Here we go! NY Synthetic Track Forum to be held.

[fouroneone]

I work for/with NYRA and confirm there will be nyra employees in attendance.

http://www.saratogian.com/WebApp/appmanager/JRC/BigDaily;jsessionid=k8q5LhjJ3YZnLRjdT1ClGZChvpqcWx 3GYsPBzNpXnrj7yhKzzCKb!651502814?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pg_article&r21.pgpath=%2FTST%2FHome&r21.content=%2FTST%2FHome%2FTopStoryList_Story_200 7567

[46zilzal]

PR band aids won't change the root causes: drugs, breeding speed to speed.

[Norm]

Wow ! That would be a disaster for me. AQU is my "home" track for 6 months out of the year. It's the most profitable track I play.

Here's another article on the same topic :

http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slug=ap-nyra-syntheticsurface&prov=ap&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slug=ap-nyra-syntheticsurface&prov=ap&type=lgns)

[Bobzilla]

Hopefully Nick Zito and Barclay Tagg will at least be allowed to air their concerns at this forum. Invitations for the latest discussion amongst horsemen in California were only sent to those who have been vocally supportive of the synthetic revolution. Trainers who have raied concerns, such as John Sadler, John Shirrefs, Jack Van Berg and Bob Baffert, were told they need not attend, at least according to an article I read through a link in Steve Crist' blog.

[Bobzilla]

http://www.dailybreeze.com/sports/ci_9046441 (http://www.dailybreeze.com/sports/ci_9046441)

[samyn on the green]

Let us hope they do not ruin the New York tracks with the synthetic surfaces. NYRA is one of the few track operators that have the ability and knowledge to maintain safe dirt tracks. New York does not have the same same of incompetence that California and Keeneland displayed in maintaining their dirt surface. There is no need to replace the tracks in New York.

[AQUEBUCKS]

Charles Hayward has already been quoted as saying he would entertain Aqueduct as the first of the NYRA tracks to put in a synthetic surface on the Main track, and converting the Inner Dirt track to a One Mile Turf Course.

[ny0707ny]

Let us hope they do not ruin the New York tracks with the synthetic surfaces. NYRA is one of the few track operators that have the ability and knowledge to maintain safe dirt tracks. New York does not have the same same of incompetence that California and Keeneland displayed in maintaining their dirt surface. There is no need to replace the tracks in New York.

Seeing how things are going latley, I think we are the last generation to actually see dirt races. Even if the non-dirt tracks don't prevent all injurys, a lot of people say they reduce them. By 2020-2030 you will probably see no dirt racetracks left.

[Imriledup]

Will horseplayers get a say? After all, they are the ones paying the bills.

[Norm]

Will horseplayers get a say? After all, they are the ones paying the bills.
Horseplayers have the ultimate say. If you bet at a polycrap track, you are saying it's o.k. If you don't bet at polycrap tracks, then you are saying you don't approve. Then we can see whose voice is louder, the polycrap purveyors and supporters or the horseplayers.

[john del riccio]

If NY installs Polycrap, I'm done.

John

[the little guy]

This is an erroneous report.

[Marshall Bennett]

Seeing how things are going latley, I think we are the last generation to actually see dirt races. Even if the non-dirt tracks don't prevent all injurys, a lot of people say they reduce them. By 2020-2030 you will probably see no dirt racetracks left.
At the rate we're going we'll be lucky if we're racing at all . By 2030 , horses will be hard pressed to have a good leg to stand on , if other issues haven't already closed everything down . :confused:

[magwell]

Not for nothing but seems like a great idea, then we could have a chance of 9 and 10 horses in most of the races all winter, sounds good to me..... time to get in the 21st century New York :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Kelso]

Horseplayers have the ultimate say. If you bet at a polycrap track, you are saying it's o.k. If you don't bet at polycrap tracks, then you are saying you don't approve. Then we can see whose voice is louder, the polycrap purveyors and supporters or the horseplayers.THAT's the attitude horse players need! ATTABOY, Norm!! :ThmbUp:

[Kelso]

Not for nothing but seems like a great idea, then we could have a chance of 9 and 10 horses in most of the races all winter, sounds good to me..... time to get in the 21st century New York :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:Time to end cold-weather racing.

[DrunkenHorseplayer]

If NY installs Polycrap, I'm done.

John

As long as you can sell your products, you won't be going anywhere.

[john del riccio]

As long as you can sell your products, you won't be going anywhere.

That is definitely NOT true.

John

[cj]

That is definitely NOT true.

John

I think his board ID says it all John.

[David-LV]

If Belmont installs a synthetic surface, we will never ever have a horse going for the triple crown again.

You can't win two races on dirt and one race on a synthetic surface and call the horse a true triple crown winner.

New York, don't listen to the snake oil salemen that are pushing this Poly Crap.

This will be the biggest mistake that NYRA has ever made.

Those big betters that use the sheets in New York will vanish faster then a snowflake on a 40 degree day.

Be careful NYRA, you have been warned.

________
David

[Charlie D]

If NY installs Polycrap, I'm done.

John


Read many of your posts John since joining and the above surprises me tbh as i get impression you would have no real problem in being able to adapt and survive the sythetic

[john del riccio]

Read many of your posts John since joining and the above surprises me tbh as i get impression you would have no real problem in being able to adapt and survive the sythetic revolution

Charlie,

I think I am a little emotional these days, lost a good friend....


My biggest concern is that a triple crown race run over this stuff would
simply not "feel right" and that the game would become something other than what I have loved for so long. My results over poly-surfaces are OK, not as
good as dirt or turf and I also find them to be somewhat inconsistent.
Somedays its like shooting fish in a barrel (not many of those), other days
its llik eI am the fish...;)~

It (poly) takes purse speed out of the game to some degree but I think more than anything, it (sometimes) makes a marginal horse appear to be
more talented than it may be. Just my observations.

John

[the little guy]

Let me say it again....this is a completely erroneous report. Period. The comments were taken out of context and NYRA has no plans at this time to install synthetic surfaces.

Maybe it's me, but I feel like people are particularly jumpy these days, and seemingly willing to believe any crazy thing they hear. I understand, the industry does some pretty crazy things, so it's hard not to take things seriously. However, does this mean all rational thinking should go out the window?

[slewis]

Let me say it again....this is a completely erroneous report. Period. The comments were taken out of context and NYRA has no plans at this time to install synthetic surfaces.

Maybe it's me, but I feel like people are particularly jumpy these days, and seemingly willing to believe any crazy thing they hear. I understand, the industry does some pretty crazy things, so it's hard not to take things seriously. However, does this mean all rational thinking should go out the window?


If you were as jumpy like everyone else.. you still wouldn't be able to see over my head!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bobzilla]

Jay Hovdey's piece titled "Change Will Start With Tracks" describes, in large part, the true impetus for the trend towards synthetic conversions across North America. The realization that an unfettered free breeding market will continue to produce a product for the market that will sell, and that product these days is a lighter boned, faster, more precocious yet less durable thoroughbred, that will offer a higher chance to the buyers a quicker R.O.I.. Hovdey's piece suggests the only way that breeding practices will be altered is if the economic incentive to create quicker t-breds for dirt surfaces goes away. As Ayn Rand or Milton Friedman might say, the sellers and buyers are naturally going to follow the path of their own rational self-interests.

Another underlying reason, I feel, is the desire to internationalize the sport here in North America and make it more appealing to racing fans on other continents. Recent decisions by the Breeders' Cup, I would think, might support this idea. We've seen this trend in recent years with Baseball and Football. The dynamics of an American dirt race, with it's emphasis on early tactical speed, the importance of interior fractions, etc.,etc. are seemingly unique to America, and might be seen as a lesser form of horse racing to our friends overseas. Many seem surprised we're not readily embracing the synthetic revolution, given its alleged safety advantages.

As a full-time New York Player, the idea of my tracks going synthetic is an absolutely nauseating one. I also understand that if what Hovdey is saying is true than it might have to happen. I do my own figs everyday, have been for 2 decades. I compare my variants to that of Mr. Hopkins and the rest of the Beyer boys. A previous poster is 100% spot on when he states that racing on synthetic surfaces is not interchangeable with dirt racing, the races are in fact, a distinctly different game altogether. The loss of American dirt racing is a loss of something we love. Racing on an AWS, though ammusing and at times profitable, is not North American Main track racing. If triple crown races are held on AWS surfaces, we then lose the historical context in which to compare modern day performances to those of yesteryear. A synthetic triple crown winner would not have achieved the same feat as that of Secretariat, although it would have been majestic in its own way, but simply not the same. The indusrtry still tries to treat AWS races on a main track as it's just the same event as on dirt but on a safer alternative to dirt. To many of us that's offensively condescending, to think that we would not realize that an AWS is a third surface, and the races totally different.

I will say that CD did not do the cause of preserving our traditional dirt track heritage any favors by seemingly speeding up the track to help yield fast times. I would be interested to know what variants some of the figure makers on this site, such as CJ and John, had come up with for CD on Saturday.

[the little guy]

If you were as jumpy like everyone else.. you still wouldn't be able to see over my head!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, it's a good thing I'm such a grounded guy.

See you at Belmont in a couple hours.

[Charlie D]

Understand John and don't get me wrong when i say this, as i don't want to see Dirt racing disappear, but it would still be the Triple Crown, the difference to the Triple Crowns that had gone before would be the surface raced on

Look at SA Derby, there was nothing wrong with it, it produced a good race with a worthy winner.

Look at Louisiana Derby, there was nothing wrong with it, produced a good race with a worthy winner

Look at Flad Derby, nothing wrong with it, it produced a good race with an above average, maybe exceptional winner


Look at KD, look where these horse finshed - they finished where they probably should, it had nothing to do with surface

[fouroneone]

Let me say it again....this is a completely erroneous report. Period.

please extrapolate.

[Bobzilla]

I did see in Ed Fountaine's space in today's New York Post where NYRA spokesman John Lee said that there would be a meeting the end of July in Saratoga Springs. But he also stated that the NYRA is in no financial situation to be installing synthetic tracks anytime soon. He went on to say that when and if that happens the Belmont training track would be the logical first step.

Trainers Nick Zito and Dick Dutrow were also quoted, with the former saying synthetic surfaces are made of "stuff from your attic" and that more research into the feasibility of a state-of-th-art dirt surface would need to take place before spending "50 millian for synthetic garbage". The latter indicated he'd be "completely lost in a world of synthetic", that he isn't returning to CA any time soon and that he hoped that synthetics didn't invade the Empire State.

[rgustafson]

I did see in Ed Fountaine's space in today's New York Post where NYRA spokesman John Lee said that there would be a meeting the end of July in Saratoga Springs. But he also stated that the NYRA is in no financial situation to be installing synthetic tracks anytime soon. He went on to say that when and if that happens the Belmont training track would be the logical first step.

Trainers Nick Zito and Dick Dutrow were also quoted, with the former saying synthetic surfaces are made of "stuff from your attic" and that more research into the feasibility of a state-of-th-art dirt surface would need to take place before spending "50 millian for synthetic garbage". The latter indicated he'd be "completely lost in a world of synthetic", that he isn't returning to CA any time soon and that he hoped that synthetics didn't invade the Empire State.

Bobzilla, anything that Nick Zito has to say against synthetic surfaces is about as objective as what Michael Dickinson would say in favor of them. Zito would be hard pressed to win a race on a synthetic surface if his horse was the only one entered. You know the joke about a one car funeral, well that's Zito on a synthetic track.

[eastie]

please extrapolate.

pedant. or is this Howard Cosell from beyond the grave?;)