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Turfday
04-03-2008, 03:01 AM
ASIDE from YOURSELF !! Guys (or ladies) who you think have the right combination of good analysis, good reasoning and knowing how to bet?

Just curious if this has been brought up in the past. If not, now it is.

And pardon me if you're one of those that think it's impossible question to answer. I fully realize that many posters don't know one another on the board. Yet, I'm sure some do.

TimesTheyRAChangin
04-03-2008, 08:08 AM
tbreds-cj
harness-melman

shanta
04-03-2008, 08:27 AM
Gary G
Melman
John Del Riccio
Keilan
Cj
Dan G
46zz
Tom

ldiatone
04-03-2008, 08:55 AM
not to bad yourself mr. shanta and a vote for you.
ldiatone

ryesteve
04-03-2008, 09:21 AM
JeffP

and it's hard to argue with Hjack's P6 success (and near-success)

melman
04-03-2008, 09:32 AM
Geez thanks for the kind words guys, your checks are in the mail. :) Ok, Ok, Richie for you I'll send a money order. :)
From many times in the War Room I would say sjk for sure. Numerous times he posted (well before) the start of the race his exact play for that race with some very large rewards. I remember a $1,500+ exacta at Turfway. I"m positive that sjk proves that a good "home grown" program can do your bankroll a world of good.

On the public side of the ledger I would say the best results I have seen have been from Bob Pandolfo and Brad Thomas.

I'm not to proud to say I consider and steal :) from them on a regular basis.

Note---Pandolfo's picks for all Meadowlands harness races are available for FREE on the ustrotting.com web site. Thomas has for FREE suggested plays both win, pic3, exacta on the Meadowlands web site (thebigm.com) every Saturday for various t-bred tracks.

melman
04-03-2008, 09:46 AM
Wanted to add two names that I should not have forgotten to mention in my first post in this thread.

cj who I think has shared more info on this board than just about anyone.
Ian Myers of PTC---has done the horseplayer a HUGE service in starting up and running the BEST ADW with great customer service and features not found any where else. Plus of course REBATES that are the best in the business. I wish him much success and hope he is able to sign up many many more "high profile" t-bred tracks such as the plum KEE meet that he now has.

Note--If your an s-bred player check out PTC for SURE. Has all the harness tracks you need except for Woodbine/Mohawk, The Meadows, and Pompano Park. And with the rebate action I'm getting from the other harness tracks who needs those clowns anyway. :jump:

JimG
04-03-2008, 10:08 AM
In no particular order:

Melman
Shanta
CJ
Keilan
sjk
JeffP
BillW
rrbauer
DanG
njcurveball
the little guy
JoeG
Tom

Semipro
04-03-2008, 12:08 PM
Cj-figure specialistDanG astute observation skills among others Tom Mcshell horsemanship and overall knowledge

Imriledup
04-03-2008, 12:11 PM
In no particular order:

Melman
Shanta
CJ
Keilan
sjk
JeffP
BillW
rrbauer
DanG
njcurveball
the little guy
JoeG
Tom

Wow, 13 posters BETTER than moi?

Anyone have any winners for today or tomorrow at Santa Anita? I'd be very interested to piggyback all the winning players here!!:jump:

Bobzilla
04-03-2008, 12:14 PM
There are others, I'm sure, who would be on my list, but the first to come to mind would be:

Classhandicapper
Tejas Kidd
The Fat Man

Bobphilo
Boonman
CJ
DanG
Hajck Hillstom
Ian w/ PTC
John Del Riccio
Keilan
nobeyerspls
OTM AL
The Little Guy
Tom
46Zilzal

I enjoyed the way the Fat Man could really rip apart a turf event. Tejas Kidd is one of the best tournament players in the country. Siros wouldn't be the same without TLG, regardless of his irreverence for 4stardave. Too bad the majority of the Aq Inner rider colony didn't comprehend the URGENCY of Quality Rail Time as much as tlg does during this past inner track meet.

There are other great handicappers on this board who I've enjoyed reading over the last year but they just didn't come to mind right away.

chickenhead
04-03-2008, 12:17 PM
our fearless leader PA does some fine work.

(Mike, my paypal is the same as my email)

Bobzilla
04-03-2008, 12:19 PM
Oops, clearly should have Cratos on my list. One of the more scientific cappers I've read on this board.

rokitman
04-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Speaking of top handicappers, where has the magnificent Mr. K. Promos been lately?

DRIVEWAY
04-03-2008, 01:41 PM
ASIDE from YOURSELF !! Guys (or ladies) who you think have the right combination of good analysis, good reasoning and knowing how to bet?

Just curious if this has been brought up in the past. If not, now it is.

And pardon me if you're one of those that think it's impossible question to answer. I fully realize that many posters don't know one another on the board. Yet, I'm sure some do.

Why not have a Poll?

Zaf
04-03-2008, 01:51 PM
CJ
TLG
Keilan
rrbauer
DanG
Tom
Shanta
SamIam

Z

singunner
04-03-2008, 02:13 PM
Half the fun of the boards is finding out the answer to this exact question!

Since I don't see any mention yet, I have to mention Formula2002. Of course, it's difficult to tell on a forum, but he seems like he's got a lot of integrity and his responses seem to have a good bit of thought in them.

BombsAway Bob
04-03-2008, 02:18 PM
In no particular order:

Melman
Shanta
CJ
Keilan
sjk
JeffP
BillW
rrbauer
DanG
njcurveball
the little guy
JoeG
Tom
All Top-Notch..plus I'd have to add HaJck, PA,
& Los AL sharpies Smokin'Joe & JuanEpstein

Nets
04-03-2008, 02:29 PM
Gary G
Melman
John Del Riccio
Keilan
Cj
Dan G
46zz
Tom

And of course Shanta, The Fat Man, PA and NJ Curveball

Hajck Hillstrom
04-03-2008, 03:53 PM
Who you think have the right combination of good analysis, good reasoning and knowing how to bet?

And pardon me if you're one of those that think it's impossible question to answer.I honestly feel that I fall in the category that feels this is a question that is nearly impossible to answer as I find everyone's contribution to this forum enlightening, even when I totally disagree with it, making the collective contribution to this board far and away the best on the net. There are so many tremendous perspectives that any omission might be considered a disservice, so forgive me if your name fails to find my short-list, as it would surely appear on my complete respect list.

That being said, there are those, that when I see a post by them, will always read it. I am always appreciative of Dan G's insight and humor, along with Andy Grossman's (andicap). Lee T's. (Mudnturf) perspective will grab my attention, along with the likes of Vic Stauffer, Bob Selvin (Turfday), John Del Riccio, asH, cj, Kelso, PA, Norm, Rufas999, Robert Fischer, ryesteve, Bill Olmsted, GleninOhio, Greyfox, Shenanigans & BombsAwayBob Grant (who submitted the best April Fools Joke of the Day when he got Nancy Ury to announce on-air at TVG that the distaff races in the Breeder's Cup will be wearing pink saddleclothes).

I know that there are so many that I truly respect that I failed to mention, but these poster's perspectives seem to fit my eye the best.

Turfday
04-03-2008, 04:16 PM
Just when you think you know it all, you realize how little you know when you read and absorb some of the great handicapping takes that fill this board.

Without question, there are so many good posters with great information on this board that Woody Allen could do a movie, "Everything You Wanted to Know About Handicapping and Know Where to Find It." It would be about Pace Advantage. Can Mike act (lol)?

What really impresses me is that you can ask a question that you really are unsure about, and it could be an obscure subject (question) about handicapping, and you, yourself, aren't sure what kind of answer might be generated if any at all.

Then you come back to the board and unexpectedly find there are a half dozen great, reasonable answers from fellow handicappers who gladly share their wisdom and insight with others!

john del riccio
04-03-2008, 04:45 PM
No particlular order


Jotb
Dan
Jeff
Ian
CJ
Fats


no offense meant to anyone I left off.

John

PS Thanks to those who mentioned me, I do appreciate it.

the little guy
04-03-2008, 05:05 PM
no offense meant to anyone I left off.



I'm deeply offended. In fact, I'm composing an " I'm leaving " thread.

riskman
04-03-2008, 05:24 PM
There are a large number of individuals on this forum that are successful cappers. The one that has impressed me the most, that demonstrates attitude, decision making skills and money management is :

Dan G

He appears to have the attributes of a sucessful player and is a class act. Dan has the desire, and beleives capping is a worthy goal.

john del riccio
04-03-2008, 06:00 PM
I'm deeply offended. In fact, I'm composing an " I'm leaving " thread.

LOL.

asH
04-03-2008, 06:56 PM
I enjoy and have learned from all who post, this place is the sum total of all the parts, each as important as the next....with cj getting a little more pudding cause he created the place.

thanks to all for letting me post here

Zaf
04-03-2008, 06:58 PM
Its PA who created the place :)

Z

Tape Reader
04-03-2008, 07:00 PM
Dan G
If I miss religious services during the week, I read Dan G for inspiration. A real class act. And I do not know who the hell he is.

keilan
04-03-2008, 07:11 PM
Top 6 players
Cj -- personal favorite and good guy
Game Theory – great mind
Dave Shwartz – understands everything I don’t
Rich Bauer – sharp guy
TLG – NY attitude
Drugs – a friend with weed is a friend indeed – very bright

Guys that make me laugh
Tom – has given me more belly laughs than anyone
Justralph – all around good guy, top-shelf
Skate – He kills me
46 – unrelenting in is view of the world
Steve “Stat Man” King of the “one liners”

Most personable
Zaf – always sees the glass ½ full
Shanta – works hard and is a good dude
Andicap – Andy should write a book about players
Billw – nice person
Socalfan – salt of the earth

Guys that keep me coming back to this site
Inside theplyons – confident player
Derby Trail – always a good read
Freeneasy – takes me back 30 years
Garyg – underestimated
Bethorses – sports guy
Big Red – luvs Boston
Swetyejohn – knowledgeable
SMTW – passionate
rmania – good west coast player
jobt – good easy coast player
hdcper – works hard and flies under the radar
Storm Cadet – team player
JimG – the definition of persistence
DanG – Contributes
Dick Schmidt – proven right over time – cantankerous
Headhawg – likeable
Chickhead – could be a good player
OTM AL – Decent player
Robert Fischer – gentlemen
MV McKee – solid
Cangamble – fellow Canuck
Sjk – excellent player & person
Hammer – entertaining – sharp shooting son-of-a –gun
Ceejay – loves the game
Tee – good eye for the horses
JeffP – doesn’t answer emails
Robert99 – see things more Canadian than American
Suff – a man of contradictions, but aren’t we all

Guys that make it all possible
Mike – a huge thank-u

Caveat
To those fine players I haven’t taken the opportunity
to read or interact with & inadvertently missed, I apologize
for not acknowledging.

And to those I have I have constantly quarreled with
“kiss my ass” :cool:

098poi
04-03-2008, 07:25 PM
Top 6 players
Cj -- personal favorite and good guy
Game Theory – great mind
Dave Shwartz – understands everything I don’t:ThmbUp:
Rich Bauer – sharp guy
TLG – NY attitude
Drugs – a friend with weed is a friend indeed – very bright

asH
04-03-2008, 07:30 PM
more pudding for PA

Pace Cap'n
04-03-2008, 07:30 PM
Sal--the one whose picks I would be most likely to bet.

And just where is Freeneasy?

classhandicapper
04-03-2008, 09:23 PM
There are lots of people whose commentary I enjoy reading. Rather than listing everyone whose opinion I respect, I'll list the handful I learned a few things from that expanded my own understanding or that I believe are on a very high level of understanding on a broad range of handicapping areas I also tend to focus on. In alphabetical order.

CJ
DrugS
The Fat Man

IMO, the best comprehensive handicappers I can think of that don't post here are Steve Davidowitz and Steve Crist. I base that on my reading of their columns, commentary, and analysis of big races over the years.

I also think PA and Indulto deserve more credit than they are getting here. :ThmbUp:

Robert Fischer
04-03-2008, 10:03 PM
It is a very good online community. Really a tribute to PaceAdvantage.

Zaf
04-03-2008, 10:10 PM
It is a very good online community. Really a tribute to PaceAdvantage.

Agree, 1000 % , this is the best forum, always was, always will be ! PA is da bomb !

Z

PaceAdvantage
04-04-2008, 01:31 AM
I enjoy and have learned from all who post, this place is the sum total of all the parts, each as important as the next....with cj getting a little more pudding cause he created the place.

http://www.teehanlax.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/RodneyDangerfield_Album_no_respect.jpg

Indulto
04-04-2008, 03:54 AM
There are lots of people whose commentary I enjoy reading. Rather than listing everyone whose opinion I respect, I'll list the handful I learned a few things from that expanded my own understanding or that I believe are on a very high level of understanding on a broad range of handicapping areas I also tend to focus on. In alphabetical order.

CJ
DrugS
The Fat Man

IMO, the best comprehensive handicappers I can think of that don't post here are Steve Davidowitz and Steve Crist. I base that on my reading of their columns, commentary, and analysis of big races over the years.

I also think PA and Indulto deserve more credit than they are getting here. :ThmbUp:CH,
I think my public record in Bubbles contests has shown me for what I am -- a cross between a class-handicapped player and a class-playing handicapper ;), but this is a good time to mention twindouble, a real handicapping talent and source of insight for me just as you have been.

A lot of people impress me here -- and in fairness, I don't have any real basis for evaluating them -- but if impressions mean anything, the oft-dueling cj and tfm, and the lyrical B2 have all convinced me that they are beating the game.

toetoe
04-04-2008, 02:39 PM
Melman and I are a tag team. He got the sulky, while I got the shaft. :(

Capper Al
04-04-2008, 03:38 PM
Does this replace the Becoming a Winner thread? I have enjoyed reading most of the already listed members. But there are a lot more members that I have enjoyed also. The Internet is great for racing, but there's nothing like BSing with the guys in the clubhouse about racing. Forums are the close as we can get to that nowadays.

joeyspicks
04-04-2008, 03:40 PM
Interesting thread! Back when I had the time to post and read from this fine board I would say:

Best Handicappers:

RMania
Sal
Keilan


Reasons to return: (because I always learn from them)

Dick Schmidt
Dave Shwartz


thanks guys
Joe

asH
04-04-2008, 03:47 PM
ya need a name.. what do we call ya, Mr PACEADVANTAGE, or Mr. ADMINISTRATOR, THE ADMINISTRATOR its kinda like talkin to the eternal spirit in the sky...with music:D

john del riccio
04-04-2008, 04:06 PM
ya need a name.. what do we call ya, Mr PACEADVANTAGE, or Mr. ADMINISTRATOR, THE ADMINISTRATOR its kinda like talkin to the eternal

spirit in the sky...with music:D

MELLOW YELLOW !!!!!!!!!!

rrpic6
04-04-2008, 05:01 PM
The most amazing job of Handicapping I've seen here happened on 02/18/08. Whobet played a straight $2.00 Pick 6 at Santa Anita. He had 4 winners and 2 second place finishes!

RR

Light
04-04-2008, 05:48 PM
My best teacher has been my own mistakes. On the other hand,ToeToe makes so many mistakes, you can really learn alot just watching him.

rokitman
04-04-2008, 06:57 PM
My best teacher has been my own mistakes. On the other hand,ToeToe makes so many mistakes, you can really learn alot just watching him. :D :D :D

mannyberrios
04-04-2008, 07:39 PM
:jump: I think that all of you are the greatest here at P.A. Thank you all.

toetoe
04-04-2008, 07:43 PM
Key on Toetoe, you ... hear ... me ? :mad:

bigmack
04-04-2008, 08:03 PM
I've seen some awfully good handicappers struggle at making money at the game. It is, afterall, about making lettuce.

Toes, are you gonna stand for that from his Lightness?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/tt.gif

keilan
04-04-2008, 10:36 PM
I've seen some awfully good handicappers struggle at making money at the game. It is, afterall, about making lettuce.



http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/tt.gif


U can't make lettuce betting on the horses that are constantly out of the money or spreading too wide. Spending money without understanding the race dynamics's makes for a shitty salad.

There's only one way to make consistent money at this game -- learn how to handicap & money management.

asH
04-05-2008, 12:00 AM
PaceAdvantage a.k.a The ADMINISTRATOR is THE ARCHITECT from THE MATRIX!



Architect: Hello Neo.

Neo: Who are you?

Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I have been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question maybe the most pertinent you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent in the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden deciduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexcerably here?

Neo: You haven‘'t answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting, that was quicker then the others.

Neo: Others? (What others? How many? Answer me)

Architect: The Matrix is older then you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next. In which case this is the sixth version.

Neo: Then there are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely, as you are undoubtedly gathering the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

Neo: Choice, the problem is choice.

Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it, Based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated my failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another and intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo: The Oracle

Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo: This is about Zion

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo: Bullshit.

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it. The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix. Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo: You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar predication a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way your experience is far more specific, Vis a vie love.

Neo: Trinity

Architect: Apropo, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo: No

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors, the door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion, the door to your left leads back to the matrix to her and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know we you are going to do don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth, she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again. Architect: We won't.

ranchwest
04-07-2008, 11:16 AM
The most amazing job of Handicapping I've seen here happened on 02/18/08. Whobet played a straight $2.00 Pick 6 at Santa Anita. He had 4 winners and 2 second place finishes!

RR

I once played a straight $2 P6 at FG and hit 5 of 6. Consolation paid $12.30. That was the end of my desire to play a P6. :lol: Maybe I'll try it again SOMEDAY.

ranchwest
04-07-2008, 11:18 AM
asH,

The next time you get on one of these Matrix kicks, could it be on some other forum? :lol:

Tom Barrister
04-07-2008, 01:55 PM
My name wasn't mentioned. :mad:

Maybe if we had a "least respected" handicapper, I'd make that list.

I won't mention any names for "most respected", because I'm sure that almost everybody who posts here contributes to the knowledge and betterment of somebody else or several somebody elses.

toetoe
04-07-2008, 02:51 PM
Sir,

I just now have seen your kind post for the first time. :lol: My belated-by-three-days thanks. The implied message, that even a talentless and blind gerbil sometimes finds the ... well ... nut, is inspirational. Glad to have you, er, behind me.

headhawg
04-08-2008, 12:12 AM
Guys that keep me coming back to this site
Inside theplyons – confident player
Derby Trail – always a good read
Freeneasy – takes me back 30 years
Garyg – underestimated
Bethorses – sports guy
Big Red – luvs Boston
Swetyejohn – knowledgeable
SMTW – passionate
rmania – good west coast player
jobt – good easy coast player
hdcper – works hard and flies under the radar
Storm Cadet – team player
JimG – the definition of persistence
DanG – Contributes
Dick Schmidt – proven right over time – cantankerous

Headhawg – likeable

Chickhead – could be a good player
OTM AL – Decent player
Robert Fischer – gentlemen
MV McKee – solid
Cangamble – fellow Canuck
Sjk – excellent player & person
Hammer – entertaining – sharp shooting son-of-a –gun
Ceejay – loves the game
Tee – good eye for the horses
JeffP – doesn’t answer emails
Robert99 – see things more Canadian than American
Suff – a man of contradictions, but aren’t we all
Sounds a lot like I won the PA Miss Congeniality award. :D

As far as the most respected handicappers here that's a tough question, but I would be a way better handicapper if I knew half of what these people know:

CJ, keilan, Dave Schwartz, Tom, and Jeff P.

When Sal posts you simply must respect his picks. Solid. I've also been in the War Room with sjk and his plays are amazing.

A special mention must go to hdcper who is a great guy and handicapper in his own right. He has helped me plenty.

And my list cannot be complete without my extra special mention to the Buggy Master -- melman. He has bet and won on more $100 horses than anyone I know. I was lucky (and smart) enough to make some money on one of them in the WR. And recently he gift wrapped an exacta play for me that paid $109.80 but did I play it? Nooooo. :bang: He has really helped me make money on those chalky standardbreds. :)

Just don't get him started on mowing the neighbor's lawn...

andicap
04-08-2008, 07:30 AM
hmmm, looks like I've got to start posting some winners in the "Selection" section -- :D :D

I'll take Keilan's compliment -- and Keith, yes I must write my book.

Best players in my view (Others I don't mention might also be good, but these people have influenced and taught me the most, My apologies to those excellent handicappers not mentioned here. It's a personalized kind of thing. Also based on the volume of posts -- amount they contribute is important too. And others rarely share their handicapping philosophies. I'm sure TLG is a fine handicapper but he keeps his ideas -- besides liking Beyer figures -- close to his vest. I have no idea how he picks a horse or handicaps a race.)

CJ -- All his figures are great but the turf ones are real gold. An amazing bettor as well with incredible discipline to demand his price. Knows the value of low-priced overlays as well. And he's flexible, always willing to try new ideas offerd to him. Not dogmatic at all. The gold standard of the board. (And his brother Justin is no slouch either!)

Keilan -- knows more about energy than the head of Con Edison.
46Z -- Controversial, arrogant and meglamoniacal and I sure wish he would handicap more races AHEAD of time rather than "I told you so." But I believe he's a consistent winner and true Sartinite. Or the biggest con artist around. Either way he's always interesting.
Hajak Hillstrom -- Knew Doug from Prodigy days and he was one of the sharpest guys around then too.
Dick Schmidt -- Has all the qualities of a winner. Class.
Niko -- His recent posts have been excellent. Unique and unconventional way at looking at pace analysis really impressed me. Bought the book.
Dave Schwartz -- Don't always understand what he's getting at but you know it's one step beyond everyone else.
Drugs (or whatever he's calling himself these days) - also wish he would post more. Great insights. Deep thoughts.
Overlay -- really knows the game
Game Theory -- always has something interesting, innovative to say.
GaryG -- sharp handicapping mind.


A special mention to a professional who used to post here I believe but now is seen only on the Pace Figures board -- Jim Lehane, author of the "Calibration Handicapping" series, and one of the sharpest handicapping minds around. Deserves much more notoriety than writers and DRF figures like Quinn, Klein, Litfin, et al.

And a salute to a former teen-aged Prodigy mainstay who suddenly popped up in the results of the recent Handicapping World Series -- Darrell Lerner
Those who knew Darrell back then as an arrogant, opinionated, bull-headed Sheets player who refused to consider ideas pertaining the pace -- just cant imagine he's in his 30's now.

ryesteve
04-08-2008, 08:50 AM
Those who knew Darrell back then as an arrogant, opinionated, bull-headed Sheets player who refused to consider ideas pertaining the pace -- just cant imagine he's in his 30's now.
... but is he still arrogant, opinionated and bull-headed?? :D

the little guy
04-08-2008, 09:47 AM
I'm sure TLG is a fine handicapper but he keeps his ideas -- besides liking Beyer figures -- close to his vest. I have no idea how he picks a horse or handicaps a race.)



The Beyer figures are, at best, and pretty small part of my handicapping, and I am quite sure I have said that here more than once. But, whatever.

I keep my ideas close to the vest? I handicap 80% of the Saratoga cards in public, on TV, and over the internet. I did 19 handicapping shows for Youbet last year in which I talked about many specific races and also did a segment on trip handicapping ( that frankly predicted a great deal of future winners....not the least of which was predicting a big future for Cool Coal Man after he finished a troubled fourth in his debut ). I'm not sure how any of that could be construed as keeping my ideas close to the vest.

My thoughts are out there.....but maybe you need to do a little more work of your own if you want to hear them. No problem if you don't.....but then please try not to misrepresent the facts.

classhandicapper
04-08-2008, 10:16 AM
The Beyer figures are, at best, and pretty small part of my handicapping, and I am quite sure I have said that here more than once. But, whatever.

I keep my ideas close to the vest? I handicap 80% of the Saratoga cards in public, on TV, and over the internet. I did 19 handicapping shows for Youbet last year in which I talked about many specific races and also did a segment on trip handicapping ( that frankly predicted a great deal of future winners....not the least of which was predicting a big future for Cool Coal Man after he finished a troubled fourth in his debut ). I'm not sure how any of that could be construed as keeping my ideas close to the vest.

My thoughts are out there.....but maybe you need to do a little more work of your own if you want to hear them. No problem if you don't.....but then please try not to misrepresent the facts.

I think you are taking this a little too seriously. ;)

If you ask me, the only way to tell who the best handicappers are is by looking at how accurately their assessment of horses' chances matches the outcomes of races over the long term. Limited picks here or elsewhere don't indicate much. Neither do reputations etc....

On message boards like these, I suspect that writing skills, self promotion, reputation, and people whose styles match your own weigh more heavily in people's opinions than actual overall understanding and betting results.

Personally, I have no doubt you are a top notch handicapper because I've listened to your insights into horses and races that I have studied very carefully many times. It's obvious to me you have a deep "comprehensive" understanding of the important issues in races and are willing to share your thinking and insights etc....

(Steve Davidowitz and Steve Crist are still my favorite high profile comprehensive handicappers though) ;)

the little guy
04-08-2008, 10:22 AM
I think you are taking this a little too seriously. ;)




I hate reprinting entire posts ( yet another of my issues ) but I pretty much agree with the parts I left out. However.....I don't agree with what I reprinted. I'm not taking any of it seriously other than the suggestion that I keep my ideas " close to the vest. " I was just explaining why I thought Andicap's comment was unfair....that's all.

I take handicapping seriously.....and very little else.

andicap
04-08-2008, 10:57 AM
My apologies -- I was referring mainly to what is posted on the PA board as I rarely get a chance to listen in on the other venues. Even during the week we're in Saratoga, I'm famous for running late.

TLG's analysis is indeed out there for those who seek it and he is generous with his time in making public appearances in sharing his opinions on the sport, important stakes races and analyzing cards.

I was not implying anything about TLG's handicapping abilities, only what I see in hard-core handicapping discussions on PA. Like I said in my note, the list was based on my personal experiences here, not the actual abilities of anyone on the board.

andicap
04-08-2008, 11:02 AM
... but is he still arrogant, opinionated and bull-headed?? :D

Actually last time I saw Darrell was at Belmont Park in the mid to late 90s and he was with a stunning woman. I only met him in person a couple of times and for brief periods of time, but I got the idea that like many of us he was much different in "real life" than in cyberspace.

Light
04-08-2008, 03:10 PM
I'm sure TLG is a fine handicapper but he keeps his ideas

I think ALL handicappers who have something that works keep it to themselves or sell it for a fee. Frankly I have not learned anything new on this board.At least nothing I have yet to incorporate in my handicapping process. For newbies,this board is great but not for the majority hard core vets.For me,this board is 99% entertainment or info on whats happening in the world of horseracing. It would be great if all members here showed their hand,but that ain't going to happen and rightfully so.

Bruddah
04-08-2008, 03:27 PM
I think this reputation thing is nothing but cyber ego blowing across the keyboards. You can take those egos and a $1.00 and buy a cup of coffee. I don't like or drink coffee, either.

A "Real Professional Handicapper" could care less about his/her Cyber Personna. Most, if not all, prefer to remain quiet and noiseless. They are usually willing to help/instruct in a private one on one setting. But, usually they never look for Kudos, only winners and ways to profit at this game.

I know I am not a "Real Professional Handicapper". However after 40+ years at this game, I am qualified enough to know the difference between horse sh*t and shoe polish.

joeyspicks
04-08-2008, 03:47 PM
I think ALL handicappers who have something that works keep it to themselves or sell it for a fee. Frankly I have not learned anything new on this board.At least nothing I have yet to incorporate in my handicapping process. It would be great if all members here showed their hand,but that ain't going to happen and rightfully so.


Light; "I think ALL handicappers who have something that works keep it to themselves....................

but that ain't going to happen and rightfully so"

Light, by the the time you get to the point where "you have something that works"......that person has spent a LOT of TIME AND MONEY to get to that point. Its not something that is easily given away.....especially on a public forum like this. Today there are plenty of places to go for a general education on handicapping, however to make a consistent profit is mostly hard work, tenacity, and finding a way that fits for your particular style of play. Not to mention "self awareness" . Keeping records and studying them to discover weakness. Handicapping is just one piece of the recipe of success. Money management, discipline, and having a plan are the others.
Most "losing" players spend almost all their time and effort on the handicapping part.

Grits
04-08-2008, 04:13 PM
I think this reputation thing is nothing but cyber ego blowing across the keyboards. You can take those egos and a $1.00 and buy a cup of coffee. I don't like or drink coffee, either.

A "Real Professional Handicapper" could care less about his/her Cyber Personna. Most, if not all, prefer to remain quiet and noiseless. They are usually willing to help/instruct in a private one on one setting. But, usually they never look for Kudos, only winners and ways to profit at this game.

. . . . Bruddah, you're one insightful dude.

I believe you've described the more successful handicappers/horseplayers in the game. You won't find them in on an internet message board posting strategy or picks. Why would they? I don't think they have the desire, or the time. Unless it is, like you say, a one on one mentoring.

This thread calls back the days of standing in line on the playground at school.

If you were good at dodgeball, kickball, t-ball, or whatever; you were always one of the first kids chosen.

If you had no talent. If you were uncoordinated-falling over your own feet, pushing your glasses up on your nose all day, or you couldn't have caught a pop fly ball had you stood in the outfield 'til midnight, you were always chosen, LAST. And the other kids rolled their eyes, and hated it, realizing you were all that was left.

If there's any such person here, and you're at the top of several poster's lists, feel vindicated. Revenge is sweet. LOLOL You're now at the top of the game.

Everyone has something to offer, most of the time. Sooner or later.

headhawg
04-08-2008, 04:42 PM
. . . . Bruddah, you're one insightful dude.

I believe you've described the more successful handicappers/horseplayers in the game. You won't find them in on an internet message board posting strategy or picks. Why would they? I don't think they have the desire, or the time. Unless it is, like you say, a one on one mentoring...So all of the handicappers here suck?

chickenhead
04-08-2008, 04:49 PM
If there was a 4th grade kickball HOF, my right sneaker would be bronzed and in a display case, somewhere near the front door.

Grits
04-08-2008, 05:10 PM
If there was a 4th grade kickball HOF, my right sneaker would be bronzed and in a display case, somewhere near the front door.

........Chick, you'd have a good conversation piece, and an even better doorstop.

To the previous poster, I don't believe I said any handicapper here, as you call it, sucks. I wouldn't indicate such a thing, ever.

Indulto
04-08-2008, 06:10 PM
I hate reprinting entire posts ( yet another of my issues ) but I pretty much agree with the parts I left out. However.....I don't agree with what I reprinted. I'm not taking any of it seriously other than the suggestion that I keep my ideas " close to the vest. " I was just explaining why I thought Andicap's comment was unfair....that's all.

I take handicapping seriously.....and very little else.tlg,
I think your response to andicap was entirely appropriate as his "admiration" wasn't qualified for any others he mentioned in his original post.

As to the "close to the vest'' comment, it's true you will never be known as "The Great Elaborator," but it's clear that your economy of expression generates at least as much interest as your provocateur's expansive exuberance. Indeed, I would argue that you're the E. F. Hutton of this board -- when you post, everybody listens.

Please don't feel excluded by my earlier post regarding my impressions of who may be ahead of the game. You belong in a very exclusive category because your racing-related income isn't limited to the betting windows. Like your DRF buddies, your presence at the track enjoys a certain legitimacy and recognition that enables you to always walk away a winner.

BeatTheChalk
04-08-2008, 06:19 PM
If there was a 4th grade kickball HOF, my right sneaker would be bronzed and in a display case, somewhere near the front door.

There is a HOF and my right Sneaker is in that display case. They tell me I was a pretty darn good kicker ( High School Punt and kick ) College ..
Intramural star :jump:
I would go out to the football field and kick the ball through the uprights
for long periods of time. My beloved dog Sugar would chase. She finally
figured out that she could NOT really bring the ball back to me... So she just
watched and waited
Speaking of 4th grade .. I recall once kicking the ball down the right field line
and it struck the teacher ( One Miss Dritt ) They took me to the office and
told me not to do it again. :lol:

the little guy
04-08-2008, 06:53 PM
tlg,
I think your response to andicap was entirely appropriate as his "admiration" wasn't qualified for any others he mentioned in his original post.

As to the "close to the vest'' comment, it's true you will never be known as "The Great Elaborator," but it's clear that your economy of expression generates at least as much interest as your provocateur's expansive exuberance. Indeed, I would argue that you're the E. F. Hutton of this board -- when you post, everybody listens.

Please don't feel excluded by my earlier post regarding my impressions of who may be ahead of the game. You belong in a very exclusive category because your racing-related income isn't limited to the betting windows. Like your DRF buddies, your presence at the track enjoys a certain legitimacy and recognition that enables you to always walk away a winner.


I feel misunderstood. While everyone likes a compliment, I don't care if people include me or not in a thread like this. And surely since I don't post that often, and rarely discuss handicapping here, I can easily understand why I wouldn't be regarded one way or another. I'm sure there are many good handicappers on this board and I tend to agree with the posters that believe it is most likely that many terrific horseplayers are mere lurkers. Hell, one of the most universally acknowledged successful horseplayers in the world occasionally posts on this board and yet his name has never been mentioned in this thread. I happen to know that Slewis has a tremendous opinion and he too was never mentioned in this thread. Considering these two exclusions it might be the biggest honor of all to have been omitted from this thread.

Nevertheless, as always, I appreciate the kind words. I'm always happy to post what information I'm comfortable giving. Some situations are easier than others.

ArlJim78
04-08-2008, 07:48 PM
Hell, one of the most universally acknowledged successful horseplayers in the world occasionally posts on this board and yet his name has never been mentioned in this thread.
bellsbendboy?

cj
04-09-2008, 01:20 AM
bellsbendboy?

I laughed.

dav4463
04-09-2008, 01:30 AM
I think successful people are willing to share more than you realize. You just have to ask them. There are so many different ways to win that giving a way a few "secrets" isn't going to hurt you all that much. I've said before, it's an "ego" thing. Those that are successful are willing to share for the most part or there would be no handicapping books or forums or seminars.

Here is an analogy. If a rookie NBA player asks Tim Duncan for some advice, Tim would probably help him as much as he could even if he is on another team and not worry that his advice might cause him to lose a game to that rookie someday.

A rookie who asks Derek Jeter for some help with his swing during spring training will probably get help with his swing even if he plays for the Orioles instead of the Yankees.

Successful people help others in just about any endeavor including horserace handicapping. I know plenty of handicappers who have given me advice in exchange for nothing but thanks and that is awesome.

asH
04-09-2008, 02:31 AM
I think successful people are willing to share more than you realize. Successful people help others in just about any endeavor including horserace handicapping. I know plenty of handicappers who have given me advice in exchange for nothing but thanks and that is awesome.

what goes around....
sometimes the answers are right in front of our eyes, its unfortunate that we as beings, see only what we want.

Charlie D
04-09-2008, 03:42 AM
I think successful people are willing to share more than you realize.


On one UK forum, a well known professional gambler, a former Timeform editor, a odds compiler for one of the UK's biggest bookmakers and others like them share their thoughts on a regular basis


I have a feeling, like the above successful people posting on UK boards, there will be a few successful people posting and sharing their thoughts on US boards

Murph
04-09-2008, 05:01 AM
My favorite cappers posting here recently are the best public selectors I have had the pleasure to share in their work.

Mr Ron Rippey, NHC VII Champion, rrpic6 - I will never forget a quote he made after winning the NHC when asked about his income from horse racing activities and his public selection tasks he replied, "I've never recommended that anyone bet alot of money on horseracing." He went on to say he has been quite lucky to make his living from a sport he loved and credited his first championship to his wife and family for their lifelong support. Classy guy - top handicapper.

Cliff Smith pulled off a public feat rarely seen here in our handicapping community. He played a 100 race single selection run into profit and MET HIS GOAL for publicly handicapping this set of races. Pure handicapping - awsome talent and feel for his selections. Cliff is beginning his career as a public handicapper in competition with many seasoned professionals that I have shared with and learned from over the years. Mike Dempsy "Dumpster" (turfnsport), "Deuce" Bruce Andrews (anon) and several other well established outfits. I wish Cliff the very best.

Also worth mentioning are a couple of my competitors for regional spots in these darn NHC qualifiers we are drawn to. T J Taylor (Valupix) should be a force on the NHC tour for years to come and Eric Johnson (anon, I think he's lurking, if not posting here.) is settling into a life of professional handicapping with a quiet year in 2007 for a change. I don't care to see either name on the board when I sign up for a qualifier anywhere in the midwest.

Winners all. Murph

Tom
04-09-2008, 07:30 AM
bellsbendboy?

Dalmer?

Indulto
04-09-2008, 07:37 AM
Dalmer?As in Jeffrey? :eek:

Keep trying, Tom. ;)

the little guy
04-09-2008, 09:29 AM
A rookie who asks Derek Jeter for some help with his swing during spring training will probably get help with his swing even if he plays for the Orioles instead of the Yankees.



I actually recently heard that Jeter is unhelpful in spring training to rookies but ARod is very helpful.

Stevie Belmont
04-09-2008, 09:55 AM
I consider myself a sharp handicapper and evaluator of maiden winners and young horses. I often look for good young horses or something that seperates themselves from average horses. Either by looks or/and stride im able to evaluate if the horse has potential to be successful in the future. Im talking like a stakes winner. There abilty as a runner is the most important. Some are special, some are not. Its not often I see a real good, but when I do..I notice it. They stand out.

It's important to be at the track to see the horses however. Scope them out. You can see them on TV...You can still get a good idea, but being there is a big plus.

cj
04-09-2008, 10:29 AM
A rookie who asks Derek Jeter for some help with his swing during spring training will probably get help with his swing even if he plays for the first place Orioles instead of the struggling Yankees.


Fixed that for you.

Light
04-09-2008, 11:54 AM
It's one thing to ask for help privately in handicapping or in sports between 2 players. It's another to post such help,trick or secret on the internet for all to read. That's why you will find plenty of general help but rarely any effective detailed help on the web.

Robert Fischer
04-09-2008, 12:59 PM
Chess students, even GMs, want recreate or copy the moves of a game in order to learn. Maybe there is a KingPawn opening... how does black react? Sicilian? Does he trade the pawn? There is no shame in this, and it is actually common to see a master publicly study another player's game.
In horseplaying there is such an ego and such an individual mindset. Chess is considered more linear, and horseplaying even non-linear, but I believe most winning players use a routine, habit, or protocol, a general order of doing things that works for them.

With the subjective skill required for many types of horseplaying, the ego and confidence almost seems a necessity.
Anyone, even a skilled horseplayer who thinks opposite of you, and the natural instinct? is to affirm your opinion, and repeat the mantra "they don't know what the hell they are talking about". There is a certain amount of confidence required to stand by your opinion. If they win they were lucky, or too dull to notice the real "inner workings", or if they lose - you were exactly right.

The repulsion of opposing subjective opinion is so strong that even techniques and disciplines are rejected. You know who starts with the King's Pawn opening, but you don't hear a lot about so and so who is the master of a double key superfecta , or who is a wizard at dutching exotics... Technique isn't as accessable for the horseplaying student. It is so hard to find any peers in horseplaying, and when you do it is often hard to acknowledge them and set the ego aside, and even learn from them.

robert99
04-09-2008, 01:16 PM
I think ALL handicappers who have something that works keep it to themselves or sell it for a fee. Frankly I have not learned anything new on this board.At least nothing I have yet to incorporate in my handicapping process. For newbies,this board is great but not for the majority hard core vets.For me,this board is 99% entertainment or info on whats happening in the world of horseracing. It would be great if all members here showed their hand,but that ain't going to happen and rightfully so.

I understand that it might look that way but I am not aware of any of the hundreds of questions asked on PA that have not been answered with care and openness. It is very easy to think that you have not learned much because it is a very gradual thing - a slow process of absorption - something here, a bit there, but look back 10 years before the internet and try to remember what your approach and attitude might have been then. Ten years ago it was easy against people who just had a handful of myths to guide them - now they have software, databases, pace ratings, breeding data you name it - all information shared on PA. Possibly I may still be the most successful handicapper in UK racing but I still help anyone who asks because I was that guy long ago and the subject is still alive with me. Whether the so called secrets of the game can be summed up in a few sentences is another issue and to me you either have the temperament and determination or you don't - the knowledge is the easy bit to gain - applying it is not.

rrpic6
04-09-2008, 07:28 PM
My favorite cappers posting here recently are the best public selectors I have had the pleasure to share in their work.

Mr Ron Rippey, NHC VII Champion, rrpic6 - I will never forget a quote he made after winning the NHC when asked about his income from horse racing activities and his public selection tasks he replied, "I've never recommended that anyone bet alot of money on horseracing." He went on to say he has been quite lucky to make his living from a sport he loved and credited his first championship to his wife and family for their lifelong support. Classy guy - top handicapper.Murph

Murph:
This happens on occasion...Ron Rippey is mistaken for myself..rrpic6..we are two different guys. My best finish in a Tournament was way back in 2001 at the South Coast, around 13th place. Tournament play is really not my cup of tea, as I prefer exotic wagers to praying for all 20-1 shots to move me up the ladder. Nice to be mentioned in a positive light even tho it was a case of mistaken identity.

RR

maxwell
04-09-2008, 08:11 PM
Is everyone finished patting each other on the back? :D

Stevie Belmont
04-09-2008, 08:44 PM
Heck Ive thrown up a bunch of winners in my time here.

Before the race to.

Sometimes months before..

Cratos
04-09-2008, 11:26 PM
ASIDE from YOURSELF !! Guys (or ladies) who you think have the right combination of good analysis, good reasoning and knowing how to bet?

Just curious if this has been brought up in the past. If not, now it is.

And pardon me if you're one of those that think it's impossible question to answer. I fully realize that many posters don't know one another on the board. Yet, I'm sure some do.

Not in any particular order and not to overlook the many other fine contributors to this forum, but the three posters that I have found to have a solid knowledge of this game are: (1) The Little Guy - Abravsive, but extremely keen on the in and outs of this game, (2) Dan G - not only is he sharp, but he loves Joe Z's music and that puts him high on my list, and (3) Robert99 - I don't know it to be true, but he appears to have a Phil Bull-ian approach to the game and that is damn good.

banacek
04-09-2008, 11:47 PM
Dan G & Jeff P

Both have given posts that have helped my game immensely in terms of the psychological pitfalls that I am prone to. As far as handicapping, there are too many to list. This is an amazing board.

dav4463
04-10-2008, 12:10 AM
Fixed that for you.

Funny! ......sometimes I forget the Orioles still have a baseball team!

kid4rilla
04-10-2008, 10:37 AM
I've gotten tons from this board, although I'm still about breakeven and get it in windfalls, (like Beyer said all winners do).

But when someone comes up with something that works and continues to work for an extended period of time - they CANNOT share it. Especially NOT HERE.

If they shared it on track, most people wouldn't do it anyway. You'd have to ram it down their throats. Here, there are too many people with the tools and the know-how to automate it and take price away.

It's a good bet that even the very best of this forum still take less out of the windows than they put across. It's also a good bet that the very best of this forum are among the very best there are. If there are those who are consistently net winners, the method in which it happens COULDN'T be shared in a place like this.

jonnielu
04-10-2008, 11:34 AM
I've gotten tons from this board, although I'm still about breakeven and get it in windfalls, (like Beyer said all winners do).

But when someone comes up with something that works and continues to work for an extended period of time - they CANNOT share it. Especially NOT HERE.

If they shared it on track, most people wouldn't do it anyway. You'd have to ram it down their throats. Here, there are too many people with the tools and the know-how to automate it and take price away.

It's a good bet that even the very best of this forum still take less out of the windows than they put across. It's also a good bet that the very best of this forum are among the very best there are. If there are those who are consistently net winners, the method in which it happens COULDN'T be shared in a place like this.

A concise analysis.

System Response to Recall Today's Bets Request

View Pending Future WagersSerial # Track Race Wager Amount Bet Return Won/Lost
57849831749915 Keeneland # 1 $10 Win 2 $10.00 $126.00 +$116.00
14429515829196 Keeneland # 4 $20 Win 11 $20.00 $0.00 -$20.00
77713008439682 Keeneland # 6 $20 Win 7 $20.00 $0.00 -$20.00
97608851271381 Keeneland # 8 $20 Win 7 $20.00 $100.00 +$80.00
04787773699828 Keeneland # 9 $20 Win 8 $20.00 $284.00 +$264.00
61861870499335 Keeneland # 7 $20 Win 1 $20.00 $266.00 +$246.00
Totals: $110.00 $776.00 +$666.00
Pending Wagers: $0.00

Account Balance: $678.71

jdl

Murph
04-11-2008, 08:14 AM
Murph:
This happens on occasion...Ron Rippey is mistaken for myself..rrpic6..we are two different guys. My best finish in a Tournament was way back in 2001 at the South Coast, around 13th place. Tournament play is really not my cup of tea, as I prefer exotic wagers to praying for all 20-1 shots to move me up the ladder. Nice to be mentioned in a positive light even tho it was a case of mistaken identity.

RRNO Kidding ?! I am sorry to everyone here - that's a misconception I have held fast to since I began posting here in 2005. With that said, it's hard telling who I may think anyone is when I type into an internet forum. I wish I had made a more direct reference to you or a personal contact (what a concept) before making any assumptions based on what I am understanding when I read some posts. I know I can extend that apolopgy personally to many on this forum and I'll take this opportunity to do so.

I have mis represented some issues in public here that have involved situations for events involving people I have not met in person. This leads to misunderstandings based on assumptions I may or may not have made as being true in fact.

I've met Ron Rippey, NHC VII Champion, we spoke briefly after his interview with Noel Michaels when I congratulated him on his victory. I covered the interview from the reporters pool and posted a story on it somewhere. That's the reference for my quote attributed to Mr. Ron Rippey in the original post. Since checking his bio at the Bergen County Record in Jan 2005, I have not attempted to contact him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Record_%28Bergen_County%29

Now, for posting in here, I assume hijack hilstrom is the real person who is publicized by bris net last year as a featured handicapper and a future champion in waiting. A great story and HH deserves to be proud of his accomplishments, I salute him. We've never met, so I've made a few assumptions to proceed to post. If I'm wrong about anything, I can be that comfortably, like in this rrpic6 mis understanding. I will clarify any comments made and be sure we share the facts as they are clearly understood.

I can go back and reference the posts that led me to assume rrpi6 is the NHC VII champ but you guys can help me out on that one. RR, I assume you are a featured Brisnet handicapper that structures pik-6 tickets for the common pool bet that bris likes to lay. I call it the syndicate ticket, and I think it's very cool and a solid way to attack the pik6 on a smaller scale at a breeders cup or horse party for a blast while we watch the races and result trickle in.

My last intention is to invoke a quote in your name that YOU rrpic6 did not make. I have to correct that publicly and apologize for any misunderstandings. That's more than enough on the subject, thanks to everyone again for your part in making this a fun place to handicap and share our ideas!

Sincerely, Murph