Santa Anita ADW handles up sharply

[trigger]

." "concluded its 2007-08 race meet with total handle down 7 percent from last year. This was largely due to the fact that eight live racing days were lost due to problems with the synthetic track. On an average daily basis, on-track handle was down 13 percent and SCOTWINC (Southern California Off-Track Wagering, Inc.) handle was down 9 percent.

The decline in all source wagering on Santa Anita races, as well as the SCOTWINC decreases, were offset by out-of-state handle, which was up 1 percent, and ADW (Account Deposit Wagering) handle, which was up 40 percent. On an average daily basis, all source wagering on Santa Anita races was up 2 percent.

For the first time, fans were allowed to bet on Santa Anita's races through all ADW providers and that in large part contributed to the significant increase in ADW handle over last year. This year there were 37 days on which ADW handle on Santa Anita races exceeded $1 million, compared to just six days in 2007. On two occasions this year, ADW handle exceeded the $2 million mark, something that had never been achieved before on live racing from Santa Anita.

"Our big days continue to be very successful, but our on-track business and that of our satellite partners declined considerably throughout the meet," Santa Anita President Ron Charles said. "Our average daily on-track attendance was down 5 percent from last year and SCOTWINC's attendance was down 24 percent. It was tough to generate momentum early in the meet and because ADW was up 40 percent, it was obvious that ADW was cannibalizing our on-track and SCOTWINC players, which contributed significantly to these declines.

"ADW will continue to be the fastest growing segment of our industry and we need to continue to make wagering easier and more accessible for our race fans. We also need to continue to try to get better distribution on cable and satellite television and to improve the quality of racing video on the internet."

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/news/article.cgi?id=11266

[JimG]

.

"ADW will continue to be the fastest growing segment of our industry and we need to continue to make wagering easier and more accessible for our race fans. We also need to continue to try to get better distribution on cable and satellite television and to improve the quality of racing video on the internet."

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/news/article.cgi?id=11266

Somebody who gets it. Maybe he should talk to Calder and Lone Star horsemen.

[NoCal Boy]

Santa Anita was open to all ADW's. It simply shows what can happen when TVG, Youbet, Twinspires and Xpressbet are in the same pools.


Now I see the KY horsemen want the same for the Oaks and Derby cards.

Very smart

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=44712&source=rss

[trying2win]

[QUOTE=NoCal Boy]Santa Anita was open to all ADW's. /QUOTE] :confused:

It wasn't open to PTC.


T2W

[trying2win]

That was an interesting BLOODHORSE article about horsemen wanting all ADWS to be able to carry the programs of the KENTUCKY OAKS and KENTUCKY DERBY this year. I have a feeling PTC would love the possibility of being able to provide betting for its customers on these two races:jump:.


T2W

[NoCal Boy]

Question for PTC on California. It is my understanding that ADW's in California get around 4.5-5% for a wager, of which they have to pay TVG or HRTV a few percent based on track TV coverage. This leaves a yield of 2-3%. How can PTC rebate effectively in CA if the margins are so thin on the ADW side?

Is this the reason the CHRB and TOC has not licensed a rebate shop inside of CA? To my knowledge, CA residents can not legally sign up for any ADW other than TVG, Youbet, Twinspires and XpressBet.

[Indulto]

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/editorial/news/article.cgi?id=11266
From the article:... "Our big days continue to be very successful, but our on-track business and that of our satellite partners declined considerably throughout the meet," Santa Anita President Ron Charles said. "Our average daily on-track attendance was down 5 percent from last year and SCOTWINC's attendance was down 24 percent. It was tough to generate momentum early in the meet and because ADW was up 40 percent, it was obvious that ADW was cannibalizing our on-track and SCOTWINC players, which contributed significantly to these declines. ...Not surprising to hear this from the man taken for a ride by the Cushion track people.
a) They still got 50K+ attendance on the day non-dedicated players and racing fans care about.
b) Gas was over $3.40/gal for most of the meet.
c) The Stock Market has been down since Jan.
d) The Thu.-Mon. format may not have been as popular or prevented playing other tracks from SA on Mon.
e) Some might have considered the re-synthesized synthetic surface even more unpredictable than unrecycled cushion (re-polly want a re-cracker?).
f) Some might have considered two and three 6-1/2 f races daily on the turf too tough to tolerate.
g) Santa Anita's drainage fiasco, MECs liquidity problems, DragNet's dampening effects, and Frank's Fool Fuel, may all have finally flooded the Magna Magnate's flagship.

[startngate]

Now I see the KY horsemen want the same for the Oaks and Derby cards.

Very smart

Sort of ... but reading the story a little bit closer ....
“Kentucky HBPA has instructed the THG to carve out Derby and Oaks days and offer a licensing agreement to all national account wagering companies for those two racing programs. And Kentucky HBPA will authorize Churchill Downs to sell the Derby and Oaks cards to every national account wagering company that accepts THG’s offer.”
Rick Hiles, president of the Kentucky Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association, said in the release that “horsemen will not use America’s most popular racing events as leverage to advance our business goals at the expense of the racing public.
While I agree that getting the signal out there for all ADW's is a good thing, there is a huge "but" in the horsemen's position, since it's conditioned upon if the ADW's agree to their deal ... so how is this NOT leveraging the Derby and Oaks at the expense of the racing public?

Now if the THG said, "we'll agree to last year's percentages for Oaks and Derby Day IF all ADW's can have the signal, and we'll continue negotiating for the rest" then I might believe Mr. Hiles.

[NoCal Boy]

>>>Horsemen are proposing a special licensing agreement that would allow ADWs signals for the Oaks and Derby, “with resulting proceeds shared fairly among horsemen, racetracks, and account wagering providers,” according to an April 21 news release.<<<

Not sure the horsemen are demanding 1/3 here. The article states that revenues be shared "fairly" (note the term "equally" was not used).

[trigger]

Santa Anita was open to all ADW's. It simply shows what can happen when TVG, Youbet, Twinspires and Xpressbet are in the same pools.


Now I see the KY horsemen want the same for the Oaks and Derby cards.

Very smart

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=44712&source=rss

So, I guess the Ohio Horsemen (non-tracknet Tracks) are "smart" also? It appears that this THG movement is spreading and is not specifically aimed at tracknet.
Still no mention of the most important participant in this industry....the horse players....still hoping for a 1/4, 1/4, 1/4 , 1/4(THE HORSEPLAYERS!!!!) split.

[ezrabrooks]

So, I guess the Ohio Horsemen (non-tracknet Tracks) are "smart" also? It appears that this THG movement is spreading and is not specifically aimed at tracknet.
Still no mention of the most important participant in this industry....the horse players....still hoping for a 1/4, 1/4, 1/4 , 1/4(THE HORSEPLAYERS!!!!) split.

Trigger...under your proposal, how is the 1/4th interest going to get back to the players?

[JustRalph]

just a question. Is the scotwincs they are referring to actually the "watch and wager" outlets throughout california?

[bigmack]

just a question. Is the scotwincs they are referring to actually the "watch and wager" outlets throughout california?
SCOTWINCS is for Southern Cal and NCOTWINC is Northern Cal. They are a quasi-governmental organization of racing associations that doles out racing signals for a fee. Thus, local casinos and the like go through them.

[trying2win]

That was an interesting BLOODHORSE article about horsemen wanting all ADWS to be able to carry the programs of the KENTUCKY OAKS and KENTUCKY DERBY this year. I have a feeling PTC would love the possibility of being able to provide betting for its customers on these two races:jump:.


T2W

Oops! I noticed I made a typo in this earlier post above. The last sentence of the post should have read:

"I have a feeling PTC would love the possibility of being able to provide betting for its customers on these two cards.:jump:."

------------------------------------------------------------------
~"The best negotiators know that negotiation is a collaboration, not a confrontation."

--John Patrick Dolan

[trigger]

Trigger...under your proposal, how is the 1/4th interest going to get back to the players?

One way is that each ADW would receive 1/2 of the takeout with the legal obligation (i.e. part of the agreement with the horsemen/track) that each ADW bettor would receive a rebate equal to 1/4 of the takeout on each applicable bet.
So, under such an agreement, if total takeout is 20%, the ADW would receive 10% and turn over 5% to the horseplayer( with the horsemen and track splitting the other 10%)........i.e.; 1/4 each.

[ezrabrooks]

One way is that each ADW would receive 1/2 of the takeout with the legal obligation (i.e. part of the agreement with the horsemen/track) that each ADW bettor would receive a rebate equal to 1/4 of the takeout on each applicable bet.
So, under such an agreement, if total takeout is 20%, the ADW would receive 10% and turn over 5% to the horseplayer( with the horsemen and track splitting the other 10%)........i.e.; 1/4 each.

Trigger, I see where you are going, and your plan would lower take out, but, how are the track and horseman going to enter into a contract that specifically creates two classes of betters (ADW and on track)?

[Kelso]

Trigger, I see where you are going, and your plan would lower take out, but, how are the track and horseman going to enter into a contract that specifically creates two classes of betters (ADW and on track)?


I think Trigger's suggestion effectively leaves the track in the position of an ADW for track patrons; i.e., the tracks would have the opportunity to provide a rebate of their own by lowering the on-track takeout by 25% ... in order to show their sincere appreciation for, and to the direct benefit of, their loyal customers.

(Now how many tracks, do you expect, would enthusiastically seize such a logical and long-overdue opportunity?)

[thruncy]

TVG is probably the reason for the large increase in Santa Anita's account wagering handle. Their technology is far superior to Youbet and Twin Spires. Robert Evans's ignorance of the logistical convenience of account wagering with TVG is typical of how out of touch important, misguided industry leaders
are and have been. Until they realize they're dealing with gamblers they will continue to run their drunken racetrack circus for which in their infinite arrogance they are now recruiting "party officers."

[JustRalph]

TVG is probably the reason for the large increase in Santa Anita's account wagering handle. Their technology is far superior to Youbet and Twin Spires. Robert Evans's ignorance of the logistical convenience of account wagering with TVG is typical of how out of touch important, misguided industry leaders
are and have been. Until they realize they're dealing with gamblers they will continue to run their drunken racetrack circus for which in their infinite arrogance they are now recruiting "party officers."

I haven't had a TVG account for years now, but can you tell me how they are "technologically superior" ?? This I gotta hear.

[Hosshead]

Does TVG still make you pay (I don't care how much or little)..to bet? :ThmbDown:

[trigger]

Trigger, I see where you are going, and your plan would lower take out, but, how are the track and horseman going to enter into a contract that specifically creates two classes of betters (ADW and on track)?

In effect, many of the tracks/horsemen have already created two classes of bettors by allowing rebate shops to participate in their pools.

[ezrabrooks]

In effect, many of the tracks/horsemen have already created two classes of bettors by allowing rebate shops to participate in their pools.

Yep, you are correct...but the availability of those rebates are created by the ADWs, not through a specific contractional arrangement among the parties. Don't get me wrong, not disagreeing with your idea of the bottom line being lowering take out any where possible, but feel it never would pass muster.

[horses721]

TVG is probably the reason for the large increase in Santa Anita's account wagering handle. Their technology is far superior to Youbet and Twin Spires. Robert Evans's ignorance of the logistical convenience of account wagering with TVG is typical of how out of touch important, misguided industry leaders
are and have been. Until they realize they're dealing with gamblers they will continue to run their drunken racetrack circus for which in their infinite arrogance they are now recruiting "party officers."

I'd also like to know more about their superior technology leading to the increase in handle. Also, I'm not sure they could do much to increase the handle since they can only take wagers from 12 states.

[thruncy]

:jump:Suggest U try out for Derby party officer:jump:

[thruncy]

Minimum $2500 a month for free bets, otherwise 25 cents per wager. Check out party officer at the Derby.

[Sailwolf]

Minimum $2500 a month for free bets, otherwise 25 cents per wager. Check out party officer at the Derby.

Youbet.com only 250 per month for free bets


I have both. Youbet especially now is better.

[BombsAway Bob]

Minimum $2500 a month for free bets, otherwise 25 cents per wager. Check out party officer at the Derby.
TVG ~.25 cents/bet for your first 79 & 4/5's wagers/month($19.95max).
No Fees, Free Streaming Video & Race Replays first 3 months.
$2,500mo. gets the $19.95 re-deposited into your account every month
$600mo. in bets gets free multi-track streaming video.(N/A@twinspires (N/A@twinspires))
$200mo. in bets gets free PP's on tracks you wager on.
(Myself? 40 months as TVG member,paid fees one month)That's the fact, Jack! :cool:

[thruncy]

I think Trigger's suggestion effectively leaves the track in the position of an ADW for track patrons; i.e., the tracks would have the opportunity to provide a rebate of their own by lowering the on-track takeout by 25% ... in order to show their sincere appreciation for, and to the direct benefit of, their loyal customers.HAW was offering incentives to those who bet at the track on their live races.

(Now how many tracks, do you expect, would enthusiastically seize such a logical and long-overdue opportunity?)HAW was offering some kind of incentive to those who bet their live racing.