This has to happen first

[Valupix]

I honestly can not think of a single industry more dysfunctional than the horse racing industry.

Pretty much every group involved with this game needs, wants and deserves a better situation and a more appropriate cut of the pie.

But I am 100% convinced of this;

Not one single progressive factor will fall into place and stay in place without financially stable and more specifically consistently stable and profitable racetracks.

They control the organization and promotion of the game. They are not the show, but they are the one that put the show on.

They are the bodies that directly oversee the gambling patrons of this game. Those gambling patrons that account for 90% of this games funding. (You and I of course)

Tracks have no motivation and will never have motivation to further the quality of the races they organize. Nor do they or will they have motivation to invest the money to promote and advance this game and sport. And they will not have the ability nor the motivation to improve the service they offer to the very gambling public that is the lifeblood of the funding that fuels this sport. Just as the patrons and customers of any industry supply the financial funding that fuels the prosperity and group of those industries.



None of us believes it will ever happen, I know. But what I am convinced of is that it can not happen without financially stable and profitable racetracks. Nothing else will motive them as nothing else motives any company in any industry to innovate and growth the industry.

I am a little ashamed that we the gamblers do not recognize this fact and ashamed that so many have taken the side against many of these racetrack groups that are attempting to further such financial stability.

We should not expect any business to operate without profits. Nothing functions properly without that as a foundation. There will be no other way to success in this game without it becoming true and stay true for very long periods of time.

None of the other groups involved with the sport will ever see the success they themselves wish without tracks being financially sound, making money and having the ability to see growth in those profits. Not the horseman, not the breeders, not the jockeys, and not us the gamblers. Nor anyone else.

I know most of us don't want to accept it but the tracks will have to be the first ones to reap the benefits before anyone else ever will see what they want. There is no other motivation that will cause everything else to fall into place.

[BillW]

T.J.

I agree with your premise of the tracks needing to be successful. That does not absolve the tracks from blame though. A successful company is one that can offer a product at a price that the customer agrees is of value and still allows the company to make a profit. When the customer (we, the horseplayer) is unhappy with the product and hear from the tracks that the only problem with the industry is that they don't charge enough, a negative feeling results. As in all cases it is the responsibility of the company to be successful, not the customer. As I re-read your post, I guess this must be part of the disfunction you refer to. :bang:

[Kelso]

None of the other groups involved with the sport will ever see the success they themselves wish without tracks being financially sound, making money and having the ability to see growth in those profits.
It's true enough that tracks manage the game and that there are few incentives as effective as profit. But track managers have demonstrated themselves to be absolutely abysmal managers.

The problem begins with their blind refusal to accept the reality that they are now in a COMPETITIVE business. Thirty years ago they had a near-absolute monopoly on legal gambling. Those days are long gone ... and they will never return.

Denying the competitive nature of the GAMBLING INDUSTRY (not horse industry) in which they seek to thrive dooms them to failure. Track management, on the whole, has demonstrated that they are too damned stupid, too damned stubborn and too damned incompetent to realize that without effectively competing for CUSTOMERS ... i.e., GAMGLERS ... they will fail.

Beyond customer satisfaction, asset management is crucial to tracks' survival. The most important financial asset of any business is, of course, cash. Tracks can go far toward ensuring financial viability by stopping the insane practice of revenue-sharing with horsemen.

Tracks that are dumb enough to guarantee the horsmen, or any other group that they hire, a percentage of ANY revenue source ... on-track, off-track, gate, hospitality, advertising, broadcasting, ANYTHING ... only encourage those same groups to try to sate their greed by dipping their beaks into all the other sources (such as, let's say, ADW/OTB fees?).

Attract horsemen with purses and facilities ... and nothing else. That means, the owners should have only three primary considerations when deciding where to race their horses ... the TRACK, the PURSES and the BACKSTRETCH. (To be sure, there are other, lesser concerns, as well.) But tracks have to make clear to ALL of the help ... from janitors to bartenders to tellers to horsemen ... that how the track raises cash, and what it does with that cash beyond salaries and purses, is none of their damned business!

I believe most players wish the tracks well. Most players are sufficiently intelligent, and human, to want all racing groups to do well. So I think most agree with the thrust of your position. I know I do.

But track managers have to do their jobs a hell of a lot better than they have been over the past few decades ... or the players WILL simply go elsewhere.

(I think it's also high time to give serious thought to reducing the number of tracks; and to managing schedules ... and other important issues ... on a nationwide basis.)

[Tom]

Here! Here!

If horsemen want to run track, let them buy thier own.
Otherwise, wipe your feet and go sit in your box.

[jcrabboy]

Has either side expressed an interest in arbitration or is that already occuring? Right now, it seems to me, the Horsemen are shooting themselves in the foot. Lone Star is cutting purses 10% as of May 8th. I asume other tracks have either already done so or wll follow suit. The ADW revenue is going down a rat hole, prices are going up on everything from oats to shoes in the current economic crunch and the racing seasons are moving along at quick clip regardless of simulcasting dollars, etc.

They need to find a neutral party, but quick, to arbitrate this Cluster F*** and abide by the that party's final decision.

At least I think that is what should happen in a rational scenario, but in the rarified atmosphere of Horse Racing - who knows?

[rrbauer]

Valuepix:
"But what I am convinced of is that it can not happen without financially stable and profitable racetracks.temp Nothing else will motive them as nothing else motives any company in any industry to innovate and growth the industry.

I am a little ashamed that we the gamblers do not recognize this fact and ashamed that so many have taken the side against many of these racetrack groups that are attempting to further such financial stability."

Comment:
Could you lay out some specifics? Particularly, those racetrack groups "that are attempting to further such financial stability" and the steps those groups are taking in that regard. How are these groups improving the product? If anyone needs to bear shame over the current state of affairs it's the people who have caused the mess, which certainly isn't the horseplayers. If anything the "gamblers" have been overwhelmingly supportive of an industry that hasn't done squat to earn that support.

[bigchump]

Since 1970, my record in the Derby is 37/6.
They will only allow me to bet on one single race with a record like that?
I don't think so...unless they're NUTS.

[jasperson]

Valuepix:
"But what I am convinced of is that it can not happen without financially stable and profitable racetracks.temp Nothing else will motive them as nothing else motives any company in any industry to innovate and growth the industry.

I am a little ashamed that we the gamblers do not recognize this fact and ashamed that so many have taken the side against many of these racetrack groups that are attempting to further such financial stability."

Comment:
Could you lay out some specifics? Particularly, those racetrack groups "that are attempting to further such financial stability" and the steps those groups are taking in that regard. How are these groups improving the product? If anyone needs to bear shame over the current state of affairs it's the people who have caused the mess, which certainly isn't the horseplayers. If anything the "gamblers" have been overwhelmingly supportive of an industry that hasn't done squat to earn that support.
How about trying a novel approach like on Saturdays allow families to come in and pay a cooler fee like $15 so the whole family can come in and have a picnic with out paying an arm and a leg. I may have a revolutionary idea that horse racing is a much more attractive sport than watch cars go around the track for about 3 hrs hoping for an accident. To take your wife and kids to Lonestar park you have to pay $2 to park $3 for each to get in and if you want a program for you and your with that is another $7.oo. Now add in $4.50 for a beer and #2.50 for water and now we are talking some money. My point being my daughter already calls the racetrack the old people home. what are racetracks going to do when the old people die or be come so infirmed that they can no longer go to the track and bet off track. I am 80 yrs old and who is going to replace me when I die? We have the best product in the world but we are not selling it. Car racing sells cars and drivers and we could do the same thing with a little inventivenace,but we must get them to the race track to do it. This does mean we should rob them blind each time they come out.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

How about trying a novel approach like on Saturdays allow families to come in and pay a cooler fee like $15 so the whole family can come in and have a picnic with out paying an arm and a leg. I may have a revolutionary idea that horse racing is a much more attractive sport than watch cars go around the track for about 3 hrs hoping for an accident

Pay a $15 fee to eat your own food and drink your own beverages? That's a novel approach!

Give all kids 12 and under a complimentary $5 wagering voucher. That's novel!

The cars go around the track for 3 hours straight, not for a minute or two every 30 minutes. Big difference.

[Valupix]

Could you lay out some specifics? Particularly, those racetrack groups "that are attempting to further such financial stability" and the steps those groups are taking in that regard. How are these groups improving the product? If anyone needs to bear shame over the current state of affairs it's the people who have caused the mess, which certainly isn't the horseplayers. If anything the "gamblers" have been overwhelmingly supportive of an industry that hasn't done squat to earn that support.

I think you missed my point. They are not going to improve the product to they patrons until they have motivation. That motivation will only be the same motivation every other business in every other industry has to advance those industries. Profits.

You can hate it all you want. But motivation is the only thing that will cause anything positive to happen and profits are the only motivation that will do the trick.

[Valupix]

Since 1970, my record in the Derby is 37/6.
They will only allow me to bet on one single race with a record like that?
I don't think so...unless they're NUTS.

The problem is you are not recognizing who it is that has decided not to allow you to wager on those undercard races.

[Tampa Russ]

How about trying a novel approach like on Saturdays allow families to come in and pay a cooler fee like $15 so the whole family can come in and have a picnic with out paying an arm and a leg.

How about the Tampa Bay Downs approach? Large tent at the 1/8th pole...free entry..bring all the food and drink you want. I think they started this 3 or 4 seasons ago, and the tent continues to become more popular each year.

[rrbauer]

I think you missed my point. They are not going to improve the product to they patrons until they have motivation. That motivation will only be the same motivation every other business in every other industry has to advance those industries. Profits.

You can hate it all you want. But motivation is the only thing that will cause anything positive to happen and profits are the only motivation that will do the trick.


Clearly I missed your point. And, even more clearly, you did not answer my questions. So stop giving credit to track owners where NONE is due. There is no way out for most of the current track owners because they refuse to do what is necessary to improve their profits and that is to reduce racing days so that field sizes will increase and the game will become more competitive; and, stop the incessant drive to conduct year-round racing in hostile climate environments. There must be some reason that the best and most profitable race meets are either seasonal or limited in nature.

When racing associations refuse to do what is necessary to improve the product then their only motivation is to milk the status quo for all it's worth. And, that is exactly what they're doing.

[citygoat]

Is it so very difficult to have a results board so I can check my tickets or see

what has happened befpre I arrived without having to trust the sam machine or

having the seller punching tickets punch me up the results?

Service is getting as rare as an Earlie Fires win these days.

The coin operated car wash is more organized and customer friendly.

Their service is why I bet more online than eight miles away.

[Kelso]

do what is necessary to improve their profits and that is to reduce racing days so that field sizes will increase and the game will become more competitive; and, stop the incessant drive to conduct year-round racing in hostile climate environments. There must be some reason that the best and most profitable race meets are either seasonal or limited in nature.
What Rich said! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Valupix]

Clearly I missed your point. And, even more clearly, you did not answer my questions. So stop giving credit to track owners where NONE is due. There is no way out for most of the current track owners because they refuse to do what is necessary to improve their profits and that is to reduce racing days so that field sizes will increase and the game will become more competitive; and, stop the incessant drive to conduct year-round racing in hostile climate environments. There must be some reason that the best and most profitable race meets are either seasonal or limited in nature.

When racing associations refuse to do what is necessary to improve the product then their only motivation is to milk the status quo for all it's worth. And, that is exactly what they're doing.
There was nothing about what was trying to say that was giving credit to anyone.

What they have done, are doing or will do has nothing to do with this one point.

Maybe, after they have the motivation, just like many business in many industries some of them will do stupid none productive things with the efforts they implement. Just like the takeout hike at Calder recently. Not productive in anyway shape or form. But it will only take time for them to learn that.

Again, I defended no one. It had nothing to do with my point. I am 100% sure they will not do anything productive and sustainable without the motivation of profits. But even with the motivation there is still the chance they will not make the correct moves to accomplish productive and sustainable progress. But It’s an easy choice for me, 100% chance nothing productive will happen as it is now, or some sort of chance however small that they might do something right if the motivation to seriously try were to be in place.

[GlenninOhio]

I think you missed my point. They are not going to improve the product to they patrons until they have motivation. That motivation will only be the same motivation every other business in every other industry has to advance those industries. Profits.

You can hate it all you want. But motivation is the only thing that will cause anything positive to happen and profits are the only motivation that will do the trick.

This reminds me of the attitude of the least successful small market baseball teams over the past decade or two, a perfect example of which (near and dear to me) is the Cincinnati Reds.

Their profits depend (much more so than for the large market teams) on attendance levels at the ballpark and attendance at the ballpark is driven by the quality of the "product" - the win-loss record of the team.

Ownership won't spend the money necessary to acquire the quality players needed to make a difference on the field until attendance increases and profits rise, but attendance will not increase until they improve their product by spending the money to acquire the quality players. And so it goes - in an ongoing downward spiral.

The bottom line is that ownership must make the first move in situations like this, and the smart ones - the ones who know that you need to spend money (now) to improve the product and the experience in order to make more money (later) - get the job done while the rest wring their hands and say "Woe is me" or, worse yet, say there's something wrong with their customers.

[Valupix]

This reminds me of the attitude of the least successful small market baseball teams over the past decade or two, a perfect example of which (near and dear to me) is the Cincinnati Reds.

Their profits depend (much more so than for the large market teams) on attendance levels at the ballpark and attendance at the ballpark is driven by the quality of the "product" - the win-loss record of the team.

Ownership won't spend the money necessary to acquire the quality players needed to make a difference on the field until attendance increases and profits rise, but attendance will not increase until they improve their product by spending the money to acquire the quality players. And so it goes - in an ongoing downward spiral.

The bottom line is that ownership must make the first move in situations like this, and the smart ones - the ones who know that you need to spend money (now) to improve the product and the experience in order to make more money (later) - get the job done while the rest wring their hands and say "Woe is me" or, worse yet, say there's something wrong with their customers.

Our problem in this industry is that when the tracks do find a way to generate a few more bucks one of the many other groups in the game want to jump in a take a big chunk of it.

They should eventually get they fair share of that new money, but if they don't wait for the tracks to become financially stable for an extended time. No compounding effect will be possible. Compounding profits, in other words reinvested back into the business to generate even more profits down the road, are the fuel to all prospering businesses and industries.

Until tracks have established a strong financial footing and have been able to comfortably feel they can make profits for an extended time, they will not invest and innovate in an aggressive manner. The compounding will never be able to take the first step.

It’s not going to allowed to happen, but as much as so many don’t want to accept it, it is the only way to the prosperity we wish for this industry.