Bob Evans Identifies Why Horse Racing Is Languishing

[Cangamble]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/27/AR2008042702271.html

Congrats Bob, you identified the problem:
'Putting it as succinctly as possible, Evans, 55, who has been in charge at Churchill the past two years, summed up racing's problems like this: "Eventually, people get tired of losing money."'
*********************
But let me go further. Horse players get tired of losing and quit or bet less. Eventually everyone dies. Horse racing has not been able to attract enough bettors to replace the old ones. The internet has made people aware of other forms of betting where winning is a lot more likely. Such as poker and sports betting which have much much lower rakes.

So Bob identified the problem. What is his solution?
"I think we probably have a future with fewer races and maybe even fewer tracks. Clearly, we're on a path to fewer races."

How about the same amount of races and racetracks, and much lower takeouts?

Bob Evans is a defeatist. He has clearly given up on the concept of getting new bettors. Because he KNOWS that getting new bettors means drastically changing the way racetracks do business today and price their gambling product.

[ryesteve]

Evans, 55, who has been in charge at Churchill the past two years, summed up racing's problems like this: "Eventually, people get tired of losing money."
Did anyone ask him why casinos always seem to be full of people?

[Cangamble]

Did anyone ask him why casinos always seem to be full of people?
It is called getting a bang for your buck. You can last on a $10 blackjack table for hours with a $200 bankroll, and in the end, you might even have made a few bucks because the house rake is something like 1.5%.
If you go to the track with $200, you expect to go home broke, and you are lucky to last through the card (including simulcast wagering) before going broke.

[ryesteve]

I wasn't asking for the answer. I was asking if Evans understood that there ARE successful business models built around "people losing money"

[thelyingthief]

complaints made by the industry about the industry are disingenuous. why is horseracing so tremendously popular in so many others cultures? why do the hong kong race pools exceed 1 billion US PER RACE? why, if racing is so hopeless an industry have the venues proliferated over the recent years?

hmm.

the problem devolves once more on issues peripheral to the racing (or, insert any other) industry proper: lack-wits born into good money with privileged positions (ala g. bush) without sound brains between their ears, blaming everyone other than themselves for their own incompetence.

so it seems to me.

but then, i'm a two-legged animal.

tlt.

[Cangamble]

complaints made by the industry about the industry are disingenuous. why is horseracing so tremendously popular in so many others cultures? why do the hong kong race pools exceed 1 billion US PER RACE? why, if racing is so hopeless an industry have the venues proliferated over the recent years?

hmm.

the problem devolves once more on issues peripheral to the racing (or, insert any other) industry proper: lack-wits born into good money with privileged positions (ala g. bush) without sound brains between their ears, blaming everyone other than themselves for their own incompetence.

so it seems to me.

but then, i'm a two-legged animal.

tlt.
I believe the track takeout in Hong Kong is 12% for all wagers.

[jonnielu]

I believe the track takeout in Hong Kong is 12% for all wagers.

The answer is obvious, we are now seeing the effect of a lost generation of racing fans. Perhaps 2 generations of racing fans have been dis-illusioned with speed figures and computer programs, that aren't worth a damn for predicting the outcome of a horserace They insist the racing comply with their point of view, such as it does in the NY market, then while the endless procession of high figure/low priced favorites win all day long on the scraped down tracks, so that they can collect their .40 cents, they snivel all day long about take-out.

Horse racing should just go back to horse racing to drive them to the casinos faster and this re-building spell will be over quicker.

Track management should promote third parties to teach proper horse race analysis in the meantime so that there won't be more lost-generations.

jdl

[BombsAway Bob]

I wasn't asking for the answer. I was asking if Evans understood that there ARE successful business models built around "people losing money"
like 1-800-CashCall ...:lol:

[DJofSD]

Bob Evans has GM disease -- what's good for GM is good for the country.

That truism went out the window a long time ago.

Bob Evans is trying to do what is best for CD. He believes he can fix the problems of CD and at the same time fix all of racing. He thinks they are one in the same.

So the question becomes does Evans and CD have the answers?

[Tom]

He does know sausage, though. :p


Compare customer treatment at a casino to a track.
>More action
>Free stuff
>No parking fees
>Customer is king, not the "help"
>No continual rumors of wheel fixing or dice doping
>No crap to have to buy - form, program,
>happy atmoshpere

[asH]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/27/AR2008042702271.html

So Bob identified the problem. What is his solution?
"I think we probably have a future with fewer races and maybe even fewer tracks. Clearly, we're on a path to fewer races."



Well, he's certainly insuring that part, at Calder . But thats Ok cause his friends at Magna, who happens to own GP will help control the situation.

http://www.mysportsbook.com/news/sports_betting/277658.html

[ryesteve]

Perhaps 2 generations of racing fans have been dis-illusioned with speed figures

... the NY market, then while the endless procession of high figure/low priced favorites win all day long on the scraped down tracks
Is there anything that you DON'T blame on speed figures? Hey, the weather here the past couple of days has been lousy... should I blame Beyer?

And your characterization of NY racing is completely without any factual basis whatsoever. Favorites don't win any more often in NY than anywhere else, and top fig horses don't win more often in NY than anywhere else.

And what's this comment I see about "scraped down tracks"?? Aren't you the one who keeps mocking people for "whining" about differences in surfaces that you claim are figments of their imagination? How ironic that the one time you do see a surface difference, it actually IS a figment of your imagination!

[cj]

The answer is obvious, we are now seeing the effect of a lost generation of racing fans. Perhaps 2 generations of racing fans have been dis-illusioned with speed figures and computer programs, that aren't worth a damn for predicting the outcome of a horserace They insist the racing comply with their point of view, such as it does in the NY market, then while the endless procession of high figure/low priced favorites win all day long on the scraped down tracks, so that they can collect their .40 cents, they snivel all day long about take-out.

Horse racing should just go back to horse racing to drive them to the casinos faster and this re-building spell will be over quicker.

Track management should promote third parties to teach proper horse race analysis in the meantime so that there won't be more lost-generations.

jdl

Are you smoking something?

[Cangamble]

Is there anything that you DON'T blame on speed figures? Hey, the weather here the past couple of days has been lousy... should I blame Beyer?


Reality to why new players haven't been created.
Beyers or other Speed Figures are available everywhere. This took a huge edge out of speed handicappers. No new edge was created.
Sophisticated drug usage, hiding drugs with Lasix has made racing more unpredictable. No new edge was created.
Slot players, who formerly made up a lot of the dumb money has been taken out of the pools. No new edge has been created.
Whales bet bigger and have a higher ROI than the average horseplayer that is left in the game, which actually makes the ROI of the average horseplayer left in the game even worse. No edged has been created to compensate for this.
Track takeouts have increased collectively over the last 20 years. No edge has been created to compensate for this.
With more tracks to bet at an ADW or at the track, players go broke quicker.

Less winners (close to zero, but not quite) equals less BUZZ. It is difficult to create new players in this environment especially when the new competition of online sports betting and poker have many known winners.....or at least those who can break even.

Less people come close to breaking even. This is a huge factor in getting people to be turned off and find another way to gamble.

The game is intimidating for newbies as well. Speed figure handicapping and recent form is the best way for newbies to get acquainted with the game. No real edge for speed figure handicappers coupled with major form inconsistencies due to drugging has made potential newbies look elsewhere.

[saratoga guy]

To tell the truth, when I read the quote, "Eventually, people get tired of losing money," I assumed he was speaking of racetracks operators and horsepeople -- and the rest of the article seems to support that notion ("There isn't enough handle per race to make the economics work for owners, trainers and track operators.")

[Steve 'StatMan']

complaints made by the industry about the industry are disingenuous. why is horseracing so tremendously popular in so many others cultures? why do the hong kong race pools exceed 1 billion US PER RACE? why, if racing is so hopeless an industry have the venues proliferated over the recent years?

hmm.

the problem devolves once more on issues peripheral to the racing (or, insert any other) industry proper: lack-wits born into good money with privileged positions (ala g. bush) without sound brains between their ears, blaming everyone other than themselves for their own incompetence.

so it seems to me.

but then, i'm a two-legged animal.

tlt.

There is no Casino Gambling in Hong Kong. Horse racing was huge in the U.S. before Casino Gambling expanded beyond Nevada and into many states with Race Tracks.

[cj]

There is no Casino Gambling in Hong Kong. Horse racing was huge in the U.S. before Casino Gambling expanded beyond Nevada and into many states with Race Tracks.

Off the top of my head, I don't think that is right.

[Cangamble]

Off the top of my head, I don't think that is right.
The top of your head is correct (though casino gambling is relatively new there):

Gambling Enclave Macau Stops Issuing New Casino Licenses
http://i.cdn.turner.com/money/.element/img/1.0/branding/dj_logo.gif (http://www.dj.com/) April 22, 2008: 08:34 AM EST

cnnad_createAd("654903","http://ads.cnn.com/html.ng/site=cnn_money&cnn_money_pagetype=article&cnn_money_position=220x200_ctr&cnn_money_rollup=markets_and_stocks&cnn_money_section=quigo&params.styles=fs","200","220");

HONG KONG (AP)--The Macau government will not issue any new casino licenses in the near future in this Chinese gambling enclave, its leader said Tuesday.

Speaking to lawmakers, Edmund Ho acknowledged that the gaming industry, one of Macau's strongest business sectors, has helped stabilize the enclave's economy and improve its living conditions since the industry was liberalized in 2002.

"We're now at a stage to review and estimate the development of the industry ... We decided not to issue any new casino concessions, including casino sub- concessions," Ho said during a question and answer session with legislators Tuesday.

"The current gaming system consists of three concessions and another three sub-concessions will likely be maintained for a long time."

The administration also will not approve new application from the territory's 28 casinos for additional gambling tables and slot machines, Ho added.

The former Portuguese colony opened the doors to Las Vegas-style casinos after it ended a four-decade old gambling monopoly held by casino magnate Stanley Ho in early 2002. Since then the territory has handed out six casino licenses to several operators, including Ho.

American Sheldon Adelson was the first outsider to enter the territory, opening the Sands Macau in 2004, and then opened last August the US$2.4 billion Venetian, a Las Vegas style mega casino-resort complete with Italian gondolas punting down indoor canals.

Other rivals include the US$1.1 billion Wynn and the Crown Macau, a joint venture between Australia's Publishing & Broadcasting Ltd. and Hong Kong-based Melco International Development Ltd.(0200.HK). The US$1.25 billion MGM Grand also opened in December.They all have positioned themselves as high-end casinos.

Macau, the only place in China where gambling is legal, is rivaling the entire U.S. state of Nevada in gaming revenue. Last year, casinos in Macau raked in more than US$10.3 billion in gaming revenue, according to the government.

Macau, about 60 kilometers west of Hong Kong, returned to Chinese rule in 1999.

[Gambleonclaimers]

It is called getting a bang for your buck. You can last on a $10 blackjack table for hours with a $200 bankroll, and in the end, you might even have made a few bucks because the house rake is something like 1.5%.
If you go to the track with $200, you expect to go home broke, and you are lucky to last through the card (including simulcast wagering) before going broke.
I think you make a valid point about other opportunities that seem better than horse racing but in black jack the house advantage is 1.5% not the rake if you lose house takes all your money last time I checked... In poker yes there is a rake but in other tables games and slots in only a house advantage and not a rake that is taken or percieved In horse racing like poker money comes out of the pot like a rake, I think what has to happen for horse racing is either the take out has to correspond to the care of horse and maintanence of facilities regardless of track size because it costs the same to take care of a horse whether its a derby prospect or a 5,000 claimer

[SMOO]

the problem devolves once more on issues peripheral to the racing (or, insert any other) industry proper: lack-wits born into good money with privileged positions (ala g. bush) without sound brains between their ears, blaming everyone other than themselves for their own incompetence.

:ThmbUp:

[SMOO]

I think what has to happen for horse racing is either the take out has to correspond to the care of horse and maintanence of facilities regardless of track size because it costs the same to take care of a horse whether its a derby prospect or a 5,000 claimer

So just get rid of the 5,000 claimer.

[saratoga guy]

Hong Kong and Macau are not the same. Hong kong does not allow casinos -- nearby Macau does. They have been there for awhile but have only taken off over the past five years or so.

The poster's point is valid. Big numbers in Hong Kong and Japan are due to a number of factors that are distinctly different than the racing industry faces in the US.

In Hong Kong that gambling monopoly surely factored into their success. And they are now feeling the crunch from those casinos in nearby Macau.

Another huge difference between Hong Hong/Japan and US racing is the number of racing dates. Those Asian countries have far fewer tracks and only race a few days a week.

It's really comparing apples and oranges.

That said, I'll reiterate what I've posted a number of times before: I don't think US racing does as good a job as ti could to market its product.

[Cangamble]

Hong Kong and Macau are not the same. Hong kong does not allow casinos -- nearby Macau does. They have been there for awhile but have only taken off over the past five years or so.

The poster's point is valid. Big numbers in Hong Kong and Japan are due to a number of factors that are distinctly different than the racing industry faces in the US.

In Hong Kong that gambling monopoly surely factored into their success. And they are now feeling the crunch from those casinos in nearby Macau.

Another huge difference between Hong Hong/Japan and US racing is the number of racing dates. Those Asian countries have far fewer tracks and only race a few days a week.

It's really comparing apples and oranges.

That said, I'll reiterate what I've posted a number of times before: I don't think US racing does as good a job as ti could to market its product.
Do you think that the 12% takeout in Hong Kong is irrelevant? If so, why don't they up it to 20%?

[rrbauer]

What's funny (or sad depending on your perspective) is that after two years in the business he's telling us what's wrong. Nothing's changed in those two years, so if he had been listening (or done some due diligence up front) what he knows today he could've known two years ago!

And, after all of this education he's received, his remedy is to use the Internet to get more people back to the track. :lol:

But, not a damn word about the sorry state of the product, the one thing that he and his peers do have some influence over (I guess sad was the right word!).

[Imriledup]

I think that the problem is this:

Any 'higher ups' in the racing industry don't have any real personal incentive to push for lower takeout and the reason is that lowering takeout, while great for the long run, is bad for the short run. How can a person suggest to HIS higher ups, "lets lose money in the short term".

These execs don't get paid to lose money. Lets face it, if you had an employee at your bakery and he suggested a way to help the customer at YOUR expense, what would you say? You'd say, "why do i have you on my payroll if you are going to come up with ideas that COST me money"

[Cangamble]

I think that the problem is this:

Any 'higher ups' in the racing industry don't have any real personal incentive to push for lower takeout and the reason is that lowering takeout, while great for the long run, is bad for the short run. How can a person suggest to HIS higher ups, "lets lose money in the short term".

These execs don't get paid to lose money. Lets face it, if you had an employee at your bakery and he suggested a way to help the customer at YOUR expense, what would you say? You'd say, "why do i have you on my payroll if you are going to come up with ideas that COST me money"
What does the government do to stimulate spending?

Rebates and interest rate cuts.

The government says, less money for the government in the short term, because they are looking at the long term effects.

[saratoga guy]

Do you think that the 12% takeout in Hong Kong is irrelevant?

Quite the contrary, I think it's certainly relevant. I'm all for lower takeout.

However, it's a lot easier to resist the temptation to raise takeout when things are going swimming -- which is probably more due to those other factors.

[highnote]

What does the government do to stimulate spending?

Rebates and interest rate cuts.



Good point.

[Shenanigans]

I think you make a valid point about other opportunities that seem better than horse racing but in black jack the house advantage is 1.5% not the rake if you lose house takes all your money last time I checked... In poker yes there is a rake but in other tables games and slots in only a house advantage and not a rake that is taken or percieved In horse racing like poker money comes out of the pot like a rake, I think what has to happen for horse racing is either the take out has to correspond to the care of horse and maintanence of facilities regardless of track size because it costs the same to take care of a horse whether its a derby prospect or a 5,000 claimer

Trust me, the cost is not the same for a derby prospect and a 5,000 claimer. Not saying there aren't any 5,000 claimers being cared like they are a derby prospect, but a derby prospect is much more likely going to get a lot better care than a 5,000 claimer - from the amount and kind of straw it's bedded on, the kind of hay and feed it's eating, to it's groom only rubbing 2-3 other horse rather than 8-10 others. Trainers are not going to spend the same kind of money on those two different types of horses.

[jonnielu]

No real edge for speed figure handicappers coupled with major form inconsistencies due to drugging has made potential newbies look elsewhere.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[NY BRED]

At the risk of simplifying the difference between horse racing and casinos:


Many of The "older" generation loved racing as a sport which offered a perk
to legally gamble on their selections and root their picks in a similar
fashion when they cheered their favorite teams at stadiums or arenas.


Casinos, aside from Vegas, did not exist near their immediate area, which
is quite different today, and horse racing and handicapping provided
enough thrills to satisfy the appetite of that generation.


Aside from being fan friendly, casino games are relatively simple to learn,
offer a glitzy,glamorous set, and offer a quick fix to the gambler or
anyone looking to have a "quick thrill".


I don't really believe the majority of the public has the inclination or desire
to learn the nuances of handicapping and take losses especially when they read about the various problems associated with racing.


Hopefully the introduction of Casino type "action" to tracks will allow the
management to conduct seminars, tours of the track and barn areas ,and
even free meals to gain fan interest as against watching these customers throwing coins into a VLT while a Grade I field is loading in the gate.

[jonnielu]

Is there anything that you DON'T blame on speed figures? Hey, the weather here the past couple of days has been lousy... should I blame Beyer?

And your characterization of NY racing is completely without any factual basis whatsoever. Favorites don't win any more often in NY than anywhere else, and top fig horses don't win more often in NY than anywhere else.

And what's this comment I see about "scraped down tracks"?? Aren't you the one who keeps mocking people for "whining" about differences in surfaces that you claim are figments of their imagination? How ironic that the one time you do see a surface difference, it actually IS a figment of your imagination!

Speed figures AND computer programs, if it isn't percieved as "fair", it doesn't work in NY. For me, 3 - 1 is a low-priced favorite.

The general nature of a surface does not change on an hourly basis.

jdl

[trying2win]

CANGAMBLE:

You're right on the money in a lot of your posts in this thread. Good show! :ThmbUp:

I keep reading about Bob Evans of CDI and his theories of 'how to run a racetrack properly' or 'what he figures is best for the horseplayer'...blah, blah, blah. I'm wondering if he ever thought of surveying bettors to find out what
they want instead of consulting so-called 'experts' amongst racetrack executives and horsemen? I'm trying to think of some 4, 5, or 6 letter words to describes this guy's theories without getting too negative :D.

I've been watching some old episodes of DRAGNET on the internet lately...maybe the sound of the theme song of this old tv show sounds appropriate for some of Bob Evans ideas to improve horse racing. DUMB...DEE...DUMB...DUMB.............DUMB...DEE... DUMB...DUMB...DUMB.

T2W

[jonnielu]

Is there anything that you DON'T blame on speed figures? Hey, the weather here the past couple of days has been lousy... should I blame Beyer?



Do you disagree that the opinions of this idiot have influenced many horse race fans?

Is my take wrong that most people seem to think that horse racing today is conducted strictly for the benefit of horsemen?

jdl

[ryesteve]

Do you disagree that the opinions of this idiot have influenced many horse race fans?
I don't agree he's an idiot.
I agree that he has had a major influence.
And it's idiotic to blame him for the demise of racing.

[pandy]

It is called getting a bang for your buck. You can last on a $10 blackjack table for hours with a $200 bankroll, and in the end, you might even have made a few bucks because the house rake is something like 1.5%.
If you go to the track with $200, you expect to go home broke, and you are lucky to last through the card (including simulcast wagering) before going broke.


I've heard this comparison before and I don't get it. When I go to the track with $200, I expect to win, and I win about 50% of the time. When I go to the casino, I expect to lose, and usually do. If you play Blackjack at $25 a hand or higher and expect to win with a $200 bankroll, you are a much better Blackjack player than most people I know. The reason why I still gamble in a Casino is for the comps and entertainment value. If I take my wife to Manhattan and stay in a 4 star hotel, after a show, dinner, parking, etc., I'm out at least $500 for one night. In Atlantic City we can stay in a 4 star hotel, dine in the best restaurants, see a show, drink top shelf booze, gamble for a few hours, all on about $200 a day. It's a bargain.

[Cangamble]

I've heard this comparison before and I don't get it. When I go to the track with $200, I expect to win, and I win about 50% of the time. When I go to the casino, I expect to lose, and usually do. If you play Blackjack at $25 a hand or higher and expect to win with a $200 bankroll, you are a much better Blackjack player than most people I know. The reason why I still gamble in a Casino is for the comps and entertainment value. If I take my wife to Manhattan and stay in a 4 star hotel, after a show, dinner, parking, etc., I'm out at least $500 for one night. In Atlantic City we can stay in a 4 star hotel, dine in the best restaurants, see a show, drink top shelf booze, gamble for a few hours, all on about $200 a day. It's a bargain.
I said a $10 blackjack table.
I can say that I win 50% of the time too when I go to the track. It wouldn't be true, but I could say it.;)

I had a friend who won at blackjack 12 times in a row, and he wasn't all that good a player. He said the exact opposite of what you are saying.

[pandy]

I said a $10 blackjack table.
I can say that I win 50% of the time too when I go to the track. It wouldn't be true, but I could say it.;)

I had a friend who won at blackjack 12 times in a row, and he wasn't all that good a player. He said the exact opposite of what you are saying.

It's hard to find a $10 table, but my point is, I don't care how low the house edge is, you have a much better chance of winning or breaking even when betting horses.

[Cangamble]

It's hard to find a $10 table, but my point is, I don't care how low the house edge is, you have a much better chance of winning or breaking even when betting horses.
I have to totally disagree with you all things being equal.

BTW, do you get rebates when you bet? If not, what is holding you back?

[jonnielu]

I don't agree he's an idiot.
I agree that he has had a major influence.
And it's idiotic to blame him for the demise of racing.

There is no demise of racing.

Is my take wrong that most people seem to think that horse racing today is conducted strictly for the benefit of horsemen??

jdl

[pandy]

I have to totally disagree with you all things being equal.

BTW, do you get rebates when you bet? If not, what is holding you back?


Yes, I get rebates, I bet every day and show a profit by the end of the year.

[Tom]

Is my take wrong that most people seem to think that horse racing today is conducted strictly for the benefit of horsemen??

The horsemen seem to think so.

[ryesteve]

we are now seeing the effect of a lost generation of racing fans. Perhaps 2 generations of racing fans have been dis-illusioned with speed figures and computer programs.
There is no demise of racing.

I'm glad we settled THAT...

[Dave Schwartz]

If I take my wife to Manhattan and stay in a 4 star hotel, after a show, dinner, parking, etc., I'm out at least $500 for one night.

Pandy,

Where the heck do you find a 4-star in Manhattan for that money?

The last three times I have been there it has been $500+ per night just for the room! ("W" Union Sq, Alex E45)


Dave

[jma]

At the risk of simplifying the difference between horse racing and casinos:


Many of The "older" generation loved racing as a sport which offered a perk
to legally gamble on their selections and root their picks in a similar
fashion when they cheered their favorite teams at stadiums or arenas.


Casinos, aside from Vegas, did not exist near their immediate area, which
is quite different today, and horse racing and handicapping provided
enough thrills to satisfy the appetite of that generation.


Aside from being fan friendly, casino games are relatively simple to learn,
offer a glitzy,glamorous set, and offer a quick fix to the gambler or
anyone looking to have a "quick thrill".


I don't really believe the majority of the public has the inclination or desire
to learn the nuances of handicapping and take losses especially when they read about the various problems associated with racing.


Hopefully the introduction of Casino type "action" to tracks will allow the
management to conduct seminars, tours of the track and barn areas ,and
even free meals to gain fan interest as against watching these customers throwing coins into a VLT while a Grade I field is loading in the gate.

I think the sad part is that your post is spot on. While we all love horse racing and wagering on it, the fact is that casino gambling is easier to pick up on for the general public, the takeout is lower, and they give you more free stuff. Also, there once were (legal) casinos in only two places, now they're everywhere. Even if horse racing had been managed perfectly, the sport was going to lose a lot of its market share. And as we all know, it's been managed far from perfectly...

[BombsAway Bob]

I think the sad part is that your post is spot on. While we all love horse racing and wagering on it, the fact is that casino gambling is easier to pick up on for the general public, the takeout is lower, and they give you more free stuff. Also, there once were (legal) casinos in only two places, now they're everywhere. Even if horse racing had been managed perfectly, the sport was going to lose a lot of its market share. And as we all know, it's been managed far from perfectly...
After decades of trying to get people into racing, I've found one fact remains the same; the vast majority of the public is TOO LAZY to bother trying to read PP's & develop basic handicapping skills. They would rather drop their double-sawbuck in a machine, hit "spin", & suck on the "free" no-name 12oz. cup of draft beer than spend 1o minutes a race looking for an edge. Sad, but true.

[pandy]

Pandy,

Where the heck do you find a 4-star in Manhattan for that money?

The last three times I have been there it has been $500+ per night just for the room! ("W" Union Sq, Alex E45)


Dave

Well, you're right. If you stay at the Pierre you can get a room the size of a closet for $250. The last time I parked in NY, during the winter, I paid $45!

[Spectacular Sid]

The man is overmatched and clueless about what can be done.


He has screwed up Churchill hosting the Breeders' Cup and is in the process of messing up account wagering.

He is a loser.

[ny0707ny]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/27/AR2008042702271.html

Congrats Bob, you identified the problem:
'Putting it as succinctly as possible, Evans, 55, who has been in charge at Churchill the past two years, summed up racing's problems like this: "Eventually, people get tired of losing money."'
*********************
But let me go further. Horse players get tired of losing and quit or bet less. Eventually everyone dies. Horse racing has not been able to attract enough bettors to replace the old ones. The internet has made people aware of other forms of betting where winning is a lot more likely. Such as poker and sports betting which have much much lower rakes.

So Bob identified the problem. What is his solution?
"I think we probably have a future with fewer races and maybe even fewer tracks. Clearly, we're on a path to fewer races."

How about the same amount of races and racetracks, and much lower takeouts?

Bob Evans is a defeatist. He has clearly given up on the concept of getting new bettors. Because he KNOWS that getting new bettors means drastically changing the way racetracks do business today and price their gambling product.


I don't agree with that. I don't bet and liked watching it just like other sports. I listed a post on here months ago about what is wrong with the sport. Nobody ever makes any changes or takes peoples concerns up for some reason. That is the reason why the sport is dying. When you don't listen to customers and you keep things the same for a 100 years.

[Cangamble]

I don't know what it is you don't agree with.
The reason I say Bob Evans is a defeatist is he knows that if he listens to what the real customers want (those who bet), he has to drastically change the way race tracks price their product.

Also, I find it strange that you don't bet but you have a blog that offers free picks.

[Kelso]

Where the heck do you find a 4-star in Manhattan for that money?



Well, he didn't say he takes her often. :lol:

[jasperson]

The problem is that racetrack management thinks it is just a sporting event and therefore can charge prices like a major league sport. They are not just a sporting event but a gambling event and there must compete with casinos for the gambling dollar. As long as they continue to look as them selfs as just a sporting event they are doomed to decline.:mad:

[Imriledup]

The problem is that racetrack management thinks it is just a sporting event and therefore can charge prices like a major league sport. They are not just a sporting event but a gambling event and there must compete with casinos for the gambling dollar. As long as they continue to look as them selfs as just a sporting event they are doomed to decline.:mad:

I dont mind that they charge 50 bucks (or whatever) for the big days, but on an everyday normal racing day, charging 7 dollars for general admission (10 for clubhouse) and a 3 or 5 dollar parking fee is money that adds up. The 10 dollar clubhouse admission that many So Cal racetracks charge for a terrible Wednesday card is way too much as the only people who are going there are doing so as gamblers and not 'sports fans'.

Its like paying full ticket prices for exhibition games in pro sports.

I do think there is a much bigger problem than admission and parking fees, eliminating them altogether isn't going to solve the problem of accurately pricing the betting (lowering takeout)..

Racetracks don't realize that a horse racing takeout at 15-25 pct (or more) is much more than the 5-10 pct takeout on sports bets. How many people do you know are professional sports bettors? Not too many i'd gather. If you can't win betting sports as a pro with a 5-10 pct takeout, how can you win betting horse racing as a NON pro with a 20 pct rake? You can't. Not only can't you win, you can't even be competitive.

[highnote]

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/apr/29/sad-saga-horse-racing-las-vegas/

"Las Vegas Park might have become one of the premier Kentucky Derby prep races. Maybe Big Brown or Z Fortune would have raced here in a Las Vegas Handicap or Silver State Stakes in recent months.

The story of thoroughbred racing in Las Vegas is riddled with embezzling and forgery, a special master and a bankruptcy referee, federal judges, poor attendance and a broken tote board."

"The president of the club said the venture lost money every day. It couldn’t lure enough visitors out of the casinos or locals out of their homes.

The park reopened in 1954 for a 48-meet schedule of quarter horse racing, but that lasted only seven weeks because of poor attendance."

And therein lies the problem -- they couldn't lure people out of the casinos.