Why wont McCain support our vets ?

[ljb]

Robert Lopez served 8 years in our military, fighting in Iraq as a tank commander. He was told he'd get his whole education bill paid for when he got out of the service, but like so many others, Mr. Lopez has faced the bleak reality of a government that has turned its back on its veterans.

That is why Senators Jim Webb and Chuck Hagel proposed the new GI Bill, which would bring back WWII-style standards of providing vets with full tuition, room and board. And that is why 51 senators have signed on, including 9 Republicans like John Warner, giving this GI Bill tremendous bipartisan support.

But it isn't enough. Faced with unprecedented filibusters, the only way to ensure Senate passage of the GI Bill is to get 60 co-sponsors. So far, John McCain has refused. The same McCain who insists he supports our troops. The same McCain who is voting lockstep with the Bush administration (who have also resisted this bill).

[Tom]

Before I accept your premise, is that ALL the bill does, or, as is typical, is it laden with other pork projects and things not acceptble at all?

Do you have a link to the complete transcript of of it? Have you read it all and understand everything it will do/not do?

I would be interested in knowing all the facts. Many bills are not what they appear to be.

[ljb]

Here is a link. I have not read it all yet but with a cursory glance appears to be clean.
http://naus.org/news/news_veterans.html

[delayjf]

He was told he'd get his whole education bill paid for when he got out of the service, but like so many others, Mr. Lopez has faced the bleak reality of a government that has turned its back on its veterans.
I have a hard time believing that. I've sat through many GI Bill presentation and they were always clear about what the benefits were.

Maybe Isbets will comment.

[ljb]

So in spite of your disbelief of what he was told. What do you think about McCain's refusal to support the bill ?

[riskman]

The link LBJ provided said this:

"The benefits amount received would be tied to length of service, requiring at least 3 years of active service before eligibility for the maximum benefit level."
It appears the benefit increase would apply to all military wether or not you served in a "war zone" ie, Afghan., Iraq or other Mideast country in support of the Iraq War. The question is should all military be eligible or should it be limited to those who served in a "war zone". As an example, after boot camp I was stationed in Hawaii for three years and decided not to re-enlist, I would get the same benefit as one who served in Iraq/Afghan. Some may just join hoping to get the benefit and then opt out. They(military or others) might be worried about retention. Just a thought.

[delayjf]

Given the above description - if the DOD covered full tuition books and boarding, that would amount to @ 60-120 k for four years depending on the school one attends. That would be one hell of a bill when you consider the idea that someone could sign up for three years, serve all their duty in Hawaii or S. California, never deploy, leave service and receive the benefit. Compared to someone else who spends two years of his enlistment in Iraq or Afghanistan. If that is McCain’s criticism, then I agree.

Here's my idea.
Any school receiving Federal funds would be mandated to provide free tuition, books, and lodging in their dorms at no cost charged to the federal government or the Student. The classes are at a fixed cost, the books could be returned after the class is over so the only loss would be room and board. Maybe the Fed and the States could go halfs.

[ljb]

You really have to read the whole article. Cutting a segment does not do it justice. I doubt it if there are very many current active duty troops that have spent 3 years in Hawaii or So.Cal. You folks can split hairs on this any way you want but it boils down to McCain not supporting the troops when many others including Republicans do.

[ddog]

it's at least within the realm of possibility that the GIBill funding was the key to the post war boom in this country.

If we are going to spend money on AnYTHING to excess , it should be that.

The rising tide of education DOES without a doubt lift ALL boats.

There is no reason not to throw money at that , if we must throw money at something.

[ddog]

Given the above description - if the DOD covered full tuition books and boarding, that would amount to @ 60-120 k for four years depending on the school one attends. That would be one hell of a bill when you consider the idea that someone could sign up for three years, serve all their duty in Hawaii or S. California, never deploy, leave service and receive the benefit. Compared to someone else who spends two years of his enlistment in Iraq or Afghanistan. If that is McCain’s criticism, then I agree.

Here's my idea.
Any school receiving Federal funds would be mandated to provide free tuition, books, and lodging in their dorms at no cost charged to the federal government or the Student. The classes are at a fixed cost, the books could be returned after the class is over so the only loss would be room and board. Maybe the Fed and the States could go halfs.

1. there is never any "free" tuition or anything else.
if it's free for some then the costs will go up for others.
Not right to do that.

2. as to the theater of service... that is easily solved, there would be a sliding scale of beneifts based on time and location, just like combat pay,etc.
no problem.

the Gi should get ed vouchers to use or tax credits, something along those lines.

[wonatthewire1]

Given the above description - if the DOD covered full tuition books and boarding, that would amount to @ 60-120 k for four years depending on the school one attends. That would be one hell of a bill when you consider the idea that someone could sign up for three years, serve all their duty in Hawaii or S. California, never deploy, leave service and receive the benefit. Compared to someone else who spends two years of his enlistment in Iraq or Afghanistan. If that is McCain’s criticism, then I agree.

Here's my idea.
Any school receiving Federal funds would be mandated to provide free tuition, books, and lodging in their dorms at no cost charged to the federal government or the Student. The classes are at a fixed cost, the books could be returned after the class is over so the only loss would be room and board. Maybe the Fed and the States could go halfs.

Good one - here is another - how about free/reduced cost online schooling - University of Maryland already has a lot of military enrolled this way - and the classes are not that expensive to run (can be expensive to go to though!)

Therefore, you save on the room/board part and the person can go full time, part time, work in their area, etc...

[riskman]

You really have to read the whole article. Cutting a segment does not do it justice. I doubt it if there are very many current active duty troops that have spent 3 years in Hawaii or So.Cal. You folks can split hairs on this any way you want but it boils down to McCain not supporting the troops when many others including Republicans do.

Since you are the one who put up the post why don't you take responsibilty and find out why McCain is opposed to the benefit increase. It appears that you are grasping for an issue that infers McCain does not support the troops. What a load of crap.

[riskman]

it's at least within the realm of possibility that the GIBill funding was the key to the post war boom in this country.

If we are going to spend money on AnYTHING to excess , it should be that.

The rising tide of education DOES without a doubt lift ALL boats.

There is no reason not to throw money at that , if we must throw money at something.

Yes to some extent I agree. I am a product of the GI Bill, having served in combat during the Vietnam war. I attended a work-study program( 4 hrs school/ 8hrs work) 12 months a year while married with three kids. It all paid off as I could never had done this without the VA's assistance. Housing allowance equal to E-5 ---? If you want it bad enough, you will find a way.

[prospector]

[/B]

Yes to some extent I agree. I am a product of the GI Bill, having served in combat during the Vietnam war. I attended a work-study program( 4 hrs school/ 8hrs work) 12 months a year while married with three kids. It all paid off as I could never had done this without the VA's assistance. Housing allowance equal to E-5 ---? If you want it bad enough, you will find a way.

ditto...i worked my way thru college after i left the Marines...the money allotted to me didn't cover the school i went to, so i worked..
as far as McCain, 7 years ago i found out i was eligible for benefits as a Vietnam vet for agent orange...i had a few problems..i lived in Arizona at the time..i called his office and his staff helped my problems go away...he does care about vets...i just wish he was conserative..

[PaceAdvantage]

i lived in Arizona at the time..i called his office and his staff helped my problems go away...he does care about vets...i just wish he was conserative..Wow, a living, breathing testament to how JOHN MCCAIN supports OUR VETS, in a thread entitled "Why won't McCain support our vets?"

Who woulda thunk it?

[ljb]

Since you are the one who put up the post why don't you take responsibilty and find out why McCain is opposed to the benefit increase. It appears that you are grasping for an issue that infers McCain does not support the troops. What a load of crap.
McCain refuses to support the bill. I would expect one of his supporters to explain why he does this. There is no grasp involved and no inference, he does not support educational benefits for our troops.

[ljb]

Wow, a living, breathing testament to how JOHN MCCAIN supports OUR VETS, in a thread entitled "Why won't McCain support our vets?"

Who woulda thunk it?
There is a vast difference between cutting through the red tape of government for a single constituent and supporting a bill that benefits all the troops.

[Tom]

Blamket statements like that one are not valid. You cannot say the he doesn't support education based on what you have presented so far.

Both sides do this slight of hand bull crap all the time.
A bill calls for: free milk for school kids, rasing taxes 15%, granting amnesty.
A senator refuses to vote for it and then you calim he is against school kids nutrition. BS.

You think we should be able to speak for him? Do you speak for OBama?
What other things in that bill might he be against? Your whole premise is invalid and smacks of political street magic. Befreo you ask that questino and make idiodic statments, I would say the burden in on YOU to prove your premise. You have not.

[ljb]

Tom,
There is no blanket statement. A bill has been introduced in the senate to provide educational benefits to our vets. McCain has refused to support it. Spin all you want but facts are facts.

[delayjf]

I doubt it if there are very many current active duty troops that have spent 3 years in Hawaii or So.Cal. You folks can split hairs on this any way you want but it boils down to McCain not supporting the troops when many others including Republicans do.
If you are assuming that the majority of personnel in our Armed forces have deployed to either Iraq or Afganistan - and you are flat wrong. Look at the Navy alone, other than the Seals - they have no ground forces (the Marine Corps excluded). Most of their enlisted personnel are on ships. There are military personnel who can and do spend their entire enlistments working on a base or in an HQ's etc.

1. there is never any "free" tuition or anything else.
To the degree that the servicemen's presence kicks a paying student out of class, I would agree. But I don't think the numbers were talking about here would have that affect. Agree, they could use a sliding scale.

LBJ,
I don't think you're going to be able to convince anyone who has served in the Military that a man who fought for his country, spent 5 years in a POW camp - doesn't care about those in Uniform today.

I think you'd have better luck trying to convince the same group that Hillary really did try to enlist in the Army - Seriously does anyone really believe that?? :lol: :lol:

[Tom]

You try to hard to spin old idea, ljb....you have nop clue what he opposes in the bill. You act is old and unless you fool those 3rd grade would-be-killers, no one here is aflling for it anymore. You need a new schtick.

[ljb]

You try to hard to spin old idea, ljb....you have nop clue what he opposes in the bill. You act is old and unless you fool those 3rd grade would-be-killers, no one here is aflling for it anymore. You need a new schtick.
I don't need to know why he opposes the bill to provide educational benefits to our vets. I just know he does. There are rumors that Republicans oppose all education spending for as Karl Rove said. "when they get educated, they vote Democrat".

[JustMissed]

YLTErvrLqXU

Rachel looks pretty good for a Lesbian.

JM

[JustMissed]

G3epBpwgzs8

Hey you guys, lay off McCain. The bill was only introduced a Year ago.

Jeez,

JM

[Tom]

I love it when trolls tag team. :lol:

[Lefty]

Prospector, thanks for your service.
M'Cain is 82% conservative. Best we're gonna get in this election. Let's go with it.

[ddog]

ditto...i worked my way thru college after i left the Marines...the money allotted to me didn't cover the school i went to, so i worked..
as far as McCain, 7 years ago i found out i was eligible for benefits as a Vietnam vet for agent orange...i had a few problems..i lived in Arizona at the time..i called his office and his staff helped my problems go away...he does care about vets...i just wish he was conserative..

I wish we could get more Marines in the gvt!
Only shot we have it seems to fix anything.

Glad you made it back.
I knew many and I am sure you did as well that were not as lucky.

[Lefty]

ddog, except the ones like John Murtha. Don't need more like him.