barns hold 800 horses. (Hawthorne also has their pre-merger barns.)

Background: Sportsman's Park/Nat'l Jockey Club, who formed a partnership with Hawtorne, went bankrupt, and $20M worth of loans were sold to Mr. Duchosois' family's company (former AP owner, now large CD shareholder) and the loans were called. They had to either buy them, or they would be torn down, and then would have to choose to replace them, run with about maybe 60% of the barns, or quit racing. Thankfully they only had to pay construction price.

Anyway, decent barns cost a lot. Sure hope PID's situation gets settled for the best. Seemed like a good idea to me, great surface. Odd 1st post time - not sure if that helps or hurts in the simulcast market. Barn situation defintely hampers things, and the adw blocking messes things up big time (Where did the horsement think the betting at this new track was going to come from? Racing in Erie had failed before. Free money from the casino & better purses than nearly anywhere else for that level of racing not good enough??? The betting handle alone last year was a money-loser for the track, right? Racing is just the G-String that keeps the Casino legal.)

Sure can't raise $6million (+ 8-10 years inflation) easily for more barns for 800 horses while expecting more of the pie that would have contributed to their horses' free lodging.)

[Burls]

Racing is just the G-String that keeps the Casino legal.:lol: :lol: :lol: