In light of the mess, Calder has raised takeouts

[Cangamble]

The big news to specialty gamblers Monday was that Calder raised its takeout percentage on a few wagering options. The track will now take 27 percent out of Pick 3, 4 and 5 wagering (up 3 percentage points) and 21 percent from the Daily Double and Exacta bets (up 1 percentage point).
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/story/504523.html

Seriously, are the people who run Calder (Churchill Downs) insane ????????

[karlskorner]

Not only that they raised the admission price for the grandstand/clubhouse.
I guess they were overly impressed by the simulcasting crowd they drew away from GP.

[Tom]

Any track still charging admission is not worth going to.
I grudgingly pay the extortion money to get into Saratoga, but only because the Toga guys are there. If not for them, I would never set foot on the grounds.

[shanta]

Goodbye Calder! Goodbye Turf Paradise!

Hello Keeneland! Hello Hawthorne!

Etc.Etc

Very simple stuff.

[GaryG]

I will sure be sorry to see this Tampa meet end....it is the best for me. I usually play Calder and Monmouth during the summer, but what the hell. I am old enough to work just part time anyway. Wait, I am old enough to retire!

[john del riccio]

I will sure be sorry to see this Tampa meet end....it is the best for me. I usually play Calder and Monmouth during the summer, but what the hell. I am old enough to work just part time anyway. Wait, I am old enough to retire!

Gary,

You and me both. TAM was great for me. I must say though, the last 2 weeks were a little on the bizzare side but I sort of expected that and scaled down. it seems to happen at most race meets (ie becareful the last few weeks).

John

[bigchump]

Yesterday's first race pools:
First @ Philly 38K wps pool.
First @ Calder 7K wps pool.
Let the low pools at Calder teach them a lesson.
A takeout increase is not enough...
Whoever is to blame.....I just don't care.
I'm through with Calder.
If only we would stick together and boycott Calder and any other track that pulls stunts like this, how soon things would change.

rant over
bigchump

Edit:
A boycott is the act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with someone or some other organization as an expression of protest.

[1st time lasix]

Calder isn't hard to boycott anyway. Worst track in the country for a significant reduction of odds on a front running type that secures position by the first call. In my opinion they clearly accept money into their win pool after the gates open. probably into the exacta pool as well but it is not so easy to observe. :ThmbDown:

[prospector]

Not only that they raised the admission price for the grandstand/clubhouse.
I guess they were overly impressed by the simulcasting crowd they drew away from GP.

i can't get past the charging of admission to bet....or parking charges...
hoosier has valet parking for $3...are they nuts?
i can valet park at ceasars in vegas for a buck..

living in vegas for 10 years spoiled me..no admission, free parking, free program(drf) and free drinks..
its simple for me...want my money? treat me like you do.

[trying2win]

I just fired an email off to CALDER RACECOURSE and told them what I thought of them raising takeouts on certain types of bets: Here is the email I sent:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

~"The REAL BOSS is the customer. They pay for your salary and everything you own. If you don't please him or her, they will take their business elsewhere."
--Earl Nightingale

Hello:

I just read the MIAMI HERALD article about CALDER RACECOURSE raising the takeouts on PICK 3, 4, 5 bets, and the EXACTA AND DAILY DOUBLE bets. This seems like insanity to me. This article has already been posted at some horse racing discussion group sites and your racetrack is already being vilified by many bettors for this action.
Do you think most of us bettors are stupid? Do you think most of us bettors are degenerates as well, and will bet any track regardless of the amount of the takeouts?.....WRONG! Mark my words...this action of raising of takeouts will backfire on your racetrack big time, and I predict a big drop in parimutuel handle. I for one, because of the raising of takeouts, WILL NOT BE BETTING AT CALDER. Before I go, just remember the words of the mother of FORREST GUMP (from the movie)..."STUPID IS...AS STUPID DOES!"

Thank you,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay....who else at this PACE ADVANTAGE site is going to not just TALK THE TALK, but WALK THE TALK and send off an email to CALDER RACECOURSE and tell them what you think of them raising takeouts? We all read about the 'POWER OF RACETRACK MANAGEMENT and the 'POWER OF HORSEMEN". Don't you think it's time to show the 'POWER OF HORSE PLAYERS" and say something on this issue of raising takeouts, by speaking out with your words and your wallets?

Time to stop making excuses like "sending one email won't make a difference"....NONSENSE! Just think what a whole bunch of bettors sending their opinions to CALDER RACECOURSE could possibly do? Just might get the CALDER executives' attention if enough bettors complain.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now....here's the link to the contact page at CALDER RACECOURSE :

http://www.calderracecourse.com/about/contact_us.html


~"Persons of mediocre accomplishments are quick to explain why they
HAVEN'T, why they DON'T, why they CAN'T and why they AREN'T."

--David J. Schwartz Ph.D. (by the way, this is not DAVE SCHWARTZ of HORSESTREET HANDICAPPING SOFTWARE fame)

[csmith]

I just e-mailed them stating my dissatisfaction for the takeout

[jma]

Yesterday's first race pools:
First @ Philly 38K wps pool.
First @ Calder 7K wps pool.
Let the low pools at Calder teach them a lesson.
A takeout increase is not enough...
Whoever is to blame.....I just don't care.
I'm through with Calder.
If only we would stick together and boycott Calder and any other track that pulls stunts like this, how soon things would change.

rant over
bigchump

Edit:
A boycott is the act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with someone or some other organization as an expression of protest.

Well, the pools were low because no one in the country could bet on the simulcasts. That's not exactly shocking, is it, when 90% of the money comes from off track?

[Cangamble]

Just got this email from Churchill Downs (how I got on their mailing list is a mystery to me)





FLORIDA HORSEMEN’S REFUSAL TO SEND CALDER SIGNAL OUT OF STATE FORCES 30-PERCENT PURSE CUT AT TRACK EFFECTIVE APRIL 27

MIAMI GARDENS, Fla. (April 22, 2008) – Calder Race Course today announced that due to the Florida Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association’s refusal to approve the distribution of Calder races to out-of-state wagering outlets, including advance-deposit wagering (“ADW”) companies, the racetrack has been forced to cut purses by 30 percent, effective Sunday, April 27. The purse reductions will affect a variety of race conditions, including stakes races.

“The Florida horsemen’s refusal to allow out-of-state wagering on Calder’s races has left us with no option but to cut purses now in order to offset the amount of handle both Florida horsemen and Calder will lose every day that Florida horsemen refuse to send Calder’s signal out of state,” said Steve Sexton, executive vice president of Churchill Downs Incorporated, Calder’s parent company. “Florida horsemen have chosen to single out and penalize Calder, as well as customers around the country who enjoy wagering on Calder’s races. We find that hard to understand when TrackNet Media Group, which negotiates simulcast sales for both Churchill Downs- and Magna-owned racetracks, has nearly doubled the ADW host fee rate paid to horsemen in Florida compared to last year.”

Currently, the only wagering outlets permitted to accept wagers on Calder races are simulcast outlets within the state of Florida and New York Off-Track Betting (“NYOTB”) facilities. On April 21, Florida horsemen gave their consent to allow NYOTB to accept wagers on Calder races. The Isle Casino & Racing at Pompano Park, a casino and harness racetrack in Pompano Beach, Fla., is not receiving Calder’s signal because no cross-simulcasting agreement exists between Calder and that facility.

Sexton said the purse cut would not affect the first-ever Calder Turf Million, scheduled for Saturday, April 26. “Several stables have already shipped in horses to compete in Saturday’s Turf Million, and we don’t want to inconvenience those horsemen by reducing purses for Saturday’s card so close to the event,” Sexton noted. “We hope for the sake of our customers that Florida horsemen will revisit their position on this matter.”

Calder Race Course, located on South Florida’s Miami-Dade / Broward county line, offers Thoroughbred horse racing during two consecutive meets and year-round simulcasting. The track is home of the Summit of Speed, Juvenile Showcase, Festival of the Sun, Florida Million and Grand Slam series of events. A wholly owned property of Churchill Downs Incorporated (NASDAQ Global Select Market: CHDN), Calder also operates the Tropical Meet. In 2008, the Calder Meet runs from April 21 through Oct. 19 and the Tropical Meet runs from Oct. 20 through Jan. 2, 2009. Information about Calder Race Course can be found on the Internet at www.calderracecourse.com (http://www.calderracecourse.com/).

[rrbauer]

We (the horseplayers) are holding the remedy to all of this nonsense: Our pocketbooks. Lock 'em up! Arrogance is the only explanation for this latest move by Calder. We need to teach these people that 27% of nothing' is nothin'! As you know, I've been harping on this takeout issue for a long time and a lot of people are slow to embrace the idea of just shutting down until the dust settles. I hope the stupidity of the industry and their total indifference to their customers is sinking in. The only thing they want from us is our money....and, from my perspective, they ain't getting it!!

[Imriledup]

Don't. Bet. Calder.


Its that simple.

[karlskorner]

Direct your E-mail to Michele Blanco, she's head of marketing.

I sent her my thoughts, even though I don't play the exotics.

[sandspur]

Another e-mail sent........

[JustRalph]

I emailed

[Niko]

Calders out for me. I won't even bet them on their big days. It has to start somewhere and this is the perfect spot.

I'd love for McShell to give us some insights....

[yak merchant]

Yes genius. If you own a gas station, and have competition up and down your street, offering gas from $3.50 a gallon to $5.00 a gallon. It makes perfect business sense to raise the price of your gas from say.....$24.00 a gallon to $27.00 a gallon; so you'll stop losing money. It makes me want to ...

[Burls]

Goodbye Calder! Goodbye Turf Paradise!

Hello Keeneland! Hello Hawthorne!

Etc.Etc

Very simple stuff.

I agree entirely.
If they want to be like that, I will exercise my prerogative to wager my hard-earned dollars elsewhere.

[DeanT]

Email sent as well.

[trying2win]

... I think that line should be deleted by PA. or other moderator.

T2W

(done...cj)

[trying2win]

To PA member horse players,

Thank you for taking a stand against Calder and sending those emails. :ThmbUp: That's the spirit! Let's send a deluge of emails to these Calder executives and tell them what you think of them raising takeouts, and what your betting intentions at Calder will be if they don't rescind those increases in takeout." Even the lurkers at this site, can help out horse player power by sending Calder executives an email too.

~"All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."

--Edmund Burke

[yak merchant]

Dean T. thinks your line is funny. I don't. Shame on you yak merchant for making dark humor of child abuse. :ThmbDown: I think that line should be deleted by PA. or other moderator.

T2W


Well mark my behavior down to being a product of society...

[cnollfan]

This may be a dumb question, but what good will boycotting Calder do when they aren't sending their signal out in the first place? They're already boycotting us.

[cj]

I emailed them as well. As to why boycott, do you think the takeout will change once the signal mess gets straightened out? I'll wait and see, but I won't hold my breath.

As for all the comments I edited and deleted, PA can check them, but simply put they don't belong here on a horse racing board in my opinion. They also took a very good thread in a bad direction. If you want to discuss it further, take it to off topic.

[cnollfan]

OK, I e-mailed them too. Did not mention the signal snafu.

[Fredo515]

:mad: They have a lot of nerve raising the takeout like they did.
I hope they never get their signal out but if they ever do I won't be betting there until they takeout back down !

[Indulto]

... As for all the comments I edited and deleted, PA can check them, but simply put they don't belong here on a horse racing board in my opinion. They also took a very good thread in a bad direction. If you want to discuss it further, take it to off topic.cj,
By editing YM's "product of society" post, I think you've unjustifiably imposed your and T2W's personal preferences on the rest of us.

Fortunately I caught that post before you exercised your lack of discretion. IMO it contained the wit and insight that is notably lacking from most of T2W's posts, but you allowed that poster to dictate what others can read and enjoy.

I don't see posts deleted here that many posters would consider far less tasteful and certainly more hostile. As much as I generally respect the content of your posts, when you blow it you sure do it bigtime. :ThmbDown:

You've got to stop reading those books on how to become a Steward and learn to let the results stand. ;)

[karlskorner]

A more direct e-mail

blanco@calderracecourse.com

There are 6378 members on this board, I called in and only 3 dozen or so have e-mailed their complaint. Remember if it happens at CRC it can happen elsewhere. Take the time, it's your future.

[cj]

cj,
By editing YM's "product of society" post, I think you've unjustifiably imposed your and T2W's personal preferences on the rest of us.

Fortunately I caught that post before you exercised your lack of discretion. IMO it contained the wit and insight that is notably lacking from most of T2W's posts, but you allowed that poster to dictate what others can read and enjoy.

I don't see posts deleted here that many posters would consider far less tasteful and certainly more hostile. As much as I generally respect the content of your posts, when you blow it you sure do it bigtime. :ThmbDown:

You've got to stop reading those books on how to become a Steward and learn to let the results stand. ;)

I am amazed you consider the fact you were able to read the initial post to be a "fortunate" event. I don't read every post so I can't speak to all of them. I made a judgement call on this one. Personally, it didn't really bother me, but I thought it didn't belong here and could easily be seen as offensive. PA has the power to see the deleted posts and restore them if he likes. In the future, if you don't like my choices, it is probably just best to ask PA in private about it.

Your post is a cheap shot. I made the call I did in the interest of making the board better, nothing else. Posting your unsolicited opinion on a subject that has little or nothing to do with horse racing and even less to do with you certainly doesn't make this a better place. You could have continued the discussion in off topic as requested, but you chose not to do so. Thanks a bunch.

[GaryG]

There is more at stake here than Calder. Lone Star is blocked as well and Kentucky could be next. Also, the anticipated (by me at least) 100 day Presque Isle meet. I have a good friend in a management position at BRIS and he is not hopeful.

http://drf.com/news/article/93910.html

[cj's dad]

Any track still charging admission is not worth going to.
I grudgingly pay the extortion money to get into Saratoga, but only because the Toga guys are there. If not for them, I would never set foot on the grounds.


I"ll make the gate charge up to you this year by bringing up from Md. some Chocalate Juniors and a few bags of Crab Chips. Make sure you get there as soon as you can or they may disappear.:lol:

[Cangamble]

Woodbine and Fort Erie don't charge admission anymore. It has been like that for years. But when you have a triactor takeout of 28.3%, they know they will get the customer's last red cent regardless.

[Cangamble]

I just sent an email. I told her that this makes me feel like punching....:)
Ok, I didn't say that, but I hope I made sense to her.

[Indulto]

I am amazed you consider the fact you were able to read the initial post to be a "fortunate" event. I don't read every post so I can't speak to all of them. I made a judgement call on this one. Personally, it didn't really bother me, but I thought it didn't belong here and could easily be seen as offensive. PA has the power to see the deleted posts and restore them if he likes. In the future, if you don't like my choices, it is probably just best to ask PA in private about it.

Your post is a cheap shot. I made the call I did in the interest of making the board better, nothing else. Posting your unsolicited opinion on a subject that has little or nothing to do with horse racing and even less to do with you certainly doesn't make this a better place. You could have continued the discussion in off topic as requested, but you chose not to do so. Thanks a bunch.I find it strange that someone who puts a premium on results rather than intentions would consider my post a cheap shot.

THIS thread is the crime scene and referring to it elsewhere would result in a disconnect from the issue raised. Anytime someone's privilige to express themselves is arbitrarily aborted, it has EVERYTHING to do with me and others who value this community and its privileges.

This board enjoys the popularity it does because it generally is NOT moderated with a heavy hand. And posters generally get warned in advance unless it is a clear TOS violation

When one publicly inserts one's self on one side of an issue, one can't complain about being challenged publicly. If YM's post didn't bother you, personally, why did you let someone else's opinion guide your actions. By messing with another poster's content rather than advising him that further like content would be unacceptable, you also accepted the responsibilty to answer for your action publicly.

This isn't personal for me, and it shouldn't be for you, but as you're obviously capable of giving as good as you get, I'll give as I got. You're welcome a bunch. ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

I believe CJ asked (in reply #27) that if one wanted to discuss the matter further, to do so in off-topic, where it rightly belongs. A very reasonable request, in my opinion. Usually, when people don't honor reasonable requests such as that one, the only recourse is to delete any off-topic replies that continue to be submitted into the affected thread. If it was me who made that request, I would have simply deleted Indulto's follow-up....but everyone knows that CJ is a nicer guy than I would ever hope to be....

In closing, I would suggest that CJ's actions were quite appropriate, even given his statement that the deleted text did not personally offend him. CJ is a moderator, and acted upon the knowledge that the deleted text DID OFFEND a fellow board member. Now, given that this deleted text in question had nothing to do with horse racing, and was ultimately little more than a silly side note, I find it rather amusing that this much time and energy has been wasted arguing against its ultimate demise.

[yak merchant]

I believe CJ asked (in reply #27) that if one wanted to discuss the matter further, to do so in off-topic, where it rightly belongs. A very reasonable request, in my opinion. Usually, when people don't honor reasonable requests such as that one, the only recourse is to delete any off-topic replies that continue to be submitted into the affected thread. If it was me who made that request, I would have simply deleted Indulto's follow-up....but everyone knows that CJ is a nicer guy than I would ever hope to be....

In closing, I would suggest that CJ's actions were quite appropriate, even given his statement that the deleted text did not personally offend him. CJ is a moderator, and acted upon the knowledge that the deleted text DID OFFEND a fellow board member. Now, given that this deleted text in question had nothing to do with horse racing, and was ultimately little more than a silly side note, I find it rather amusing that this much time and energy has been wasted arguing against its ultimate demise.


I find it amusing also, and don't really care one way or another, and I'm sure this post will be long gone. However Mr. PA you walk a slippery slope. Removing a post because one person is offended? Holy-politically correct. In that case I'm thinking that since you called my side note silly. And silly can mean feeble minded, I'm offended that you make light of the mentally handicapped. I hope a more sensitive moderator removes your post.

[PaceAdvantage]

It wasn't simply because one person was offended. It was also because the comment itself wasn't worth keeping, so it was an easy call, one person or not.

Context is everything.

Now, any further talk about this in this thread will be removed. If you wish to discuss further, I'm available via private message, email and/or Off-Topic.

[Tom]

I"ll make the gate charge up to you this year by bringing up from Md. some Chocalate Juniors and a few bags of Crab Chips. Make sure you get there as soon as you can or they may disappear.:lol:

Chocolate Jrs?
I'm there July 3rd! :lol:


Now,if Calder ever decides they want my business, it will take a whole lot of Crab Chips. Unbelievable how short sighted and arrogant some tracks can be. I sincerely hope Calder is finacially wounded enough to hurt. We need less tracks anyway, so if they were to go under, that would be a good thing.
Amazing how good Tam is and how crappy Calder is.

[stuball]

Sent my e-mail with some strong comments to Calder
and I told them to say bye bye to me and my money...


Stuball :ThmbDown:

[takeout]

So Calder is using the old Hialeah business model, eh? Good luck with that.

[Houndog]

Although I play Calder rarely I have done as karlscorner suggested and sent an e-mail directly to the marketing director expressing my disappointment.

As another post stated if it happens at Calder it can happen at other race track venues.

[Houndog]

Well at least I got a quick polite response to my e-mail. Be sure to get your secret decoder ring. "Remember Kids Drink More Ovaltine" and take advantage of the Twin Spires Club. :jump:

Thank you for taking the time to write to us at Calder.



Due to all-around higher costs of doing business, Calder Race Course found it necessary to increase the take-out percentages this season on certain wagers (Pick 3, 4, 5). A minor increase was also applied to daily double and exacta wagers. At present, there is no increase on win, place or show wagers, nor trifectas, superfectas or Pick 6s.



We understand that a raise in prices is undesirable for customers of any product; however, with the rise of costs in the current economic climate, an increase of our take-out was deemed necessary. Please note that Calder had not raised its prices in many years.



We appreciate you being a customer and hope to continue the relationship. We also encourage you to take advantage of the Twin Spires Club, our player reward program where you earn points, prizes and privileges based on your level of play.



Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact us again.

[Cangamble]

I always thought that an increase in demand or a decrease in supply caused prices to increase.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Please note that Calder had not raised its prices in many years.

Is this a joke?

What does that mean? In 40 years takeout will be 60%?

[Cangamble]

Is this a joke?

What does that mean? In 40 years takeout will be 60%?
They must think that track takeout is like oil or something.

[Grits]

They must think that track takeout is like oil or something.

Good one CG! LOLOLOL

[InsideThePylons-MW]

They must think that track takeout is like oil or something.

Exactly like oil. Calder obviously can't wait for takeout to go to 105%.

[takeout]

Seriously, are the people who run Calder (Churchill Downs) insane ????????
I’d say yes and it looks like it’s not a new development. Their tris and supers were already at 27% which is ridiculous.

I see neither BRIS nor DRF have changed their takeout charts yet. You’d think at least BRIS would be on top of that, considering who their new owner is.

Doze it down and put up a shopping center. Maybe someone will know how to run that.

[1st time lasix]

I e-mailed them on your request voicing my displeasure. Have a good weekend.

[trying2win]

A more direct e-mail

blanco@calderracecourse.com

There are 6378 members on this board, I called in and only 3 dozen or so have e-mailed their complaint. Remember if it happens at CRC it can happen elsewhere. Take the time, it's your future.

Karl:

Very aptly said. :ThmbUp: Thank you.

T2W

~"Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand (http://216.93.167.235/quotation/apathy_is_the_glove_into_which_evil_slips_its/194974.html)”

--Bodie Thoene

[Kelso]

Email (decidedly impolitic) sent. The older I get, the less comfortably I suffer fools.

[Pcon04]

i sent 2

I told her i hope the go under!!

pc4

[Niko]

Nothing will change unless the handle or more importantly the profit changes. The only way to enact change through betting or the lack of betting...it doesn't matter what it said at this point-only what is done.

[pktruckdriver]

:eek: I feel so stupid for having bet on Calder for so long, I use to like the track, not any longer, this thread has taught me otherwise, great thread.


I now feel so small in this whole scheme of things called horse racing, my little bets mean nothing, my boycott may help, so count me in, it's the right thing to do, or so I think.

I too have emailed Calder to say I quit. No more Cal for me, until takeout decrease, there's enough other tracks, right.

Oh by the way what track have lower takeouts, for people like me who are beginners here, but trying to get up to speed quickly.


Patrick

[trying2win]

I'm surprised no one has created a 'BOYCOTT CALDER' or 'DON'T BET CALDER" avatar yet. I'd be willing to display either, if one was created.

~ “Have the courage to say no. Have the courage to face the truth. Do the right thing because it is right. These are the magic keys to living your life with integrity. (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/have_the_courage_to_say_no-have_the_courage_to/149913.html)”http://thinkexist.com/i/sq/as3.gif W. Clement Stone (http://thinkexist.com/quotes/w._clement_stone/)

[takeout]

I too have emailed Calder to say I quit. No more Cal for me, until takeout decrease, there's enough other tracks, right.
It depends on what bet at what track. Make a win bet at PHA or PEN and you’re paying roughly what you would at most other places. Their tris and supers, however, are the biggest rape jobs in the country. Calder is not the only place that needs a boycott.

[takeout]

Oh by the way what track have lower takeouts, for people like me who are beginners here, but trying to get up to speed quickly.
You can give this one a look see. It says it hasn’t been updated in over two years though.
http://horseracinginfo.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=trktkout&header=off

You can also look here:
http://drf.com/entries/entries_info.html

And here:
http://trackthieves.com/

None of them reflect the Calder changes yet.

[Cangamble]

:eek: I feel so stupid for having bet on Calder for so long, I use to like the track, not any longer, this thread has taught me otherwise, great thread.


I now feel so small in this whole scheme of things called horse racing, my little bets mean nothing, my boycott may help, so count me in, it's the right thing to do, or so I think.

I too have emailed Calder to say I quit. No more Cal for me, until takeout decrease, there's enough other tracks, right.

Oh by the way what track have lower takeouts, for people like me who are beginners here, but trying to get up to speed quickly.


Patrick
TAKEOUT RATES FOR THOROUGHBRED RACE TRACKS
Track WPS DD's P3/4/6Exacta Tris Supers Notes
ALB 0.190 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.250 0.250
AP 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
AQU 0.150 0.175 0.250* 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
ASD 0.190 0.251 0.271 0.251 0.295 0.295
BEL 0.150 0.175 0.250* 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
BEU 0.180 0.225 0.225 0.225 0.225 0.225
BM 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
CAFair 0.168 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
CBY 0.170 0.230 0.230 0.230 0.230 0.230
CD 0.160 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190
CNL 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
CRC 0.180 0.210 0.270 0.210 0.270 0.270
CT 0.173 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.250 0.250
DED 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
DEL 0.170 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250
DMR 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
ELP 0.175 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
EMD 0.161 0.221 0.221 0.221 0.221 0.221
EVD 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
FEX 0.169 0.262 0.262 0.262 0.282 0.262
FG 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
FL 0.180 0.200 0.250 0.200 0.250 0.250
FPX 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
GG 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
GP 0.150 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.250 0.250
HAW 0.150 0.175 0.230* 0.175 0.230 0.230 *Promo rate P4?
HOL 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
HOO 0.180 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
HOU 0.180 0.210 0.250* 0.210 0.210 0.250 *P3=12%
HST 0.170 0.238 0.268 0.238 0.268 0.268
IND 0.180 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
KEE 0.160 0.190 0.170 0.190 0.190 0.190
KDX 0.16 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190
LA 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
LAD 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
LRL 0.180 0.210 0.258* 0.210 0.258 0.258 *Promo rate P4?
LS 0.180 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
MED 0.170 0.190 0.250* 0.190 0.250 0.150 *P4=15%
MTH 0.170 0.190 0.250* 0.190 0.250 0.250 *P4=15%
MNR 0.173 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250
OP 0.170 0.210 0.210 0.210 0.210 0.210
PEN 0.170 0.200 0.280 0.220 0.310 0.310
PHA 0.170 0.200 0.260 0.200 0.300 0.300
PID 0.170 0.200 0.260 0.200 0.260 0.290
PIM 0.180 0.210 0.258* 0.210 0.258 0.258 *Promo rate P4?
PRM 0.170 0.200 0.230 0.200 0.230 0.200
RD 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
RET 0.180 0.120 0.210* 0.210 0.250 0.250 *P3=12%
RPX 0.180 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.200
RUI 0.168 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.210 0.250
SA 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
SAR 0.150 0.175 0.250* 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
SUF 0.190 0.260 0.260 0.260 0.260 0.260
SUN 0.190 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
SRP 0.190 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.250 0.250
TAM 0.170 0.200 0.200 0.215 0.215 0.215
TDN 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
TP 0.175 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
TUP 0.200 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
WO 0.170 0.205 0.263 0.205 0.283 0.263
YAV 0.200 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
AVE. 0.170 0.204 0.231 0.206 0.237 0.238
http://cangamble.blogspot.com/2008/03/track-takeouts.html

[pktruckdriver]

Hey great info, thank you both very much I now know.


And I know where to find it in the future too.

Some of these are pretty high too, my god.


Patrick

[Tom]

TAKEOUT RATES FOR THOROUGHBRED RACE TRACKS


Track WPS DD's P346 Exact Tris Super Notes
ALB 0.190 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.250 0.250
AP 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
AQU 0.150 0.175 0.250 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
ASD 0.190 0.251 0.271 0.251 0.295 0.295
BEL 0.150 0.175 0.250 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
BEU 0.180 0.225 0.225 0.225 0.225 0.225
BM 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
CAFair 0.168 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
CBY 0.170 0.230 0.230 0.230 0.230 0.230
CD 0.160 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190
CNL 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
CRC 0.180 0.210 0.270 0.210 0.270 0.270
CT 0.173 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.250 0.250
DED 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
DEL 0.170 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250
DMR 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
ELP 0.175 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
EMD 0.161 0.221 0.221 0.221 0.221 0.221
EVD 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
FEX 0.169 0.262 0.262 0.262 0.282 0.262
FG 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
FL 0.180 0.200 0.250 0.200 0.250 0.250
FPX 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
GG 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
GP 0.150 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.250 0.250
HAW 0.150 0.175 0.230 0.175 0.230 0.230 *Promo rate P4?
HOL 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
HOO 0.180 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
HOU 0.180 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.210 0.250 *P3=12%
HST 0.170 0.238 0.268 0.238 0.268 0.268
IND 0.180 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
KEE 0.160 0.190 0.170 0.190 0.190 0.190
KDX 0.16 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190
LA 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
LAD 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
LRL 0.180 0.210 0.258 0.210 0.258 0.258 *Promo rate P4?
LS 0.180 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
MED 0.170 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.150 *P4=15%
MTH 0.170 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250 *P4=15%
MNR 0.173 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250
OP 0.170 0.210 0.210 0.210 0.210 0.210
PEN 0.170 0.200 0.280 0.220 0.310 0.310
PHA 0.170 0.200 0.260 0.200 0.300 0.300
PID 0.170 0.200 0.260 0.200 0.260 0.290
PIM 0.180 0.210 0.258 0.210 0.258 0.258 *Promo rate P4?
PRM 0.170 0.200 0.230 0.200 0.230 0.200
RD 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
RET 0.180 0.120 0.210 0.210 0.250 0.250 *P3=12%
RPX 0.180 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.200
RUI 0.168 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.210 0.250
SA 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
SAR 0.150 0.175 0.250 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
SUF 0.190 0.260 0.260 0.260 0.260 0.260
SUN 0.190 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
SRP 0.190 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.250 0.250
TAM 0.170 0.200 0.200 0.215 0.215 0.215
TDN 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
TP 0.175 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
TUP 0.200 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
WO 0.170 0.205 0.263 0.205 0.283 0.263
YAV 0.200 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250



AVE. 0.170 0.204 0.231 0.206 0.237 0.238

[russowen77]

Great data. It is too bad I am clueless about Kee. Being an exacta player it turns out i need to know more about Sar for sure.

What is KDX.

Thanks again for that data.

[Indulto]

TAKEOUT RATES FOR THOROUGHBRED RACE TRACKS


Track WPS DD's P346 Exact Tris Super Notes
ALB 0.190 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.250 0.250
AP 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
AQU 0.150 0.175 0.250 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
ASD 0.190 0.251 0.271 0.251 0.295 0.295
BEL 0.150 0.175 0.250 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
BEU 0.180 0.225 0.225 0.225 0.225 0.225
BM 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
CAFair 0.168 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
CBY 0.170 0.230 0.230 0.230 0.230 0.230
CD 0.160 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190
CNL 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
CRC 0.180 0.210 0.270 0.210 0.270 0.270
CT 0.173 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.250 0.250
DED 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
DEL 0.170 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250
DMR 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
ELP 0.175 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
EMD 0.161 0.221 0.221 0.221 0.221 0.221
EVD 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
FEX 0.169 0.262 0.262 0.262 0.282 0.262
FG 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
FL 0.180 0.200 0.250 0.200 0.250 0.250
FPX 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
GG 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
GP 0.150 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.250 0.250
HAW 0.150 0.175 0.230 0.175 0.230 0.230 *Promo rate P4?
HOL 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
HOO 0.180 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
HOU 0.180 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.210 0.250 *P3=12%
HST 0.170 0.238 0.268 0.238 0.268 0.268
IND 0.180 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215 0.215
KEE 0.160 0.190 0.170 0.190 0.190 0.190
KDX 0.16 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190 0.190
LA 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
LAD 0.170 0.205 0.250 0.205 0.250 0.250
LRL 0.180 0.210 0.258 0.210 0.258 0.258 *Promo rate P4?
LS 0.180 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
MED 0.170 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.150 *P4=15%
MTH 0.170 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250 *P4=15%
MNR 0.173 0.190 0.250 0.190 0.250 0.250
OP 0.170 0.210 0.210 0.210 0.210 0.210
PEN 0.170 0.200 0.280 0.220 0.310 0.310
PHA 0.170 0.200 0.260 0.200 0.300 0.300
PID 0.170 0.200 0.260 0.200 0.260 0.290
PIM 0.180 0.210 0.258 0.210 0.258 0.258 *Promo rate P4?
PRM 0.170 0.200 0.230 0.200 0.230 0.200
RD 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
RET 0.180 0.120 0.210 0.210 0.250 0.250 *P3=12%
RPX 0.180 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.200 0.200
RUI 0.168 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.210 0.250
SA 0.154 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207 0.207
SAR 0.150 0.175 0.250 0.175 0.250 0.250 *P6=15% no c/o
SUF 0.190 0.260 0.260 0.260 0.260 0.260
SUN 0.190 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
SRP 0.190 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.250 0.250
TAM 0.170 0.200 0.200 0.215 0.215 0.215
TDN 0.180 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
TP 0.175 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220 0.220
TUP 0.200 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250
WO 0.170 0.205 0.263 0.205 0.283 0.263
YAV 0.200 0.210 0.250 0.210 0.250 0.250



AVE. 0.170 0.204 0.231 0.206 0.237 0.238


I noticed that KEE and CD are havens for exotic players. So why do SA, DMR, and HOL get the major P6 action? Especially over NY?

[1st time lasix]

good question there. it seems that the California players dive more into the multirace exotics....maybe it was as a result of the years of declining race fields out West??? New York, California and Kentucky seem to be a bit less onerous to the avid exotic players I also try to play any promotional pick fours with the significantly lower takes. Any idea if Ellis or Laural are going to do there thing again this year?

[cnollfan]

good question there. it seems that the California players dive more into the multirace exotics....maybe it was as a result of the years of declining race fields out West??? New York, California and Kentucky seem to be a bit less onerous to the avid exotic players I also try to play any promotional pick fours with the significantly lower takes. Any idea if Ellis or Laural are going to do there thing again this year?

I think California players were primed for the Pick 6 to begin with because of their proximity to Tijuana. The Pick 6 was invented at Agua Caliente years before when it was called the "5-10." In days when even an exacta was just an occasional exotic and big-city tracks didn't have trifectas, the 5-10 made quite a splash.