BLAM Software Discussion

[gillb]

Hi:

Would like to discuss BM with owners in the Toronto area.

I live near St Catharines

Looking forward to contacts

Gillb

[andrew capp]

Hi, I live in Burlington, am going to order BLAM. how can we contact?

[Erudito]

I live in Mississauga, how do you plan to make this contact?

[cj]

What is BLAM? Seems fishy three guys with very few posts are suddenly curious about it. I've never heard it mentioned here before.

[shanta]

What is BLAM? Seems fishy three guys with very few posts are suddenly curious about it. I've never heard it mentioned here before.

2 of the guys have been members here for 4 years.Sure doesn't look like they are hawking or hustling anything Cj.

[sevenall]

What is BLAM? Seems fishy three guys with very few posts are suddenly curious about it. I've never heard it mentioned here before.

CJ-

"BLAM" is Pizzola's new program "Black Magic". I don't think Michael put that tag on it...but users have coined the term.

[ryesteve]

If the goal was to find other users, wouldn't it have made more sense to reach out on Pizzola's board rather than here?

[sevenall]

If the goal was to find other users, wouldn't it have made more sense to reach out on Pizzola's board rather than here?

Possibly...but I believe membership to the forum (which includes monthly coaching DVD's) has an additional charge. I'm not sure if all Black Magic users will become a member of that forum.

[ryesteve]

Possibly...but I believe membership to the forum (which includes monthly coaching DVD's) has an additional charge.
Wow... I guess talk ain't cheap after all :D

[njcurveball]

Possibly...but I believe membership to the forum (which includes monthly coaching DVD's) has an additional charge. I'm not sure if all Black Magic users will become a member of that forum.

I am not a User of this software, but this seems like a total lose/lose for all involved.

Usually the people who try to "save" money on this are the ones who need it the most. And by saving money, they do not use the program effectively and then start giving negative reviews to others who may have purchased it.

So instead of going "straight to the horses mouth", they come here to seek other users who do not go to the forum either.

Kind of like when I watch kids come into bowl and try to show each other how to do it when none of them have a clue. :bang:

And here I thought Pizzolla was a pretty smart business man. :faint:

[Pace Cap'n]

Heaven forbid that someone would think it would be alright to talk about software in the PA software form. Why even have one?

Not to mention one of the moderators has his own website, software, and forum.

[andrew capp]

A question for cb. Where did you get the information that people were trying to save money. Or that they don't as use any program effectively. Or that they were being negative about anything. You are the only one being negative. Maybe we're just three guys who live close together, and want to form a support group. Try being nice for a change, you'll feel much betterfor it.
The reason I don't post much on this forum is this: Post the most innocuos message and you get flamed. And talking to the "horse's mouth" sure beats talking to the horse's ass.
By the way, what is so objectionable about kids having a good time in a bowling alley?

[cj]

Heaven forbid that someone would think it would be alright to talk about software in the PA software form. Why even have one?

Not to mention one of the moderators has his own website, software, and forum.

It was a bit odd, that was all. I had never heard of BLAM. The poster wrote me and explained what he meant, and I get it. Nothing was deleted, modified, etc. If I shouldn't have been alerted by a thread on a program I had never heard of from posters with 1 and 5 posts, then I apologize.

As for my software, website, etc., I never mention them here and haven't for a few years that I remember, and I don't sell to new customers any longer either.

[headhawg]

Heaven forbid that someone would think it would be alright to talk about software in the PA software form. Why even have one?I think the point is that the responses would (should?) be better at the software-specific forum. I own CJ's program and if I had a question about it I wouldn't post the question here as it makes more sense to ask it in CJ's forum where everyone there actually uses the program. This is not a slam at PA; I enjoy my time here for the most part. It's just logical to me that the responses would be more helpful from that forum than some that I might get here (like "CJ's figs suck!" or "Pace is an outdated concept.")

[ryesteve]

I think the point is that the responses would (should?) be better at the software-specific forum. It's just logical to me that the responses would be more helpful from that forumI think the only people who would fail to see the logic in that, or would look at this thread and see "flaming", are those with a persecution complex or a guilty conscience.

[njcurveball]

By the way, what is so objectionable about kids having a good time in a bowling alley?

Sorry for the Metaphor. My point was that there are very good bowling instructors out there who give lessons. Lessons cost money though. So they would rather ask each other, since it is free.

I thought this was very similar to two guys coming here, instead of paying Pizzolla for his tapes or his forum.

For some it resonated, for others it missed the mark. You can have a darn good time bowling, even if you toss every ball in the gutter. Just like you have a darn good time at the track, even if you lose every bet.

Good luck to ya and hope you have a great time doing both! :ThmbUp:

[rokitman]

How many bowlers aren't on the cheap at any age? :D

[njcurveball]

How many bowlers aren't on the cheap at any age? :D

I know at least 2 guys who bowled in the US Open this week. They are both well over 50 and had no shot, but they put down their $500 to give it a go against the best bowlers in the world.

They also spend lots of money on new equipement (bowling balls can cost $200+ these days). AND they take lessons to improve, even thought their average "at home" is over 220.

Sorry I used bowling though as people here missed the point.

Can we switch this to Microsoft Excel? Two people buy new computers and want to learn Excel. Rather than pay to join a Users group where the instructor WROTE Excel, they choose to come to PA to find someone else who is just learning Excel.

How did I do there? Let the jokes and flaming begin! :jump:

[chickenhead]

BLAM would be a good name for a bowling ball.

[PaceAdvantage]

If the goal was to find other users, wouldn't it have made more sense to reach out on Pizzola's board rather than here?Hey, sure, discourage people from posting here why don't you....thanks a lot! :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Heaven forbid that someone would think it would be alright to talk about software in the PA software form. Why even have one?

Not to mention one of the moderators has his own website, software, and forum.You are free to talk about any and all software you wish. HTR is talked about all the time, and they have never been an advertiser here at PaceAdvantage. AllWays gets a bit of talk, and they don't advertise. Pizzolla's software gets discussed here from time to time, and again, he's never been an advertiser. Countless methods and programs have been discussed that have never been advertised on this site.

I hope this clears up some of the misconceptions you may have regarding advertisers and the discussion of commercially available software programs.

[Tom Barrister]

When I first saw this thread, I thought that Charlie Hunter's BLAM methodology had finally made its way into software form.

For those of you who aren't familiar with this, Hunter wrote a methodology back in the early 1990's which keyed on a horse who made a move during the second fraction, lost ground from that point to the stretch call, and then made another move from the 1/8 pole to the finish, a sort of "Z" pattern (thus the name: "Bid, Lost, Accelerated, Methodology). Hunter had certain criteria for what constituted a BLAM move, and he also had some qualifiers for horses who had a BLAM move, before they were playable. Some of it was subjective (thus a methodology instead of a system), but it could easily be quantified into something a computer program could handle. If I remember correctly, BLAM plays hit about 20% and had about a 1.05 ROI, this back in the early to mid 1990's . Today, of course, the ROI would probably be in the 0.90 to 0.95 range.

[njcurveball]

Countless methods and programs have been discussed that have never been advertised on this site.



Bowling, baseball, football, even the Apprentice have been discussed here as well. I have yet to see the PBA, the Yankees, the NY Giants, or Donald Trump pay for advertising. But it would be cool if they did. :ThmbUp:

[Wickel]

I'm still wondering about any early results from Black Magic. Any exit polls yet?

[shanta]

The WINNER of the just concluded tourney at the Orleans in Vegas used Black Magic and is one happy Canadian right now.

He posted his victory on the "Wizard Forum" set up for BM users and I thought I would pass it along.

Another user was 4th going into the final day,had a rough time but still cashed over $1,800.00

Richie

[pktruckdriver]

Nice post, and if all goes well I will make a post like that one here.

Now it might be 5-10 years from now, but I will, even I if make up my own contest, just kidding.

Lighten up freedom of speech is a good thing.

Patrick

[BarnieClockerbigal]

Got my invitation for BLAM in yesterday's mail.

$1197. Got some nice bells and whistles in it. :-)

BCBA

[andicap]

Forget about BLAM, where can I sue for stealing my user name? ;)

[ryesteve]

Forget about BLAM, where can I sue for stealing my user name? ;)


This guy is wondering the same thing :D
http://www.strategicmarketingmontreal.ca/images/andycapp.gif

[Wickel]

Forgive me, Blamsters, but I still can't fathom dishing out $1,200 for software and more dough to access a forum. And I won't.

[Buell]

Hey Wickel. I just gotta say something to you I read your posts, and all you got to say is that you dont want to buy this deal. Ok, you don't want to buy the black magic or whatever software. Great. whats youre point?

The ones that bought it must be happy, or they get the money back.

A guy used it to win almost a hundred grand at the contest in Las Vegas this month. Think its worth 1,200 to him?

Think the guy who hit a 21,000 super high five is complaining?

Its worth it to them and not to you.

No, you ask for replys on how its doing and then when youre told its doing well you dont want to hear it. You never seen the program but you know it aint worth it. Maybe youre psychic. If so, you dont need no software anyhow.

Get off it. There are plenty of good programs from folks who advertise on this board. why not get one of them and use it?

[Wickel]

Buell, I can post on here that I hit 10 super high fives using the Master Magician or All in One or Ray Taulbot's calculator. Or that I won this contest or that contest. What I'm saying is that it's all hype. Someone suggested in another thread that one of the Black Magic users post their picks in this forum--beforehand. Let's put these guys to the acid test. And guess what--I believe they might succeed. The proof's in the pudding, as they say. By the way, like I've posted before, I'm a fan of MP. I have many of his earlier software products. My point is, that no matter what you purchase, there's always an upgrade down the line for major bucks. And I understand technology--there are going to be upgrades--but to do it at these price levels is a crying shame. I'm sticking with TMM. No Black Magic for me. POOF!!!

[sevenall]

Buell, I can post on here that I hit 10 super high fives using the Master Magician or All in One or Ray Taulbot's calculator. Or that I won this contest or that contest. What I'm saying is that it's all hype. Someone suggested in another thread that one of the Black Magic users post their picks in this forum--beforehand. Let's put these guys to the acid test. And guess what--I believe they might succeed. The proof's in the pudding, as they say. By the way, like I've posted before, I'm a fan of MP. I have many of his earlier software products. My point is, that no matter what you purchase, there's always an upgrade down the line for major bucks. And I understand technology--there are going to be upgrades--but to do it at these price levels is a crying shame. I'm sticking with TMM. No Black Magic for me. POOF!!!

Wickel-

We get it (seriously)...you're not going to buy Black Magic....but feel free to remind us again.

[Wickel]

OK. Case closed.

[Gibbon]

A guy used it to win almost a hundred grand at the contest in Las Vegas this month. One isolated handicapper using any one tool says nothing about that tool. This player you site was undoubtedly a proficient handicapper before BM. I suspect for a myriad of reasons, BM suits his style.

I could point out millions are bet every day using “sheet” data. But so what? Says nothing about sheets ability to predict winners.

If your handicapper is in fact a real winner NOT some a one hit {lucky} wonder he would not play publicly. How do I know? You've probable never had to deal with the tax consequences of gambling. I have never used ADWs, never will. Play cash, get paid in cash. We may be experiencing a mild economic downturn but the so called underground economy is healthy. Very often the difference between winning real money and merely breaking even are TAXES!

think its worth 1,200 to him? This is your first post so as not to label you an undercover advertiser for BM why don't you express some positive attributes this new app offers. What is the software worth to you?

Allow be to relate a personal story. I'm an allways user. Never used the app to forecast races. I spend several thousands a year on one aspect of allways -- to construct pars. Nothing more. Yes I know, commercial pars are available but for my purposes they're insufficient. I need my pars on the fly.

In racing, customer services in an after thought. Ron Tiller of RS_POS or any sheet purveyor does not believe in pars so no pars are offered. Who cares what the customer wants.

So again I query, not some anecdotal story you have heard, what is it worth to you personally?

[Buell]

Hey, Gibbon, slow down. I was just commenting on wicks negative attitude without a bases, and he gave a good response.

I didnt say a thign that these fellows did it because of the software but I was there at the orleans contest and saw maybe 4 or 5 guys with the software, and one of the guys I was talking to who was using it won the contest. One of the other guys told me that another guy using the program hit that high 5 and they told me that he used to write on this board until he got so much negative stuff because he liked the program. I started reading the posts.

Im not advertising for noone or nothing. I got no dog in this hunt. Dont care much for software myself pick the horses my own way. And even though I may be a country boy, I know a thing or two about taxes and gambling.

Im glad that you use your software and use it to do what you like with pars. Good for you for specialising in that. All I was saying was that I was trying to read some intelligent stuff about the software I saw and all I saw was a bunch of fellows who never even seen the thing bashing it. My thing wasnt an anetcdote, I seen it with my own eyes at the orelans hotel.

[Gibbon]

Fair enough. Welcome to the board. :jump:

I am however, terribly curious. What made you post at this time? Surely you've seen or heard of other programs. If you've been to one tournament, I should think you have witnessed others.
Why post now?







__________________________________
One should always play fair when one has the winning cards. ~ Oscar Wilde

[Gibbon]

http://www.orleanscasino.com/gaming/race-and-sports-book/ken-hopkins
Ken Hopkins 2008 Horseplayer World Series Champion-->

I think Ken is best described as an old fashion, no frills handicapper- a meat and potato guy. He arms himself with a racing form ... After 35 years of playing the horses, I’m finally out of the red in the black! What I initially suspected. NOT a pro. Every dog has his day. After 35 years, bravo Ken and congratulations. To what degree the software played in making your day we'll never know.


















Cynic alert: Knowing Pizzola's aggressive marketing campain and the fact he lives in Vegas, I would bet he gave free copies to several contestants.

[kingfin66]

Gibbon,

While I believe your assessment that the contest winner is not a pro is correct, you managed to link to an article about the wrong contest.

This is the link to the contest that Buell was referring to:

http://www.orleanscasino.com/gaming/race-and-sports-book/handicapping-tournaments

There, now you can go on a new riff, but at least you will have the right contest info to do it with.

[shanta]

Cynic alert: Knowing Pizzola's aggressive marketing campain and the fact he lives in Vegas, I would bet he gave free copies to several contestants.

Pretty good representation of a software "tool" out less than a month than to go to such a prestigious tourney and have not only the WINNER (90k) but also 2 additional gentlemen placing high and taking home day cash as "users".

Cynic alert and all :jump:

[Gibbon]

Kingfin66 and Shanta, You're taking things personal.

Many poster are cynical due to a complete lack of objectivity by those who freely promote BM.
If one asks about HTR - Donnie, Tom, Jersey, etc... explain in clear and concise language their personal experience. If one asks Dave Schwartz about his baby (http://www.horsestreet.com/index.html), Dave provide a lucid answer directed to the question posed, NO sales pitch.

Ask about BM and what you got -- you get a copy of Pizzola's sales brochure or some third party account boldly declaring everyone wins.

Reading many BM reviews I would conclude a teenage girl was writing....
But I love it.
It's soooo shiny, it's new, watch it sparkle.
It's so cool.

Stop it! No more sales brochure. I described precisely how I use allways {not to handicap}

So enlighten us with your personal experience using BM.
1} Why do you love it?
2} What is new?
3} What feature can you NOT live without?
4} What one or two features has shed new insight into your play?
5} After decades of horseplay, why this particular software/methodology?

Rudimentary questions any horseplayer should be able to answer. In other words, how has it help you NOT some third party story. If BM is a winner one would think posts on BM's board would reflect this hot topic. But no, the board is dead. The cynicism would stop if someone can answer a few simple questions.

[JimG]

If BM is a winner one would think posts on BM's board would reflect this hot topic. But no, the board is dead.

Hi Gibbon,

I do not use or own Black Magic but the board is far from dead, at least judging by the number of people on it. Like you, I cannot see any posts because it is a closed board available to only buyers of the software.

[Gibbon]

Jim,

Thanks for your honest opinion. That is why most everyone respects you here.
The private board is here (http://www.handicappingwizards.com/viewforum.php?f=3). I see a number of total views but no replies.

[JimG]

Hi Gibbon,

That is only the public portion of the board. As I understand it, the rest of that board is hidden and viewable only after you sign on and only to members who pay a monthly fee to post there. Thanks for the compliment.

I am sure somebody else who posts there can clear it up.

Jim

[sevenall]

Kingfin66 and Shanta, You're taking things personal.

Many poster are cynical due to a complete lack of objectivity by those who freely promote BM.
If one asks about HTR - Donnie, Tom, Jersey, etc... explain in clear and concise language their personal experience. If one asks Dave Schwartz about his baby (http://www.horsestreet.com/index.html), Dave provide a lucid answer directed to the question posed, NO sales pitch.

Ask about BM and what you got -- you get a copy of Pizzola's sales brochure or some third party account boldly declaring everyone wins.

Reading many BM reviews I would conclude a teenage girl was writing....
But I love it.
It's soooo shiny, it's new, watch it sparkle.
It's so cool.

Stop it! No more sales brochure. I described precisely how I use allways {not to handicap}

So enlighten us with your personal experience using BM.
1} Why do you love it?
2} What is new?
3} What feature can you NOT live without?
4} What one or two features has shed new insight into your play?
5} After decades of horseplay, why this particular software/methodology?

Rudimentary questions any horseplayer should be able to answer. In other words, how has it help you NOT some third party story. If BM is a winner one would think posts on BM's board would reflect this hot topic. But no, the board is dead. The cynicism would stop if someone can answer a few simple questions.

JimG is correct. You have to be a member to see the actual board.

To answer Gibbon's questions:

(1) I've been using Pizzola's software since the old "The Master Handicapping" days. "BLAM" now makes it much easier to zero in on the races that I want to consider betting. One of the challenges for any handicapper that plays multiple tracks is using your time to find good bets efficiently.

(2) There are several new features to this software (compared to it's predecessor "The Master Magician". A few of them include the ability to download every track each day; "portfolio's" of different angles and types of races and horse you might be looking for (example: Turf routes only); Advance Form patterns that are noted for you; notations for layoffs (1SL, 2SL, 3SL); "Reverser Protocol" which shows you very quickly horses that come out of the same race; new Master Pace ratings and other features.

(3) Couldn't live without the odds line. It's very good and allows me to quickly decide if I'm interested in digging deeper into the race.

(4) The ability to quickly see whether there are Advance Form Patterns in the race as well as the Reverser Protocol. You had to do this by looking at the PP's of a race when using TMM...and that took much too long. Now, you can see them in a glance.

(5) I've used Pizzola's software for over 10 years. To be honest, I don't think the software has made me the handicapper I am today...but Michael's discussions and lectures on handicapping did. He catches a lot of hell on boards like this for his marketing...but if anyone actually has listened to his tapes or watched his videos they have become better handicappers.

[Gibbon]

Nearly 100 or thereabouts posts on BM and a infrequent poster, sevenall, describes his {his: gender neutral} personal experience over a span of a decade. Sensible, to the point, no verbal diatribe. If I may summarize what your saying; MP is a reasonably good teacher and you have gained knowledge through his instruction.

Although I am not a Sartinista, I must admit the scion of pace {Huey Maul being the father} has given rise to an entire generation of modern thought. MP, Hambleton, Schmidt ... who else am I forgetting ... Ah yes, some dude named Brohamer. Me thinks he wrote a book or somtin. :cool:

Recognizing Sartin's vital contribution by virtually imprinted his mark on most all of todays' applications is humbling. If only other BM fans can express their experience as cleanly as sevenall....









__________________________________________
"Programming is 10% science, 25% ingenuity and 65% getting the ingenuity to work with the science."

[lsosa54]

I really appreciate this kind of post here. Very informative, no agenda, no bullshit, no vitriol. I have no problem with Michael P. as I have learned from his work with the Doc and after he left. BM is out of my price range for a software program but it seems to have some excellent features to make life easier for multitrack handicappers.

I'm not a big fan of hyped marketing for any product but I would think this market is limited and vendors do have to sell their product. Cynthia Publishing completely turned me off with their marketing approach in the 90's but that doesn't mean their stuff was terrible or that I didn't learn from the Dick Mitchell seminar's I attended. Maybe their marketing brought in more customers that wouldn't have been familiar with their products.


JimG is correct. You have to be a member to see the actual board.

To answer Gibbon's questions:

(1) I've been using Pizzola's software since the old "The Master Handicapping" days. "BLAM" now makes it much easier to zero in on the races that I want to consider betting. One of the challenges for any handicapper that plays multiple tracks is using your time to find good bets efficiently.

(2) There are several new features to this software (compared to it's predecessor "The Master Magician". A few of them include the ability to download every track each day; "portfolio's" of different angles and types of races and horse you might be looking for (example: Turf routes only); Advance Form patterns that are noted for you; notations for layoffs (1SL, 2SL, 3SL); "Reverser Protocol" which shows you very quickly horses that come out of the same race; new Master Pace ratings and other features.

(3) Couldn't live without the odds line. It's very good and allows me to quickly decide if I'm interested in digging deeper into the race.

(4) The ability to quickly see whether there are Advance Form Patterns in the race as well as the Reverser Protocol. You had to do this by looking at the PP's of a race when using TMM...and that took much too long. Now, you can see them in a glance.

(5) I've used Pizzola's software for over 10 years. To be honest, I don't think the software has made me the handicapper I am today...but Michael's discussions and lectures on handicapping did. He catches a lot of hell on boards like this for his marketing...but if anyone actually has listened to his tapes or watched his videos they have become better handicappers.