Big Brown wins!

[ny0707ny]

I am totally shocked. Able to overcome only 3 races and a wide post. The rest of the field did terrible. Pyro? Colonel John? That shows how bad this field was this year. Looks like we got a triple crown winner coming up soon. I give him a lot of credit.

[Tom]

But the question remains........with his connections, how did he do it?

[ny0707ny]

But the question remains........with his connections, how did he do it?

Brown won with the weakest field I ever seen. I give him credit still. I don't think the times were anything big im not sure.

My horse Colonel John came in 6th :mad:

[LottaKash]

The others were just glorified...nw3alw horses.....Pure good old fashioned powerful form vs. pretenders.......Every horse in this race had some serious flaw and red flags, and it showed up at the end.........3yo's....haha.......

Three cheers for Big Brown......if this were an ordinary race, which it is.....you probably would've had the winner.......

This is a new age of racing, and I honestly believe all that dosage crap etc.....has nothing to do with it anymore..... Powerful Good and Promising Form won it.......amen....

humbly,

[BombsAway Bob]

But the question remains........with his connections, how did he do it?
the super glue on his feet held together. Seriously, did anyone stay with the streaming video feed thru to the end? They had a wide angle shot of BB walking back with his handlers. I'm no expert, but he looked like he was walking on hot beach sand...IMHO.
But I FINALLY SAW A DERBY WINNER in Person(when he ran in his debut!)
Maybe racing will get their act together & let me bet on/against him in the Preakness...:lol:

[MNslappy]

No way am I betting against him in the next. I don't see anyone even in the same hemisphere right now.

It'd be perfectly fitting for the way racing is going right now too, with seemingly every Classic star being retired early, being injured, etc., for him to win the next out and then have the foot problems flare up, causing them to retire him. It'd just be par for the course lately, it happens to every star in the making it seems. (except Curlin of course)

[overthehill]

I think we just saw the next triple crown winner

[headhawg]

Probably will win the TC if his feet hold up, but to mention him in the same breath as the other TC winners will make me puke. The three-year old colts aren't much, are they?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Brown won with the weakest field I ever seen. I give him credit still. I don't think the times were anything big im not sure.

My horse Colonel John came in 6th :mad:


It may have been the weakest field as YOU say but he still won the Derby..Beating 19 horses doesnt make him weak to me..I would be forever grateful to have a horse like him..

[Semipro]

But the question remains........with his connections, how did he do it?Get over it.:rolleyes:

[Semipro]

It may have been the weakest field as YOU say but he still won the Derby..Beating 19 horses doesnt make him weak to me..I would be forever grateful to have a horse like him..Hell yes you are on the same page with me on this one. As brazen as it was Dutrow delivered the goods just like Joe Namath with his over the top confidence but that doesn't take anything from what the HORSE Big Brown is a very good racehorse but some people just seems to have a disdain for the horse because of the connections. I promise the horse has no idea as to the baggage of his trianer and should not be reflected on the horse's image or abilities. Get over it if you were wrong about him being the best of his crop just keep betting against him it will help the odds for me.

[The WindfallAngler]

No way am I betting against him in the next. I don't see anyone even in the same hemisphere right now.

I'll bet against him, though it won't be much, if only a gesture of solidarity (if you will) with a woefully unremembered Triple Crown Champion AFFIRMED.

Who, By God didn't even merit a mention, that I can recall. ...As usual.

Colonel John was a soundly beaten 6th, although he looked to be bothered by the gooey grit coming of the heels in front of him.

Haven't seen the chart.

[magwell]

I think we just saw the next triple crown winner trainer Dutrow did a great job with this colt i hope he stays sound and wins the TC.....

[A. Pineda]

This is a new age of racing, and I honestly believe all that dosage crap etc.....has nothing to do with it anymore..... Powerful Good and Promising Form won it.......amen....


I am in 90% agreement here, but the part of me that delights in playing with dosage figs during the TC series says hold on.

While the first three KD finishers could be played off past form, there is a case to be made for applying dosage figs as another separator. BB tied for second with his DI, and he had the second-most points in the classic category. He also had the second-most total points overall.

The unfortunate filly Eight Belles qualified, as she more or less split the field with her DI, classic points, and total points. DOC had the fourth lowest DI.

Of course, every coin has two sides, and Big Truck was the proud owner of the lowest DI yet had the highest ML, because performance trumps chef-de-race points.

I prefer to integrate the DP into my analysis rather than the DI or CD figs, which is why I spent way too much time (and a few pesos) on Adriano. Come to think of it, this dosage stuff really is a bunch of crap.;)

[Greyfox]

I think we just saw the next triple crown winner
:ThmbUp:Without a sweat.:ThmbUp: In the KD for sure.
On paper, he looked the part.
On the track he moved as one might have figured.
From a spectator viewpoint it wasn't an exciting race.

Personally, from today's, and previous performances,
he does look like a Triple Crown winner.
Afleet Alex should have won that title.
Will I bet against him? Absolutely.
Will I bet with him? You betcha! He's for real.

[Shenanigans]

Hats off to the horse. The trainer......I have a hard time celebrating a Derby win of a trainer that has numerous positives on their resume'. Sorry.
Quarter cracks on a horse are very hard to maintain and keep from being painful. Usually a horse needs time off for the hoof to grow out. Constant pounding from training and racing will not encourage healing. I will be curious as to how long this man will keep this horse together. I am more curious as to "what" he is holding him together with. Regardless, the horse has heart.

[Marshall Bennett]

Almost runs as if he has an extra set of lungs . Distance will never be a problem. Hope he stays sound .

[Skanoochies]

I don`t think very many of the also rans will be back to challenge in the next two. Maybe 5 or 6 including some new faces. If I owned any horse in todays Derby I would just say uncle. :)

[Greyfox]

I am totally shocked. Able to overcome only 3 races and a wide post. The rest of the field did terrible. Pyro? Colonel John? That shows how bad this field was this year. Looks like we got a triple crown winner coming up soon. I give him a lot of credit.

Beg your pardon? How could you be "totally shocked?"
You'd be very surprised as to how well this field compared against last year's field if you ran the numbers. This is a good crop.
Big Brown is a very good colt.

[ny0707ny]

Beg your pardon? How could you be "totally shocked?"
You'd be very surprised as to how well this field compared against last year's field if you ran the numbers. This is a good crop.
Big Brown is a very good colt.

Im shocked he won from post 20 and only 3 starts in his life. That is a big mountain to climb. Allow me to be shocked please! :D

[rastajenk]

That a favorite won shouldn't be shocking. That someone thinks this is a good crop, now that's a shocka. :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

That a favorite won shouldn't be shocking. That someone thinks this is a good crop, now that's a shocka. :eek:The fact is, most triple crown winners didn't get where they were by beating PROFOUNDLY SUPERIOR CROPS. Such scenarios lead to all three races being won by different horses.

Once again, I hope that folks don't let their disdain for Dutrow deny them the thrill of watching this horse compete. That was something special out there today, and if you couldn't see it because you don't like Dutrow, well, then I feel sorry for you....

[ManeMediaMogul]

Hell yes you are on the same page with me on this one. As brazen as it was Dutrow delivered the goods just like Joe Namath with his over the top confidence but that doesn't take anything from what the HORSE Big Brown is a very good racehorse but some people just seems to have a disdain for the horse because of the connections. I promise the horse has no idea as to the baggage of his trianer and should not be reflected on the horse's image or abilities. Get over it if you were wrong about him being the best of his crop just keep betting against him it will help the odds for me.

Excellent post!

Let's not take anything away from Big Brown. He is an awesome racehorse and has been before Dutrow ever got his hands on him. His maiden-breaker at Saratoga, when trained by Patrick Reynolds, was the best debut I have ever seen and he has built on that.

Despite all the negative Dutrow talk on this forum, he and farrier Ian Mckinley did keep Big Brown's feet together and Dutrow prepared him perfectly for the race.

Big Brown was the best horse in the race and he won in a waltz under a perfect ride by Hall of Fame jockey Kent Desormeaux.

I was at Big Brown's maiden-breaker and I was at the Derby yesterday. Both were exceptional performances by an exceptional horse - definitely the best Kentucky Derby performance in a long time.

[slewis]

But the question remains........with his connections, how did he do it?

I just want to let you and everyone else know that there is (was) a FULL time ARMED Louisville Sheriff police officer stationed at BIG BROWN (and every other DERBY runner) 24 hours a day from the moment he arrives at Churchill.

I know because I was there. I asked the sheriff assigned to our horse and he told me "Wherever your horse goes, I go".

[nobeyerspls]

I am totally shocked. Able to overcome only 3 races and a wide post. The rest of the field did terrible. Pyro? Colonel John? That shows how bad this field was this year. Looks like we got a triple crown winner coming up soon. I give him a lot of credit.

He won the Fla Derby from post twelve and the Ky Derby from post twenty. In the Preakness he will start from the third row of the grandstand and still win.
His time wasn't bad either given his post and the headwinds in the stretch.
He sure looks like a TC winner unless some fresh horse with talent shows up in the Belmont.
For the record, I used him under three horses one of which was Dennis of Cork.

[furlong21]

I commend Brown for a tremendous race. However, I believe the TC talk is a little premature. There is no question he towers above this crop. However, he will have 2 races in 14 days and, considering, his resume/feet the TC trail will a stiff test of his durability.

For the record I was on Gayego in the 2nd furture book at 111-1. Looked good for the 1st 1/16; the last 9 1/2 furlongs not so much.

[asH]

Big Brown's first 3 races now 4 were eye openers....

This is the Derby! there are always horses getting into problems early in the race, it's really unfair to denigrate any of these from this race alone. Big Brown, from post 20 avoided many problems others had on the inside.

[chickenhead]

I did not think he'd be able to win that easily after going wide on both turns. I thought he was the most likely winner, but the scenario that unfolded was one that I thought could get him beat.

I was obviously wrong about how good he was. Finishing like he did after going 4W while forwardly placed on both turns of a 10F race is no joke.

Just as troublesome, I was wrong about how much the exotics would pay with him winning. $1700-1 for that tri was more than equitable.

[boomman]

The fact is, most triple crown winners didn't get where they were by beating PROFOUNDLY SUPERIOR CROPS. Such scenarios lead to all three races being won by different horses.

Once again, I hope that folks don't let their disdain for Dutrow deny them the thrill of watching this horse compete. That was something special out there today, and if you couldn't see it because you don't like Dutrow, well, then I feel sorry for you....

Mike: Props to the horse and I will be excited to watch him attempt to win the triple crown... (and I certainly think he has a chance to do it if his feet hold together, but obviously with only 4 lifetime starts under his belt, that is an issue) but in no way will I EVER give props to a trainer with multiple positives, and the disdainment for Dutrow that people feel, he has brought upon himself...Dutrow doesn't deserve accolades and shouldn't receive any....But I do agree with you: Let's concentrate on this horse for the good of the sport and just hope that all of the guys who are cheating (like the obvious ones in Dutrow, Vaders, et all) eventually are brought to justice, and not at the expense of our sport, so that we can enjoy it for many years to come.........

Boomer

[Cratos]

Brown won with the weakest field I ever seen. I give him credit still. I don't think the times were anything big im not sure.

My horse Colonel John came in 6th :mad:


Big Brown time was excellent and he ran a very good race and when compared to the average Ky Derby pace and final time over the last 60 years he ran a helluva race. Additionally, I didn't have dime on him because I didn't think he would or could win the Derby

Big Brown Race (last 60 years average KY Derby pace and final time)

1st Qtr: 23:55 - (23.06)

2nd Qtr: 23.91 – (23.56)

3rd Qtr: 24.27 – (24.63)

4th Qtr: 24.84 – (25.33)

Final Qtr: 25.26 (25.65)

Final Time: 2:01.82 – (2:02.22)

Obviously the Churchill Downs surface speed resistance variant for the Derby has to be taken into account, but two things comes to my mind after reviewing Big Brown’s Ky Derby pace/final time and they are he is a very good horse (better than I thought) and he will be a tough competitor during the rest of the TC races if he stays healthy and his connections chooses to run him.

[ny0707ny]

Big Brown time was excellent and he ran a very good race and when compared to the average Ky Derby pace and final time over the last 60 years he ran a helluva race. Additionally, I didn't have dime on him because I didn't think he would or could win the Derby

Big Brown Race (last 60 years average KY Derby pace and final time)

1st Qtr: 23:55 - (23.06)

2nd Qtr: 23.91 – (23.56)

3rd Qtr: 24.27 – (24.63)

4th Qtr: 24.84 – (25.33)

Final Qtr: 25.26 (25.65)

Final Time: 2:01.82 – (2:02.22)

Obviously the Churchill Downs surface speed resistance variant for the Derby has to be taken into account, but two things comes to my mind after reviewing Big Brown’s Ky Derby pace/final time and they are he is a very good horse (better than I thought) and he will be a tough competitor during the rest of the TC races if he stays healthy and his connections chooses to run him.

Curlin today would destroy him in a race. He has big potential though. I liked BB, but just not for the Derby race. I want to see the Beyer figure he gets.

[Cratos]

Curlin today would destroy him in a race. He has big potential though. I liked BB, but just not for the Derby race. I want to see the Beyer figure he gets.


Last year on this forum I picked Curlin to win the Derby (which he lost), to win the Preakness, and the BC Classic both of which he won.

But comparing Big Brown to a seasoned Grade 1/Group 1 winner in Curlin at this time is ridiculous. Yes, later in the year it will be great for racing if both Curlin and Big Brown met and both are healthy and at the top of their games.

But for now it is good to just enjoy Big Brown’s Derby win.

[Semipro]

Last year on this forum I picked Curlin to win the Derby (which he lost), to win the Preakness, and the BC Classic both of which he won.

But comparing Big Brown to a seasoned Grade 1/Group 1 winner in Curlin at this time is ridiculous. Yes, later in the year it will be great for racing if both Curlin and Big Brown met and both are healthy and at the top of their games.

But for now it is good to just enjoy Big Brown’s Derby win.Absolutely the question is will he move forward as Curlin did or will his physical problems allow this not to happen.I do know this the stride he got into in the middle stretch was a very rare gear seen in a racehorse if he can get through his feet problems he will give Curlin a race for his money

[Semipro]

Excellent post!

Let's not take anything away from Big Brown. He is an awesome racehorse and has been before Dutrow ever got his hands on him. His maiden-breaker at Saratoga, when trained by Patrick Reynolds, was the best debut I have ever seen and he has built on that.

Despite all the negative Dutrow talk on this forum, he and farrier Ian Mckinley did keep Big Brown's feet together and Dutrow prepared him perfectly for the race.

Big Brown was the best horse in the race and he won in a waltz under a perfect ride by Hall of Fame jockey Kent Desormeaux.

I was at Big Brown's maiden-breaker and I was at the Derby yesterday. Both were exceptional performances by an exceptional horse - definitely the best Kentucky Derby performance in a long time.Dutrow may be a renegade but I think he knows horses about as well as anyone.I myself has no right to cast the first stone at anyone and not really fond of pompous sinners that do.

[chickenhead]

Dutrow may be a renegade but I think he knows horses about as well as anyone.I myself has no right to cast the first stone at anyone and not really fond of pompous sinners that do.

Anyone who wagers money, or is even just a fan, has not only the right but maybe the responsibility to demand a zero tolerance policy, which needless to say, would mean Dick (along with many others) would no longer be training.

[PaceAdvantage]

Bill Mott included I suppose...zero tolerance....

(anybody cringing yet?)

[chickenhead]

I don't know what his excuse was, but if you/we/whomever wants to assume it was an honest mistake (inadvertant lidocaine?).....if we had a zero tolerance policy maybe the "mistake" wouldn't have been made in the first place.

[Semipro]

I don't know what his excuse was, but if you/we/whomever wants to assume it was an honest mistake (inadvertant lidocaine?).....if we had a zero tolerance policy maybe the "mistake" wouldn't have been made in the first place.So it's a mistake if Mott does it but a greater offence for others.No because we bet we cannot hold people to a perfect standard. Have you ever lived in a stall with a microwave and TV.It's a different world with lots of temptations I believe in the old Indian saying don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins.

[Shenanigans]

Bill Mott included I suppose...zero tolerance....

(anybody cringing yet?)

How many pos. test has Mott had compared to Dutrow? Look, trainers get bad tests, but when you get guys like Dutrow and Asmussen that just keep getting them and they are only slapped on the hand it tends to make one question how many are they actually getting away with by masking and such.
What they are getting pos. test on is another debate. For instance, Pletchers ruling was for mepivicaine. It's a legal substance but his test was over the limit. From what I am hearing about the other two, they are getting caught with illegal substance. Big difference IMO.

[chickenhead]

No because we bet we cannot hold people to a perfect standard.

Sure we can. It seems to work out pretty well for the places that do.

The Olympics sometimes takes medals away for some pretty petty overages also, I don't hear a lot of complaining. Everyone knows the rules.


Have you ever lived in a stall with a microwave and TV.It's a different world with lots of temptations I believe in the old Indian saying don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins.

I've never lived in a stall, and I'm pretty sure no one forced Dutrow to either.

[Kelso]

Anyone who wagers money, or is even just a fan, has not only the right but maybe the responsibility to demand a zero tolerance policy, which needless to say, would mean Dick (along with many others) would no longer be training.

Zero tolerance. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: For owners, too.

Doesn't necessarily mean a life sentence for first-timers. First strike six-months. Second strike two years. Three and yer out! Any cell-phone end-arounds and it's over for good ... including all co-conspirators.

It's the only manageable way to end the problem. Anything less is too open to manipulation through favoritism and finger-pointing.

Might mean the end of the mega-trainer, so that trainers keep closer tabs on what happens to all of their charges ... but so what? (Maybe more trainers should sleep with the horses. :D )