Rev. Jeremiah Wright: The Comeback

[Gibbon]

Wright interviewed by Bill Moyers on PBS
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/profile.html
http://patterico.com/2008/04/24/excerpts-from-bill-moyers-interview-of-jeremiah-wright/

A} Served honorably with the US Marines and Navy.
B} Rev served as Cardiopulmonary technician at the National Naval Medical Center.
C} Wright was assigned as part of the medical team charged with care of LBJ after his 1966 surgery.
D} Before leaving the position in 1967, the White House awarded Rev. Wright three letters of commendation.

Not too shabby for a guy who hates America. Seems more of a patriot than current occupant of my white house who ran from his military duty – then and now.





____________________________________
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. ~ Winston Churchill

[Gibbon]

From the National Review. Yes that one started by William F. Buckley, Jr.
Continues to play a vital roll for real conservative ideals.

Media Assassination of the Rev. Wright (http://media.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTYwN2Q3MDg1YWQzNTcxMjJkN2NkZWY2NDg5ZDBmZGY=)

Rev hasn’t said anything that Jerry Falwell and other imbeciles have publicly spewed over 9/11.

[toetoe]

The White House left the position in 1967 ? Which position ? Housitosis ?

Adolf Hitler was a marvelous speaker, and a damn fine housepainter. Why, he could hang paper onehanded. He sounds like an abler individual than my boardmate Gibbon OR Irreverend Wrong.

[Gibbon]

And so the venom begins. Just what did Rev say that mega church cultist Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin or Joyce Meyer haven’t regurgitated?

One holds three letters of commendation from a president. Those others, self aggrandizement.






________________________________
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. ~ Daniel Patrick Moynihan

[bigmack]

As Wright moves forward on this junket (could he have found a more fraternal interviewer than Moyers?) and as he points the finger at others for singling out excerpts of his sermons, which were on DVD's for sale in his church, will he actually address the words he said and the intent behind them, or simply call those who aired the words, "haters"?

[46zilzal]

or this guy?
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/04/24/mccains-televangelist-ally-believes-god-damns-america/

[DRIVEWAY]

From the National Review. Yes that one started by William F. Buckley, Jr.
Continues to play a vital roll for real conservative ideals.

Media Assassination of the Rev. Wright (http://media.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTYwN2Q3MDg1YWQzNTcxMjJkN2NkZWY2NDg5ZDBmZGY=)

Rev hasn’t said anything that Jerry Falwell and other imbeciles have publicly spewed over 9/11.

Are you saying that Rev Wright is an imbecile?

[Tom]

:lol::lol::lol:

[Gibbon]

DRIVEWAY,

Myself, as a practicing Christian, yes I am. No contradiction here.
Let’s put partisanship aside for a moments as I ask you what did the Rev say that counsler to Ronald Reagan, Jerry Falwell hasn’t spewed from his hole during 9/11.

[bigmack]

Let’s put partisanship aside for a moments
How is it when anyone tries to marginalize what The Rev said it's always this obfuscation in talking about the partisanship of those who didn't like what he said or what other Rev's have said or the whole racist/hater thang?

How bout we just agree that he should either explain what he meant or shut his piehole. I know that's what Obama would like to see happen.

[toetoe]

Oh, maybe GOD DAMN AMERICA ? Although, the second word is bleeped whenever I hear it. I think that's what he said.

I'm with Bruce Williams on this one. Barry should have the worldliness and judgement to foresee this and deal with it MONTHS ago.

Now, I'm a bank robber, but the guy next door is a swindler. If you accuse me, you're just not being fair. I'm squeaky clean, baby.

I would not call my response venom, maybe just gasoline upon your already impressive conflagration.

[chickenhead]

did the reverend ever get caught playing show me yours I'll show you mine with little boys at summer camp?

He's got to rank near the middle when it comes to pulpit dwellers on that alone :confused:

[delayjf]

I'm willing to give the guy some slack given his service to his country (my choice) and the historic perspective of his life (growing up in segregation). I can understand why he might still be bitter. But at this point in history, most white people (50 years and younger) are apathetic towards the "modern civil rights movement".

[toetoe]

delay,

The only defense is insanity !

Okay, how about Michael Savage ? Hilarious, well educated, a perfect face for radio, he's got it all. He attacks ad hominem, NOT ad propria patriam. And he doesn't make excuses based on his upbringing.

And what's with the Bill Moyers mention ? Are we supposed to believe he's the white male Oprah ? Anybody on his show must be okay ? :confused:

[Gibbon]

maybe GOD DAMN AMERICA? This quote is deserving of a formal response.



To expand on post #4; America deserves terrorist attacks and other horrendous disasters.... has long been a frequently expressed view among the faction of white evangelical ministers to whom the Republican Party is most inextricably linked. Neither Jerry Falwell {now deceased} nor Pat Robertson ever retracted or denounced their view that America provoked the 9/11 attacks by doing things to anger God. John Hagee continues to believe that the City of New Orleans got what it deserved when Katrina drowned its residents and devastated the lives of thousands of Americans. James Inhofe -- who happens to still be a U.S. Senator -- blamed America for the 9/11 attacks by arguing in a 2002 Senate floor speech that "the spiritual door was opened for an attack against the United States of America" because we pressured Israel to give away parts of the West Bank.

The phrases "anti-American" and "America-haters" are among the most manipulative in our entire political lexicon, but whatever they happen to mean on any given day, they easily encompass people who believe that the U.S. deserved the 9/11 attacks, devastating hurricanes and the like. Yet when are people like Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, Inhofe and other white Christian radicals ever described as anti-American or America-hating extremists? White Christian evangelicals who tie themselves to the political Right are intrinsically patriotic.

Without naming names, do you believe those aforementioned individuals in post #4 are anti-American radicals and that people who allow their children to belong to their churches are exercising grave errors of judgment?

[Tom]

Without naming names, do you believe those aforementioned individuals in post #4 are anti-American radicals and that people who allow their children to belong to their churches are exercising grave errors of judgment?

Not the point. The point is BARRY HUSSEIN sat there for 20 years. And lied about not knowing he was saying that crap. Most people who attend the Post 4 churches are not running for president. We now know Barry is the world dumest moron or a liar. Take your pick

[Gibbon]

He attacks... I initiated this tread to show Rev’s services record on behalf of his country nothing more. It is I who am being attacked.

[Gibbon]

Tom,

Point taken and agreed. I merely pointing out others are in a similar position.
Fake, phony, fraud Christians. I’m withdrawing for the day. I don’t need another Anne Nicole.

[toetoe]

First of all, they don't single out America for damnation.

Now, are you saying Falwell and his coven got no negative press ? Well then, stand on your own four hooves and shout it. Don't try to deny that the fawning spirit of the testicular massage thread that you have spun is
"Poor Rev Gets His Due," Falwellians notwithstanding.

[bigmack]

people who believe that the U.S. deserved the 9/11 attacks
Is that really what Falwell said about 9/11, or is this (as misguided as it may be):

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen"

[toetoe]

I saw the "service record" part. I just don't believe the "nothing more" part.
Flame on, Johnny.

[Hank]

Interesting thread in that it reveals one of the primary causes of the disconnect between the races in this country.Altough I don't Know Rev Wright I would be willing to make a LARGE wager that he is no racist or america hater as these out of contex clips portend.It's all about perspective, many older blacks have bitter experiences with racism ect that must be taken into account[if one is open minded]for example, my dad was a member of the 761st tankers in WW2, upon returning home he was barred from entering the px or nco club I forget, but get this ,German pows were allowed. Let that sink in for a second.[could you begrudge the man a Rev Wright like rant here?]Our Country is great, but not without it's flaws and some of it's major flaws related directly to mistreatment of blacks citizens.That this could result in a much different perspective on certain things,should not be that difficult for clear thinking people to grasp,but for some reason it is.Thus the disconnect.

[bigmack]

I would be willing to make a LARGE wager that he is no racist or america hater as these out of contex clips portend.It's all about perspective, many older blacks have bitter experiences with racism ect that must be taken into account
I get it. So if I strive to connect beyond my "disconnect" and fully comprehend the bitter experiences of a gentleman, I'll be able to better understand:

September 2001: “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.” – September 2001: “We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.”

– September 2001: “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because of stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own backyard. America is chickens coming home to roost.”

April 2003: “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes three-strike laws and wants them to sing God Bless America. No! No No! God damn America … for killing innocent people. God damn America for threatening citizens as less than humans. God damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and supreme.” – December 2007: “Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people. Hillary would never know that.”

Jan. 13, 2008: “Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.”

– “Fact number one: We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college. … Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run.”

– “We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional killers. … We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. … We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. … We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means.

Somehow, I doubt it.

[GaryG]

Tom,

Point taken and agreed. I merely pointing out others are in a similar position.
Fake, phony, fraud Christians. I’m withdrawing for the day. I don’t need another Anne Nicole.Oh yes....that was when you were known as Bala before you entered the PA witness protection program....

[toetoe]

First off, I do not give McCain a pass for calling his captors gooks. Nor do I give him carte blanche because he was a prisoner. Gee, if he got himself killed, he'd REALLY be heroic, and then where would we be ?

Holding black folk or ANY folk to a lower standard is admitting to the opinion that they are noble savages or some sort of retardates (:Insert handwringing man here, please). Why would I do that except to put/keep them down and/or assuage my own guilt/shame (running out of slashes here, people)? And do not underestimate the role of black preachers and other "holy" men in the downkeeping.

[Bala]

Oh yes....that was when you were known as Bala before you entered the PA witness protection program.... Never needed nor required any such protection.

September 2001: “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide... Over the top, yes. Based on “The Tuskegge (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html) Experiment.”

September 2001: “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians... Google the crimes of Ariel Sharon and Menachem Begin.

and black South Africans. America supported Apartheid for many years.

April 2003: “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons... Must be pleasant to live in white suburbia far away from narco terrorists' products willfully allowed to cross American borders and ports.

Fact number one: We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college... Truth sucks! Let us change the facts.

exporting of guns America is in bloody fact the single largest exporter of guns and related munitions to the world. Nearly twice the size in dollar terms as Russia and China combined. here (http://www.gunslot.com/articles/america-worlds-arms-pusher-top-export-deadliest) and here (http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/reports/AAAS.htm).

[bigmack]

Must be pleasant to live in white suburbia far away from narco terrorists' products willfully allowed to cross American borders and ports.

Who's living in white suburbia that you're directing your confusion towards?

So, the government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes three-strike laws and wants them to sing God Bless America, means that because the drugs cross the border they're being given to certain portions of the population?

Based on “The Tuskegge (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html) Experiment
Perfect Bala/Gibbon, far reaching reference intended to diadactically school the "unkowing". Too bad more don't fall in the "unkowing" category here to fall for such idiocy.

[Bala]

Personally, I never claimed any such direct accusation of my govt. But you must be blind NOT to 'see' how conspiracy theories are born. All this could be dealt with immediately. Your fellow American citizens are begging law enforcement to uphold constitutional boundaries by stationing trained personal at our borders and ports to seize the very products we are fighting against in Afghanistan. The same products funding terrorists activities worldwide.

As someone born and breed in the USA, pay taxes in the USA ... I suppose I'm asking too much. Let us turn our heads and feed yet another generation on the alter of expendable, irrelevant and undeserving peoples. Turn our focus, pretend it don't matter, after all it's not my 'hood.






__________________________________
We are all full of weakness and errors; let us mutually pardon each other our follies it is the first law of nature. ~ Voltaire

[ezrabrooks]

I initiated this tread to show Rev’s services record on behalf of his country nothing more. It is I who am being attacked.


the venon begin? With the first shot being...."Not too shabby for a guy who hates America. Seems more of a patriot than current occupant of my white house who ran from his military duty – then and now".

What ever you say...

Ez

[bigmack]

Personally, I never claimed any such direct accusation of my govt. But you must be blind NOT to 'see' how conspiracy theories are born. All this could be dealt with immediately. Your fellow American citizens are begging law enforcement to uphold constitutional boundaries by stationing trained personal at our borders and ports to seize the very products we are fighting against in Afghanistan. The same products funding terrorists activities worldwide.

As someone born and breed in the USA, pay taxes in the USA ... I suppose I'm asking too much. Let us turn our heads and feed yet another generation on the alter of expendable, irrelevant and undeserving peoples. Turn our focus, pretend it don't matter, after all it's not my 'hood.
Wow, all that from "The government gives them the drugs". If I follow the logic of you and RevWright I'm in a paint by numbers world that never ends.

[Indulto]

... Holding black folk or ANY folk to a lower standard is admitting to the opinion that they are noble savages or some sort of retardates (:Insert handwringing man here, please). Why would I do that except to put/keep them down and/or assuage my own guilt/shame (running out of slashes here, people)? And do not underestimate the role of black preachers and other "holy" men in the downkeeping.Wow, tt. What was it about this thread that primed your pump?

Everything is relative. Without endorsing or condemning his Wrightness, allow me to suggest several far more worthy targets for pastoral pummeling: Baker, Falwell, Farrakan, Jackson, Kahane, Law, Robertson, Sharpton, Swaggert, ... Race and religion is no barrier. :D

[bigmack]

Wow, tt. What was it about this thread that primed your pump?
Everything is relative.
Dear Duelto - God help me if I start speaking in toes, or is it tongues?

What I think our demented comrade was referring to is.....

Imagine, if you will, a "clean slate" of an individual. One with little preconceived ideations about encumbrance's or "follow the dotted-line" conspiracies to thwart their goals in life. Goals/objectives may be achieved or have fallen short. The fallen short world welcomes with open arms stories of yesteryear, of oppression, subjugation and the like.

Those who realized goals may have been spared the theatrics of a Sunday sermon meant to give those "fallen short" a reason they have, for lack of a better term, "fallen short".

It becomes symbiotic. I'll tell you what you want to hear because you're unable to "reach for the stars" as a result of this & that and the other. Thus, downkeeping. No?

[Bala]

Pop psychology originating from privileged classes while ignoring real urban problems. Social scientists have written lengthy tomes dispelling such crude misconceptions. If one were serious, one could start by studying B.F. Skinner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.F._Skinner).


Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless. ~ B. F. Skinner

[bigmack]

Pop psychology originating from privileged classes while ignoring real urban problems.
School us, Bala. Tell us all how inner city plight would be solved with your wide ranging, scratch the surface, "there's a reason for every failing, & it's not your fault" world.

BF Skinner would have a field day with your position.

[Hank]

I get it. So if I strive to connect beyond my "disconnect" and fully comprehend the bitter experiences of a gentleman, I'll be able to better understand:

September 2001: “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.” – September 2001: “We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.”

– September 2001: “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because of stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own backyard. America is chickens coming home to roost.”

April 2003: “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes three-strike laws and wants them to sing God Bless America. No! No No! God damn America … for killing innocent people. God damn America for threatening citizens as less than humans. God damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and supreme.” – December 2007: “Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people. Hillary would never know that.”

Jan. 13, 2008: “Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.”

– “Fact number one: We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college. … Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run.”

– “We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional killers. … We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. … We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. … We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means.

Somehow, I doubt it.

Of course you do.that was my point.

[Bala]

I'll try to school you smallmack but I fear your narrow intellectual capabilities may hinder understanding.

Upper socio-economics classes have asserted the poor are the cause of their own poverty or blame the poor for their own condition.
Social Darwinism asserts the poor are poor because they are less fit to survive in society.

My beliefs are that America perpetuates a culture of poverty. Our seductive materialist society frowns on savings while venerates consumption. Individuals like myself can break this cycle, entire neighborhoods cannot. Government must not shirk its responsibility to defend the poor from injustice. If government will not do this, as it has turned a blind eye and deaf ear to stopping narco-terrorist products, govt by inaction, has de facto legalizing drugs. Drugs -- the principle instigator of crime and violence throughout inner city ghettos across America.

Many people slip into poverty through no fault of their own. In these cases, government must help to distribute funds. Unfortunately, the track record of government programs is NOT very impressive. Govt spends monies on its own self perpetuating bureaucracy. Before the implementation of many of the Great Society programs, the percentage of people living below the poverty level was 13.6 percent. Twenty years later, the percentage was still 13.6 percent.

We need a welfare system that emphasizes work and initiative and does not foster dependency and laziness. If people have true needs, we should help them. But when they are lazy and have poor work habits, we should admonish them to improve. Our current welfare system perpetuates poverty by failing to distinguish between those who have legitimate needs and those who need to be admonished in their sloth. Indecently, inflation adjusted welfare payments have declined significantly while corporate welfare has increased significantly under Bush.

I believe poverty relief should be a cooperative effort between the government and the church. As I noted above, government can provide solutions to exploitation and oppression by enforcing existing {drug} laws. It can also provide solutions to economic misfortune through various spending programs. But it cannot solve the problems of poverty by addressing injustice and misfortune alone. Poverty is as much a psychological and spiritual problem as it is an economic problem, and it is in this realm that the church can be most effective. Although salvation is not the sole answer, the church is better equipped than the government to meet the psychological and spiritual needs of poverty-stricken people. Most secular social programs do not place much emphasis on these needs and thus miss an important element in the solution to poverty.

As I stated earlier, one of the causes of poverty is the culture of poverty. People are poor because they are poor. An individual who grows up in a culture of poverty is destined for a life of poverty unless something rather dramatic takes place. Poor nutrition, poor education, poor work habits, and poor family relationships can easily condemn an individual to perpetual poverty.

[bigmack]

Of course you do.that was my point.
My bad for not knowing the degree of the mutton to your muttonheadness.
Dave I must say I think your logic is flawed in that those who would perceive him as you suggest would not be voting dem under any circumstances anyway.Although I do agree he is not electable due primarily to latent racism.

one of the causes of poverty is the culture of poverty. People are poor because they are poor. An individual who grows up in a culture of poverty is destined for a life of poverty unless something rather dramatic takes place.
Good idea to return to your previous moniker. Let us know when you might pull the plug as a result of a thead to your disliking. That's rational thought

Wanna have a contest on who grew up on the poorer side of the street, Dr. Flatfoot? You assume much and posture with a false piousness that is about as becoming as your chief rival. Anna says hello anabiotically.

Run for office. Save us from urban plight.

[Bala]

And your smug solution to....
Silly me, only small talk. Lone wolf, pull yourself out of a ditch dug by others.

grew up on the poorer side of the street You'd be a frightened kitty cat outside your cloistered, perfectly manicured garden.

[bigmack]

And your smug solution to....
Silly me, only small talk. Lone wolf, pull yourself out of a ditch dug by others.

You'd be a frightened kitty cat outside your cloistered, perfectly manicured garden.
Remind us again of your supposed spirituality & faith. Sounds more like you're filled with such resentment you might blow at any moment - Cue Anna.

Would you accept that some people that now live with a manicured garden once lived in the throws of desperate poverty? Nah, that doesn't fit your model. What do you make of those type of folk - They "pulled themselves out of a ditch dug by others" :lol::lol:

You know nothing.

[hcap]

You assume much and posture with a false piousness that is about as becoming as your chief rival. Anna says hello anabiotically.

Run for office. Save us from urban plight.Anabiotically???

Huh?
Say what Anna?

[Tom]

Urban plight?
Aren't most urban mayors democrats?
Wassupwidat?

[GaryG]

Urban plight?
Aren't most urban mayors democrats?
Wassupwidat?Shall we turn our attention to Dee-troit? Those are the worst urban slums that I have ever seen. What are they doing about it? I think their mayor is a democrat....swami or something like that right?

[Gibbon]

There are also Dem Mayors in upscale zip codes…
Santa Ana, Orlando, Honolulu, Portland,
Richmond, Virginia Beach, many others.

Perhaps there’s more to it than politics.

[toetoe]

I admit I restricted the preacher slam (hey, that could be a versifyin' contest --- the Preacher Slam :jump: ) to black preachers, but it seems that's germane, considering "Rev." Whatswhaiteaintright's demographic and rhetoric.

But what if carrying on like Screamin A. Smif is per se a way of peacekeeping, by inciting people to vent their frustrations, but nothing more ? Maybe it's about the same thing white preachers are in it for ... Mo-NET. But where does that leave the poor schmucks that have the audacity of hope ? Oh well, there's always the next life.

Remember to write in Reverend Ike for president now, y'hear ?

[Hank]

My bad for not knowing the degree of the mutton to your muttonheadness.



Good idea to return to your previous moniker. Let us know when you might pull the plug as a result of a thead to your disliking. That's rational thought

Wanna have a contest on who grew up on the poorer side of the street, Dr. Flatfoot? You assume much and posture with a false piousness that is about as becoming as your chief rival. Anna says hello anabiotically.

Run for office. Save us from urban plight.

Mack your careening wildly out of control here.You make a post which pretty much comfirms what I was saying,I point this out and this makes me a mutton head?:DThen you pull up an unrelated post by me that in your mind is somehow relevant to this thread but that is actualy completely irrelevant.
You need to lay down with a cold towel on your head you'll be fine.

[Tom]

There are also Dem Mayors in upscale zip codes…
Santa Ana, Orlando, Honolulu, Portland,
Richmond, Virginia Beach, many others.

Perhaps there’s more to it than politics.

Perhaps not. Perhaps it is the people thmeselves.

Like New Orleans. Perhpas no what you do for some people, they will only need more.

Perhaps some people are natural failures. Perhaps some people are all they can be.

[Hank]

Perhaps not. Perhaps it is the people thmeselves.

Like New Orleans. Perhpas no what you do for some people, they will only need more.

Perhaps some people are natural failures. Perhaps some people are all they can be.

Perhaps,you should think before making post about things you obviously know nothing about.Perhaps if you did this you could avoid looking like an idiot.perhaps not.

[GaryG]

Perhaps,you should think before making post about things you obviously know nothing about.Perhaps if you did this you could avoid looking like an idiot.perhaps not.A little bit nasty today are we? Maybe a cold towel on the forehead....maybe not...:lol:

[Tom]

Perhaps,you should think before making post about things you obviously know nothing about.Perhaps if you did this you could avoid looking like an idiot.perhaps not.

You have evidence to the contrary?
Post away, oh enlightened one.
Edumacate us!

[Indulto]

Perhaps not. Perhaps it is the people thmeselves.

Like New Orleans. Perhpas no what you do for some people, they will only need more.

Perhaps some people are natural failures. Perhaps some people are all they can be.Is this your impression of Goebbels or girbles?

[toetoe]

The privileged dictating to the poor ? Sounds like the definition of "liberals" to me.

Indulto,

I believe more deserving oxen can be gored, as I believe more deserving heroes are out there. But horibile dictu, the gent started the thread with a flaming paean to Reverend Whydonchadew Wright, so why would I weigh in on some other "leader?"

[toetoe]

My gerbil's all in ( ;) ). He needs to be spelled.

[Indulto]

The privileged dictating to the poor ? Sounds like the definition of "liberals" to me.

Indulto,

I believe more deserving oxen can be gored, as I believe more deserving heroes are out there. But horibile dictu, the gent started the thread with a flaming paean to Reverend Whydonchadew Wright, so why would I weigh in on some other "leader?"Toe,
I am a firm believer that no one deserves help who is unwilling to help himself, but I find infrequent accuracy in the description "self-made."

In my experience, too many who assume that mantle fail to credit fortuitous factors without which "success" and/or material acquisition would have eluded them as well. Those who "made their own luck" at uncalled for expense to others fall into an entirely different category.

In the course of my life, I've seen society go from relative harmony where those who had either too little or too much were seldom visible; to one where ostentation is far more prevalent than contentment.

Perhaps it is only So Cal and not elsewhere, but TV and personal sources in other locations suggest it is not.

On this board, anyone who asks either "How much is enough?" or, worse, "How much is too much?" is labeled a communist.

It is reasonable to deny the unworthy, but not those in genuine need. Too few are willing to make that distinction until life hands them a pink slip.

[toetoe]

I'm glad this thread, so flamboyant in its nascence, has evolved to the point of your latest post, with which I agree. :ThmbUp: Do we also agree the original post was off base, the threadspinner's subsequent backing-off notwithstanding ?

[toetoe]

bala,

Would that my intellectual capabilities were so "narrow" ... :lol: ... as bigmack's. That may be the line of the year. :jump:

I guess my white skin ( :blush: ) saved my indigent self from indignities even more discouraging than the total jobsite degradation I experienced at the hands of redneck supervisors, lesbian guerrilla managers, and groupthink power trippers.

Impecuniously,
2T2U

[Gibbon]

...total jobsite degradation I experienced at the hands of redneck supervisors, lesbian guerrilla managers, and groupthink power trippers. There are two kinds of human animal on this earth.
Sheep and wolves. Prey or predator.

Not my fault you can't cope.

[Gibbon]

Tom,

You of all people must know – you will never get an argument from me.
However, you conveniently choose to ignore post #36 second paragraph on
narco-terrorist drug trade. Why?

[Gibbon]

With the first shot being.... I was merely stating inconvenient facts. It is a matter of record, Bush used family influence to stay far, far away from Vietnam.

It is a matter of record, Bush refuses to use advanced American technology to end this police action in Iraq thereby inflicting more harm on our troops and families. If Shock and Awe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_awe) had been extended another month, we would talk of Iraq using past-tense phrases.

Say what you will, Bush is an incompetent Commander 'n Chief. Contrast John McCain, a real hero.

[bigmack]

Let's not forget, Tom -

My beliefs are that America perpetuates a culture of poverty. Our seductive materialist society frowns on savings while venerates consumption. Individuals like myself can break this cycle, entire neighborhoods cannot.
By shear temptation, "America", and its dreaded commercialistic ways, warps and/or jades the realities of those that can't fight temptation. Thus, "The Govament" is to blame for not printing brochures to educate people to save their, however earned dollars, and stop this vicious cycle of consumerism. Fight the power!

Government must not shirk its responsibility to defend the poor from injustice. If government will not do this, as it has turned a blind eye and deaf ear to stopping narco-terrorist products, govt by inaction, has de facto legalizing drugs. Drugs -- the principle instigator of crime and violence throughout inner city ghettos across America.
Again, it's not the fact that folk suck on the pipe or drop a pill, it's that they've lost their volition because of its avail. You know, like people getting "Jumbo-sized" from eating Wendy's square burgers. It's not the nitwits eating the crap, it's that corporate Wendy's (or is it Arbys) that insists on being present every 15 blocks or so. GDamn them and GDamn the Govamant for letting it happen.

Bala/Gibbon is on to something here. Or is it, "on" something?

[Tom]

Tom,

You of all people must know – you will never get an argument from me.
However, you conveniently choose to ignore post #36 second paragraph on
narco-terrorist drug trade. Why?

Do you dispute my "perhaps?" You can show proof that many poor people are that way by thier own fault? I say it is a plausible idea. Not 100%, but widespread.

I say the liberals perpetuate poverty. I say the dems are the reason we have so much urban plight.

I didn't ignore it, I seldom read long posts. A Quick skim and I'm outta there.
Most points do not support the length of text they receive. Many of mine included!:rolleyes:

OK, I read the paragraph and do not agree. Who is selling the drugs in those neighborhoods? Who is running the crack houses? There was poverty there long before the drugs came in. That is a reach.

[toetoe]

In your defense, Gibbon, I submit to all that I'm SURE you are kidding when you advise to "get over it," as the premise of this thread is that no one HAS to get over it. You know ... just come up with an excuse, and be a loser. I don't need a reminder to cope. I think I'll deal with life, and I'll be reasonably fine.

[Gibbon]

I guess my white skin... This tread has lost its way long ago. The initial post of this tread was about Rev. Jeremiah Wright honorable service record on behalf of my country.

Smallmack and dirty Toe have made feeble attempts to mask their obvious effeminate natures by disparaging the US Marines and the US Navy where Rev. Wright served with distinction.

Later, a US president while still in office awarded Rev. Wright three letters of commendation. What is clear, SmallMack and dirty toe have NO respect for either of the institution mentions.

You sirs, have no shame! Hiding behind phony patriotism vomiting vitriolic words stationed behind a keyboard. Two pusillanimous gnats sitting at a computer while Rev. Wright earned his right to free speech. Yes Rev. is a jackass, but he speaks for voices not heard ordinarily.

SmallMack and dirty toe use copious amounts of sophistry and specious reasoning to appear learned when in fact, two dummies with narrow life experiences whose only claim to fame is they share my love of racing. So sit by your computer screens, play away and curse men such as Rev. Wright gifting you the luxury of idleness.

[Tom]

Of course the Rev has a right to free speech, just as we have the right to reply to it, and to use it as a way to judge Barry Hussein's fitness to serve.
I say, freely

GD REV WRIGHT!
GD BARRY HUSSEIN!
GD BARRY's WIFE!

Gosh, I love free speech!

[Gibbon]

Do you dispute my "perhaps?" Tom I am all for personal responsibility. I live it, teach all four of my teenage Gibbons. A vitally important life lesson. But stop just for a moment.

You are born as a crack addicted baby to worthless parents. And grandparents too old to care for another generation. What would your life look like? But who cares? Let them die by their own misery.

As a civilized society we help most everyone except non voting innocence. Separate the rif-raf from bums. Provide help to those with real needs. We can begin by eliminating welfare subsidies to corporate America. Read Exxon Mobil and Enron – Bush and Cheney's favorite largess.

[toetoe]

Sorry, now those last two are the posts of the year. Narrow life experiences ?

[toetoe]

mack's life experience, his powers of mentation, his addictive love for language, his sense of humor --- these things are all broader than Serena Williams' ass, companheiro. Narrow as compared to the Mississippi River in flood season, maybe ? Not even.

Speaking of venom, do you have a pair of those newfangled inexhaustible fangs, or have you run dry ? (:Scratching head.)

[toetoe]

Dear Gibbon (by Gorilla, out of Chimpanzee, by Orangutan {Arg.}),

Why dintcha SAY so ? Okay, here's the couldabin thread:

"Reverend Wright is a jackass."

Okay, now here's my response:

":ThmbUp: ."

[bigmack]

mack's life experience, his powers of mentation, his addictive love for language, his sense of humor --- these things are all broader than Serena Williams' ass, companheiro. Narrow as compared to the Mississippi River in flood season, maybe ? Not even.
Toes, you're a mensch.

This issue is a bonafide imbroglio. I trust Bala/Gibbon means well and wish him well towards its resolution. I remain a cynic to the core.

[toetoe]

That was my favorite show. Mission Imbroglio, produced by Bruce Geller. :ThmbUp:

[Gibbon]

Okay, now here's my response: :ThmbUp: I can't take it anymore. The suspense is unrestrained enthusiasm.
I'll hold by breath in anticipation of your pedantic response to white jackass preachers.

[Tom]

As a civilized society we help most everyone except non voting innocence. Separate the rif-raf from bums. Provide help to those with real needs. We can begin by eliminating welfare subsidies to corporate America. Read Exxon Mobil and Enron – Bush and Cheney's favorite largess.

Johnny-come-lately's to the world of hand outs, which have been draining our coffers sinc ethe 1960's with no signs of any ending or progress. Ahhhh, the key word is help. I have no problem offering a helping hand, but the majority have assumed they and their childrena dn grandchildren are owed my continued carrying of their dead arses.

[Gibbon]

Yes, I have seen the light. I've been such a misguided romantic fool. Black America makes a choice to remain poor. It's not a societal problem, it's a disease inflicting Black American souls.

23 year old and unarmed Sean Bell (http://www.newsweek.com/id/134212) {black male} was found guilty of choosing to receive 50 bullets from New York City {my home town} Police 9 millimeter pistols. Young Mr. Bell on his wedding day must have been distraught, walked out of the wedding hall, flagged 4 cops and insisted they shoot him – 50times.

Rev. Wright shoots words and he is the demon.

Y'all trained this American well. Didn't nobody tell me before. I got it. A Black problem, it ain't society at large. I must thank y'all for fixin' me up.

[Gibbon]

Again, it's not the fact that folk suck on the pipe or drop a pill....

Wachovia Corp. is being investigated by Federal prosecutors as part of a probe into alleged drug money laundering by Mexican and Colombian ... which is also scrutinizing several other large U.S. bank --> Source (http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/26/news/companies/wachovia_mexico/index.htm?section=money_mostpopular) Black America and their conspiracy theories...

[Hank]

A little bit nasty today are we? Maybe a cold towel on the forehead....maybe not...:lol:

Nasty?Naw, just thought Tom would enjoy coming up with a snappy 'perhaps' comeback.

[Tom]

Perhaps Hank will someday post something worth reading.







What am I smoking????????
PERHAPS I should stop!:lol:

[Hank]

You have evidence to the contrary?
Post away, oh enlightened one.
Edumacate us!

Evidence to refute your silly post,I could provide plenty, but why should I waste my time trying to 'Edumacate' a knucklehead like you. Your natrual failure theory is obviously based on a thorough and highly accurate self analysis.:rolleyes:

[bigmack]

Black America and their conspiracy theories...
Wachovia Corp. is being investigated by Federal prosecutors as part of a probe into alleged drug money laundering by Mexican and Colombian ... which is also scrutinizing several other large U.S. bank --> Source (http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/26/news/companies/wachovia_mexico/index.htm?section=money_mostpopular)

Uh huh, uh huh...Oh, I get it!

The financial institutions took the loot cause they make dough from the loot?
(No, that must not be what he meant)

OK, I think I got it...

They took the cabbage as part of a multitiered scheme to allow drugs on the street to further a continuance of a world they collectively profit from.

Getting close? If so, could you "tighten up" the connections to who all is making the wrong choices?

[bigmack]

It pains me to rub elbows with myself in posting, however...

A crony insisted on a read through of the thread and wonders if Bala/G could supply any data of reliability on the foreign need for key ingredients within illicit drugs?

That's their post - scratch the elbow rub

[Indulto]

It pains me to rub elbows with myself in posting, however...

A crony insisted on a read through of the thread and wonders if Bala/G could supply any data of reliability on the foreign need for key ingredients within illicit drugs?

That's their post - scratch the elbow rubJust curious as to what some posters are basing the Bala-Gibbon "duality" on. Has PA confirmed that both use the same IP address?

Any similariy of expression does not leap out at me.

[Tom]

Evidence to refute your silly post,I could provide plenty, but why should I waste my time trying to 'Edumacate' a knucklehead like you. Your natrual failure theory is obviously based on a thorough and highly accurate self analysis.:rolleyes:

Thought so....still empty, huh Hank? :lol:

[Tom]

Just curious as to what some posters are basing the Bala-Gibbon "duality" on. Has PA confirmed that both use the same IP address?

Any similariy of expression does not leap out at me.

I read it on the internet, so it must be true!

[toetoe]

Here's the difference with white preachers, Gibbon. They are white ( :( ), and as intrinsically awful as that is to liberals, by virtue of their whiteness, white preachers never benefit from preemptive strike-type flameposts on their behalf. If those posts were started, they would create a firestorm.

Also, I'm sure no white preacher EVER served in the military. :rolleyes:

[toetoe]

Hundreds, even THOUSANDS of black babies were born today. What were their mothers thinking ? They refused to abort out of sheer selfishness. How COULD they bring babies into this bigoted, lily white world ? :(

[Indulto]

Hundreds, even THOUSANDS of black babies were born today. What were their mothers thinking ? They refused to abort out of sheer selfishness. How COULD they bring babies into this bigoted, lily white world ? :(Dear TomToe,
As one you have made laugh so hard that tears ran down my legs, it leaves me with great sadness, Chemo Savvy, to see you morph into your comic rival.

In your present state, you are lowtoe to me.

[chickenhead]

I take full credit for that one. It was subtle, but my spidey senses are sometimes uncanny.

Just curious as to what some posters are basing the Bala-Gibbon "duality" on. Has PA confirmed that both use the same IP address?

Any similariy of expression does not leap out at me.

[PaceAdvantage]

And so the venom begins. Just what did Rev say that mega church cultist Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Hagin or Joyce Meyer haven’t regurgitated?

One holds three letters of commendation from a president. Those others, self aggrandizement.Jerry Falwell took HUGE flak for his comments and later issued a public apology....based on your comparisons, I would expect you to demand that Rev. Wright do the same.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/

[toetoe]

Dear mates,

Can anyone translate Indulto's last post for me ? I think it voices his disagreement with me, he wants me to read it, and I WANT to know. However, I am not the cunning linguist I always supposed I was. I am CLUELESS, at least in this instance. ;)

[Lefty]

Try as the libs'e try to spin it, Rev Wright's words speak volumes for themselves. His military record does not excuse him. Wasn't Timothy M'Cvey also in the military.
America is so racist that Rev Wright is soon to move into a multi-million dollar mansion right dab smack in the middle of those rich white folks he condemns.

[Hank]

Interesting thread in that it reveals one of the primary causes of the disconnect between the races in this country.Altough I don't Know Rev Wright I would be willing to make a LARGE wager that he is no racist or america hater as these out of contex clips portend.It's all about perspective, many older blacks have bitter experiences with racism ect that must be taken into account[if one is open minded]for example, my dad was a member of the 761st tankers in WW2, upon returning home he was barred from entering the px or nco club I forget, but get this ,German pows were allowed. Let that sink in for a second.[could you begrudge the man a Rev Wright like rant here?]Our Country is great, but not without it's flaws and some of it's major flaws related directly to mistreatment of blacks citizens.That this could result in a much different perspective on certain things,should not be that difficult for clear thinking people to grasp,but for some reason it is.Thus the disconnect.

This line of thinking led me to do some research on the question of "perspective".Acording to many psychologist it is psychologically impossiable to set aside the influences of our own minds on the way we perceive things.And to see things from the perspective of others,This is especially so because we are unaware of them most of the time.Consequently,everything we think we know intellectually is filtered through what we already believe.So I guess its a lost cause which the tenor of this thread basicly confirms.

[Greyfox]

This line of thinking led me to do some research on the question of "perspective".Acording to many psychologist it is psychologically impossiable to set aside the influences of our own minds on the way we perceive things.And to see things from the perspective of others,This is especially so because we are unaware of them most of the time.Consequently,everything we think we know intellectually is filtered through what we already believe.So I guess its a lost cause which the tenor of this thread basicly confirms.


What planet are you fom?

[Lefty]

In his speech in Detroit, the Rev Wright talks about the white brain and the black brain. How crazy is that? I'd like to see the medical evidence of that.

[JustRalph]

Rev. Wright has decided that Black's Have a different kind of Brain than Whites. they can't learn like whites...............

this asshole stepped in it again tonight while speaking to the NAACP. When they get done analyzing this speech Barack is going to look like he didn't have a brain..................

[Gibbon]

A crony insisted on a read through of the thread and wonders if Bala/G could supply any data of reliability on the foreign need for key ingredients within illicit drugs? What's with the insensate diversionary tactic? A simple drive by read of websites covering such topics provide answers. An estimated ten thousand pounds of narco-terrorist product cross our borders 24/7 365 according to DEA, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Dept. of Justice.

Cocaine and Heroin imported from the usual suspects. Methamphetamine imported from the number one producer worldwide, Israel.

Anabolic steroids are produced here and also smuggled across US borders. Same for marijuana although rising production in Canada has forced producers drop prices.

wiki entry here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_smuggling).

Canada/United States Border Drug Threat Assessment: here (http://www.ps-sp.gc.ca/prg/le/bs/uscabdta-eng.aspx)

Large compilation of stats from our own DEA here (http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/concern/18862/index.htm).
more here (http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/statistics.html).

Dept. of Justice here (http://www.usdoj.gov/olp/illegal_drugs.htm).

A personal favorite story here (http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr072105.html).

[Gibbon]

Jerry Falwell took HUGE flak for his comments and later issued a public apology. Only after massive media coverage.

based on your comparisons, I would expect you to demand that Rev. Wright do the same. Have done so along with large numbers of real Christians. This in NO way diminishes his honorable services record.



As a fellow NY'er why no response to post #72 page 5?

[Gibbon]

I'm sure no white preacher EVER served in the military. Can't speak for all but as a general rule – I don't know of any. At least not the big names.

[Gibbon]

Just curious as to what some posters are basing the Bala-Gibbon "duality" on. Has PA confirmed that both use the same IP address? PA has nothing better to do than view logs from captured IP addressess.

Any similariy of expression does not leap out at me. I'm a master at deception and misdirection. Although it is conceivable I suffer from multiple personality disorder. :eek:

[Gibbon]

I read it on the internet, so it must be true! Something about Tom and hcap is terribly perplexing. Both purport to reside at some unpronounceable town in upstate NY.

PA, IP check requested. They may be one of the same ??? :cool:

[JustRalph]

This guy served honorably and received a Bronze Star. It doesn't guarantee you don't turn into an idiot later on............give me a break.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7c/Mcveighmugshot.jpg/200px-Mcveighmugshot.jpg

[hcap]

Something about Tom and hcap is terribly perplexing. Both purport to reside at some unpronounceable town in upstate NY.

PA, IP check requested. They may be one of the same ??? :cool:
I shpell much bettur.

[Tom]

Wright surely has crossed the line of seperation of Church and State.
Where is the lib outrge over that?

[ljb]

Wright surely has crossed the line of seperation of Church and State.
Where is the lib outrge over that?
Huh ?

[PaceAdvantage]

23 year old and unarmed Sean Bell (http://www.newsweek.com/id/134212) {black male} was found guilty of choosing to receive 50 bullets from New York City {my home town} Police 9 millimeter pistols. Young Mr. Bell on his wedding day must have been distraught, walked out of the wedding hall, flagged 4 cops and insisted they shoot him – 50times.I was going to respond to this, but forgot. Here is my reply, since you and everyone else has turned this into racial thing:

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2007/03/18/bell1x-large.jpg

Pictured above are two of the three officers charged in the Bell shooting. Note that one of them is black.

[Lefty]

lbj, what's with the huh? He talked politics in his church. Dims get away with it all the time. Why?

[toetoe]

Gibbon,

Please address the question. WHY did you start this thread ? WHY ? Surely not to call Irrelevant Wright a jackass. Just flaming ? What ? WHAA WHAA WHAT, McHale ?

[bigmack]

Methamphetamine imported from the number one producer worldwide, Israel.
Now that is one odd claim.

According to the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, 65 percent of all meth consumed in the United States now comes from Mexican drug cartels: 53 percent from superlabs in Mexico itself, and 12 percent from Mexican-run superlabs within the U.S. The cartels who so efficiently established super labs in the West Coast in the mid-90s are now moving operations to Mexico, where restrictions on the precursor chemical, pseudoephedrine, have, until very recently, been nonexistent. In 2004, Mexico imported 224 tons of psuedoephedrine, a figure estimated to be double the national demand for cold medicine, and quadruple the 66 tons imported in 2000. To supply their super labs, the cartels are obtaining the chemical in mass quantities, either in bulk directly from overseas suppliers, or from local pharmaceutical companies making legitimate cold pills, or via bogus pharmacy fronts.
Meth (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/etc/updmexico.html)

[JustRalph]

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/3/21/the-reverend-wrights-sabotage.html

[Indulto]

I was going to respond to this, but forgot. Here is my reply, since you and everyone else has turned this into racial thing: ...Hmmmm. So now you need an excuse to jump on the bandwagon? ;)

[Gibbon]

Now that is one odd claim. Those stats appear to be somewhat dated although probably a true reflection today.
Alright, maybe I was slightly hyperbolic but the Israeli mafia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/03/98/russian_mafia/69521.stm) operates internationally.
Best known for sex slave trade throughout Eastern Europe and pill production.






_______________________________
Ours is a government of checks and balances. The Mafia and crooked businessmen make out checks, and the politicians and other compromised officials improve their bank balances. ~ Steve Allen

[Gibbon]

This guy served honorably ... It doesn't guarantee ... idiot Rev has never been accused to criminal activity. Occasional incendiary words, that's words NOT deeds or bullets.

[Gibbon]

WHY did you start this thread? WHY? Surely not to call Irrelevant Wright a jackass. You may interpret this tread any way you choose. I have over a 1000 posts to my name{s} ???
My stands on politics, religion, handicapping and of course capitalism is no mystery.

Perhaps you're filtering thru some from of subconscious bigotry?

Rev is a verifiable, honorable veteran whose service to his country is impeccable. He has NOT used the sacred words of Jesus for personal enrichment.

Those white devils in post #4 have amassed gluttonous wealth at the hands of true searcher for God's riches. Spiritual riches NOT material gain. Fake, phony, fraud Christians who seek Lucifer's glory. Included in this group is Bush who practices a cult like form of Christianity called Dominion (http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/cor/dominion.htm) Theology.

[PaceAdvantage]

He has NOT used the sacred words of Jesus for personal enrichment.

Those white devils in post #4 have amassed gluttonous wealth at the hands of true searcher for God's riches. Spiritual riches NOT material gain. Fake, phony, fraud Christians who seek Lucifer's glory. Included in this group is Bush who practices a cult like form of Christianity called Dominion (http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/cor/dominion.htm) Theology.Really? No material gain for Rev. Wright? Really?

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/27/obamas-former-pastor-builds-a-multimillion-dollar-retirement-home/

Does every mild mannered person who has not amassed gluttonous wealth get to retire in a $1.6 million dollar house?

[Gibbon]

Contrast that with Joel Osteen “if you believe it, you can own it” ministry.
Osteen personal fortune is estimated at 25 million cash.
Separate from his ministry which is said to be worth 100 million.

He was quoted on cbsnews' 60mins. "I'm capable of bench pressing 400 pounds because God makes me do it."

[toetoe]

Gibbon,

So why not start a thread about evil white preachers ? That would be too straightforward. You want to WAY overpraise this psychologically questionable, former Purple Heart-winning BUM, then you want to use his integrity ( :lol: ) to invoke the well-they're-former-slaves-so-they're-untouchable bilge. You WANTED negative feedback, so you could launch into this claptrap about his white counterparts and Toetoe's loser lifestyle --- what was it, I'm a dimwitted warlock ? Oh, no. THAT'S right ... I'm a guy that expects black men to be GOOD men, not just twisted, bitter, Enlish language-challenged, drug-addled failures. God, that's the worst thing I could demand of anyone. :eek:

Did you have the rhetorical integrity to just complain about Falwell, et al.? No, you wanted someone to DARE reject your enshrinement of the black man as the noblest savage God ever created. That way, you could expiate your own shame at your subconscious belief in black inferiority (hello, liberals --- sound familiar ?). Well, I reject it, Gibbon.

Now, let's make sure we get those rates of black baseballers up, up, up. Coaches, too. Hey, I think Carmelo Anthony would be a great candidate for President. Come on, he's black. Don't be a hater. :D

[Indulto]

Really? No material gain for Rev. Wright? Really?

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/27/obamas-former-pastor-builds-a-multimillion-dollar-retirement-home/

Does every mild mannered person who has not amassed gluttonous wealth get to retire in a $1.6 million dollar house?Is that structure intended only as Wright's residence or is it also expected to be a working/meeting place for for Wright and Church workers. Is it intended to house guests on church business/activities? Is it supposed to contain a Library/Museum for Wright/Church activities/accomplishments?

I can't find anything to prove or disprove that using Google, but then my searching skills seem to be less effective lately.

[rastajenk]

Being a veteran isn't enough cover for being a bald-faced liar. (http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2008/04/wright-is-wrong.html)

Indulto, the linked piece says the house is "currently under construction in a gated community." Now, I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt that gated communities are open to things like meeting areas, conference centers, museums, and other open-access facilities.

[falconridge]

That way, you could expiate your own shame at your subconscious belief in black inferiority (hello, liberals --- sound familiar ?). Well, I reject it [...]
From Shelby Steele's essay, "The Age of White Guilt and the Disappearance of the Black Individual," published in the November 2002 issue of Harper's:

Two great, immutable forces have driven America's attitudes, customs, and public policies around race. The first has been white racism, and the second has been white guilt. The civil-rights movement was the dividing line between the two. Certainly there was some guilt before this movement, and no doubt some racism remains after it. But the great achievement of the civil-rights movement was that its relentless moral witness finally defeated the legitimacy of racism as propriety--a principle of social organization, manners, and customs that defines decency itself. An idea controls culture when it achieves the invisibility of propriety. And it must be remembered that racism was a propriety, a form of decency. When, as a boy, I was prohibited from entering the fine Christian home of the occasional white playmate, it was to save the household an indecency. Today, thanks to the civil-rights movement, white guilt is propriety--an utterly invisible code that defines decency in our culture with thousands of little protocols we no longer even think about. We have been living in an age of white guilt for four decades now.

What is white guilt? It is not a personal sense of remorse over past wrongs. White guilt is literally a vacuum of moral authority in matters of race, equality, and opportunity that comes from the association of mere white skin with America's historical racism. It is the stigmatization of whites and, more importantly, American institutions with the sin of racism. Under this stigma white individuals and American institutions must perpetually prove a negative--that they are not racist--to gain enough authority to function in matters of race, equality, and opportunity. If they fail to prove the negative, they will be seen as racists. Political correctness, diversity policies, and multiculturalism are forms of deference that give whites and institutions a way to prove the negative and win reprieve from the racist stigma. [...]

People often deny white guilt by pointing to its irrationality--"I never owned a slave," "My family got here eighty years after slavery was over." But of course almost nothing having to do with race is rational. That whites are now stigmatized by their race is not poetic justice; it is simply another echo of racism's power to contaminate by mere association. [...]

Prof. Steele is the author of White Guilt: How Blacks and Whites Together Destroyed the Promise of the Civil Rights Era: New York, HarperCollins, 2006.

[Tom]

I don't feel guilty about anything.
I had no control over what came before me so I don't worry about what happened. I don't think I have any stigma. And I am not exactly PC too often.:rolleyes:

What was was. I wasn't there.

I deal with today and tomorrow, not yesterday. You don't move forward by looking backwards.

[toetoe]

Thanks for putting my feelings into coherent words, falc.

Thanks to Shelby Steele for DARING to try to see what makes white people tick. :ThmbUp:

Now, the fellow investigating Ol' Rev is named Greenberg. Hmm ... can't we all just get along ? :D

[bigmack]

Those stats appear to be somewhat dated although probably a true reflection today.
Alright, maybe I was slightly hyperbolic but the Israeli mafia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/03/98/russian_mafia/69521.stm) operates internationally.
Best known for sex slave trade throughout Eastern Europe and pill production.
Israel & meth. :lol: Good God, man, come to your senses. Mr. Stats pulls them out of his ars?

The only right track you stumbled into in this thread is when you were tempted to pull the plug ala. ANSmith. Listen to your gut.

Toes hit the nail here:
So why not start a thread about evil white preachers ? That would be too straightforward. You want to WAY overpraise this psychologically questionable, former Purple Heart-winning BUM, then you want to use his integrity ( :lol: ) to invoke the well-they're-former-slaves-so-they're-untouchable bilge.

[toetoe]

Mr. Steele is very readable, and liberal haters notwithstanding, he has no real axe to grind. Of course, he's no Screamin A. Smith, the acknowledged expert on things racial.

Thomas Sowell is disqualified from serious consideration, as Cornel West called him "arguably the whitest man in America." Somehow, that is a great line --- maybe it was the nebbishy delivery that tickled me. You know what ? I'll take him.

[Gibbon]

What was was. I wasn't there. I deal with today and tomorrow, not yesterday.... The germinating seeds of today were planted yesterday.
Same as today's seeds will cast shadows tomorrow.

The playing field is not quite fair ... yet.

[Gibbon]

Mack,

http://www.boston.com/news/daily/26/ecstasy.htm

Meth or Ecstasy: a pill is a pill who cares?
I'm no expert. Perhaps you can share your obvious pill popping experiences with us.

Your recent posts have been nothing short of a hallucinogenic barrage of incoherent thoughts.





But perhaps more striking, the report found that Israel is "no longer just a user nation, but like Colombia, Thailand and Pakistan, it has also now become a trafficking power." Authorities say Israeli crime groups have for several years had a virtual monopoly on global distribution of Ecstasy (though police say Russians are also major players, and Colombian and Dominican groups, realizing the potential for profits, are gaining ground.) http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/05/Israel/student_spyring2.html

[toetoe]

Sorry for just noticing this, hank, but your thread on perspective is wonderful. However, someone that does not get past a negative experience has not really achieved perspective. Everybody has an old aunt or uncle that has some very scary views, I guess. The relatives put up with it, but as if it were an illness. This is debilitation, not perspective.

I have no truck with McCain's repeated references to "gooks." It shows a lack of something --- perspective, I guess. It's an urge that his judgement has failed to quell. In another way, I'm glad to see a solitary word apparently robbed of its power to destroy --- or maybe those with a supposed monopoly on outrage at the word (East Asiatics, I suppose) have just thrown up their hands in despair.

[bigmack]

Bala/Gibbon/Loon

You're back peddling so fast you might bump into TheFatMan. As far as you're concerned TheFatLady has just finished her recital.

I should have known better than to let a crony give you a window to splain your narco-terrorism philosophy. First you've got Israel as the world's leading producer, then you come back with Israeli Mafia garbage, now you've found a story about a couple of Israeli citizens who had some crap mailed to them.

Keep Googling, you're bound to find something that'll support your preconceived notions.

[Gibbon]

Wright and right. So your taxpayer funded DEA states “uncovered the tip of a worldwide distribution network run by Israeli organized crime” they are what? Anti-Semitic

Truth is troubling.

[Gibbon]

The only right track you stumbled into in this thread is when you were tempted to pull the plug ala. ANSmith. Listen to your gut. This time will be less explosive, only personal.

[riskman]

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/3/21/the-reverend-wrights-sabotage.html

From The Comments section the above link.


"I disagree with the sabotage meme, but I think Obama's in a quagmire with Wright.


Obama's spin is that poor whites and blacks are oppressed by rich white people and the government institutions that constitute America's civic establishment.


He positions himself as the "healer" and "uniter" who can reconcile America's partisan and racial divides, yet masks his views of America in sweeping exhortations for "change". Obama's 20 year mentor is a fountain of hate speech against whites who promotes disunity in our country. His wife isn't very proud of our country either, unless you spin her plain language.


Nowhere in Obama's speeches is there an admonition to "change" anti-social behavior by the black underclass that has been destroying our cities for two generations...rampant violent crime, family dysfunction, unparented children socialized by street gangs, destructive hip-hop themes.

This socially destructive behavior is blamed by Obama and Wright on the "white establishment", absolving blacks who support, aid, and abet it of any responsibility.


Americans of goodwill, which form the vast majority of all races, honor King's guidance to judge people by the content of their character. Obama's one-sided notion of black victimization and black freedom from responsibility has been challenged by braver black leaders, including Bill Cosby, Juan Williams, and Thomas Sowell. Were Obama serious about being a uniter, the breakdown of social order in black communities over the past 50 years would justify as prominent a lament in his speeches as his recitation of black repression that occurred from 50 to 150 years ago. Underclass destructiveness is the elephant in the room impairing America's race relations. It's so politically explosive, it can't ever be discussed...anywhere in a public forum. Anyone who raises the subject will be eternally castigated as racist.


To their credit since WWII, America's burgeoning black middle class has risen from the underclass, by classic personal discipline, hard work, delayed gratification, and constructive behavior. But Obama neither speaks eloquently of those hard-earned advancements nor seeks to lead any "change" in that positive direction within the underclass.


The post-racial and post-partisan unity America so desperately wants requires leaders who will urge ALL Americans, whites and blacks, Democrats and Republicans, anti-war demonstrators and national defense advocates, establishment figures and progressive activists, to adopt socially cooperative behavior, and to eschew socially divisive themes. Real national unity can only be based on mutual compromise, a theme you never hear from Obama. Blaming America's disunity only on the establishment, Republicans, and whites without equal emphasis on underclass blacks, partisan Democrats, and progressive activists will perpetuate the current disunity. That isn't what America wants, but that's what Obama's leadership portends.


Obama doesn't project the balance, the leadership, or the courage, to move beyond black victimization themes and progressive rhetoric toward a balanced national reconciliation. Instead, his eloquent vision strives to attract Democrats, Independents, and disaffected Republicans to his vague agenda of "change". In this regard, Obama is as political as he is eloquent. But, he is proposing to lead half the country to an overwhelming political victory in order to disengage the other half from its influence on national policy. He never discusses compromise on national policy and has sought none as a US Senator. His appeal is inherently divisive, not unifying. Without even-handed policy balance, the defeated half will be angry and reactive, and no more cooperative than during the past 20 years. Because Obama's acting as a divider, I believe can't be a leader of all Americans, and is thus unelectable. "


Well, that was a mouthful.

[bigmack]

To review, you type:
My beliefs are that America perpetuates a culture of poverty. Our seductive materialist society frowns on savings while venerates consumption. Individuals like myself can break this cycle, entire neighborhoods cannot. Government must not shirk its responsibility to defend the poor from injustice. If government will not do this, as it has turned a blind eye and deaf ear to stopping narco-terrorist products, govt by inaction, has de facto legalizing drugs. Drugs -- the principle instigator of crime and violence throughout inner city ghettos across America.
And we're now in the throws of you babbling about the Israeli Mob & Ecstasy? Truth is troubling indeed, particularly when one flails about in search of it like a fresh caught trout. Are you brownie or a cut throat?
This time will be less explosive, only personal.
No more Micro$haft threads? What a relief.

Good riddance.

[JustRalph]

he's a perch................

More of the victocrat speech from Obama.

That should be the Party he belongs to. The Victocrats!

[Lefty]

there ya go. Let a black man dare to be a conservative and the libs brand him as whitey or Uncle Tom. Conservative blacks can't get into the black caucus. Pretty damn sickening.

[PaceAdvantage]

I wonder if Gibbon realizes that Pat Robertson also served honorably in the US MARINES and depending on who you believe served combat duty in Korea.

Apparently, Rev. Wright didn't face any combat duty either, so the two Reverends are equal in terms of service to their country, with the possibility of Robertson being a little bit more hard core if indeed he faced combat duty in Korea.

With that said, I hope Gibbon extends the same understanding and sense of RESPECT for Robertson as he does for Wright. Robertson's wacky past comments are now apparently golden, according to Gibbon, because Robertson served his country honorably....

[The Judge]

And the military http://www.schlatter.org/liquor.htm http://www.patrobertson.com/militaryservice/

[Ned Locke]

I gotta tell ya, I'm so sick of the obsessionists with nothing to hang their hats on except a Pastor's out of context remarks that I'm gonna go to sleep. Are they this bankrupt that its all they got?

Meanwhile, the American Public catches on too and McCain falls like a stone in the polls.

Enough Already, lets discuss the issues, not whether McCain is Lucifer.


Wright interviewed by Bill Moyers on PBS
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/profile.html
http://patterico.com/2008/04/24/excerpts-from-bill-moyers-interview-of-jeremiah-wright/

A} Served honorably with the US Marines and Navy.
B} Rev served as Cardiopulmonary technician at the National Naval Medical Center.
C} Wright was assigned as part of the medical team charged with care of LBJ after his 1966 surgery.
D} Before leaving the position in 1967, the White House awarded Rev. Wright three letters of commendation.

Not too shabby for a guy who hates America. Seems more of a patriot than current occupant of my white house who ran from his military duty – then and now.





____________________________________
Men stumble over the truth from time to time, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened. ~ Winston Churchill

[Tom]

Truth is troubling.

And apparently elusive! :eek::lol:

[Tom]

I gotta tell ya, I'm so sick of the obsessionists with nothing to hang their hats on except a Pastor's out of context remarks that I'm gonna go to sleep.

Curious, how would one put ALL those racist comments into any context?

[JustRalph]

Curious, how would one put ALL those racist comments into any context?

I have listened to the full audio of Rev. Wright. He is being taken very slightly out of context in the soundbite where he says

"Chickens have come home to roost"

He quoted Elijiah Muhammad (?) earlier in the sermon and Muhammad had used the phrase "chickens have come home to roost" and Wright was making his point by actually referring to the original quote. But it in know way changes the meaning of his statement. He was using it to make the same point as the "inferred" point the soundbite makes. I know it is hard to understand what the hell I just described, without listening to it. Technically it is out of context for just a second, but the point he makes is still the same one the soundbite communicates to the listener/viewer. I urge anyone who is interested to please find a transcript or audio of the entire thing.

He is being slighted in that quote, but with very little malice at all.

[bigmack]

The drift is clear.

i-NxDz6KyR0

[Gibbon]

Rev. Wright didn't face any combat duty either, so the two Reverends are equal in terms of service to their country, with the possibility of Robertson being a little bit more hard core if indeed he faced combat duty in Korea. if indeed......


He enlisted in the Marine Reserves and attended law school, but his education was interrupted when he was called to active duty for the Korean conflict. Robertson has referred repeatedly to his time "in combat" in Korea, but years later Indiana Congressman Pete McCloskey, who also served in Korea, remembered hearing Robertson brag that his father, the Senator, "had gotten him out of combat duty" and that Robertson had done his clerical work in a quiet administrative office. Robertson publicly announced a lawsuit against McCloskey for saying this, then quietly dropped the suit due to "scheduling conflicts" and paid McCloskey's court costs. --> Source (http://www.nndb.com/people/552/000022486/) Typical of all you phony conservatives. NO respect for institution which afforded {payed by blood} you the very right you wish to deprive Rev. Wright.

How I despise RINO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_In_Name_Only)'s

[Gibbon]

Those white ... in post #4 have amassed gluttonous wealth at the hands... Reverend Pat Robertsonmake ... himself a millionaire many times over. His net worth is estimated to be between $200-million and $1-billion. from link noted above. Not to shabby for a man of God.

[Gibbon]

What was omitted from that “chickens come home to roost” youtube clip was Margaret Sanger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger), the mother of abortion rights in my country. A woman whose philosophy of race hygiene or ethnic cleansing, as we call it using today's standards, have murdered countless black babies in their mothers womb.

Of course since Roe v. Wade, millions of white babies have also been murdered. Rev would say, the chicken have indeed come home to roost.

[PaceAdvantage]

You know what Gibbon. You're a fraud. Plain and simple.

You and the Rev. Wright want all of us to UNDERSTAND....to UNDERSTAND where all of this is coming from....to UNDERSTAND how Black Churches work....all this hateful and inaccurate SPEW coming from the lips of the good REVEREND must be STUDIED by us ignorant WHITE FOLK so that we can UNDERSTAND.....

Yet, nobody demanded anyone try and UNDERSTAND Pat Robertson and his post 9/11 comments....nobody demanded anyone try and UNDERSTAND Jerry Falwell's post 9/11 comments....

Those two were MOCKED, and RIDICULED and BEATEN DOWN until they either apologized or were marginalized by enough of your kind to make a difference.

I'm not saying Robertson or Falwell's words were any less hateful or any less offensive than Wright. What I'm saying is that both you and the Reverend Wright are FRAUDS and HYPOCRITS for not extending the same UNDERSTANDING and RESPECT to others that both you and Wright now DEMAND and EXPECT.

[magwell]

What was omitted from that “chickens come home to roost” youtube clip was Margaret Sanger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger), the mother of abortion rights in my country. A woman whose philosophy of race hygiene or ethnic cleansing, as we call it using today's standards, have murdered countless black babies in their mothers womb.

Of course since Roe v. Wade, millions of white babies have also been murdered. Rev would say, the chicken have indeed come home to roost.
Speaking before an audience that included Marion Barry, Cornel West, Malik Zulu Shabazz of the New Black Panther Party and Nation of Islam official Jamil Muhammad, Wright praised Louis Farrakhan, defended the view that Zionism is racism, accused the United States of terrorism, repeated his view that the government created the AIDS virus to cause the genocide of racial minorities, stood by other past remarks (”God damn America”) and held himself out as a spokesman for the black church in America.

In front of 30 television cameras, Wright’s audience cheered him on as the minister mocked the media and, at one point, did a little victory dance on the podium. It seemed as if Wright, jokingly offering himself as Obama’s vice president, was actually trying to doom Obama; a member of the head table, American Urban Radio’s April Ryan, confirmed that Wright’s security was provided by bodyguards from Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam.

[Lefty]

At least Falwell and Robertson finally shut up but Wright just keeps goin on.
And he says a lot morethan either. I never heard falwell or Robertson say
"God Damn America" and those words are shocking coming from any American.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, the new theory is that Wright is intentionally trying to bring Obama down, because if Obama wins, then it kinda puts the killjoy on Wright's constant "WHITES=BAD" routine.

Then how will Wright pay for his $1.6million spread if nobody is bothering to listen to his crap anymore? Humble preacher my ass.....nothing humble about him or his "retirement" house....

[PaceAdvantage]

It's funny how the left marginalzed Robertson and Falwell these past years, but Farrakhan is enjoying some sort of resurgence ever since Obama showed up....

Wright (Obama's spiratual mentor) said this the other day about Farrakhan:

I’ve said, as I said on Bill Moyers, when Louis Farrakhan speaks, it’s like E.F. Hutton speaks, all black America listens.

Let's listen to a little Farrakhan for a moment, shall we?

Hitler was a very great man. He wasn't great for me as a Black man but he was a great German and he rose Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) up from the ashes of her defeat by the united force of all of Europe and America after the First World War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World_War). Yet Hitler took Germany from the ashes and rose her up and made her the greatest fighting machine of the twentieth century, brothers and sisters, and even though Europe and America had deciphered the code that Hitler was using to speak to his chiefs of staff, they still had trouble defeating Hitler even after knowing his plans in advance.

[Gibbon]

...accused the United States of terrorism Interesting choice or words. Born Black in America under 150 years of KKK lynching.
You're right, “terrorism” is too strong a word. I'll look for something somewhat tame to satisfy your delicate sensibilities.

[JustRalph]

Sweet Louie was wrong, they were the 2nd Best fighting force in the world.....................

[Gibbon]

You know what Gibbon. You're a fraud. Plain and simple. Am I any less a fraud than Bush dragging us into war with Iraq and Afghanistan while never carpet bombing Afghanistan's opium fields? The very source where conspiracy theories are born.

Afghanistan – an estimated 75 percent of the worlds opium trade originations. Later refined into Heroin for Western consumption. The war on terror, NOT in poor communities.

Say, come to think of it, the war was never about oil.
It's always been about free flow of drugs across borders. :liar:

[PaceAdvantage]

Bush did what he thought he had to do....and why are you bringing him up? Stick to the issue at hand.

[Gibbon]

Come on PA. Wright is using “great” in a historical context.
Great in size and scope. Great, as in historical influence.
Great as in - major significance or importance.
Great as in - historically remarkable or extraordinary.

Historians need to remain morally and ethically detached. Otherwise, their understandings would be clouded by judgment/biases and lack of objectivity. Historians report facts without providing interpretation to those facts.

“He wasn't great for me as a Black man but he was a great German....” does not speak to a great moral human being rather an important historical figure.

Germane to this thread I suspect many of you have no Black friendships. Generally, the dilemma arises from lack of empathy. The so called Black middle class has to work harder than privileged white classes.

[Lefty]

All middle class people work hard, black or white and it has no connection to so called priveledged whites. In fact, Rev Wright 1s living better than most of us, black or white or any other ethnic group.

[Indulto]

Few would give a “damn” about Wright if he weren’t useful to some as an instrument to discredit Obama. As he now is actively working to the detriment of the Obama campaign, this is my last word related to the man, but I feel compelled to address the attitude of some contributors to this thread.

The most they have proven is that Wright is “guilty” of an unwillingness to dismiss past transgressions by a particular group of people against his ethnic group; a “crime” still committed by SOME people of several other ethnic groups.

Will all Armenians stop resenting Turks? Will all Jews ever stop resenting Germans? Will all Palestinians ever stop resenting Israelis and vice-versa? Will all Japanese-Americans ever stop resenting non-Japanese Americans who supported incarcerating them after Pearl Harbor? Will all American Indians ever stop resenting the decimation of their populations and taking of their lands? Will all black descendents of slaves ever stop resenting white Americans who emigrated freely to this country and were not repeatedly subjected to indignities (and atrocities); including some who actually engaged in such practices?

I feel no “guilt” for what happened to the victims in all the above circumstances, but I have to acknowledge that, but for grace or good fortune, the experiences of my ancestors could have affected me in similar fashion, had I been given sufficient reinforcement.

Financial reparation not only has its limitations, but can’t begin to address the recognized impact, and creates new problems as well. But is it really beyond some of my opponents -- who aren’t wrong in advocating that each of us has to keep trying in the face of adversity – to understand that a person can justifiably harbor such resentment and still see some people of the offending group as worthwhile individuals and even as friends? Actions still speak louder than words.

Meanwhile, putting the pastoral pistol out to pasture is proving problematic as he panders to Clinton supporters. Hopefully this will free the latter to address those trying to diminish him by association. Obama needs to attack the attempts of his detractors to avoid dealing with the issues. He’s got to speak out with passion and detail about the things that really matter. It’s time for him to show that when the going gets tough …

[Greyfox]

this is my last word related to the man,
…

Okay, you've had your last word related to the man and made some excellent points.
The bottom line is that Obama has to deal with Wright. To date he hasn't.
If he can't handle an issue as small as Wright, he can't handle big issues related to being Commander in Chief. It's just that simple. He ain't the man for the job.

[hcap]

Okay, you've had your last word related to the man and made some excellent points.
The bottom line is that Obama has to deal with Wright. To date he hasn't.
If he can't handle an issue as small as Wright, he can't handle big issues related to being Commander in Chief. It's just that simple. He ain't the man for the job.Either was George W. Churchill.

Good chance he will be the nominee. Certainly my choice over McSame.
http://bp3.blogger.com/_sVfYYHr3cdo/SBYGvcnavdI/AAAAAAAAAm8/PsbyEa2PKEw/s400/obamangirl.bmp

[Lefty]

hcap, it's a nobrainer those ofyou that want this country to go socialist would vote for Obama. He's going to raise taxes and try to implement some sort of nationalized healthcare. He doesn't want to fight out enemies but talk to them; that means ultimately they will strike once they've fooled him with their false promises.

[toetoe]

Ladies and gentlemen, for my next trick, I will pull a rabbit out of my hat.

ABRA CADABRA ... MALIK ... ZULU ... SHABAZZ !!! Ta-DAAA !

Thank you, thank you. If anyone beat me to the punch and made up these words himself, my apologies.

[toetoe]

Gibbon,

ALL of us grew up under the stigma of lynchings and other atrocities. Or am I not entitled to acknowledge them ? Shall I just get loaded, march down the streets of Berkeley, set dumpsters afire, and generally inconvenience as many people as I can ? Will that get me ANY credibility ?

Regarding black friends, mine ran the gamut from the richest family on my block in Berkeley (the TRAITORS ... how COULD they keep accepting money from Dr. _______'s patients ?!?) to the same fraudulently "emancipated" kids that used to kick me off the basketball courts at Live Oak Park. You see, waiting your turn was a quaint, weakass holdover from the days of the European oppressors. Of course, I eventually made friends with the majority of them. Let's see, the majority of my colleagues in the high school band were black, and we shared love for music and an annual trip to the Reno competition every year.
Now, don't you see you MUST come with a better argument, and forgo the personal attacks ? Just take a dep breath, then give me your best volley. In fact let loose with a salvo.

[dav4463]

I have no use for a racist who hates America. Wright is a sorry excuse for a human being.

[toetoe]

Indulto,

Until I get your personal story, I won't be able to find the customized "tread lightly around the handicapped" strategy just right, just for you, and I'm guessing you probably don't even need one. Wow, what a concept. No fawning "roll over" treatment for fellow citizens. Cuz that's what it is, an allowance for bad behavior based on some deficiency. Pity is inappropriate, but carte blanche is worse still. Imagine sitting down with an old black man at Starbucks. If he has half a brain, he will want to scram when the young white guy says, "Gee, was Jim Crow rough for you ? No, I'm fine. I'm just wringing my hands." Does the shadow of past injustice darken everything, everywhere, forever ? The Armenians lost their mountain to the Turks. That is a tragedy, but shall I then condone that horrible blackmail stratagem they, the diminished, damaged Armenians employed through the Facelift of the House, D-Ca. ? Absolutely not ! Now, imagine me, starting new paragraphs where appropriate. :faint:

[JustRalph]

Hey Gibbon? What now?

Barack just threw Rev. Wright and his 8000 Church mates under the bus. For good measure he tossed Calypso Louie under there with them.

I would think he just tossed about 25 percent of the black vote out with them. Amazing............he made a political calculation and took the leap.

Oh what fun there is going to be on the cable channels for the next few days

[Marshall Bennett]

So take a ring side seat and sit back . Watch the morons beat each other up !!

[Gibbon]

I have no use for a racist who hates America. Hate? See post #1.
What have you done in service of your country?

[lsbets]

Hate? See post #1.
What have you done in service of your country?

There are a lot of lame arguments put forward on here, but that has to be one of the lamest.

[Gibbon]

JR,

Would you expect anything other then disowning the “former” pastor?
It takes a certain kind of personality to run for prez. Mostly self serving egomaniacs.
Our first eight prez. understood they were elected to serve the people not to rule over the people. No Kings or Caesar need apply. Today the prez has too much power.

The “former” pastor to the stars is writing a book due out sometime late this year.

[Show Me the Wire]

The most appaling comment made by this Minister was contained in his remarks about his relationship with Louis Farrakhan. This questionable minister stated Farrakhan was not his enemy and proceeded to give three examples to support his assertion that Farrakhan was not his enemy. I am paraphasing here, as he indicated FarraKhan was not his (Wright's) enemy because 1) Farakhan did not put him in chains, 2) did not put him into slavery and 3) or did not make him this color ( I understand it to mean Black).

Therefore, Wright has concluded his enemies are the ones that have put him in chains, put him into slavery or made him this specific color. Stop wright there (pun intended)! This self-proclaimed Christian Minister classifies his Creator as his enemy as his Creator is the only entity that can make Wright that color. This is truly appaling speech from a self-acknowledged Christian Minister which illustrates the ignorance and the arrogance spewed forth from his particular pulpit.

[Gibbon]

Regarding black friends, mine ran the gamut.... Ain't you special! What lily white enclave did you grow up in? I grew up in pre-Giuliani East New York, Brooklyn. At the time, murder central, USA, far worse than Detroit. Today drug capital of NYC and vicinity. You can’t begin to imagine your worst nightmares played out everyday. It took Herculean effort just to muster the courage to walk to school.

You come from privileged classes. I have 100s of posts to my name. As a rule I take conservative, occasionally libertarian positions on most issues. Under these circumstances I’m tolerated. BUT, ONE hot button racial post and I’m vilified.

Someone dared to bring up Bill Cosby and Thomas Sowell as if I needed to be reminded what these men stand for - as I take positions similar to thiers.

What to don’t “see” is the condition of your soul. Latent bigotry throughout this one thread. Truly shameful.

[Lefty]

Gibbon, I don't see any latent bigotry in this tread but I did hear a lot of overt bigotry spewing from Rev Wright's mouth. And he's still spewing that white's created aids to kill blacks and that America is no better than Al Qaeda. It does not make me bigoted to have words of that nature disgust me and btw, those words disgust a lot of black people too.

[Lefty]

It wasn't long ago Obama critiscized the criticism of Rev Wright by saying we had taken only soundbytes out of context. But now, based on those same "out of context sounbytes" Obama has "hammered " the Rev and put a lot of "distance" between himself and Rev Wright. Hmmmm...

[Marshall Bennett]

It wasn't long ago Obama critiscized the criticism of Rev Wright by saying we had taken only soundbytes out of context. But now, based on those same "out of context sounbytes" Obama has "hammered " the Rev and put a lot of "distance" between himself and Rev Wright. Hmmmm...
Obviuosly putting his political agenda ahead of his religious beleifs . :cool:

[Indulto]

Indulto,

Until I get your personal story, I won't be able to find the customized "tread lightly around the handicapped" strategy just right, just for you, and I'm guessing you probably don't even need one. Wow, what a concept. No fawning "roll over" treatment for fellow citizens. Cuz that's what it is, an allowance for bad behavior based on some deficiency. Pity is inappropriate, but carte blanche is worse still. Imagine sitting down with an old black man at Starbucks. If he has half a brain, he will want to scram when the young white guy says, "Gee, was Jim Crow rough for you ? No, I'm fine. I'm just wringing my hands." Does the shadow of past injustice darken everything, everywhere, forever ? The Armenians lost their mountain to the Turks. That is a tragedy, but shall I then condone that horrible blackmail stratagem they, the diminished, damaged Armenians employed through the Facelift of the House, D-Ca. ? Absolutely not ! Now, imagine me, starting new paragraphs where appropriate. :faint:tiptoe,
Permit me to postpone my personal paragraphs until our paths cross outside of cyberspace. ;)

Despite providing SMTW with a target, the following is a one-time trailer deployment:
-------------------------------
Those who cannot remember the past are condemed to repeat it - George Santayana

[ArlJim78]

It wasn't long ago Obama critiscized the criticism of Rev Wright by saying we had taken only soundbytes out of context. But now, based on those same "out of context sounbytes" Obama has "hammered " the Rev and put a lot of "distance" between himself and Rev Wright. Hmmmm...
umm yeah, not long ago Obama said that he could no sooner disavow the Reverend than he could disavow black america.

[boxcar]

DRIVEWAY,

Myself, as a practicing Christian, yes I am. No contradiction here.
Let’s put partisanship aside for a moments as I ask you what did the Rev say that counsler to Ronald Reagan, Jerry Falwell hasn’t spewed from his hole during 9/11.

So, Gib -- as a self-proclaimed "practicing Christian", I take it that you possess something more than a passing familiarity with the contents of the bible? Could you please point us to chapter and verse of where scripture speaks to "the black church" - or for that matter to "the Latin church" or to "the Asian church" or to "the Hispanic church" or to "the Anglo-Saxon church", etc.? Or does scripture simply speak often "to the church", i.e a unified church -- a unified body in Christ? I'd like your take on this since Wright claims that his [racist] detractors (by implication) are attacking "the black church".

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Obviuosly putting his political agenda ahead of his religious beleifs . :cool:

What's even funnier is that Wright totally dismisses NoBama's repudiation as mere political posturing. Who are we to believe, Liberals? NoBama or his pastor? Which of these mighty fine professing Christians are lying through their teeth?

Boxcar

[Tom]

And he throws another on under the bus! :lol::lol::lol:


Operation Chaos......working well!

[The Judge]

Wright wasn't talking about the church in bible but the real church as it exists in the world. I take it you have never heard of a Black church. What about a Mexcian church in Mexico?

[magwell]

Hate? See post #1.
What have you done in service of your country? pure unadulterated horse manure. Anyone with eyes can see that Wright’s performances are finely honed, time-tested acts. His anti-white, anti-American, “imperialist”-bashing shtick was not developed overnight or over the past few years. He’s been peddling AIDS conspiracies for decades. He’s been grievance-mongering about slavery for decades. He’s been flirting with the Nation of Islam, which provided security for his speeches, for decades. He’s been a shouting left-wing radical for decades.

[Lefty]

Judge, I know plenty of peoplethat go to black churches, and they tell me what Wright rants about is not what goes on at their Church.

[Gibbon]

...familiarity with the contents of the bible? Could you please point us to chapter and verse of where scripture speaks to "the black church" Not so fast Box, not so fast. More later tonight…

Only because I know you to be a practicing Christian will I respond to your fallacious query. My racing day is about to begin so in brief:

In the not to distant past Black Americans were whipped, beaten and otherwise forcibly coerced into adapting the Christian religion by our white slave masters. So we did in large numbers. As recently as 1965 Black America was forbidden to congregate with white Christians. Out of necessity we were forced to build our own church experience without support. And now white Christians wish to absolve themselves from this moral dilemma?

[GaryG]

Judge, I know plenty of peoplethat go to black churches, and they tell me what Wright rants about is not what goes on at their Church.Absolutely....my church gets together with a black Baptist church once a month for an afternoon of preachin, prayin, singin and eatin. They consider Wright to be a renegade that is just seeking publicity. He is an embarrassment to black Christians. The message preached in legitimate black churches is no different from that preached by their white counterparts.

[Lefty]

Gibbon, and it's over! White Christians also stopped slavery, died to stop slavery. You are free. Black people have succeeded in all walks of life as we move forward. It will not serve you well to to look back instead of forward. This country has dome more to rectify the sins ofthe past than any other in the world. If you think this country is as rotten and racist as Wright portrays it, why would anyone that blves that choose to stay.?Unlike some other countries in the world our citizens can come and go as they please. The future is before you, not behind you.

[shanta]

Absolutely....my church gets together with a black Baptist church once a month for an afternoon of preachin, prayin, singin and eatin. They consider Wright to be a renegade that is just seeking publicity. He is an embarrassment to black Christians. The message preached in legitimate black churches is no different from that preached by their white counterparts.


agree 100% G.

My experience is exactly the same as you wrote above when I go with my "young ones" to Mass. :ThmbUp:

This guy Wright is a jerkoff posing as a pastor.Jerkoffs come in all colors with this particular one happening to be black.

[boxcar]

Wright wasn't talking about the church in bible but the real church as it exists in the world. I take it you have never heard of a Black church. What about a Mexcian church in Mexico?

So, let me see if I have this right: We are to believe there is "the church" -- the only one the bible talks about (but according to you, this isn't the "real" church), and then there are black, white, yellow, brown churches, etc. -- and all these are the "real" churches?

But you are right about one thing: Wright was talking only about a church that exists in his carnal, bigoted, race-baiting, race-pimping imagination that finds its root in his hate-filled heart, and not the only one that God often spoke about through his apostles whose words are recorded in the bible.

Granted, there are predominantly white and black and Hispanic congregations, etc. But to say these are THE white, THE black or The Hispanic church is something else altogether.

I have attended services on several occasions in predominantly black congregations, and I can tell you that those black pastors focused entirely on the spiritual truths found in scripture and did not concern themselves with worldly, political matters from the pulpit. But, yet, Wright in his arrogance and and pride presumes to speak for all such congregations -- i.e. "the black church"!?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Absolutely....my church gets together with a black Baptist church once a month for an afternoon of preachin, prayin, singin and eatin. They consider Wright to be a renegade that is just seeking publicity. He is an embarrassment to black Christians. The message preached in legitimate black churches is no different from that preached by their white counterparts.

AMEN!!!

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Not so fast Box, not so fast. More later tonight…

Only because I know you to be a practicing Christian will I respond to your fallacious query. My racing day is about to begin so in brief:

In the not to distant past Black Americans were whipped, beaten and otherwise forcibly coerced into adapting the Christian religion by our white slave masters. So we did in large numbers. As recently as 1965 Black America was forbidden to congregate with white Christians. Out of necessity we were forced to build our own church experience without support. And now white Christians wish to absolve themselves from this moral dilemma?

Thanks for "history" lesson. But that's not what I asked you. I want you to show me where in scripture the idea of "the black", "the white", "the yellow", "the brown" church is to be found. Just because sinful, professing Christians may have treated Blacks poorly doesn't give license to current day professing black Christians to perpetuate that grievous error by speaking of Christ's universal church in segregationist terms. Two wrongs doth not make a right!

Boxcar

[Tom]

Two wrongs doth not make a right!

Then 'splain Affirmative Action to me????:confused::rolleyes:

[boxcar]

Then 'splain Affirmative Action to me????:confused::rolleyes:

Why do I need to explain it? I have long been opposed to this bigoted policy. Whenever you give preferences to one class of people on the basis of skin color, the implementation of that policy always comes at the expense of some other class of folks of different color.

But, of course, your point is well made; for the megabytes of irony is that this irrational, ill-conceived, immoral policy only perpetuates the divisions between the races -- the very result which its proponents sought to remedy in the first place!

Boxcar

[Gibbon]

Gibbon, and it's over! White Christians also stopped slavery... AND professing Christians may have treated Blacks poorly doesn't give license to current day professing black Christians to perpetuate that grievous... Thanks for the reminder. I have three dozen posts on this key point in various debates here vis-à-vis Christianity v. Atheism v. Eastern Mysticism v. Evolution.

What you can’t seem to fathom is that some are old enough to remember 1950’s & ‘60’s America. Rev. Wright is 60plus years old - old enough to have witnessed first hand Christian Black/White segregation in southern and northern Baptist Churches.

Wright has a right to be bitter. You say: get over it! I say leave the man alone. He does NOT have any influence over your personal lives. Yes he’s distasteful but so are white ostentatiously wealthy preachers distorting God’s word for self glorification. {see post #4}

It is your kind who instituted this divergence upon the church and now you say get over it. Once again, you both lack empathy or any compassion. Why do white people insist on controlling everything including another man’s feelings?

[Greyfox]

You say: get over it! I say leave the man alone. He does NOT have any influence over your personal lives.


I just checked back.
Gibbon you started this thread specifically about Jeremiah Wright.
Now you're saying "I say leave the man alone."
If you didn't want anyone "talking about him," why'd you start this thread?

The fact is Rev. Wright's views are a blight on Obama's campaign that is not going to go away easily.

[Gibbon]

I started this tread to note Rev. Wright's military accomplishments. There is another side to his personally I wanted to share. There has never been any subterfuge on my part.

It is I who has been repeatedly attacked.

[Greyfox]

It's good of you to point out that Rev Wright has some redeeming features. Naturally, I would expect that of a minister in any church.
But if you thought posters here weren't going to take objection to some of his previous absurd comments, then you thought wrong.

You mentioned that you feel under attack here. Sorry if that's the case, but do you make it a practice in life to put yourself in a position where people are going to attack you? Some people do that you know. It seems to me that posting a thread about a controversial figure is going to draw ire one way or another.

[bigmack]

It is I who am being attacked.
Where in posts 1-17 were you attacked?

Here's where it gets good. Remember your big post #36 when you were going to "school me".
I'll try to school you smallmack but I fear your narrow intellectual capabilities may hinder understanding.

Upper socio-economics classes have asserted the poor are the cause of their own poverty or blame the poor for their own condition.
Social Darwinism asserts the poor are poor because they are less fit to survive in society.

My beliefs are that America perpetuates a culture of poverty. Our seductive materialist society frowns on savings while venerates consumption. Individuals like myself can break this cycle, entire neighborhoods cannot. Government must not shirk its responsibility to defend the poor from injustice. If government will not do this, as it has turned a blind eye and deaf ear to stopping narco-terrorist products, govt by inaction, has de facto legalizing drugs. Drugs -- the principle instigator of crime and violence throughout inner city ghettos across America.

Many people slip into poverty through no fault of their own. In these cases, government must help to distribute funds. Unfortunately, the track record of government programs is NOT very impressive. Govt spends monies on its own self perpetuating bureaucracy. Before the implementation of many of the Great Society programs, the percentage of people living below the poverty level was 13.6 percent. Twenty years later, the percentage was still 13.6 percent.

We need a welfare system that emphasizes work and initiative and does not foster dependency and laziness. If people have true needs, we should help them. But when they are lazy and have poor work habits, we should admonish them to improve. Our current welfare system perpetuates poverty by failing to distinguish between those who have legitimate needs and those who need to be admonished in their sloth. Indecently, inflation adjusted welfare payments have declined significantly while corporate welfare has increased significantly under Bush.

I believe poverty relief should be a cooperative effort between the government and the church. As I noted above, government can provide solutions to exploitation and oppression by enforcing existing {drug} laws. It can also provide solutions to economic misfortune through various spending programs. But it cannot solve the problems of poverty by addressing injustice and misfortune alone. Poverty is as much a psychological and spiritual problem as it is an economic problem, and it is in this realm that the church can be most effective. Although salvation is not the sole answer, the church is better equipped than the government to meet the psychological and spiritual needs of poverty-stricken people. Most secular social programs do not place much emphasis on these needs and thus miss an important element in the solution to poverty.

As I stated earlier, one of the causes of poverty is the culture of poverty. People are poor because they are poor. An individual who grows up in a culture of poverty is destined for a life of poverty unless something rather dramatic takes place. Poor nutrition, poor education, poor work habits, and poor family relationships can easily condemn an individual to perpetual poverty.
Was that you or Kerby Anderson? What a complete joke you are. I have many other examples of you posting the words of others as your own. You even edit it to appear as if the words are your own.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/4_30_08_14_09_38.png

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/4_30_08_14_13_16.png

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/4_30_08_14_13_49.png

[Lefty]

Nobody has attacked you Gibbon. My advice is to stop playing the victim and get on with life. There is a lot of opportunity in this country for everyone. Some white people enslved black people but those slaves were not taken by force. They were bought from black people. So there's blame on both sides. If we are to truly meld into a color blind society we must look forward together and not backwards separately.

[riskman]

I started this tread to note Rev. Wright's military accomplishments. There is another side to his personally I wanted to share. There has never been any subterfuge on my part.

It is I who has been repeatedly attacked.



Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

[The Judge]

your church meets with a black church my point is made. Out of curiosty why meet with a black church? There must some precived differences but not according to Boxcar.

[Tom]

I started this tread to note Rev. Wright's military accomplishments. There is another side to his personally I wanted to share. There has never been any subterfuge on my part.

It is I who has been repeatedly attacked.

What posts?
I see disagreements with your opinions, and I see many attacks on others by YOU, but I do not see anyone attack YOU.

[boxcar]

AND Thanks for the reminder. I have three dozen posts on this key point in various debates here vis-à-vis Christianity v. Atheism v. Eastern Mysticism v. Evolution.

What you can’t seem to fathom is that some are old enough to remember 1950’s & ‘60’s America. Rev. Wright is 60plus years old - old enough to have witnessed first hand Christian Black/White segregation in southern and northern Baptist Churches.

Wright has a right to be bitter. You say: get over it! I say leave the man alone. He does NOT have any influence over your personal lives. Yes he’s distasteful but so are white ostentatiously wealthy preachers distorting God’s word for self glorification. {see post #4}

It is your kind who instituted this divergence upon the church and now you say get over it. Once again, you both lack empathy or any compassion. Why do white people insist on controlling everything including another man’s feelings?

Ah..now we're getting somewhere. So, according to you it's perfectly acceptable to allow social and political events of the times to shape and mold Christ's church (and I''d remind that it is Christ's church and not any pastor's!) into some worldly-minded, politically-driven institution? Once again, Gib, I ask you: Show me from the scriptures where Christ or his apostles have sanctioned such behavior or policy. And please, spare me another history lesson. I'm not interested in more history. I'm interested in what the bible says about how God wants his church shaped and molded and what God's purpose is for his church. And the reason I want to know this is because Wright professes to not only be a Christian but a man called into God's service -- into the ministry -- into service for the sake of Christ's gospel -- a calling that cannot be surpassed -- at least from a true Christian's perspective.

Insofar as Wright's bitterness, he has absolutely no right to harbor any bitterness in his soul just as a "mere" Christian, let alone as a pastor! Have you ever read any of Paul's pastoral Epistles to Timothy, sir? Are you at all familiar with the rather stringent spiritual requirements for someone aspiring to serve God in the ministry full time? Do I need to elaborate on those requirements? (And that's what they are, incidentally. They're not mere suggestions, advice or guidelines!).

And have you ever heard of a little item in the bible called "forgiveness"? How does this fit in with Wright's bitterness? Are you saying, now, that Wright has every right to not forgive the wrongs he has suffered or his people have suffered. Can you quote me chapter and verse on where this right is contained in the bible?

Finally, I don't suggest that Wright or any other radical leftist, professing Christian "get over it". Instead, I would point them to what the gospel would have them think and behave. And the gospel of Christ does not encourage, condone or endorse bitterness, resentment, hate or malice towards any individual, group or government institution.

So, the bottom line here, Gib, is that Wright, by his own words, gives every indication that he's one of these proverbial wolves in sheep's clothing. He uses Christ's church, generally, and even more specifically the pulpit to spew forth his incendiary, anti-semitic, anti-white rhetoric for the purposes of advancing his own personal agenda, fame and personal wealth.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Nobody has attacked you Gibbon. My advice is to stop playing the victim and get on with life. There is a lot of opportunity in this country for everyone. Some white people enslved black people but those slaves were not taken by force. They were bought from black people. So there's blame on both sides. If we are to truly meld into a color blind society we must look forward together and not backwards separately.

Excellent point, Lefty! Blacks sold their black brothers and sisters into slavery, but that's not something any Lib really wants to acknowledge or talk about. The historical fact is that Africa's tribal cultures and societies were quite often engaged in violent conflicts (and still are today!). Of course, to the victor went the spoils and the most valued of these spoils were human beings (because when it came down to it, it was simply a supply and demand thing)! Anyhow, it was these unfortunate black human beings who were sold by their own to the white slave traders.

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

Where in posts 1-17 were you attacked?

Here's where it gets good. Remember your big post #36 when you were going to "school me".

Was that you or Kerby Anderson? What a complete joke you are. I have many other examples of you posting the words of others as your own. You even edit it to appear as if the words are your own.Wow. Say it isn't so Bala/Gibbon. Plagiarism? Damn....

[bigmack]

Smallmack and dirty Toe have made feeble attempts to mask their obvious effeminate natures by disparaging the US Marines and the US Navy where Rev. Wright served with distinction.

Later, a US president while still in office awarded Rev. Wright three letters of commendation. What is clear, SmallMack and dirty toe have NO respect for either of the institution mentions.

You sirs, have no shame! Hiding behind phony patriotism vomiting vitriolic words stationed behind a keyboard. Two pusillanimous gnats sitting at a computer while Rev. Wright earned his right to free speech. Yes Rev. is a jackass, but he speaks for voices not heard ordinarily.

SmallMack and dirty toe use copious amounts of sophistry and specious reasoning to appear learned when in fact, two dummies with narrow life experiences whose only claim to fame is they share my love of racing. So sit by your computer screens, play away and curse men such as Rev. Wright gifting you the luxury of idleness.
We - have no shame
We - have no respect
We - hide behind a keyboard
We - Are two dummies with narrow life experiences
We - pusillanimous gnats sit at a computer (not cutting & pasting the words of others)
We - use copious amounts of bla bla to appear learned
We- sit by our computer screens with a gift from others

This fool talks about being attacked in this thread and throws around GARBAGE like that? Show me any attack in this thread even close to that degree.

Funniest part is - All the while, this imposter uses the words of others as his own.

Wow!

[GaryG]

It is definitely time for another identity change.....these two are both pretty well worn. Nice job mack....:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Gibbon]

Wow. Plagiarism? Plagiarism: NO

I ghost write on behalf of two ministry in Texas. Also do some server maintenance. Both are unpaid, voluntary positions.
Probe Ministries and renowned African-American preacher, T.D. Jakes.

[JustRalph]

Rev. Wright now officially has the bubonic plague

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080501/pl_bloomberg/axcinkuxnrh8

Reverend Wright's Honorary Degree Canceled by Northwestern

[Gibbon]

Rev. Wright on AIDS, “man made.”

NON black commentary on AIDS
http://youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU&feature=related

[delayjf]

How about that, according so one poster at that youtube sight the aids epidemic was a joint collabaration of the US - USSR to wipe out Africa in the early 1960's.

All this time the Gays have been blaming Reagan and it was Kennedy all the time.

[bigmack]

Plagiarism: NO
I ghost write on behalf of two ministry in Texas. Also do some server maintenance. Both are unpaid, voluntary positions.
Probe Ministries and renowned African-American preacher, T.D. Jakes.
Does Kerby Anderson know that you're his ghost?

http://www.usaradio.com/images/photos/Kerby%20Anderson.jpg

How bout the other several authors you've borrowed from; are you a multi-personality ghost?

[Lefty]

Glenn Beck took the lat half hour of his TV prgm today to play some entire sermons of Rev Wright and they are chilling Tomorrow he will use his entire TV hour to do the same. Listen if you dare. Soundbites and out of context my ass!

[Gibbon]

How bout the other several authors you've borrowed from... ?

__________________________________

Buried Prejudice: The Bigot in Your Brain
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=buried-prejudice-the-bigot-in-your-brain&sc=rss

[bigmack]

?
You don't really want to play this game do you? If so, how bout if we start with the aforementioned KerbyA and proceed from there?

[toetoe]

boxcar,

Leave Gib and Rev alone. Those biblical decrees pertain only to the Church, not to the Black Church, which you apparently will never understand. :lol:

[Lefty]

toe, toe, what? Don't all Christan Churches worship the same God? There have been a lot of black callers to various talk shows that disagree with Rev Wright. Guess they don't understand the black church either.

[toetoe]

I'm trying to prop up the man's argument. Somebody has to try, as he's failed miserably. ;)

[falconridge]

Portsider,

You do realize--don't you?--that toetoe was being ironic. :confused: I sense the same tack in the last sentence of your most recent post is this thread. ;)

Just making sure, as irony's a commodity that's been in woefully short supply. :ThmbUp: :)

[GaryG]

The place where the Rev Wright does his raving is a "church" in name only. Those people listen to his lunatic rants on a Sunday morning and then think they have been to church.

[boxcar]

toe, toe, what? Don't all Christan Churches worship the same God?

Theoretically, yes.

There have been a lot of black callers to various talk shows that disagree with Rev Wright. Guess they don't understand the black church either.

Those callers don't count. They're all Uncle Toms who have had the good sense to flee the "black liberation", "woe-is-poor-me-I'm-a-victim" plantation. They're looked upon by the race hustling radicals as traitorous scum and probably would dearly love to sell these good folks off to some slave traders somewhere just to get them out of this country.

Boxcar

[The Judge]

Talks cheap we know Rev. Wrights short comings its been pointed out on T.V and on this board. I want to know what you say a christian minister should tell his congragation about the War in Iraq. According to you if it's not in the bible then nothing should be said.


The last I checked God was using human beings to teach his word not some mythical christian that exists only in your mind.

That, great Chirstian George Bush, has done more harm then a thousand Rev. Wrights could ever do. Yet you and your crew think he is a great leader and a great christian. So nice ,he stole the election twice what a great Christian he is.

[Tom]

Talks cheap we know Rev. Wrights short comings its been pointed out on T.V and on this board. I want to know what you say a christian minister should tell his congragation about the War in Iraq. According to you if it's not in the bible then nothing should be said.


Not a thing. Seperation of Church and state. He should offer prayers for those there, those killed, and thier families. And move on.

[boxcar]

Talks cheap we know Rev. Wrights short comings its been pointed out on T.V and on this board. I want to know what you say a christian minister should tell his congragation about the War in Iraq. According to you if it's not in the bible then nothing should be said.


The last I checked God was using human beings to teach his word not some mythical christian that exists only in your mind.

That, great Chirstian George Bush, has done more harm then a thousand Rev. Wrights could ever do. Yet you and your crew think he is a great leader and a great christian. So nice ,he stole the election twice what a great Christian he is.

Hey, Judge, you really need to beg, borrow or steal a clue because for starters you don't have the first inkling what I think about Bush. When you make such asinine assumptions, you only betray you mind-numb, robotic mindset that allows your big mouth to perpetually outrun and outdistance your brain with your every word.

And for your info, sir, church services are held for one purpose and one purpose only -- to worship, to praise and to express our adoration and love to the one true living God. Worship services in church are not forums to be used by pastors to grind their political axes or for the advancement of political agendas. In my church (as in all true Christian churches), we pray for our troops. We pray for a quick end to the wars around the globe. We pray for peace. Yet, with the understanding that all be done according to God's sovereign will (something I'm sure only a theist would understand). What we don't do is slap our political leaders upside with our bibles! Nor do we twist, distort or pervert the words of scripture in attempts of proving biblical support for one political/social policy or another.

Boxcar

[toetoe]

The terrifying thing is the reaction of the congregation to EVERY LITTLE THING Rev says. Sometimes nervous, but ALWAYS giggling, chuckling, shouting, etc. God, mediocre though they be, I'll take the Mike Curb Congregation. :faint:

[The Judge]

Thank God there are other churches that Christians can go too. Maybe ones that are a little more adventurous and can pray for peace, an to end hunger and disease while taking action at the sametime.

[boxcar]

Thank God there are other churches that Christians can go too. Maybe ones that are a little more adventurous and can pray for peace, an to end hunger and disease while taking action at the sametime.

Town hall meetings would serve the same purpose. Why do you need a church environment? Because it makes you feel good to play Christian?

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

QUOTE:Nor do we twist, distort or pervert the words of scripture in attempts of proving biblical support for one political/social policy or another.


That is a real laugher........ Each denomination interprets it differently to their own slant..

[Tom]

Thank God there are other churches that Christians can go too. Maybe ones that are a little more adventurous and can pray for peace, an to end hunger and disease while taking action at the sametime.

Like the Catholic Church?
Big talk from the pulpit about how people should just feel free to come to the USA and leech off our resources,but not one dollar coming from their kitty to help cover the expenses.

ALL churches should pay taxes - period. Prayer is nice, cash makes it happen.

[boxcar]

QUOTE:Nor do we twist, distort or pervert the words of scripture in attempts of proving biblical support for one political/social policy or another.


That is a real laugher........ Each denomination interprets it differently to their own slant..

Permit me to tell you what would be the real laugher, if it weren't so sad: You and so many of other libs just can't help but project your own brand of morality or emotional feelings upon all denominations. For you info, individuals and denominations alike can arrive at different interpretations honestly, i.e apart from having ulterior motives. During BitterGate, NoBama projected his own bitterness upon Fly Over Country (small town America) when he made his essentially anti-God and anti-American comments which offended many.

Boxcar

[hcap]

Permit me to tell you what would be the real laugher, if it weren't so sad: You and so many of other libs just can't help but project your own brand of morality or emotional feelings upon all denominations. For you info, individuals and denominations alike can arrive at different interpretations honestly, i.e apart from having ulterior motives. During BitterGate, NoBama projected his own bitterness upon Fly Over Country (small town America) when he made his essentially anti-God and anti-American comments which offended many.

BoxcarWhy isn't McSames' pastor of choice given the same scrutiny as Obamas pastor Wright?

Bill Moyer nails it

"Behold the double standard: John McCain sought out the endorsement of John Hagee, the warmongering, Catholic-bashing Texas preacher, who said the people of New Orleans got what they deserved for their sins.

But no one suggests McCain shares Hagee's delusions or thinks AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuality. Pat Robertson called for the assassination of a foreign head of state and asked God to remove Supreme Court justices, yet he remains a force in the Republican religious right.

After 9/11, Jerry Falwell said the attack was God's judgment on America for having been driven out of our schools and the public square, but when McCain goes after the endorsement of the preacher he once condemned as an agent of intolerance, the press gives him a pass.

Jon Stewart recently played tape from the Nixon White House in which Billy Graham talks in the Oval Office about how he has friends who are Jewish, but he knows in his heart that they are undermining America.

This is crazy and wrong -- white preachers are given leeway in politics that others aren't.

Which means it is all about race, isn't it?"

.................................................. ...................................

So box you say "You and so many of other libs just can't help but project your own brand of morality or emotional feelings upon all denominations For you info, individuals and denominations alike can arrive at different interpretations honestly"


Check out Cornerstone. Your usual tirade against "libs" is the usual crap.
Cornerstone appears to be as twisted as Wright.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20278737/jesus_made_me_puke/print

"I had been attending the Cornerstone Church for weeks, but this was really my first day of school. I had joined Cornerstone — a megachurch in the Texas Hill Country — to get a look inside the evangelical mind-set that gave the country eight years of George W. Bush. The church's pastor, John Hagee, is one of the most influential evangelical preachers in the country — not because his ministry is so very large (although he claims up to 4.5 million viewers a week for his Sunday sermons) but because of his near-absolute conquest of a very trendy niche in the market: Christian Zionism.

The whole idea behind Christian Zionism is to align America with the nation of Israel so as to "hurry God up" in his efforts to bring about Armageddon. As Hagee tells it, only after Israel is involved in a final showdown involving a satanic army (in most interpretations, a force of Arabs led by Russians) will Christ reappear. On that happy day, Hagee and his True Believers will be whisked up to Heaven by God, while the rest of us nonbelievers are left behind on Earth to suck eggs and generally suffer various tortures. "



"Fortenberry began to issue instructions. He told us that under no circumstances should we pray during the Deliverance.

"When the word of God is in your mouth," he said, "the demons can't come out of your body. You have to keep a path clear for the demon to come up through your throat. So under no circumstances pray to God. You can't have God in your mouth. You can cough, you might even want to vomit, but don't pray."

The crowd nodded along solemnly. Fortenberry then explained that he was going to read from an extremely long list of demons and cast them out individually. As he did so, we were supposed to breathe out, keep our mouths open and let the demons out.

.....After a few minutes, there was a little twittering here and there. Nothing serious. I was beginning to think the Deliverance was going to be a bust.

..."In the name of Jesus," continued Fortenberry, "I cast out the demon of astrology!"

..."In the name of Jesus, I cast out the demon of handwriting analysis!" shouted Fortenberry.

...."In the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, I cast out the demon of the intellect!" Fortenberry continued. "In the name of Jesus, I cast out the demon of anal fissures!"

[Lefty]

Only a very dim bulb would think these analogies are even remotely close.
Mcain did not sit in these guys' churches for 20 years.
Now Obama says he guesses he didn't really know Rev Wright at all. Some judge of character, eh what?

[hcap]

The analogies are close McSame sought out Hagees' support. Continues to receive it. What does this say about McSames judgement ?

Also Rev. Rod Parsley has backed McSame. Another Rev in the mold of Hagee.

http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

Meet Rod Parsley.

Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a “war” against the “false religion” of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a “strong, true, consistent conservative.”… McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a “spiritual guide.”


Obama btw, apparently not taking that big a hit in the polls as you might wish Lefty.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/04/opinion/polls/main4069259.shtml

CBS Poll: Support For Obama Rebounds
In Wake Of Controversy Over Former Pastor, Illinois Senator Builds Lead Over McCain, Clinton

(CBS) Democrat Barack Obama appears to have rebounded from some of the damage caused by the controversy surrounding his former pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright, according to the latest CBS News/New York Times poll.

...On one key measure, Obama has seen a big reversal since his denunciation of Wright’s remarks on Tuesday. He now leads presumptive Republican nominee John McCain in the hypothetical fall contest by eleven points, 51 percent to 40 percent.

....The poll also shows good news for both Democrats in a campaign versus McCain in the fall. Just like Obama, Clinton’s lead over McCain has jumped, from 5 to 12 points



Gee Lefty, McSame might turn it around if HE denounced the 2 whackjob (boxcars' favorite "lib? adjective ) reverends as Obama did with Wright.

[Lefty]

And it's ALWAYS you dims that pull out the race card
With me, it's about taxes, and the war and someone who knows enough about economics that doen't threaten the b.s. argument to further tax oil companies. Libdiculous!

[hcap]

Lefty I was primarily responding to boxcar babble
Originally Posted by boxcar
Permit me to tell you what would be the real laugher, if it weren't so sad: You and so many of other libs just can't help but project your own brand of morality or emotional feelings upon all denominations. For you info, individuals and denominations alike can arrive at different interpretations honestly, i.e apart from having ulterior motives. During BitterGate, NoBama projected his own bitterness upon Fly Over Country (small town America) when he made his essentially anti-God and anti-American comments which offended many.

BoxcarI pointed out that Hagee was not a "projection" of ( libs" ) :rolleyes: brand of morality or emotional feelings. Instead he qualifies as clearly if not more as Wright for "whackjob" status on his very own statements.
Rod Parsely as well.

And thank you for not calling libs traitors :rolleyes:

[Lefty]

BTW, M'Cain doing fine considerering there's more registered dems than repubs.
Obama also joined Farakhan in the million man march, now he's denouncing his pastor of 20 years for praising Farakhan. Man this guy is in big trble. And when he loses the General election you guys and the rest of the leftwing nuts will trot out that omnipresent racecard.

[hcap]

1995? A while ago that would make Obama around 33? If McSame can change his views on public policy from 1995 when McSame was 57? Why can't Obama still a young man mature?

However, from Hanity and FOX. It was not as cut and dry as you claim.

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/04/20/despite_obamas_criticisms_of_million_man_march_rac eobsessed_hannity_tries_to_paint_him_as_bigoted_so ulmate_of_farrakhan.php

"FOX News revealed that Obama went as an observer and a critic of Farrakhan’s tactics

....Hannity said, "We have learned about Obama's attendance from an interview he conducted with the Chicago Reader in 1995… FOX News has learned from the interviewer… that Obama went to the march to quote better understand the movement and wanted to be an observer, rather than a participant." In other words, Obama had expressly distanced himself from Farrakhan even then, long before the 2008 presidential campaign.

.....Hannity continued, “Obama's thoughts on the rally are revealed in the Chicago Reader article. Obama said quote, ‘what I saw was a powerful demonstration of an impulse and need for African-American men to come together to recognize each other and affirm our rightful place in the society. But what was lacking among march organizers was a positive agenda, a coherent agenda for change. Without this agenda a lot of this energy is going to dissipate. Exhortations are not enough, nor are the notions that we can create a black economy within America that is… sealed from the rest of the economy and seriously tackle the major issues confronting us.'" So Obama had not just distanced himself from Farrakhan but had also expressly rejected his tactics.

...Conservative Armstrong Williams appeared via a pre-recorded clip. Armstrong said, "(Obama) walked away with an attitude of how we come together as a nation, as black and white and Jewish brethren. He talked about how you show up at these events and how a lot of these black leaders have to talk more than just about anti-Semitism and racism. What he was saying, 'We've got to stop this blame, of this racism, this anti-Semitism and we've got to look at our own communities and build – not as black people.’ He talked about bringing all coalitions together."

[PaceAdvantage]

Pat Robertson called for the assassination of a foreign head of state and asked God to remove Supreme Court justices, yet he remains a force in the Republican religious right.

After 9/11, Jerry Falwell said the attack was God's judgment on America for having been driven out of our schools and the public square, but when McCain goes after the endorsement of the preacher he once condemned as an agent of intolerance, the press gives him a pass.
...
This is crazy and wrong -- white preachers are given leeway in politics that others aren't.

Which means it is all about race, isn't it?"Actually, what is crazy and wrong is that you fail to mention that most if not all of those white preachers were SKEWERED in the press and made PUBLIC APOLOGIES, something the good Rev. Wright has YET TO DO.....I guess you're right....I guess there is a race double standard in play....

Black preachers can get away with saying anything they like, but white preachers have to get on one knee and beg for forgiveness.....

[hcap]

The point is not that they, the white preachers occasionally weasel out momentarily to placate the public, but that they soon reiterate the same crap. It is part of their spiel.

Here he us talking out both sides of his mouth. Within a few paragraphs

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/2006/06/falwell_still_a.html

June 30, 2006
Falwell, Still a Political Powerhouse, Reiterates 9/11 Comments

.................................................. .........................

Hagee has not disavowed his "whackjob" statements. Those statements represent central teachings in his ministry. Rod Parsely as well. Both go further off kilter than Wright. So far they have gotten a pass, along with their devotee John McSame.

After the dem nominee is chosen, McSame and his spiritual advisers will be given more press attention.

[Lefty]

Okay, so if Obama went as a critic of Farakhan why haven't we heard the criticism till just recently. And why didn't he denounce Rev Wright and the church when they gave Farakhan a lifetime achievemrent award?
You can make excuses but in the general election Obama's gonna be seen as just another opprtunist politico. And if people really smarten up, they will denounce anyone that's gonna raisetheir taxes or give Iraq bk to the terrorists. There ya go...

[hcap]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/opinion/04rich.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin


"Mr. Hagee, it’s true, did not blame the American government for concocting AIDS. But he did say that God created Hurricane Katrina to punish New Orleans for its sins, particularly a scheduled “homosexual parade there on the Monday that Katrina came.”

Mr. Hagee didn’t make that claim in obscure circumstances, either. He broadcast it on one of America’s most widely heard radio programs, “Fresh Air” on NPR, back in September 2006. He reaffirmed it in a radio interview less than two weeks ago. Only after a reporter asked Mr. McCain about this Katrina homily on April 24 did the candidate brand it as “nonsense” and the preacher retract it"

[PaceAdvantage]

I wonder if Frank Rich is going to write about Hamas endorsing Obama?
And could Frank Rich have a BIGGER photo of himself on that article?

[Lefty]

h'cap, and M'Cain did not sit at the feets of Hagee for TWENTY YEARS and then say he didn't hear a word.
Your argument weak as water and that kettle won't boil.

[boxcar]

Only a very dim bulb would think these analogies are even remotely close.
Mcain did not sit in these guys' churches for 20 years.
Now Obama says he guesses he didn't really know Rev Wright at all. Some judge of character, eh what?

You nailed it again squarely again, Lefty! It's one thing to sit under the preaching of a pastor for about 20 years and quite another to seek the endorsement of a commercialized preacher (who has slickly marketed himself) to shore of one's political base. At least McCain was pretty transparent about it. NoBama, however, had to lie through his teeth about what he knew and didn't know about Wright's sermons -- only to eventually toss him under the bus in an attempt to salvage what is left of his campaign.

Having said this, however, permit me to myself as clear as humanly possible: None of the presidential candidates are worth the time of day. Not one!

Boxcar

[Indulto]

... Having said this, however, permit me to myself as clear as humanly possible: None of the presidential candidates are worth the time of day. Not one! ...Box,
Does that mean you won't be voting?

[JustRalph]

-TxMa4RLKR0

I find this stuff coming up very early actually................

I can only wonder what they will be like come October

[boxcar]

Why isn't McSames' pastor of choice given the same scrutiny as Obamas pastor Wright?

Bill Moyer nails it

"Behold the double standard: John McCain sought out the endorsement of John Hagee, the warmongering, Catholic-bashing Texas preacher, who said the people of New Orleans got what they deserved for their sins.

But no one suggests McCain shares Hagee's delusions or thinks AIDS is God's punishment for homosexuality. Pat Robertson called for the assassination of a foreign head of state and asked God to remove Supreme Court justices, yet he remains a force in the Republican religious right.

No double standard. We have with NoBama and McCain two very different situations. Hagee was only McCain's "pastor of choice" for a moment -- for purely political reasons. McCain believes (and rightfully so!) that he needs someone to help him win over the hearts and minds of at least some true conservatives. But McCain didn't sit under Hagee's preaching for 20 years. Nor was this nutjob McCain's spiritual mentor for two decades. And Hagee's church wasn't McCain's church. Therefore, it's no wonder at all that no one thought McCain shared Hagee's delusions.

Could McCain have sought a better endorsement? You bet! But McCain is as clueless as they come and, even more importantly, as morally bankrupt and as unfit for high office as his two opponents. What else is new?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Box,
Does that mean you won't be voting?

As of this moment, only the Good Lord above knows the answer to your question.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I wonder if Frank Rich is going to write about Hamas endorsing Obama?
And could Frank Rich have a BIGGER photo of himself on that article?

And just think, PA: You made me take down that Osama bin Laden Lovs Libs avatar. I never really understood why since there was soooo much truth in it. :)

Boxcar

[The Judge]

Obama denounced his mentor and pastor , McCain in looking for more support from people like Hagee. I can assume from your arguements he would accept the right Rev. Wrights support because after all he didn't sit in Wrights church for 20 years and Rev. Wright cetainly hasn't said anything more wrong then any of the other T.V preachers you all are sticking up for.

[Lefty]

Yeah, judge, after TWENTY YEARS and then only after it became politically expediant to do so.

[The Judge]

We get the point NOW what about McCain? How lame "he" didn't listen for twenty years so he gets a pass.

[Lefty]

M'Cain quickly said he didn't agree with Hagee. Obama listened for Twenty Years. Said Wright was his friend and mentor. Now he says he didn't hear a thing. He also says guess he really didn't know the man. Goes to judgement and veracity.
But all that being said, that's not why i couldn't vote for Obama.

[The Judge]

You mean thats all Mc Cain has to to do to make it alright, he doesn't have to repudiate the person that denerated the entire Catholic religion.Wow, how nice of you guys. Of course there is no double standard you all are being objective. Those people that didn't like Obama look for anything to justify their dislike. Rather then just say no matter what he says of does I'm not voting for him.

You look for justifications "he didn't put his hand over his heart, he didn't wear a flag pin, he denounce the Rev. too late (of course McCain looks for more support from the likes of Hagee and denounces no one)". You think people can't see thru this kind of talk and double standard?

[Lefty]

judge, incredible that you can't see the difference of a mentor of over 20 yra and a mere endorsement. Then Obama says he didn't know Wright saidthose things when he said them a lot over several sermons. There were newsletters and dvds. Obamaeither is a liar or a fool. Which is it? Anyway, even though you and a few others, this will make no diff, it will make a lot of diff with a lot of people.
Me, makes not much diff, as I have much better reasons not to vote for him.

[bigmack]

Those people that didn't like Obama look for anything to justify their dislike.
How much more bothersome can folk get then when they feebly attempt to crawl into the minds/hearts of others and point fingers. What is it about people of your persuasion that use such nonsense far more often than any other grouping?

What am I thinking now Karnack?........Wrong again.

Stick to the facts and leave the dime store psychology to Dr. Phil and his ilk.

[Tom]

Obama's timeline.....

1. Cat's out of the bag on the Rev
2. Spin it to the bad white people
3. Throw gamma under the bus, just in case
4. Hope it's over
5. It isn't.
6. NOW, throw the Rev under the bus.